The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

12. Navigating a Career from a Unicorn to a Public Company W/ Jaimie Buss

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Talking about startup careers and transitions is this week's guest on the Sales Hacker podcast—Jaimie Buss, VP of Sales, North America for Zendesk. 

One two one: Three: Three Fo hi, everybody welcome to the saleshacker podcast. This episode were going to be interviewing, Jane Buss, TPFsales, North America, for Zendesk, but before we do that, we've got anexciting new sponsor and we wanted to talk a little bit about it. Thecompany's called Air Call and we want to tank them. They empower sales andsupport teams to ace every call with this phone system specifically builtfor their favorite business tools with teir call. You can now make everyconversation count now. If you don't know what that means, what I wouldencourage you to do is go to their homepage, which is air called TAT. IoTake Alook and there's a video that walks through some of the technologythat they use. It looks like initially for support teams, and I know thereason that they're advertising with us is because they've got a sales modulecoming out very very soon, so take a look at air call. They've been growingincredibly quickly and I think everybody that's. A customer is very,very happy now as out for the Redu. Let's get on with the show thanks hi everybody and welcome to the saleshacker podcast. It's your friendly neighborhood host Sam Jacobs. I've gota very special interview today, we're going to be talking to Jamie bus. Jamieis currently the Vpssales North America for Sen desk. But let me give you herquick bio she's, a veteran sales leader she's got experience, sellingeverything from sast to virtualization, storage and networking. As I mentioned,she's running sales, North America FROSENTESK. She leads a team of overtwo hundred people, including field sales, hibe Daes, SMB and salesdevelopment, raps strs. During her eighteen year, sales career she's heldsales and leadership positions at Andres, an Hororwitz Vmwere, coverity,Marici, coraid and intomy. So welcome Jamie to the sales hacker podcast.Thank you sound excited to be here. We are excited to have you so as we do. Westart with your baseball card. As we mentioned offline there's a tiny bit ofdiscretion that we have to employ because s Zandes is a public company,but very quickly. Your name is Jimmy. Buss. Give us your title once more sure:AVPF sales on North America and you're at Sun Desk for those that are in theStone Age. What is then desk? What do they do? What do you guys do and sortof rough revenue range which we could also find by using Yahoo, a googlefinance or something yeah, no problem, so we are public company O R, ourlatest ourney state call. We stated five hundred million and annual runright, so pretty big benchmark for us. We're really excited about that. We area support and ticketing platform. premiarily used, BTCB TO B internal usecases, anyone that needs to interact with a customer and be able to tractthose interactions. So our company is not at about twohousand peopleworldwide and then we've got about two hundred sales people in North AmericaOrganization, specifically wow. Well, that's impressive and so you've been instartup land. How long technically, I would say, probably since two thusand,so I joined into me back at that point- and the Alloro of Silicon Valley kindof drew me in and my career kind of, took off from there. So, probably justabout eighteen years: WOW, okay! Well, that's a healthy amount of time. Let'sgo back to the beginning, so tell us where you're from you know: where'd yougrow up, and essentially how did you end up at Zendesk running North Americafor a five hundred million dollar business walk us through a little bitof that progression for the younger people out there that want to imealate.You sure, well, iwill say that at first I definitely did not see myself landingin sales. I landed in the right spot, but I didn't get here straight out ofthe gate so actually from southern California natively. I grew up inVentura County and went to calpoly Sanlos PIPO for for Undergrad, where Igot an evironmenal engineering degree, which completely has nothing to do withwhat I do now. What droke that? Were you an interest in the environment? Isuppose yeah. There was definitely Nol of em that I really liked understandinghow things worked and what could negatively affect the environment, butmy mom actually thought I was crazy because I wasn't particularly strong inmath in high school and she's. Like are...

...you sure you want to do engineeringthere's a heck of a lot of math and I'm like yeah I' got to do something hardlike I was really competitive, so I'm like well, I'm not going to take likeyou know something that I perceive is being something really challenging, soI definitely got what I asked for copobably was phenomenal school. ICouldn' have CEN heve selected better for myself at post school. I went intoconsulting so I worked for deloit for about a year. I probably would havestayed longer had silicon valley at that point it hadn't quite inploded.Yet right it still was so exciting and companies that made absolutely no money.You could go work and get all this tock. That would be worth something someday.Think we all kind of had the wool pulled over our eyes. At that point, inleast I did. I was twenty three coll me a little slack, there's nothing wrongwith thing optimistic. We value ISM in ourt trade, exactly so with stars. Inmy eyes, I moved to Solican Valley and that's where I started working at intome and got his sales enjering position there, which wasn't. You know it wasquoted, but, as you know, it's not the same as having the carrying the bagyourself. So I did a lot of the demos, the technical work. What did he intemydo? They were searched, so they did like internal starch, like I think mostpeople probably use Google or some other application. Now at this pointautonomy, I think you sould do that, but basically like, if you had aninternet, you would need to search your content and back. Then companies didn'treally have a good way of doing that. So we would crawl your content, helpyou create indexes and menuse all that kind of stuff, so that internal contentwould become more accessible and so you're a deloyt. You know- and I youknow- were the same generation. I remember the job market back then itwas insane so you're in this fairly stable, consulting world sales.Engineer isn't often the path that people from consulting choose to takeoffen times. They need to sort of insert themselves in strategy. How didyou think about making that decision? So when I first joined into me for sixmonths, I was brought in under the IT organization to help bridge gap betweensales and it on the applications that sales needed. So that was the six monthtenure, at which point I presented my first application to the head of salesengineering, freeing to me- and he said you should be in sales like what areyou doing this happen es to happen, a lot to sales leaders, we find ourselvesin one job and then just the gravity of sales draws us in yeah, and I hadtreally thought about it before that, and I think I'm like you know that thatcould be interesting. So I took the leap and did that and then I did thatvery well, but when I really loved about that job was not answering thetechnical questions and creating the demos I really loved winning, I lovedbeing part of the team that won the largest deal for the quarter. And howcould we strategies to win it and that's you know into me. I was thereabout two and a half years. Just I have three years I think, and by the end ofthat point, we'd had round and round of layoff, which I'm sure you also livethrough the two thousand and two period where that Stilicon Valley bubblepopped Batd, we all kind of got dropped out of the Bondo of that, and you knowI found myself laid off at whatever. I was twenty four twenty five years old,something like that which as shocking right, because to your point I had thisnice stable job at deloyt. My parents thought I was crazy to go, joinsillican value. Just don't do that right. You don't leave a good job for arisk and I told them like no Gona find something. Don't worry but the goodthing was. I really built a phenomenal network iting to me I mean I'm still incontact and hive gotten several jobs out of the folks that I met back then,and a lot of that crew had moved over to the mwhere and I'll be honest. Ididn't even realize how great of a product vionwer was at the time all. Iknew, as I had great connections there and I wanted to carry a bag. I did notwant to be a sals engineer that for someone to take a risk on me, havingnever seen me carry back before, I was going to have to go somewhere wherepeople knew me. So I tried getting s e some positions where Ta people mighttake a chance of me that didn't know me, but I really pursued vm more hard and Ihad to get on the phone first with Caugt, with with the Hir mangersbrancocks. The time talk to him, he said talk to Carl. I convincedCarlashian Bock I was I want really wanted to do it take a chance on me.They brought me into interview and I had to sit down at that point. There 'sonly ten sales people on the VMMOR sales team. I literally had tointerview Wi dying, green being as...

...young as I was. It convinced her that Icould be a great sales rap for her team. So I still remember that day. Clearly,I know exactly where that office was, fortunately must have done well enoughto get the job. So I made that transition from mink to me, postbeinglaid off landed as an an count executive at intomy at Vm, wherecovering the northeast. So I was an inside sales, reb coving, the northeastlowis performing territory out of all of them, so nothing like a challengeordropping in as a wrap and being at the bottom. I was the training and theonboarding. At that point, I will tell you exactly what the training was. Thetraining was. Here's, your computer, here's your phone! It's ringing! Youbetter fucking, pick it up El. As long as the phones ringing I mean that's,that's the benefit that many of us don't have. That is very true and VM.More was a very unique situation. I don't think I've not had that scenario.Since I may never again. You know we were in a very, very unique position.It was a product that worked very well. It was brand new to the market, we hadno competitors and it made a ton of sense because you can consolidatetwenty servers onder one so even for testof environment it was not. It was aphenomenal product. We were. I was really really lucky to you, know, toget that position and then because the company grew so fast, probably aboutevery eighteen months, I was able to kind of get a promotion, so I movedfrom, you know, ae to inside sales manager. I managed a bunch of teams forabout eighteen months or so maybe a little longer. Then from there I becamedirector of Alve inside sales for North America and Laham. I did nothave worldwide, but that still was a pretty sizable organization and I didthat for a couple years opened up the Austin office from scratch. Tid, youmove the OSOM. I did not. I considered it at the time what I did at the Times.I spent fifty percent there time there fifty percent time here in Palloaldo,my husband and I considered it, but he w uld. He had a great job in theInsilican Valley and it was. It was a tough choice, but we decided to stay inthe BANEA. Also one quick question: There's a lot to unpack here. So thefirst thing, the hat, your mid Twtis, you just got laid off, but some one ofthe things you just said was you know I needed to go somewhere w an. I had alot of connections. It feels to me that you, I don't know if it was intuitionor you developed. You know this insight specifically and intentionally, but youseem to understand the power of networking pretty early on. Did thatjust come to you or did some mentor sort of articulate, Hey, you need tobuild a network. You need to have relationships across the valley so thatif this thing doesn't work, you've got plenty of options. That's a very goodquestion. I had two very important. You know, folks, who helped me out thatthat job, actually even not deloit, might you din' really have a boss there,but you had somebody who would kind of report back on your work and even thatearly on what they really do well at the agent that those consulting firmsis they teach you how to be a professional and they instill in Kyouthat you are a brand and you've got to think about. What is that brand thatyou want to be, and then the network that you build is how you're going tocapitalize on that brand, because a lot of that consulting world is aboutnetworking and that was reinstilled for me, atding to me, I had two greatmentors there as well. I'm steamingly in the Dan Bowhouse, both of them, Ithink, gave me really good foundational advice. You know I really build mybrand around executing. I want to do a good job. I want to deliver. What'sabove and beyond, what's expected of me we're talting a little bit earlierabout responsetime on emails? I really strive to Tbe same day as long as it'ssent to me with. In you know reasonable hours during that day, I like to getshiped on like. If you give me something you do not have to worry thatit's not going to happen. It's always going to happen, and so a lot of thesethings. I was already kind of thinking about at a really early age and becauseI was delivering good work and building that brand, but in an authentic way Iestablished all those connections. So people had some good perception of meand were willing to take that chance on me into another role. I think. Well,there you go, there's a really powerful benefit of consulting, because I thinka lot of young people don't quite...

...realize what you just said, which isthat you are your brand and you have to build it. So you got to vm where- andit sounds like you mentioned every eighteen months or so you happen to you-jumped on a Unicorn and the company's growing incredibly quickly and you'removing from individual contributor to manager. What was that transition like,and I think one of the questions that I actually got from a buddy of mine, thatthat used to work for me, Michael Serui, and said you know on the podcast? Canyou guys talk about making the jump from individual contributor to manager?What was that like for you, yeah and Yonow? I have to this is actually oneof the topics that which I know were jumping way ahead, but I was sopassionate about this topic that I actually built a program for today,Sixteenz, where we'd bring in the portfolio companyes individuals, theirraps, that wantd to be managers or early managers, actually kind of liketaught a course on the transition between being an IC, an then kind ofmanagement one on one, because I really feel like this is a huge gap n incorporate America, whether you're at I don't e. maybe the big companies haveit a bit better. I have typically been at startups where you're, just reallyyou get to be top of your trade and then you're, moved on to management andyou're just expected to make everyone else be excellent. The way you are andyou're not taught that it's a completely different job that operatesin the gray area every single day that part of your job is being a counselor.That part of your job is gemaking. It answering questions that really don'thave a rigter wrong answer, so it's like how do you become the manager thatpeople want to follow and want to work hard for? How do you become that typeof manager? So a lot of the things that I kind of had to teach myself, becauseI made a lot of mistakes. I think th. The hardest transition for me was IC tomanager and was because of those reasons I would have the same sort ofstandards for my best drap, as I would for my ways, Hollois performing rap,which absolutely makes no sense in retrospect, but I didn't know I waslike well. I guess I need to set fair right, treat everyone quote unquotefairly, and so everyone should have the same expectation. That's not exactlytrue right! So there's a lot of like little nuance things and my one ND onesI treated everyone on one was like a grilling forecast call. Well. Where wasmy wrath ever going to get feedback? Where were they ever going to hear whatthey're doing well? Where were they ever going to have an opportunity todevelop their own career and make sure that I understood what motivates them,and how am I coaching them to get there all those components? No one everreally taught me. So what I had to do is I kind of sougt out so want o I'llthrow out one of my favorite books. It's an old e, but of Goodi people makefun of me, because this is an older book, but First Break All the rules O.I was going to mention that it is my by far I've read a million of them. Thisone is by far my favorite, because it's so practical and what you can do isthey've got these or twelve questions that you can ask yourself. How Am myreps answer? These questions? Have I received feedback in the last week? DoI feel valued in my job all those types of things right? It's an incrediblebook in the very first question they ask, and there is do I know, what'sexpected of me, yeah exactly and sometimes and that's actually, I laythat out in the training is like. Sometimes you have to be reallyexplicit, especially when the people are younger in their career. You haveto remember not. Everyone went to a consulting Jab rigd out of e collegeand was taught how to be a professional we've had to have conversations withreps on, what's appropriate and not appropriate on what to wear a work. Onmy I mean, that's always been a thing to talk about. I'm onways scared totalk about it. As an older man, I try to delegate a R yeah yeah. There havedefinitely been instances where, and I have a lot of female leadership on myteam where sometimes if it is a female, that's in question that one of us willtake that conversation instead, because it is a bit uncomfortable for some ofthe man. If it's the opposite gender conversation but yeah I mean you besurprised, you have to lay out sometimes when they're expected to beat work or what the expectations are around chickoff. Do you know I'veliterally I've had so many challenges with people. You know you have theparty at a kick off the the night of and the next morning you Gat Qbrs, andthen you always have one or two raps that have completely missed the QBR andour drunk in ther rooms or whatever, and I layid out every single timebeforehand. s like it's still a work event. This is not your Bachelor Partyfor you're expected to post in the...

...morning. Let me be clear, so sometimesyou you have to be more clear than you even think you need to be. How did itgo? I mean so you know you'R, maybe a younger manager and now you're anexperience manager as you're, making this progression through Vm. Where wasyour intuition pretty unerring or did the growth of business kind of masksome of the growing pains until you were ready to sort of step into? Youknow the more senior roles? I think I did learn a lot, even though you knowVammar was doing well, but I had large size teams. I mean, even when I was afieldman, so last role I had there, I managed a field team, but it was ofnine people from Washington DC downas. You know through southern California,so my teans were never small. I could have had fifteen inside sales, rapsreporting to me nine field. Draps I mean that's, arguably, a little bitspread too thin, but you know I kind of learned from you know: interactionswith the raps and sometimes they would be early on. They would provide mefeedback of like hey, you know, I'm. How do I manage my career here and thenI started to take a step back and like I need to educate y myself better on onhow to do this job, and that's when I started doing a lot of research ghat'swhen I read first brick, all the rules and a million other leadership booksactually still subscribe to Hbr, because sometimes they have some reallygood research articles done out of Google and some other places that havehave done a lot of benchmarking and surveys on what does it take to be agood manager or a good leader? So I just consumed as much material as Icould and kind of built that you know kind of leadership profile over time.Wow I mean, I think, that's against. Maybe it's your own intuition, or maybeit's instinct, but you know your instinct to go outside of the confinesof the job itself and make sure that you're, educating yourself is obviouslya best practice. So vm ore was a wild ride. I'm curious: How did you end upat injrisen and obviously that's you know one of the the better knowninvestors in the world at this point, and would you do for Andreson and thenHon Jendo Pitzendes? All those are exellent questions so in between VM MARand Andrewson Howas, I did work at three different startups, which wasactually gave me really really great experience in preparation for interestsin horoits. Would you learn from those startups after being a DM wore? Okay,do you know those people who join your company and they go well at Vion, wherewe did this at Vion, where we did that, so that was me, probably my first jobout of amwhere, and now I look back now. People like well when I was at salesforse, I did Thas snow en I was at Sills forsid. Did that n? I just kindof roll my eyes, like yolar you'll, COMPA company couple companies lateryou'll learn. The biggest thing I learned was that you cannot make anassumption on the right GTM model based on. What's worked for you in the past.I think that was my biggest most naive mistake. I'd like to just blame myself,but I see other people do it even at you know, various companies I've beenat is making that assumption of well, just because I did verticalization atthis other company at this time. It's the right time to do it for this one,not necessarily by a long shot. I think you go have to. You cannot try to dounnatural acts to get a product to market either it's going to be high,volocity bottoms up, people can try it, they can buy it easily and it canskille down or prize or it a top down. UNTERPRICE sale got to be sold. WalltoWall Sea levels involved, you're not going to get the enterprise you levelyou're, not going to B able to sell inside Salles. The NTLLS is not goingto work. For that I mean you can want it, because it's cheaper and a lot ofpeople do, but it's just not going to work and sometimes from the bottoms ofcompany like it. Just not might you know, mid market might be where thatneeds to be, and maybe you don't need field sales. Maybe inside sales is whatyou need. So I think what I learned was. I really had to study the naturalmotion for that product. How easy was it to try? How quick was that trial wasthat trial free? Was it a freemium model t? was there no trial at all?What was the ASP? What is the sales cycle, and once I kind of learned, likekind of put these staffs together, then I could start to pattern match allright. This is what Youdo you need: Field Sales and SRS. I don't know whyyou're messing with the inside sales and that's what I think I brought whenI went to Intriston Harroits Andi ill talk through my role there, but thelessons I learned post Vm, where I think actually made me tremendouslymore valuable at the AG. Sixteen evol...

...it makes so much sense, and certainlyit's the perils of success to early in your career. When you all of a suddenassume that the reason VM WER got to wor. For My, in my case was GirsonLemer Group, it is the same thing. It went to Throgh inded million andrevenue everything we tried worked and, of course, he's come out of there.thinking you're a genius and that's not quite od. No, I know like well, ofcourse it's because of what I did Aysi' linkon. I tell everyoice sexactly onequestion: I have. I really really strongly agree with you that you kindof the market will tell you in many ways what how it wants to be sold andyou know how it wants to digest the product. I guess the question is: Ifyou're pitching yourself as a VPF sales out there and you're saying I've doneit all I've seen it all. How much time do you give yourself to just sit andlisten and figure it out before you feel that pressure of saying, okay nowit's time for me to get off my ass and make sure that we have a plan that I'mleading the troops up the hill of yeah? Well, be you e N, once Ye I get in thecompany, you mean yeah, exactly yeah, so I mean I think I don't usually sitback. What I do is first, I keep the trains running on time for what's thererunning, because I'm not going to come in and make grand sweeping changes onday one first of all, I don't know enough yet to do that. So I tried tofigure out okay from the team. What are some low hanging issues that I can helpblock and tackle for them to gain their trust early right? So can I what's aneasy lixs? What some wins I can get for the team? What are some things thatI've really been painful for them, but I can knock down while I'm learning alittle bit more about the business and where my coverage is. Where is mycoverage lacking? Do I have troops and all the right locations and then I'llstart kind of changing some of the most acute things as quickly as I can, onkind of figuring out the longer more strategic bets right like an easy onemight be. I came into Zenbesk and we had ninstrs, but that's for inval denOupelt and we get a lot of embout. So I was like well wher's our Olphonpipeling, like yeah. We don't really do out like Wull. Does anyone do ouhomelike? No? No, we don't. We don't hope like okay. Well, that's something thatI can fix. That Wi give me nough money and I can fix that. Giically O I builtIno, my hadit. You know I had a quota and I had an expense envelope and Imade sure that I could make xsdrs fit into that. So I don't feel as if I cancome in and make sweeping changes right out of the gate. But I do ask a lot ofquestions so that I can understand where the challenges are, whereopportunities are and then start to make changes from that that make sense.I of course I interrupted you before, but you made your way after learningthrough the school of hardnoxy major waiter Andrison, and I think it's alsogoing to be interesting for people to understand. I think for probably a lotof people in the world. INJRESON would be the final destination you know thatwould be where they want to get in their career. How did you figure out togo from Andresen into another? Operating Wol would love to hear aboutyeah. Yes, let me walk you through that. So when I started at Indreson horrorwits, so the operating partner is Mark Crannie, who I think Youre familiarwith Marta many people are very famous tolwiter. He is exactly he like and allthose things they say about him in the book are true, but I learned a ton fromhim, but anyways he had a recruiter, paying me on Linkdon and at first I waslike what the heck. Why is a recruiter from Endreson horirs Pini me for a jobthere? This made no sense to me because I didn't really understand the model.Second of that I was six months pregnant with my second child, and I'mlike I don't want to interview H my walking looking like a house like whatthat I don't want to Goi. This is not what you interview up Wbut, you know.Actually you know Josh Leslie, es CEO, F. Cumulus. Now is a good friend ofmine, and he said you know Jame you just might want to take that call. Youknow it's a great company just take the call. So I did and I passed therecruiter screen and and met with mark for an hour, and you know he jokewithme. The first thing he saw was my stomach, like you know ten feet before.He actually saw me a'd like it's a second kid. What can I say Iinterviewed with mark and I think we know we hit it off quite well. I thinkhe loves to know, like his interview style, actually learned a lot from him.He wants to know where you're from what...

...your parents did, what birth ordwer youare like he's really trying to figure out like are you you take chances? Areyou a leader and ye o kind of picked up a lot of those things O that that I'veused subsequent o that got that job? What that job was? It was partoperating, so I did have a team there and it was part kind of consulted it.So the team part was and Treson horroits runs. I think one of the bestbriefing centers, of course, I'm biased, but I think they have an excellentexecutive briefing program that market built where we would bring in t levelexecutives from Fortun five hundred global two thousand etce to meet withever for half o full day session, with our portfolio companies and we'd cussomcuratetit right. So we had business development raps that would talk toexecutive, really understand their top initias for the year and then curiate,whether it's like security or sast software, whatever the Tipno thineswere that were important to that company. We curate it and then bring inthe portfollio companies to present. So what my team was responsible for doingwas figuring out what companies had no relationship with a Sixtnz, notporfoiol companies or potential portfolios, but the big enterprisecompanies. We would do outreach and these ran some. These are those marketfeedback for the porfolio companies, but also maybe actual potential acquirspartners. Customers is that right we are going for custors. Well, our goalwas to drive pipeline and deals and give access to the portfoial company tosee level and let themselve top down in a way that they ordinarily, would nothave been able to deal but is incredibly valuable. Well, there's athere's something besides just the money itself. That makes a sixteen Cvaluele absolutely, and I felt really good about it, because I knew havingrun n sales teams for startups how difficult it was, if not impossible, toget that sea level meeting, especially right out of the gate. So we were ableto provide that it was a free surface. So there's no cost an a Lhot of thesesea level. Executives do come out to the valley for a valley tour. So whatwe would try to do is make sure, when they're coming out to slicon valleythat interest in horrits is one of the stops they make on that trip. So myteam was responsible for kind of like top of funnel getting new interest, andthen I also had kind of junior business, eveloment eraps, who would also run thebriefings and, and that kind of thing as well. So I did that for about threeand a half years towards the taile end of that I love that job. I learned somuch. I fas so privileged to be able to sit in the room with Ben and mark andthe other general partner is when they were listening to pitches and thenafterwards, listening to their feedback on whether or not they'd make aninvestment, I mean it. I felt like I was in the heart of Silican valley andhad access to things that I just never even imagined. I would have access toso extremely fortunate and thankful for that Opportunity towards the end ofthat three and a half years, though you know, I did a lot of counsels o theportfolio companies often times is a technical. Founder Y have no idea howto build a complant. They have no idea who to hire first when to do insidesales versus field sales, so I would do a lot of counsels with asking themabout their product and understanding it and then help and give them somepoint them in the right direction of Hey. Here's how I think about it, givethem some tools to help hem do it, but I felt like you know, by the end ofthat I was like put be in the game coach. I just Anto. Do it myself so andat that point my kids ware a little older. You know my son was three yearsold. My daughter was seven, so I felt like you know they were't babies,anymore theyw're, both in the same school made our life a little biteasier, and that allowed me to you know, go back to a job that was going torequire more travel, I'm in a bit more time away from home than you know, thea Sixteen d job did so I hin I yot was kind of balancing that worklife balanceto as a mom. You know you got to make as a parent. I should say you just youneed to make those decisions on one. Is it right to lean in when? Is it rightto maybe change the creer path a little bit so that you can feel you'respending enough time with the kids? Did you want to be an investor? Could youever find yourself wishing that you were Ben or mark or actually leadingthe investment for a fund, or do you always think of yourself as an operatoror sort of tbd yeah? You know it's a good question. I at this point in mylife I leaally really love being an operator. I love my team. I have somuch fun. I love this job, but you never can say never right, because Idon't know w where my career is going to go from here and there could be atsome point where it does make sense for...

...me and I would perhaps want to pursuethat type of career, but where I'm at right now. This is what's fun to me,like I really like living and dying by the sword, and it's sharpest winter inthe field. I agree with you, I'm not sure you know it seems to be thedestination of a lot of people to end up on the byside making investments.But for me I don't have enough of an opinion just through the sort of pitchprocess for me to develop a point of view and whether or not to make aninvestment, so I just tend to like Beng in the guts of the thing where Idevelop conviction h that might be due and I'm also not a Gambler, and itfeels like gambling to me. So that's the other thing that makes me a littlebit concerned about investing yeah. It could be so now. Let's get somespecifics, there's a lot of people out there that are running much smallerbusinesses, obviously than yours, and it's always interesting to understandorganizational design so give us a glimpse of first. What was the org thatyou inherited when you join Zen desk and then what does it look like now andwhat sort of Tums did you build? And how did you you know to your pointabout listening to market foedback? How did you think about making thedecisions to stand up those teams and make those investments? So when I camehere, it was a pretty sizable inside sales, team and kind of a limited fieldteam, so the way that it was structured and we kind of built upon it from there.As I mentioned, they had a small SR teams, primarily inbound. They weretechnically hybrid but really didn't have any time for anything else. Thatis an inbound. Then we have what we call velocity, but technically is likean SMB team that covered all customers. They' covered everything fromqualifying their own leavs to closing deals in under a hundred employee space,and then we had everything over. A hundred employees was covered byterritories which was a combination of AES or account executives or more ofthat hybrid account executive, and then there were they were set up in pods,which they still are. Today, it's a little bit of unique structure wherethere's one field rap for every four inside sales reps, and the reason forthat is because we are still much more highly transactional than we are. A tonof large longs, sillcycle deals. So the way I look at the POD Itis. If you lookat their, if they're a hunting team and they're going out there and hunting inthe forest, like sometimes they're, going to flush out a lot of rabbits andmy aes can track, you now chase all those down, but every now and thenyou're going to have youre ging, O flush out a book, and I need thefielderup to be able to take that down, because the inside sals reps, just youknow either don't have the tenure or they're not physically present with theclient to help the get that deal done. So we had the posdruction place. Thechallenge on the top ind of the business sow was most of those fillmraps were located and like they weren't located in the cities, I neededthem in right, most of them ere in San Francisco, a couple maybe in theterritories I needed them and then in New York. So one of the changes I didwas we changed the field structure, so they were in the primary footballcities. An I' have coverage were most of our business was, and thenI also took the SDRs separated them. Inbound. Outbound says you know youprobably get about a twenty five percent upleft by separating them. Wedefinitely saw that and then som an in fact. Our outbound program is nowoutpacing our inbound in terms of Pipe Gen, oh wow. So that was a prettyphenomenal turnaround and then is that becauseof more deals or higher dealsize it well. The howbound is the Outbon does have about a double of theASP of the inbout, so the average saill price is definitely higher. They takelonger to close and their clothes to. Obviously, their conversion rate is notas high but they're getting us into Lagos that we ordinarily would not havebeen at and because they're focused they're able to obviously drive a lotmore than the one out bound. Maybe they could do before right when there 'sonly night of them is there a Salf service component is undus. There isanother good question so, and I think you and I talked a little bit aboutthis before what we do is there is Soe Service and for a lot of Rus to beclients, that's the way they want to operate, but sometimes they willinteract with the sales rap and the sells ruppill just tell him. He listenlike Great Youre set, go ahead and buy those licenses online it'll be it'll,be easier, so they do, but I do not want to spend time arguing over whohelped who and who gets credit on which deals. What we do is we give everyone abit of a higher quota and then they'll get credit for any deal that selfservice or not in their patch. I just...

...handle it with quota rather thanquibbling over who gets credit on what but yeah there ar sell servicecomponent. They are paid on it into the point of the patch, so they have like ageographic territory or they have some lead rotator, but somehow you knowevery transaction that happens at Sandesk, whether it's to sales personor on its own is accounted for. Yes, so the SB team, the under a hundredemployees they're around Robin and if they've closed a deal before that'sconsidered their part of their book that becomes part of their book ofbusiness and they can sell expansion into that book of business. So the bookof business is spread out amongst everyone, but the new endbounds arerotated interesting. We talked about this before, but I dealt with the samething at livestream and it wasn't more about credit. It was more aboutunderstanding what was the impact of the sales machine on the overall growthof the business, because sometimes you're worried that you're justapplying a sales attribution on something that wouldhave happenedanyway, Yep elexactly, so wee got probably five or ten more minuteswanted to. First, just get a little bit more about the technology that you'reusing. So first of all, you just mentioned that your outbound team isgenerating more pipeline than even you're in Vountim. What are the toolsthat you're using to do that? And what's one of your favoritetechnologies? That's in your text ack. This actually kind of surprised me, butwe had bought a tool called six cents last year. Unfortunately, I don't thinkanyone really understood how we were supposed to use it, so we kind of saton it for a while. Then somehow, I think they realize that we're a prettybig account. Oh Gosh. Maybe we should nurtheres UN dusk a little bit, so theyreach back out and train my team on how to use it and they've been able to turnover a lot of significant logos by using that, I think now. This is a bit.You know. I've got a director who runs a senior director who runs that Org tfrom by understanding they're able to really see who has buying tendencies,who's looking for support offerings where they're looking on our websiteother things that they're looking at that might indicate that they're kindof more n in a buying cycle. We actually had one of our prospects thatone of my as noticed them looking around zendas going to SA. You knowwhat toly Sgr go outdown to them. He did, and the customer says back to us.That's so weird that you just called me: We were about to send you anemail, Ohwow, that's and it's called six cents. Yes, the outbound team loves it sothey've been getting in the s two that it's both Aes and the SRS, because myaes outbound as well so everyone's expected to build their own pipeline teexpansion and for nail, so just because they have SDRs does not mean they'reoff the hook, for you know doing their own outbout, so they've both been usingit and that's been pretty successful. What's the percentage of the pipelinethat you expect an a to contribute or generate versus you know out on DCRversus in Bem? That is a good question and I don't know that we actually haveit divided up specifically between the outbound of the strs in the outdound ofthe S, because collectively we're trying to get right now the Albu aneffort is driving half of the pipe Gen. I would say, probably seventy fivepercent of that, if not eighty percent or my SDRs and twenty five percent ofthe s, and that's just because the ats don't have as much time but they'redoing a significant amount of pipe gon on their own in the as the rest oftheir pipe generation is based on expansion, because obviously, we've gota pretty large expansion thusness as well yeah. Your expension business isprobably massive when we're thinking about paying it forward, so we'regetting to the end of our time together. Sadly, but when you think about advice,particular, as you know, there's a lot of discussion and I've asked otherpeople on the pot about this. As a woman in a position of power, whatadvice would you give to the female leadership an the up and coming femaleaccount executives, as you navigated, your creew? How should they think aboutthat? I will give you the female. You know leaders potential female leaders.I think the best piece of Adviceo could give them is go pick up or listen tothe confidence code. I wish I had read it a long time ago. I think that we aswomen tend to wait until we're a hundred and ten percent ready to takeon a new opportunity. I know that's been my you know. That's been my malfor a lot of my career and what I think...

...we need to realize is that our malecounterparts tend to maybe be fiel ther, maybe sixty percent riahty, but they'reall in like they're going for that next roll, so we're kind of sitting back andwaiting to be overready, and it has a lot to do with biology and kind of howour chemistry works. But I really think there's an opportunity for women to getout over your skeiys a little bit. You know make yourself a little bituncomfortable you're, going to do just as well as anyone else and don't letyourself be the one. That's folting yourself back interesting, so I meannot completely but a little bit of like fake it til you make it present. Youknow domain expertise and subject: metorics Betese, maybe slightly head ofyour actual experience and just jump in and figure it out as you go yeahbecause you know, there's always going to be noon. Ot of that you're nevergoing to be. If you wait till you're hundred sene percent ready, then itcould be too late. Yeah. It's great advice, last question, so you knowfavorite other VPS of sales or other people that we should know about. Youknow as we're making a list of people that we want to know. We want toappreciate and recognize their work whoare some of the I, the people thathave impacted you over the last. You know twenty years I think the tvpieceof sales ha stand out to me most or gettingte Karl Asshabok who's, now aover at Saquoa, but I worked with himitting to me. He was became ceooeventually over at Vm, where Carl, never late for a meeting will stillreturn. My tax like within the same hour, if not minutes, of me, textinghim, which I find amazing, probably still remembers my husband's name. Mydogs, hey he's just one of those leaders that you could literally falloff a cliff like he's just so phenomenad at what he does. I don'tknow a single person, who's worke with him, both seastaff level IC level,doesn't matter he's just one of those carismatic leaders that I think arereally hard to come across and then mark cranny too. If you know, go readhard thing about hard things, there's a lot of really great wisdom in that book.Overall, I think ben is a phenomenal founder, he's extremely bright, verypersonbale very funny and mark is the quinescential Batafillo General. Idon't think there's anyone that can kind of lead in a very competitivemarket as well as he can and really get the right troops in place. Fight forthe right complans like mark is quinessentially top Dohon, one ofprobably the best enterprise, a VPS. From that perspective, awesome that'sgreat advice. One question is: Are you guys hiring or if people want to reachout to you and get in touch with you? After hearing this, what is yourpreferred communication channel? I am hiring. We are hiring for our secondhalf, where most of my hiring takes place, so we've got openings andeverything from SDR account, executive and I've got three offices, I'm rightnow for Koun Executives, I'm only hiring in New York and in San Francisco,and then we've got some field positions as well. I think my management rolesare hundred percent filled. YEA super excited about that, but yeah we'redefinitely hiring and then out. Reachd to me I think, probably linkdon mightbe the best. So Jamie Buss go ahead and connect to me there. I am J Fbus, so JF is in Francine Buss on twitter. So you can reach out to me there as well,and I could definitely respond but yeah go connect me that way what love tohear from the audience and if they're interested in Zondeska, I candefinitely get them connected to the right folks. Here. That's fantastic!Well, Jamie! Thank you! So much for participating in the PODCAST and I hopeto see you in person soon, the next time I'm on the West Coast, Thake, somuch SAI'm looking forward to it, but thanks so much Bi. Another wonderful interview with Jamiebus, Gephias sales, North America, from Sandesk. This is Sam's corner thanks.Everybody for listening Jamie has been doing this a long time. She spent timeat Andreson where she helped cortfolio companies get access to the most seniorexecutives of Corporate America. She's also spent time building sales teamsand building leadership teams of places like tmwhere, so she's seen a lot andshe's even seen. You know the failed startoffs, both in the the EARLYCOMbubblebust and subsequent to Er time, wit vmr before she got to Andreson. SoI think, first of all, her experience is incredibly relevant. Two things, onevery generic and strategic and then the second pretty tactical. The JERICANstrategic is she said, and it was directed at the women in the audience.But it's really to everybody. Don't wait till you have a hundred percentconfidence in your expertise on a new...

...endeavor before jumping in the timingis really really important when it comes to a new rule when it comes to anew job, so make sure that you're a little bit uncomfortable and thatthere'something that you're Canna have to learn, because if you feelcompletely comfortable, it's likely that the opportunity is kind to go tosomebody else. That's kind of thing number one! That's a strategic, andgeneric here is the highly tactical which is a lot of different goto marketmodels. But there are Inbon lads coming. There's a self service channel. There'sa lot of channel conflict and Janie goes ahead and comps her inside salesteam that processes, both the Self Service leads and the sort of SNBtransaction. She comps all of those transactions. Goards Bota, as long as esalesperson has touched the lead- and I think that removes a lot of the sourceof conflict when you're trying to attribute revenue to self service- andyou don't want to give credit to the sales team easier to just give all ofthe credit to the sale teem for the purposes of Puota attainment so thatyoumove all the channel conflict from the low end part of the business, whichI think is the right move, and it's obviously one that I would pursue wereI heard so. Those are two tid bits from sands corner final thing: Go out andread: First break all the rules, it's the best management book. There is andshe's damn right about that. Thanks for listening, this has been Sam's corner.I will see you on the next episode to check out the show, notes, seeupcoming guests and play more episodes from our incredible Lineu of salesleaders, visit sales, hackercom, sh podcast. You can find the sales hackingpodcast on itunes or Google play, and if you enjoyed this episode, pleaseshare with your peers on Linkdon, twitter or elsewhere, and I've seen alot of people sharing a lot of insights from the podcast. So thank you verymuch for doing that. Please continue to do so. Finally, special thanks again tothis month, sponsors at air call seemore at air called that io I've beenfollowing company pretty closely they've been growing at a tourd rate. Iknow they just raised a big GAUNDOF financing and the VP Marketing JeffryKurs is going to be a guest on future episodes of the podcast so check outair call and then finally, finally, if you want to get in touch with me, findme on twitter, at Sammith Jacobs or on Linkdin at Lenkincom Inflash, Sam, FJacobs. Well see next time, thanks.

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