The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

19. How to Become a Best-in-Class VP of Sales by 25 w/ Liz Young

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Liz Young is the Founder of Pump Women and on this week's podcast episode, she shares her tips on how to become a VP of Sales by 25.

One, two, one, three, three. Welcome to the sales hacker podcast. It's your host, Sam Jacobs, and I am the Cro of behaviors and the founder of the New York revenue collective. This is episode nineteen and we're going to be interviewing Liz Young. Liz is a member of the New York revenue collective and she's also an entrepreneur and she's going to walk us through the organization that she found. It called pump women. So this is an awesome episode and I'm so glad that you're listening. Of course, we also want to thank our sponsors. So this week we've got two amazing sponsors and we're excited to work with them. Are Calls actually going to be a sponsor for the next couple of months, so that's awesome. Thank you. First is air call. As I mentioned, they are a phone system designed for the modern sales team. They integrate seamlessly into your crm, eliminating data entry for your reps and providing you with greater visibility into your team's performance through advanced reporting. When it's time to scale, you can add new lines in minutes and use in call coaching to reduce ramp time. For Your New Reps. so visit air call dot Ioh for sales hacker to see why Uber, Dun and Bradstreet, pipe drive and thousands of others trust are call for their most critical sales conversations. And specifically, I know that air call is launching a sales module. They've been very focused on customer support. They're launching sales and I think it's going to be fantastic. The second sponsors outreach. Outreach DOT ioh the leading sales engagement platform. So outreach triples the productivity of sales teams and empowers them to drive predictable and measure triple revenue growth by prioritizing the right activities and scaling customer engagements with intelligent automation. Outreach makes customer facing teams more effective and improves his ability into what really drives results. Pop over to outreach dio forwards sales hacker to see how thousands of customers, including cloud, ere, glass door, Pandora and Zillo, rely on outreach to drive higher revenue or sales rep finally, finally, you know, I did found this thing called the New York revenue collective. For those of you that are interested in what it is, just so you know. It's a group of about sixty five plus Cros and CMOS in New York that come together for thought leadership and professional development. We just launched London and so if you're out there in a different city and you don't have a networking group of sales leaders that you can connect with, shoot me a line and and we can discuss because we're seeing a lot of good growth with the revenue collective. Now. Lizz young is a member of the revenue collective. This is episode nineteen. Thanks so much for listening and on with the show. Hey, everybody, welcome to the sales hacker podcast. I've got an incredible interview today the good friend of mine and a member of the New York revenue collective. We've got Liz young with us. So let me tell you about Liz before we get into the interview. She's a results driven senior executive with a specific focus on leading companies from essentially before a million and Rr all the way through growth mode. She's got a broad base of experience. A growns a bunch of industries, including VC back companies and publicly traded companies, and she's been doing this for over ten years and I got to know Liz most recently as the step of sale and success at Rhonomy. So welcome list. Thank you, Sam, thanks for having me today. Awesome. We're excited to have you. So for the way that we always say at the baseball card for those of out in the world, for those of the people, the humans out there, that don't know who you are, let's learn a little bit about you really quickly. So right now, what are you doing? What's your title? Sure, so, right now. I'm actually just started my own company recently now, three months ago. Congratulations. Thank you. And basically pump offers sales, marketing and career education for women by women. So we're trying to solve, I think you two big gaps or problems in the market. One is that startups evolved way too quickly for traditional education right like we can't use a textbook to teach people start up knowledge. Just doesn't work that way. So we bring an experts that are doing great jobs in the workforce every single day to help teach their learnings really quickly so we can avoid making their mistakes and learn from their big wins. And then, second, being a woman in the workplace comes with a really unique set of challenges and our goal is to help women navigate those challenges and set them up to succeed when they often don't...

...have a female mentor in the workplace. Well, it sounds pretty inspiring, to be honest with you, and I want to dive deeper into that through the conversation because I think it's a really important topic, particularly because it's often hard to find somebody candidly like you, which is, you know, a female sales and and sort of like chief revenue officer leader. They're few and far between, and so I think it's a really important thing that you're working on. Give us a little bit of background on you before you started pump. What were you doing? Obviously I mentioned it before or but tell us a little bit more about, you know, Rihanna Mey and what you were up to just prior. Yeah, so at Riannomy we were Commercial Real Estate Tech Platform Data Company. We had built a really large database of every commercial real estate property in the United States. So easiest way to think about it would be if you've used you Zilo or street easy for residential properties. We basically built that version on the commercial side and I was running sales marketing Bizdev there and really working on a new product launch, a new suitter product launcious. So it was an exciting time to join a company when we were looking at, Hey, what's the best way to tackle this market? And you know, that's where, from a sales leadership side, and for anyone who's listening that's doing a purely sales role, when you join really early companies that are in that phase of launching a new product or figuring out a new go to market, you get a lot of really cool horizontal experience that lets you expand your career pretty rapidly. But I was new to the world real estate. A definitely was not a real estate expert. My, you know, historical experience was mostly in restaurant tech and a little bit of financial services. Attack I worked at a really small restaurant tank company and Bloomberg, a large financial services company. So I was a new body of the real estate world. Oh, I didn't realize you worked to Bloomberg. So really quickly on Rihannamy Ja and then I want to dive deep into the background. What was the size of the team? What's Rihannamy's rough are? How much money have they raise? Give us a little bit of framing for it. Sure, when I joined rihanomy we had raised just about twenty million dollars and now they're up to the exact numbers, just under seventy S or sixty nine and change. Wow. Have raised a tonic capital and build a really a defensible and unique data offering that just no one else in the space has built. So the only other really person in the spaces is Costar, if anyone's familiar with that company. Basically, Co Star was this big incumbent that had build a commercial essay data platform, but they did all of their work through a big call center. That's why they captured their data. So we were looking at opportunities. Renomy said there has to be an interesting way to to do this better and more effectively. So we started pretty quickly sprinting at Hey, what are more innovative ways to build an exciting commercial estate platform? When I joined we had a very small amount of revenue. We were a pretty large team that was on the engineering side, but, you know, just around the one million dollar mark and over the course of two years, you know, consistently doubled the business year over year. We built a really cool offering where we were able to generate a ton of mbound leads. We're generating probably twenty five hundred to three thousand in bound leads a month and then we had a killer inside sales team that was closing those leads with an average shale cycle of two days. You know, contract size was a couple of grand a year. We were, you know, closing clients that were about two hundred dollars a month. So it was a unique sale cycle on process and it speaks to how strong the product was. A twenty five hundred leads a month is pretty damn good. So congratulations from building an inbound engine like that, tell us, you know where is those young come from. Tell us how you got into the startup land and let's start tracing the career, because I think one of the teams that you wanted to talk about, besides just female leadership and female executives and sales and marketing, it's also just young people pool and how to manage their career. So how did you do it? Where'd you start and how'd you get here? For sure? So I went to state school, University of Delaware. Definitely was not the most academic person. My parents joke that they paid for me to party abroad and hang out. But I was always a hustler, so I waitress throughout school. I was above light girl, which it was definitely my most prestigious Jove, you've seen the worst sides of humanity and of the male gender. I'm absolutely but I was always a hustler, so I always worked at least twenty five hours a week in school and when I was leaving school I knew I wanted to move to New York City and honestly, I was willing to do whatever I had to...

...do to live in New York City. I said, you know, I don't care if I have to be a janitor, a waitress, whatever I needed to do to live there, I'll do that. I was really lucky that I got a job. But you know, through my school actually doing sales of Bloomberg, the Big Financial Services Tech Company. So I you just started Bloomburg, go through their training, which was really intensive and great, and begin doing sales for them. So I'm traveling. Were you selling the terminal, like the cool runty? Yeah, sign the terminal and there you do a hybrid of account management in sales and hindsight, I didn't know how big of a business I was, you know, running at that point, but you know, several million dollars under management. As a twenty two year old at this point. Wow. So was traveling to Chicago. That was my territory every week. You know, Road Warrior, staying at fancy hotels, you know, great meals, the drake. I was a w lake shore fan. There you go. Even been to that the elevator sounds like a club, but learned a time. That's definitely where I launched my sales career. But you know, after about two years as a top performer there, I had one large sale where I actually sold to a government agency that hadn't been sold to before. So I was I was doing really well, but I wanted an environment where I could learn more. After about two years I got the Itch to leave and want it to join something earlier stage. Wow, okay, and so where'd you go? So I ended up going to a company called bread crumb. That group on was in the process of acquiring. They were small, though, at that point, you under ten people. Restaurant Tech Company. So we sold point of sale software. So I went from Bloomberg expense account wearing a suit to work and working, you know, covering multimillion dollar accounts, to slinging ninety nine a month software to pizza shops in the lower east side, you know, and cold calling like crazy. So it was a huge shock for me, but I look back on you know why I made that jump, and this is be my advice to anyone who's at a big corporate job and wants to jump to a smaller situation, is find someone that you can learn a ton from, and that's how I picked for a come over other opportunities, right like leaving Bloomberg. I could have worked a lot of places, but I met an entrepreneur who, the second I met him, Same Seth Harris. He was a CEO and founder of redcump. I knew that was someone that I could learn an immense amount from really quickly and I took the job. I mean I equip Bloomberg within the same day that I met seth. So it was a big risk but definitely worth taking. You don't fuck around that muster out over here. So we've got a ton of people and there's so many people out there that are working at, you know, what you would think of as fairly cushy or comfortable the very defined corporate jobs. How did you manage that search? You know, obviously you're sort of getting restless and you say to yourself, okay, I want something a little bit more exciting. I want to go work at an early stage company. How did you manage that process? How did you end up meeting seth in the first place? In where some pieces of advice you can give to the audience? So first thing is this, be honest with yourself about what your strengths are and weaknesses. Right. So I ended up looking at restaurant tech in particular because I had worked at restaurants for the last five years. Right. So I was a space that, although I had I was in financial services, I was really, really familiar with. I had been a waitress, I'd use point of sale, Shitty old point of sale systems, for years. So I got it right away. The problem and the solution made sense to me. So I think you know when you're starting to navigate this startup industry, which there's just thousands of options and you know it's a really fragmented space, is look for something that you have an advantage in, and that could be because you know the industry, because you've worked in it before because you know your parents were in that industry. Just give yourself an advantage. There's no reason to make more work for yourself. So that's how I was able to say okay, restaurants makes sense. And in full transparency, I got an inbound a lot of inbounds on linkedin. I know it. You get a lot of noise on Linkedin. Answer those messages. You never know which one is the right opportunity. So I had answered a group on actually reach out to me with a linkedin message saying hey, are you interested in doing food sales for us, and I said no, not, I want to go work at a start up and they said this is actually perfect where you know, it's in the process of acquiring the startup called bread chrome. Why don't you meet that founder? And I think that was the first time I'd ever answered an inbound linkedin message. So my advice is understand your strengths. It's really prioritize companies that fit that profile. Find someone that you can learn a ton of from and...

...then you get along with right like early stage, you need to like the people that you're working with because you're going to go through hell and back together and then answer in bound Linkedin to reach out to people. It's totally fine to send cold messages. That's some of the best hires I've ever made for someone that emailed in me directly and said Hey, I want to work for you and this is the reason why. Yeah, it's great advice. So you meet Seth. You quit Bloomberg and I think you know, to your credit, you were only there two years. That the reality that I've had, besides you, with people from Bloomberg is it's a little bit hit and miss if they've been there for like five, six, seventy years, because they sometimes perceive themselves to be a bit more entrepreneurial than the reality of how effective they actually are, because Bloomberg is such just a big company and so supportive, you know, and sometimes it's hard to lose that infrastructure. Yeah, and paycheck. I mean I'll be the first to say, like, if you're leaving that could you corporate job, do a work at an early stage start up? Be prepared to take a meaningful pay cut for at least a calendar year and financially prepared for that right. Like I think I took about a fifty percent pay cut my first year. I made up for that within a calendar year by getting promoted very quickly and earning a lot of commission. But it's a much different world, even just comp plan wise, at a large company often you're even up to seventy to ninety percent base salary and then bonus, whereas it startups you're often looking at a fifty split between base salary and commission. So there definitely are adjustments and planning that needs the need to happen prior to making that jump. But you're right, SAM it. People often say at large companies long for because it's comfortable. Right. They give you a ton of resources, and that some thing I definitely went through a little bit of shock when I first left. Is You don't realize how many resources you have when you're at a big company. So Bloomberg, for example, how to Proprietary C R and that they had made in house that was custom built for exactly what we needed as salespeople. When you go work for an only stage tech company, you're probably working out a google docs and maybe thinking about rolling out sales worce and you need to customize and build that from scratch. So just one example of how different resourcing is yeah, I know you're absolutely right. So you get to bread crome, you know, you readjust your lifestyle because you're a hustler, as you said, and you start selling pos terminals to crowded space. But you advanced pretty quickly. Walk us through sort of what happened over the next couple of years, particularly you know, one of the big questions that we get is, you know, I'm an individual contributor and I'm kicking ass, but how do I know that I will be a good manager and how do I prepare myself, if at all, to take that responsibility? So how did you figure out that you're going to be a manager? How did you evolve into a sales leader? Walk us through that progression. I knew I want to be a manager leaving Bloomberg, but I also knew that I was totally unqualified to be a manager. So what I actually asked to be a manager when I got the job at bread crime and they politely told me absolutely not could. As you for as Kate, asking is half the battle. So I went in there from day one saying what do I need to do to become a manager, and I was very clear with my boss about that right and I asked for frequent feedback and a frequent understanding of where am I now and what do I need to do to acquire the skills or experience set so that I can be a manager. Here my advice if you're a individual contributor, first thing is really think about if you want to be a manager, because there's two often separate career paths and sales. One is to continue on the individual contributor path, which in full transparency. Often you can make more money and you get a lot more flexibility and freedom. Right, if you're a killer individual contributor, you can, you know, go have a long lunch and have few glasses of wine. That's not happening when you're managing people. So I think first is decide if you want to be an individual contributor or a manager. If you get joy from coaching others and want to get a seat at the table and moved to a path of leadership, then that's great. Really phone in on what skills you need to develop, because bulk of your work as a manager involves managing people and People's emotions. So your Eq is much more important than actually your sales abilities. So I think for me. A lot of it was learning how to motivate people. So I immediately ask my boss what I needed to do to get there and I was asking for weekly feedback saying how am I doing and developing the skill set to become manager. So after because it was after three months, my manager at the time said, Hey, you're ready to be a manager, but you got to be the best...

...at sales because the team will never respect you otherwise. And when we had a team that was interesting ECLECTIC bunch. We had some people that have been in the restaurant industry for twenty plus years, we had some tech people, so it was a really diversity. Any sense, you have to blow out your target for the next two months, you have to double it. So I fought like hell to do that and I was new, so I didn't have a big pipeline. So I worked day and night. I used sales force in my advantage. I started doing my own on marketing campaigns. I was walking into restaurants for hours a day and I got the job dog. So I think my learning they're from going to be an IC to make that first jump to manager, which I don't think is a hard shop. I think the jump to senior managements harder, but I can. It's that little bit is figure out what you need to do to get that promotion and kill it and companies will respond. Well, if you're a top performer, don't ask for a promotion or more responsibility if you're not doing a great job at what your job description is right like. Earn the right to have an opinion and to ask for things, and that means crushing your job and then you can take on more. Yep, it's great. So many people come to me and they want to change and job, they want a different job when they're not performing very well at the existing job. You can't create an environment in a company where you get to constantly switch around and it just doesn't work unless you're really doing an exceptional job where you were originally hired for. So totally, I completely agree with you. So you get promoted. I mean it's still pretty quick. Your Theresa, it sounds like three months plus two months is five months. By months. Things move quick at bread crumb. I think I'm technically a millennial all, so that's a millennial promotion. Well, you're one of the good millennials because you've got the work ethic to back it up, to back up the sense title man. So what happened after that and how did you ultimately find your way from bread crumb to Rhonomy? Walk US through those steps. I'm at bread CRUMB bread come starts growing pretty quickly. I'm at this point a regional manager, technically so like directoral level. Had A team of ten people. was running the east coast sale, seemed. There was a west coast manager and a Midwest manager and the ORB was road pretty quickly and we decided that we needed a of sales and I wanted that job, but I knew I was the right person for that job and I knew I could do it. So I again asked for the job and again I'm immediately told No. So I'm pretty used to rejection at this point. And we start interviewing people for the head of sales job and I was on the interview circuit and we bring in fifty year old dude after fifty year old dude, that have you had twenty five years a point of sale experience to be the head of sales, and I'm interviewing all of these people and I'm saying I know I could do a better job than that. And we end up not finding the right fit for several months. So I'm killing it as the regional sales manager. My team is every single month about one hundred and twenty percent to goal. You winning the presidents club, all that stuff. So I just start doing the head of sales shop. I start leading sales wide initiatives, building out strategy, collaborating with the marketing department, collaborating with the account management or client success team. And after nine months of just doing the job and interviewing fifty year old man after Fisher old man, they eventually said, guess what, you just passed the interview in the jobs yours. So I ended up becoming head of sales there. That's far another six months took over the marketing team. So at the end of my time of bread crumb was running sales, marketing and sales ops and we had a large team. You know, we had forty sales people across three cities. I took the team from outside to inside really improve the efficiency of spun up additional revenue streams. We had not only the point of sale software but we were selling financing on the hardware as well as payment processing services. So we build a really awesome business. But at the end of my time they're it became clear that there was some transitioning going on with our relationship with group on and I was introduced to a VC firm you know from contact in New York. started just kind of seeing what was out there. I was still working full time at bread cram, but I wanted to understand my worth, and I'll say this for anyone who's been at a company for a long time. One of my mistakes that I made a pred cram was I should have done that earlier. I had no idea how much I was worth. I should have gotten paid more, for sure. So at least once a year just test your value on the market, because the market, especially in New York, tech is changing pretty rapidly and if you've been at one job for multiple years, there's a good shot that your pay and titles probably under market. Yeah, so you start meeting people, maybe who were the VC's that you were connecting with. I'm sure some of them are still close with yeah,...

I met a few and the one that actually ended up connecting me to rionomy was Sama. A mutual friend of ours is Brad from primary and he was great because he really, I think, gave me insights into what the tech landscape booked like in this is now in two thousand and fifteen, what the tech landscape looked like and help me navigate that, because I'd been heads down just operating business for the last three years. I was a little bit naive. So it was good to have somewhere that you could trust help you navigate that. And when I met he'd introduced me to a few companies. Real me was one of them, and I just immediately knew, based on the quality of the team and the size of the problem and the, you know, the strength of the product, that that was the right fit. That's awesome. Where you originally head of sales? Did you run marketing? At rehannomy too, I did not start running marketing. So I was hired as a VP of sales and there was a marketing lead that I was not responsible for, and then as time went on, and and this is something that I happened to me at bread comenary on me, I ended up taking over marketing. And this is something I think is really critical for early stage companies is having either marketing and sales be under one department or marketing and sales at least be really aligned. Why it's so important is because if you have marketing and sales budding heads, you're constantly going to have finger pointing, and I go with this, this conflict between the departments where marketing saying hey, sales, you stuck at closing our lead, sales is saying, marketing, your lead soccer, there's not enough of them. So the reality is to run a successful revenue or growth org you need to get highest quality leads as affordably as possible. And the only way you can do that as if you're looking at sales, you know sales Lee Generation, so bedrs, SDRs and marketingly generation holistically. So that's something that I worked to earn at both orgs by earning trust as a sales leader and then taking over marketing, and it's something I know. I would recommend anyone who's joining an early stage company to at least look for team where marketing and sales is very aligned, because it's going to lead to a more successful grow strategy. And do you feel like that alignment comes from giving marketing specific kind of closed revenue Kpis or responsibilities? Is that like? What are your strategies for driving alignment. Yeah, I think one is having joint goals that everyone's working to achieve. So I think we're just challenge. You. An into is when marketing just has a lead number target and they don't have any end of funnel targets like quality, meetings or revenue, they're just not incentivized to do the right things right there incentive, I see it, as many leads as possible in a quality that quality doesn't really matter. So I think one is making sure you have goals at the entire growth ORG is working towards. Achieving together is crucial, and to is compensating marketing professionals a little bit more like salespeople. Sales people are Lucky and we've been lucky, both of us m you know, we really get compensated well when we generate a lot of revenue. Historically, marketing hasn't been that way. So I'm a firm believer and it doesn't necessarily need to be a similar commission structure, but at least giving marketing bonuses based on the revenue that they're helping contribute to generate. One other thing that's critical to is is just messaging. So often, if you have the department's not speaking enough. Your messaging and marketing can sound totally different than what your sales met are women, are saying. Right. So if you look on the website, that should not sound all that different than what you salesperson over here is saying when they're talking to a prospect. To making sure messaging is aligned throughout both parts of the orders really critical because it gives the prospect a better experience and increases our wife they head of converting. Absolutely right. I think the point that you make about the compensation structure is really interesting. I think my experiences you have to find that marketer or that marketing team that's willing to embrace that variability and willing to truly understand that you know life is going to be a little bit more uncertain because it's not just going to be about the MQL. Is a function of this lead score and if you got twenty, then you got twenty and you can go home and not worry about whether they closed or not. So I think it's good feedback, good lessons. You've now, in a very short amount of time, moved from just being an individual contributor to a regional sales manager and then running a bunch of different teams. So what are some of the biggest lessons that you take? You know you had a comment offline about eighteen month cycles on your career. Walk us through what that means for people that are listening. Yeah, I think we're I've benefited the most is being open to taking a lot of risk and moving really quickly, especially in my early and mid twenty. So when I look back at my s...

...when what set me up? I was running sales at bread crumb and how do you know, forty sales people under me when I was twenty four, right before I turned twenty five. Really Young got that opportunity. So one is I took risk right like I jumped from this cushy corporate job. Took a big Pay Cup because I knew it would set me up for longer term success. You're able to take that type of risk when you're twenty one and just have to cover a rent right fast for ten years? If you have kids or you have larger bills, you might not be able to take that risk. So take risk young when you can. To is run your career in eighteen month cycles. What I mean by that is every eighteen months you need to have real growth and at least one of the three main areas of career that I always try to focus on. So first is cash. How much money are you making? Two is title, so what is your title and what type of position are you able to get? And then three is knowledge, and this is the most important. What are you learning? Because I will gladly, and this is what I did a bread crumb, take less money if I can learn a lot, because that is the most valuable asset of all. And if you're not really getting major growth one of those three buckets for in an eighteen month time period, it's time to go. So run eighteen month cycles on your career. It's okay to leave somewhere if you're not getting growth in one of those areas. But you don't need growth everywhere, right. So it's okay to take a cash hit if you're learning a ton or if you're going to get a title promotion. And I think timing is really key, right. So a lot of my success came from making deals internally, asking people from promotion and understanding what I needed to do to get those promotions, being extremely persistent and understanding what I had to do to get there. But make sure you ask at the right time. So one is ask when you have leveraged. You know. Don't ask when you just Miss Uota. Asked when you're when you're crushing your quota, and also ask when you know that your interest align with what the business needs. I think that's a mistake a lot of younger people make is it's all about me, but the reality is your boss's job, whether it's the CEO or the VP of sales, is to do what's right for the business. So you're going to be most successful and growing your career, growing your compensation if what you're asking for will also lead degree or success for the business. That's really good advice. The other thing that you're doing implicitly, because sometimes you don't have to ask. It's not necessarily you have to promote me right now, it's I want to be promoted, I want to be a VP of sales. What do I need to do to get there? Let's build a plan together, and I think a lot of people they don't ever actually make that explicit ask and they don't work backwards from okay, no problem if I'm if it's not the right time, but what are the milestones that I need to hit and then often forces the management to define what the responsibilities and with the requirements of the role are, which I think is also a healthy exercise completely and it makes you prepare for the role more effectively. So if you start, you know, working on that prep and more or less doing the role earlier on, you'll be a lot better at the role once you do it. Like in Hindst, I was actually a pretty bad manager for a supread crowd, but now I've had enough experience, I understand and I've learned from that. So I think you know, ask, really self, reflect and also be okay with rejection. I was told no every time I've asked for a promotion. More less, but no just means not right now, doesn't mean never. That is why you were a great salesperson. I have a quote just for so many people. They're just getting to management and you mentioned that you were shitty manager at first and now you've become a pretty good one. What are one or two or three key tips? Tactic Strategies, mindsets? How can someone be a great manager or just shortcut and, you know, not make some of the same mistakes that you made? Yeah, I think one if you're getting promoted from being a peer to being someone's manager, which I went through a bread crome, you're going to run into some awkward situations, right. So I think first is make sure the team believes that your job is to make their lives easier and make them more money. Right. If your team that you're now promoted to run thinks that you're going to roll out a bunch of things that are going to make their life more complicated, they're not going to want to rally behind you. So I think earn their trust by saying, Hey, guys, we're to do some things. They might not all be pleasant, but I promise my goal is to make you as much money as possible and help you with your career. So I think that's critical. First it is just really setting the stage for what your goals are. Second is I'd made the mistake of being way too distant from my team at first managing a team and being a director VP. The hardest...

...part of that is the people piece. Is Understanding what makes people take understanding how to make someone have a good day after having a bad day, understanding people's emotions, and I think I was concerned I was younger, that I didn't want to come across as being immature or someone's friend, so I over index. So I'm being cold and distancing myself from the team, and what that resulted in as a team that didn't really care about rallying behind me right because they didn't feel a personal connection. So after a few months I said, let me try to become closer to my team, understand, you know, about people's personal lives. And once I did that and once I got to know individuals and really got to know them as humans, I became a much, much better manager and more effective manager. We got way better results because I knew why they were coming to work every day. So I think really get to know your team and the people that work with you, because that will, you know, really really benefit the team's productivity. Yeah, it's so many people become managers and they feel like they need to present themselves in the image of what they think sort of like a tough person looks like totally I thought I was one. was like little kids wearing a suit, you know, I was trying to be something I was totally not. Well, it's great advice. You know, you started pump. I would love to talk about that a little bit. One of the questions is obviously you mentioned that you know women face a very specific and unique set of challenges. What are those challenges, in your opinion, and how should women in the work, specifically in sales and marketing? What do women need to do to make sure that they get the same opportunities, the same pay and all of the same glamor and accolades that men get, particularly when it comes to startups? Yeah, the main thing that pumps goal is isn't and we're not trying to say, Hey, we don't want to elevate men as well. Our goal is to say, Hey, we want to make sure women are getting the same opportunities, to your point, and getting paid the same as men are and are set up for success. I'll give you an example of one area where women are are different than men, especially on the sales and marketing side. So women generally make great sales people. They naturally have bills and inter personal skills that tend to translate to being successful account executives. But when you talk about women negotiating for themselves, they tend to be actually much worse than men, and it's interesting, especially around compensation. Women are generally pretty good at negotiating for developmental resources. Are Saying, hey, Sam, can I have additional education? Can I have some work life flexibility? Want to come to compensation. Historically, women are much worse at negotiating for themselves for compensation than men are. So that's one example of an area where pump has really focus on saying hey, how can we help women negotiates that their pay is at least on part with men. And that's not the only reason why there's a gender pay gap. There's a lot of other reasons, but our goal is to gridge that gap as much as we can. So our first event, actually a launch event, which was in June, was a huge success. We had one hundred of New York City's best women in growth. We did an awesome panel and was all around negotiating for yourself and giving true tactical advice about how you could increase the amount of money you're making today. And the response we've gotten it's just been incredible. I mean I got the text this week from a friend saying hey, I never asked for a raise outside of my annual review and I did that for the first time because of pumps event in June. I used these tactics. I learned from your speakers at that event and got my first rays out of annual cycle, but I've ever gone in ten years of work. What are some of the tactics share so that folks that weren't there maybe can learn a thing or two. Yeah, it was great. So we had a few VPS of sales that are actually in the revenue collective of Sam with US and a lot of their feedback. You know, it was around things that we've chatted about on this podcast. So one is nyming right. Ask at the right time when you have leverage. Don't ask when your boss is having a terrible day. Make sure you're setting yourself up for success. To is know what you're negotiating for and who you're negotiating with right and any concerns they'll have about you. So if you're asking for a promotion and a large rays, but you know that your boss is going to have to one or two concerns, prepare for those and address those initially, right before you even asked for the races. So address them head on. Three is make sure you understand you're worth. So if you're paid under market right now, that's a valid point to your boss. So make sure you have a clear understanding of your worth in the market and prepare that information. A lot of it's around preparation and timing, and also...

...it's don't be afraid to ask. A lot of the fear that women have in particular on negotiating for compensation is because it's often perceived as being manly or being too aggressive, and historically when women have asked for compensation changes raises, men find it to be too aggressive. It's not in line with an undoing air quotes. But of course you can't see right now how women should act in business. To know that you're going to deal often with those attitudes, in those feelings and be prepared to handle them, I think it's really, really good advice. A part of it is, you know, one of the things that you mentioned is a lot of people it's an abstract complaint, sometimes without a specific ask, and so one of the things I always tell people in any negotiation is if you want more money, have a number in mind, because it doesn't do me any good as your manager. You say okay, I want to raise I say how much, you say, well, I don't really know. It's like, okay, well then it's not quite clear that money is really the driving issue here. Something else is going on. And think about the business to the right. So if you're a killer salesperson, you've been doing ops work and then you've been going above and beyond and that's, you know, save the company from hiring a salesops person. That's a great point for your negotiation. So it's hey, Sam, you know I've been above and beyond. I've been doing some of this ops work, and OPS person costs seventy grand to hire a New York City and I've taken care of twenty five percent of that. So I deserve x rays just to right size my current income, let alone for the promotion that I'm asking for. I love it, honestly. Some of it is is just confidence and it's hard to replicate the confidence that you have. But you don't have that need for approval. You're not worried that you're going to come across, as you said, to aggressive. You're just saying this is the reality of the situation. It's capitalism, I'm doing the service and this is what it costs your spot on. Confidence is key and that's something with pump as we expand, I'd love to even go earlier to women as young as high school, because that's really why I'm building that confidence starts and I highly recommend people working in the hospitality industry because I think that's where I got a lot of my confidence. is being a waitress, right I learned how to upsell, make someone buy a bottle of wine, make them get dessert, being a lot of very awkward situations with clients which, at that point where you know people, I was waiting on, but it definitely was my starting point for getting confidence in dealing with other people. Yeah, it's great advice. Last question I have for this little section and then I want to sort of pay it forward and get some other thoughts as we're coming to the end of our time together. But you mentioned to me in a different context you said focus on cash compensation when it comes to start ups. I think that's maybe it's becoming more prevalent a point of view, but it's certainly controversial relative to like a couple years ago. So walk us through your thinking there. Yeah, the reality is, and I've learned this over the past few years, as startups you often really focus on your equity compensation because there's always, as a salesperson, there's generally three types of compensation that you get. You get your base salary, you get bonus or commission and then you get equity. And the reality is unless you join a company really early, you know seed, maybe series a, if you join a later stage company, the company has to have a really, really large exit for you to be able to make real money off of it for a few reasons. One is because you have to pay to exercise your options. Right. So this is, I think, something that a lot of people don't understand early on is you're not just getting shares for free. If you join a series B, Series C series company, you're getting options that you have to pay to exercise at a later point and then you would pay the taxes on those shares after you've exercised them. So it can be very, very expensive and was crippling to purchase your shares as an individual contributor salesperson. So because of that, it's best to optimize your cash and still fight for equity. Right. I'm not saying not fight for equity, but there's such a small percentage that your equity it will be worth an amount that really changes your life. Where your cash compensation can absolutely change your life much more quickly. So when you're negotiating for cash comp are you saying to the sales people out there, to your point, they're on fifty. Is it asked for a higher base? A lot of the CFOs out there say I'll give you a higher base and I'll give you a higher rot but you're going to have a higher quota. Does that factor into the consideration? You say, okay, fine, I'll sign up for a higher quota. How do you think of at that? Yeah, I think really know the business right, because you don't want to set yourself up for failure and if you're signing up for a higher quality at a higher base, that can be a slippery slope. So make sure you understand the historic performance of the business. One of other reps in this position done because you...

...don' want to sign up for something that you're just doomed for failure, because then that can result you actually get terminated. So I think one is be smart and don't send up for something that you can achieve just to get an extra ten grand on your base. Fight for a lot of upside. So make sure the compensation plan, the the commission piece has acceleration, which means for every dollar revenue that you generate over your goal, you get paid more than every dollar revenue you generated under hitting your goals. Look for acceleration, look for uncapped commission to make sure that if you just absolutely crush your quota that you could buy a fancy sports car and travel the world like you should be able to do that as a top four bing sales person. And make sure the plan is achievable, and what I mean by that is asked for the distribution of performance historically. So you want to know. Did only twenty percent of people hit target? If that's the case, and this is probably not an appropriate plan and the plan needs to be right sized, make sure that you're looking for at least sixty to seventy percent of the team achieving quota. It's really good feedback. So the hard ass CFOs in the world will say, Fineles, I'll give you acceleration, but I want deceleration to and I want you know if you get eighty percent of goal, you're not getting any percent of your of your Ote. You're getting sixty percent. How do you feel about that? And then the specific debate that I often have with CFOs is the kind of like the cliff where sometimes there's complans out there were like below fifty percent of your goal, you don't get anything at all. Do you have a point of view on those types of complaints? Yeah, I okay with having deceleration below one hundred percent. I think that's fair right. If you're getting paid more for outperforming, then you should also be penalized if you're underperforming. So I'm okay with that. But the cliff I'm not a huge fan of. So the issue I have with the cliff is if someone is not going to hit target or not going to clear the cliff and they understand that, it incentivises sandbagging and holding the deal till next month when they have a when they feel that they personally have a better shot of at least clearing the cliff to make some commission. So I never support things and complaints that and sent to buy Sam bagging because that's not good for the business. Yeah, also, the business still makes money when somebody makes a sales. So they're not really aligned and it frankly just sucks to have people make sales and not pay them anything. It's just not a fun feeling. Nothing kills morale more than having broke sales people. So I try to avoid that at all costs. Yeah, so a couple last questions, just highly tactical as we like to do. One of them is you know where in the sales enable men, sales technology world, you know the New York revenue collective has, you know, sponsor and podcast as a sponsor. What are some of the great tools that you use that you can live without? There's so many and I think that's one of the challenge is actually now is to not get overloaded with all the options. But I'm a huge insight squared fan. There are a sales insights company that, for a very small amount of operations, effort and implementation, you get an immense amount of insights and detail and value into what's going on in your sales funnel and it's actually incredible how little work you have to do for the amount of data you get from them. That's awesome. It's a great tool. It's always surprising because there's a group of sales ups people that they view it as sort of like a mark of shame if they have to go out and buy insighte squared, but it's still it makes a lot of things a lot easier and sometimes it's just better to just put it in not worry about a bunch yet. And if you're at an early stage company and don't have the resources to have a full time Dev on, a Bi tool for you to build out custom dashboards and you know, a tableau or similar product than inside scored is an awesome off the shelf option. Yeah, agreed. So you mentioned it before, but like any mentors or people that we should know about in your career, you just want to pay it forward. We can sort of go on linkedin look them up and maybe shoot him a who are some of the people that have influenced you our last couple of years? Definitely the CEO of bread CRUMB, STAP Harris. He taught me so many things. Taught Me Grit, taught me that you have problems every single day and basically you're paid as a leader at a start up to overcome them as quickly and effectively as possible. Definitely show me what leadership looks like. So he continues to be a big mentor of mine. He's a repeat startup founder. And then also I unfortunately live with a another founder, my husband, as a CEO of a company called electric. They're a series a company in New York, or about fifty five people now...

...that's just revolutionizing the IT World through slack. So it's really nice to have a sounding board over the dinner table to to talk about, you know, growth challenges and how to scale business. Yeah, and you guys do a bunch of deals together, right, you're doing real estate deals to go there and you're talking startup. So yeah, we just rant at each other about anything. We love anything that's the hustle, anyway to make money or interested in. I love it. Any books, podcasts, you know, any content that you consume to get better that that you want to share with the rest of the folks out there. There's so many good podcasts out there. So I think listen to podcast all the time. I'm a Tim Ferris Fan, which is, you know, everyone listens to I think, but I really enjoy his podcasts. You know, I'm not really loyal to one specific podcast, but if there's someone interesting on any podcast that I like, I'll listen to it. I'm currently reading the originals by Adam grant and it's phenomenal, highly recommended. It's about how to select or create original ideas and then how to actually act on them, and he's a psychologist and it's been fascinating to read. That's great advice. And then, lastly, give us your motto in life, because the one that you shared with me, I think, is one that I try to adhere to. So what's that? have an early morning routine. When I have a regimented early morning routine, I am so much more productive than when I don't and remove any optionality in the morning. Right. So, have your clothes picked out the night before. If you're a breakfast eater, have your breakfast ready to go. If you have to make decisions in the morning when you're a little groggy, it will slow you down. So if you're able to get up, deal with all of your personal be as, pay credit cards, answer you know your family's emails, pay the cable bill in your office by and already hit the gym and you're in the office by eight am, you are going to be more successful than everyone else in your mind will be more clear to tackle the day. What time do you try to wake up? If I'm really good on my routine, I'm not super early, like a six am is fine. I can get all that done, because if I have everything picked out the night before, I'm really fast in the morning, so I don't meet an hour. It's a deliy dollar around the apartment. Six is pretty good, especially if you're millennial. Most mollennials are. You know it's not six, I can assure you of that. So you don't have to get up a four hundred forty five. If you you know, remove a lot of the things that slow you down in the morning. It's great advice. Lastly, so if we want to get in touch, if there's women out there that want to join pomp or learn more, if they want to reach out to you for advice or Mentorship, is that okay, and what's your preferred method of communication? Absolutely go to pump womencom and we have our full list of events displayed. So please join us for event or you can email me at Liz at pump Womencom if you have a specific question or are curious to learn more. Wonderful, we will do it. I hope you get some emails and Liz, thanks so much for participating as great chat and with you. Thanks Sam. Hello everybody, it is SAM's corner. Wonderful Conversation with Lizzie Young, one of the founding members of the New York were at the new collective, so we see each other often and we're always excited. She's a really strong female leader in the sales community in the US, but specifically in the New York texting she just launched pump women. Please check it out, I think you know. We talked about a bunch of different things and a lot of it's just related to the frame. That you can extract from Liz is that she has a specific and intentional point of view and how she manages her career and she's not ashamed or self conscious about that, and I think that's really inspiring and something if you're young. It's not just about wanting more, it is about applying specific goals. If you want to promotion, you may not be ready, but understand what you need to do to get that promotion and specifically articulate the desire. Hey, I'd like to move up, I'd like to be a manager. What do I need to do? That's very different than kind of grumbling and not saying anything and then at the end of the year complaining and saying, why didn't they promote me? Well, sometimes, you know that old mantra. If you don't ask, you can't get. So make sure you articulate what your desires are, what your goals are. If you want more money, say it and say how much money you want again. Another problem negotiations. People ask for things, they don't know what they want. They just they're just unhappy. It's sort of like an existential angst. Every time I go into negotiation these days I know exactly...

...what I'm going for. I have a number in my head, I have a specific deal term that I'm looking for and and I know that when I get that, no matter what, I've got to be happy with it. So you can't have buyers for Morse after. Here's your rays. You said you wanted seventy. You're making a base of sixty. Here's your race to seventy. Say, Oh shit, they didn't give me seventy five. Well, that's on you if you didn't ask for it. So if you don't ask, you can't get. Be Intentional about your goals and don't be selfconscious. Just provide a framework for how you're going to achieve them. If you're not ready, understand what you need to do to get there. This has been Sam's corner and I'll talk to you soon. Everybody, to check out the show notes, see upcoming guests and play more episodes from our incredible lineup of sales leaders, visit sales hackercom and head to the PODCAST TAB. You'll find the sales hacking podcasts on itunes with Google play. And if you enjoyed the episode, please do share it with your peers on Linkedin, twitter, internal email, however you prefer. If you want to get in touch with me, you can find me on twitter Sam f Jacobs or on Linkedin at linkedincom and slash Sam f Jacobs. If you have feedback about the show, if you have guests that you think I should be focused on, if you would like to be a guest, feel free to reach out to me on Linkedin and we'll do our very, very best. So thank you so much, and do share the content if you find it to be interesting or engaging, and if you think I'm doing a Shitty job, let me know that as well. Now, big shout out to our sponsors for this episode. We've got to as you know, air call, which is your advanced call center software, complete business phone and contact center. One hundred percent natively integrated into any CRM, so really incredible technology and outreach. A customer engagement platform that helps efficiently and effectively engage prospects to drive more pipeline and close more deals. I will see you next time.

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