The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

2: The 25 Year Evolution of the Sales World w/ Steve Denton


On this episode of the Sales Hacker podcast, we talk with Steve Denton, President and Chief Revenue Officer of Collective.

What You’ll Learn

  • How to adapt in a sales world that is constantly changing
  • How to avoid wasting your existing opportunities and close the deals in front of you
  • Why you have to be the most prepared person in the room
  • The three biggest decisions you can make in your career

One two one thee three O hi everyone and welcome to the SalesHacker podcast on your host Sam Jacobs, Fouder, the New York revenue collective.Before we start a quick thank you to this months. Sales, macker, podcast,sponsor node nodes, AI discovery platform can understand the meaningcontext and connection between any person or company by proactivelysurfacing opportunities that are highly relevant and personalized in real time.Note ice, creating an entirely new paradigm for sales and marketingprofessionals to grow hipeline and accelerate revenen vilosity visitinpodot, no don Io, for which lash sales tacker to learn more and now on,with the show everybody welcome back to the SalesHacker podcast for episode to I'm, your host Sam Jacobs, founder of the NewYork revenue, collective and today, I've got a very special gass, SteveDenton, who is also a good friend and member of the New York revenue.Collective Steve is currently president and Siro of collective E. HE's got overtwenty five years, leading fast growing private public companies in a wide setof industries, including experience at Ebay, GSI media link, share Fedex andPepsi Steves, a serial entrepreneur who started two companies with threesuccessful accests and we're excited to have them here with us today. SteveWelcome, Hey Sam welcome me, I guess Cray Br'r here we're doing IA owell welcomeand I'm glad to have you we're going to have a great conversation. First thingwe always want to know is your baseball card statsteve at the very top of theinterview, so your name's Steve Denton, your president and chief RevenueOfficer of collective eye, give us the rough revenue range for collective. Isure- and I wish it was my Rooki card, but I think just be yeah oaring card welike to call it experienced an age but so yeah, Collecto y headquarter here inNew York City, Ai Company for sales oppices in the bay area and golvelyrevenues anwer between ten and twenty five million privately held. We haveabout a hundred and twenty five employees across the globe, and Ilooked after the revenue function. Herea Collectiv eye so think about thatas no sells and ser. How big is that that sells and services organization,so the Seles and services organization right now, Brek anywhere between twenty one andtwenty four coak? And how does it break out in terms of function? You have strs,you have NRPRI walk us through that really quickly, yeah. So withoutgetting into a ton of details on the cline acquisition side, huge, hugebeliever in a divisional labor, we have a large albounsdr group, various titlesthat are cheating different things. So we have around fifteen folks that workin the SR group right now and then they support five enterprise sellers. Westarted companies that have five hundred or more sales professionalswithin the organization that this ar first sweet spot, so working a varietyof hunctions there to personalize that outreach, and then we have anothergroup of SDRs that work in a stage that we call development and the way wethink about development, to think about sales pursuits that a seller mightengage in an opportunity. You know if you look at the otnormal statistics,average Seles professionals closing ten to twenty percent of their pipeline, solet's just call it fifteen. So with eighty five percent of that tipelinemoving into close loss or deferred or- and those are like- I mean we both know-Sam those- they just become like the land of the time forgot like I've,never seen. I've never seen that become an area, that's mine and I just believewe have invested enough in there, but I don't want to continue to investenterprise resources against it. So t e move it to another. SDR function calleddevelopment which is more about duration, more about nurturing, butalso keeping those fires involved in what we're doing through events andeducation, so that when they are ready to reengage, it hasn't been sevenmonths since somebody's reached out to them they're getting a constant touchwith just a different angle from a...

...nurturing side, and I do that with adifferent group of strs on the development side. Yeah. I think- and Iguess we can talk about this a little bit later, but the debate might bethere. Does that is that a marketing function or sales function in whichdirection should ave report to tur talk about that and your, I think, SDRs arparticular area of expertise for you. So I'm excited to chat about that, butone of the things I want to start with stive youve been doing this, as youmentioned, you are title on the Baseball Card would be experienced youra vet at this point. You sold three companies and you are currentlylearning one of the the most promising startups in New York. So how do youthink about what's different today versus twenty years ago for a sales?Professional? And specifically, you know? What do you think separates goodfrom grat twenty years ago versus good from great today, as you think aboutsome of the folks listening being young sales professionals trying to become aSteve Denton one day, sure so ill just related to my own personal experience?So when I was when I was twenty two years old and I got my first job out ofschool at Pepsi and Yeaa sales re up for Pepsi and my job was to call on. Icalled on large grocery stores, and I think I was doing more merchandisingthan selling at the time, but I was responsible for those stores andselling inpremental product and incremental displays, and we can talkabout that, but then my second sales job, I was a sales rep for FEDX and Iwas based down in Baltimore Maryland. I handled certain ift codes in Baltimoreand my responsibility was self pedex to companies, woship products and goods.The difference back then, was you know there. Wasn't buyers were not asimportant right so when whether I was Wi Pepsi or I was with Fetax when Icame and talked to the buyers and prospects that I was selling to ore, mycustomers, they found out about setx from me right, like there's no Internetto do research. There were no Linkedin user groups, your buyers maybe had aclub. They went to dinner with once a quarter or they tended trade shows, buthow they found out about your products or your services were either throughtelevision commercials. If you are a big enough company to pay for those foryourself t, that's why your sells team back in the day carried big brief caseswith lots of broshures in there, because you couldn't just lip up pdffior send a video Okrea. You were doing that a hand to hand combat. So whileyour basic cell skills were relatively similar right, you had to beconsultated. You had to advocate value. You had to be a trusted consultant,someone that you could you know that you would bui from the you oud trust.You were also doing a ton of product education and you weren't as positionedwhen you came into a sale like you weren't already predisposed, becausethe research had not been done and then the other thing. It was a lot differentthan was, and this is going to sound crazy to a lot of folks. Listeningbusiness cards mattered when you got someone's business card like you, wouldput it in a binder with plastic, almost like a baseball card and that Wasa inthe day, right Samand. That was your value right, because that was your roleAfdak. That was your value like that's what you spent your life worth,creating this collection of customers and prospects and their business cards,so you could get in touch with them and you had their phone numbers, theirdirect dial home numbers because they didn't have email ddresses. So now youknow you rall the clock forward. What's hugely different, now the sellsprofessionals walkd into a sales opportunity, they're, probably whetheryou look at CSO or whatever statistics you read you're already. Sixty percentpredes dispositions right that the research has been done back. Manthesebuyers probably know more about thes products and goods than obviously theseller that might be coming into sell them, and they certainly know moreabout their own buying situation than a seller coming in so you're walking intoa deal frankly much more disadvantaged than I was twenty years ago, becauseyour fires are more informed and because your fuyeres are more informedand think about buyers. Today, we're all consumers and if you think abouthow we shop and biased onsumors, it's well researched e, checked it all out.We've looked at reviews, Wev chice, compared it that behaved transcendsover to how they buy business, goods and services and as a seller, you walkinto something that's very predisposition and you need to even bemore informed an you need to be able to...

...deliverate personalized cell to eachever every one of those opportunities versus just dumping products, and Ithink the big transitions that sellers have had to make wit. The ABBEN playthe had been of these tools, and things like that is number one. A part of yourvalue is your network right, so I can bet you pretty easily. As a seller, Ican check your Linton profile. I can see other people you've sold to orother people you're connected with, and I can check out your organization andI'm also expecting you to be more than Brocerwere, because if you don'tdeliver to me in a selling engagement, any more value than my ability, justdownload things from your website or watch videos on your website, you're,not adding enough value to change my disposition. So I seenk sellers today.How do you do that? How do you move from being brochure where to someonethat's consultative, to use the coin of the realm in the word of the day cure?Well, you need to be informed right. You can't show up on inform, so youneed to be the most prepared person who walks in that room and candidly withtoday's tools and technologies. There's no excuse stor, Seles Professional, towalk into an opportunity, ill informed and not educated, but you should befollowing that bier on twitter. You should understand what they're doing onlink in. You should have done your research to get an understanding as towho they are what they do, what they care about. We should have read thatTSO financial reports of their publicly traded company. You should have lookedat the company's twitter feed to see what the companyis promoting and whatthey're talking about. You should not be walking into a situation, filinformed and then youn need to look for opportunities to restate that value atevery engagement. So like. If someone says hey, what are your text specks?You shouldn't just send the text specks over and say here they are. You shoulduse that as an opportunity to restate value for whatever it is you're selling,whether it's the ease of implementation right or the value Hayre going toextract from that, because you can't add value at every touchpoint. Youmight as well just say, go to the website and download the textbacxsright. We you've got to personalize that sale and you should be able to dothat as a sels professional today. So I can imagine a bunch of folks that haveworked for me in the past, saying Seeif, I'd love to do that. I'd love to do thelevel of research that you're advocating. I actually don't have time.My Sdrs are booking me on consecutive thirty to forty five minute. Discoverycalls throughout the day, and I don't have time to do that kind of research.So I guess what's your response to that and then the second question is just ona very tactical basis. How many good meetings do you think a good enterpriseaccount executive could have in a day or a week and still be effective, so awhole lot of great questions and challenges there right. So, let's juststart with the overarching topic, which is time if you think about sales,whether you're a sales leader or your sales wrapd, you know the wholefunction, you strippaout the skills and all the things that you're doing there.It's really a decision around investment right of time and resourcesagainst an adjusted risk, adjusted Rad a return, so you've got to take betterdecisions around where you invest your time, onquality prospects, but theother place where I see a ton O of waste is in existing opportunities. Imean it's crazy Samif if you think about that statistic that we talkedabout earlier e sales, professional, only winning fifteen percent of theiropportunities and then the other crazy statistic is a sales professionalstaking three to four times as long to lose a deal as they do. Tho winnadealand ive seen that across punches to sales organs, UN RE TIMES AS LONG TOLOSE YEP three times is long to lose as it does to win. So if you put those twonumbers together and hey, why don't we just throw in the third crazy number?The only thin spend thirty? Five percent of your time actually sellingthere's a whole lot of wasted, effort and energy in there. So I think it hasto start with. Where are you investing your time and are you investing yourtime in winnable opportunities, and are you investing your time in the rightopportunities so somewhere along the line? We forgot how to disqualify folksand then the other thing that I see...

...happen quite a bit is reps will holdonto opportunities too long Sam, because the fear of losing it right.There's like this, crushing fear of moving something to close lost, watlcouse loss just means they're not ready to buy now right, it doesn't mean it'slost forever in most cases and raps are hesitant to do that, because it's goingto get taken from them, and I find that if you create an ecosystem or anatmosphere where it's okay for me to move something to close lost as long aswe're all transparent about it, and then I get visibility as a salesprofessional into the activity. That's going on to try to get that back into abuying situation, SI'm much more comfortable. Moving that out andfocusing my energy on the things that are winnable and developing thingsthrough my pipeline long answer to your questions or questions Sam, but itstarts with time right and where do I invest my time as a seller or even moreimportantly, as a manager of those sellers? Where am I allowing myinvestment, the resources to spend their time? Because if you get thatright- and you qualifies books out that aren't good fit to in your reallynarrow cast, you should be able to do that research. But you also should beusing the right tools and technologies to do that. Like that's, not hard workto do. There are plenty of tools and technologies to help you get educatedyeah. I think it's really interesting. The impact that sells forcom as acompany has had on the selling process because we're all using noman clature,maybe it originated from you, know, oracle or you know some of the earlysoftware enterprise software companies. But we all think about that wordopportunity and I think, there's different definitions of the wordopportunity across different organizations and that's one of the bigproblems because of that different definition. I've seen accountexecutives, use opportunities as reminder items almost where to yourpoint: they're scared to close lost, because that's the way that they sortof keep track of who they're supposed to follow up with, and so some of thatis hay. Maybe you know the definition of an opportunity differs acrossorganizations and then the second part of it is maybe they can use tasks orsome other items to serv ace reminders. Personally, you know, I think, of anopportunity as the number the situation where we are mutually agreed, that weare in an active commercial conversation. Wer are both myself andthe prospect degree we're going to make a decision at some point soon, whetheror not we're going to do business together. How do you define in youagree or disagree with that definition? So an the most part. I agree with theudefinition right, which is an opportunity should be defined as okay.Are we talking to the right people that can take the decision or alwaysspeaking, to people who are going to influence that decision and are goingto introduce US and guide us to those people in short order? Is Their budgetestablished right? Can you pay for it? Can you afford it or is there, are therpans to get that budget based on a pursuit, indproving value, and is therean expectation that we're going to go through a discovery process togetherwith outcome being a decision, and I think those things need to beestablished? You see stabish up front so that you can create an opportunity.I think when you see these cells Syke, then I get that you've got companiesthat have thirty day cell cycles, nintydcell cycles eighteen month,sellcycles and I understand it- runs the gamit and it's based on the valueof what you're selling. So I think many sales leaders and we've all seenthrough our career. These deals that should be taking ninety days or ahundred and twenty days just drag out for two hundred and forty days or ayear, and typically that's the result of it really wasn't an opportunity whenyou established it. It was a league and maybe you've only really been an anopportunity stage now for the last sixty days, I think there's a lot thatcauses that I think one of the biggest pulprirts that cause that or sellsleadership teams themselves when they come up with dopy metrics like you needthree times pipe or you need five times you quoted piht like what was it tenyears ago, Sam you needed three times your quotein tipt, and now it's youneed five times your quotein pipe. I because the raps are less effective orbecause the quality of the pipeline is... Cery, I'm on the side of the sensethat says, if you tell a rap, he needs five or she needs five times or quotain pipeline. You are going to have four times of that fictitious. It's not weal,but they're, just they're, managing it to a number you've established and ifthat's what you got to do, because some walky things you're doing that's fine,but that's not real pipe and that's how those problems start that yeah. I thinkthe other thing that happens is that somebody in sales, opps or somebodysomewhere has made a decision to create the opportunity when the first meetingis set, the first even qualification meeting before it even moves intodiscovery, and so I think a lot of pipon coverage ratios are referencingmore rigid qualification criteria than actually exist in sales organizations,so they're creating tons and tons of opportunities. Only when the meeting isscheduled, not even when the meeting is held, and so you've got a lot of stuffthere that hasn't even been qualified but as being called pipeline sure andnot to cast blame on any particular application or tool. But I don't knowthat crm is helping us with that and whether you call it you know, sale,spors or ar dynamics or whatever Seram. We it's been around for twenty yearsright. It is a database. LHET's all agree. We need a database to archiveand whole stuff, but what is it doing to help you close more deals? It's justartavin archiving items. You already know yeah and if I said this sentence,if it's not in sales force, how would you complete it? It didn't happen, itdoesn't exist, it didn't happen right, ther, anyone who's. Listening to that,I just had the same thought. Well, if the whole industry knows that, as theanswer to that statement, I think you can fundamentally say there's a problemif everybody says the same thing and it's been around for twenty years,there's a better way to solve these problems a and that's whyre. I look attechnologies a I don't think crms the problem. I just think that we got torecognize it for what it is, which is a database and it's not the solvall formoving sales organizations forward. You have to be able to get out of what arewe logging and what we already know and what are we capturing like? Let's broadit out and try to tigure out the things we don't know the one hundred percent,I couldn't agree with you more and we're both you know. Thinking a lotabout in your company is about Ai and machine learning. N and my wholeconcept is always been you do something over here and then you always have tolog it and record it somewhere else. Meeting this database for the CRM andobviously the future is going to be everything you do is automaticallyrecorded, transcribe digested and analyzed you don't have to log anything.You just live your life. Do your things and patterns, analysis andrecommendations are going to be presented to you as a consequence ofall of your actions, not of the ACDE recording of thise actions at a laterdate. I agree with you on a percent I mean, and we already experience thatSam ind, our personal life, when we use driving navigation applications likeways we just bunch up our destiny right. Everything else is logged for us orspeed our location inferences from the drivers around us new routs, itpopulated for us an a rival time gets calculated for us as we continue todrive, so we can make decisions right, call ahead, I'm going to be twentyminutes late start the meeting without me: Hey, it looks like I'm going, Ta bethirty minutes. Late call me and you can ignore those routes. You run yourplaybook right, stay on the lie, run your playbook and show up in theHamptons two hours late or take the navigation. That's happeningautomatically for you and try to improve that outcome, and I see thatexist in our personal lives and many of our professional functions likemarketing and HR and for protection. But when we still look at sales man, weare in many cases that weare it is Li, one thousand nine hundred and eightyfour and and we are and e had combat, and this Azy beekly inpection processof you know tell me about this. Tell me about that, and I don't know salesleaders who, back to the business of Dedetec an I think they got into thebusiness because win to be coaches. They wanted to be mentors, wanted todrive ravenue and have an ettact on the... not spend Thursday of Friday.Being you K, ow Donni, Dal detective. I agree right and you don't have to be sothat's a good dis. Today's technology, modern technology, allows you to getbeyond that. So Steve, we're talking about navigation and a lot of peoplelistening are thinking about navigating their careers. So one of the things youand I were talking about offline is those three or four critical decisionsthat you make in your career, and maybe they don't seem as big in the moment,but they end up being fundamentally important and significant in ways thatare sometimes hard to appreciate. So walk us through some of those decisionsthat you made on the way to selling three companies and being presidentnCro of Collectiv by sure the first one, the first one at the time. So I'mworking for Papse, I'm down in Virginia Beact, Virginia a twenty three year oldguy. I don't know anyone in town and I got these stores on responsible for theproblem I had was these eight stores. You know someone had to be first andsomeone had to be last typically, the store that was first was really happywith you, and the store that was last was not happy with you, because TheyrPetsu secion was terrible all day long and you couldn't really change that ona daily basis, because the trucks ran a certain route. So, as a result right Iwas challenging and traffics bad and there's a ton of people in the storeand even though you're wearing a Pepsi shirt people ask you where the bread is.It just becomes a very frustrating challenging place, but you spend a lotof time, AF grocery stores. So for me personally, I just wantd to find abetter way to do it, and since I was single and living in town, I didn'tknow anybody. My stores were twenty four seven stores or they had spockpoison there at night. So I just askd my storm managers. Could I at workedour store at night like cad? I merchandize it at night and thatallowed a couple of things for me number one. I got the job done in halfthe time. There's no traffic, there's no one in the store. You can move a lotquicker, so I got my job done in half e time, but the other benefit was my agestore. Manageust came into their stores every morning that Pepsi Section wasperfect. Everything was sfaced out. Everything was perfect and then thatallowed me coming to that store later in the day, not wearing a Pepsi Shirtwith Soda Stans all over it, but in a suit and actually deal with them moreon a professional level, and because I was taking care of them, they startedtaking care of me. I started selling more stuff to them. Getting ancrometaldisplays, making my numbers and that act alone allowed me to really blow mynumbers up in a great way to where I got promoted out of that job in a yearwhere my peers were doing that job for six months and at the time, Sam Rigdt Ilooke back on it all I was just trying to do- was figure out a easier way todo my job and and not deal with traffic, but the reality of that is. I wasSolvedon my customers problem. I just wasn't thinking about at the time likeI was solving my customers problem in a creative way that was meaningful forthem, so that move getting me promoted got me on a career to jectory thatreally set the stage for moving forward and then the second one that I'll tellyou real quick was. I was a district manager at sedx. I was down inBaltimore having having a great run and this New York Metro region opened up,and this place was a death trap. I mean the last three. Our regional salesmanagers that had taken the job had all gotten fired. It was just this was nota place that ex sales was thriving back at the time and I w they might havegone through every district manager in the company to kind of find a guy, andI was the youngest in the company at the time. It's a DSM and when theyasked me, would you consider moving to New York and Takin The New Yorkmetroregion? I mean I knew it could be a career killer, but also knew at theage of twenty eight. I wasn't going to get an opportunity in RSM for aboutanother twelve years, and I felt comfortable enough that I could do it.I had a supportive family, so I took that job. We had a great turnaround. Wewone region of the year the next year and that set me up to become a directorat senx and becoming a managing a director at sedex. Set me up to go bethe vpsls at link share when the MESSERS who found is in share werelooking for someone Erin that sales organization, and that would be thethird big decision I made, but the Fedex thing. The reason I tell thatstory- and I love when young people ask... that question anyway. It's do thehard stuff right and if you can take the hard job in the company, thecompany that nobody wants, the company- that's been, you know the job, that'sbeen the Tallenge and you go into that and you can execute there. You setyourself up for huge wits. You set yourself up for huge wins at thecompany you're working for you never know when it's going to get acquired,so you want to be in the right place and your experience is insane and thenon the floip side of that yeah could kill your career, but the reality of itis like you taking that hard job and I always find that risk is worth it. Soif you do the job nobody wants, people were respected. If you can execute wellin that, and that sets you up, the lite fro your peers and it do amazing thingsdown the road and the other thing in the turnaround. Is You you're going tohire great people you're going to see inspiring stories you're going toinspire people achieve greatness, because you have that underdogmentality and just look what the Philadelphia egoes dit this year rightI mean Yeh than underdog mentality. You can execute and it's so rewarding, notjust personally, but it'll also become very rewarding for you professionally.So those are the things I think o t yeah. Now that makes a lot of sense. Ithink one of the questions people might have- or at least I have all the timeyou know imagine you are a twenty eight year old. Maybe you've been a reallygood account, executive and you're thinking about your next Gig, your nextjob. How do you evaluate you know an you and I were talking about offline?First of all, how do you evaluate startups? But how do you ve evaluatecartups and different startups in the context of big companies like agardener or a forester or sales force, or linked in that are coming at you,with probably higher comp higher base comp and more structure and stability?How do you choose between startups and which startup or the big corporateroute? Now? Do you think about that in the course of your career sure? So Imade that decision when I was leaving sedex, I was a mangy director, O fedaxthere 's sixteen of us had a great career going, a thousand cales peopleworking for me in the northeast, and I took a calculated risk with a youngfamily right to go via Sdpsales for a unrearly stage: Internet Comcpanyn,onethousand, nine hundred and ninety nine, and that could have beendisastrous. The good news is right: We guilt the monster there and we sillthat thing: therax Tan for half a bilindollars, an o five. So what do youlook at first thing you have to look at. Is the company you're going to go workfor so, let's set aside like what it is you want to do and why you're makingthe move ready you running to something versus running from something, but whenI evaluate companies, whether I'm making an investment in that company orI'm deciding to go, run it or join it with the the set of peers. Is NumberOne you know is: Do you believe in the idea right? It's fundamentally like doyou think this is smart and do you believe in that business right, becauseyou can't sake that an everybody can smell it? The second thing is: is theleadership team, a team that has a history of getting people to betterplaces and of success right, so are you aligning yourself with winners there,and then you got to look at these. The technology sound right, so is it inmarket or is it is it Alfa like? Do they have customers and then what's thefunding look like because if those four things don't line up- and you only havetwo legs of those stool of the stool and place there I's going to be a toughoutcome for you, so you need to get comfortable with all four of thosethings or, if you're going to compromise and make sure only thatthere's only three that are in place. You need to understand that risk goinginto that when you're working for a large company. Obviously thosedecisions aren't as important because they're already vet ed out and thenit's it s. What do you want to accomplish so, if you're going to asmaller company to get more experience or candid hand with founders andleaders on a oneder one basis, almost like getting a masters and whatever itis you're going into then understand. That's part of the deal and you'redoing it for that, because you're looking at elevate your career and getinto other jobs and higher levels AF responsibility earlier than you would.If you are in a big organization, they don't have thei risks right, I meanfrom a terrover standpoint, Specaly in...

...sales I mean twenty five percent annualturnover has been the number for the last fifteen years and if you look atthe difference between, you know, desire turnover or regret it turnover,and you compare a big company or small company, there's very little difference,ecause, not a function of, am I going to make it. It becomes more o functionof the company going to make it, and even if it doesn't, did you get whatyou wanted out of that experience so that you continue to move your careerforward. So there's a lot. You need to take into consideration and then thelast thing is just how much brisk are you willing to take it that stage ofyour of your life ind your career, to make that investment in you? Becausewhat I will tell you, someone who worked at Pepsi and SEDEX and then hadearly states companies and then sold them the big companies and was back atbig companies that, when you're in a small earlier stage, company, say subfifty million dollars, you're working with the leadership to you're workingwith the founders that exposure, that experience is going to be invaluable toyou, because you wouldn't you're not going to get that level of exposureworking for a large company, because you're working for a guys s wookingforward Gal who's working for guys looking for a Gal, is working for a guywho works for the guy he's just not close enough to it. That's how you gotta think, but that's how I thought about it, an that's what I would advisepeople think about. I think it makes a lot of sense and I think you know h theonly things I would add to that would be to develop a point of you know whenyou're thinking about the quality of the business or the quality of aproduct, you need to have developed some kind of framework to make thatdecision or determination, because it can't just be. I think, it's cool andthat's why yeah, especially as you get older in your career and as youprogress, you need to have a business framework first and Formo, so that youcan. You have some some lens through which you can say this is a goodcompany or a bad company. Not just, I think, that's neat, because lots ofneat ideas don't have a market size or a pricing structure or a businessstructure that is going to enable them to succeed. No matter if the product is,you know fun or not so totally agree like you can't base your career rearjust on being doing cool stuff. Just like you can't base your productdevelopment on that's going to be neat and cool. I ways tell people whenthey're looking at opportunity, Sam after they betted it out I'm like. Canyou explain to me in thirty seconds what it is they do and why I shouldcare, and if you can't do that, then you either need to be visit it or exitit, because it's eitheur not clear to you you're not going to be able toarticulate it or you don't understand it's just just something. Wonky therelike you, should be able to tell somebody in thirty seconds to less whatyou do, and why does you care yeah? No, I totally agree so. Listen Ste, we'rerunning low on time, we're not out. I wanted to ask you some quick firequestions just to get your take on common topics of the day in sales landand get your read out on them that sound good sure. So we talked aboutthis a little bit earlier, but you know: There's a debate out there in the worldshould SDRs report to marketing or sale. What do you think monthly, quarterly orannual quotas? How do you think about it and answer any way that you wantdepends on the Quotea, you're carring right and your selfcycle if you'reclosing a lot of subninety day or some forty five day deals, yeah quarterlyquota makes sense, or even a monthly, depending on your Sel pcycle ind, thesize of your tails, you'r selling, like if you're, very transactional monthlyquot, is quarterly quoters. It ' more of an enterprise sale annial annualquotas, which have quarterly ticters of quarterly checkens, make a lot of sense.So that's how I think about it. So, let's take SMB midmarket and enterprisewhen you think about the right, whatever that means to you the rightquota for each of those frames or each of those you know deal sizes. What doyou think they are well like? I said it depends like yeah. You could be sellingSMB depends on the deal value and your self cycle, but I think if you'rerunning sell, pcycles that are and also if you get a lot of Inbow, let's do SMB,mostly inbound twenty one to twenty eight day cell cycle, maybe like aneight thousand dollar average deal. What do you think that quota should beMON ALLAR VALUE OF IT? WHATYOU say: eight thousand dollar average deal size,a ton of inbound, so what your...

...successful raps ar closing what threeto five deals a month. Maybe I think so so it feels like forty grand a month.Let him catch it up to the course of the quarter right so threw it up at thequarterplacpay it monthly, because if you got that kind of quota- and you gotthat kind of Aov for average order, value or contract value, I mean that'sa very transactional sale. Your sellers are probably not making huge pacesalaries, so it's really important that they're getting comped on a monthlybasis because that's a huge part of their month and month living. That'swhy I asked about average order value, because that's probably younger rap orearlier in their career rap, not as heavy, not base salaries, a probablynot ambitious and there's big chunk of that space based on that monthly bonusand that could be diffr paing the rent or not, whereas you know yourenterpriseor mid market folks, probably making a bigger base salary, certainlythe same levers as far as commissions go, but it's just a differentthreshhold there. So I think GE ten be on the monthly side quarterly. That'show I think about it: ENTERPRISE RAPS! What do you think their annual quotashould be? And again I know it depends on deal value, but if you're looking ata business and you're at fifty Thousan feet, what's the right quota for you tosay that's a proper enerprise annual quota and are we pure haunting or arewe R, Wer Notn on the farm here his in that now ir? You know it's net new,pure hunting, with one to twosdrs that are supporting you so that you're doingmaybe twenty percent of your pipe lines prospected, but most of it's comingfrom somebody else right, but you still got to close it there's no existingrelationship. There you get to go leverage, so that's Tu, so I would sayyou're, probably on the hook for eight hundred to one point: two milliondollars in net new revenue a year in that case right because you probablyhave aovs of eighty to hundred and fifty grand, maybe more so youre,probably eight hundred to one point: two million you know depending on whereyou are. Actually you know, geography doesn't really matter because you knowin today's world. You just need to be near a major airport, you're, probablylooking at base salaries there between hundred and thirty five and one seventy,and I would expect those people would be looking at double that up sign in amillion bucks right. So you sign a million dollars up you're, probablylooking for somebody to get paid two hundred and fifty Zand Bucks, which isexpensive right. It's twenty five percent of your sale, but that's whyyou get that year, two and your three. When your cost self goes down, so Iwould think millions a million two, thoseenterprice sellers are probably looking at three hundred thousand dollar pricetacks. I love it! Thank you for those details. We need those details on thesaleshacer podcast last question for you, so you know. Obviously, besidescollective, I tell us about your favorite weapon or tool in your salestock. Your marketing stack some piece of technology, some great vender, thatyou want to give a little bit of love to. Besides my own, yes, Sir mins thebest so I'll tell you what we our self stack is for my sbrs. It's a lot on thefront end of the stack but tell you what there's a little company that isout in a the area called a company company, Thi, ACC or AC, but it's acompany and it think about it, like Owler, but it's kind of like acombination of owler and Waden sels navigator and my calendar and myprospect list, and it does a really Nice Job Surfacsceng. For me, whenthose folks are in the news for when those folks are mentioned or win, thosefolks are speaking on panel or you know it's just it's a really for me. It's areally easy way to understand. You Know How those folks are its delivered inMyinbox every morning, and I find that be a great use of technology tosymthesize that for me, so that I can and t e social selling tools are builtright into it, so that I can execute right from there and then, if I couldgive one more, you can, if you don't mind so, there's a company Le There's,Lotof dialers out there and dialing technology is nothing new, but humanassisttialing is actually pay for it. But I'll tell you what we used thecompany called connect and cell. I think Sam you've got some experiencewith this, but they did go work for us... the Muse Yep. If you're doing someSDR work and you need to have a lot of conversations, I mean you're used totaking a hundred dollars a day and leave a ninety, eight Boyce smells andlucky. If you talk to two people, you plug into connectand cell you're, goingto have about twenty conversations in two hours, because somebody else isdoing the dialing for you and someone else is doing the navigating of phonetrees and you're not talking unless somebody is live on the other end ofthe phone. So if you need to get melocity aw, you pay for it, it's notcheap, but if you need to drive velocity against a target list, I foundthat tomating self technology to tbe EA, O the implement easy to use and alloweda ton of AV testing and drove a ton of Elasy, and I was really impressed withCris Pale and his team over there connect himself and just to be clear.You are not a shareholder of connecting, so I am not a shareholder. I am just A.I am not a shareholder, I'm a friend I wasn't a friend when I first met him,but I'm also I'm a really happy customer and because the velocity isjust astonishing for me and I've never seen anything like well. That isfantastic. Last question for you Steven. Thank you. So much for participating.This has been amazing, so it's Collectede by hiring. Yes, I am lookingpersonally am looking for two enterprise sales professionals who haveyou know anywhere between five or more years of enterprise, Seles experience,someone who I used, who wants to make a market versus compeque in a market?That's already made someone who's accustomed to evangelical sale and I'mlooking for those roles right now, preferably one in New York, one in thebay area, but, like I said, I'm geographically agnostic, so I'm lookingpersionally looking for those roles right now, so sdetn tat, collective iorhit me up on linked in and we love to talk to you about it. That soundsfantastic Steve. Thank you! So much. I will see you at the next New Yorkrevenue, collective meetup and until then be well. Thank you. Sam have agreat day everybody. What a fantastic interviewwith Steve Denton. He really is he's insightful and he's got great insightsfor people that are looking to manage their careers in the right way. So Ihope you got something out of it. This is Sam's corner and my thoughts arereally around evaluating the company in the right way. So Steve talked abouttaking on risk award profiles, forcorn wit big company versus small company,but I would really really encourage everybody to do it. It's the biggestmistake. I see sales managers make that want to be a vpsls and even vpsalesmake this mistake. They don't have a framework for how to evaluate whether acompany is any good or not so really quickly, and you can see this in mywritings on Linkedin but start with the product start with the market. We needa really big market. We need the product people love from there. We canlook at marketing and sales now one of the ways that you want to understandwhether a business is in good shape or not is by looking at the unit economics.So if a company has a really really high customer rcquisition cost and it'snot getting paid back very quickly, something is wrong. Probably it's hardto find new customers, because people aren't hearing good things about theproduct, meanwhile think about what happens when you've got great. Word ofmouth you've got a great product of people love, they tell their friends asa consequlence when you show uff as a salesperson. It's a lot easier to makethat sale. You see that in higher win rates- and you see that in organic inbound leads- and you see it, of course- in lower customer acquisition cost. Sowhen you're evaluating your next opportunity, think about the uniteconomics for the business and think about the market size and think aboutwhether it's a product that people really truly love and if it has thosethings, it might be a great opportunity. So this has been Sam's corner. If youwant to get in touch with me, you can follow me on twitter at Sam, F Jacobs.You can also find me on Linkein, and I hope to talk to you soon, thanks somuch for tuning in to check out the show, notes, seeupcoming guests and play more episodes from our incredible line. UPPOF salesleaders visit sales, hackercom podcast, can also find the saletacking podcaston itens or popl play. If you enjoyed this episode, please give us a share.IRM linked in twitter or any other... media platform and finallyspecial thinks again to this month, sponsor at node Seymore at INFO got notot io forward sales tactor. Finally, if you want to get in touch with me,find me on twitter, at Sam f Jacobs or on Linkdon at Linoncom, Inslah SAMF,Jacobs, I'll, see you next time.

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