The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

19. How to Become a Best-in-Class VP of Sales by 25 w/ Liz Young

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Liz Young is the Founder of Pump Women and on this week's podcast episode, she shares her tips on how to become a VP of Sales by 25.

One two one te three FO welcome to the Sales Hacker podcast:it's your host Sam Jacobs and I am the Cro behavox and the founder of the NewYork revenue collective. This is episode. Nineteen and we're going to beinterviewing. Lizyan Wiz is a member of the New York revenue, collective andshe's. Also an entrepreneur and she's going to walk us through theorganization that she found. It called pump women. So this is an awesomeepisode and I'm so glad that you're listening. Of course, we also want tothank our sponsors. So this week we've got two amazing sponsors and we'reexcited to work with them. aircolls actually going to be a sponsor fom, thenext couple of months. So that's awesome. Thank you. First is aircall.As I mentioned, they are a fune system designed for the modern sales team.They immegrate seamlessly into your crm, eliminating data entry for your repsand provide you with greater visibility, andtyour team's performance throughadvance repording. When it's time to scale you can add new lines and minutesand use in call coaching to reduce ramptime for your new reps, so visit arcalled that. Io forh sale tacker to see why UVER Donam, Brad Street pipe driveand thousands of others trust ar call for their most critical salesconversations, and specifically, I know that air call is launching a salesmocule they've been very focuse on customer support, they're launchingsales, and I think it's going to be fantastic. The second sponsors outreachou reachd odio, the leading sales engagement platforms Ar outrige triplesthe productivity of sales teams and empowers them to drive predictable andmeasurable revenue growth by prioritizing the right activities andscale ing customer engagements with intelligent automation. Outreach makescustomer facing teams more effective and improves his ability into whatreally drives results: op over to outreachd OD IO Florid Li sales hackerto see how thousands of customers, including cloud deric, glassdor, Andoraand Zolo relion out reachd to drive higher revenue for sales wrap. Finally,finally, you know I did found a this thing called the New York revenuecollective for those of you that are interested in what it is just so youknow it's a group of about sixty five...

...plus Cros, an CMOS in New York thatcome together for thought, leadership and professional development. We justlaunched London and so, if you're out there in a different city- and youdon't have a networking group of sales leaders that you can connect with shootme, aline and- and we can discuss because we're seeing a lot of goodgrowth with the revenue collective now Lizong is a member of the revenuecollective. This is episode. Nineteen thanks so much for listening and onwith the show everybody welcome to the sales hackerpodcast. I've got an incredible interview today, a good friend of mineand a member of the New York revenue. Collective we've got lizz young with us.So let me tell you about Liz before we get into the interview: She's a results,driven senior executive, with a specific focus on leading companiesfrom essentially before million and Arr all the way through growth mode. She'sgot a broad basic experience: He gruwnts a bunch of industries,including VC, back companies in publicly traded companies and she'sbeen doing this for over ten years, and I got to know Lis most recently as theSPP of sales and success at reonomy, so welcomeless. Thank you sand. Thanks forhaving me today, awesome we're excited to have you so for the way that wealways say it the baseball card for those of out in the world for those ofthe people, the humans out there that don't know who you are. Let's learn alittle bit about you really quickly so right now. What are you doing? What'syour title sore so right now, I'm actually just started my own company.Recently now, three months ago, congratulation tank, you and basicallypump offers sales, marketing and career education for women by women, so we'retrying to solve. I think you know two big gaps or problems in the market. Oneis that start up sovolved way too quickly for tritional education rightlike we can't use a textbook to teach people start up. Knowledge just doesn'twork that way, so we bring an experts that are doing great jobs in theworkforce every single day to help teach their learnings really quickly.So we can avoid making their mistakes and learn from their big wins band,then, second, being a woman in the workplace comes with a a really uniqueset of challenges and our goal is to help women navigate those challengesand set them up to succeed when they...

...often don't have a female mentor in theworkplace. Well, it sounds pretty inspiring to be honest with you, and Iwant to dive deeper into that through the conversation, because I think it'sa really important topic, particularly because it's often hard to findsomebody candidly like you, which is you, know, a female sales and and sortof like chief revenue officer, leader, theyre few and far between, and so Ithink it's a really important thing that you're working on give us a littlebit of background on you before you started pump. What were you doing?Obviously I mentioned it before, but tell us a little bit more about youknow, reonomy and what you were up to just prior yeah. So at reonomy we werecommercial, real estate, Tech Platform Data Company. We had built a reallylarge database of every commercial real estate property in the United States,so easiest way to think about it would be if you've used it Vazilo or straighteasy for residential properties. We basically built that version on thecommercial side, and I was running sales marketing Bisdov there and reallyworking on a new product launch and new sweter PROMUC lunches. So it was anexciting time to join a company when we were looking at hey. What's the best.Paye is hackle this market, and you know that's where from a assalesleadership sid and for anyone who's listening, that's doing a purely salesrole. What do you join really early companies that are in that phase oflaunching a new product or fate ound a new go to market? You get a lot ofreally cool, horizontal experience that lets. You expand your career prettyrapidly, but I was new to the warder real estate. I definitely was ot a realestate expert. My you know. Historical experience was mostly in restauranttech and a little bit of financial servicas tach. I worked at a reallysmall restaurant Tenk company and Bloomberg a large financial servicescompany. So I was in a newbidof the real estate worlds. Oh I didn't realizeyou worked Ta Bloomberg so really quickly on Rionomeja and then I want todive deep into the background. What was the size of the team? What's REONOMY'SROUGH ARR? How much money f they raised, give us a little bit of framing for itsure. When I joined reonomy we had raised just about twenty milliondollars and now they're up to the exact numbers shst under seven Soor. Sixtynine in change. Wow H raised a ton of capital and built a really defensibleand unique data offering that just no...

...one else in this face has built. So theonly other really person in this pace is cosar if anyone's familiar with thatcompany. Basically Cossar was this big incombent that had build a commercialtey data platform, but they did all of their work through a big coul center.That's Hay, they captured their data. So when we were looking atopportunities, reonomy said there has to be an interesting way to to do thisbetter and more effectively. So we started pretty quickly sprinting at hey.What are more innovative ways to build an exciting commerciaalty, a platform.When I joined we had a very small amount of revenue. We were a prettylarge team that was on the engineering side, but you know just around the onemillion dollar mark and over the course of two years you know consistentlydoubled the business year. Over year, we built a really cool offering wherewe were able to generate a ton of imboun leads. We were generatingprobably twenty five hundred to three thosand inbaunlees a month, and then wehad a killer inside sales team that was closing those leades with an averagesellcycle of two days. You know, contract size was a couple of grand ayear weere. You know closing client that were about two hundred dolars amonth, so it was unique sale cycle on process and it speaks to how strong theproduct was. Twenty five hundred leades a month is pretty damn good, socongratulations, fom, ciling and inbound engine like that. Tell us youknow, where is Lis Yong come from tell us how you got into the startup landand, let's start tracing the career, because I think one of the themes thatyou wanted to talk about. Besides just a female leadership and femaleexecutives, ind sales and marketing, it's also just young people and how tomanage their career. So how d you do it where'd, you start and how D you gethere for sure. So I went to State School University of Delaware.Definitely was not the most academic person, my parents joke that they paidfor me to party abroad and hang out, but I was always a hustler, so Iwaitressed throughout school. I was a but light girl, which was definitely mymost prestingious bolt. You've seen the worst sides of humanity and of the malegenderig absolutely, but I was always a hustler. So I always worked at leasttwenty five hours a week in school and when I was leaving school I knew Iwanted to move to New York City and honestly, I was willing to do whateverI had to do to live in New York City. I...

...said you, I don't care if I have to bea janitor, a waitress whatever I need you to live there I'll do that. I wasreally lucky that I got a job, but you know, through my school, actually doingsales of Bloomberg, the Big Financial Serviceis Tech Company, so I jus startat Bloomberg, go through their training, which was really intensive and greatand begin doing sales for them. So I'm traveling wreepselling us the terminallike the CO, Yeh Fing, the terminal and there you do a hybrid of accountmanagement in sales. In hindsight I didn't know how big of a business I was-you know running at that point, but you know several million dollars undermanagement as a twenty two year old. At this point, wow so was traveling toChicago. That was my territory. Every week you know road warrior. Staying atfancy hotels, you know great meals, the drink. I was a w lake short fan, O thergo evens been to that the elevator sounds like a club but larn to time.That's definitely where I launched my sales career, but you know. After abouttwo years I was a top performer there I had one large sale were actually soldto a government agency that hadn't been sold to before so I was, I was doingreally well, but I wanted an environment where I could learn more safter about two years. I got the Itch to leave and wanted to join somethingearlier stage: Wow, okay and so where'd you go so I ended up going to a companycalled Breda crum. That group on was in the process of acquiring. They weresmall, though, at that point you kno under ten people, Restaurant TechCompany, so we sold pointof sale software, so I went from Bloomberg,expense account wearing a suit to work and working. You know coveringmultimillion dollar accounts to slinging ninety niner a month softwareto pizza shops in the lowery side. You know and cold calling like crazy. So itwas a huge shock for me, but what I look back on why I made that jump, andthis would be my advice to anyone who's at a big corporate job and want to jumpto a smaller situation, is find someone that you can learn a ton from andthat's how I pick for upcome over other opportunities right like leavingbloomberk. I could have worked a lot of places, but I met an entrepreneur whothi. Second, I met him named Seth Haris.

He was t e Co, towner bredcom. I knewthat was someone that I could learn and Amensam out from really quickly and Itook the job I mean I quit flu bug within the same day that I met seth. Soit was a big risk, but definitely worth taking you don't fuck around ned oThas's out over here. So we've got a ton of people and there's so manypeople out there that are working at you know what you would think of isfairly cusshy or comfortable, very defined corporate jobs. How did youmanage that search? You know obviously you're sort of getting restless and yousay to yourself: okay, I want something a little bit more exciting. I want togo work in a rely stage company. How did you manage that process? How didyou end up meeting seth in the first place in whether some pieces of adviceyou can give to the audience so first thing is Tis, be honest with yourselfabout what your strain star and weakness as right. So I ended uplooking at restaurant tech in particular, because IAD worked atrestaurants for the last five years right. So I was a space that, althoughI had I was some financial services. I was really really familiar with. I hadbeen a waitress I'd, use point of sale, Shitty old point of Sall system freyears, so I got it right away. The problem and the solution made sense tome. So I think you know, when you're starting to navigate this startupindustry, which there's just thousands of options- and you know it's a reallyfragmented space- is look for something that you have an advantage it and thatcould be because you know the industry, because you've worked in it before,because you know your parents were in that industry just give yourself anadvantage, there's no reason to make more work for yourself. So that's how Iwas able to say: okay, restaurants, make sense and in full transparency Igot an inbalance lot of imbolnds on Linkdon. I know you get a lot of noiseon Lington answer those messages you never know which one is the rightopportunity. So I had answered a group on actually reach out to me with alintdon message. Saying: Hey: Are you interested in doing food sales for us,and I said no, I'm not. I want to go work in the start, UFF and they saidwell. This is actually perfect where you know it's in the process ofacquiring the startup called Bred Crom. Why don't you meet that founder? And Ithink that was the first time I'd ever answered an indown Linkedon message, somy advice is understand. Your strength really prioritize companies that fitthat profile find someone that you can...

...learn a ton from and then you get alongwith right like early stage, you need to like the people that you're workingwith because you're going to go through helend back together and then answer inBoun lengthen t reach out to people. It's totally fine to send cold messages.That's some of the best hires I've ever made for someone that Emmailedin medirectly and said: Hey. I want to work for you, and this is the reason whyyeah it's great advice, so you meet Sath. You quit Bloomberg and I thinkyou know to your credit. You were only there two years, tha the reality thatI've had besides you with people from Bloomberg. Is it's a little bithittemous if they've been there for like five six seven eight years,because they sometimes perceive themselves to be a bit moreentrepreneurial than the reality of how effective they actually are, becauseBloomberg is sit, just big company and so supportive. You know, and sometimesit's hard to lose, that infrastructure, yeah and paycheck- I mean I'll, be thefirst osay like if you're leaving that cusso corporate job do a work at anearly sage, sthartup be prepared to take a meaningful paycut for at least aCalundar year and financially prepare for that right, like I think I tookabout a fifty percent pay cut my first year I made up for that within acalendar year by getting promoteed very quickly and earning a lot of commission,but it's a much different world, even just comp fanwise at a large company,often you'R even up to seventy to d ninety percent base salary and thenbonus, whereas it startups you're, often looking at a F fifty splitbetween base salary and commission. So there definitely are adjustments andplanning that needs fot that need to happen prior to making that Jop, butyou'R riht SA. If people often say at large companies long for because I'scomfortable right, th n, they give you a ton of racsorces and that something Idefinitely went through a little bit of shock. When I first left, is you don'trealize how many resources you have when you're at a big company soBloomberg, for example, had a proprietary crm that they had made inhouse? That was custom built for exactly what we needed as sales peoplewhen you go work for a Nolla stage, TEC company, you're, probably working outof Google docks and maybe thinking about rolling out sales forus and youneed to customize and build that from scratch. So just one example of howdifferent resourcing is yeah know you're, absolutely right, so you get tobread crumb. You know you readjust your lifestyle because you're a hustler, asyou said, and you start selling pos...

...terminals to crowded space, but youadvance pretty quickly walk us through sort of what happened over the nextcouple of years, particularly you know one of the big questions that we get isyou know I'm an individual contributor and I'm kicking ass. But how do I knowthat I will be a good manager and how do I prepare myself if at all, to takethat responsibility? So how did you figure out that you were going to be amanager? How did you evolve into a sales leader Walkas through thatprogression? I knew I want tos, be a manager at leaving Bloomberg, but Ialso knew that I was totally unqualified to be a manager, so when Iactually aske be a manager when I got them the job at bread, crum and theypolitely told me absolutely not. Super ASCA ASING IS ALF the battle, so I wentin there from day one saying: what do I need to do to become a manager, and Iwas very clear with my boss about that right and I asked for frequent feedbackand a frequent understanding of. Where am I now, and what do I need to do toacquire the skills or experience set so that I can be a manager here? My advice,if you're, an a inividual contributor first thing is, is really think about.If you want to be a manager, because there's two often separate career pathsin sales, one is to continue on the individual contributor path which infull transparency often you can make more money and you get a lot moreflexibility and freedom right. If you're a killer, individual contributor,you can, you know, go, have a long lunch and have two classes of wine.That's not happening when you're managing people, so I think vers isdecide if you want to be af individual contributor or a manager. If you getjoy from coaching others and want to get a seat at the table and move to apath of leadership and that's great, really phonein on what skills you needto develop, because both of your work as a manager involves managing peopleand People's emotions. So your Eq is much more important than actually yoursales abilities. So I think for me, a lot of it was learning how to motivatepeople. So I immediately as my boss what I needed to do to get there and Iwas asking for weekly faback saying how am I doing and developing the skillshet to become manager. So after beciusewas after three months, mymanager at the time said: Hey you're, ready to be a manager, but you got tobe the best at sales, because the team...

...will never respect you otherwise, andwhen we had a team that was interesting, eclectic bunch. We had some people thathave been in the Rusian Industry. For Twenty plus years. We had some techpeople, so it was a really diverstaam and he sais to you have to blowt yourtarget for the next two months. You have to double it, so I thought likehell to do that and I was new, so I didn't have a big pipeline. So I workedday and night, I used sales force, my advantage, I started doing my own emailmarketing campaigns. I was walking into restaurants for hours a day and I gotthe job done. So I think my learning there from going to be an IC ceed tomake that first jump to manager, which I don't think is a hard shop. I thinkthe jump esenior management targer, but I can gits that little bit is figureout what you need to do, O to get that promotion and kill it and companieswill respond well, if you're, a top performer, don't ask for a promotion ormore responsibility if you're not doing a great job at what your jobdescription is right, like earn the right to have an opinion and to ask forthings, and that means crushing your job and then you can take on more yeahit's great. So many people come to me and they want to change and job. Theywant a different job when they're not performing very well at the existingjob. You can't create an environment in a company where you get to constantlyswitch around and it just doesn't work unless you're really doing anexceptional job where you were originally hired for so totally. Icompletely agree with you, so you get promoted. I mean it's Soll, prettyquick you're. There said sounds like three months plus two months is fivemonths. I might things move quick at bread crumb. I think, I'm technically,I'm Millenni also that sat milenial promotion well you're in one of thegood monies, because you've got the work ethic to back it up to back up thesensn title man. So what happened after that? And how did you ultimately findyour way from bread, chrome to reonomy, walk us through those steps, I'm atbreadcomb bread come starts growing pretty quickly, I'm at this point aregional manager. Technically so, like Directora level, had a team of tenpeople was running the East Coast, sale team, there was a west coast matagerand a Midwest manager and the Orgas Rod pretty quickly, and we decided that weneeded a head of sales and I wanted that job at I knew I was the rightperson for that job and I knew I could do it. So I again asked for the job andagain I'm immediately told now so I'm...

...pretty used to rejection at this pointand we start interviewing people for the head of sell job and I was in theinterview circuit and we bring in fifty year old dude after fift year old dudethat have you know, had twenty five years, a point of sale, experience tobe the head of sales and I'm interviewing all of these people, andI'm saying I know I could do a better job than that and we end up not findingthe right fit for several months, so I'm killing it as the regional salesmanager. My team is every single month about one hundred and twenty percent togoal. You know winning the president's club all that stuff, so I just starteddoing the HA o sale shop. I start leading sales white initiativesbuilding out strategy, collaborating with the Marketing DepartmentCollaboratin, with the account management, our client success team andafter nine months of just doing the job and interviewing fifty year old man,aftoficiaal man. They eventually said guess what you just passed: Theinterview ind the jobs. Yours, so I ended up becoming a head of sales.There past part another six months took over the marketing team. So, at the endof my time, AF bread crumb was running sales, marketing and sales ops, an wedon't a large team. You know we had forty sales people across three cities.I took the team from outside to inside really improve the efficiency spun upadditional revenue streams. We had not only the point of sell software, but wewere selling financing on the hardware as well as payment processing services.So we built a really awesome business, but at the end of my time there itbecame clear that there was some transitionin going on with ourrelationship with group on and I was introduced to a VC firm. You know fromcontact in New York. It started just kind of seeing at was out there. I wasstill working full time, ut breadcombut. I wanted to understand my worth andI'll say this for anyone who's been at a company for a long time. One of mymistakes that I made up front crom was. I should have done that earlier. I hadno idea how much I was worth. I should have bet gotten paid more for sure, soat least once a year just test your value on the market, because the market,especially an New York Tech, is changing pretty rapidly and if you'vebeen at one job for multiple years, there's a good shot that youre pay andTitleis, probably undermarket yeah. So you start meeting people, maybe boarethe vcs that you were connecting with...

I'm sure some of them yare still closewith yeah. I met a few and the one that actually ended up connecting me torionomy was Sam. A mutual friend of ours is Brad from primary and he wasgreat because he really, I think, gave me insights into what the Tech LandStape Wolk take in. This is now in two thousand and fifteen. What the techlandscape looks like and helped me navigate that, because I've been headsdown just operating business for the last three years. I was a little bitnaive, so it was good to have somemore that you could trust help. You navigatethat and when I met he innoduced me Oa few companies reonime was one of themand I just immediately knew based on the quality of the team and the size ofthe problem and the you know the strength of the product that that wasthe right fet and that's awesome where you originally ahead of sales. Did yourun marketing at reonomy to? I did not start running marketing, so I was hiredas a VP of sales and there was a marketing lead that I was notresponsible for and then, as time went on, and this is something that Ihappened to me at bread, comen reon me. I ended up taking over marketing, andthis is something I think is really critical for early stage. Companies ishaving either marketing and sales beunder, one department or marketing insales at least be really aligned. Why it's so important is because, if youhave marketing and sales butting heads you're constantly going to have fingerpointing- and I go wit- This thisconflict between that departments,where marketing saying hey sales, you suck it closing our LE and Salls ussaying marketing, Gour leaned soccer, there's not enough of them, so thereality is to run a successful revenue or growth org. You need to get thehighest quality of Lees as affordably as possible, and the only way you cando that is if you're looking at sales, you know salesly generation, so bdrs,SDRs and marketing ly generation holistically that something that Iworked to earn at both orags by earning trust as a sales later and then takingover marketing. And it's something I know I would recommend anyone- who'sDarting, an early stage company to at least look for team where marpeting andsales is Vera Aligne, because it's going to lead to a more successfulfrour strategy. And do you feel like that alignment comes from givingmarketing specific kind of close revenue, pis or responsibilities? Isthat like what are your strategies for driving alignment? Yeah? I think one ishaving joint goals that everyone's...

...working to achieve. So I think whatjust challenge you ren into is: When marketing just has a lead number targetand they don't have any end of funnel targets like quality meetings orrevenue they're, just not incentivized, to do the right things right, theyre,intended Bie to get as many leadues as possible in the quality that qualitydoesn't really matter. So I think one is making sure you have goals that theentire growth org is working towards achieving together is crucial and to iscompentating marketing professionals a little bit more like sales people,sales people are lucky and Weveveen lucky both of us Sam. You know wereally get compensated well when we generate a lot of revenue. Historically,marketing hasn't been that way. So I'm a firm believer and it doesn'tnecessarily need to be a similar commission structure but at leastgiving marketing bonuses based on the revenue that they're helping contributeto generate one other thing that's critical to is is just messaging. Sooften, if you have the department, I not speaking enough, your messaging andmarketing can sound totally different than what your sales metter women aresaying right. So, if you look on the website that should not sound all thatdifferent than what your salesperson over here is saying when they'retalking to a prospect, so making for messaging is alined throughout bothparts of the York is really critical because it gives the prospect a betterexperience and increases or life they have af cuverdict. Absolutely right. Ithink the point that you make about the compensation structure is reallyinteresting. I think my experiences you have to find that marketer or thatmarketing team. That's willing to embrace that variability and willing totruly understand that you know life is going to be a little bit more uncertainbecause it's not just going to be about the mql is a function of this leadscore, and if you got twenty, then you got twenty and you can go home and notworry about whether they closed or not. So I think it's good feedback, goodlessons. You've now, in a very short amount of time, moved from just beingan individual ontributor to original sales manager and then running a bunchof different teams. So what are some of the biggest lessons that you take? Youknow you had a comment offline about eighteen month cycles on your career,walk us through what that means for people that are listening yeah. I thinkwhere I benefited the most is being open to taking a lot of risk and movingreally quickly, especially in my early...

...an midtwenty. So when I look back at mytwentis one, what set me up? I was running sales at bread, crumb and, hadyou know forty Seles people under me when I was twenty four right before Iturne twenty five really young got that opportunity. So one is. I took riskright, like I jumped from this cushy corporate job took a big Pay Cup,because I knew it would set me up for longer term success, you're able totake that type of risk when you're twenty one and just have to cover rentright it fast fal. Ten years, if you have kids or you have larger bills, youmight not be able to take that risk, so take risk young when you can to is runyour career in eighteen month cycles. What I mean by that is every eighteenmonths. You need to have real growth and at least one of the three mainareas, a career that I always try to focus on. So first is cash. How muchmoney are you making to is title? So what is your title and what type ofposition are you able to get and then three is knowledge, and this is themost important. What are you wearning, because I will gladly- and this is whatI did- a breadcrumb- take less money if I can learn a lot, because that is themost valuable assit of all and if you're not really getting major growth,one of those three buckets for in an eighteen month, time period, it's timeto go so run eighteen month cycles on your career, it's okay to leavesomewhere if you're not getting both in one of those areas, but you don't negrowth everywhere right. So it's okay to take a cash fit if you're learning atime or if you're going to get a title promotion, and I think timing is reallyKat right. So a lot of my success came from making deals internally, askingpeople from pomotions understanding what I needed to do to get thosepromotions being extremely persistent and understanding what I had to do toget there, but make sure you ask at the right time. So one is asking you ofleverage. You know, don't ask when you just miss potask when you're, whenyou're, crushing your quota and also ask when you know that your interestaligned with what the business needs. I think that's a mistake. A lot ofyounger people make is it's all about me, but the reality is your boss's job,whether it's the co or the vpfsales is to do what's right for the business, soyou're going to be most successful in growing your career growing yourcompensation. If what you're asking for will also lead to greater success forthe business, Thatis, really good advice, the other thing that you'redoing implicitly, because sometimes you...

...don't have to ask it's- not necessarilyyou have to promote me right now. It's I want to be promoted. I want to be aVP of sales. What do I need to do to get there? Let's build a plan togetherand I think a lot of people they don't ever actually make that explicit askand they don't work backwards from okay, no problem the find that, if it's notthe right time, but what are the milestones that I need to hit and thatoften forces the management to define what the responsibilities and whith therequirements of the role are, which I think is also a healthy exercisecompletely, and it makes you prepare for the role more effectively. So ifyou start, you know working on that prep and more or less doing the roleearlier on, you'll be a lot better at the role once you do it. Like it hinessaid, I was actually a pretty bad manager at forst, a Breda Crom, but nowI've had enough experience. I understand- and I've learned from that,so I think you know ask really self reflect and also Boka with rejection. Iwas told no every time I've asked for a promotion more or less, but no justmeans not right now doesn't mean never. That is why you are a great salesperson.I have a quit just for so many people that are just getting to management,and you mentioned that you are a shitty manager at first and now you've becomea pretty good one, whater one or two or three key tips tactic: Strategies:Mindsets: How can someone be a great manager or just shortcut- and you knownot make some of the same mistakes that you made yeah. I think one if you'regetting promoted from being a peer to being someone's manager, which I wentthrough a bread Crom, we oat were into some owpar situations right. So I thinkfirst is make sure the team believes that your job is to make their liveseasier and make them more money right. If your team, that you're not proted torun, thinks that you're going to roll out a bunch of things that are going tomake their life more complicated, they're not going to want to rallybehind you, so I think Oron their trust by saying, Hey, guys, we're going to dosome things, they might not all be pleasant, but I promise my goal is tomake you as much money as possible. on't help you with your career, sothink. That's critical first is just really setting the stage for what yourgoals are. Second, is I made the mistake of being way too distant frommy team at first managing a team and being a director VP. The hardest partof that is. The people piece is...

...understanding what makes people tickunderstanding how to make someone have a good day if they're having a bad day,understanding people's emotions- and I think I was concern when I was younger-that I didn't want to come across as being imature or someone's friend, so Ioverindex, so I'm being cold and distancing myself from the team. I wantthat resulted I, as a team that didn't really care about alling behind meright because it didn't feel a personal connection. So after a few months Isaid, let me try to become closer to my team understand you know about people'spersonal lives and once I did that and once I got to know individuals whenreally got to know them as humans, I became a much much better manager andmore effective manager. We got way better results because I knew why theywere coming to work every day, so I think, really get to know your team andthe people that work with you, because that will you know, really reallybenefit the team of productivity yeah. So many people become managers and theyfeel like they need to present themselves in the image of what theythink sort of like a tough person looks like totally. I thought guys. One ofwas like little kids wearing a suit. You know I was trying to be something Iwas totally not well, it's great advice. You know you started pump. I would loveto talk about that. A little bit. One of the questions is obviously youmentioned that you know women face a very specific and unique set ofchallenges. What are those challenges in your opinion and how should women inthe work specifically in sales of marketing? What do women need to do tomake sure that they get the same opportunities, the same pay and all ofthe same glamor and accolades that men get particularly when it comes tostarnups yeah? The main thing that pump scool is isn't and we're not trying tosay hey. We don't want to elevate men as well. Our goal is to say hey. Wewant to make sure women are getting the same opportunity to your point andgetting paid the same as men are fener set up for success will give you anexample of one area where women are different than men, especially on theHales a marketing set. So women generally make great sales people. Theynaturally have skills and interpersonal skills that tend to translate to beingsuccessful account executives. But when you talk about women negotiating forthemselves, they tend to be Artsa much...

...worse than men, and it's interestingespecially around compensation. Women are generally pretty good atnegotiating for developmental resources to say Haysam can I have additionaleducation? Can I have some more clyfflexibility, but one atcones tocompensation? Historically, women are much worse at negotiating forthemselves, for compensation than men are so that's one example of an areawhere pump is really focus on saying, hey. How can we help women negotiate?That therapay is at least on part with men ND, and that's not the only reasonwhy there's Genner Pegat there's a lot of other reasons, but our goal is tobridge that cap as much as we cat so our first event, actuor a LONC tevent,which was in June, was a huge success. We had one hundred of New York City'sbest women in growth. We did an awesome panel d. It was all around negotiatingfor yourself and giving true tactical device about how you coan increase theamount of money you're making today and the response we've gotten. It's justbeen incredible. I mean I got the text this week from a friend saying: Hey I',never asked for a raise outside of my annual review, and I did that for thefirst time because of pump seven and June, I used these tactics. I learnedfrom your speakers at that event and got my first raise out of annual cyclehut. I've ever got in ten years of work. What are some of the tactics share sothat folks, that weren't there maybe can learn a thing or two yeah? It wasgreat, so we had a few VPS of sales that are actually in the the revenuecollective o SAM WI s and a lot of their feedback. You know it was aroundthings that Wev chatted about on this podcast. So one is timing right. Ask atthe right time when you have leverage, don't ask when your boss is having aterrible day, make sure you're setting yourself up for a success to is knowwhat you're negotiating for and who you're negotiating with right and anyconcerns they'll have about you. So, if you're asking for a promotion and alarge raise, but you know that your boss is going to have one or twoconcerns prepare for those and address those initially right before you evenaskd for the race us to address them head on three is make sure youunderstand you're worth so if you're paid under market right now, that's avalid point to your boss. So make sure you have a clear understanding of yourworth in the market and prepare that...

...information. A lot of it's aroundpreparation and timing, and also it's don't be afraid to ask a lot of thefear that women have in particular on negotiating for compensation is becauseit's often perceived as being manly or being too aggressive and historically,when women have asked for compensation changes raises men find it to be tooaggressive. It's not in line with an undoing air quote, but of course youcant see right now how women should act in business to know that you're goingto deal often with those attitudes, ind those feelings and be prepared tohandle them. I think it's really really good advice. A part of it is, you know.One of the things that you mentioned is a lot of people. It's an abstractcomplaint, sometimes without a specific ask, and so one of the things I alwaystell people in any negotiation is, if you want more money, have a number inmind because it doesn't do me any good as your manager, you say, okay want toraise. I say how much you say. Well, I don't really know it's like okay. Well,then, it's not quite clear that moneyis really the driving issue here.Something else is going on and think about the business to there right. Soif you're, a killer, salesperson, you've been doing, opse work meanyou've been going above and beyond, and that's you know: Save the company fromhiring a sales offs person. That's a great point for your degotiation, soit's Hay Sam. You know. I've been above and beyond. I've been doing some ofthis ops work and Osperson costs. Seventy grand to hire a New York Cityand I've taken care of twenty five percent of that. So I deserve xraysjust to right size, my current income, let alone for the promotion that I'masking for. I love it honestly. Some of IT LIV is just confidence and it's hardto replicate the confidence that you have, but you don't have that need forapproval. You're, not worried that you're going to come across, as yousaid too aggressive you're, just saying this is the reality of the situation.It's capitalism I'm doing a service, and this is what it costs your spot on.Confidence is key and that's something with pump as we expand I'd love to evengo earlier to women as young as high school, because that's really why I'mbuilding that confidence starts, and I highly recommend people working in thehospitality industry, because I think that's where I got a lot of myconfidence was being a waitress right. I learned how to upsell make someone obuy a bottle of wine. Make them get dessert, be a lot of very awkwardsituations with clients. Wich. At that...

...point, where you know people I waswaiting on, but it definitely was my you know starting point for gettingconfidence in dealing with other people. Yeah. It's great advice, last questionI have for this little section and then I want to sort of pay it forward andget some other thoughts as we're coming to the end of our time together. Butyou mentioned to me in a different context. You said: focus on cashcompensation when it comes to start ups, I think that's, maybe it's becomingmore prevalent a point of view, but it's certainly controversial relativeto like a couple years ago. So walk us through you're thinking there yeah thereality is, and I've learned this over the past few years is startups. Youoften really focus on your equity compensation because there's always asa salesperson, there's generally three types of compentation that you get youget your base salary, you get bonus Fort Commission and then you get equityand the reality is. Unless you join a company really early, you no seed,maybe series a. If you join a later stage company. The company has to havea really really large exit for you to be able to make real money off of it.For a few reasons, one is because you have to pay to exercise your optionsright, so this is, I think, something that a lot of people dont understand.rearly on is you're not just getting shares for free. If you join a series Bseries C series company you're, getting options that you have to pay toexercise at a later point, and then you have to pay the taxes on those sharesafter you've exercise them. So it can be very, very expensive, almostcrippling to purchase your shares as an individual contributeour sales person,so because of that, it's best to optimize your cash and still fight forequity. Right, I'm not saying not fight for equity, but there's such a smallpercentage that your equity t will be worth an amount that really changesyour life, where your cash compensation can absolutely change your life muchmore quickly. So when you're negotiating for cash comp, are yousaying to the salespeople out there to your point, thatre on F fifty? Is itasked for a higher base, a lot of the CFOs out there say I'll, give you ahigher base and I'll give you a Higherot but you're going to have ahigher quota. Does that factor into the consideration? You say: okay, fine,I'll sign up for a higher quota. How do you think about that yeah? I think oreally know the business right, because you don't want to set yourself up forfailure and, if you're signing up for a higher quotity at a higher base, thatcan be a slippery slope to make sure you understand the historic formancetof,the business. What have other reps in...

...this position done? Because you don'twant to sign upt for something that you're just doom for Fellore, becausethen that conresult n, you actually bein terminate it. So I think one is besmart and and don't in up for something that you can achieve just to get anextra ten grand on your base, fight for a lot of upside so make sure thecompensation plan, the the commission piece has acceleration, which means forevery dollar revenue that you generate over your goal. You get paid more thanevery dollar revenue you generated under hitting your goal. US look foracceleration. Look for uncapped commission to make sure that if youjust absolutely crash your quota that you could buy a fancy sports car andtravel the world like you should be able to do that as a top forming salesperson and make sure the plan is achievable and what I mean by that isask for the distribution of performance. Historically, so you want to know itdid only twenty percent of people hit target. If that's the case- and this isprobably not an appropriate plan- and the plan needs to be right- sized makesure that you're looking for at least sixteen to seveny percent of the teamachieving quota, this really good foodback. So the hard scfos in theworld will say Finliz I'll, give you acceleration, but I want decelerationto- and I want you know if you get eighty percent of goal- you're notgetting eighty percent of your of your ot you're getting sixty percent. How doyou feel about that and then the specific debate that I often have withCFOs is the kind of like the cliff, where sometimes there's compplans outthere, where, like below fifty percent of your goal, you don't get anything atall. Do you have a point of view on those types of complents yeah, I okaywith having deceleration below one hundred percent. I think that's fairright. If you're getting paid more for out performing, then you should also bepanalized if you're underperforming. So I'm okay with that, but the cliff I'mnot a huge fan of so the issue I have with a cliff is: If someone is notgoing to hit target or not going to clear the cliff and they understandthat it incentivizes sandbagging and holding the deal till next month whenthey have a when they feel that they personally have a better shot of utleast clearing the cliff to make some commission. So I never support thingsin complants that intendto by Sam Bagging, because that's not good forthe business yeah. Also, the business still makes money when somebody makesthe sales so they're not really aligned...

...and it frankly just sucks to havepeople make sales and not pay them anything. It's just not a fun feeling.Nothing kills morale more than having broke sales people. So I try to avoidthat at all costs yeah. So a couple last questions just highly tactical, aswe like to do. One of them is, you know, we're in the sales enablement salestechnology world. You Know The New York revenue, collective has you knowsponsor and the podcast doesn't sponsor what are some of the great tools thatyou use, that you can't live without there's so many, and I think that's oneof the challenges actually now is to not get overlooad it with all theoptions. I'm a huge insight. Squared fan there, a sales insides company thatfor a very small amount of operations, effort and implementation, you get animmense amount of insights and detail and value into what's going on in yoursales funal, and it's actually incredible how little work you have todo for the amount of data you get from them. That's awesome: it's a great tool.It's always surprising because there's a group of sales up people that theyview it as sort of like a mark of shame if they have to go out and buy insihesquare, but it's still it makes a lot of things a lot easier and sometimesit's just better to just put it in not worry about a bunch yeah and if you'rean an early stage company and don't have the resources to have a full time,Dev on a Bi tool for you to build ou, custom, dashfords and you know atableau or similar product, then insight squart isn't awesome off theshelf option. Yeah agreed Y, so you mentioned it before, but like anymentors or people that we should know about in your career, you just want topay it forward. We can sort of go on link tin, look them up and maybe shootthem an out who are some of the people that have influenced you ere T e lastcouple of years. Definitely the CO breadcrum tat Paris, he taught me somany things taught me Grit taught me that you have problems every single dayand basically you're paid as a leader at a start up to overcome them asquickly and effectively as possible. Definitely show me what leadershiplooks like, so he continues to be a big mentor of mine, he's a repeat, startupfounder and then also, unfortunately, live with a another founder. My husbandis a co of a company called electric...

...they're, a series, a company in NewYork or about fifty five people. Now that's revolutionizing the IT Worldthrough slack. So it's really nice to have a sounding board over the dinnertable. To talk about. You know, growth, challenges and how to scale businessyeah, and you guys do a bunch of deals together right, you're, doing realestate deals together and you'r talking startup, so yeah we just ranted eachother about anything. We love anything. That's the hustle anyway to make moneyere interested in Wei lofe it any books podcast. You know any content that youconsume to get better, that that you want to share with the rest of thefolks out there there's so many good podcast out there, so I think, listento podcast all the time. I'm a Tim Ferris Fan, which is you know, everyonelistens to. I think, but I really enjoy his podcast. You know I'm not reallyloyal to one specific podcast, but if there's someone interesting on anypodcast that I like I'll, listen to it, I'm currently reading the originals byAdam brant and it's phenomenal highly recommended it's about how to select orcreate original ideas and then how to actually act on them and Heis apsychologist and it's been fascinating to read that's great advice and then,lastly, give us your motto: Ang Life, because the one that you share with me,I think, is one that I try to adhere to. So, what's that I have an early morningroutine, when I have a regimented early morning routine, I am so much moreproductive than what I don't and remove any optionality in the morning right soto have your clothes picked out the night before. If you're a breakfasteater have your breakfast ready to go. If you have to make decisions in themorning when you're a little croggy, it will slow you down. So, if you're ableto get up deal with all of your personal bs payer credit cards answer,you know your family's emails pay the cable bill in your office by andalready hit the gym and you're in the office by Aightam you ere, going to bemore successful than everyone else in your mind, will be more clear to tackall the day. What time do you try to wake up? If I'm really good at myroutine? I'm not super eally like six am is fine. I can get all that done,because if I have everything picked out the night before I'm really fast in themorning, so I don't need an hour. It's a dilly dollar around the apartment.Six is pretty good, especially if youre millennial most onails. Are you knowit's not six. I can assure you that so...

...you don't have to get up afore. Fortyfive, if you, you know, remove a lot of the things that slow down in themorning. That's great advice. Lastly, so if we want to get in touch, ifthere's women out there that want to join pump or learn more if they want toreach out to you for advice or Mentorship, is that okay and what'syour preferred method of communication, absolutely go to pump womencom and wehave our full list of events displayed. So please join us for event or you canemail me Liz at pump womancom. If you have a specific question or are curious,aarmar wonderful, we will do it. I hope you get some emails and Lis thanks. Somuch for participating is Great Chatn with you thanks Sam hell, everybody. It is SAM's cornerwonderful conversation with Lizziong one of the founding members of the NewYork revenue collective. So we see each other often and were always excitedshe's, a really strong female leader in the sales community. In the US, butspecifically in the New York Texscene, she just launched pump women. Pleasecheck it out. I think you know we talked about a bunch of differentthings, and a lot of it's just related to the frame that you can extract fromLiz is that she has a specific and intentional point of view ond how shemanages her career and she's, not ashamed or self. Conscious about that,and I think that's really inspiring and something if you're young, it's notjust about wanting more. It is about applying specific goals. If you want apromotion, you may not be ready but understand what you need to do to getthat promotion and specifically articulate the desire. Hey I'd like tomove uff I'd like to be a manager. What do I need to do? That's very differentthan kind of grumbling and not saying anything, and then at the end of theyear, complaining and saying: Why didn't they promote me? Well, sometimesyou know that old Montre, if you don't ask you can't get so make sure youarticulate what your desires are, what your goals are. Fom want more money,say it and say how much money you want again another problem negotiation ispeople ask for things that they don't know what they want? They just they'rejust unhappy it' sort of like an existential anx. Every time I go intonegotiation these days. I know exactly...

...what I'm going for. I have a number inmy head. I have a specific deal term that I'm looking for and- and I knowthat when I get that no matter what I've got to be happy with it, so youcan't have birus for mores after here's your rays, you said you wanted seventyyou're making a basis. Sixty here's, you rase to seventy, say HOS shit. Theydidn't give MOU. Seventy Five! Well, that's on you! If you didn't ask for it!So if you don't ask you can't get be intentional about your goals and don'tbe self conscious, just provide a framework for how you're going toachieve them. If you're not ready, understand what you need to do to getthere. This has been Sam's corner and I'll talk to Ou. Soon, everybody to check out the show, notes, seeupcoming guests and play more episodes from our incredible line. Up of SALSleaders, visit sales hackercom and head to the PODCAST TAP theyll find thesales hacking podcast, an itunes, wof Google play, and if you enjoyed theepisode, please do share it with your purce on Linkedan twitter, internalemail. However, you prefer, if you want to get in touch with me, you can findme on twitter, samf Jacobs or on Linkedan at linkdoncom and sa Sam efJacobs. If you have feedback about the show, if you have guests that you thinkI should be focused on, if you would like to be a guest feel free to reachout to me on Linkin and will do our very very best. So thank you so muchand do share the content if you find it to be interesting or engaging and ifyou think I'm doing a Shitty job, let me know that as well now, big shout outto our sponsors for this episode, we've got to, as you know, heircoll, which isyour advanced call center software, complete business phone and contactcenter. One hundred percent natively integrated into any crm'so reallyincredible technology and ow reach a customer engagement platform that helpsufficiently and effectively engage prospects to drive more pipe line andclosed more deals. I will see you next time.

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