The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

17. The True Secrets to Successful Enterprise Sales w/ Dave Govan

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This week on the Sales Hacker podcast, we feature longtime CRO, Dave Govan to chat about complex negotiations and sales cycles in enterprise sales.

One two one: Three Three Fo high folks welcome to the Sales Hockerpodcast we're excited about our new sponsor. This episode has been brought to you byoutreach, the leading sales engagement platform which triples the productivityof sales teems and empowers them to drives predictable and measurablerevenent growth by prioritizing the right activities and scaling customerengagements with intelligent automation. Outreach makes customer facing teamsmore effective and improves visibility into what really drives results.Thousands of customers, including Claudera Glastor, Pandora and Zilorelion Outrach, to deliver higher revenue for sales, REP witsout furtherDu. Let's get on with the show everybody welcome to the sale, hockerpodcast. It's your host, Sam Jacos! I am delighted to have on today's show agood friend of mine, someone I consider a mentor founding member of the NewYork revenue, collective and just an all around great guy and one of themost respected sales leaders in the New York Metropolitan area. So we've gotDave, Govan he's a VP of sales currently for Pintago Solutions, whichis part of Hittachi Vintera, but really quickly. Let me tell you Dave'sbackground his very impressive background. Over the last must be morethan twenty years, but he'll tell us first, he ran his own consulting from Gto strategic advisory services before joining Bentago he's also been Shue,forevenue officer at Dynamic Dield at sale. Through he was svp of NorthAmerica Ad Versin. He was SEPO sales and professional services at tosoftware. He was an area of VP earlier in his career, an nhat perceptions inthe personalization space and he's also been a kickass contributor at Oracleand at Dec. So welcome Dave to the show. Thank you. Sam is great to be here. Weare excited to have you my friend, so why don't? We start off really quicklywith your baseball card so that...

...everybody that's outside of the NewYork Tri State area can get to know you a little bit. So your name is Dave.Govan give us your title: Tur, a vpsls at HATACI VENTARA for Pinto hostsolutions, so how big is Hitachi and how big is sort of your perview forPentako, so the TACI Vantara is a four billion dollar technology company,headquartered in Santa Clara and we ere part of Hatachi Limited, which is aneighty two billion dollar global conglomerate. That's big! And how longhave you been doing, the startup thying? How or at least the sales leadershipthing? Sales leadership twenty years have had a really exciting mix of earlystage companies and public companies. You know it's always interesting forpeople that are earlier in their career if they want to be cro at places likesale through where we've had a guess, Cassi Young, who you know and placeslike dynamic yield. We always like to know how you got there so tell us. Yourorigin story tell us where you came from and how we ended up speaking onthe phone today sure so I'm actually from outside the industry, I'm from afamily that I grew up in a busy family restaurant environment in a rural partof New Jersey on the border of Pennsylvania and decided to take adifferent life path than I think my parents desired and went off to collegeand earned a degree and marketing and computer science and was always veryexcited about technology. So hence I joined a tech industry quite a whileago was really focused on the people aspect of the business and really lovethe commercial side. So I went into tech sales. So what was your first jobout of school, so I joined deck when I was really young at the time it was thesecond largest computing company in the world and we are competing with IBM andHP et Ceta. At the time it was probably around eight billion a year when Ijoined and when I left it was around fourteen billion and were you sellingmain frames? Is that right? What was the thing that you were selling whatdeck revolutionize the industry with servers? Really IDM was known for mainframes and as several other companies,...

...a deck was a pioneer in the space sortof like the Google of its day and had brought around Eiternet and clientserver and lots of really great innovations. We had about a two billiondollar professional services, business around a three billion dollar softwarebusiness and the rest was servers. Hardware, storage, printers Etcetra. Iwas really Fortunatewoud kind of lucked out in that I wound up in largeenterprise sales as a very young person and went through an extensive trainingperiod there, six months in the field and in classroom training, it couldn'thave been a better starting ground. For me in terms of learning the techindustry, do they have SDRs back then sort of? How did they bring you intothe organization? Yes, for the advent of kind of like glimader and salesarchitecture yeah, so they didn't really have SDRs per se. They had you knowmarketing functions, but they did have sales training programs, so they werealways looking for young college graduates or folks with a couple yearsof experience that they could bring into what they call the more of like asales development program, and you were given a role, an a mentor and and anassignment, and you basically learned and you sold and interacted with CIOSand directors and it and business, and then they invested in continually inyour training and growth, and you could rise to whatever level youwanted to pretty much so and then so you went from there to Oracle. Is thatright, yesh? It's always interesting for people to hear about the path fromindividual contributor to ultimately a manager- and I know after Oracle lookslike that was the moment that you made the jump to VP. So you know walk usthrough that evolution and I guess what are the things that you think you didparticularly well that enabled you to make that transition from. You knowindividual contributor to manager. Sure that's a great question. So orkel isreally starting to take off. When I joined was recruited into Oracoale,really like the software side of the business, when I was at Dekso, it wasvery attractive to me and also the reputation for higher incomes in Oraclewas pretty well known, which is...

...something I was interested in of course,and so I transitioned over to Oracle and did very well there. I think it waswith. In my second year I was actually global account manager of the year. Ireceived an award for NORCL's executive committee, so I showed a lot of I hadbeen selling for a while N. I was at deck for eight years, and so I had alot of experience that was very relevant and I was able to translatethat experience at Oracle as well as my large account relationships and reallyyou know, Hits Trie there. I also learned a lot of Oracle really aboutyou, know software business practices and, and you know, the sort of salesprocess, side of enterprise software sales, and so it went really well and Ialways had a desire to grow in my career and I really like serving othersind any effective leader knows that the end of the day, it's really all aboutyour team and your customers, and so I have the mentality and I think that mymanagement o recognize that so coming off of like a really great year, Ireceived a double promotion to a regional manager level. It's like afirst level VP and I was pretty young at the time. I didn't really have muchtraining in the way of management or leadership at that time, but I justjumped into the role and ran at it. That's good, well, you're there atOracole. How long were you AD Orcol? And I guess you know one of the thingsthat's always interesting. Is They give you that double promotion? And then youknow fast forward in time and Yourat places like sale through and dynamicyield, which were more classically? What would I guess, consider start upcompanies, obviously Oracleis, not a startup. So how did you think aboutmaking the transition from you know big company to start up and now now you'reback inta big company again walk us through. You know, there's a lot offolks out there that are working for early stage companies and thinkingabout how to manage their careers. How do you view the differences between abig company and a startup and one of the advantages disadvantages of each?And how do you make your way through all of those decisions so its thatOracl for five years in total Ithe,...

Inter your first question and and o'just answer your other questions? Kind of in one complete answer, so anybusiness that I've led I've always kind of just looked at it as an entity allright whether the entity is part of a large corporation or whether it's partof the startup? It has its own unique needs and requirements, and what I tryto do is basically do a bit of planning upfront to make sure that thatorganization is targeted at the right sort of prime suspects and the rightsegmentation for what is being sold. And that principle applies in argecompanies and it applies in small companies. So targeting is the firstreally key. Where are you going to focus your people and your resourcesand then? Secondly, what what's the messaging you're going to market withoften in warch companies? The messaging exists, and you just have to customizeit a bit for your particular target vertical or go or what audience levelfrom a title perspective and in startups you have to create thatmessaging or work with marketing people to optimize it, and then it's thequestion of how an hiring great people same need in both situations, large orsmall. You have to have great people on your teet training them supporting thembeing in the game, with customers, helping a move, sales opportunities,Forwad and in n all the sort of back office approvals contracts. All of that,so you would find actually much more commonality between large companies andstartups, and I think is obvious. There are pros and cons to answer your lastquestion of working in each type of environment, and I can go into thatmore detail if you want, but I see a lot of commonality there tellous thepros and cons, because again lots of folks are there in the world are comingout of school and their SDRs at early stage companies, and then they move upto account executives and they never get the kind of true classicalenterprise sales training that you get.

But from your perspective, what do youthink the pros and cons are sure? Well, you just mentione one of them. Traininglarger organizations tend to have more resources to train younger people, andI've met many really talented, highly intelligent young people that, whenthey receive professional training, they really excel, and you can tell thepeople who have been trained versus not trained, so training is definitely onekey resource and another is actually sort of breath of opportunities. Whenyou work in a large company, it's not actually much easier to get meetingsfor you know for your teams to get in front of customers we're all competingfor their time and if you're, not good at that, you're still going to strugglerather in a large company or small company, but having a brand is veryhelpful. There's no question about it when it comes to sort of the vendorviability of endercredibility sale, people really make the difference there,and so in startup. You have to have people on the leadership team, as wellas on your staff, who can establish personal credibility, professionalcredibility instead of just that kind of large brand credibility. So thoseare some of the differences. I've experienced it's political in bothenvironments, so I think there's a bit of a misperception that you know:There's less politics and startups, and I've experienced heavy politics andstartups and also in large companies. I think that collaboration and teamworkalso exists in both environments. I've seen it fairly equal, so I thinkthere's just a lot of sort of you know more in common than there is adifferent about it. I would say one of ther main difference to with largecompanies is the indirect channel, so most large companies have establishedpartners which can be very critical to the success of the sales organizationor any organization. That's looking to move forward in terms of satisfyingcustomers, professional services, sales, preceles etcer, so that's definitely anadvantage. A distinct advantage in a large company is having a formalalliance program partners. Usually...

...there are quite a few people thatactually, their fulltime job is to manage that business and help saleslink with partners and work opportunities, etcetera and thattypically doesn't exist or it's nacent in a startup, but each job I foundfulfilling. I found it very fulfilling in startups, collaborating and breakingnew ground for the first time, and you know helping founders, execute on themilestones with the board and then in large companies as well, just helpming,my organization and working teaming with other organizations to winstrategic opportunities or accounts or compete and win so I've enjoyed both.That makes sense. You mentioned something, that's interesting to me.You said, there's politics and both types of organizations. I think there'sa lot of different definitions out there for what politics means. Whatdoes it mean to you to me? Politics are basically biases and opinions andinteraction between people that are a distraction to the primary objective ofthe function or the people. So it's sort of like that human, like we're allhuman, we're all imperfect in certain ways. So it's those imperfections thatcome out where people form alliances or biases or whatever that basicallysometimes work against the common good. That's how I would describe it to yourpoint. I think the easiest definition I use tends to be when decisions are madeon nonobjective basis and nat, because it's reallated to preferences. Not Youknow I like this person more than that person, not because we have emetricthat we're measuring. Yes, I think that's well put the thinking about Startus, because youjust you've, you know you've worked at a lot of them and you've seen somesucceed in some fail. What are some of the biggest lessons you've learned fromyour time at startups in high gress companies, Ol there's so many I couldtalk for days. EAIN. It's really exists, a ton of them. I can talk about whatI've seen contribute to success versus failure. If that you thinks relevant, Ithink that would be very relevant yeah.

It seems like when startups get goingtheyre. You know they're heavily focused on the core product, or youknow, products right and that's natural, because obviously come up with an ideato innovate in society or in business, and someone has a brilliant idea andthen gets funding, and that person often is a product oriented person oran engineer or something like that. But there's this whole other commercialaspect that is heavily dependent on a strategy and the strategy is executedthrough something called a market map, and the market map starts with thevoice of the customer and then goes through about five or six aspects, allthe way through to marketing and sales execution and anyone listener cangoogle it in see a classic market map, but I've consulted for dozens ofstartups and have worked in several and every single case. The market map wasnot there. Some of the concepts within the market map were there, but overallmarket map was not in existence and the market map actually keeps you honest.It's like a nautical chart. If you're sailing somewhere, you chart it out inadvance and that's the course you're taking o course. You make adjustmentsfor weather, but for the most part, that's the course, and without that,it's very easy to stray off course, and that doesn't mean you don't create anew course. Sometimes, if you discover something along the way, that's youknow more exciting and bigger, like I totally get that, but even when you dothat, you should still go back and create a new market map or revise yourmarket map so trying to get somewhere without a market map. An the wholefront office aspect is really problematic, so I think the companiesthat have been really successful or the ones who have that whate are the mostimportant elements of the MARKETMAP. When you see companies go off track, isit that they haven't defined their ideal customer profile? Is it that themessaging is off? I'm sure all of there's a million factors thatcontribute but ather one or two that are the most critical to get right. Ithink it's really the starting point...

...with the voice of the customer andbecause you think about it this way, unless what you offer addresses acuteto pain for someone in power, it's not going tosucceed, so someone in power and a business has to be able to feel that. Well, if I spend more timeand money on you know evaluating this and buying this solution, it's going toresolve this acute pain or help me growing in some way. I think in manycases is people fall in love with theirinventions and that's missing and then sort of mapping out the whole solutiondesign to that in with like looking at competitive vulnerabilities, forexample, so you create differentiation into the solution, design etceter. Ithink that's really key, so it's, in other words the sales of marketingexecutioner, critical. However they're only going to be as effective as thefront end of your strategy and the Front Endof the strategies, productdevelopment right. Is that what you're saying? Well? It's Voice of thecustomer into product development, this solution, design, right and then goingfrom. There is absolutely ky, because if you misread that or make falseassumptions like, I had a client once who basically market tested theirproduct in the SMB space and then went up market immediately to enterprise andthei assumptions were off because enterprise had different requirementsthan SNB, so what they thought was really innovative and novel turned outto be Passa to their enterprise buyers. Yeah, that's a classic mistake, whichis, if theyere going to build an enterprise product in the first placethey should have started there. That's right so have to be careful and it'snot easy right, because we're all proud of our work right and if developers ofengineers product people spent all this time an effort and money getting thisamazing technology together, it's easy to fall in love with it and it's youknow: Theyre baby and the babyis always...

...beautiful, but it's really importantI's early as possible to get that external validation, and you know makesure that you're on course that way, yeah! I agree. You mentioned somethingelse. That's super interesting that you and I have talked about individually,which is you didn't say it this way, but but at the point it's clear, whichis it's not just enough to solve somebodys acute pain. You need to solvesomebody's, a cute pain that has power in the organization. I think there'syou know, there's a lot of folks out there in the world that have, you know,mastered the simple sale which is fine, O champion get the deal done, maybebecause it's a midmarket deal yes, but the complex sale is very, verydifferent and your a master of it walk the audience through some of the keyelements, the power components and how to think about building preference fora solution at the enterprise level, because you've done it so well and sorepeatedly sure it's actually more straight for than one might think. Ittakes a lot of just basic empathy and common sense, but a little bit ofplanning, not a lot. So you know the first guiding principle and it's aMontra that I created years ago, which is the only plan that matters ispower's plan. So you can ask anyone in my organizations and over the years andthey'll laugh and chuckle and tell you they've heard that a million times, butit's really true. The only plan that really matters when you're selling to aenterprise is powers, a plan. Everyone else's plan doesn't matter becausepower is the ultimate decision maker Anprover of your opportunity right ofyour contract. So you have to make sure that you are in a situation where youcan gain access to power, and you can verify all the different conversationsthat your team has had with other people with power. Getting back to thepoint with complex sales, you can boil it all down to a very straight portapproach. So in my organization for example, first thing I asked them to dois make sure they have an qualified opportunity. We use medical to do thatand that that tdoes a really good filter. So you have that filter reallyquicklyd Davi. Only because you know...

...got a lot of nubies out there. What ismedical talls, what medical stand for so 's? It's an old qualification, youknow acronym, but it basically it's metrics, that your solution satisfiesthe metrics that Ibire and their power wants to achieve. It's the economicbuyer, so you've gained access to the economic byre which in this case I'musing you know H, sline term power. It's the decision process that you'veidentified the decision criteria, it's the identification of pain as having achampion and then a link it to the business and there's a few filters outthere. You know back in the day at Verasin we used value, prompters,painfit value, power and plan, which is similar. I think medical takes it alittle bit further, so you just want to make sure your opportunities arequalified for that and that's an ongoing process. It doesn't happen inone conversation it takes, you know multiple conversations and meetings andto filter based on that, but that's only part of it that still doesn'treally get to complex sale, selling or power baseselling. After that, then,you have to the next step, which is pretty straight quarters. You have tomap out the state holders, so the stakeholders are, who are theindividuals that are involved, what's their job title and then really take aobjective? Look at their preference for your solution, the power level theyhave in the decision making process for this project right any particularagendas, business agendas that you've been able to identify, and then thepain type that these different individuals are experiencing, forexample, is that operational pain is it financial pain? Is a strategic pain,etcete imaginive matrix that you map out with these individuals? Now in thevery beginning, there's many answers. You don't know, so you just leave himblank Callim blind spots, whatever you want to do there, but just not thatthose blind spots need to be filled in at some point, because if you're goingto go about the process of influencing the preference across this power base,you have to know who the targets are...

...right like who are you going toactually reach out to and figure out where they are? And then the third stepis the plan, the actual complex sales plan? You know the powerbase sellingplan Alaholden, where you're now taking actions as a team, not an individualbut you're, leveraging your manager Youre leveraging your VPS sales, yourleveraging, your head of consulting your enlevraging, your CTO, yourleveraging, your founder CEO, maybe your Coo, a larger company, whateverthe power base is your ses for sure and you're. Basically, the accountexecuties acting as a quarterback, so to say, mapping that team into thepower base and brokering meetings with you know: Sea Level, people withsealevel people and VPS with VPS just to gain a perspective on where thosecustomers are coming from, like what their desires are for this particularproject and then to influence them toward what you're selling or, ifthey're like too far gone and they're married to the competition for somereason and neutralize them. Just you know, agree to disagree and move on. Sothere's this whole selling process of working through that that we don't dothat on, and I don't recommend anyone does that on every single salesopportunity. If you have a simple opportunity, where really there's twoindividuals involved- a buyer and theire manager- and it's a loweraverage order value, you don't need to go through all that. But if you have astrategic opportunity where you're cracking an account for the first timeopen or it's a larger, you know order value, then it's absolutely worthtaking the time to map out a strategy and a plan and team cell into thatenvironment in this is like a tried and true approach. I we used it recently,my organization and basically generated in incremental half a million dollarsin in license support and services off of a a customer who wasn't reallylooking to do much more with us,...

...because the account executive got topower brought me in brought the head of consulting in brought his manager inhad the right ses involved and identified a strategic opportunity andthen work the power base accordingly and was able to close an incrementalhalf a million dollars which we normally would not have had it. have henot followed this approach? One of the nonobvious dimensions of this process,or at least it's not obvious to me, is how you think about the different typesof pain and how there's certain types of pain that actually aren'tinteresting enough for for a solution to be implemented, meaning a sale to bemade. Walk us through that Framework Yeah. That's an Astut observation onyour part. So, unfortunately, much of our sales training is feature based.You sort of newer reps memorize, all the features and capabilities, and thenit's like a actor who's done a great job of refersing. They get on the stageand they kind of just you know tell what they know, but unfortunately manyof the power players that you call on they actually don't have operationalpain. That's linked to those features. So in technology, many of the featureslinked to operational sobbing operational paid. But if you move upstream there could be cultural pain, there can be financial pain and thenstrategic pain. It's easy to define those types of pain, because there it'sjust business right. So you know strategic pain is hey. I'm losingmarket share to my head, my chief competitor, because my organizationmoves slower. So if your solution helps them get information faster and getbetter insight into the decisions they're making to compete, maybedeliver product faster. You know, innovate in RND, quicker, increasetheir pipeline in RND, then you're actually going to affect strategic painright and sometimes the paints financial, which is the CFO orcontrollers pain. Hey, I'm bleeding...

...here, I'm losing a significant amountof money and your solution happens to reduce costs internally significantlyand then cultural pain is hey. I have you know. In some cases you might havea situation where there's a lot of bias in my company and there's a lot of youknow harassment issues and I need to really deal with that and you might beselling something that helps educate people on dealing with unconscious biasand educates them to become upstanders when it comes to diversity andinclusion. Right that that's an example of addressing cultural pain and, ofcourse, operational pain, is what it is. It's like hey. You know it takes us toolong to execute x and Y or know this product is not getting the job done forme, their gaps here and there you know what have you there's a millionexamples of that yeah and and part of your point, if I'm not mistaken, as youknow, operational pain is typically experienced by people that may bechampions, but don't actually have a lot of decision making authority withinthe organization. That's absolutely right on and that's why manyopportunities die on the vine, because the sales team is on an amazing job oflinking with operational pain, but there's a gap at the senior level withpower because they haven't been able to translate how that solving thatoperational pain actually will address financial or strategic pain for the CFOor for the CEO or chief risk officer whomever the job is basically torealize. You have a mixed audience who have different types of pain, and youneed to translate your solution to each audience type so that you'recommunicating to each audience in their own language. The benefits of how youaddress each of those different pain types. That's when you have a hundredpercent alignment and can't lose yeah. That makes a lot of sense. That'sreally really helpful, so you know you've been doing this a little whilenot too long you're, not that old, you're, pretty young you're young ofheart, thanks check is in the mail same things. Oh, do go on. You were dancingwith a drink in your hand. So what...

...advice you know you're reflecting backon the last twenty years. Obviously you have a point of view on things thathave helped you and things that have not helped you. What advice would yougive to the folks that are starting off in their careers? Sure I've beenlistening to Hamilton a lot like recently the soundtrack- and you knowwhen Burg gives Hamilton Advice, which is talk, less listen more and I thinkthat's very valid for folks who are coming up right and I've was guilty ofit back in the day and sometimes I'm still guilty of it, but I think theopportunity to listen and learn from customers and board members andinvestors and management and colleagues is just you know such a valuable assetto us that I think that's an opportunity that really we don't wantto waste. You know just being able to gain the perspective of others andobserve that before we stress rour point of view- and I think also justlike- I mentioned it before professional training and experience-I'm so enthused by the younger members of my organization and also that I meetin the industry and one of them asked me recently. What would you recommend?I do- and I said well, firt of all you're doing incredibly well already.This person I has closed around is a founder, probably he's, probably in his late IESearly s and closed around for a hundred nineteen million dollars. Recently,that's a very large round, yeah you're doing tremendous already. The onlything I can think of is really invest in professional training in any gap,areas that you have an experience like, for example, negotiate, contractnegotiation or value base, selling or effective presentations or whatever. Itis right, just invest in the professional training, because it'sworth it it will pay off in your career and then, secondly, put yourself insituations where you can have as many experiences as possible. I think thinkthat is really key to growing. I...

...couldn't imagine what my life would belike now, if I didn't have the opportunity to have all the differenttypes of experiences I've had to date. It's just been invaluable to me. So rawtown and high intelligence are amazing assets, but they're not substitutes forprofessional training and real world experience. So I always encourage folksto do that. That is a point well made. I've got some fairly tactical questionsbecause again, I think there's a lot of folks out there that are runing. Youknow fifteen, maybe fifty husanddollar deals and they always aspire to theenterprise. But you know it's rare that we get somebody with your experiencethat we can just ask the questions to so organizational design. We don't needto know how many people are in your org, but you know what are some ratios like?What are the roles that you have that you go to market with that help? Youexecute your plan. So let me answer that from a startup perspective,because I think that would be more relevant when I'm hired as a startupCro, I need to establish a Le Gen function. I need to establish some typeof field marketing because I firmly believe events are one of the mostcritical, most effective ways to actually engage with the right audience.I think that there was a statistic recently from Gongdad io used to befive to seven attempts to engage with a prospect, and now it's up to eight tothirteen attempts to think about that for a second eight to thirteen attemptsper SDR PR AE to get a suspect to engage, that's a tremendous amount ofeffort. I think, if we're able to get really hypertargeted when it comes tosmaller events, that you know like the I'm, a big fan of Vara dinners andthose types of events and you butique conferences, I think that that thatgoes a long way. Not that we'll stop the you know SDR function by any means,but it's just you know another way to do it. So there has to be that, inaddition to legion, there has to be a...

...good field, marketing effort. You knowwhen you're boot strapping a company, then of course depending on thetechnology you're selling, you may need ses. So certainly o you need raps rightand, depending on what you're selling you could need ses sales engineers knowtechnical engineers who can interact with customers who have a salesattributes depending on how technical your solution is, that will determ theratio, so I've gotten away with, like one se to for AES in less technicalsales and then in more technical sales, one to one ratio, se to Rep. what'syour str to ae ratio, so usually I think Oneato tostrs or to threesdrs isreally a good range. I've stretched it to for, and that has caused a lot ofstress and I wouldn't recommend that and again it depends on the nature ofYour Business and how much you know money you can you can invest and thensales operations once you get going, you know when we're starting to roll.Then you need a good sales operations person, I think. In the beginning, youcould outsource that there are a lot of qualities of contractors around who canhelp you with your hercrm capability, but you got to get going right away.Some companies make the mistake of not paying attention to it until like twoor three years in and then it's just just like crazy Gordian, not that youhave to try to cut through and figure out it just like really causes a lot ofpain, so you're, better off starting and having a professional helping youthere in the part time. So those are really the core functions in somemodels. You don't need professional services. You just need like reallygreat customer success and in other models you need customer success andyou need professional services, consultants to go on site and implement.So those are two other critical. You know sort of Front offic functions thatyou need and then, when you get going and larger than you look at renowls andso the way I've always approached that as I've had strategic renals handled byfield AES and I've had kind of you know,...

...basic renals handled by renewls managerand and then an adding a team as time goes on. So those are, I don't thinkI'm leading out any functions. Some former team members might yellt me if Ido, but I think I covered them all that would imply that they're all listening,which would be great, given all of your experience, some really quick sort ofspecific questions. What percent of a pipeline do you think an ae shouldgenerate on their own at the enterprise level? So you know you've mentioned tome before. If I'm not mistaken, your version of enterprise we're looking ata quote of maybe two point: four million for not mistaken correct whatpercent of their pipe onc should come from them doing outreach on their ownversus their SDRs or marketing? How do you think about fiplane coneecontribution as much as we can get from marketing, or you know SDRs the betteroff we're going to be, but it's often just not the case, so I meanrealistically what I've seen is anywhere from twenty five to thirtythree percent coming from those functions in the balance of the burdenbeing on the accounting secx, there's just no enlarge enterprise B to bethere's just no substitute for that type of account executive that canactually call on power. Call on midlevel managers call on you, knowevaluators and find projects and find opportunities and get introductionsfrom partners, or you know other colleagues or Peol that they've knownbefore it just doesn't seem like there's a substitute for that.Obviously, as a sales leader, I would love their contribution burden topipeline to be as low as possible, so that they're just focused on qualifyingand and managing opportunities and winning them. But it's really justhasn't been the case that I've seen in startups in large companies. You know Ithink that could way back in the day when I was at a orcle and things havechanged, I've been out of there a long time, but the primary burden was on thefield to generate pipeline and I think it's pretty common across largecompanies today. That makes a lot of sense. Last question before we sort ofget into some final parting words of...

...wisdom, but if you're thinking aboutyour text, tack, we're always comparing notes. So you know we don't want to benegative in any. We want to celebrate the great companies that are partnersof yours. So what are the companies that are in your text? ACK? What aresome tools that you really can't live without sure? In my text, tack, I haveslack out reach sales cortscom, exactly greenhouse linked in it's a toughquestion on what I couldn't live without really appreciate all of thosetechnologies, and you know in other ones, I'm considering right now. Iwould say honestly, probably linked in if I think about power base selling,you know complex sales and the amount of intelligence we gain from Linkdin.That seems like a critical asset that we couldn't. We couldn't live without,obviously, for you know, heavy users of all the other office, automation, email,texting, Etcetra, but the I think of that account intelligence, and you know,persona intelligence that we get about suspects on Linkdin company news, theability to connect with people that just seems like a killer ap for usright now, very good. I like Linkein to on there often inundating my legion offollowers with annoying statements, I'm one of them yeah. Well, thank you,buddy, it's okay! I enjoy it, throw me alike every once in a while lastquestion. You know content that you consume, that you know, makes youbetter or books, you're reading or podcast you're listening to ormethodologies what are some if we want to keep following the bread come trailand you know get as good as Dave Govan or get some new ideas plan us in somedirections. Yeah, I read I all the time I tried it like. I subscribe to thefeeds that are coming across social media for different types of businessesand sectors you're in so I would say that the you know first role of Tumb,if you're in a particular market, obviously a no bringer, you shouldfollow people who are writing in that space and and receiving the latestgoings on about that space. IALSO do...

...listen to Bloomberg quite a bit as wellwhen I'm driving around, and I think that gives you a healthy kind of globalview and domestic view of what's going on in the greater economy. So when youare calling on CE level, O BP level people, you K ow you're, aware of the general trends an you knowhappenings in the in various industries that are out there. So I find that thatthat's kind of a really good media source for variety of information onfrom a Bloomberg perspective, Blumberg Radio Perspective for personal pleasure.I actually try to avoid technology just to give some balance in my life. So Idon't really read a lot about tech, I'll read occasionally some primerbooks, but most of my reading is really about history. I really enjoy there'san author. Rontenauo writes biographies, I'm reading a book now on Easly SS sgrant which is fascinating, but it is great- and I heard the new grantbiography is amazing. He's one of my favorite people yeah. It is awesome,awesome, listen! Dave! Thank you! So much for contributing to the PODCAST. Ithink the lessons that Youven parted around the complex sales process andhow to really deliver an enterprise sales methodology that worksareincredibly valuable it the listener. So thank you so much for participating andI'm sure I will see you very very soon at future. Gatherings of the New Yorkrevenue. Collective. Thank Sam. It's been awesome spending some time withyou. I think this is great and really enjoy these podcasts. So I encourageeveryone to listen to them, they're very informative. So thanks agaiing foryour time and have a great rest of your day. I will one last thing gave ifpeople want to get in touch with you are they allowed to? Is that okay and,if so, maybe because you're, hiring or maybe because they're seekingmentorship or for any reason, what's the best way to do it? What's yourpreference sure few choices, confriend Meing, linked in it's Dav, OV, govenand just mentioned a podcast and I'll...

...be happy to accept, can reach out to mebe a Gmail DJ, Goven Govan at gmlcom, so those are two choices. Awesome.Thank you. So much I'll talk to you soon sounds great. Thanks. Take Care, Hey folks, at Sam's Corner. I meant itwhen I said that Dave Govan is a big influence on me and a big mantorna lotof the processes that we've designed here of behavoks have been stronglyinsoenced by Dat. So I think he said something, and I reiterated it in theconversation, but I want to underscore it. We talk a lot about pain butthere's different types of tain. An operational pain tends to sit withinand below the power line, and so what I mean is that the people that experiencesort of inefficiencies in their daily workflow, that is not always importantenough for the CEO or a sea level executive at an organization to signoff on, and you really need to figure out. What is the pain that the powerhas that the solution consultes and as Dave mentioned in the podcast, the onlyplan that matters is power's plan, which means that many many times in anenterprise sale a deal can get killed because you've got a champion below thepower line, it's enamored of the solution or the product, but thatenamorization. If that's a word, doesn't appeal. Or does he speak to theBulls of the sea? Suite and those are the goals that are most important foryour solution to impact, because that those are the people that have themoney to sign the check to pay you for what you're trying to do so think aboutmoving above the power line and speaking to pain that resonates withthe CEA sueet and the organization if you're working on an interpice salethanks so much for listening to check out the show, notes, see upcomingguests and play more episodes from our incredible Anba sailleaders visit sales,hackercom podcast, you can find us on itunes or people play, and if youenjoyed this episode, please do share with your peers on like dentwiter orelsewhere. We always love it. When we...

...see people sharing content and tellingtheir friends we've been growing every month, so we're super excited about it.Thank you and finally, special thanks again to this month, sponsors. Itoutreach, Seymor, outreached out io forward sales tacer. Finally, finally,if you want to get in touch with me, find me on twitter samf Jacobs, which,unfortunately, for you maybe overburdened with political and Washtoncapitals, related tweets. But if you want professional correspondence, findme on Linkedin at lingthoncom and L, Sam F, Jacobs, I'll see you next time.

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