The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 4 years ago

22. The Secret to Becoming a Successful Account Executive w/ John Barrows

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Talking about his background, secrets to prospecting, and top tips to becoming a successful account executive is John Barrows on this week's episode!

One, two, one, three, everybody, this is the sales hacker podcast and I am your host, Sam Jacobs. I'm the founder of the New York revenue collective and I'm also the chief Revenue Officer of an amazing company called Behavox, which is a people analytics behavioral operating system. We can tell you more about that when the time is right, but for now we've got on our show today John Barrows, and everybody knows who John Is. John is the sales trainer that trains sales force and I first came into contact with him years ago at Axeo. He delivered an amazing one day training session titled Filling The funnel, and we've got him back on the show and he is just his enthusiasm for the for the profession of sales, is infectious and he'll tell you all about how to how to generate engagement, how to get meetings, how to build pipeline and how to approach your day in the right way. So we're excited to have John on, but first we've got our sponsors. We've got air call is our first sponsor. They are a phone system designed for the modern sales team. If you're not using air call at this point. I honestly don't know what's wrong with you, but to the extent that you need to hear more. They seamlessly integrated into your crm. They eliminated it and free for your reps, and they provide you, assuming you as a manager, with greater visibility into your team's performance through advanced reporting. When it's time to scale, you can add new lines and minutes and you can use incall coaching to reduce ramp time for your new Reps. so here's the website to go to. Air Call that IOE forward slash sales hacker. That is are all dot io forward slash sales hacker to see why Hubert done and Bradstreet pipe drive in thousands of others trust sales hacker with their most critical sales conversations. Our second sponsor is outreach. IO, but leading sales engagement platform. Outreach triples the productivity of sales teams and empowers them to drive predictable and measurable revenue growth by prioritizing the right activities and scaling customer engagements with intelligent automation. Outreach makes customer facing teams more effective and improves his ability into what really drives results up. Over to outreach. Io forward sales hacker to see how thousands of customers, including cloud, air, glass door, Pandora and Zilo, rely on outreach to deliver higher revenue for per sales rep now hold on one more second because I want to thank a few people that have reached out for me for listening to the podcast. Here they are anthony to graw at domain computer services, James Rose, who reached out to me to talk about the London revement collective, Mick Dinnon at outbound to FY, Kevin and real hope I said your last name Right, Kevin at annex cloud, and then Jay Williams from argyle. Those are all listeners that have chimed in and said Hey, we appreciate what you're doing and I want to say thank you. And if you've got feedback or new guests that you want us to host or questions you want me to ask, please let me know. I love feedback. My life gives it to me all the time. It's just wonderful. So, without further ado, let's listen to John Barrows. Hey, everybody and welcome to the sales hacker podcast. We've got a very special guest today. My I guess today is John Barrows, who most people that I know in the sales world in the startup community already know who he is. I've known about him for a couple of years. I've worked with John at most of the companies that I've worked for over the past we first met him at axial. He then came into live stream and did a conversation with us and did a training with us and then he did a training with us when I was at the news. So I've known John for a long time. He's been one of the top sales trainers and sort of sales thought leaders in the startup ecosystem and he is the founder and owner of Jay Barrows Consulting. He teaches both prospecting and I'll always remember his filling the funnel session, but he also teaches a bunch of other strategies and mechanisms which I used to this day. One of them is the gift to get score card. So John is out there in the sales world. I think one of his favorite and famous mantras is he teaches salesports how to sell, which I think was a thing that he walked around dream force, handing out business cards and talked about a couple of years ago and we're just super excited to have him on the show. So, John, thanks for joining. Thanks for having me. Sam. It's awesome to connector of the here because we do have a history and also sales accer in Generalman, you know I've been following what Max has been doing ever since he got this thing started. So I love what you guys are doing in the community built here, trying to elevate the profession. So hopefully we can drop some knowledge today the people can get some value out of that is the goal and anybody that knows Max knows that he's one of the world's top hustlers. So we're excited. We're all eager and excited to be part of the sales hacker world. I know you pretty well and a lot of other people do as well, but it would be useful, John, to hear a little bit about your background, to frame your context and figure out how did you get into sales training? You know, as you talk about, you are one of the sales trainers that's a true sales practitioner and you do sales every day when you're building pipeline or going through your your selling motions. How did you get into this line of work? Yeah, it's I mean it's not something I planned. I will say that it's kind of it's an evolution, right. I mean I got my degree in marketing because back twenty years ago there was absolutely no degrees in sales. Now, thankfully, there's at least a few out there. And started with the wall,...

...then Xerox, and that's really what I got my true sales education. You know, selling copiers brutal and I, by the way, I settle copiers to the government, so it was even worse. And I mean I love I learned at least how to take rejection, if nothing else. And then I started a company doing outsourced it services. So I was like twenty five. A few of my buddies we got together from high school and started an outsourced it services company and, you know, I was twenty five, so I didn't know what I was doing. So I took every training, right sailer Miller, him and Taz, been all of it, and I came across come this company called Bashow, and it was the first training that really resonated with the may be because it was very tactical. It was not this huge theory or, you know, role play driven. It was super tactical and I love that because I'm a pretty keep it simple stupid guy. Right. So I used it, grew drive up, sold it off to staples and then was looking for a new role and Bashow, the training company, offered me a position to be a trainer and I was like no, I don't think so, because up until that point in my career, the only type of sales trainers I had come across or their failed sales professionals or professional presenters. And they and if you've ever felt, if you know, if you ever taken a training, I mean I think other professions you can get away with going through the slide deck and really just being a good presenter, but sales you can sniff out a bullshit sales rep, you know, trainer all day, every day, right, because I will tell you right now it is way easier to tell people how to do this stuff than it is to actually do it. And again, if you've ever been in a training where you can tell either they they've never done it or they did it twenty years ago, right, yeah, that's the problem with this industry right now is that you got all these super old school trainers still training, you know, methodologies that were thirty years back. I wanted nothing to do with it, but they were like, don't worry, you have to use these techniques to sell, so you can train, so you can get paid. And since sales is more my passion than anything else, I was like, okay, I like the whole practice which your preach thing. So I got on board with them. And then two thousand and seven hit and the economy just got crushed and new CEO restructured the company, to put it lightly, fired thirty of the thirty five of us one day and when all in on software and left the training on the side of the road of the die. And so I've always said I'm not the smartest cut out there by any stretch, but I'm definitely an opportunist. And I walked into his office I was like hey, that kind of sucks. So, just out of curiosity, what are you when you're going to do with the training? And he was like I don't know what you think I should do it? I'm like Shit, can I have it? Yeah, take it. So I mean a little bit more of that, but not much, and so I split off with started Kense a partners with one of the other senior trainers and then about five years ago, one off on my own, because I've always kind of had the bug and the itch to do my own thing and I'm a total pain in the ass to deal with anyways. So, you know, I think the entrepreneurship or but also more solo consultant approach to me is was a lot more appealing. And so now I get to go play around with a lot of the SASS company. So sales force, yes, is they're still my biggest client, but linkedin box, dropbox, OCTA APP to Google like. I've trained a lot of those companies and it's fun. Right. I love playing in the tech world because there's Sass, specifically because SASS pushes the envelope from a tech standpoint, but it also from a sales standpoint. All right, if I'm trained sales force on the same stuff I was trained them on two or three years ago, there's no way they are renewing my contract, and so it forces me. That's why I say I'm not really a trainer, I'm a sales sales rep that happens to train, and so I sell every day and I translate that into the training for the reps so hopefully have some real world examples that they can, you know, learn from. Well, you know, I'll always remember the first time you came into axeal and everybody walked out of their thinking it was sort of the best day that they've ever had in a sales training environment. And again, part of it is because you gave so many actual, useful, practical examples. My question is, how'd you figure out this formula, because you left your old shop and it feels like it's not an overnight success. You work your ass off, but every year it's bigger and bigger. Every year there's more substance to the Jay Barrows Platform. was there a moment? was there a first client? was there a light bulb that triggered it when you went on in your own that you knew you were going to be successful? Or yours just so determined that, no matter what, you were going to make sure you you want? I think it's more of the ladder man. There's no light bulb to your point. You know, there's no overnight success. Is there's no and and usually the ones that I don't last, you know, I it's funny everybody ask you what's a secret to success and outside you know my answer. That is working your ass off. Now, I'm not the smartest kid out there. I went to a state school, drag my way through four years of college, but but I'll work you you know what I mean, like I got no problem. Even to this day. I'm forty two years old. I usually work sixteen, seventeen hours a day, you know, six, seven days a week, and I travel a hundred and fifty days a year, type of thing. Now with my daughter. I got a seven year old daughter and I keep going back to my parents and asking him like Hey, what did you do, you know, like when I was growing up? Did you do anything specific to instill a really strong work ethic? And they you, they don't really have any answers. I really wish they did so I could, I could really translate that to my daughter. But for some reason I've always been driven to be successful. Right early on,...

...that manifested in money. You know, when I was a kid out my mom said I was always very money driven and soar as I wanted to make money so I could buy the things that I wanted to buy. But as I've matured it's way more about success and success is a different definition for everyone. I'm a big goal setter. I'm somebody WHO's focused on Contin and use improvement. You know, I live my life by the rule of one percent, which is you set the bar too high but attainable level, and then every you know, once you reach that Bar, Don't just throw up another mountain of climb, but you just do one percent better every single day and if you can genuinely look at yourself at the end of that day and say I was better today than I was yesterday, then it's going to be hard not to be successful. That's the mentality I will say, and this I always probably have four or five calls a week for people who are thinking about getting into, you know, their own business or being an entrepreneur, and I tell them I go that first client is definitely the key. Early on. Is a challenge, right, because you're trying to find money from any you'll try to just pay the bills, so you'll do any work for anybody. But my recommendation is you find that one client that has somewhat of a logo and really fits your ICP and you go all in on whatever you're trying and you try to give them and you know, don't give it away for free, but if you have to, you do. But, you know, discount or whatever, but get testimonial, get a case study from them, because once you have that logo, everything else becomes a lot easier. And you said it earlier. You know, I train sales force out of cell when Basho Split, I vividly remember sitting in the board room with the other two trainers who we were going to start Kens a partners with, and all the logos, right, Bashaw had some insane logos. It was Gardner forest or CEMANTEC, sales force, sap. I mean for a small little training company, the logos were bananas and us as trainers, we were splitting them up right, because now we were taken over, basically, and I remember the other tree trainers. They were battling over all these other companies. I want to see a pin and and all I kept staring at with sales force and I because this is this was ten years ago, right. Sales Force was the king of the land back that. I mean they still are, but this was when they were you know, this is when they are right on the cost of us, right, and I'm like, and I knew it and no matter how bad the economy was, I'm like, you know what, that company's a rocket ship and I knew it. And so I pretended like I cared about the other companies and, you know, negotiated with the partners about well, you know. And if I'm like all right, fine, as long as I can have sales force, and I got sales for us. And what I did was I just over service the shit out of them. I did stuff for sales force I would never do for anybody else. You know, for instance, you know I go to Singapore for a day. You know, I leave on Monday here from Boston, I land on Wednesday morning, I train on Wednesday, I come home on Thursday. I feel like you still do that. I think I saw you like walking through the Singapore airport on snapchat or something like that. And yes, guess who that's still for. There you go through sales for us, right, because I knew that if I got them as my marquee client that everything else would be so much easier. And that's what happened. And that's why I live in the SASS world, because all these little SASS companies want to be like sales force. So when you heard me, you know, going around dream for saying I trained sales force out of cell to that target audience. Are you shouldn't me. You know, that's a like excute. I mean that's talked about attention grammers, right. I mean that's what I'm looking for, is I'm looking for somebody to say what, tell me more about that. And then it led to a really good conversation and kind of where I am today. So I think a lot of that hard work early on has manifested itself into the brand and how I'm building it and really only taking also only taking on customers that I know I can hit a home run with. To your point of that first training that you and I did together, that's the what I want. I want reps to walk out of that training going Holy Shit, that was the best. I mean, thankfully, and sales training, the bar is pretty low, but you know I want them because if you walk out going yeah, and you know it was okay, this is way too small of a community here to to have that not get around. You know I mean well. And of course the opposite is also true, is that once you've got something good going now, business explode. So I want to talk about a couple themes while we've got time together. One of them is the evolution of sales and marketing in general. Particular is it relates to all of these new technologies and how the trade of sales is evolving with the incorporation of artificial intelligence. Was, I think, is something that you've thought and talked a lot about. So you know, what should we be thinking of as we move into two thousand and eighteen and two thousand and nineteen and we've got all these new tools? Everybody's looking for the silver bullet right, and it frustrates me because the skill of sales is getting replaced by technology, and so people are focusing less and less on the ability to ask questions and relate to people and they're focusing more of their attention on whatever cool new tool and technology I can use to send an email. And so I think we need to get a little bit first of all, back to the basics a little bit on sales, on what really sales is all about. And couple of things as far as what I think we need to be focusing on. First of all, and I sold this from Gary...

Vander Chuck Right, he talks that you know everybody says content is king. Content is king. He says, fine, if content is king, than context is God. And that to me, is sales versus marketing or marketing versus sales. Right, marketing is content, sales is context. If we, as sales professionals are not putting any context around our content, then we're no different than marketing and I have no idea why we're getting paid to do what we do right, blasting out templaty emails with some of these tools like outreach or sales loft or, yes, we're tout out or whatever it is like. It really drives me crazy that I can even tell when I'm on a sales offt CADEN's versus and outreach Kadens these days, for crying out loud. How can you tell them? What's the difference? It's the verbiage that they use in the templates, because typically what happens is these clients sign up for these tools and they go to outreach or sales oft and say, Hey, can I see can we know? Because most companies suck at messaging, or early sales messaging. The fine with marketing messaging, but sales messaging their brutal atte and so they'll go to sales loft or outreaches. I Hey, can we see some of your templates, like how you guys do it? And of course you know customer success on sales oft and our reach, like yeah, sure, here you go. And all the companies do is they take those templates, they replace the names, they tweak up the value proposition, they send them out and they literally press play. And I don't understand what the difference between that and Marquetto Elco, part dot, any one of those is. You know, they're supposed to be sales efficiency tools, but sales arps are using them the sales automation tools. And I really do think right now we're in a transition phase where, you know I'm going to talk generationally here, like so, I'm forty two, right. We grew up in the numbers game world of sales. It was fullblown boiler room reco style, make hundred, you know that type of stuff. And so as we've now grown, our generation is grown to be managers and executives and leaders. Look, it's really hard to coach on quality right, but what I can do is I can manage you towards numbers right. For me to coach you on the quality of your call and those type of things. That takes a lot of time and that's, unfortunately, what most managers don't spend any time doing. But I can tell you to make fifty dollars a day. And so we're in this weird world where everybody understands qualities. The answer right, like a compass marketing, for example, right, a couple is marketing. Cracks me up because really, what a calibas marketing is is just an admission from marketing that we got to stop spam people. Like we know. It's like it's just more expensive marketing that this like oops, we went a little overboard with this whole content marketing thing, like we got to ratchet that back a little bit. But but what's happening now is that sales reps, if you think of where marketing was five, six, seven years ago, where they were really starting on uptick of the spam filter, of the spam, you know hose, if you will. Now Marketing is coming back to you know. Okay, let's let's wratch it it back. Sales Reps are on the upward swing. Now. Now it's sales reps blasting out all these email us and you can't tell the difference between a marketing email and our sales emil anymore. Those fear if context is God. To your point and we want to get sales people to be better, do you mean just more personalization, you know, create your own template instead of the default template that you're going to get from one of these tools that helps you? Do you know sales efficiency, or do you mean more than that? Do you mean incorporating different types of outrage? How can I rep listening to this their process tomorrow by embracing context. It's all, but which your self right s in the midmarket, enterprise, those type of things. I'm a big believer in look, I get it right. If it was up to me, we'd all have half an hour to do research on every account before we sent an email and me a phone call. That's just not reality because again, our generation is forcing even though we understand quality, we're still forcing quantity. Right. So what I really recommend is everybody tier out their accounts. Right. You got your tier ones, tier twos and tier threes, and really not just the basic reasons right. Oh, you know they're in these industries in the size, but what are the nuances there you know what kind of technologies are they using, whatever competitions in there, and this is where technology is a big benefit, because there's a ton of tools out there. They can give me really deep insights on what really is this company looks like. Right. I mean tools like siftery and owl or and those type of things are fantastic tools to get the insights on what's happening in these businesses. So really tearing out your accounts into the tier ones, which is the high quality ones, it's your two's, which is the quantity approach, and tier threes, which your practice or try things out and then they can segment out. That's their approach, right. So the tier ones, that's a tailored approach. I really do recommend sitting down doing research, coming up with five not just doing research for one, you know, sending one email, but researching the account and finding four, five, six different things to say about that account all the same time so you can put together your story, because it is no longer about the one email, the one voicemail. These days it's about the contact strategy. It's about the story that we tell these people, and so you can and you can map that whole story out in a tailored way to you, but only to your top tier. Like I'm not going to do that for every single account. It's just not realistic. But with your Tier Two's that's where we can be a little bit more targeted. So so, tailored at the tier one level, targetted at the tier two level. And when...

I say targeted, let's find some type of commonality that a group of people have in your database. So, for instance, you know, we could do persona base stuff where, you know, v piece of sales in the SASS industry, because just on that alone, right, v piece of sales and assass industry. What I'm going to do is I'm going to go do some research, open up Google and say what are the Priorities v piece of sales SASS industry two thousand and eighteen, and do some homework to figure out what these people care about, what are the challenges today that these people face? And usually you'll read a blog post about, you know, some common themes of what our challenges and then you can craft a message and carve up your value proposition to speak the language of that person. Right, because because my value to a VP of sales and assass industry that use the sales force is slightly different and my value is to a VP of sales in the manufacturing industry that uses Microsoft Dynamics and if I know that, I can craft my messaging around that and then send out fifty emails at a time to that specific persona. So that's how we can get volume up there. But that's allows me to put context around it, because it's a persona. Therefore I can share relevant information to that person over to that persona, I can, you know, ask questions that are relevant to that persona. So I think there's some ways that we can. I don't want to say personalization at scale, because I personally think that's an oxymoron. You can't truly personalize at scale. You can target at scale, you can create efficiencies that allow you to do personalization more efficiently, but at scale, as far as like blasting out, that's just not the case, because there's some say one more like right now. Going back to artificial intelligence, you know there's some tools out there that are doing quote unquote, personalization skill using AI, but it's like circain nineteen, it's like linked in circin one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine, because what they're doing is there's no context, right, because they're actually using the email that I train, which is the whyuy, you know email and the whole concept of the hyy. Now is hey, I was doing some research on your website. I noticed this happened. Right. That's the hey trigger. And then the reason that prompted me to reach out to you is because many of our clients leverage our solution this way. That's that's your connection right there. And what they're doing is they're coming up with that value proposition. Hey, here's what we do, and they're using artificial intelligence to do that. First Line of personalization. That first line of personalization I'm getting some of these is like hey, John, I see you're in Boston. See Food. Recently, people like the Red Sox, and it's like, are you shit me? And then and then it goes like a hard cut to their value proposition. So it's like, I see you're in Boston. Are you a Red Sox Fan? Where the leading provider? Lah? I'm like, okay, one of the things you I always remember, and I'm going to throw US offball here, but you love following up, touching, base checking in. If I know anything about John Barrows, agree or disagree? Yeah, no, least favorite phrases. I'm still on my crusade, ten years later, to get those phrases out, you know, touching basin, checking out of the most meaningless phrases and sales you when in your cadences. I've always I remember this, though. You am I anchor and saying that your philosophy is don't reference to failed attempt because to the point of like crafting the story and one email doesn't cut it. How do you feel about reps that are I mean, I get so many messages where it's I see that you haven't responded, I see that you may not be interested. Like. That's correct. I have not responded to you. I'm not interested. Say something interesting. Exactly. No. I think, though, that somebody said that's me early to my Chris and never reference, and the main point of that was when you make a cold call, right say. Never say hey, I've called you five times in the past. Right, just want to reach out to you again, because look, if I didn't care the first five times, why the hell would I care now? You know, an email. It's kind of the same thing, and that's where that that's the problem of the cadens, right now, because is what it is is it might be might be one decent email up front. Okay, when decent email that's somewhat relevant to my role or something like that, but then it's hey, did you get my first email? Bubble in this one up to the top, and then the inevitable break up. Email one, two or three, stuck under a rock. Bullshit. Right, you should, in my opinion, tell that story with a different reason every single time. Now you can connect the dots, and that's why going and doing all your research at the same time and telling your story all the same time as important, because then you can lay it out right. You can say, okay, what's my first, second, third, fourth, and how I am going to tie these together? Usually, for me it's something to the effect of Hey, on my first email, it's it was doing some research. I notice this happened. Love to talk to you. Next one is, as I learned more about Your Business, actually notice this, which is why I think you know I wanted to talk about that as I dive deeper into your organization. I know that's so I'm focusing on the future and and moving forward as opposed to the past. But yeah, I really do strongly believe that you should have a different reason each time. Now, if you have a kick ass like if you did some research and you found something that was like Holy Shit, like our solution, just as a home run on that one, and you really craft a well written email, I don't have a problem with at least repeating that once, especially if you're using a tool like, you know, some of the email tracking tools, that tells you whether they opened it or not, like if they didn't open it, feel free to use that again. And you can see I'm back me up. I'm going to flip...

...this over on you for a second. Your svp of sales right, and marking from the chief revenue officer behaves. That's okay, work, John. That's right. Sorry, so it's okay. I move around a lot. You know that I turn over at the executive level. But you're a CRO right. Say, when was the last time you got a thoughtful multi touch contact strategy? That wasn't here to get my first email, but literally told a story that was more than one or two, it was five, six, seven touches. When was the last time anybody reached out to you with a thoughtful multi touch contact strategy that told a story. The answer is it's very rare and I try to be a nice guy, a positive person, because we're all reaching out to people that we don't know. So I try not to be an asshole. But cure point. All I get that that's the reason I asked you, because all I get is you haven't responded. Seems like now might not be a good time. Before I go, I want to make sure it's like if they had just thought, because, by the way, I buy things right, like. It's not that I'm not a good ICP, like I buy shit all the fucking time, but you know, think about what I want to buy and I'll and also, by the way, like with a cro it's super easy, because what do I want? I want leads, I want pipeline and I want closed business. And if you can relate your product thoughtfully to what we do at behaviors, which is machine learning and big data, back to helping me drive pipeline, and you can think about the customers we sell to, which are big investment banks, I will probably be interested in a phone call. Yeah, and that's my point, right like it happens so rare and look at I mean, and it's not like you're hiding right. I mean that's the opposite exactly. You're out there, you're doing a podcast for sales hacker. I'm sure there's plenty of people out there right now that are listening to this that would love to do business with behaviors and and and you. But yet you don't get thoughtful outreach to you know, and and, by the way, I bet you the last person that did it you remember right. And it's almost like, especially for exactly CEOS and the views the sales I tell sales arps you want to be the sales rep that that svp or VP wants to hire. So I want to reach out to you in a thoughtful way and be memorable, because after three, four, five, six touches to an executive with a thoughtful approach, it's almost like they feel obligated to get back to that person one way or the other. You know what I mean? What it might be. When I was at the Muse this young man we sold to HR people at the news they sell to hr people and he pasted in, he worked for discover orcus an str pasted in the org chart of Disney all the way up to their HR row and he said I thought this might be interesting for you because I imagine you sell two big brands like Disney, based on the fact that I saw that you sell to all these other brands. That turned out to be like a ninety thousand dollar for week sales cycle. So that's what I'm saying. Is I to your point of context right. I mean taking a step back and really thinking through what are these people care about and the difference between sales and messaging and marketing. That here's another example of context content. That's easy. The webinar email. I'm going to give some to you. Something very tactical to do. I recommend marketing. I wrote a post a long time ago. Let Marketing Market, let's sales sell, right, which means stop putting the sales reps name on the marketing emails. Everybody knows what a marketing email looks like and everybody knows it's not a sales rep because if you get if Sam, you get ten emails from John Barrows and they're obviously marketing emails. Right. But yet then I decide to go on your website and do some homework and I send that email to you, like I'm probably already you know, in thoughtful email. That's I think I'm probably already in the spam filter. Marketing needs to separate. Have those marketing emails come for VP sales or whatever. But let's talk about a Webinar one, right. There's always that hey, we got this webin are coming up. What I want to do as a sales rep is I want to be on the marketing list so I know when that email goes out to my audience, and then I want to have my my tier one accounts by top twenty five list. And I'm going to take that email about the Webbin are and I'm going to forward it to you and say, hey, Sam, I'm sure you probably just got this email. If I'm not sure if you saw this email from our marketing firement, we're having this Webin are coming up here soon. The reason I thought you specifically would be interested in this is is this right? And so that's all you're doing is put a little bit of context. Now let's take it on the back end. So now say that Webinar happens and you don't go to it. Right, so you might have signed up for it but she didn't actually attend. Well, I'm gonna then take that and say hey, Sam, thanks so much for sign up the Webinar. I notice you actually didn't get a chance to attend it. Based on what I know about you, though, if you actually start listening to this webinar around minute fifteen and go from minute fifteen to thirty two, like that's where some really valuable stuff is, that I think you and your team might be able to leverage. Here you go, like maybe if a sales report to ever do that to me, I would literally lose my shit. I'd be like, Oh my God, Yep, I don't know what you're selling. Let's talk right. You're a busy man, by way. I'm hearing all these messaging chimes. God, yes, someone know it's how good. Before we move off this topic, because there's a natural thought that I imagine a bunch of sales people out there thinking. One question I...

...want to ask is, and I obviously I see it. I'm on your blog right now. It's just cold calling is not dead, right? What's the role of the telephone in the modern sales world? In your opinion, it's a piece of the puzzle, right. It's no longer want anyone form a communication. It's all of it, right. So it's email, phone, text, you know, social all that stuff, but phone people. You know, it's funny. I get our generation. It's we grew up with the phone. We're decision makers right now. So guess what? I like talking on the phone. I know the millennial generation, they didn't grow up the fall. They grew up with it, but they didn't grow up with it as a phone. And so there's there. It's not in their DNA to typically make phone calls and most people don't give them the tools and the skills to be effective on the phone. So it ends up being this negative like I don't want to make cold calls and because I have this bad mentality and I haven't gotten any skills around it, I then try to make phone calls and I get my ass kicked and it doesn't work. So it proves my point. But if you look at phone, as you know, different people like communicating in different ways. All right, there's there's a whole study on neur linguistic programming around this, if anybody wants to read research at there's a book called selling with an LP, the unfair advantage, and it's about the different types of communicators and there's visuals auditories and kinesthetics right. Visuals like to see visual things, auditories like to hear things and kinesthetics like to touch and feel things. Right. And since you don't know what type of communicator you're dealing with, you got to mix it up, because if you send five emails to an auditory, your chances of them are spawning drop. Make five phone calls to a kinesthetic, your chances of them are spawning drop. So that's why you have to mix it up. And for me, I don't get callbacks. Okay, like, if I get a call back, I legit have a heart attack. But the reason I make phone calls is because every once in a while to get through, and I think voice is something you need to practice and get really good at, because it's where the future is going anyways, with all the Alexa skills and all that stuff. But also I leave voice mails, not because I expect callbacks, but because that when I leave voice mails tied with my contact strategy, my email responses go up. I think that's such an important point. I mean, I can tell you that at the last few places I've worked, not this place, there's this idea, why are we doing a call blets, the telephone doesn't work and it's like no, that's not the point. It works in context with all of the other communication channels. There's not one thing that works anymore exactly, and that's why, you know, it's all given a get against some tactical stuff here for the for the like my favorite way of running a call blots. The problem is is most people, like when I walk into organizations and they have like call blets days, I'm like, Oh God, like Gross, like I'm sorry, there's not enough to bolt out there to get me hyped up. You can't do it all day. You do it for an hour, an hour right, so power hours. But the problem is at most sales reps what they'll do is they'll just get their list and they'll start calling. And I don't know about you, Sam, I am not good enough to call a VP of sales in the SASS industry, a crow in the manufacturing industry, a CEO and the healthcare industry and have relevant, good conversations with each of them. With that, if I'm calling all over the place, I have to be generic with my approach. I have to have a generic elevator pitch and I have to ask generic questions, unless you're super smart you can be that dynamic, which I don't know too many people at are. But if I call every crow in the healthcare industry, I can come up with a message that's specific to them based on what I learn about them and do some research and I can come up with two or three questions that are relevant to them that make it sound like I know what I'm talking about. So instead of saying hey, tell me about your priorities and getting the generic answer that that deserves, I say hey, Sam, you know what we're typically dealing with crows in the you know behavior, you know Ai Industry, and that I was wondering. Typically they're telling us that the tough pritors X, Y Z are those yours right, even if that's not, even if they aren't. Like the fact that I kind of showed you I know your world a little bit, tells me, you know, opens up the conversation and then I might have a case study or a story to tell you based on another client that's similar to you. With that, now I hammer the phones. Two Thousand and thirty forty dials and I can bang out twenty and an hour and try that approach and, and this is the big thing I really recommend everybody think about, which is somebody asked me, John, now that you're forty two, if you go back and tell your twenty two year old solf something, what would it be? Number one answer to that was AB split test. Right. In split test everything you do. So if you're going after CE ROWS in the financial services industry, come up with two different messages to see rows in the Financial Services Industry Make Twenty phone calls with this approach, me twenty phone calls without approach and see which one yields a higher response rate. Right. And that way you can put it into a cadence, you can put it into a contact strategy and all that other stuff and figure out what works and iterate and going back to that one percent, getting one percent better every day. If I make fifty dolls in a day and don't get any meetings, that's a terrible day. But if I make fifty dials and make twenty five with this approach and twenty five with that approach and I still get no meetings, that's actually not a bad day because I just figured out two approaches that don't work. Now tomorrow I'm going to try a couple new ones, and that's how phone and our call blitz at things is a great part of an overarching contact strategy.

So I last point I'll make on this is that's why I bothers me with sales training companies out there who are like only social, right, social. You know, phones, dead emails, that shut up. It's not you know, it's your target audience, and that's the other thing. Is like no know your target audience. You know, I don't Groun. I'm a forty two year old man on Snapchat, like, I don't know what I'm doing on Snapchat, but a huge part of my audience, twenty two to twenty eight year old kids, is on snapchat or instagram stories at this point. So I have to be there because that's where they are. So I was going to correct you about snapchat in the movement instagram stories, but you corrected yourself. So there you go. Yeah, kind of screwed them all. Specific voicemail that you leave tell the audience what. Yeah, it doesn't start and it's it's probably the hardest thing we train, which is it doesn't start with the hey, this is John Barrows from pere bars consulting right, because ninety percent of the time when somebody, if they listen to the voice mail, ninety percent of the time they're going to barlee it right after that because they they're think they know that. If they know you, they think they know you and if they don't know you, they don't care. So what we start off with it is going back to the reason for my call, right. So this is what replaces touching base and checking in, where we say hey, Sam, the reason for my call today. I was on your website. I notice you're doing some really cool stuff in these areas and I want to talk about how our clients are leveraging our solution to address those challenges that you just fait, you talked about right there. Could you call me back at six seven, five two nine seven, two seven one. Oh, by the way, this is John Barrows with Jay Barrows Consulting. Six one, seven, five, two nine seven, two seven one. So you start with the reason for my call and then you and whatever that is, and then you back it up with your name. Is what it does. Is there's first of all, there's a pattern interrupt factor there, right, because every single voice mail sounds exactly the same. And then you come in with hey, Sam, the reason for my call? What right? So it's different. Second is it literally forces them to listen to the value proposition right like, because everybody wants to know who it is before they hang out that phone. So it's like, I'm damn it, who is this? I should I know you guys did the and in the third benefit is it you know, and I was joking, if you screw up halfway through, you can hang up and they have no idea who you are. That's that's a new one that I very much appreciate. So that's the fun part. But it's hard. But I'll tell you right now. It took me a couple call blitz has to get that one really to be tight. But man, once it happens, who my calls were? You know, voicemails, twenty thirty seconds. I had more confidence on the phone. I was getting callbacks every once in a while. So I really recommend that structure. Like pick your intro, what your reason, what your call to action and then your contact information. I think that is that is awesome advice. As usual, we've only got a few more minutes. So the last question I have on sort of like process stuff and then I might ask you so you can be thinking about books that we should read or influences, you know, paying it forward, sort of sharing the love with other people that that you think are doing great work, you know, in the broadly defined sales space. But before I ask that, you talk about Tier One, two, three accounts, and you know the example you gave about the Webinar, I imagine meaning the example of, like, watch this thing from fifteen to thirty two minutes, because that's for you, Mr Vp of sales or MRS VP of sales, orms is. Some reps are out there saying, John, I don't have the time to do what you are asking me to do. So how do you think about structuring your day so that you can get all of the things you want done done? You know, I always challenge that. I don't have a time. I call bullshit on that all day long. I don't know every time, like Reps. so I'm You guys are too busy, right, sure, okay, and I open up my calendar and I'm like, okay, do me. I favorite tell me somebody and hear whose calendar is more ridiculous. I'm not saying that to brag by any stretch. Trust me, I wish it was. I was less, but I travel three days a week and I have Mondays and two Mondays and Fridays to usually do what I do, and usually it's about fifteen meetings every day, every half hour in their back to back to back to back to back. But I still prospect every day right because and all it is is figuring out a replacement. So, for instance, I used to get up in the morning and check my fantasy leaves and get all pissed off about that type of crap or whatever, and what I've done now is I've replaced that with my morning routine of checking data feeds on my top to your accounts and writing two or three really high quality emails every single day so I can get that muscle move in right. A lot of it has to do with goal setting and blocking and tackling. You know, people are just super inefficient with their time because they make a phone call, they send an email, they go to the bathroom, they you know, warm up their coffee, they talk about the game, they send another email, they read a proposal. I mean that's a reason time management's a problem. Let's put it this way. You tell me you're a good multitasker. I'm telling you you're very inefficient what you do. Yeah, multitasking has been debunked, of course. I mean there's a book called the myth of multitasking. It's total bullshit. And so and also, momentum means a lot in sales, right, there's other studies to talk about. If you have momentum doing something and you stop for any reason, I think it takes somewhere between eight and twelve minutes to get back to where you were when you re engage. So that's I think about it. Right, making cold calls, right, I make a cold call, three, four, five, six calls, I get a...

...good conversation. Somebody says semi information, I stop everything I'm doing. I said this nice custom piece of information, like I've never sent it before my life, and then when I hit send, I kind of feel like I did something right. So I get up, stretch out a little bit where, you know, warm up the coffee and I just killed my momentum. So here's another you know, nugget for everybody. When I sit them, when somebody says Sendi Information, when I'm doing a call blets. My questions are what, when, why? What information would you like to see? When would you like to see it and why? And I'll usually preface it. Hey, is it okay if I get it to you by the end of the day? Sure, okay, cool. And then I keep making calls and I schedule an activity to send information at the end of the day, because that way I can keep my momentum right. So my biggest recommendation for everybody is, first of all, get maniacal about goal setting. SMART, specific, measurable, attainable, realistic, can timely. Set goals every day. Everybody likes cross and stuff off a list, right, so make yourself feel good, right. So put some the list down, cross some things off, focus on the big stuff. You got to get away early. I was just having this conversation about this, you know, getting the boulders out of the way. I forget who the conversation was, but it's you know, in a jar you put big rocks and you say, Oh, is it full? Well, yeah, but then you put pebbles in, like okay, as a full now, and then you put sand in, right, and then it fills it all up. So the idea is to get your rocks out of the way early, right, so that you can feel accomplished, and then tackle your pebbles and and your sand towards the end, and that's prioritization right. Important stuff first, second, third, and then block and tackle your day. I recommend everybody do things in our chunks, doing hours without this activity and hours without active as example, to all your research for your accounts at the same time, because you can get very efficient with your research right. Make all your calls at the same time, so and all your emails, those type of things. So if you do things in our chunks and give yourself breaks in between and you set goals and prioritize them, you have a chance at it and you'll be way more efficient than just going throughout your day. Let's put it this way. You don't have a plan going into your day, good luck, you know, you might be successful, but you're going to walk home. This is a brutal profession in general, sales, and there are days where, if you haven't really planned out your day and set some goals and stuff like that, there are days, weeks, months that could go by. We're now all of a sudden, you're just going to measure yourself on on you hitting your quota. That's a that's a brutal existence right there. I like having a little wins along the way to keep me motivated here, to make sure that I can stay sane. Yeah, absolutely. Last question on this stuff. What time do wake up? Wake up at six o'clock. These days I'm trying to get back into working out, but yeah, six o'clock, and I usually grab my iphone first and foremo was check out, see if there's any crazy stuff and and then usually, as these days, exactly, you know just if there's been like major fires, and then I do if you push ups it ups and go get my dunks coffee, then come back and do my routine of checking through my data feeds and then kind of start my meetings. That around nine o'clock. Cool books we should read, people we should know about. In Our last few minutes together, this has been an amazing conversation, but if you want it to point a and a few directions, to sort of keep following the bread crumb trail, where should we go? Yeah, I mean so there's some there's some tools, but you know, I just got this one Scott McGregor over at standing oh. You know that book? Scott and Gregor's probably one of the works at. Try Something New Right. You put together a book of it's called Standing Oh, which is a bunch of super successful people that talk about who in their lives deserves a standing oh. And I'm just big into the the positivity right now and trying to spread some good will because I just think there's so much negativity going on right now that we need to proactively thank people and appreciate where we are in a lot of cases. So I'm a huge fan of that book. All revenue goes to charity on that one as well. And then, you know, I mean obviously sales hacker. I think Max is doing some fantastic stuff. I love what Gong and drift and those blogs are doing because there's some really cool insights there and they're really trying to change the game as well. You know drift arm and over a drift is is real. I had him on my podcast a little while ago, and they're trying to not only upend marketing but they're trying to upend sales to and taking a really unique and different approach there. I Love Negotiation Ninja. If you heard of this guy, Oh man, so negotiation Ninja. He's got to get passed on me for not knowing. Well, we can google it. It's all guys, so go, which is literally Google Negotiation Ninja. It's one of my favorite podcasts right now because what he's doing. You got to get them on for sales haccer, because he comes from the procurement side. So, my God, that is amazing, exactly right. So I when he brought me on his podcast, I'm like, all right, Kyle, you and I go in toe to tell right now. You know, after we get him on the PODCAST, we're going to torture him today and like, I absolutely hate you. We got a blast, right because he was telling us what procurement thinks about and how they negotiate, and you know, it's kind of like the magician showing showing the tricks. So he's one I would totally recommend following because he's got some real and you know, the Gong one is really cool because all of their stuff is based on data. So their blog is literally one of my favorites because it's purely based on the data, not your gut,...

...not your feelings, and I think we need to leverage date a lot more of these days. So those are the ones I would pay attention to. That sounds good. If we want to get in touch with you, if we want to hire j Barrows Consulting, if you want us to engage with you in some way, what are your preferred mechanisms? Let's give you your last opportunity to tell us something. I appreciate it that you know if you go to the website J Barrowscom, you'll find it all. So I get my gram, twitter and snapchat as John M as a Michael Barrows, all one word and I answer questions on that all all day long for reps who have questions. Our facebook group is killing it. We got to make it happen. facebook group on our page where you know a ton of members who are really, really actively engaged, and Morgan and I are moderating that, you know. And then always you can email me or hit me up on Linkedin. It's John at J Barrowscom and I really do also recommend following Morgan. So, Morgan Ingram. I hired him about this point, about nine months ago, ten months ago, and the kids killing it. He just went to India for the first time. His personal brand, if anybody is out there, I was twenty five years older in that range and wants to see what a personal brand building does for a career fall Morgan, because you know that kids on a rocket ship right now and I'm happy to have on my team. So those are always that you can get some for you on my website. has so much free content we put most of it out there for free, so you can go check that out too. Awesome. John, is great talking to you as always and I'm sure we'll be working together soon. So thanks for your time. Were catching up SAM. Appreciate Him. I folks, is Sam's corner. Thank you for listening. Another great conversation, this time with our good friend John Barrows, one of the most wellknown sales trainers, sales thought leaders in the start up ecosystem, as he said, the guy that teaches sales force how to sell. There are always good tips and tactics within the course of a given John Barrows training session and he referenced a few of them on on our podcast. So let me go through a couple things I think it's important to remember. One of them is just make sure you're incorporating the phone. The purpose of the telephone isn't necessarily to isolate that one channel and say the phone works or doesn't work. It works in context with all of your other communication channels. So we've got to think multimedia when we're doing a cadence, when we're doing outreach to folks, and a has to include email. It has to include voicemail, it has to include phone call without leaving a message. It has to include a linkedin message but also looking at their linkedin profile as one of the touch points. So use the telephone. It works in conjunction with everything else. I think Derek grant in an earlier podcast said the sales offt has done some research and they've identified that it's the voicemail first, plus a follow up email, that gets the highest response rate. So that's one thing to keep in mind. And then when you're leaving the voicemail, don't just say your name high it's Sam Jacobs from behaviors. Say The reason for my call is Bubba Baba and have your name and the phone number and your name is sandwiched between the phone number twice. So repeat the phone number twice but the name in the company only once. And you started off with the reason for my call. Is. So those are some strategies and I guess the final piece is just make sure that it's personalized. Block out your day. There's no reason why you can't have a list, as John says, of Tier One accounts. You mentioned the number twenty five. Maybe make it five to ten every single month that you can isolate, know everything there is to know about those folks and make it your mission in life that you're going to get a meeting. Don't just drop everything into a cadence or an automated sequence. Make sure that you're personalizing it and that you're doing thoughtful, constructive outreach, and that is what will get you a response. All you have to do is use empathy, to put yourself in the shoes of the buyer and you will get a response. You just have to think about it. So this has been Sam's corner and thank you so much for listening. I'll talk to you next time. To check out the show notes, see upcoming guests and play more episodes from our incredible lineup of sales leaders, visit sales hackercom and head to the PODCAST TAB. You'll find the podcast on itunes or Google play. I find this part strange to read. Because you're listening to the podcast, so you know where the podcast is. But anyway, that's where you'll find us. ITUNES, Google play, spotify, any other place the podcasts appear. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with your peers. Doesn't have to be your peers. Share it with anybody, you don't care. We just want you to share it. Please share it on linked in, twitter or elsewhere. Imagine elsewhere is facebook or Instagram, but I think linkedin is probably the best place. And then if you want to get in touch with me, find me on twitter. I'm at Sam F Jacobs. What at Linkedin? At linkedincom in, Slash Sam F Jacobs. Once again, a huge shout out to our sponsors. If you haven't visited our sponsors, the the reason that we can bring all these guests on. They turn the lights on for the PODCAST and turn the earbuds on, or are pods whatever you're listening to this on. So here's our two sponsors. Are Call, your advanced call center software, complete business plone and contact center, one hundred percent natively integrated into any serum and outreach, a customer engagement platform that helps efficiently and...

...effectively engage prospects to drive more pipeline and close more deals. Thank you for listening. I will see you next time.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (405)