The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

17. The True Secrets to Successful Enterprise Sales w/ Dave Govan

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This week on the Sales Hacker podcast, we feature longtime CRO, Dave Govan to chat about complex negotiations and sales cycles in enterprise sales.

One, two, one, three, three, Poe high folks, welcome to the Sales Hacker podcast. We'reexcited about our new sponsor. This episode is being brought to you by outreach, the leading sales engagement platform which triples the productivity of sales teams and empowersthem to drive predictable and measurable revenue growth by prioritizing the right activities and scalingcustomer engagements with intelligent automation, outreach makes customer facing teams more effective and improvesvisibility into what really drives results. Thousands of customers, including cloud era,glass door, Pandora and Zillo, rely on outreach to deliver higher revenue forSales Rep without further ado, let's get on with the show. I everybody. Welcome to the sales hacker podcast. It's your host, Sam Jacobs.I am delighted to have on today's show a good friend of mine, someoneI consider a mentor, a founding member of the New York revenue collective andjust an all around great guy and one of the most respected sales leaders inthe New York Metropolitan area. So we've got Dave Govan. He's a VPof sales currently for pentaha solutions, which is part of Hitachi e Ventara.But really quickly, let me tell you Dave's background, his very impressive backgroundover the last must be more than twenty years, but he'll tell us.First he ran his own and consulting from G to strategic advisory services before joiningPintaho. He's also been chief for Revenue Officer at dynamic yield, at salethrough he was svp of North America at Veri sign he was svp of salesand professional services at JE software. He was an area VP earlier in hiscareer at net perceptions in the personalization space, and he's also been a kick asscontributor at Oracle and at DC. So welcome Dave to the show.Thank you, Sam. It's great to be here. We are excited tohave you, my friend. So why don't we start off really quickly withyour baseball card so that everybody that's outside of the New York Tri State areacan get to know you a little bit. So your name is Dave Gov andgive us your title? Sure, I'm a VP of sales at HatachiVentara for pentahoe solutions. So how big is Hitachi and how big is sortof your purview for Penta home. So the TACHI VENTARA is a four billiondollar technology company headquartered in Santa Clara and we are part of Hatachi Limited,which is an eighty two billion dollar global conglomerate. That's big. And howlong have you been doing a the startup thing? How or at least thesales leadership thing? Sales leadership twenty years. Have had a really exciting mix ofearly stage companies and public companies. You know, it's always interesting forpeople that are earlier in their career if they want to be cro at placeslike sale through, where we've had a guest, cassie young, who youknow, and places like dynamic yield. We always like to know how yougot there. So tell us your origin story. Tell us where you camefrom and how we ended up speaking on the phone today. Sure, so, I'm actually from outside the industry. I'm from a family that I grewup in a busy family restaurant environment in a rural part of New Jersey onthe border of Pennsylvania and decided to take a different life path than I thinkmy parents desired and went off to college and earn a degree in marketing andcomputer science and was always very excited about technology, so hence I joined atech industry quite a while ago. was really focused on the people aspect ofthe business and really love the commercial side, so I went into tech sales.So what was your first job out of school? So I joined deckwhen I was really young. At the time it was the second largest computingcompany in the world and we're competing with IBM and HP etc. At thetime it was probably around eight billion a year when I joined and when Ileft it was around fourteen billion, and we use selling mainframes. Is thatright? What was the thing that you were selling? What? Deck revolutionizedthe industry with servers. Really IBM was known for mainframes and as a severalother companies. A deck was a pioneer...

...in the space, sort of likethe Google of its day, and had brought around Ethernet and client server andlots of really great innovations. We had about a two billion dollar professional servicesbusiness, around a three billion dollar software business and the rest was servers,hardware, storage, printers etc. I was really fortunate. I was kindof looked out in that I wound up in large enterprise sales as a veryyoung person and went through an extensive training being period there six months in thefield and in classroom training. It couldn't have been a better starting ground forme in terms of learning the tech industry. Do they have strs back then?Sort of? How did they bring you into the organization? YEA,for the advent of kind of like the modern sales architecture. Yeah, sothey didn't really have SDRs per se. They had, you know, marketingfunctions, but they did have sales training programs. So they were always lookingfor young college graduates or folks with a couple of years of experience that theycould bring into what they call a more of like a sales development program andyou were given a role in a mentor and and an assignment and you basicallylearned and you sold and interacted with CIOS and directors in it and business,and then they invested in continually in your training and growth and, you know, you could rise to whatever level you wanted to pretty much. And thenso you went from there to Oracle. Is that right? Yes, it'salways interesting for people to hear about the path from individual contributor to ultimately tomanager. And I know after Oracle looks like that was the moment that youmade the jump to VP. So you know, walk us through that evolutionand I guess what are the things that you think you did particularly well thatenabled you to make that transition from individual contributor to manager? Sure that's agreat question. So Oracle was really starting to take off when I joined.was recruited into Oracle really like the software side of the business when I wasat deck. So it was very attractive to me and also so the reputationfor higher incomes in Oracle was pretty wellknown, which is something I was interested in, of course, and so I transitioned over to Oracle and did verywell there. I think it was with in my second year I was actuallyglobal account manager of the year. I received an award for an Oracle's executivecommittee. So I showed a lot of I had been selling for a while, you know, I was at deck for eight years and so I hada lot of experience that was very relevant and I was able to translate thatexperience at Oracle, as well as my large account relationships and really, youknow, hits tride there. I also learned a lot at Oracle really about, you know, software business practices and and you know, the sort ofsales process side of enterprise software sales, and so it went really well andI always had a desire to grow in my career and I really like servingothers and any effective leader knows that the end of the day it's really allabout your team and your customers, and so I had the mentality and Ithink that my management recognize that. So, coming off of like a really greatyear, I received a double promotion to a regional manager level. It'slike a first level VP, and I was pretty young at the time.I didn't really have much training in the way of management or leadership alf thattime, but I just jumped into the roll and ran at it. That'sgood. Well, you're there at Oracle. HOW LONG WE AD Oracle? AndI guess you know, one of the things that's always interesting is theygive you that double promotion and then you know fast for Ward and time andyou're at places like sale through and dynamic yield, which are more classically whatwe would, I guess, consider startup companies. Obviously Oracle is not astartup. So how did you think about making the transition from, you know, big company to start up? And now now you're back into big companyagain? Walk US through. You know there's a lot of folks out there. There are that are working for early stage companies and thinking about how tomanage their careers. How do you view the differences between a big company anda startup and one of the advantage is disadvantages of each and how do youmake your way through all of those decisions?...

So is that Oracle for five yearsin total? The answer your first question and and I'll just answer yourother questions kind of in one complete answer. So any business that I've led I'vealways kind of just looked at it as an entity. Right, whetherthe entity is part of a large corporation or whether it's part of startup,it has its own unique needs and requirements and what I try to do isbasically do a bit of planning up front to make sure that that organization istargeted at the right sort of prime suspects and the right segmentation for what isbeing sold. And that principle applies and large companies and applies and small company. So targeting is the first really key where you're going to focus your peopleand your resources and then, secondly, what what's the messaging you're going tomarket with? Often in large companies the messaging exists and you just have tocustomize it a bit for your particular target, vertical or Geo or what, oraudience level from a title perspective. And in startups you have to createthat messaging or work with marketing people to optimize it. And then it's thequestion of how hiring great people. Same need in both situations, large orsmall. You have to have great people on your team, training them,supporting them, being in the game with customers, helping move sales opportunities forwardand in an all those sort of back office approvals, contracts, all ofthat. So you would find actually much more commonality between large companies and startups. That I think is obvious. There are pros and cons, to answeryour last question, of working in each type of environment and I can gointo that more detail if you want, but I see a lot of commonalitythere. Tell us the pros and cons because again, lots of folks arethere in the world are coming out of school and their SDRs at early stagecompanies and then they move up to a kint executives and they never get thekind of true classical enterprise sales training that you get but from your perspective,what do you think the pros and cons are? Sure well, you justmentioned one of them. Training. Larger organizations tend to have more resources totrain younger people and I've met many really talented, highly intelligent young people thatwhen they receive professional training they really excel and you can tell the people whohave been trained versus not trained. So training is definitely one key resource andanother is actually sort of breath of opportunities. When you work in a large companyit's not actually much easier to get meetings for, you know, foryour teams to get in front of customers. We're all competing for their time andif you're not good at that, you're still going to struggle, whetherin a large company or small company. But having a brand is very helpful, there's no question about it, when it comes to sort of the vendorviability, vendor credibility, sale. People really make the difference there, andso in a start up you have to have people on the leadership team aswell. It's on your staff who can establish personal credibility, professional credibility,instead of just that kind of large brand credibility. So those are some ofthe differences I've experienced it's political and both environments. So I think there's abit of a misperception that, you know, there's less politics and startups and I'veexperienced heavy politics and startups and also in large companies. I think thatcollaboration and teamwork also exists in both environments. I've seen it fairly equal. SoI think there's just a lot of sort of, you know, morein common than there is a different about it. I would say one ofthe main difference too, with large companies is the indirect channel. So mostlarge companies have established partners which can be very critical to the success of thesales organization or any organization that's looking to move forward in terms of satisfying customers, professional services, sales, Presales, etc. So that's definitely an advantage, a distinct advantage in a large companies having a formal alliance program partners.Usually there are quite a few people that...

...actually their full time job is tomanage that business in help sales link with partners and work opportunities etc. Andthat typically doesn't exist or it's nascent in a startup. But each job I'vefound fulfilling. I found it very fulfilling in startups collaborating and breaking new groundfor the first time and, you know, helping founders execute on the milestones withthe board, and then in large companies as well, just helping myorganization and working and teeming with other organizations to win, it a strategic opportunitiesor accounts or compete and win. So I've enjoyed both. That makes sense. You mentioned something that's interesting to me you. So there's politics and bothtypes of organizations. I think there's a lot of different definitions out there forwhat politics means. What does it mean to you? To me, politicsare basically biases and opinions and interaction between people that are a distraction to theprimary objective of the function or the people. So it's sort of like the humanlike. We're all human, we're all imperfect and certain ways. Soit's those imperfections that come out where people form alliances or biases or whatever thatbasically sometimes work against the common good. That's how I would describe it.To your point, I think the easiest definition I use tends to be whendecisions are made on non objective basis and that, because it's relative to preference, is not you know, I like this person more than that person now, because we have a metric that we're measuring. Yes, I think that'swell put. The thinking about starters, because you just you've, you know, you've worked at a lot of them and you've seen some succeed and somefail. What are some of the biggest lessons you've learned from your time atstartups, in high growth companies? All, there's so many I could talk fordays. Mean it's really this a ton of them. I can talkabout what I've seen contribute to success versus failure. If that you think's relevant, I think that would be very relevant. Yeah, it seems like when startupsget going there, you know they're heavily focused on the core product orin a products right, and that's natural because obviously come up with an ideato innovate in society or in business, and someone has a brilliant idea andthen gets funding, and that person often is a product oriented person or anengineer or someone like that. But there's this whole other commercial aspect that isheavily dependent on a strategy, and the strategy is executed through something called amarket map, and the market map starts with the voice of the customer andthen goes through about five or six aspects all the way through to marketing andsales execution, and anyone listener can google it and see a classic market map. But I've consulted for dozens of startups and have worked in several and everysingle case the market map was not there. Some of the concepts within the marketmap were there, but overall the market map was not in existence.And the market map actually keeps you honest. It's like a nautical chart. Ifyou're sailing somewhere, you chart it out in advance and that's the courseyou're taking. Of course you make adjustments for a weather but for the mostpart that's the course and without that it's very easy to stray off course.And that doesn't mean you don't create a new course sometimes if you discover somethingalong the way that's, you know, more exciting and bigger. Like.I totally get that. But even when you do that, you should stillgo back and create a new market map or revise your market map. Sotrying to get somewhere without a market map in the whole front office aspect isreally problematic. So I think the companies that have been really successful or theones who have that one. Are the most important elements of the market mapwhen you see companies go off track? Is it that they haven't defined theirideal customer profile? Is that the messaging is off? I'm sure all ofthere's a million factors that contribute, but are there one or two that arethe most critical to get right? I think it's really the starting point,with the voice of the customer and because...

...you think about it this way andless what you offer addresses acute pain, for someone in power it's not goingto succeed. So someone in power and a business has to be able tofeel that well, if I spend time and money on, you know,evaluating this and buying this solution, it's going to resolved this acute pain orhelped me growing in some way. I think in many cases is people fallin love with their inventions and that's missing, and then sort of mapping out thewhole solution design to that and with like looking at competitive vulnerabilities, forexample, so you create differentiation into the solution design, etc. I thinkthat's really key. So it's in other words, the sales and marketing executionor critical. However, they're only going to be as effective as the frontend of your strategy and the front end of the strategies product development, right. Is that what you're saying? Well, it's Voice of the customer into productdevelopment, the solution design, right, and then going from there is absolutelykey, because if you misread that or make false assumptions, like Ihad a client ones who basically market tested their product in the SMB space andthen went up market immediately to enterprise and their assumptions were off because enterprise haddifferent requirements than SMB. So what they thought was really innovative and novel turnedout to be pass a to their enterprise buyers. Yeah, that's a classicmistake, which is if they were going to build an enterprise product in thefirst place, they should have started there. That's right. So have to becareful and it's not easy, right, because we're all proud of our work, right, and if developers, engineers, product people spent all thistime and effort and money getting this amazing technology together, it's easy to fallin love with it and it's, you know, their baby, and thebaby is always beautiful. But it's really important, is early as possible toget that external validation and, you know, make sure that you're on course thatway. Yeah, I agree. You mentioned something else that's super interestingthat you and I've talked about individually, which is you didn't say it thisway, but it but at the point it's clear, which is it's notjust enough to solve somebody's acute pain. You need to solve somebody's acute painthat has power in the organization. I think there's you know, there's alot of folks out there in the world that have, you know, masteredthe simple sale, which is fine, a champion get the deal done,maybe because it's a mid market deal. Yes, but the complex sale isvery, very different and you're a master of it. Walk the audience throughsome of the key elements, the power components and how to think about buildingpreference for a solution at the enterprise level, because you've done it so well andso repeatedly. Sure it's actually more straightforward than one way to think.It takes a lot of just basic empathy and common sense, but a littlebit of planning, not a lot, so a little. You know,the first guiding principle, and it's a mantra that I created years ago,which is the only plan that matters is powers plan. So you can askanyone in my organizations and over the years and they'll laugh and chuckle and tellyou they've heard that a million times, but it's really true. The onlyplan that really matters when you're selling to a enterprise is powers plan. Everyoneelse's plan doesn't matter because power is the ultimate decision maker and improver of youropportunity right of your contract. So you have to make sure that you arein a situation where you can gain access to power and you can verify allthe different conversations that your team has had with other people with power. Gettingback to the point, with complex sales you can boil it all down toa very straightforward approach. So in my organization, for example, first thingI ask them to do is make sure they haven't qualified opportunity. We usemedical to do that and that that's a really good filter. So you havethat filter really quickly, Dave, only...

...because you know got a lot ofnewbies out there. What is medical? Tell us what medical stand for.So it's an old qualification, you know, acronym, but it basically it's metricsthat your solution satisfies the metrics that a buyer and their power wants toachieve. It's the economic buyer. So you've gained access to the economic buyer, which in this case I'm using. You know, this lie term power. It's the decision process that you've identified, the decision criteria, it's the identificationof pain, is having a champion and then a linkage to the business. And there's a few filters out there. I you know, back in theday at the very assigned we use value prompters, pain fit, valuepower and plan, which is similar. I think medical takes it a littlebit further. So you just want to make sure your opportunities are qualified forthat and that's an ongoing process. It doesn't happen in one conversation. Ittakes, you know, multiple conversations and meetings and to filter based on that. But that's only part of it. That still doesn't really get to complexsale selling or power based selling. After that then you have to the nextstep, which is pretty straight coward is. You have to map out the stakeholders. So the stakeholders are, who are the individuals that are involved?What's their job title, and then really take a objective look at their preferencefor your solution, the power level they have in the decisionmaking process for thisproject right, any particular agendas, business agendas that you've been able to identify, and then the pain type that these different individuals are experiencing, for examples, at operational pain, is it financial pain? Is a strategic pain,etc. Imagine a matrix that you map out with these individuals now, inthe very beginning, there's many answers. You don't know, so you justleave a blank column, blind spots, whatever you want to do there,but just note that those blind spots need to be filled in at some pointbecause if you're going to go about the process of influencing the preference across thispower base, you have to know who the targets are right like who areyou going to actually reach out to and figure out where they are? Andthen the third step is the plan, the actual complex sales plan, youknow, the power based selling plan. I will hold in where you're nowtaking actions as a team, not an individual, but your leveraging your manager, your leveraging your vp of sales, your leveraging your head of consulting,your and leveraging your CTEO. You're leveraging your founder, a CEO, maybeyour coos a larger company, whatever the power base is your se's for sure, and you're basically the account executives acting as a quarterback, so to say, mapping that team into the power base and brokering meetings with, you know, sea level people, with C level people and VP's with VPS, justto gain a perspective on where those customers are coming from, like what theirdesires are for this particular project, and then to influence them toward what you'reselling or, if they're like too far gone and they're married to the competitionfor some reason, and neutralize them just, you know, agree to disagree andmove on. So there's this whole selling process of working through that.Now we don't do that on, and I don't recommend anyone does that onevery single sales opportunity. If you have a simple opportunity where really there's twoindividuals involved, a buyer and their manager, and it's a lower average order value, you don't need to go through all that. But if you havea strategic opportunity where you're cracking an account for the first time, open orit's a larger, you know, order value, then it's absolutely worth takingthe time to map out a strategy and a plan and team sell into thatenvironment. In this is like a tried and true approach. We used itrecently in my organization and basically generated an incremental half a million dollars and inlicense support and services off of a customer who wasn't really looking to do muchmore with us because the account executive got...

...to power, brought me in,brought the head of consulting in, brought as manager in, had the rightEssy's involved in, identified a strategic opportunity and then work the power base accordinglyand was able to close an incremental half a million dollars, which we normallywould not have had it had he not followed this approach. One of thenon obvious dimensions of this process, or at least it's not obvious to me, is how you think about the different types of pain and how there's certaintypes of pain that actually aren't interesting enough for for a solution to be implemented, meaning a sale to be made. Walk US through that framework. Yeah, that's an astute observation on your part. So, unfortunately, much of oursales training is feature based. You sort of newer reps memorize all thefeatures and capabilities and then it's like an actor who's done a great job ofrehearsing. They get on stage and they kind of just, you know,tell what they know. But unfortunately many of the power players that you callon they actually don't have operational pain that's linked to those features. So intechnology many of the features link to operational solving operational pain. But if youmove up stream, there could be cultural pain, there can be financial painand then strategic pain. It's easy to define those types of pain because thereit's just business, right. So you know, strategic pain is, Hey, I'm losing market share to my head my chief competitor because my organization movesslower. So if your solution helps them gets information faster and get better insightinto the decisions they're making to compete, maybe deliver product faster, you know, innovate in rd quicker, increase their pipeline in Rd, than you're actuallygoing to affect strategic pain right. And sometimes the pain's financial, which isthe CFO or controllers pain. Hey, I'm bleeding here, I'm losing asignificant amount of money. In your solution happens to reduce cost internally significantly.And then cultural pain is hey, I have you know, in some casesyou might have a situation where there's a lot of bias in my company andthere's a lot of harassment issues and I need to really deal with that,and you might be selling something that helps educate people on dealing with unconscious biasand educates them to become upstanders when it comes to diversity and inclusion. Rightthat. That's an example of addressing cultural pain. And, of course,operational pain is what it is. It's it's like, Hey, you know, it takes us too long to execute x and Y, or this productis not getting the job done for me. Their gaps here and there, youknow, what have you. There's million examples of that. Yeah,and then part of your point, if I'm not mistaken, as operational painis typically experienced by people that may be champions but don't actually have a lotof decisionmaking authority within the organization. That's absolutely right on, and that's whymany opportunities die on the vine, because the sales team is done an amazingjob of linking with operational pain, but there's a gap at the senior levelwith power because they haven't been able to translate how that solving that operational painactually will address financial or strategic pain for the CFO or for the CEO orchief risk officer or whoever. The job is basically to realize you have amixed audience who have different types of pain and you need to translate your solutionto each audience type so that you're communicating to each audience in their own languagethe benefits of how you address each of those different pain types. That's whenyou have a hundred percent alignment and in can't lose. Yeah, that makesa lot of sense. That's really, really helpful. So you know,you've been doing this a little while, not too long. You're not thatold. You're pretty young. You're young the heart. Thanks. Check isin the mail. Same thanks. Oh Dude, go on, you're dancingwith a drink in your hand. So...

...what advice? You know you're reflectingback on last twenty years. Obviously you have a point of view on thingsthat have helped you and things that have not helped you. What advice wouldyou give to the folks that are starting off in their careers? Sure,I've been listening to Hamilton a lot, like recently, the soundtrack, andwhen Burg gives Hamilton Advice, which is talk less, listen more and Ithink that's very valid for folks who are coming up right and I've was guiltyof it back in the day and sometimes I'm still guilty of it. ButI think the opportunity to listen and learn from customers and board members and investorsand management and colleagues is just, you know, such a valuable asset tous that I think that's an opportunity that really we don't want to waste,you know, just being able to gain the perspective of others and observe thatbefore we stress our points of view. And I think also, just likeI mentioned it before, professional training and experience. I'm so enthused by theyounger members of my organization and also that I meet in the industry, andone of them asked me recently what would you recommend I do, and Isaid, well, first of all, you're doing incredibly well already. Thisperson I has closed around as a founder, probably he's probably in his late tos early S, and closed around for a hundred nineteen million dollars recently. That's a very large rounk. Yeah, you're doing tremendous already. The onlything I can think of is really invest in professional training in any gapareas that you have an experience like, for example, negotiate contract negotiation orvalue based selling or effective presentations or whatever. It is right. Just invest inthe professional training because it's worth it. It will pay off in your career. And then, secondly, they put yourself in situations where you canhave as many experiences as possible. I think that is really key to growing. I couldn't imagine what my life would be like now if I didn't havethe opportunity to have all the different types of experiences I've had to date.It's just been invaluable to me. So raw talent and high intelligence are amazingassets, but they're not substitutes for professional training and real world experience. SoI always encourage folks to do that. That is a point well made.I've got some fairly tactical questions because again, I think there's a lot of folksout there that are run in, you know, fifteen, maybe afiftyzero dollar deals and they always aspire to the enterprise. But you know,it's rare that we get somebody with your experience that we can just ask thequestions to. So, organizational design, we don't need to know how manypeople are in your org, but you know, what are some ratios,like? What are the roles that you have that you go to market withthat help you execute your plan? So let me answer that from a startup perspective, because I think that would be more relevant. When I'm hiredas a startup CRRO. I need to establish a Leegen function, I needto establish some type of field marketing, because I firmly believe events are oneof the most critical, most effective ways to actually engage with the right audience. I think there was a statistic recently from Gong Dot Ioh used to befive to seven attempts to engage with a prospect and now it's up to eightto thirteen attempts. To think about that for a second. Eight to thirteenattempts per SDR per ae to get a suspect to engage. That's a tremendousamount of effort. I think if we're able to get really hyper targeted whenit comes to smaller events that you know like the I'm a big fan offor a dinners and those types of events, and, you know, Boutique Conferences, I think that that that goes a long way. Not that willstop the you know SDR function by any means, but it's just, youknow, another way to do it. So there has to be that.In addition to legion. There has to...

...be a good field of marketing effort. You know, when you're bootstrapping a company, then of course, dependingon the technology you're selling, you may need se's. So certainly you needyou need reps right and depending on what you're selling, you could need se'ssales engineers, you know, technical engineers who can interact with customers, whohave a sales attributes. Depending on how technical your solution is, that willdetermine the ratio. So I've gotten away with like one, see two fora e's in less technical sales and then in more technical sales one to oneratio se to Rep. what's your STRD AE ratio? So usually I thinkone ae to to SDRs or two, three SDRs is really a good range. I've stretched it to for and that has caused a lot of stress andI wouldn't recommend that. And again it depends on them, the nature ofYour Business and how much money you can you can invest, and then salesoperations once you get going. You know, when you're we're starting to roll,then you need a good sales operations person. I think in the beginningyou could outsource that. There are a lot of quality subcontractors around who canhelp you with your here crm capability. But you got to get going rightaway. Some companies make the mistake of not paying attention to it till liketwo or three years in and then it's just just like crazy Gordian not thatyou have to try to cut through and figure out. It just like reallycauses a lot of pain. So you're better off starting and having a professionalhelping you there in the part time. So those are really the core functions. In some models you don't need professional services, you just need like reallygreat customer success, and in other models you need customers success and you needprofessional services consultants to go on site and implement. So those are two othercritical, you know sort of front office functions that you need. And thenwhen you get going in larger than you look at renewals, and so theway I've always approached that as I've had strategic renewals handled by field a easeand I've had kind of, you know basic renewals handled by renewals manager andand then at adding a team as time goes on. So those are Idon't think I'm leading out any functions. Some former team members might yellop meif I do, but I think I covered them all. That would implythat they're all listening, which would be great given all of your experience.Some really quick sort of specific questions. What percentable pipeline do you think inae should generate on their own at the enterprise as level? So you knowyou've mentioned to me before. If I'm not mistaken, your version of enterprisewe're looking at a quote of maybe two point four million, if I'm notmistaken correct. One percent of their pipeline should come from them doing out reachon their own versus their SDRs or marketing. How do you think about pipeline contribution? As much as we can get from marketing or, you know,SDRs, the better off we're going to be. But it's often just notthe case. So I mean realistically, what I've seen is anywhere from twentyfive to thirty three percent coming from those functions in the balance of the burdenbeing on the account exacts. There's just no in large enterprise be to bethere's just no substitute for that type of account executive that can actually call onpower, call on midlevel managers, call on, you know, evaluators,and find projects and find opportunities and get introductions from partners or other colleagues orpeople that they've known before. It just doesn't seem like there's a substitute forthat. Obviously, as a sales leader I would love their contribution burden topipeline to be as low as possible so that they're just focused on qualifying andand managing opportunities and winning them. But it's really just hasn't been the casethat I've seen in startups and large companies. You know, I think back atway back in the day when I was at Oracle and things have changed. I've been out of there a long time, but the primary burden wason the field to generate pipeline and and I think it's pretty common across thelarge companies today. That makes a lot of sense. Last question before wesort of get into some final parting words...

...of wisdom. But if you're thinkingabout your text act, we're always comparing notes. So you know we don'twant to be negative and any way want to celebrate the great companies that arepartners of yours. So what are the companies that are in your text act? What are some tools that you really can't live without? Sure in mytext ACC I have slack, outreach, sales forcecom exactly, greenhouse, linkedin. It's a tough question on what I couldn't live without. Really appreciate allthose technologies and you know, in other ones I'm considering right now, Iwould say honestly, probably linkedin. If I think about power based selling,you know, complex sales, and the amount of intelligence we gain from Linkedin, that seems like a critical asset that we couldn't we couldn't live without.Obviously we're, you know, heavy users of all the other office automation,email, texting, etcetera, but the I think of that account intelligence and, you know, persona intelligence that we get about suspects on Linkedin, companynews, the ability to connect with people. That just seems like a killer APPfor us right now. Or good I like linked into on their oftenin the dating my legion of followers with annoying statements. I'm one of them. Yeah, well, thank you buddy. It's okay, I enjoy it.Throw me alike every once in a while last question. You know,a content that you consume that you know makes you better, or books you'rereading or podcast you're listening to or methodologies? What are some if we want tokeep following the bread come trail and, you know, get as good asDave Govan or get some new ideas plant us in some directions? Yeah, I read all the time. I tried it. Like I subscribe tothe feeds that are coming across social media for different types of businesses and sectorsyou're in. So I would say that the first rule of thumb if you'rein a particular market, obviously you know brainer you should follow people who arewriting in that space and and receiving the latest goings on about that space.I'll also do listen to Bloomberg quite a bit as well when I'm driving around, and I think that gives you a healthy kind of global view and domesticview of what's going on in the greater economy. So when you are callingon sea level VP level people, you're aware of the general trends and youknow happenings in the virus industries that are out there. So I find thatthat that's kind of a really good media source for variety of information on froma Bloomberg perspective, Bloomberg Radio Perspective. For personal pleasure. I actually tryto avoid technology just to give some balance in my life. So I don'treally read a lot about tech. I'll read occasionally some primer books, butmost of my reading is really about his three and I really enjoy there's anauthor, Ronchreau, writes biographies. I'm reading a book now on Ulysses sgrant, which is fascinating but it is great and I heard the new grantbiography is amazing. He's one of my favorite people. Yeah, it isawesome, awesome listen. Dave, thank you so much for contributing to thePODCAST. I think the lessons that you've imparted around the complex sales process andhow to really deliver an enterprise sales methodology that works are incredibly valuable for thelisteners. So thank you so much for participating and I'm sure I will seeyou very, very soon at future gatherings of the New York revenue collective.Thanks Sam. It's been awesome spending some time with you. I think thisis great and really enjoy these podcasts, so I encourage everyone to listen tothem. They're very informative. So thanks again for your time and have agreat rest of your day. I will one last thing, Dave. Ifpeople want to get in touch with you, are they allowed to a is thatokay? And if so, maybe because you're hiring or maybe because they'reseeking mentorship or for any reason. What's the best way to do it?What's your preference? Sure, few choices. Can Friend me on Linkedin. It'sDay of Govin, and just mentioned the podcast and I'll be happy toaccept can reach out to me via Gmail,...

DJ Govin, Geo va n atgmailcom. So those are two choices. Awesome. Thank you so much.I'll talk to you soon. Sounds Great. Thanks. Take care.Hey, folks at Sam's Corner, I meant it when I said that DaveGovan is a big and fluence on me and a big mentor, and alot of the processes that we've designed here at behaviors have been strongly influenced bydate. So I think he said something and I reiterated it in the conversation, but I want to underscore it. We talk a lot about pain,but there's different types of pain. An operational pain tends to sit within andbelow the power line, and so what I mean is that the people thatexperience sort of inefficiencies in their daily workflow, that is not always important enough forthe CEO or a sea level executive at an organization to sign off on. And you really need to figure out what is the pain that the powerhas that the solution can solve. And, as day've mentioned in the PODCAST,the the only plan that matters is powers plant, which means that many, many times in an enterprise sale a deal can get killed because you've gota champion below the power line. It's enamored of the solution or the product, but that enamerization, if that's a word, doesn't appeal or doesn't speakto the goals of the C suite, and those are the goals that aremost important for your solution to impact, because that those are the people thathave the money to sign the check to pay you for what you're trying todo. So think about moving above the power line and speaking to pain thatresonates with the C suite in the organization if you're working on an enterprise sale. Thanks so much for listening. To check out the show notes, seeupcoming guests and play more episodes. From our incredible line of the sales leaders. Visit Sales Hackerd a calm podcast. You can find us on itunes orGoogle play, and if you enjoyed this episode, please do share with yourpeers on Linkedin, twitter or elsewhere. We always love it when we seepeople sharing content and telling their friends. We've been growing every month, sowe're super excited about it. Thank you and finally, special thanks again tothis month sponsors at outreach. See more at outreach dot ioh forward, saleshaacker. Finally, finally, if you want to get in touch with me, find me on twitter at Sam f Jacobs, which, unfortunately for you, may be overburdened with political and Washington capitals related tweets. But if youwant professional correspondence, find me on Linkedin at linkedincom in slash Sam f Jacobs. I'll see you next time.

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