The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 4 years ago

2: The 25 Year Evolution of the Sales World w/ Steve Denton


On this episode of the Sales Hacker podcast, we talk with Steve Denton, President and Chief Revenue Officer of Collective.

What You’ll Learn

  • How to adapt in a sales world that is constantly changing
  • How to avoid wasting your existing opportunities and close the deals in front of you
  • Why you have to be the most prepared person in the room
  • The three biggest decisions you can make in your career

One, two, one, three, three Fo. Hi everyone and welcome to the Sales Hacker podcast on your host Sam Jacobs, founder of the New York revenue collective. Before we start, a quick thank you to this month's sales hacker podcast sponsor node. Nodes Ai Discovery Platform, can understand the meaning, context and connection between any person or company by proactively surfacing opportunities that are highly relevant and personalized in real time. Note is creating an entirely New Paradigm for sales and marketing professionals to grow pipeline and accelerate revenue velocity. Visit Info DOTNO DOT IO for which sales hacker to learn more. And now on with the show. Hey everybody, welcome back to the sales hacker podcast for episode two. I'm your host, Sam Jacobs, founder of the New York Revenue Collective, and today I've got a very special guest, Steve Denton, who is also a good friend and member of the New York revenue collective. Steve is currently president and Cro of collective. I. He's got over twenty five years leading fast growing private and public companies in a wide set of industries, including experience at Ebay, GSI, media link share Fedex and Pepsi. Steve's a serial entrepreneur who started two companies with three successful exits, and we're excited to have them here with us today. Steve, welcome, Hey, Sam, welcome me, I guess create welcome to it. We're here, brother, you're here, we're doing it's good to talk to you. Guess we'll welcome and I'm glad to have you. We're going to have a great conversation. First thing we always want to know is your baseball card stat Steve, at the very top of the interview. So your name Steve Denton, your president and chief Revenue Officer of collective. I give us the rough revenue range for collective? I sure, and I wish it was my rookie card, but I think just be you know, are in car we like to call it experienced in age. But so yeah, collective I headquartered here in New York City, Ai Company. The sales office is in the bay area and globally revenues anywhere between ten and twenty five billion. Privately held. We have about a hundred and twenty five employees across the globe and I looked after the revenue functions here at collective eye. So think about that. Is Sales and services. How big is that? That seals and services organization? So the sales and services organization right now break anywhere between Twenty One and twenty four folks. And how does it break out in terms of function? You investy ores, you have enterprises. Walk us through that really quickly. Yeah. So, without getting into a ton of details, on the client acquisition side, I'm huge, huge believer in a division of Labor. We have a large outbound SDR group with various titles that are cheating different things. So we have around FIF team folks that work in the SDR group right now and then they support five enterprise sellers. We started companies that have five hundred or more sales professionals within the organization at that's our sweet spot. So work in a variety of functions there to personalize that outreach. And then we have another group of SDRs that work in a stage that we called development. And the way we think about development think about sales pursuits that a seller might engage in on Opportunity. You know, if you look at the Oll a normal statistics, average sales professionals closing ten to twenty percent of their pipeline. So let's just call it fifteen. So with eighty five percent of that pipeline moving into a close loss or deferred or in those are like Ivan we both know, Sam those stages become like the land of the time for God like I've never seen. I've never seen that become an area that's mine and I just believe we've invested enough in there, but I don't want to continue to invest enterprise resources against it. So they move it to another str function called development, which is more about curation, more about nurturing, but also keeping those fires involved in what we're doing through events and education so that when they are ready to reengage, it hasn't been seven months and somebody's reached out to them. They're getting a constant touch with just a different angle, from a nurturing side, and...

I do that with a different group of SDRs on the development side. Yeah, I think, and I guess we can talk about this a little bit later, but the debate might be there. Does that? Is that a marketing function, our sales function? In which direction should a report to? Sure we'll talk about that when in your I think scrs are particular area of expertise for you. So I'm excited to chat about that. But one of the things I want to art with Steve. You've been doing this, as you mentioned. You our title on the Baseball Card would be experienced your vet. At this point you sold three companies and you are currently running one of the most promising startups in New York. So how do you think about what's different today versus twenty years ago for a sales professional? And specifically, you know, what do you think separates good from great twenty years ago versus good from great today? As you think about some of the folks listening being young sales professionals trying to become a Steve Denton one day? Sure, so I'll just related to my own personal experience. So when I was when I was twenty two years old and I got my first job out of school at Pepsi, and you knows, the sales rep for Pepsi and my job was to call on I called on large grocery stores and I think I was doing more merchandising than selling at the time, but I was responsible for those stores and selling incremental product and incremental displays, and we can talk about that. But then my second sales job I was a sales rep for Fedex and I was based down in Baltimore, Maryland. I handled certain ZIP codes in Baltimore and my responsibility was self that X to companies to ship products and goods. The difference back then was, you know, there wasn't. Buyers were not as informed. Right. So, whether I was with Pepsi or I was with Fed x, when I came and talked to the buyers of the prospects that I was selling to or my customers, they found out about that x from me right like. There's no Internet to do research, there were no linkedin user groups. You're buyers maybe had a club they went to dinner with once a quarter or they attended trade shows, but how they found out about your products or your services were either through television commercials, if you are a big enough company to pay for those, for your cells team, and that's why your sells team back in the day carried big briefcases with lots of brochures in there, whichause you couldn't just lip up a pdf file or send a video. Kreya, you were doing that, and that hand to hand combat. So while your basic sales skills were relatively similar, right, you had to be consultated, you had to advocate value, you had to be a trusted consultant, someone that you could you know, that you would buy from, that you would trust. You are also doing a ton of product education and you aren't as positioned when you came into a sale, like you aren't already predisposed because the research had not been done. And then the other thing that was a lot different than was, and this is going to sound crazy, it's a lot of folks listening, business cards mattered. When you got someone's business card, like you would put it in a binder with plastic, almost like a baseball card, and that has your network in the day, right, Sam, and that was your value, right, because that was your Rolodex, that was your value, like that's what you spent your life work creating this collection of customers and prospects and their business cards so you could get in touch with them, and you had their phone numbers, their direct dial phone numbers, but they didn't have email addresses. So now you know, you are all the clock forward. What's hugely different now the self professionals walk into a sales opportunity. They're probably, whether you look at CSO or whatever, statistic you read, you're already sixty percent predispis dispositions. Right that the research has been done back then. These buyers probably know more about the products and goods than obviously the seller that might be coming into sell them, and they certainly know more about their own buying situation than the seller coming in. So you're walking into a deal, frankly, much more disadvantaged than I was twenty years ago because your buyers are more informed and because your buyers are more informed. And think about buyers today. We're all consumers and if you think about how we shop and biased consumers, it's well researched. We checked it all out, we've booked, at reviews, we've priced, compared it. That the heat your transcends over to how they buy business goods and services. And as a seller, you walk into something that's very predisposition and you need... even be more informed and you need to be able to delivery personalized cell to each every one of those opportunities versus just dumping products. And I think the big transitions that sellers have had to make, but they had been of the advent of these tools and things like that. Is Number One, a part of your value as your network, right, so I can bet you pretty easily as a seller. I can check your linkedin profile, I can see other people you've sold to or other people you're connected with, and I can check out your organization. And I'm also expecting you to be more than brochure ware, because if you don't deliver to me in a selling engagement any more value than my ability just download things from your website or watch videos on your website, you're not adding enough value to age my disposition. So I think sellers today, how do you do that? How do you move from being brochure where to someone that's consultative, to use the coin of the realm in the word of the day. Sure well, you need to be informed, right. You can't show up on informed. So you need to be the most prepared person who walks in that room and, candidly, with today's tools and technologies, there's no excuse for a sales professional to walk into an opportunity ill informed and not educated like you. Should be following that buyer on twitter. You should understand what they're doing on Linkedin. You should have done your research to get an understanding us to who they are, what they do what they care about. You should have read that though financial reports, that they're publicly traded company. You should have looked at the company's twitter feed to see what the company's promoting and what they're talking about. You should not be walking into a situation ill informed. And then you need to look for opportunities to restate that value at every engagement. So like if someone says hey, what are your text fact you shouldn't just send the text spects over and say here they are. You should use that as an opportunity to restate value for whatever it is you're selling, whether it's the ease of implementation right or the value they're going to extract from that. Because you can't add value at every touch point, you might as well just say go to the website and download the text facts right when you've got to personalize that cell, and you should be able to do that. Doesn't sells professional today. So I can imagine a bunch of folks that have worked for me in the past saying see if I'd of to do that. I'd love to do the level of research that you're advocating. I actually don't have time. My Sdrs are booking me on consecutive thirty to forty five minute discovery calls throughout the day and I don't have time to do that kind of research. So I guess what's your response to that? And then the second question is just on a very tactical basis. How many good meetings do you think a good enterprise account executive could have in a day or a week and still be effective? So a whole lot of great questions and challenges there, right. So let's just start with you over arching topic, which is kind if you think about sales, whether you're a sales leader or your sales wrapped the whole function that you strip out the skills and all the things that you're doing there, it's really the decision around investment right of time and resources against an adjusted risk, adjusted way to return. So you've got to take better decisions around where you invest your time on quality prospects. But the other place where I see a ton of waste is in existing opportunities. I mean it's crazy, Sam if you think about that statistic that we talked about earlier with the sales professional only winning fifteen percent of their opportunities. And then the other crazy statistic is a sales professionals taking three to four times as long to lose a deal as they do to win a deal, and I've seen that across hundreds of sales organized. A hundred times as long to lose. Yep, three times as long to lose as it does to win. And so if you put those two numbers together and hey, why don't we just throw in the third crazy number, the only thing spend thirty five percent of your time actually selling. There's a whole lot of wasted effort and energy in there. So I think it has to start with where are you investing your time in? Are you investing your time in winnable opportunities and are you investing your time in the right opportunities? So somewhere along the line we forgot how to disqualify folks. And then the other thing that I...

...see happen quite a bit is reps will hold onto opportunities too long, Sam because the fear of losing it right. There's like this crushing fear of moving something to close. Loss will close. Loss just means they're not ready to buy now right. It doesn't mean it's lost forever in most cases, and reps are hesitant to do that because it's going to get taken from them. And I find that if you create an ecosystem or an atmosphere where it's okay for me to move something to close lost, as long as we're all transparent about it, and then I get visibility as a sales professional into the activity that's going on to try to get that back into a buying situation, that I'm much more comfortable moving that out and focusing my energy on the things that are winnable and developing things through my pipeline. Long answer to your questions or questions and but it starts with time, right and where do I invest my time as a seller or, even more importantly, as a manager of those sellers? Where am I allowing my investment of resources to spend their time? Because if you get that right and you qualify folks out that aren't good fit and in you're really narrowcast. You should be able to do that research and you also should be using the right tools and technologies to do that. Like that's not hard work to do. There are plenty of tools and technologies to help you get educated. Yeah, I think it's really interesting the impact that sales forcecom as a company has had on the selling process, because we're all using nomenclature. Maybe it originated from, you know, oracle or you know some of the early software enterprise software companies, but we all think about that word opportunity and I think there's different definitions of the word opportunity across different organizations and that's one of the big problems because of that different definition. I've seen account executives use opportunities as reminder items, almost where, to your point, they're scared to close lost because that's the way that they sort of keep track of who they're supposed to follow up with. And so some of that is, hey, maybe you know the definition of an opportunity differs across organizations. And then the second part of it is maybe they can use tasks or some other items to serve as reminders. Personally, you know, I think of an opportunity as the number, the situation where we are mutually agreed that we are in an active commercial conversation. We are both myself and the prospect agree we're going to make a decision at some point soon whether or not we're going to do business together. How do you define and do agree or disagree with that definition? So in the most part, I agree with the definition right, which is an opportunity should be defined as K are. Are we talking to the right people that can take the decision, or are we speaking to people who are going to influence that decision and are going to introduce US and guide us to those people in short order? Is Their budget established right? Can you pay for it? Can you afford it, or is there are their plans to get that budget based on a pursuit and improving value? And there's there an expectation that we're going to go through a discovery process together with an outcome being a decision, and I think those things need to be established. You see, establish up front so that you can create an opportunity. I think when you see these cells site, and I get that, you've got companies that have thirty days cell cycles, Ninety Day cell cycles, eighteen month cell cycles, and I understand it runs the gamut and it's based on the value of what you're selling. So I think many cells leaders and we've all seen through our career these deals that should be taking ninety days or a hundred and twenty days just drag out for two hundred and forty days or a year. And typically that's a results of it really wasn't an opportunity when you established it. It was a league and maybe you've only really been in an opportunity stage now for the last sixty days. I think there's a lot that causes that. I think one of the biggest culprits that cause that our cells leadership teams themselves when they come up with dopee metrics like you need three times pipe or you need five times you quoted pipe. Like, what was it ten years ago, Sam, you need a three times your quote in pipe, and now it's you need five times your quote in pipe. It's because the reps are less effective or because the quality of the pipeline is touteriory.

I'm on the side of the sense that says if you tell a rerap he needs five or she needs five times their quoted in pipeline, you are going to have four times of that fictitious. It's not real, but they're just they're managing it to a number you've established. And if that's what you got to do because some walky things you're doing, that's fine, but that's not real pipe and that's how those problems start to happen. Yeah, I think the other thing that happens is that somebody in sales ups or somebody somewhere has made a decision to create the opportunity when the first meeting is set, the first even qualification meeting, before it even moves into discovery. And so I think a lot of pipeline coverage ratios are referencing more rigid qualification criteria than actually exist in sales organizations. So they're creating tons and tons of opportunities only when the meeting is scheduled, not even when the meeting is held, and so you've got a lot of stuff there that hasn't even been qualified but is being called pipeline. Sure, and not to cast blame on any particular application or tool, but I don't know that crm is helping us with that. And whether you call it sales force or air dynamics or whatever, crm we it's been around for twenty years. Right. It is a database. Let's all agree we need a database to archive and holder stuff, but what is it doing to help you close more deals? It's just our taving archiving items you already know. Yeah, and if I said this sentence, if it's not in sales force. How would you complete it? It didn't happen, it doesn't exist, it didn't happen. Right there, anyone who's listening to that? It just had the same thought. Well, if the whole industry knows that as the answer to that statement, I think you can fundamentally say there's a problem. If everybody says the same thing and it's been around for twenty years. There's a better way to solve these problems, and that's why I look at technologies. I don't think CRM's the problem. I just think that we got to recognize it for what it is, which is a database, and it's not the SOLV all for moving sales organizations forward. You have to be able to get out of what are we logging and what we already know and what are we capturing? Like let's broaden it out and try to figure out the things we don't know. One hundred percent. I couldn't agree with you more and we're both, you know, thinking a lot about in your company is about Ai and machine learning and and my whole concept is always been you do something over here and then you always have to log it and record it somewhere else, meeting the database or the CRM and obviously the future is going to be. Everything you do is automatically recorded, transcribe, digested and analyzed. You don't have to log anything, you just live your life, do your things and patterns. Analysis and recommendations are going to be presented to you as a consequence of all of your actions, not of the act recording of these actions, at a later day. I agree with the hundred percent. I mean, and we already experience that Sam in our personal life when we use driving navigation applications like waves. We just punch up our destination right. Everything else is logged for us, our speed, our location, inferences from the drivers around us, new routes it populated for us and a rival time gets calculated for us as we continue to drive, so we can make decisions right. Call ahead, I'm going to be twenty minutes late. Start the meeting without me. Hey, it looks like I'm going to be thirty minutes late. Call me and you can ignore those routes. You run your playbook right, stay on the Alie, run your playbook and show up in the Hamptons two hours late, or take the navigation that's happening automatically for you. And try to improve that outcome. And I see that exists in our personal life and many of our professional functions like marketing and HR and for our protection. But when we still look at sales man, we are in many cases that we are it is like one thousand nine hundred and eighty four and and we are and a hand combat and this crazy weekly inspection process of you know, tell me about this, tell me about that. And I don't know sales leaders who bat to the business to be detectives, and I think they got into the business because, I want to be coaches, they wanted to be mentors, wanted to drive revenue and have an impact on the company,...

...not spend Thursday of Friday being, you know, Johnnie deal detective. I agree, right, and you don't have to be. So that's a goodness. Today's technology, modern technology, allows you to get beyond that. So, Steve, we're talking about navigation and a lot of people listening are thinking about navigating their careers. So of the things you and I were talking about offline is those three or four critical decisions that you make in your career and maybe they don't seem as big in the moment, but they end up being fundamentally important and significant in ways that are sometimes hard to appreciate. So walk us through some of those decisions that you made on the way to selling three companies and being president in Cro of collective. I sure the first one, the first one at the time. So I'm working for Pepsi. I'm down in Virginia, Beast Virginia, of twenty three year old guy, I don't know anyone in town and I got these eight stores I'm responsible for. The problem I had was these eight stores, someone had to be first and someone had to be last. Typically, the the store that was first was really happy with you and the store that was last was not happy with you because they're Pepsi. Section was terrible all day long and you couldn't really change that on a daily basis because the trucks ran a certain route. So, as a result, right it was challenging and traffics bad and there's a ton of people in the store and even though you're wearing a Pepsi shirt, people ask you where the bread is. It just becomes a very frustrating, challenging place. But you spent all the time a grocery stores. So for me personally, I just want to find a better way to do it and since I was single and living in a town I didn't know anybody. My stores were seven stores or they had stockboison there at night, so I just ask my store managers could I I worked the store at night like that. I merchandise it at night, and that allowed a couple of things for me. Number One, and I got the job done in half the time. There's no traffic, there's no one in the store, you can move a lot quicker. So I got my job done in half the time. But the other benefit was my eighth store managers came into their stores every morning that Pepsi Section was perfect, everything was faced out, everything was perfect, and then that allowed me to coming to that store later in the day, not wearing a Pepsi Shirt with soda stains all over it, but in a suit, and actually deal with them more on a professional level. And because I was taking care of them, they started taking care of me. I started selling more stuff to them, getting incremental displays, making my numbers, and that act alone allowed me to really blow my numbers up in a great way to where I got promoted out of that job in a year where my peers were doing that job for six months and at the time Samura and I look back on it, all I was trying to do is figure out a easier way to do my job and and not deal with traffic. But the reality of that is I was solving my customers problem. I just wasn't thinking about at the time like I was solving my customers problem in a creative way that was meaningful for them. So that move, getting me promoted, got me on a career trajectory that really set the stage for moving forward. And then the second one that I'll tell you real quick was I was a district manager at that X I was down in Baltimore having having a great run and this New York Metro region opened up and and this place was a death trap. I mean the last three are regional sales managers that had taken the job had all gotten fired. It was just this was not a place that x sales was thriving back at the time, and I don't know, they might have gone through every district manager in the company to kind of find a guy, and I was the youngest in the company at the time as at Dsm, and when they asked me would you consider moving to New York and taking the New York Metro region? I mean, I knew it could be a career killer, but also knew, at the age of twenty eight, I wasn't going to get an opportunity be an RS M for about another twelve years and I felt comfortable enough that I could do it. I have a supportive family. Such took that job and we had a great turnaround. We won region of the year the next year and that set me up to become a director at st x, and becoming a managing director at St x set me up to go be the VPS cells at link share. When the Messrs who found a fan share, we're looking for someone to run the sales organization and that would be the third big decision I made. But the Fedex thing, the reason...

I tell that story, and I love when young people ask me that question anyway, it's do the hard stuff right and if you can take the hard job in the company, the company that nobody wants, the company that's been you know, the job that's been the challenge, and you go into that and you can execute there, you set yourself up for huge wins. You set yourself up for huge wins at the company you're working for. You never know when it's going to get acquired. So you want to be in the right place and your experiences insane. And then, on the flip side of that yet could kill your career. But the reality of it is like you taking that hard job and I always find that risk is worth it. So if you did the job nobody wants, people were respected. If you can execute well in that, and that's set you up, the leap frog your peers and it does amazing things down the road. And the other thing in the turnaround is you. You're going to hire great people, you're going to see inspiring stories, you're going to inspire people achieve greatness because you have that underdog mentality. And just look what the Philadelphia Eagles did this year, right. I mean yeah, then underdog mentality you can execute and it's so rewarding, not just personally, but it'll also become very rewarding for you professionally. So those are the things I think about. Yeah, now, that makes a lot of sense. I think one of the questions people might have released I have all the time. You know, imagine you are a twenty eight year old, maybe you've been a really good at count executive and you're thinking about your next Gig, your next job. How do you evaluate? You know, and you and I were talking about offline. First of all, how do you evaluate startups? But how do you evaluate startups and different startups in the context of big companies like a gardener or a forester or sales force or Linkedin, that are coming at you with probably higher comp higher base camp and more structure and stability? How do you choose between startups and which start up or the big corporate route, and how do you think about that in the course of your career? Sure, so, I made that decision when I was leaving Fed X. I was a managing director Fed X. There's sixteen of us, had a great career going a thousand sales people working for me in the northeast and I took a calculated risk with a young family, right to go via stps sales for an early stage Internet company in one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine, and that could have been disastrous. The good news is right. We built the monster there and we sold that thing direct and for half a billion dollars in no five. So what do you look at. First thing you have to look at is the company you're going to go work for. So let's set aside, like what it is you want to do and why you're making the move. Ready, you're running to something versus running from something. But when I evaluate companies, whether I'm making an investment in that company or I'm deciding to go run it or join it with a set of peers, is number one, you know, is do you believe in the idea? Right? Is Fundamentally like, do you think this is smart and do you believe in that business right? Because you can't fake that. Everybody can smell it. The second thing is right is the leadership team, a team that has a history of getting people to better places and of success. Right. So are you aligning yourself with winners there? And then you got to look at this. The technology sound right? So is it in market or is it is it Alpha? Do they have customers? And then what's the funding look like? Because if those four things don't line up and you only have two legs of those stool of the stool and place, there is going to be a tough outcome for you. So you need to get comfortable with all four of those things or if you're going to compromise and make sure only that there's only three that are in place, you need to understand that risk going into that. When you're working for a large company, obviously those decisions aren't is important because they're already vetted out. And then it's it's what do you want to accomplish? So if you're going to a smaller company to get more experienced, work hand in hand with founders and leaders on a one to one basis, almost like getting a master's and whatever it is you're going into, then understand that's part of the deal and you're doing it for that because you looking at elevate your career and get into other jobs and higher levels of responsibility earlier than you would if you are in a big organization. They both have their risks, right. I mean from a turnoverstandpoint,...

...especially in sales. I mean twenty five percent annual turnover has been the number for the last fifteen years and if you look at the difference between, you know, desired turnover or regretted turnover and you compared a big company or small company, there's very little difference because not a function of am I going to make it it becomes more a function of the company going to make it and, even if it doesn't, did you get what you wanted out of that experience so that you continue to move your career forward? So there's a lot you need to take into consideration. And then the last thing it's just how much risk are you willing to take at that stage of your of your life in your career to make that investmenting you? Because what I will tell you, someone who worked at Pepsi and set acts and then had early stage companies and then sold them the big companies and was back at big companies, that when you're in a small, earlier stage company, say sub fifty million dollars, you're working with the leadership team, you're working with the founders. That exposure, that experience is going to be invaluable to you, because you wouldn't you're not going to get that level of exposure working for a large company, me because you're working for a guy who's working for a Gal who's working for a guy's working for a gal working for a guy who works for the guy. It's just not close enough to it. That's how you got to think, but that's how I thought about it. That's what I would advise people think about. I think that makes a lot of sense and and I think you know, the only things I would add to that would be to develop a point of you know, when you're thinking about the quality of the business or the quality of a product, you need to have developed some kind of framework to make that decision or determination, because it can't just be I think it's cool, and that's why, yeah, especially as you get older in your career and as you progress, you need to have a business framework first and foremost, so that you can you have some some lens through which you can say this is a good company or a bad company, not just I think that's neat, because lots of neat ideas don't have a market size or a pricing structure or a business structure that is going to enable them to succeed, no matter if the product is, you know, fun or not. So totally agree. Like you can't face your career just on being doing cool stuff. It's like you can't face your product development on that's going to be neat and cool. I always tell people when they're looking at Opportunity Sam, after they've bet it it out, I'm like, can you explain to me in thirty seconds what it is they do and why I should care. And if you can't do that, then you either need to revisit it or exit it because it's either not clear to you, you're not going to be able to articulate it or you don't understand. It's just the something wonky there. Like you should be able to tell somebody in thirty seconds, to us, what you do and why this care. Yeah, no, I totally agree. So listen to see. We're running low on time. We're not out. I wanted to ask you some quick fire questions just to get your take on common topics of the day and sales land and get your read out on them. That's I'm good. Sure. So, we talked about this a little bit earlier, but you know there's a debate out there in the world. Should stee ours report to marketing or sale? What do you think? Monthly, quarterly or annual quotas? How do you think about it and answer any way that you want. Depends on the quotea. You're caring right and your cell cycle. If you're closing a lot of sub ninety day or sub forty five day deals, you know quarterly quota makes sense, or even a monthly depending on your cell cycle and the size of your deals you're selling. Like if you're very transactional, monthly quotas, of quarterly quotas. If more of an enterprise sale, ail, annual quoteas which have quarterly kickers of quarterly checkens, make a lot of sense. So that's how I think about it. So let's take SMB, mid market and enterprise. When you think about the right whatever that means to you, the right quota for each of those frames or each of those you know deal sizes. What do you think they are? Well, like I said, it depends, like, yeah, you could be selling smb, depends on the deal value and your cell cycle. But I think if you're running cell cycles, that are and also if you get a lot of inbound. Let's do SMB, mostly inbound. Twenty one to twenty eight days cell cycle, maybe like an eightzero average deal. What do you think that quotas should be? MONTHLY DOLLAR VALUE OF IT? Well, eight thousand dollar average deal size. A ton of inbound.

So what your successful reps are closing what at three to five deals a month? Maybe, yeah, I think so. So it feels like forty grand a month. Let them catch it up through the course of the quarter, right. So true it up at the quarter play pay it monthly, because if you got that kind of quote and you get that kind of a Aov or average order value or contract value, I mean it's a very transactional sale. Your sellers are probably not making huge base salaries, so it's really important that they're getting comped on a monthly basis because that's a huge part of their month and month living. That's why I ask about average order value, because that's probably younger rap or earlier in their career, wrap not as heavy, not base salaries or probably not ambitious, and there's a big chunk of that space based on that monthly bonus. And that could be different in the rent or not, whereas you know, your enterprise or mid market folks are probably making a bigger base salary, certainly the same levers as far as commissions go, but it's just a different threshold there. So I guess and be on the monthly side, quarterly. That's how I think about it. Enterprise Reps, what do you think their annual quota should be? And again, I know it depends on deal value, but if you're looking at a business and you're at Fiftyzero feet. What's the right quota for you to say that's a proper Endu prize annual quota? And are we pure hunting or we hunting on the farm? Here is and that Dow or you know, it's net new pure hunting with one to two SDRs that are supporting you, so that you're doing maybe twenty percent of your pipelines prospected, but most of it's coming from somebody else. Right, you still got to close it. There's no existing relationship there. You get to go leverage. So that's true. So I would say you're probably on the hook for eight hundred two one point two million dollars in net new revenue a year in that case, right, because you probably have a oves of eighty two hundred and fifty grand, maybe more. So you're probably eight hundred two one point two million, depending on where you are actually. You know, geography doesn't really matter because you know in today's world you just need to be near a major airport. You're probably looking at base salaries there between one hundred and thirty five and one seventy and I would expect those people would be looking at double that up. Sign in a million bucks, right. So you sign a million dollars up, you're probably looking for somebody to get paid two hundred and Fiftyzero Bucks, which is expensive right. It's twenty five percent of your sale, but that's why you get that in year two and your three when your cost cell goes down. So I would think millions, a million two. Those end a price sellers are probably looking at three hundred thousand dollar price tacks. I love it. Thank you for the details. We need those details on the salesacker podcast. Last question for you. So you know, obviously, besides collective, I tell us about your favorite weapon or tool in your sales stack, your marketing stacks, some piece of technology, some great fender that you want to give a little bit of love to, besides my own. Yes, sir, Mine's the best. So I'll tell you what we are self. Stack is for my sbrs, it's a lot on the front end of the stack. But tell you what, there's a little company that is out in the bay area called a company. Company thinks ACC or act, but it's a company and it think about it like Owler, but it's kind of like a combination of Owler and Linkedin cell's navigator and my calendar and my prospect list and it does a really nice job surfacing for me when those folks are in the news or when those folks are mentioned or when those folks or speaking on panel or it's just it's a really for me. It's a really easy way to understand, you know, how those folks are and it's delivered in my inbox every morning and I find that to be a great use of technology to synthesize that for me so that I can and the social selling tools are built right into it so that I can execute right from there. And then if I could give one more if you don't mind. So there's a company called there's a lot of dialers out there and dialing technology is nothing new, but human assist dialing is actually you pay for it. But I'll tell you what we used to company called connecting cell. I think Sam, you've got some experience with this, but they did go work for us at the Muse. Yep, if you're...

...doing some spr work and you need to have a lot of conversations and then you're used to making a hundred dollars a day and leave a ninety eight voice smells and lucky. If you talk to two people, you plug in the connect and self, you're going to have about twenty conversations in two hours because somebody else is doing the dialing for you and someone else is doing the navigating of the phone trees and you're not talking unless somebody is live on the other end of the phone. So if you need to get velocity, you pay for it. It's not cheap. But if you need to drive velocity against a target list, I found that connecting cell technology to be easy to implement, easy to use and allowed a ton of ad testing and drove a ton of velocity and I was really impressed with Chris Peel and his team over there connecting self. And just to be clear, you are not a shareholder of connecting self. I am not a shareholder. I am just a I am not a shareholder, I'm a friend. I wasn't a friend when I first met him, but I'm also I'm a really happy customer and because the velocity is just astonishing for me and I've never seen anything like it. Well, that is fantastic. Last question for you, Stephen. Thank you so much for participating. This has been amazing so it's collective. I hiring? Yes, I am looking personally. I am looking for to enterprise sales professionals who have, you know, anywhere between five or more years of enterprise sales experience, someone who is usful, wants to make the market versus compete in a market that's already made. Someone who's accustomed to Evangelical Sale, and I'm looking for those roles right now. Preferably one in New York one in the bay area, but, like I said, I'm geographically agnostic. So I'm looking personally looking for those roles right now. So, as detinet collective, I or hit me up on Linkedin and you love to talk to you about it. That sounds Fantas as to Steve, thank you so much. I will see you at the next New York revenue collective meet up and until then, be well. Thank you, Sam. I have a great day. Hi everybody, what a fantastic interview with Steve Denton. He really is. He's insightful and he's got great insights for people that are looking to manage their careers in the right way. So I hope you got something out of it. This is Sam's corner and my thoughts are really around evaluating a company in the right way. So Steve talked about taking on risk reward profiles for corner of a big company versus a small company. But I would really, really encourage everybody to do and it's the biggest mistake I see sales managers make that want to be a VP of sales, and even vp of sales make this mistake. They don't have a framework for how to evaluate whether a company is any good or not. So really quickly, and you can see this in my writings on Linkedin. But start with a product. Start with the market. We need a really big market. We need a product people loved. From there we can look at marketing and sales. Now one of the ways that you want to understand whether a business is in good shape or not is by looking at the unit economics. So if a company has a really, really high customer acquisition cost and it's not getting paid back very quickly, something is wrong. Probably it's hard to find new customers because people aren't hearing good things about the product. Meanwhile, think about what happens when you've got great word of mouth. You've got a great product that people love, they tell their friends. As a consequence. When you show up as a salesperson, it's a lot easier to make that all you see that in higher win rates and you see that in organic and bound leads and you see it, of course, in lower customer acquisition cost so when you're evaluating your next opportunity, to think about the unit economics for the business and think about the market size and think about whether it's a product that people really truly love and if it has those things, it might be a great opportunity. So this has been Sam's corner. If you want to get in touch with me, you can follow me on twitter at Sam f Jacobs. You can also find me on Linkedin and I hope to talk to you soon. Thanks so much for tuning in. To check out the show notes, see upcoming guests and play more episodes from our incredible lineup of sales leaders, visit sales hackercom podcast. You can also find the sales hacking podcast on itunes or Google play. If you enjoyed this episode, please give us a share on Linkedin, twitter or any other social media platform. And finally, special thanks again to this month's sponsor,... node. See more at Info dotnode dot IO. Forward sales hacker. Finally, if you want to get in touch with me, find me on twitter at Sam f Jacobs or on Linkedin at Linkedincom, slash in slash Sam f Jacobs. I'll see you next time.

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