The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

21. The Making of a Top-Producing Silicon Valley VP of Sales w/ Mark Cranney

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

On this 1x1 interview with Mark Cranney, the Chief Commercial Officer of SignalFx, we chat about the key elements of sales leadership and his journey to being a top VP of Sales.

One two one tw three Fo: I folks welcome to the sale, tackerpodcast super exciting week. We've got mark cranny on the podcast this week,which is amazing. The first thing we want to do as always ist thank oursponsors, so we've got to as we will have through the fall. The first is Ericall the phone system designed for the modern sales team. Air Call seamlesslyintegrates into your crm, eliminating data entry for your reps and providingyou with greater visability into your team's performance through it. Thisreporting, when it's time to scale you can add new lines and minutes and useincall coaching to reduce ramptime for your reps visit ther called at ioforward, slash salestacker, to see why thousands of great companies like DonenBrad Street pipe drives and Uber Trust air call for them. Wis, critical salesconversations and our second sponsor is outreached out isle. The leading salesengagement platform, ou reach, triples e productivity of sales teams andempowers them to drive, predictable and measurable revenue growth byprioritizing the right activities and scaling. Customer engagement withintelligent automation, outreach makes customer facing teams more effectiveand improves his ability into what really drives results hop over tooutreached a iole fold. Lash sales hacker to see owt thousands ofcustomers in putting cloudera glass door of Pandora and zoo rely onoutreach to the rether higher revenue for sales rap. So without further dolet's listen to mark cranny, who wis very, very well known hes, mentioned inthe hard thing about part things by Ben Horrowoits, famous Silichon Valley, Croand DP sales, and has built a number of companies well past. The hundredmillion mark super honor to have mark on the show. So, let's take a listen high folks welcome to the Sales Hackerpodcast. It's your friendly neighborhood host Sam Jacobs. I amreally delighted and honor to share the microphone today with Mark Cranney, whoa lot of us have read about know about, but who may be new to some of you folks.So let me give mark's quick background he's. Currently, a chief commercialofficer at signal FX, but prior to joining signal effects. Mark was anoperating partner at Endreson, Horowitz silicon vally venture capital firm oversix billion under management, one of the more well known and prestigious vcs,if not the most prestigious in the world, while he was at a sixteen Z markand his team advised and held good camps for the portfolio and go tomarket best practices and also brought in a network of cxos and executives inthe fortune. Five hundred global two housand and a few folks were listeningearlier in the podcast. You know that we interview Jamie Buss from Zendesk,who worked for mark for a good number of years. He's also held a seniorexecutive positions at Hewlett Packard. He was also in the leadership rolls atOpsware, which was chronicled and Ben Horrwitsh's book the hard thing abouthard things and he played football at southern Utah University, so do notmess with him. Welcome mark to the podcast bag. Sam For having me eredelighted to have you, so I just gave a a very introductory bio for you, butyou have a long and a heralded and forstigest career in Silicon Valle. Sowould be great from your perspective just to hear about your career,starting from you know, you graduated from southern Utah playing football.You know, walk us through the. However many years it was till you ended up atsignal. Ffxs wow, that's aw long time. Yeah I mean I get thisfrom the kids today that are coming out of college. You know just kind ofwalking them through Li cells versus other options. They have, you knowcoming right out of school. The reason I kind of picked it I loaded up, jumpedin a truck and drove to La right out of school and and a sance. You got in theoffice equipment business and you know the criteria for me. Is You know we'regoing to go a earn, a lot of money, be bein control, my own destiny and incomeand see you know were going. I go get great. Training with you know, can kindof start my career with you know under great coaches. You know I just kind ofhave it grown up in a family business...

...and having bent tours my old man and myuncle's in a large family. You know farm and ranch in Idaho and then goingthrough kind of an athletic background and high school and college just kindof understood. The importance of you know learning a system from the best,so ided work ended up working right out of school for a compay called HarrisThreem, which you know is also divisionly called leneer sellingcopiers brouht out of school is that down the street pold calling likephysical cold, calling, not the you, know, kind of Co, calling you do. Youknow, starting as an SDR. So that's how I got into it. I just kind of graduatedup into medical device and equipment cells for several years got on themangement path extremely quickly. I think I was only andividual COTRIBUTORfor a couple years in my career and led manage teams, ND, n thousand ninehundred and ninety eight, you know is: It happened to be up in Seattle. Doinga medical device and equipment start up and bcaus all this Internet stuff goingon around me and and there's a compy called PTC that had been stealing myguys for years and I finally took their call and a couple days later I was youknow, got hired Byi guy named John macman. I PTC, which is noing, is largeas software company or it was 't time and got back on that track again. Youknow just kind of progressing up en ed up running the Americas at PTC inBoston. You know, moved out to Boston and that's where band horrowits andMarkan Dreson found men, two thousandd early, two thousand and four recruitedme out to do to essentially build the field out for OPSWOR and took that fromup to hundred fifty million it sells and end up selling that HP software. Sothat's that's kind of the the short version, not too short, but but long.So you mentioned that you were an individual contributor for only acouple years and there's probably a couple different. There are many, butthere are a couple different phases of growth in somebody's career. There'sbeing an IC, then there's sort of your first management experience and thenthere's the management experience at the VP level, you're running, biggerand bigger teams, but sometimes that first jump from individual contributorto manager is the most daunting. How did you figure out that you wanted tobe a manager and what were some of the tools, the tips, the strategies thatyou use to be successful in those first managerial days? I would say the firstthings you know as an IC you want to do is just you know, be a pro. I say thisto my team all the time and you know be a pro, not o Shmo. I mean you're,particularly early in your career, you're, you're, a ball player. Ifyou're a great student or student government, you know coming out ofschool, I mean you spent a lot of time, practicing drilling and rehearsing. Youknow, I see a lot of the the younger crowd. You know they don't approach thejob as a you know is their profession, so I mean I just consume tons of bookson sales on business. I got stacks and stacks. You know even from some of thefirst ones, so I mean you really studying the game, be a student of thegame, picking up mentors as far as how I ended up down that path, it's justyou mastered the the jobs I've been in whether it's he customers, Iwas,calling on and the solution, understanding the value and then just astudent of the game from a process standpoint. You know how to add valueor customers and differn achate yourself. I think a lot of people don'treally understand that, and it's not just product that can set you a part ityou right. You are the big differentiator as an IC, and you haveliminability, even as an individual contributor to be in a leadershipposition, manage ind resources, getting the right resources in the rightcontent and the right things in front of a prospect or a customer to move thechains so mastering that first and then you got to enjoy you know helping otherpeople from a team. Stan Point You know teaching coaching I mean I always youknow. If I hadn't gone into to this path, that Ha probably ended up intocoaching. That was a big fork in the road. For me was you know, do I go intocoaches football or going down the cells path, and the thing I liked aboutthe cells path is ace where I could get...

...out every day and test myself and getout and compete and measure R up versus my competition to when you're thinkingabout building a team. What do you think the criteria is for you know youmentioned, there's a lot of discussion, that playing college athletics is areally powerful prerequisite to being successful both in life, butspecifically in sales. What do you think are the right criteria ifsomebody's out there trying to self ascess and figure out if they're goingto be good at sales? What are the criteria that makes a successfulsalesperson? I've got a pretty set Griteri and I love you know an Intblleathlete. I also it's not a requirement by all means, and not all athletes aresuited for this business, but a lot of junior marrit, dunor military officersar great high level. You know as far as stepping stones, you know people thatare extremely active in tough, the government and things those nature, butmy critera kind of falls in three buckets when I'm looking at anindividual dollar- and this goes way back. The first is you know you want tolook at their track record, I mean that's the leading indicators or youknow passt performance and that's probably the easier thing to vet outand selecting talent, but the other ones are, you know digging into you,know kind of intellectual horse power and et and things that nature, but Ireally go hard on the what I call the character bucket and the things I'mlooking for are really success. Themes in people's backgrounds and a lot ofthis starts before the resume. It's really in their upbringing. You knowhow how and why they are younow motivated by what they're motivated byyou know, what's heur golden spur and it's the first one's, probably howwhere they rank from a courage standpoint, do they have the courage toyou know kind of push through resistance to take a little bit of abeating from you know could be a prospect, a customer. It could berunning in someone's system and then do they. You know how competitive are theyare they competing? They really enjoy competition, getting up and beingmeasured every day and then things like focus and disippointed. They have thefocus, ind discipline to kind of really study and grill practice and get betteron a day today basis in the athletic type background, junior militaryofficer type background. You know H, that's already just there, it's justingrained in them and they thrived in those environments. So it's just a goodleading indicator. Other things like coach ability, you know, what's thework ethic, where did they get that work ethic I mean, I don't think youjust wake up some day when you're thirty, five or forty years old andhave a work ethic. I think that's just you know that starts. You know a lotearlier in life and the last was probably just you know: Do they haveempathy right? One of the big things on the cellar side that I look for is: Dothey have kind of the ability of putting themselves in byer shoes andunderstanding what's going on in their world individually and as a company,and can they unpack that and need to have the intellectual curiosity tofigure things out, so those are kind of the high levels for an IC, and you know,as you move up to chain from a leadership standpoint, you layer in youknow, do they do really enjoy, leading and managing people and helping coachthem and seeing them a succeed. That's kind of tha O K, ow, where things might start to break down and I seemight think they've got to go into management, but you really you know ifyou a lot of them, will pop up and go back down people rerewired differently.You know some people enjoy, you know helping customers and some people enjoyhelping raps healt customers. I that makes sense so yeah. That makes a lotof sense. So courage, how do you measure courage? Are there questionsthat you ask ar their specific experiences that are demonstrative ofthat I'm just I was struck by that use. The use of that word. You know, let'ssay you're, there's different types of courage. If you're SDR, you know, ifyou have the courage to get some heighten with an account right, do youhave a the courage to push through you? You know a lot of people on the. Thecall here would probably recognize the challenger sell. Do you have the it'sreally about pushing through resistance,...

...and sometimes you have to go above. Youknow around your resistance. You have to address directly, maybe an enemy, anaccount or you have to challenge a prospect or customer. If you trulybelieve- and if you done that, you'v Done your homework right, you're freenly competent with yourvalue proposition, I mean I've got this light. It talks a lot about you knowgetting compitent, you know, gives you confidence, which gives you the courageto do the right thing to push through the resistance. So digging into that,you know when people have been had setbacks, how do they get past it andthere's all sorts of dipid examples. Curried, like you know, jumping in ariver and saving someone, that's a different type of courage. I'm talkingabout business or Eq type courage and push it through resistance in the Ou K,ow from ha cellar stand. You mentioned, you know going all the way back tochildhood. Are there? Are there specific childhood experiences orbackgrounds even before you get to go to military school or get to play andSETUPLA athletics? Are Their specific childhood experiences that you think arare indicative, sometimes of potential all star performers? Yeah, I mean look.Everybody's got A. has a story, I love hearing people's story. I mean the kindof patented. Let's start it, you know school and do the chronological on yourresume. You know lo I'll. Do that and ill that's Howigo tes through you knowthe track record piece and understand. You know how they've ranked in their wtos and what kind of training they've goten you knowthey coming from a system.But if you kind of understand somebody's upbringing, you know, didthey you know? was there a death in the family? I grew up. I tell a lot ofpeople like I was raised by wolves. Mother was killing he car accident at avery early age, and you know I was kind of raised by my old man and, U Know afew grandmothers and a a D and my uncles. You know at a large family,farm and business, and you know you just you end up. You growing up a lotquicker. That's my story. I love hearing other people's stories. Youknow how they're wired, you know that typically happens. You know earlieryour in life, and you know it can happen later and people can can change,but it helps to to kind of you know if you do end up selecting that person,you kind of know what their golden spur is, what makes him tick and which couldbe very valuable, to manage and going forward and helping them and coachingthem, and you know the other big thing is you know I try to look for. You knowwhat are the strinkes, not the weaknesses and because a lot of timesthe weaknesses in somebody's background or extentions of their strengths andit's tough to go fix weaknesses and they hire to strength versus weaknessis another thing you know try to focus on that makes sense. So you know one ofthe things tha that we were chatting about off. Flyine is sort of thedifferent criteria for being an IC versus a manager you mentioned as amanager. You really need to want to help people. What do you think when youthink about the difference between sort of a tradit? You know frontline managerand a VP? What are the critical differences that separates, whether youwant to call it a cro or but a senior sales executive from a manager and sortof like all of the tears below yeah? So I get I've gotten this question a lot.You know at Andrewson horrorwoid, so I mean it essentially. One of the bigfuckers responsibilities I had was advising teos and technical founders onbuilding out there go to market and, as they you know, come in from a seed oran a and they're getting ready. Skale, and you know they have to go- do thatfirst cells higher and one of the the ways I walk them through it. As youreally had three choices early on in a startup anyway, it could be first RABOR.It could be that you know zero to ten. It's going to be different than youknow, ten to hundred type scale, the first line manager, you know firstthing ID got to have a great recruiting eye. They got to have mastered thevalue proposition, the market cells process, but they're, probably somebodythat's run in somebody else's playbook from a process stanpoint and they'regreat. At executing the difference...

...between kind of the first second linemanager and somebody that can go put the whole thing together that thatgreat cro is somebody that could come in and they really created from thebottoms up. A playbook in the process is a very detailed level and they knowthey've got the feel in the situational awareness to go. You know, figure out,win and where and how to go put things together. I mean a good example is if Ihave a product you know in the software game right and I need to go. Am I goingto go build a bottoms up motion. That's a lot! It's a lot of times is productspecific. You know like Jamie over at at Zendes. Zendesk was a kind of abottoms up to play and she had a she had a great ser inside cells background.She also had the scale ability to and has had experience managing outside,direct in territory dispersed sells fources in you know how you go put thattogether. Do I go top down I'm going to put the outside direct people in placefirst regionally and then back into the bottoms up play or I'm going to put allthree levels. You Know Major Count Organization, commercial cells and thenyou know small medium business with you know, SDRs from a high velocitystandpoint. That's that's! Probably the biggest difference is the playbook. Canthey run in one running in somebody elses system versus putting it togetherto completely different things? It's not that somebody else can't, but dothey ou know, do they have that ability of doing it or not yeah, and whenyou're thinking about and when you're advising some of these companies, Iguess where do you fall out on? Let's say they've got somebody that theythink maybe the person's been a vpcls once before or a highly effective earlyemploye at the company. How do you help the CEO or the founder balance, thetension some vcs are constantly wanting to put in you know their favorite cro.That's done the twenty to a hundred or whatever stage of growth that companiesin and then there are other CEOS that are willing to let senior executivesgrow into the roles that they're hired for one of them that comes to mind onthe marketing front is nickmate at gainsight, and he he had this GuyAnthony Kanata very early on and now hes c Mo, and they never sort ofsquapped him out for the more blue chips cmo. How do you think abouthelping founders evaluate when is the time for an outside hiher on top versusletting the person that's in the role evolve into into the role so that theycan sort of make a few mistakes but write their own playbook yeah, I mean Ilove seeing the the high potential grow into the role. The thing they bring tothe table is knowledge of the solution. The value proposition, the customers-and you know, advising this. The founder or the CO is one thing. A lotof it probably depends on them and what is their ability to? You knowessentially coach them up and help them brow and where do they hit a wall, andone of the things I say is look if you've got a really technical founder.That's just never scaled on the go to market side that get them out, you'regoing to probably have help from your board, but you know reach out and builda team of advisors. You know that are best in class from on cells andmarketing standpoint or whatever the role is, could becustomer success thatcan go help that executive grow and then help you kind of. As you know, asthe founder help you kind of assess you know, can they make the next level ornot soit's, just so situational and a lot of it depends on the you know: Thehighing authority. You know what wore skill set is y? U Now getting helps probably themost important thing get another set of eyes on it, and you know if they can'tmake the leak they can maybe move on to the next one. But I love seeing them.You know people grow in those roles. You know I got that pretend to do itseveral times and sometimes, though you got Ta, you got to go fast. You don'thave time to let thim grow so yeah. I love saying it too. selfserving livecourse, but so one of the questions I...

...have is there's all these differentframes of stage stages of growth. You know, there's some people say zero. Ten,some people say ten to thirty thenty O fifty. What do you think? Having donethis so many different times? What are the natural breakpoints if you'rethinking about it from an Arr perspective, where things really dochange in those those Arr milestones, do seem to be indicative of somethingshifting you know zero to ten is probably the toughest and where you'rereally trying to find that recipe to systematize. You know, I think, onceyou cracked it I mean the way I've always looked at is look. If I crack,if I can figure out the ten, I typically could see the path to ahundred from ten. A different people may look at it differently and I thinkthat's probaby where the breakdown is and then you know, Hav'tg been in allthe different phases from you know. Zero to you know managing a fewthousand people at complete scale. It's that helps dramatically because youknow what needs to come next and you've got that awareness of you know thebuilding blocks that need to be there. You know getting up to that hundred Imean I, you know, look if I, when I you know blown by the hundred piece, I'myou know I'm looking a billion right. You can kind of feel that way you do oryou don't, but you can start to at least understand what needs to comenext breaking it down into you know the smaller buckets. I thinks you knowtougher. One of the things I think that's missing with a lot of a Cros is,is you know dod? They is the finance piece. They don't spend enough time onthe opps in the finance and really building out the bottoms up type planand they end up. You know the CO and the board and the cfal kind of handthem the plan. I mean some of sometimes it's based on Hato, how much theyraised right, that's and then it might be a little aggressive and it's and I've seen a lotof trosbpcof cells get tipped over and whackd because they just took thebottoms down or t the top down plan that was handed to them and they didn'treally spend enough time and thought and they've gone into. You know fiscalyears. You know metal on metal on a plan or you know underneath the plan.They didn't understand what the repprotic you know, the time ofproductivity ramps wor they didn't get branular enough on. Look it's going totake me longer to ramp up an outside direct cell sporce, its Callin on the G.Two thousand that it is, you know an inside celler selling. You know itmight be nine to twelve months for a fully ramp outside direct cells course,but the inside sellers might ramp int. You know three months or four months,and you know so. Yo really got to pay attention and be student of the game.Have a great you know: Finance guys in your Zells Operations Group and or inthe early stages. You're doing it yourself. I mean you're into thespreadshat you're, really tweaking that productivity ramp and then that you'reputting the package together, one of the biggest impacts and there's anotherplace where people all down is thet kind of outsource. The you know,training an endablement and the processpiece and they're not you knowcustomizing that to the uniqueness of their business, because that's thebiggest impact, a hiring the right people be put in the right system inplace sells process, then training them up and shaving that cycle time tocompency mean unconscious. You know getting people unconsciously conpidentat what they're doing that gives him so much confidence. It gives im a ton ofcourage to push the resistance and you'll see your productivity rampquickly. That way, Thas one of the purposes of the boot camp is to givethe these technical founders. You know here's what it looks like it's scaleand all these different levels and here's the things you need to startputting a place and here's kind of the criteria you need to be looking for inyour executives as you layer in and build your companies. If everythingelse was equal to pay the equity opportunity. Is there a stage for youthat's more fun than the others? Do? Y? U Love it! At the you know, managingthree thousand people on the march to a billion or or you kind of like abuilder, a thesor tendto. The building. I like the first few months of you knowI go back to a year ago. Last summer I mean literally in the a on the whiteboard, with the founders really teasing...

...out the value putting the yeah. I come with a playbook right, butit's a customizable playbook, but the messyging tha how to do it at a verygrandyw level, brandnew level how to go step through a technical validationevent and cancurrently. You know build a business case. You know attacking alllevels of of an audience to you know, understanding what the buying criteriashould be or your customers. One of the things I think happens is you know alot of go to market exacts, particularly in the startup world. Theysay: Well, Here's how it's here's. What the buying criteria is, for you know mycustomers just simplified. I try to break it down into three bucketsexecutive level. bying criteria is completely different than if you godown to the bottom, like the users of your sevil right, that's more feature.Function based, decadives is more business. Since you know, strategy andinitiative level type criteria, though putting an rly type model in there toshow value. The other thing people understand is look the customer if it'snew right at like in our space there's this massy shift going on in themarketplace from an architecture spandpoint to cloud naty right. What'sthe buying criteria? What should it be? It's our job to help our customers getthere and providing that value by here's. What things you might want tolook at as you move forward and in your move to cloud native and here's how wecan help the last thing we bring up is here's how we can help you know from asolution standpoint so that I think that's super critical is reallycrafping the messegs and that's what I enjoy. The most is kind of figuring thething out and then systematizing. It then growing it high and the rightpeople, training and developing them and then seeing them have a big impactwith their customers. Tell us about signal effects. If they've got you aschief commercial officer, there's, obviously something super interestinggoing on. So tell us about that company a little bit it look. I got theopportunity at my time at Endrison. horrwits to you, know, work with andlook at and evaluate thousands of investment opportunities in work with aton of founders and teams that we invested in on the enterprise side, andso there's a geneology story here, a lot of the crew at signal effcts, thefounding team. There's two co founders, Philloo, ith and CARTHYC grows, or youknow they were actually a loud cloud and when loud cloud made the you knowthey had the near death experience and they respun the company out as Opsworusinterprice software company from a centuous service provider. You knowkind of vs before aws. They cart they get et up going and joining a a younglady called diae green. At this little company called tmwer on is about amillion cells and en artthey Gran product for her through the ipl Phil Lustayed at Opswere, where I work with him and through he's our tief architect,and he you know after we got acquired by HP software, he got recruited intothis little company. Pallato called the facebook and Evere a him, and a lot ofthe engineering team went over there and they sentiually built and rebuiltthe monoring solution for internally at facebook. For several years, twothousand and seven up to two thousand and thirteen when doctor was releasedand this whole containerized environment started to take off soCartha and fhill got together then, and Co ound of the company and DresonHorowits we invested in the a round. So I got a lot F, a long run with theseguys all the way back to Ecentra, two thousand and four. When I came out tothe valley and the exciting pieces, it's is a huge market. The move to thecloud and public cloud, public or private is really accelerating and whatthey build it. What we built here is a real time streaming analytics enginethat helps, customers get to these cloud native environments and eitherinfrastructure their application or Apis all in one view at lightning speed,which is you know in this fornines...

...economy, where things are going wherecompanies are having to come software companies, it's pretty exciting. Sothat's what brought me off the bench and is the size of market the chance tokind of paint. My own canvas I'm go to market standpoint and a what I wethinkis going to be a really baby important company. It's incrediblyexciting question for you about a sixteen Z in your time there, so yougot as a sales leader and a sales executive or revenue executive. Youknow you have one set of skills, but you've also had the opportunity to workwith besides Ben and mark you know, every other partner at injrason is oneof the smartest people in their fields. So what what are some of the lessonsbeyond sales and revenue that you learn from your time being around anddirectly working with so many of the brightest minds in investing whetherit's been hororits or Christicxson or anybody else? Probably the biggest thing is, you knowone of the probably core investment thesises Os. The firm was, you know,did the there's a founding team today, really you know they earn and you know,learn and earn a secret. I mean kind of a secret that no one else relly knew,and it wasn't always super obvious at first. In fact, the craziest ideas.Sometimes you know a lot of times turn out to be the bigger outcomes, from aninvestment standpoint, so being able to listen and really you know, dig in andtease out. It's like you know, Carthian and fill the founders of t of signal,EF facts. I mean that whole team, the engineering team they really learnedand earn a secret at Basebook, Bun they're. Just so deep. In it I meanit's a prose versus shmos type thing and, and my job Hu biggest part of myjob, is there is I, how do you go? You know operationalize that and go tomarket and then be a this briefing program that I built. You know we wouldsent you reach out to the g two thousand the senior executives acrossthe world event really and offer them access to curated innovation. You knowto these dartups that you know would normally would take them years. Youknow for these startups to to get to these type of executives to buld upenough cells, Ind Marketing Muscle I mean we essentially shorten that and orif, if from a customer standpoint, you know Cioogolbe twothousand or his orher team, what might take them years to kind of sort through what's coming next,you know they just weren't getting innovation. Like the old days. I meanpeople used to buy innovation from the HPS and the IBMs of the world. Today,things arejust happening so fast with cloud, an social amobile and all thetechnology shifts in the changing and business models. It's just I mean T. Ijust saw a lot in a short period of time, so yeah I worked with a lot ofsmart people, a lot of people we invested and got it, but reallyconnecting the two worlds: The Valley to the rest of the world. From abusiness standpoint there was, it was a lot of fun, but I missed the grannylary. I always missed the granularity of your getting in and every day youknow, Waking Up, and you know I love the spell an NA palm in the morninggoing out and ask from a competitive standpoint. That's the point like themost, so I like coaching and helping startups, but you know it always tooklonger right and there wasn't. You know I couldn't make thim do anything. So I was he most frustrating part, but itwas a lot. It did get a lot of satis. I mean it was a lot of satisfact. Youwork with some great companies. Guys, like you, know the team over an OCTA. Imean to put a lot of the th cells leadership. In there I mean they. Youknow what public a year year and a half to go, and you know five billion dollarfive billion dollar valuation. Now I mean companies like that or were fun towork with Github crew was, you know, was tough to work with they had thisculture problem right or I diewd as a problem. They didn't want to screw uptheir engineering culture ewas like yeah guys I mean you can have twocultures. I mean the most important culture. Is the culture of winningright and getting your solution out to the market, and you know, got to you know, get out and front ofthe custers you're Goin Na have to drop people into territories, and you knowput this hells guys in another floor yeah the engineers want to they want towin to right.

That is a debate I have had so manytimes and you and me aren't exactly the same page. I think a lot of founders.Don't they don't process that you can have more than one culture and that thekind of person that's going to be a really successful salesperson. Theymight need a bell to go off every time. O now, opportunities created our saleis closed and if that annoys the engineers then have them in twodifferent rooms. It's okay, yeah! Absolutely I remember when I joined itupwhere within the first week. You know there was a cube company right, so I'ma little. Some people might farquine this hard to believe, but I can be alittle loud and I had an engineer balk over. I was on the phone with prospectand actually had a a guy named Grant Wilson with me runs force management,great cells trading in a Navaland company. We work together at PTC and,as like you know, listen to you know want. I wanted him to kind of hear whatthe customeras saying and the enginer comes over and says: Hey. Can you holdit down we're trying to write some code in here and I cokd on t the mutebuttand. They said: Hey mother, blankety, blank blanker. If we don't get this deal, you're gonnahave a job I the free. You know it was a littleone couple actually he's at signal. Fx Right now. 'She still tells that story.So a few days later, board Mandade crany gets his own office. There was aconference room, but I was the first to have in office yeah we ended up. Youknow moving to a different floor, pretty quicky, so I get it. I understand few last questions. First of all, thankso much for taking the time o really appreciate it and it's just an honor toget to chat with you. One question I have is what's changed. You know you'vebeen doing this such a long time or I don't mean to say that, and maybe that's Souni like yeah you're,not that old, you're still young, your young, an heart, but but things havechanged in, particularly because, even though you were advising start upsed aSixteenz, I'm sure that you're in it right now and there's probably specifictactic, specific tools that are different than the last time. You knowyou were formally the head of sales or the head of revenue. So what stood outto you as some of like the biggest changes in the sales world from nowversus, maybe ten or fifteen years ago H, I think I mean a lots changed. Youknow the tools right e, the power of the user. You know the bottoms up typecell, I think in the growth marketing pieces change, the customers are justarmed with way more information prior to the reach out. You know so I thinkABM S is super important, attacking your target markets from a bottoms upstandpoint, as well as top nown kind of putting all three of the audiencestogether. You know the the cxo different criteria versus you know: BPSand selling laterally across he multiple function of the business andthen the bottoms of getting to the bottoms up the users because and thetech is just so much better right. So I mean in some tases it's changed. Thetooling is changed from a you know, a crm and marking automation standpoint.I love, I mean I looked at hundreds of solutions over there. I still you knowwe're constantly tweeking them here, the the access to customer information,but the biggest thing is just the power andknowledge that the that the buyerhas and then you know how do you help enable the celler? You know the? Howdoes a marking oratization enable Tho Sell Er? And you know the advantage Ihave here is a you know, running Celes Marketing in customer success is reallybeing able to take the iron out and just flatting everything see. I don'thave like three functions that are pointing fingures at each other. I justiron out wrap people outside the head and we, you know it's one system right,you know being a ble to view it. You know the customer journey is as one bigcustomer journey, so it's pretty exciting yeah. It sounds incrediblyexciting. I have a specific question for you. Just in the enterprise salesworld, do you guys do pocs at signal effects and there's a bit of a debateor at least seas debate my world about whether you should charge for the POCbefore moving to full production...

...environment? What's your point of vewthere whoo that I love that one want to give my you know, because thiskind of gets into my you know the hardcore Ip, but absolutely here I want.I have such a devastatingly powerful product and that's one of the mostexciting things and one of the reasons I joined is I really like the product,the impact I can have with with our customers. I want to do a PLC I want to.If I go in side by side, no one could be absolute. Devastatingly will kickanybody's ass if we can get the customer to put it in, and I want to doa big one and N. I will treat the POC like a production deployment like we're,deploying it so absolute charge. Do you charge for the PSC Thou wel? In somecases we will if we can o? Typically, what we'll do? Is We get executivealignment up front that you know if we go through it, we're going to treat itlike a production deployment, and you know we're going to when we get downthe path we're? Can you currently start working on commercials we're going toconcurrently as we're checking the boxes from a criteria standpoint orworking on a business case for the executives and we're going to put it inproduction for ot and you're not going to want to turn it off you're not goingto want to why? Why would t go waste time? Let's just go put in production,yes, bring in the competition absolutely side by side. We will kicktheir ASS, so I love it. I love it yeah. Myperspective is pretty similar to yours. It's I just what you know. Sometimesthere's going to be companies that are asking for a PSC and it's sort of likeyeah. We would love to see a pilot and see what happens and my mandate is well.There has to be a pastive production. We don't do pcs for their own sake. Wedo it in the context lot of it's just putting a barbel around it. We dounpaid plcs for this time frame and here's the check he box. If you want togo beyond that, then it's really there's a difence beween, a appeal C ina paid pilot right. If you want to go longer than that, and you want to dosoak tests and stuff like that that are beyond you know what we think you knowneeds to happen, then you know absolutely move it up to a paid pilot.So I think it's a situational. It depends on. Your tack depends on whereyou're at how hard it is to get deployed for customers. I it you know,I don't think one answer fits all the boxes. I think it really is situational.Yeah makes sense, there's a section at the end here where I basically justlike to pay it forward and figure out either people that have worked for you,that you think we should know about or books that you've read that you thinkwe should be reading, but who are as as they say in the commitments who, whoare your influences? Wow I was hired by you know. PTSA I do a coaching treesare super important. To me I mean the talent that came out of PTC the numbersof VPS the cells. All over the place are phenomenal. You know, there's a lot.More Boston has a lot of more Boston DNA, but there's a lot of them out here.You know johb mcman, you know, Ho's does a ton of advising and boards rightnow he hired me a PKC and then we ended up squaring off and went to battled. Hewas at playe logic when I was at opswere. That was the o know Super Funfor me, because you know he was good. I mean his whole team was good and wewent to war. That was probably the funnest I had as far I mean Jami Buss, who you've hadon the program. I thinks the phenomenal talent I don't know if I was reallyprepared for this one TATHAT's management. You know I if you're a croand and you need some help, putting a package together. I you know the forsemanagement they're out. If North Carolina they have a playbook, they canyou know it's called CP. You know the big one is the most popular ascommandef the message hardcore cells process. They forecastic process withbetic. You know they can put that in for you in a customize fashion. If youyou know, you don't have the time or the OPS and the cells ennablement trainchops, to do it and or people to do it. You can't wait. I you know I wouldfollow those guys, as blog John Caplin, and grant Wilson over there orphenomenal count some of my favorite people. You know the opposere. Is therea sales book that you think or books...

...that you either? You know likesomething? That's had a big impact on you of the last couple years likesomething like spinselling or something that you've read recently. That youthink has some interesting nuance yeah, I reed a lot of them. The problem iswith the readers. Now I can never remember the names of them, but ye lookSteve, Martin, the author, Steve Martin, heavy hitter selling, you know it's alittle more tech, an enterprise software focus, he's wrote two or threethat I really am a fan of. I don't know if they're still, you know, if he's areally a big best seller I'Tualy spend a lot more time on the marketing sidelately on the girth marketing side, but yeah I' go back all the way, the ZIG Ian go all the way back to Yo you dated me, but the zig, tigglers and h. Youknow that stacks of Te wips do yeah, you a be a pro. Not of Schmo is thebiggest I mean be a stude o. The game is what I suggest with everybody. Youknow consume this data study practice drill rehearse the the cells. You knowif you want to Youre espiring yourselves manager. You know, there's alot of management, great management books as well. So very good. Lastquestion: I'm assuming you guys are growing at signal effects. If folkswant to reach out to you or first of all, are you open to that and, secondof all, what's the best way to do it? Email market signal, effxcom. You knowtwitter basebook, linked in B, all the usual channels, and and areyou guys, building out and are you hiring? Oh absolutely yeah, we'rehiring all levels, all the all the sellar positions were hired for skrs,just phenomenal talent we're getting inside sellers at a commercial teams.You know ee, the hybrid guys! I Love! U Know the inside seller, you know, strsare coming in and they're getting in the field or they're getting to quotocarrying roles pretty quickly and we're starting to push them out to hybridsfairly quickly. We're also hiring a heavy hitter. You Know Ten fifteentwenty year, major account type REP tick, an lock the halls of the lobalfifty global fortune, five hundred type account. So absolutely o You back inNew York. We can't find enough back there rightnow, so yovery good, we're hiring in Europe as well as Asia, so market signal efftcom folks will reachout to you all right, Ike. Thank so much for joining. We really appreciateit's been it's been great. Talking to you have a good one, see Yim, but e everybody at Sam's corner. We just continue to get amazing guestshere on the saleshacker podcast and Mark Crannie is somebody that a lot ofpeople know his name and he's featured very prominently and the hard thingabout hard things, and now is chief commercial officer signal effx and he'sa guest on the sale, sacker podcast. So lucky us. That was awesome. Just aquick, interesting point that mark made that I really strongly agree with. I'vehad this debate so many times with my bosses. Typically, the CEO or thefounder about you know: There's a it's a product, Ivin company and there's agroup of engineers, and so they say, Ewe, don't want Ta, Bro Culture, a brow,meaning I guess like supermasculine sales team, that's sort of chestbumping or something like that, and so there's a lot of dismissiveness and alot of disparagement, sometimes around celebration particul in the Salesteam,and would I try to convey to people that I work with particularly CEOS? Isthese are different? Cultures and sales teams need to be motivated and peopleneed to celebrate. What we do is really really hard. We heare no most of thetime. I always say that if you hear no seven out of ten times, you're an allstar and if you hear no nine out of ten times your fire- and that is the lifeof a salesperson, and so when we do get that win when we do get that signedcontract, I think it's okay to celebrate. I think it's okay to usesomething like a level eleven or a ambition, dot, io or Hoopla, and youknow, have a sound, go off and have a celebration go off and have acelebratory gift, but it's okay to celebrate and high five and make somenoise, and if that means that there are...

...two different cultures, but all of themaligned around winning more broadly than that's important and that's okay,and if you're out there and your founder building an amazing productwith a great group of Engineers. That's awesome and we celebrate you, but justunderstand that it takes a village. It takes a lot of different types ofpeople to build a company and let's make sure that we empower thesalespeople on the team, whatever gender race, ethnicity, age, wherevertherefrom, whoever they are. Let's empower them to celebrate those winds,because what we do is really really difficult. So with that, I'm sure somefolks out there are not in ther their heads, an agreement, I'll leave youwith that. This has been San's corner I'll talk to you soon to check out theshow, notes, see upcoming guests and play more episodes from our incredibleline up of sales leaders, visit sales hackercom and had to he podcast cap.There you'll find the sales tacking codcast on itunes or Gogle play. If youenjoyed this episode, please short with your peers on Lindoln, twitter orelsewhere. If you want to get in touch with me, I think the best way is linkedin so that's lingtoncom, an Sam f Jacobs. Once again, a huge shout out toour sponsors Arical, which is your advance, call sending software completebusiness phone and context ar one hundred percent natively integratedinto any serm and outrage. A customer engagement platform that helpssufficiently and effectively engaged prospects to drive more pipeline andclose, more deals. I'll see you next time.

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