The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

22. The Secret to Becoming a Successful Account Executive w/ John Barrows

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Talking about his background, secrets to prospecting, and top tips to becoming a successful account executive is John Barrows on this week's episode!

One two one twe, three, O everybody: This is this sales hackerpodcast and I am your host Sam Jacobs, I'm the founder of the New York revenue,collective and I'm also, the chief Revina officer of an amazing companycalled Behavox, which is a people analytics behavioral operating system,can tell you more about that ind. The time is right, but for now we've got onour show today. John Barrows and everybody knows who John is John- isthe sales trainer that trained sales force, and I first came into contactwith him years ago at Axelle he delivered an amazing one day, trainingsession title filling the funnel and we've got him back on the show, and heis just his enthusiasm for the for the profession of sales. Is Infectious andhe'll tell you all about how to how to generate engagement, how to getmeetings, how to build pipeline and how to approach your day in the right way.So we're excited to have John Orn ut. First, we've got our sponsors. We'vegot air calle as our first sponsor. They are a phone system designed forthe modern sales team. If you're, not using your call at this point, Ihonestly don't know what's wrong with you, but to the extent that you need tohear more, they seemlessly integrete into your crm. They eliminated it andtreat for your reps and they provide you assuming you as a manager withgreater visibility. Int Your team's performancetrough advance repording.When it's time to scale you can add new lines and minutes, and you can use incall coaching to reduce ramtime for you new raps. So here's the website you goto ar call dat, IO, forwr, lash sales tacker, that is air called at Io forsales hacker to see why Ubert, Zon and Bradstret pipe drive and thousands ofothers trust sales tacker with their most critical sales conversations. Oursecond sponsor is outreached on Io teleading sales and pagement cotformoutreach triples the prodictivity of sales teams and empowers them to drivepredictable and measurable refenue growth by prioritizing the rightactivities and scaling customer engagements with intelligent automation.Outreach makes customer facing teams more effective and improves his abilityinto what really drives results up over to Outrik Sid. I LFO ash sales hackerto see how thousands of customers, including cloud Eric, lassdor, Pandoraand silo fe lion out rage to beliters highe revenue. Court per sales rap nowhold on one more second, because I want to thank a few people that have reachedout to me for listening to the podcast. Here they are Anthony, do Gra at themain computer services. James Rose, who reached out to me to talk about theLondon Ruben te collective mic, Dinnon at outboundify, Kevin and real hope. Isaid: Tour last name right, a Kevin at anx cloud and then j Williams fromargyle. Those are all listeners that have chimed in and said, hey. Weappreciate what you're doing and I want to say thank you and if you've gotfeedback or new guests that you want us to host or questions you want me to askplease let me know I love feedback. My wife gives it to me all the time. It'sjust wonderful, so I would out further do let's listen to John Barrows everybody and welcome to the saleshacker podcast. We've got a very special guest today. My guesst today isJohn Berrows, who most people that I know in the sales world in the startupcommunity, already know who he is I've known about him. For a couple of years,I've worked with John at most of the companies that I've worked for over thepast. We first met him at axell. He then came into live stream and did aconversation with us and did a training with us, and then he did a trainingwith us when I was at the Mewse, so I've known John for a long time he'sbeen one of the top sales trainers and sort of sales thought leaders in thestartup BICO system, and he is the founder and owner of j Berrosconsulting. He teaches both prospecting and I I'll always remember his fillingthe funnel session, but he also teaches a bunch of other strategies andmechanisms which I used to this day. One of them is the gift to get scorecard. So John is out there in the sales world. I think one of his favorite andfamous Montres, as he teaches sales borts, how o cell, which I think was athing that he walked around Drem for sanding up business cards and talkedabout a couple years ago and we're just super excited to have them on the show.So, John Thanks for joining thanks for havinging Soame, it's Hawesom toconnect with a year because we do have a history and also sales hacker ingeneral man. You know I've been following what Max has been doing eversince you got this thing started, so I love what you guys are doing in thecommunity, build here trying to elevate the profession. So hopefully we candrop some knowledge today that people can get some value out of. That is thegoal, and anybody that knows Max knows that he's one of the world's tophustlers, so we're excitie we're all eager and excited to be part of thesales hacker world. I know you pretty well and a lot of other people do aswell, but it would be useful, John to hear a little bit about your backgroundto frame your context and figure out. You know how did you get into salestraining? You know, as you talk about. You are one of the sales trainers,that's a true sales practitioner and you do sales every day when you'rebuilding Pipelin or going through your your selling motions. How did you getinto this line of work? Yeah? It's I mean it's not something. I've planned.I will say that it's kind of it's an evolution right I mean I got my degreein marketing because back twenty years ago there was absolutely no degrees insales. Now, thankfully, there's at...

...least a few out there and startedwithto Walt then Xerox, and that's really when I got my tru saleseducation. You know sselling copiers, it's brutal and I said Bo as littlecopiers o the government, so it was even worse and I mean I lo. I learned at least howto take rejection of nothing else, and then I started a company doingoutsourced it. Services, so I was like twenty five few of my buddies. We gottogether from high school and started an outsource it services company, andyou know I was twenty five, so I didn't know what I was doing so I took everytraining right, Sanler, millerheimand, Taz and all of it- and I came acrossthis compant o Calle Baut show, and it was the first training that reallyresonated with e mebecause. It was very tactical. It was not this huge theoryor you know, rol play Drimman. It was super tactical, and I love that becauseI'm a pretty keup it simple stupid guy right, so I used it ruth riveup sold itoff to staples and then was looking for a new role and basshow. The TrainingCompany offered me a position to be a trainer, and I was like know. I don't think so because, upuntil that point in my career, the only type of sales trainers a a come acrossOer, their failed sales professionals are professional, presenters and and ifYouve Heepo, if you know, if you ever taken a training, I mean, I think,other professions you can get away with going through the slide deck and reallyjust being a good presenter but sales you can snoff out a bullshit sales rap.You know trainer all day every day right, because I will tell you rightnow. It is way easier to tell people how to do this stuff than it is toactually do it and again, if you've ever been in a training where you cantell Ke, either t y they've never done it or they did it twenty years ago,right, yeah, that's the problem with this industry. Right now is that yougot all these super old school trainers still training. You know methodologiesthat were thirty years back. I wanted nothing to do with it, but they werelike. Don't worry, you have to use these techniques to sell, so you cantrain so you can get paid and since sales is more my passion than anythingelse, I was like. Okay, I like the whole practice which yoaupreach thingso I got on board with them and then two thousand and seven hit and theeconomy just got crushed and new CEO restructured, the company, to put itlightly, fired thirty on Te, thirty five of us one day and Wen all in onsoftware and left the training on the side of the road to Bie, and so I'vealways said, I'm not the smartest cat out there by any stretch, but I'mdefinitely an opportunist and I walked into his office. I was like hey thatkind of sucks. So just adt of curiosity, what a you! What are you going to dowith the training and he was like? I don't know what do you think I shoulddo with it? I'm like Shit? Can I have it yeah take it, so I mean little bitmore than that, but not much, and so I split off with started canse partnerswith one of the other senior trainers and then about five years ago, went offon my own, because I've always kind of had the bug in the itch to do my ownthing and I'm a total pain in the ass to deal with anyways. So you know, Ithink, the entrepreneurship R, but also more Solal, consultant approach to me Iwas a lot more appealing, and so now I get to go play around with a lot of theSASS companies, so sales forse YS is there they're still my biggest clientbut link Gane box drop box. OCTO APTIS Google, like I've, trained a lot ofthose companies and it's fun right. I love playing in the tech world becausethere's SAS specifically because SASS pushes the envelope from a texhstandpoint, but it also from a sale standpoint right if I'm traning salesforce on the same stuff, I was training them on two or three years ago. There'sno way there renewing my contract, and so it forces me and that's why I say:I'm not really a trainer, I'm a sales sales rat that happens to train, and soI sell every day, and I translate that into the training for the reps tohopfully have some real world examples that they can. You know, learn fromwell, you know I'll always remember the first time he came into axel andeverybody walked out of there thinking it was sort of the best day thatthey've ever had in a sales, training, environment and again part of it isbecause you gave so many actual useful practical examples. My question is: Howd you figure out this formula because you left your old shop and it feelslike it's not an overnight success. You work your ass off, but every year it'sbigger and bigger every year, there's more substance to the J barrel'splatform. was there a moment? was there a first client? was there a light bulbthat triggered it? When you went on o your own, that you knew you were goingto be successful or Youare is just so determined that no matter what you'regoing to make sure you won, I think it's more f. The latter manthere's nolight ball to your point. You know, there's no overnight successes, there'sno and usually the ones that I don't last you know it's funny. Everybody askyou, what's a secret to success and is say O my answer, that is working yourass off N, I'm not the smartest get out there. I went to a state school drigt,my way through four years of college butbut I'll lo work. Yet you know whatI mean like. I got no problem even to this day, I'm forty two years old, Iusually work sixteen seventeen hours a day. You know six seven days a week andI travel you know a hundred and fifty days a year type of thing. Now, with mydaughter, I got a seven year old daughter and I keep going back to myparents and asking him like hey. What did you do? You know like when I wasgrowing up. Did you do anything specific to instill a really strongwork ethic and they they don'treally, have any answers. I really wish theydid so I could. I could really translate that to my daughter, but forsome reason I've always been driven to...

...be successful right early on thatmanifestid in money. You know when I was a kid out. My Mom said I was alwaysvery money driven an sroas. I wanted to make money, so I could buy the thingsthat I wanted to buy. But, as I matured it's way more about success and successis a different definition for everyone. I'm a big goal setter. I'm somebodyWHO's focused on continuous improvement. You know I live my life by lot rule onepercent, which is you set the bar at a highbut artainable level, and thenevery you know once you reach that bar don't just throw up another mountain aclimb, but you to one percent better every single day and if you cangenuinely look at yourself at the end of that day and say I was better todaythan I was yesterday, then it's going to be hard not to be successful. That'sthe mentality! I will say in this, I I always. I probably have four R fivecalls a week for people who are thinking about getting into you knowtheir own business or being an entrepreneur, and I tell them I go thatfirst client is definitely the key early on is a challenge right, becauseyou're trying to find money from an you're trying to just pay the bill soyou'll do any work for anybody. But my recommendation: is you find that oneclient that has somewhat of a logo and really fits your ICP and you go all inon whatever you're trying and you try to give them and- and you know, don'tgive it away for free, but if you have to do, but you know discounter whatever,but get testimonial get a case study from them, because once you have thatlogo, everything else becomes a lot easier and you said it earlier. Youknow I train sales force out of cell when Basho split. I vividly remembersitting in the boardroom, with the other two trainers who we were going tostart Kense partners with and all the logos right, Basho had some insanelogos. It was Gardner forest or Semantech sales. For US SSAP I mean fora small little training company, the low Gos were bananas and US as trainers.We were splitting them up right because now we were taking over basically- andI remember the other two trainers thay were battling over all these othercompanies. I want to Sepnn and all I could stared out with sales force, andI because this was this was ten years ago right. Sales sports was the king ofthe landback. That I mean they still are, but this was when they were. Youknow this is lea right on the cost of yea right and I'm like, and I knew itand no matter how bad the economy was. I'm, like you know what that company'sa Rocketship, and I knew it, and so I pretended like I cared about the othercompanies and you know negotiated with the partners about well, you know andII'm like all right, fine, as long as I can have sales for uts and I got salesfor it and what I did was I just overserviced the shit out of them. Idid stuff for sales force. I would never do for anybody else. You know,for instance, you know I go to Singapore for a day. You know I leaveon Monday here from Boston and I land on Wednesday morning. I train onWednesday. I come home on Thursday. I feel like you still do that. I think Isaw you like walking through the Singapore airport on snapchat orsomething like that and guess guess who that's still for there. You go for Sinles fois right,because I knew that if I got them as my Markui client that everything elsewould be so much easier and that's what happened and that's why I live in thessast world, because all these little sace companies want to be like salesforce. So when you heard me, you know going around drining fo saying I trainsale force out of cell to that target audience. Are You shitting me? You knowthat's ot like excuse, I mean that's talk about attention. Rabvers right, Imean that's. What I'm looking for is I'm looking for somebody to say whattell me more about that and then it led to a really good conversation and kindof where I am today. So I think a lot of that hard work early on hasmanifested itself into the brand and how I'm building it and really onlytaking also only taking on customers that I know I can hit a home run withto your point of that. First, training that you and I did together- that's thewhat I want. I want reps to walk out of that training going holy ship. That wasthe best I mean, thankfully, in sales traing, the bars pretty low, but youknow I want them, because if you walk out going yeah- and you know itwas okay,this is way too small of a community here to have that not get around. You knowwhat I mean well and of course the opposite is also true. Is that onceyou've got something good going now your business explodes? So I want totalk about a couple themes. While we've got time together, one of them is theevolution of sales and marketing in general, particularly as it relates toall of these new technologies and how the trade of sales is evolving, withthe incorporation of artificial intelligence. Whic, I think, issomething that youve thought and talked a lot about. So you know what should webe thinking of as we move into two thousand and eighteen and two thousandand nineteen and we've got all these new tools, everybody's looking for thesilver bullet right, and it frustrates me because the skill of sales isgetting replaced by technology, and so people are focusing less and less onthe ability to ask questions and relate to people and they're, focusing more oftheir attention on whatever cool new tool and technology. I can use to sendan email, and so I think we need to get a little bit first of all back to thebasics, a little bit on sales, on what really sales is all about and a coupleof things as far as what I think we need to be focusing on. First of all,then I sold this from Gary Vaner Chuck...

Right. He talks that you know everybodysays content is king content is king. He says fine. If content is king thancontext, is God, and that to me is sales versus marketing or marketingversus sales? Right marketing is content. Sales is context if we, assales professionals, re not putting any context around our content, then we'reno different than marketing, and I have no idea why we're getting paid to dowhat we do right, blasting out, templ an emails with some of these tools likeoutreach or sales loft or yes, wer, towtoup or whatever it is like. Itreally drives me crazy that I can even tell when I'm on to sales loft, cadensversus and ot reach cadence these days for crying out loud. How can you dol?What's the difference? It's the verbats that they use in the templates, because,typically, what happens? Is these clients sign up for these tools andthey go to out reach our sales oft and say: Hey? Can I see, can we you knowbecause most companies suck at messaging or at least sales messaging,now the fine with marketing messaging, but sales messaging, theire, brutal atand so they'll go to sales, oft or Outrageans? I Hey. Can you see some ofyour temple its like how you guys do it and, of course you know customersuccess on sales. Oftan not reach like yeah sure here you go and all thecompanies do is they take those templates? They replace the names, theytweak up the value proposition, they send them out and they literally pressplay, and I don't understand what the difference between that and Marqettoellicopardot any one of those is. You know, theye'RS supposed to be solesefficiency tools, but sales ers are using themte sales automation tools andI really do think right now we're in a transition phase, where you know I'mgoing to talk generationally here like so I'm forty two right. We grew up inthe numbers game world of sales. It was full blown boiler, room, reco style,make hundred you know that type of stuff, and so, as we've now grown, ourgeneration is grown to be managers and executives and leaders. Look, it'sreally hard to coach on quality right, but what I can do is I can manage youtowards numbers right for me to coach you on the quality of your call andthose type of things that takes a lot of time and that's, unfortunately, whatmost managers don't spend anytime doing, but I can tell you to make fiftydollars a day and so we're in this weird world, where everybodyunderstands qualities. The answer right, like cowbas marketing, for example,right com. These marketing cracks me up because really what a Caligaesmarketing is is just an admission from marketing that we got to stop spanmingpeople like we ri. It's is more expensive marketing, th stis, like oops,we went a little overboard with this whole content. Marketing thing like wegot ta Ratch at that back a little bit, but but what's happening now is thatsales reps, if you think of where marketing was five six seven years ago,where they were really starting on uptick of the spam filter of the Pan,you know hose if you will now marketing's coming back to you know:Okay, let's let's wratch it! It back sales reps, are on the upward swing.Now now it's sals rus blasting out all these emails, and you can't tell thedifference between a marketing, email and a silsingmill anymore. So for you,if context is God to your point and we want to get salespeople to be better?Do you mean just more personalization? You know create your own templateinstead of the default template that you're going to get from one of thesetools that helps you. Do you know sales efficiency, or do you mean more thanthat? Do you mean incorporating different types of outrage? How can Irep listening to this e h their process tomorrow by embracing context? It's allabout Whith Yourself, right, SNV, midmark and enterprise, those type ofthings, I'm a big believer and look. I get it right if it was up to me. WEDANLhave a half an hour to do research ing to reaccount before we sent an emailMede, a phone call, that's just not reality because again, our generationis forcing, even though we understand quality we're still forcing quantityright. So what I really recommend is everybody tear out their accounts right?You got your tear ones to your tos and to your threes and really not just thebasic reasons. Right, Oh, you know they're in these industries and thesize. But what are the nuances there? You know what kind of technologies arethey using? What type of competitions in there? And this is wheretechnology's a big benefit, because there's a ton of tools out there, theycan give me really deep insights on what really is. This company looks likeright. I mean tos like siftory and Owler, and those type of things arefantastic tools, a givn, the insights on what's happening in these businesses,so really tearing out your accounts into the ter ones, which is the tihquality ones to your tos, which is the quantity approach into your threes,which are practice or try things out, and then they can segment out. That'stheir approach right, so the cheer ones. That's a tailor approach. I really dorecommend sitting down doing research coming up with five, not just doingresearch for one. You know sending one email but researching the account andfinding four five six different things to say about that account all at thesame time, so you can put together your story because it is no longer about theone email, the one voice milll these days. It's about the contaxt stratedy.It's about the story that we tell these people, and so you can and you can mapthat whole story out in a tailored way O, but only to your tope Tere, like I'mnot going to do that for every single account. It's just not realistic, butwith your tear tos, that's where we can be a little bit more targeted, so sometailord at the tier one level targeted at the tier two level and when I saytargeted, let's find some type of...

...commonality that a group of people havein your database. So, for instance, you know we could do persona base stuffwhere you know vpiece of sales in the asass industry, because just on thatalone, right BBSE, he sales in t assass industry. What I'm going to do is I'mgoing to go. Do some research open up Google and say what are the Prioritiesv piece of sale, assass, industry, two thousand and eighteen, and do somehomework to figure out what these people care about? What are thechallenges today that these people face and usually you'll read a blog postabout? You know some common themes on what Aur challenges and then you cancraft a message and carb up your value, proposition to speak the language ofthat person right because, because my value to a vpsls, an assass industrythat uses sales force is slightly different than my value is to a vpslsin the manufacturing industry that uses Microsoft Dynamics and if I know that Ican craft my messaging around that and then send out fifty emails at a time tothat specific persona. So that's how we can get volume up there, but that'allows me to put context around it, because it's a persoona. Therefore Ican share relevant information to that person or to that persona. I can, youknow, ask questions that are relevant to that persona. So I think there'ssome ways that we can. I don't want to say personalization at scale, because Ipersonally think that's an opxi moron. You can't truly personalize at scale.You can target it scale. You can create efficiencies that allow you to dopersonalization more efficiently, but at scale as far as like blasting out.That's just not the case, because there's some it' say well more likeright now, going back to artificial intelligence, you know: There's sometools out there that are doing quote unquote: personalization skill using AI,but it's like Sirconnineteen, it's like linked in Tceri, one thousand, ninehundred and ninety nine, because what they're doing is there's no contextright, because they're actually using the email that I train, which is the yOuian, know Emai El and the whole concept of the. Why Way and ot was hey,was not rom research any website. I noticed this happened right, that's thehey trainer and then the reason that promped me to be couduse because manyof our clients levees our solution. This way, that's that's your connectionright that and what they're doing is they're coming up with that value,proposition: Hey here's! What we do and they're using artificial intelligenceto do that first line of personalization fom that first line ofpercilization I'm getting some of thes. Just like Hey John, I see you're inBoston seafood recently like the Red Sok andit's like. Are you shit me and then and then it goes like a hard cut to theirvalue proposition. So it's like, I see, you're in Boston. Are you a Red Sox Fan?Were the leading provider up bl, I'm like Oyeah one of the things you Ialways remember, and I'm gonna Throw you softball here,but you love following up touching bas. Checking in if I know anything aboutJohn Barrows agree, O disagree, yeah, no least favorite phrases an. I stillant, my pruisad ten years later. To get those phrases ot you know touching baseand checking out are the most meanless phrases in sales. You know you when, inyour cadences I've always I remember this, though you an my Ancran sayingthat your philosophy is don't reference affailed attempt, because to the pointof like crafting the story and one email doesn't cut it. How do you feelabout reps? That are I mean I get so many messages where it's I see that youhaven't responded. I see that you may not be interested. Like that's correct.I have not responded to you. I'm not interested, say something interesting.Exactly. No. I think theyre that somebody said that to me early in myChris and never reference, and the main point of that was when you make a cocall right, say never say: Hey have called you five times in the past.Right just want to reach out to again because look if I didn't care the firstfive times why the held? Would I care now you know and email it's kind of thesame thing and that's where the that's the problem with the cadence right now,because what it is is, it might be, might be one decent, email, upfront,okay, one decent email, that's somewhat relevant to my role or something likethat. But then it's hey. Did you get my first email bubbling this one up to thetop and then the inevitable breakup email, one, two or three stuck underRod, Bullshit Right? If you should, in my opinion, tell that story with adifferent reason every single time now you can connect the dots and that's.Why going and doing all your research at the same time and telling your storyall the same time is important, because then you can lay it out right. You cansay: okay, what's my first second third, fourth, and how am I going to tie thesetogether? Usually for me it's something to the effect of Hey on my first email:it's, it was doing some research. I noticed this happened alove to talk toyou next one is, as I learne more about your business. I actually noticed this,which is why I think you know I wanted to talke about that as I die deeperinto your organization. I know that S, so I'm focusing on the future and moving forward as opposed to thepast, but yeah. I really do strongly believe that you should have adifferent reason each time now, if you have a kickass like if you did someresearch and you found something that was like Holy Shit like our solution,just is a homerun on that one and you really craft a well written email. Idon't have a problem with at least repeating that once especially ifyou're using a tool like you know some of the email tracking tools that tellyou whether they opened it or not, lieifs they didn't open. I feel free touse that again and an Seei'm back me up.

I'm going to FLICP This onr O neew fora second, your svpsls right and marketing. Pro Chief Revenue Officerbehave box that work. John, that's right! Sorry, SOTS! Okay! I move around a lot. You know I turnover at the executive level, but but you're a CRO right San. When was thelast time you got a thoughtful multitouch contact strategythat wasn't hate to get my first email but literally told a story that wasmore than one or two. That was five. Six seven touches. One was the lasttime anybody reached out to you with a thoughtful multitouch contact strategy,th t that told a story. The answer is, it's very rare and I try to be a niceguy, a positive person because we're all reaching up to people that we don'tknow. So I try not to be an asshole but curepoint all I get that that's thereason I asked you, because all I get is you haven't responded seems like notM, might not be a good time before I go. I want to make sure it's like if theyhad just thought, because by the way I buy things right like it's, not thatI'm not a good ICP like I buyshit all the fucking time, but think about whatI want to buy, and I, and also by the way like with a Cro, is super easy,because what do I want I want leads. I want pipe plan and I want closedbusiness and if you can relate your product thoughtfully to what we do atBehavox, which is machine, learning and big data back to helping me drivepipeline and you can think about the customers we sell to which are biginvestment banks. I will probably be interested in a phone call, yeah andat's. My point right like it happens, so rare and look at I mean, and it'snot like you're hiding right, I mean that's the opposite. Exactly you're outthere you're doing a podcast for sales hacker, I'm sure there's plenty ofpeople out there right now that are listening to this. That would love todo business with behaviorics D and You. But yet you don't get thoughtfuloutreach to you know and and by the way I ventyou the last person that did it.You remember right and it's almost like, especially for Exactlie CGOS and BBS Osales. I tell Solsordo, you want to be the sales rep that that svp orvp wantsto hire. So I want to reach out to you in a thoughtful way and be memorablebecause after three, four five six touches to an executive with athoughtful approach, it's almost like they feel obligated to get back to thatperson one way or the other. You know what I mean whet it might be. When Iwas at the mews, this young man, we sold to HR people at the muws they sellto Hrpdo and he paceed in he worked for discover or wheas in SDR hasted in theorg chart of Disney all the way up to their chro, and he said I thought thismight be interesting for you, because I imagine you sell to big brands likeDisney, based on the fact that I saw that you sell to all these other brandsthat turned out to be like a ninetyhousand dollar four week, salecycle. So that's what I'm saying is to your point of context. Right I meantaking a step back and really thinking through e. What are these people careabout, and the difference between sales and messaging and marketing that here'sanother example of context content? That's easy! The webon are email t I'mgoing to give somebody VUN something very tactical to do. I recommendmarketing. I wrote a post a long time ago. Let Marketing Market, let's sale,sell right, which means stop putting the sales rups name on the marketingemails. Everybody knows what a markin email looks like and everybody knowsit's not a salesrep, because if you get, if Sam you get ten emails from JohnBarrows and they're, obviously marketing emails right, but yet then Idecide to go on your website and do some homework, and I send that email toyou like, I'm, probably already you know, inthoughtful email, that's, Ithink, I'm probably already in the span filter marketing these to separate.Have those marketing mails come for DPS sales or whatever? But let's talk aboutthe Weabin ar one right: There's always that hey we got this webin art comingup. What I want to do is a sales drop is I want to be on the marketing list,so I know when that email goes out to my audience and then I want to have mytier one accounts, my top twenty five list and I'm going to take that emailabout the weomen ar and I'm going to forward it to you and say: Hey Sam, I'msure you probably just got this email, I'm not sure if you saw this emailefrom our marketing environment weere having this Weaban our coming up heresoon. The reason I thought you specifically would be interested in isis: Is this right, and so that's all you're doing is put a little bit ofcontext now, let's take it on the back end. So now say that whein our happensand you don't go to it right, so you might have signed up for it, but youdidn't actually attend well, I'm going Ta then take that and say hey samthanks. So much for sin ot the Weben ar I noticed you actually didn't get achance to attend it based on want to know about you, though, if you actuallystart listening to this Weban art around minute fifteen and go frorminute fifteen to thirty two like that's, where some really valuablestuff is that I think you and your team might be able to leverage here you golike if a saleser would ever do that to me. I would literally lose my shit. Iwould be like. Oh my God Yep, I don't know what you're selling. Let's talkright, you're, a busy man by I'm hearing allthese messaging Chimes Garn, you someone know it's all good before wemove off this topic, because there's a natural thought that I imagine aand abunch of sales people out there...

...thinking. One question I want to ask is-and I obviously I see it, I'm on your blog right now, it's as cold calling isnot dead. What's the role of the telephone in the modern sales world. Inyour opinion, it's a piece of the puzzle right. It's no longer wantanyone form of communication. It's all of it right, so it's email phone text.You know social, all that stuff, but phon people. You know it's funny. I getour generation it's. We grew up on the phonewe're decision makers. Right now,so guess what I like talking on the phone. I know the millennial generation,they didn't grow p the football they grew up with it, but they didn't growup with it as a phone and so there's it's not in their DNA to typically makephone calls and most people don't give them the tools and the skills to beeffected on the phone. So it ends up being this negative, like I don't wantto make pole calls and because I have this bad mentality and I haven't gottenany skills around it. I then try to make phone calls and I get my ass Kickeand it doesn't work. So it proves my point, but if you look at phone, as youknow, different people like communicating in different ways right,theres, there's a whole study on Nera linguistic programming around this. Ifanybody wants to REAC research, it there's a book called selling with anLP, the unfair advantage, and it's about the different types ofcommunicators and thee's visuals auditories and canasthetics rightvisuals like to see visual things Auditoris, like the hear things andkinisthetics like to touch and feel things right. And since you don't knowwhat type of communicator you're dealing with you got to mix it up,because if you ftsend five emails to an auditory, your chances of themresponding drop. If you make five phone calls to a Chinasthetic, your chancesof them responding drop. So that's why you have to mix it up and for me Idon't get call backs okay like if I get a call back I' legit have a heartattack, but the reason I make phone calls is because every once in a whileI get through- and I think voice is something you need to practice and getreally good at, because it's where the futures going anyways with all theELECO skills and all that stuff. But also I leave voice mails, not because Iav tot callbacks, but because that when I leave voice mails tied with mycontact strategy, my email responses go up. I think that's such an importantpoint. I mean I can tell you that at the last few places I've worked notthis place. There's this idea. Why are we doing the call blets the telephonedoesn't work and it's like? No, that's not the point. It works in context withall of the other communication channels. There's not one thing that worksanymore. Exactly and that's why you know it's Al Given aget agains, sometactical stuff here for the for the R, like my favorite way of running acallblats, the problem is: is most people like when I walking oorganizations and they have like cablets days- I'm like, Oh God, likegross like I'm sorry, there's not enough redbal out there to get me hypedup. You can't do it all day. You do it for an hour an hour right so powerhouts,but the problem is I that most sales rips, what they'll do is they'll justget their list and they'll start calling- and I don't know about you,Sam. I am not good enough to call VPS sales in the assass industry, cro inthe manufacturing industry, a CEO in the health care industry and haverelevant good conversations with each of them with that. If I'm calling allover the place, I have to be generic with my approach. I have to have ageneric celerator pitch and I have to ask you norer questions unless you'resuper smart and you can be that dynamic, which I don't know too many people thatare. But if I call every co in the healthcare industry, I can come up witha message that specific to them, based on what I learn about them and do someresearch and I can come up with two or three questions that are relevant tothem. They make it sound like. I know what I'm talking about so instead ofsaying, Hey. Tell me about your priorities, getting the generic answerthat that deserves, I say: Hey Sam, you know what we're typically dealing withCros and the you know behavioral. You know AI industry and Thenna, and I waswondering typically they're telling us the top PRIATS Xyzo those Ar yoursright, even if that's not even if they are like the fact that I kind of showedyou. I know your world a little bit tells me, you know, opens up theconversation and then I might have a case study or a story to tell you basedon another client, that's similar to you with that. Now I hammer the phones,wo thousand, an thirty forty dials, and I can bang out twenty dollars in anhour and try that approach, and- and this is the big thing I reallyrecommend everybody think about which is. Somebody asked me John Now thatyou're forty two, if you coul, go back and tell your twenty two year old self,something what would it be number one answer that was ab split test right andsplit test everything you do so if you're going after Cros in thefinancial services industry come up with two different messages to Cros inthe financial services industry. Make Twenty phone calls with this approach,make twenty phone calls without Approachang see which one yields ahigher response rate right, and that way you can put it into a cadence. Youcan put it into a context strategy and all that other stuff and figure outwhat works and iterate and going back to that one percent getting one percentbetter every day, if I make fifty dolars in a day and don't get anymeetings, that's a terrible day, but if I make fifty dials and make twenty fivewith this approach and twenty five with that approach, and I still get nomeetings- that's actually not a bad day, because I just figured out twoapproaches that don't work now tomorrow, going to try a couple new ones andthat's how phone and our callblits...

...things is a great part of anoverarching contact strategy. So I last point I'll make on this. Is that's whyit bothers me with sales training companies out there who are like onlysocial right, social? You know, phones, dead, emails, TAT, shut up. It's notyou know it's your target audience and that's. The other thing is like no. No,your target audience. You know I don' round I'm a forty two year old man onSnapchat, like I don't know what I'm doing on Snapchat, but a huge part ofmy audience, twusanty two to twenty eight year old kids is on stapchat orinstagram stories at this point, so I have to be there because that's wherethey are so, I was going to correct you about snapjet in the movement tointagram stories, but you corrected yourself. So there you go yeah, Coch,specific voice, mail that you leave tell the audience what yeah it doesn'tstart and it's it's probably the hardest thing we train, which is. Itdoesn't start with that hey. This is John Berrilson Parebellis consultingrig, because ninety percent of the time, when somebody, if they listen to thevoice, now ninety percent of the time they're going to delee it right afterthat, because they their think they know if they know you, they think theyknow you and if they don't know you, they don't care. So what we start offwith is going back to the reason for my call right. So this is what replace estouching base and checking in where we say: Hey Sam, the reason for wme Calle.Today I was on your Website D. I noticed you're doing some really coolstuff in these areas, and I want to talk about how our clients areleveraging our solution to address those challenges that you just pit. Youtalked about right there. Could you call me back at six hundred and sevenfive to nine seven, two, seven one! Oh by the way, this is John Berros with Jber was consulting six hundred and seven five to nine seven, two, sevenone. So you start with the reason for my call and then u whatever that is,and then you back it up with your name Yis. What it does is, there's firt ofall, there's a pattern interrupt factor there right, because every single voicemail sounds exactly the same, and then you come in with hays sand. The reasonfor my calln what right so it's different! Second, is it literallyforces them to listen to the value proposition right like becauseeverybody wants to know who it is before they hang up that phone? So it'slike O, damn it. Who is this Oshit n'te know you guys did that and then thethird benefit is I you know I lways joke. If you screw up halfway through,you can hang up and they have no idea who you are. That's that's a new onethat I I very much appreciate yeah. So that's the fun part, but it's hard, butI'll tell you right now. It took me a couple callblitzes to get that onereally to be tight, but man once it happened, O my calls were you know,voicemils W Tweanta thirty seconds, I had more confidence on the phone. I was getting call backs every once ina while. So I really recommend that structure. Like pick your intro. What'syour reason? What's your call th action and then your contact information? Ithink that is that is awesome advice. As usual. We've gonly got a few moreminutes. So the last question I have on sort of like process stuff and then Imight ask you so you can be thinking about books that we should read orinfluences you know paying it forwar sort of sharing the love with otherpeople that you think are doing great work. You know in the broadly definesales pace book before I aske that you talk about Tor hundre three accounts,and you know the example you gave about the Webonr. I imagine meaning theexample of like watch this thing from fifteen to thirty two minutes, becausethat's for you, Miter, VPS sales or MSS vpsales or miss is some reps are outthere saying John. I don't have the time to do what you are asking me to do.So how do you think about structuring your day so that you can get all of thethings you want done done? You know. I always challenge that. I don't have hetime. I call bullshit on that all day long. I don't know every time like reps,so I mind you training S, I'm like okay, cool. You guys, you guys are too busyright. Sure, okay and I opene op my calendar and I'mlike okay. Do me a favorite tell me somebody in here whose calendar is moreRidicu and I'm not saying that to brag by any stretch, trust me I wish it was.I was less, but I travel three days a week and I have Mondays and Mondays andFridays to usually do what I do and the usually it's about fifteen meetingsevery day, every half hour and thei're back to back to back to back to back.But I still prospect every day right because and all it is, is figuring outa replacement. So, for instance, I used to get up in the morning and check myfantasy leagues and get all pissed off about that type of crap or whatever,and what I've done now is I've replaced that with my morning, routine ofchecking datafeeds on my top toyour accounts and writing two or threereally high quality emails every single day. So I can get that muscle, moveentright, a lot of it has to do with goalsitting and blocking and tacklingyou know. People are just super inefficient with their time becausethey make a phone call, they send an email, they go to the bathroom. Theyyou know warm with their coffee. They talk about the game, they send anotheremail, they reat a proposal. I mean that's a reason. Time manage it's aproblem. Let's put this Wbut, you tell me you'R good multitasker, I'm tellingyou you're very inefficient in what you do. Yeah multitasking has been debunked.Of course I mean there's a book called the myth of multitasking. It's totalbullshit and so, and also momentum means a lot in sales right. There'sother studies to talk about. If you have momentum doing something and youstop for any reason, I think it takes somewhere between eight and twelveminutes to get back to where you were when you reengage. So that's like thinkabout it right, making cold calls right. I make a CO call three. Four five sixcalls. I get a good conversation.

Somebody says: Send Me Information, Istop everything. I'm doing. I said this nice custom piece of information likeI've, never sent it before my life and then, when I hit sen, I kind of feellike I did something right, so I get up stretch out a little bit wor. You knowwarm up the coffee and I just killed my momentum. So here's another. You knownugget for everybody. When I sit when somebody says, Send Me Information whenI'm doing a collblit. My questions are what, when why? What information wouldyou like to see? When would you like to see it and why and I'll usually prefeceit hey? Is it okay? If I get it to you by the end of the day, sure, okay cooland then I keep making calls and I schedule an activityes- sendinformation at the end of the day, because that way I can keep my momentumright. So my biggest recommendation for everybody is firt of all get maniacalabout goalsetting, smart, specific, measurable, atainable. Realistic. CanTime Ly set goals every day everybody likes crossing stuff off a list rightso make yourself feel good right. So put some list down cross some thingsoff focus on the big stuff you got to get away early. I was just having thisconversation about this. You know getting th the boulders out of the wayI forget who the conversation was, but it's you know in a jar you put bigrocks and you say: Oh, is it full? Oh yeah, but then you put pebbles in youlike, okay as a full. Now and then you put sand in right and then it fills itall up. So the idea is to get your rocks a out of the way early right sothat you can feel accomplished and then tackle your pebbles and and your sandtowards the end and that's prioritization right, important, stuff,first, second, third and then block and tacker you day, I recommend everybodydo things in our chunks: doing hours, Witho this activity and hours withother activity, as example, to all your research for your accounts at the sametime, because you can get very efficient with your research right, Imake all your calls at the same time, San Nall, your emails, those type ofthings. So if you do things in our chunks and give yourself breaks inbetween and you set goals and prioritize them, you have a chance atit and you'll be way more efficient than just going throughout your day.Let's put this Bo, you don't have a plan going into your day. Good Luck!You know you might be successful, but you're going to walk home. This is abrutal profession in general sales and there are days where, if you haven'treally planned out your day and set some goals and stuff like that, thereare days weeks months that could go by where now all of a sudden you're justgoing to measure yourself on on you hitting your quota. That's a that's a brutal existenceright there. I like having little wins along the way to keep me motivated hereto make sure that I can stay sane yeah, absolutely last question on this stuff.What time do you wake up? Iwake up at six o'clock these days, I'm trying to get back into work andout but yeah six o'clock and I usually grab my iphone first and formos checkout, see if there's any crazy stuff and and then usually is these days exactlyyeah, just if there's Bam like major fires and then I do a you, push upsitups and go get my dunks coffee then comeback and do my routine of checking through my data feeds and then can Istart my meetings at around nine o'clock cool books. We should readpeople we should know about in our last few minutes together. This has been anamazing conversation, but if you wanted to point us in a few directions to sortof keep following the bread crumb trail, where shoall we go yeah I mean sothere's some there's some tools, but you know I just got this one: Scott MOCregor over at Standing Ou. You know that book, Scotman Greggors, probablyone of the he works, Ta, try something New Right. You put together a book ofit's called standing O, which is a bunch of super successful people. Theytalk about who, in their lives, deserves a standing out and I'm justbig into the the positivity right now and trying to spread some good will,because I just think there's so much negativity going on right now that weneed to prodactively thank people and appreciate where we are in a lot ofcases. So I'm a huge fan of that book. All revenue goes to charity on that oneas well, and then you know I mean obviously sales Hackr, I think Max, isdoing some fantastic stuff. I love what Gong and drift and those blogs aredoing, because there's some really cool insights there and they're reallytrying to change the game as well. You know Drift Armin over it. Drift isreally. I had him on my podcast a little while ago and they're trying tonot only up en marketing but they're, trying to opend sales to and Takein areally niqe anddifferent approach there. I love negotiation. Ninja. Have youheard of of this Guyand Aman, so negotiation, Ninja, hes gotpssed out me for not knowingelwe can google it its on so go, which is literally Google Negotiation Inji.It's one of my favorite podcast right now, because what he's doing you got toget him on for sales hacker because he comes from the proparamed side, so myGod, that is amazing, exactly right. So I, when he brought me on his podcast,I'm like all right, tyl, you an not ar going tototel right now know after weget hem on he podcast we're going to torture him Toda and, like I absolutelyhate you, I like Iotwe, got a blast right because he was elling us whatpropurement thinks about nd, how they negotiate- and you know it's kind oflike the magician show and showin the trick so he's one. I would totallyrecommend following because he's got some reall and you know the Gong wineis really cool because all of their stuff is based on data, so their blogis literally one of my favorites, because it's purely based on the data,not your gut, not your feelings and I...

...think we need to levrage Datea a lotmore these days. So those are he ones I would have pay attention to. Thatsounds good if we want to get in touch with you, if we want to hire j Barrosconsulting if you want us to engage with you in some way. What are yourpreferred mechanisms? Let's give you your last opportunity to sell ussomething eah. I appreciate it that you know if you go to the website.JBEROSCOM you'll find it all so like my gram, twitter and Snapshat is John M.As a Michael Barrows, all one word, and I answer questions on that all all day.Long for reps who have questions our facebook group is killing it. We got tomake it happen. facebook group, on our page, where you know ton of members whoare really really actively engaged and Morgan, and I are moderating that youknow and then always you can email me or hit me up on Linkedin, it's John atj Barelscom, and I really do also recommend following Morgan. So morethan Ingrim. I hired him about this point about nine months ago, ten monthsago and the kids killing it. He just went to India for the first time hispersonal brand. If anybody who is out there is twenty five years older inthat range and wants to see what a personal brand building does for acareer foll Morgan, because you know that kids on a rocket ship right nowand I'm happy to have hem on my team, so those are all ways that you can getsome pretty on. My website has so much free content. We put most of it outthere for free, so you can go check that out too awesome John is greattalking. You is always, and I'm sure I will be working together soon. Sothanks for time we catch an up SAM appreciate, Aon. I folks is Sam's Corner. Thank you forlistening. Another great conversation this time with our good friend JohnBarrows, one of the most well known sales trainers, sales thought leadersin the STARTUP PICO system, as he said, guys that teaches sales force how tosell. There are always good tips and tactics within the course of a givenJohn Barro's training session, and he referenced a few of them on on ourpodcast. So let me go through a couple things. I think it's important toremember: one of them is just make sure you're corporating the phone, thepurpose of the telephone isn't necessarily to isolate that one channeland say the phone works or doesn't work. It works in context with all of yourother communication channels. So we've got to think multimedia when we'redoing a cadence when we're doing outreach to folks- and it has toinclude email, it has to include voicemail it hastome food phone callwithout leaving a message at assin food, a linked in message, but also lookingat their linkedin profile. As one of the touch points so use the telephone.It works in conjunction with everything else. I think, Derek Grant. In anearlier podcast said, the sales loft has done some research and they'veidentified that it's the voicemale first plus o follow a email that getsthe highest responsorate. So that's one thing to keep in mind and then, whenyou're leaving the voice mail, don't just say your name, hi, it's Sam Jacobsfrom behavox, say the reason for my call is Baffapba and have your name andthe phone number and your name is sandwiched between the phone numbertwice. So repeat the phone number twice, but the name in the company only anceand you started off with the reason for my call is so those are some strategiesand guess the final pieces just make sure that it's personalized block outyour day. There's no reason why you can't have a list, as John says, a tearwone accounts. You mentioned the number twenty five maybe make it five to tenevery single month that you can isolate, know everything there is to know aboutthose folks and make it your mission in life that you're going to get a meeting.Don't just drop everything into a cadence or an automated sequence, makesure that you're personalizing it and that you're doing thoughtful.Constructive outreach on that is what will get you a response. All you haveto do is use empathy to put yourself in the shoes of the buyer, and you willget a response you just have to think about it. So this has been Sam's cornerand thank you so much for listening I'll talk to you next time to check outthe show, notes, see upcoming guests and play more episodes from ourincredible line of of sales leaders BCAS IT SELLS ACROCOM and head to thepodcast Tab. You'll find the podcast on itunes or Google play. I find this partstrange to read because you're listening to the podcast, so you knowwhere the podcast is, but anyway that's wher you'll find us itunes. Google playspotify any other place that podcasts appear. If you enjoyed this episode,please share it with your peers. Doesn't have to be your pierce share itwith anybody. You don't care, we just want you to share it. Flease share itunlike den twitter or elsewhere. Imagine elsewhere is facebook orInstagram, but I think Linin is probably the best place and then, ifyou want to get in touch with me, I'l find me on twitter. I'm at SAM MFJacobs, wort Lincon at linoncom, L, INA, Sam f Jacobs. Once again, a huge shoutout to our sponsors. If you haven't visited our sponsors te the reason thatwe can bring all these guests on, they turn the lights on for the PODCAST andturn the ear buds on or airpots whatever you're. Listening to this onso here's Oure, two sponsors air call your advanced call center software,complete business, ponind contact center, one hundred percent nativelyintegraded into anyserum and outrage, a...

...customer engagement platform that helpsefficiently and effectively engage prospects to drive more pipeline andclothes. More deals. Thank you for listening. I will see you next time.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (347)