The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

18. Setting Up the Right Sales Onboarding Plan w/ Roderick Jefferson

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This week on the Sales Hacker podcast, we feature Roderick Jefferson, a leader in the sales enablement space to talk about sales enablement and onboarding new sales reps. Tune in!

One two one: Three: Three FO welcome to the Sales Hacker podcastfolks this week on the sales hacker podcast, we're excited that we've gotnot one, but two amazing sponsor. So this episode is episode. Eighteen andwe're going to be interviewing, Roderick Jefferson. It was a greatinterview and I'm excited to share it with you guys. But first let me tellyou about our sponsor, so the first is air call. I've talked about them beforethei Ar fone system designed for the modern sales team. They seamlesslyintegrate into your crm, eliminating data entry for your reps in providingyou with greater visibility into your team's performance, Forgh, advancereporting and when it's time to scale you can add new lines and minutes anduse incall coaching to reduce ramptime for your new reps, so visit ere, Caldat,IO, forwardsales hacker to see why Uber Donam, Bradstreet, hipe drive andthousands of others trust air call for the most critical sales conversations.I can also tell you from my conversations with the team over therethat they are scaling very, very quickly and really just doing anincredible job. Our second sponsor is a company guys, probably no outreach I'llreached aut io the leading sales engagement platform, they triple theproductivity of sales teams and Ir Rech empowers them to drive, predictable andmeasurable Revan growth by prioritizing the right activities and scalingcustomer engagements with intelligent automation. Outreach makes customerfacing teams more effective and ipproves has ability into what reallytries results so hop over to outrage. DEDIOE forwark by sales sacker to see athousands of customers, including Cloudera glasstor, Pandora Ansolo,Relian, Ou, reache e iver higher revenue for sales rap finally want togive us some shoutouts to some of the folks that are listening out there. AsI mentioned, the podcast has been growing, every week's been bigger thanthe last, so that's been exciting and thank you so much for everybody. That'slistening and sending me your comments and send me your questions. A couplepeople that I want to specifically think right. Now, Granmo Gallagher fromblue cat was hoping for a conversation, an episode about negotiation, ofdpricing, which we will happily do John Austin who's, the CEOOF Talligen. Hementioned to me that I remind him of Michael Barbarow from the daily at TheNew York time. So obviously, that's amazing. Thank you. John Atokfan who's,a sales ripp signpost to love the SI signpost the company and he's startinghis own podcast, so be on the lookout for that Narmor Doyle, who's, anaccount executive at sales force who loved the dantink episode. Thank you.Narmer Bruce Bignell from hi datametrics who listens Dow over inLondon and a bunch of other great folks, Rogan Miles, Bryan Smith junior fromhigher velocity, whose hosted the launch pad and Jocelyn Donland fromCONFORMA. So that's amouthful, but it's a lot of folks and again, if you're outthere and you're listening and you have question you have some feedback, youwant to hear a different format. Please let me know we listen to our fans here and welisteed listeners and I want to get better. So I want to make sure thatwe're responsive, but without further ado, thanks for bearing with us, let'slisten to episode. Eighteen with rogerick Jefferson, everybody welcome to the Sales Hackerpodcast. We're really excited about our show today. My guess today is RogerJefferson and he's the CEO of Roger Jefferson and associates. We take it.That is his own. Consulting firm he's, an acknowledged thought leader in thesales enablement space and he's got twenty years of leadership. Experience,building enablement organizations across the enterprise in SMB universe,he's won a bunch of awards, including the two thousand and fifteen sales onboarding program of the year by serious decisions. He's one of the foundingmembers of the sales, an eblement society and he's a member of severaladvisory boards, including Capella University and celeration. So rogickwelcome has en thanks a lot appreciate, thanks for having me on. So you knowwhat we like to do, just to sort of like get things started as tounderstand a little bit more about you and get a little bit of what we callyour baseball card. So, let's start off tell us what is Roger Jefferson andassociates. So we are a consulting firm, focused on small medium size, businessin that kind of tend a five hundred million dollar range, and what we focuson is really helphy to drive...

...consistency, repeatable and Scal ulpractices that lead to increase Forrevedu, so focused on speed torevenue on the front side on the cells consulting piece also, we have a focuson leadership and executive coaching and finally, the third arm of the chair,if you will, is focused on Keno speaking, okay, so you guys are doing alot of different things and then ten to five hundred million is a very widerange. So, first of how long have you been doing this on your own? So we arein your one prior to that for those twenty years. I was in corporate in anumber of different companies and got to a point where felt like it wasreally time to step out to hang that shingle and move towards the pieces.Ofve enablemet that I absolutely loved and put some of the corporate things onthe shelf for a while. Congratulations: I've done the same thing in the pastand it it's always fun to build your own business. So, twenty years, a lotof folks in the audience that are coun executives, that are sales managersthat are always thinking about their career and managing their career in theright way. So what's your background, where you from and where'Di you grow up,and how did we get from there to hear sure originally from Texas, Louisanaarea grew up in the south, so very different from San Francisco Bayrea,where I live, theday after school came out this way and started working insales, so I am first and foremost the Sales Guy Carrid, a bag for five yearssales leadership as well and got to a point where had done really well wentto presidents club a couple of times what company was this? I, with ATT Oho,okay, cool and win presidents club and realize that I really love the processof selling and so from there I moved into it that time it sells trainingwell and was able to take some of the processes and tools that I hade come upwith, which were very infantile back then and replicated and scale, and fromthere created my own small niche in the training space and from there moved andsince then, in my career I have either run or grass rooted, sells, ta able,MIT at Sebil systems, network, appliance business objects, HP, Ebay,cells, force, Oracle and Marquett almost recently wow. So all reallyreally big companies and what you were doing there was building enablementprocess sales trainings that right, actually what I was doing was buildingthe team because an I love when people say: Oh, those are great large logos.When I came to see theut, we were two hundred and Eihty people, so very smallorganization, and that's why I decided to work in that SMB space at. I thinkthe DOTS will start to connect a bit when I went to sales force. I came inthrough an acquisition of a small little tiny company called Jigsaw thatbecame Datacom and I remember Chicksa Yeah Yeah and we're finally intograteit into selfs force. When I came into Oracle, I came in through the OracleMarketing Cloud. I was a team of me and so and when I came into Marcuettosimilarly, I came in built the organization helped as a part of theleadership team to kind of craft messaging positioning, etc, and it justblossom from there. So is it accurate to say that sort of like salesenablement is really like the main thing that you're focused on right now,absolutely I'd say: That's my priary focus so we were just had. We were at aa dinner of the New York revenue collective couple nights ago, and wewere talking about what is the definition of sales enablement. So I'mcurious on what your definition is, because I think there's folks out therethat sort of lump it into operations. Sometimes people are talking aboutassembling the sales technology stock. How do you define it? It's interestingin Seltatawil e become a very, very sexy term. All of a sudden and a lot oforganizations have grabbed on to it. Youre right it could be sales ops. Insome cases it could be product marketing. In other cases. Now mydefinition and I'll say that, because if you ask ten people you're going toget twelve definitions and that's actually why we started the sales, analiment society was to get a clear definition and a charter for SelesNablement, and so my definition is really helping getting sells. Teamsinto the right conversation the right way with the right tools and we helpthem to break the complexity. Ofsells an ablement into practical ideasthrough scalable repeutable processes...

...that ultimately lead to increase reidyand that's the bottom line, is what are we helping to do to move the needlefrom the onboarding all the way through the tools and then stepping into thecontinuing education piece so sell? Alment is an ongoing occurrence, not asingle bit, what, if you're going into an organization and your and they justpurchase, grogic Jefferson and associates, and there's a really widerange of possible activities that you can develop to implement sales andablement? Where do you start what are sort of like the top two or threefunctions, or areas of focus that you drilling on to help accelerate thatrevenue generation process? Well, there are four components, and the first isto do a overall needs analysis and audit, and that is across the multiplelines of business. That's from the executive team down, and it's also fromthe sellers, the individual contriitors up, because that gives me a wellrounded picture. Then we add in the small sprinkles of. Let me talk to afew of your customers, an we talk to some of your top sellers, some of yourmore difficult or struggling sellers. Let me talk to people in the alliancesgroup, because I want to get a well arounded picture. So that's the firstpart and then from there the analysis phase is complete. I can now moveforward and it will point me into a number of directions and thosedirections are generally one building at an onvoading program because most ofthe companies ie deal with their in hypergrowth face. So when I sayonboarding we're talking about a zero to XX program- and I say xx because foryour SDR bdrs of which that's where my career started. So I got a lot of lovefor these RS and SDRs, and so for there it's a zero to thirty day, but whenyou're talking about your Aes, your sces, your CSMS and back into the house,it's generally a sixty day and yes, I said sixty not a ninety day. I'd sayone of the things that I'm proudest of is at Marketto. We are able tostreamline time to first close from eighty eight to fifty four days. Now.Imagine the productivity you get from that. How do you do that? That is thesecret sauce that comes with Rodoc Jefferson associats, it's really quitesimple. It's listen, learn then lead, and so the next component is where westart the we got. Tho, listen got the learn now, it's time to lead and thenext piece is either tolt established an or uplevel the existing cellsablement function inside of a company and finally, the fourth component isputting in place a long term continuing education strategy, as well as thetools, the templates, the KPIS and then the associates coming to play for theexecution piece. So how does sales enablement differ from sales managementw? Where do you draw the line in the distinction? Because a lot of what youjust said feels like it's the job of the sales manager or VPF sales? To doall of those things there is a symbiotic hand and glove relationshipbetween the two. I believe that enablement is here to understand the needs of the businessand translate those into tools, templates programs, processes and then,where the sales leadership comes in is they should own the adoption in theexecution piece and then on the back end enablement circles back again toown the tracking, the metrics, the Kpis and the reporting piece so we'reworking hand in hat okay. Interesting, so is it accurate to say that yourprocess is that listen learn lead? Is that accurate or you know what ise someof the the fundamental building blocks, that you're teaching the teams when yougo in there? Well, YOU'RE! Absolutely right! You know it is the listen learn,lead philosophy that we take and where we dig in is once we understand wherethe gaps are or in some cases in a lot of cases. The silos are, then what wedo is help to collaborate communistate and then orchestrate I look at celemanas the hub that spokes out to every part of the organization. I call us thetranslators of dialects and languages and what I mean is I don't expectproduct marketing and marketing and ops...

...to all speak each other's languages,but we have to be able to speak all those to translate it into sales, speakout to our prospects and customers and then transversely to bring it back inhouse and get that feedback and be able to articulate it to each of thoseorganizations in a language that makes sense to that. Are there any specifictactics that you use to do that, and I guess the other question I have is: Doyou report in your you know, for part of the high growth hyper growthbusiness? Are you reporting up to the chief Revenue Officer? Are youreporting to the Sal? How do you view sort of like the ORG chart to make surethat the hand and glove relationships most defensive? It's actually all ofthe above and that's the great thing about being a consultant. Is Youactually have a horizontal report rather than a standard usecase ofhaving the Orang Hart so generally, I'm working with the CRO sometime, the CSor the CS, whichever they may have, we always want to make sure that the COOis included because of the offspeaces that come into place from the execution,and then I want to also alie with the CMO or whoever heads up marketing,because I look at it ablemen as the deliverers of that content, wheremarketing is generally creating that content understood. What's the truevalue of sales endablement in a growing or like how do you characterize thatvalue? How do you define it? I guess one of the ways that you justtifind, asyou mentioned, shortening the sale cycle or the time to first close fromin Marquetto, pretty significantly sounded almost like twenty O. thirtypercent. Is that how you define the sort of like the true value ofenablement? Well, I think that's a component of the value of an agment andit's a strong opponent, because we are hiading hand focused on creatingmessegme, not creating, but really ushering in that acceleration torevenue and the value I think comes from four pieces. One is the purpose ofan ablement as I outlined earlier, and that is about driving revenue. Second,is the peoplepiece: What's the right structure and talent needed to be ableto achieve that purpose? The next is the programs that we bring into placethat can be onboarding accreditation, certifications, qbrs, guided learningplans, those kind of things, and the last piece is the orchestration insideof the a given platform, and that is kind of one of the systems and toolsthat are required to really manage all of those other pieces we talked about,so it's really orchestration. So, let's dive into onboarding a little, but I'msuper interested in it because I've always I've never been very good at it.But when you think about like a perfectly design, onboarding process-and you mentioned for scrs and your perspective, so you're saying youexpect them to be fully ramped. Is that right it within thirty days? And thenyou expect account executives to be fully Ram within sixty days? Is thatdependent on a specific market segment? Is that dependsin on a specific dealsize? And what are the elements that enable to the point of enablement, oneof those people that just joined a company to be so productive in so shorta time? So let me replace fully ramped with proficient to start with, becausefully ramp is one of those funny terms that is really defined inside of a GierHouse. So I'd prefer to go with profission, and that is they have thetools, the processes, the programs and the content to be able to go out andmessage and position consistently and to be able to understand the pieces ofthe discovering qualification, as well as the messaging and positioning theinternal part or ECO system, that it takes to close his teal and then theprocesses and tools that happen once the deal closes. Now, when you sayfully ramped that depends by market second, I could have fully ramped byBDR, obviously very different than SB mit market and then a longer piece.When you look at the enterprise, because one is a volume velocity deal,one is an activity deal and another one is a relationship cell to the point oflike a great onboarding program. Is there specific learning methodologiesthat you're using is it you know it's really a classroom orientation whereyou're constantly using sort of like an online porter like minetickle, orsomething like that to do quizzes? How...

...do you think about designing it so thatwe can get to proficiency as quickly as possible? Is it multimedia? Is it allkinds of different things? Do you customize it to the client? How do youthink about it? It is a multimedia approach because there are differenttypes of learners. Yeah you've got your visuals, your cinasthetic ETCR, sowe've got to make sure that we hit all of those, but we do have a centralizedcommunication strategy that we put in place for every one of our engagements,and it goes like this. You need to have some form of content management systemin place. You need to have a learning management system in place. We want toalso make sure that you have a centralized event. Calendar you've gotreinforcement, activities that come into place, whether that becallswebanars etc. Here's another one want to make sure that you have a podcastlibrary in place because, as we know, our sellers are getting younger andyounger and the millenials that's the way they learn. So we have to go tothem. The next component is to make sure you've got leadership, coachingand finally, some form of ongoing bench marking like a serious decisions orsomething of that point. Okay, super interesting, so content managementsystem. I think that means a lot of different things for a lot of differentpeople. Are there specific, like walk me through specifically the first two,so the content management, the learning management? How are those different?I'm just ignorant, I guess- and how do they work together? No, no ignorance atall. Actually, they work hand in hand. So the content management system isabout getting the right information to the right folks at the right time. Soyou've got your decks dots and your white papers and those such that sitgenerally in that location right. Is that like buroom? Would that be anexample of like a content management platform? Is that something of thatsort? Then I you've got the learning platform or the LMS like a learncorbinticl, etc, where anythingthat you are now tracky and reporting on should sit inside of your elementsso that you have a single source and location for all of your ongoingeducational records. That makes a lot of sense. I mean what's the adoption ofthose systems at this point? Well, that's when we come in and that's firstof all phenomenal question because one of the strengths of coming in let's sayyou just purchase one of those learning platforms now you've got this. You'vegot all of this content and you have some F similims of the other tools thatI talked about. What do you do with them and how do you make sure thatthere is a orchestration between those and it flows cohesively with a handoffbetween them and it doesn't feel like I'm in my cms stop? Now I go to mylearning management system. Stop now I have to go and utilize this calendarstop. So what we do is help them put together a consistent and a contiguousflow of all those different platforms and tools, so they all play and talktogether, intrei seamless to the user. That's the key! Are you bringing asales philosophy to the whole thing? Is it are you bringing and like value baseselling like a Miller, Himan kind of framework, a challengeer sale mentality?Is there a specific underpinning philosophy that you try to introduce inthe context of deploying all these systems, or are you adapting yourapproach to whatever it is that you know the client is actually using atthe time how about both we are very, very agile and adaptive to those andthe great thing of being in Sales Abe lit for the lasttwenty five years is. I have actually instituted just about every one ofthose that you've talked about, whether it be challenger all the way back tothe old spin, and that's probably going to show my age, but everything inbetween so thereis an unterstanding there. We have a very senior team, butwe also in house have for those that don't have a sales methodology. We haveour own cells of methodology. We call agility selling so that can beinstituted alongside with the others or in place of the others. Tell us aboutagility selling bet serit's more about solving of issues, rather than reallyfocused on something like a challenger which qat onesly, I don't consider acells mechonology. I consider Thi sells approach, but there it's aboutcuriosity about continually and asking questions peech with a Jillie selling.It's about problem. Solving first...

...question we have is what problems doyou have that are now causing you pain sounds similar to every othermethodology right, the pro the difference is we approach it in areverse order, instead of starting with that problem, we start with the buyerjourney where it is that problem that you have fit into the overall buyersjourney, rather than trying to have your sales process, your self stages,fit into that buyeur journey. Let's start with the buyer and figure out howthen your cells they just fit into the overall byadry. I would imagine thatpart of what you do is take whatever they've got in in sure that it'sembedded into like a so absolutely, and then we look at the crm and make surethat's all tied together. Yeah you've been doing this, like you, said, you'resort of a pioneer in the in the sales and etheman space lik keper pioneerinstead of GRANDPA, what's changed, selling for twenty five years workingat some of these, as you said, big logos and some of the points at whichyou've joined these companies is through acquisition, so you're it asmaller company and, of course, Jiksaw was really well known back in the oldendays. How do you view sort of the approach to sales, what the buyersexperiences with all of us trying to pitch them things, and what do youthink are the themes that have evolved over the past twenty years? Twenty fiveyears, wellther refer few things. First and foremost, I think that buyers arebecause of tech. Fires are far more savvy now and further along in theirbuying cycle, by the time they actually bring in the cells repper an at that'sone. The second is: I believe that the buyers now expect you to speak theirlanguage instead of trying to have them conform to your language or yourmessaging and position. The other piece that has chained significantly are thetools that are required at one point. We would sit down for a half an hourand we'd watch a Webinar or we'd, listen to an online piece, not soanymore. Right now, the world is about what I call knowledge bites. I can nowpuil together six five minute podcast, where I can't get the typicalmillennial to sit down for half an hour. So the way that we deliver content haschanged significantly. The modalities have changed, they've, certainlyimproved, but they've changed the way that we teach and, most importantly, Ithink we are getting away from training and getting closer to en ablement, andmy philosophy is that you train animals and you enable people to the point of aknowledge bite right. We just got one. You trane animals enable people inpractice. What does that mean to you? So let me clarify that for the folksthat are out their professional trainers, because I was in that boat aswell, and I don't negate them at all, and I certainly hope they don't takethat as a disrespectful statement. THAT'S NOT THE GOAL! What I mean istraining is reactive, it's spot it's one time without a lot of jpis or Royaround it. Here's what enablement has turned into now or moving towards shit.I say it is a long term strategy. That's women into the fabric of thecompany that starts at the interview process, all the way through the lifecycle of a sales career, and it's also collaborative- and it's back to mystatement earlier. It's about listening learning, then leading, but then you come back with the theKKPIS in the Rli behind it, and you can now put hard line. Let me say thatbegin. Hardline RLI figures cannow be added to enablement activities. So whatare your favorite kpiys to justify the Rli of Iron Rogeck Jefferson andassociates? Well, I think there are two sets of KPS. First of all, the driveOui, there's one that enablement influences and those are things likeaccreditationor certification, completion, attahurates average dealsize, collaboral use of frequency pipeline created number of closed deals,product mixed by segment, obviously quota attainment, time first time torevenue or speedo revenue. First, close, there's win rate percentage, there'sattach rates, then thei' crm, Clin claing this and there's a pieces thatwe own and those are things like. The...

...accreditation passing rates. The courseassessment expectations, assessments, surveys by annual needs, aalysis quoteto anecdotal feedback and then, of course, the tracking, the metrics andthe reporting piece. If I'm, I guess a CRO, and I want to bring you guys inand I'm trying to think about how to invest an enablement, the right way-and I know that we need to design an onboarding program. I know that we needto do reinforcement. I need to sort of segment out the investment that we'regoing to make in sales and implement technology broadly to fined the way I'mgoing. No, if I had to pick two met numbers that would improve, would yousay it's sort of like win rate and deal size, or am I thinking about that? TheRight? Well, no, you've nailed. It is speed to revenue and deal size,increase Gonan so and to the point of you know again, like the evolution of Otwousand twenty five years in the explosion of tools. In the space, soyou mentioned, it sounds to me like sort of enablement heavily, you knowdepend on thinking about, like you want them to have a content managementsystem. They need to have an Lms, something like a learncore or mine,tickle or something else. What are the other key tools? I'm thinking aboutcall coaching software, I'm thinking about like cadence and smart sales,enablement software when you think about a recommended textstack as you'redoing a needs, assessment and analysis. We love it. If you pick your favoritevendors, but I'm also happen speaking generalities for fear of offendinganybody, but absolutely bender neutral. Well, you know what you've nailed mostof them. I think the only thing that you left out is insuring that there'ssome formof centralized event calendar that way. Everyone is aware of it andsells leaders can plan for this as well, and you can also work with your peopleor your HR group to make sure that you are timing. Your hiring cycles to theevents that are coming up. Do you mean like marketing events? Do you mean heywe're hosting a conference and know what I mean? Is Hiring I it spinkingfrom a sales perspective, then you can have specific hiring dates based upon.If you know you have x number of hours to complete the mandatory prework. Thatmeans you've got to bring in your cohort x number O weeks before, so theyare prepared to sell in x number of weeks as well. That's interesting andany other tools I mean there's so many new things that are emerging all thetime. Any specific categories that you think are particularly exciting. Ithink we've nailed it, but I really like is the integration of the MS and the learning tools that havebecome a single pla that are becoming a single platform like a learncore andthe showpad acquisition. That was a absolute game changer in themarketplace, because now what they've done is I can get you all of yourcontent. I A get it to the right people at the right time. Oh but wait. I canalso add in the coaching modules and components, and then finally, I can puta rapper around that and make that report DASHBOARDS etcer for the metrics,the tracking and reporting they are doing something over there. That is notbeing done anywhere else and, I dare say, disruptive Theyr, lern yeah. Theyare absolutely changing the game. I Apologize For not reading about thatacquisition, but what is Chopan no so again show pad is a tooilet platformwhereby they take all of that content from cms cms, like I would say, andthen they distributed via channels mobilely to the right audience at theright time, right content. So let me give an an example here: a Br you'reonly going to receive certain information, let's take a high levelmessaging positioning and start with discovering qualification you're onlygoing to get that component. That aligns to your particular role right,we're not giving you modules on once you close. How do you handle this inthe crm and when you're in negotiation? You have to do these pieces with leaveyou're, not doing that. So we get you the content that you need at that timealong that journey and also, let's say you change your corporate pitch bit.This is something that they can change...

...the corporate push pitch and push itout right away to all of the sellers inside of a channel rather than goingwhere's the new corporate pitch on. Where do I find it? Nolt push it out,I'm out in front of a customer. We've got a new pitch. I can sit on theparking lot, look at and go. Okay, that's what's different and they alsoallow you to take content, that's already created and then move thataround and personalize it for your given customer prospect. Wowl thatsounds very, very eliable. Yeah oilt to the point of like the differencebetween training and Anableman, is enablement and opts the same thing. IfI just hired Rob Dandor VP of global revenue, ops, that's what he is forbehavox. Is that the same thing as a VP of enablement is a different: isenablement of function of operations? Is operations a function of enablement,just getting all the terminology clear in my head? What's your point of viewon that? Again, yes and no depends on the company in my career I reported toops. However, as the enablement piece has grown over the last twenty twentyfive years, it is a standalong organization that is hand in hand andbff if you will, with Seles ops and here's. Why? Because we've got all ofthe processes, we've got all of the programs, they own the tools. So it's anatural handoff, let's start Ron, the very beginning: Marketing has thecontent, the messaging positioning, etcetera, they hand off to us for ourprocesses and our programs, we hand off Te opps to make sure that those arescalable and repeatable inside of the company selected tools got it you'reout there consulting if there's founders listening to this and thinkingabout maybe their early stage, companies thinking about hiring theirfirst batcy sales, people and beginning to scale up what are the biggestmistakes that sort of early stage companies make when it comes to revenue-and you know what is your advice to them on how they can avoid thosemistakes, assuming that, because they sold somewhere else and they weresuccessful, they would be successful. Inside of your organizusation, we haveall focused for the longest on ideal customer profile. What I've beenintroducing is I'm consulting is let's focus on the ideal employee profile now,and that's where I believe sells en ablement should be a part of theinterview process, because one we had comin it with a different set of linsesand secondly, our BS meter is much higher and thirdly, we're looking atthe propensity for long term success inside of the programs that we'rehelping to build. How do you evaluate that or a sustes that sounds like Ginna?I've heard of many other people say that, just because one person,successful at Xyz company doesn't mean they're going to be successful at thenext and, of course the nverse is true, but also that's even more challengingfor a hiring manager or sales manager to make the case for which is actuallythis person sucked and their holes. Wol t they're going to be great here. Sowhat's the framework for the interview process that helps you uncover t e theactual alignment, the way I've always explained, Itto salls leaders as whenit comes to Intervien. We can do it right, but we can do it fast, but youdon't get both. So, which way do you want it and what I mean by that is, wecan do it fast, so we can get folks in because they look great on linked inthey come in with the beautiful resume that says: they've killed this. Theywent to President's Club here etcet. Now, let's talk about right way, thatis having folks from multiple lines of business, ops, sales, maybe legal andenablement all talk to that individual yeah. Okay got multiple people talking,but at the same time what you get now is a well defined road map fromdifferent angles, with different priorities. Looking at that same personand you get that checked off, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but far lessoften do you get someone that sucks that's hard to do, because every personis everybody's busy and then the other part of it is you probably have to likeassign each of those people specific? Do you do that thing where you knowyour job is to assess this criteriou?...

This job is to assess this Greatteraand here's the score car and things like that. Absolutely and againeverybody is busy, but let's go back to my definition earlier of enablement. Itis woven into the fabric of the company, so that means that we only want tobring people in that are going to make the entire company succeptal and I'mnot saying you should have sixteen interviews, don't get me wrong right,but it should definitely be a well rounded approach. Most of the timepeople go all right. I want you to talk to the depending upon where you are inthe food chain. Of course, you're going to talk to the VPS sales you're goingto talk to a sales leader and then you're going to talk to one of yourteammates. Okay, great you just talk to three or four different people with thesame mindset. How about I want you to talk to someone from sales leadership,someone from an ablement someone from op now whut you get his diversby ofthought around that person and yes, you have individual pieces that you'relooking for and the red flags may be very different in one category thanthey are another. Would you say you need consensus? Everybody has to vote eor start the score card and you're trying to clear a certain bar and thehiring manager gets to make the final call. No, I think consensus creates toomuch complexy. U, no I've never been a fan of hiring by committee. That'swhere I think the score card comes in if they score highor here and there,and ultimately, these people all have a voice. The ultimate vote coming down tothe hiring mage we're really just giving you our input on what we'reseeing from our perspective in our lices yeah all right. This has beenreally really helpful. Do People Ever Call You rod? Am I allowed to do thator now? Would you prefer Rodrick? It's actually RJ make. I relsom that's evenbetter all right, R, J, a few more questions, so here's something thathappens to me a lot on linkedin. I get outraht R. I end up interviewing peoplebut started off in a different function, and I mean how many so many differentVPC ous, because it's really hard to major in sales. As many many peoplewteach you, and so you know they measure in political science or they were goingto be lawyers and they end up in a sales career. So I think there's a lotof people out there. They don't know how to assess themselves to see if theywould be a good fit for a sales career. What do you think are the criteria youknow if you're a young person working in product or you're, an investmentbanking, and you want to make the jump to startups. How do you self evaluateto figure out if you'd be good at sales? What are the qualities that you thinkare important? First of all, none of US major in sales. I was a radio ontelevision broadcast major how I got here still beyond me, so I do a lot ofspeaking of different colleges, an universities- and I get this question alot, and so the answer I always give is you will find six to eight jobs in yourlife. Your career will find you so if it doesn't find you right away, it'sokay, but it will find you avint now, if you want to go into sales, the thingI always tell people is start doing. The most nonthreatening activity on theplanet. Ask someone for an informational interview, I'm not askingU for your job, I'm not asking to help me get in the company. I'm asking youto tell me about you the one thing that everybody's going to talk about, but goin and make sure that you have a set plan of questions that are going tohelp you direct and navigate either left or right. When you come out ofthis conversation, it's not just hey. So tell me about your career and whatyou did it's. I have specific questions about. Tell me what your job looks like.What do you love about your job? What do you not like about your job, and Icall it the candy bar piece, and that is what would you do if you were onlypaid in candy bars in your job? Today, that's interesting! You have a point ofview on. You know the extraverd Vesus introvert versus Ambevert, obviouslythere's all this research recently that actually introverts are pretty good atsales. You know, besides informational interviews, are there sort of like waysof looking inside yourself to figure out if it's really going to be a goodmatch for you, there are, and it comes down to what segment again, if you'relooking to come in as a BDR and an ser, you need to be someone that has thepropensity to learn and not afraid to Sav these three words. I don't know youwalk in as a sponge. You will be incredibly successful as a VDR now,let's move up you're walking into a potential role that is in SNB and itsvolume valosimy. If you don't have a...

...strong attention to detail, you can't shake and move and churn quickly.That's not the role for you, because that's what you're going to be doing isworking with multiple companies, multiple clients, multiplepersonalities all at once, and you have to keep those in some kind of alignment,then keep all of the plate. Spinning in the air, if you're coming in asenterprise role whole completely different ballgame, generally arelationship cell and probably going to be more mature later in your career. Idon't know a lot of folks that come out of school and Walk Right, intheenterprise, Seles Rols. For that reason, we're expecting you to bring yourtinure your background, your knowledge and in the old term, your rolledecks oryour network these days and that's just not established yet yeah. It's reallyinteresting one last question: We always like to sort of get influencesand hear about other people books that you're reading and things like that.But you know another question that I get fairly often you made this sleepearly in your career. It sounds like I get questions from individualcontributors, there's different flavors of this question. One of them is hey,I'm being presented with the management opportunity, but I'm also beingpresented with this incredible kind of iy individual contributor opportunity-and you know how do I think about that? The second might be. I've been doingthis thing for a little while at small company I'm trying to figure out.Should I go to the big company and be midlevel, or should I you know, go tothes small company B, a vpsls, but ultimately the foundational sort ofquestion is: How do you figure out if you should make the leap to management,how emphatic you should be about moving from an individual went tributea roleto a management wall? What's your advice to people that are sort of facedwith that dilemma, or maybe they're not actually being presented with thechoice, but they're saying you know what I've been doing, the individualconexecutive thing for long enough and I'm drawing the line in the sand, andI'm just going to make myself a manager somewhere, even if it's not it whereverI'm currently employed, don't draws a lent us do not draw it line in the same.Let me start there. No, we all say by twenty four months by twelve months byeighteen months. No, it actually really comes down to what are your careergoals? What's going in Handto your quality of life? Where do you seeyourself going and do you have the network to get there? Let's go with theold addage of your net worth is determined by your network. Okay, weall know that's true, especially in sales. It's about who you know, so I'vealways looked at it from the perspective of I've done my homework.I've got the numbers that supportit I've got the right folks behind me thatare supporting me to move and do I have a mentor or a sponsor that can help meget there, and let me explain the difference. Wit e Ble to deyll know amentor is someone that speaks about you. I can get your resume and from theright person I can move you up in line. A sponsor is someone that speaks foryou, and that is the person that says they may not be ready yet, but I'mwilling to put my reputation on the line that I'm going to get themprepared to get there on, especially when you're moving to a leadership.Well, if you don't have that sponsor that will say that, for you, you're notready, that's interesting. All right so find a sponsor, ladies and Germs, bythe mentor first and because sponsors will find you in your experience. Doyou reach out of someone and you say: Will You be my mentor or do you justdevelop a relationship and then it sort of happens? I've had people reach outand say: Will You be my mentor and it feels like I'm felling a you know likea slot in like a like orkshat and then other people. I don't know whether I'mthey're mentol or not, I'm just helping them throughout the course of theircareer, because I'm friends with them and I like to help people, do you havea point of view on that yeah. It's really weird to reach out to someoneand say: Well, you be not mi towards E. Thank you for conferning, back juniorhigh thing of hey. Will you be my friend and yexactly? I think so I'llmake you foe. Youcan got I've got a strong mabe for you and when it comesto the Mentormentoyo relationship, it is organ and it will grow into that andfor me for the folks that that I am a intoor for, for I askd them a series ofquestions. When someone says I want you be my mential, I start with why me andwhat do you really know about me beyond...

...what you've read in Linghin and that'snot an arrogant statement that is have you done your hone work and the biggestpiece that I asked there is in this relationship of Mentor Minte? How arewe going to make this mutually equitable? I'm not asking you to buythings, I'm not asking MOU to do things, but I have to learn something from you.The same way that I'm givting back to you, and if you can't tell me what Ican learn from you, I'm not the right person to be a Mentafr wow. That'stough, RJ! No! No! Actually, rather than tough. What I would say is itreally makes you think about if this is the right person and the rightpersonality type, that's going to help you be successful to move to that nextlevel that Youre Amig, for I dig it it's cool! Thank you! So much for yourtime. I've got a few last questions. This has been really really helpful ifwe're thinking about paying it forward and we're thinking about people thatyou think the audience should know about. Let's celebrate some of theother folks out there who are some of your favorite dps of sales founders,people that you've worked with that have really shaped your career over thepast, O twusant and twenty five years. Oh that's a long list and if I startsaying names- and I forget people, they will text and tweet about me- perhapsyou're overestimating the audience for the salesfacker podcast. It's just meand my mom listening man y. it's just a three right youear, it is come on now.I know you guys a sell sacor way too long, thereare some great people outthere and therther. I put them in a different categories and if I leaveanyone out, please forgive me tweep me and I will make a huge apology on linkthat I promise there you go. There are the influencers, the sponsors, an thementors right and that's one category, and that category I put people likeBomy thermit, I put Tom Andoza, I put Rob Acker, I put Kevin Acroy. Those arethe kind of people that have really helped to mould me and grew me toprepare to move up in bid of my career right. Then I put the quote: Unquotethought leaders which has been over used, but I believe is a real term andwhen I look at Thet category I look at people like Yearhart swatter. I look atDarryl spriter. I look at Tim, Ohi and Ross Tammer smit and I could go on JohnBerryls, a number of people that fit. I put Max into that that catego wesulerabsolutely Max, and I has had some great conversations that made me walkaway going. Wow, that's very different than what I thought right. Maxi is avery different approach to life. That's what we love about, and and as ofrecently, I put Gaytano in there too, because when I step back- and I look atthings- and I ask questions and he's like yeah, but have you thought of itfrom this angle? A D and You noticed, as the seasoned veteran most of thepeople that I just rattled off- are younger than e again, I'm learning fromthem. Well, you always got to be learning. You have to have a beginner'smind as they say any books that we should be reading that you'veinfluenced you recently yeah. I read one recently that completely haschanged my go to Marcet strategy and my approach to business with my ownconsulting firm, and that is by Donald Miller and it's building your brandstrategy building your brand strategy. Okay by Donald Miller, it's just ablueprint to success. That's awesome! Okay! I will read that R J. thank youso much any parting words of wisdom. What's your life motto, anything thatyou can leave us with as we head off into the sunset we're recording the sonof Friday afternoon. So S I go go home to see my wife. First of all, I dohumbly thank you and I appreciate the opportunity absolutely onto the showand I'll leave people with my life mode, and that is my Hashtag, that Youl seeon every single post that put up on all social media hope is not a strategy.There you go hope is not a strategy. We gotta do this thing. We got. We have tohave an actual plan there. It is. I, like it. R J thinks so much forparticipating in e Saltacker podcast.

If we want to reach out to you to hireyou or to email you or to get advice first of all, a is that okay and thenbe what is your preferred, assuming that it is but okay, I it's fine withus if you say no, but assuming that it is okay. What's your preferredCommunication Shammel? How shoull we find you if we, if we would seek tofirst of all, I'm a business guy, I'soslds, okay, pheese are good. Theseare very good. We like leads, everyone has their way of reaching out. So ifyou want to find me on the Web, I'm at Roderick Jeffersoncom on twitter at theVoice of Rod on Facebook at the Voice of Rod and also you can find us on ouryoutube channel not linked in. Can I find you in Lincoln linked inabsolutely linked in is also at Rodert Jeffersonan Associates, awesome, RogerJefferson Associates Rj, you can see how easily I've cooppeed RJ and, to mynot sense, sounds in her good yeah. I sounds like I'me been saying it. FREVERYO flowed like you've done this exactly listen. Thank you very much for yourtime and thanks for teaching us so much about enablement and I hope to be ableto work with you in the future and if not good luck, an all your futureendeavors congrats in the launch of the firm. Thank you so much my pleasure.I'm sure I'll see you guys at sell hacker in San Francisco, absolutelyTukin folksit Sam's corner. That was reallyinteresting interview with Roger Jefferson from Rogock, Jefferson andassociates, who spent time at all the big names that we all know in loveof,salesforsecom, Oraco, Marqetto and many many more. What I liked. I like a lotof things about what he said. Of course, it's both true and I'm obligated to saythat that's the way, sales and promotion work, but one of the thingsthat he said was your network. Is your net worth and he talked about the valueand he answered that question, not just in the context of like hey your notworkhelps you close more deals or find new career opportunities, but also just interms of understanding how to make the transition from an individualcontributor to a manager, as he said it's all about who you know, and it'sabout not just having a network but having not just comentoors but sponsorsR J mentioned that a mentor. Someone who talks about you and sponsor someonewho talks for you and that you need those sponsors in your career. In orderto take those next steps, you need people to frankly give you air coverand you need people to place a bed on you, even when others may not. I'vecertainly had those in my career and a lot of my early growth at Gerson, anger but glg came from first day I started at work. I developed a closerelationship with a guy that ended up running anmost operations for thecompany, Gy named Johnathan Glick, and he was my sponsor and he helped meaccelerate my career. So if you're out there and you're thinking about how totake those next steps in your career would really strongly encourage you tonetwork. I would encourage you to cultivate and built relationships. Youcan reach out the nee. You can reach upt a bunch of other people. Youdoesn't have to be hey. Will you be my mentor? It can be. I'm struggling withthis question we' wondering if you have time to help pay Cani buy you coffee,he cin of Viy, I lunch but build relationships and build a vianses,because you need somebody, that's willing to make a bet on you. If youwant to take those next, a D, subsequent steps in your career, sothat is SAM's corner. Thank you so much for listening, and I will see you guysnext time. Thank you to check out the show, notes, seeupcoming guests and play more episodes from our incredible line. Up of salesleaders, visit salestackercom and head to the podcast tap you'll find us onitunes or Google play. Obviously, if you enjoy this episode, share it withyour friends or peers on Linkedon, twitter or elsewhere, I guess elsewherewould be facebook if you want to get in touch with me, find me on twitter, atSam, F Jacobs or on Linkdon at linkdoncom INA. Sam F Jacobs. Twitteris for political ramblings. INVENTINGS linkon is for professionalcorrespondence. So if you have strong...

...political affiliations or perspectivesand don't want to get angered by my personal views than probably lentennisa better place in once and again, a big shoutout to our sponsors for thisepisode, Aircall your advance called center software, complete businessphone and contact center, a hundred percent natively integrated into anySRM and outreach. A customer engagement by form that helps efficiently andeffectively engage prospects to drive more pipine and close. More deals. I'llsee you next time.

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