The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

26. From a Big Company to a Startup to an IPO w/Andrea Gellert

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This week on the Sales Hacker podcast, we interview Andrea Gellert, one of the most respected marketing and sales executives in the industry. Andrea is currently CMO and CRO of OnDeck and has built an incredible career as a marketer over the past 20 years. Tune in as we chat with Andrea Gellert— marketing expert, CRO of OnDeck, and former American Express executive!

One two one tee: Three Fo, I folks it's Sam Jacobs. I am the hostof the Sales Hacker podcast and I believe this is episode. Twenty seven!Well, that is amazing. Now it's twenty six sorry! I was wrong episode. Twentysix, so we've got a fairly exceptional executive in ourments. For thisinterview, we've got Andre Gellar she's, the chief marketing officer and ChieFrevenue Officer. VONDEC CAPITALANDUC is a public company providing lendingand financing two small menium size, businesses and Andrea shares a lot ofher experience in this interview about her career, going from fifteen years inAmerican, express where she cut her teeth on marketing and data andanalytics and then took on more roles as she grew and then made a leap fromyou know a massive. However, many hundreds of thousands of people attensof thousands of people, American Express employees down to Ondeckcapital and when she joined them they just had seventy people, and so shetalks about that transition. She talks about the skills that you need todevelop moving. As always, we talk about from an individual contributor toa manager which she attributes her success to and also the power ofinfluence management, which is a really key theme, so we'll be hearing fromAndrea shortly. But first we want to thank our sponsors. The first sponsoris ar call, hopefully you've taken a look at air call at this point. But ifyou haven't a really fast growing company, it's a phone system designedfor the modern sales team, they seemlessly in a grate into your crm.They eliminate data entry for your reps and they provide you with greatervisibility at your team's performance through advance reporting. Assuming youmeans a manager type person when it's time to scale, you can add new linesand minutes and use incall coaching to reduce ramtime. So the website is aircalled tat, Io Fori, plas sales hacker that is air, called a IO fold. SalesHacker go there to see why wo were done in Brad Street tipe drive, thousands ofothers trust air call for the most critical sales conversations and thenour second sponsor is outreach. So that's out reached at Ao. They are theleading sales engagement platforms, outreach triples the productivity ofsales teams and empowers them to drive predictable and measurable revenuegrowth by prioritizing the right activities and scaling customerengagements with intelligent animation outreach makes customer facing teamsmore effective and improves his ability into what really drives results, sothat website is outwirk, statio follerh sales, tacker again outreached out isleforh sales hacker to see how thousands of customers, including cloudera aclass door, Fandora and Zilo, rely on out reach to deliver higher revenue,her sales rap and now, let's listen to our interview with Antre Geller everybody, it's Sam Jacobs. I am yourfriendly neighborhood host of the sales hacker podcast, as hopefully, you know.At this point I am the founder of the New York revenue, collective, I'm also,the chief revenue officer of a wonderful big data, machine learning,Ai Platform focused on people analytics called behaveox. But that is not why wehere today, we are here today to interview Andra Gellart, who is one ofthe most noteworthy leaders in I think broudly to find the east coast, butcertainly in the New York City, tech, community she's. Currently, chiefRevenue Officer and Chief Marketing Officer of an deck, the largest onlinesmall business lender in the US she's been Chie Revenue Officer since MayTwenty second and she's responsible for all revenue generation processes acrossOndeck, including marketing sales and business partnerships. Previously she'sgot more than fifteen years of marketing and client service experiencegeared towards the small tomedium size business market. So she served as VP ofclient services and operations at group commerce and she also spent overfifteen years in leadership positions at American Express, including both theopen small business and merchant services divisions. She is anundergraduate degree of Harvard College, so she is fancy and smart and she hasan Mba from the kelag graduate school of Management at northwestern, sowelcome Andrea. Thank so much for...

...joining us thanks. So much for havingme Sam, it's great to be here. We are very excited about it. So one of thethings we always try to start some. A lot of people know who you are, andthen some people don't- and this is going out frankly, all over theuniverse wherever there are sales hacker fans. So we like to get a littlebit of your baseball card, which is some of your quick stats and learn alittle bit about on deck and then about the organization that you'reresponsible for so your name's Andrew Gellart, your cro and Cmo of on deck.Tell us just briefly about on deck, including you know. It's a publicCOMPANI! So tell us what you can tell us about the size of the company. Therevenue fookprint things like that sure on deck, which is company, I'm superproud of, was really built to respond to a major meed out in the US and theninternationally, which is giving spot businesses access to the financing thatthey need to grow and maintain their businesses. So we provide smallbusiness loans to small businesses and we do it through a combination of avery automated online system in a very high touch offline system as well, andwe've been business now over about ten years celebrated our tenth anniversaryrecently and we've lown over close to ten billion dollars to overeightthousand smalt businesses during that time. So that's what we do. Yes, as younoted, we went public, intwo thousand and fourteen, which was a very excitingtime, as we raised two hundred million dollars on the day of our IPO and we'renow at three hundred and fifty milliondollar revenue company, and wehave about four hundred and fifty people. So that's a that's what we doher DONDEC and you so you manage marketing sales and partnerships. Howapproximately? How big is the organization that you're responsiblefor right? So the organization I'm responsible for is about a hundred andthirty people. The majority of the team, not surprisingly, is our inside salesteam, and then I have followed by a marketing team and then a businesspartnership team, that's exciting, so we will dive into all of that,particularly because I think the route that you came up through, which is themarketing root, is interesting in that you inherited, I guess the sales andRevenue Responsibility explicitly and we'll talk about sort of what of thechallenges there and sort of what you've seen, but I think first things.First, you know we mentioned that you went to Harvard and the end you gotyour Mba from Kellog a what's the origin story. How did you get toAmerican Express and what was t just tell us a little bit about your careerand how you made it to where you are today absolutely well. I grew up in LosAngeles, so just even getting to accompany New York was a bit of asurprise to me, and certainly my family. I thought I was going to be a lawyer,lots of lawyers in the family and then, when I was starting to think aboutapplying to law school. I thought wow. This just doesn't seem like it's thatmuch fun and then sudden all the lawyers I knew were telling me thatthere were just too many lawyers, and that was a real moment for me, becauseI was about a year out of college had always assumed. I would go to lawschool and then thought, Oh, no, I don't want to go to law school now.What in the world am I going to do so made my way into business, went tobusiness school? Actually, to get into marketing and thought that I was goingto do consumer products, that's one of the reasons why I chose Calogu itsreally known for its consumer products focus- and I was looking at my summerintership opportunities and was trying to choose between American Express andCallgate Pamaliv and America Express the small business division was hiring.I thought that was really interesting. I hadn't really spent that much time.Thinking about small businesses, I had an American expresscard, so I knew whatthat was like really appreciated the brand and had a really niceconversation there and then went to Colget Poma, of which you should havebeen the dream. Fror me, and this is not a knock on callgate PAMAB. It'sreally just more, but an insiht into me, which is, I was going through my finalrounds of Turcelde conversations and I had a meeting with a person who was thedirector of one of the brands at colgate and I walked into his officeand he was the director of Deonre and so all around his office. I don't knowthere must have been thirty different packages, a Duterat and thit's likea.It's like a strange popere mture of so...

...many different sents. Exactly you knowlong lasting shortlasting, whatever it was, you know clear, not clear, and youknow listen like I think. JATERD is a great thing, but when I left there Ithought you know what do I want to do every day when I wake up? What do Iwant to look in the mirror and say that I'm focused on and you know, sellingmore shelf feet of georint compared to solving a longer term. Financial Cashbomanagement problem for small businesses was what I had to weigh and I justgrativitated towards e the financial services problem that American stresswas trying to solve because they were both fantastic brands. I knew I wasgoing to get a great experience at both of them and honestly thought that Iwould be an American Express for three to five beers, never expected to bethere for fifteen years, but the company did a great job of moving mearound. I had multiple careers, I would say I was there both in marketingacount management, a strategic industry development, but I always knew that inmy heart of hearts that I wanted to be part of a smaller company and reallyhelp shape and form a smaller company in a bigger way, and that's ultimately,what brought me the Ondeck and so walk us through a little bit of your fifteenyears, an American Express because it's clear that they taught you a lot. Sowere you ont a marketing track? You mentioned, you did account management.Yu did a few different things was there are cord discipline that you enteredthat you sort of apprenticed in? Was it truly like a cross functionalmultidisciplinary program? How do how did you think about you know theevolution of your skill, sed ats, such a big company, sure I started in inwhat now is known as open the small vusness card division and started therein a marketing rule and market caacity? I was doing acquisition marketing solearn all of the fundamentals about direct marketing and direct responseand direct mail, and you know a lot of the functions that American Express arehave a threeline core marketing that you do so. My next job at AmericanExpress was a job that was really focused on opening a new industries toplastic acceptance. This would have been I he in the late s and peopleforget that it wasn't so long ago that you couldn't use a credit card at acrosery store or at the post office, or I COSCO places like that n. Thisdepartment was really focused on opening up t e card acceptance and itwas on the merchant side of the business and that's where I reallyflexd my industry strategy and development skills, always with theLens of marketing right, because the goal once you opened up theseindustries was to work to encourage American's WST card members to usetheir card there. So there was a lot of marketing is part of t, the deals thatwe were doing and the value proposition to those merchants. And so then, Ispent some time from there taking on larger Industri. So I managed a largeportfolio of hotel companies that were merchant partners or Emergan partnersof American Express and again when you're, working with Hiat, Er holidayand or four seasons. What they're really interested in is access to theAmerican Express custer base so which requires marketing. So we would spend alot of time sort of matshing up what they could bring to the table from anoutreagh perspective and what America Express could do from an outreachperspective, and then I actually went back to open then spent the last coupleof years at America Express, I would say, bringing that all together andfocusing on an overall customer experience, role and retention role andand learning about how to create best customer strategies on the back on thecard member side, which, again as marketing open, appears to me as anoutsider, to be sort of one of the tent pole. Success Stories of AmericanExpress over the last fifteen to twenty years. Is that accurate? As that howit's perceived within the organization? I think so. I think that creating a abrand, it was the first sepbrand that American Express have had, and I thinkfor a while there was this question about. Do we need a suprand? We notneed sat brand. I think it's been...

...effective and I think it responds tothe classic issue. Larger companies have when trying to serve smallbusiness customers and in fact my experience it on deck. I think for flexwhat I learned there, which is that when you most companies try to reachconsumers and they're trying to do it at scale with with customer acquisition,costs that are really low or they're trying to reach large enterprises,institutional sales or big B to b sales, and there right your costo acquisitionis much higher, but the yield is higher. Small businesses are somewhere inbetween. You have to market to them more, like consumers in terms of themedia they consume. How do you engage with them because there are a lot ofthem and they're very fragented, but you have to do so with a level ofservice and focus and orientation that speaks to the fact that theyre businessowners right? I always say that small businesses don't like cute marketingright. They want to be taken seriously as the business owners that they arebecause they're responsible for employing people, they play criticalroles in their communities and the like. You know that said, they're hard toreach, because you know at Ondeck, for example, we market tod, seven hundreddifferent industries and trying to reach a and communicate effectivelywith a a plumber in Arizonais, very different than trying to do so with a adoctor in Arizona, let Alona a doctor in in antucket Massachusett. So I think,because from a very probably the mid Nis on Americans, trest decided to takethis focus and make it a separate business division and really try tounderstand the segment that it did create a hallmark brand within a brand,and I learned certainly a ton from that experience that I've taken with me toblace like on deck. When you think about what you learned personally orwhen you are telling the story of your success to yourself or to others. What do you attribute your success to,particularly because you know, navigating such a large organization isreally difficult? What specific skills of we're speaking out to the folks thatare listening? Do you think, play to the larger role or a disproportionaterole and helping you move up the ladder at American Express sure there aredefinitely a few things that come to mind. First is developing realyesstrong Pur relationships and crossfunctional relationships? That wastrue at Mx. I think that's true everywhere at this point, that your jobis always going to involve a matrix, and he the way you're going to getthings done is through other people, often people who don't or in yourdirect group or work for you, and so you need to have really strongrelationships to be able to influence your own outcomes through other people,so influence management is something I certainly learn how to do right ateight thousand First Company: That's how you're going to get things done isthrough strong influence management skills which, secondly, an I thinkhartly contributes to. That is what kind of communication skills do youhave? What kind of how effective are you herbaly or in writing thatarticulating what you're trying to accomplish backing up that up would behow strategic are you? Are you thinking about where you are and where you'retrying to get to you know, or you just focus tactically every day and I thinkgoodtacticians are extremely important but from a career progressionperspective, I think what I was able to do was to demonstrate that I reallyunderstood how to get things done and then took on more responsibility andshowed that I was able to make that transition from somebody who just getsthings done to somebody who can determine what should get done and whenyou're talking about what should get done. That's whate you're talking aboutstrategy and when you're thinking about being good at strategy, is it alearnable skill in your opinion? Is there are there things that you can doas an individual to get better or is it innate in some way? I think it's a bitof both. I think some people naturally gravitate to strategy and some peoplenaturally gravitate to tactics. That...

...said, I think anybody can be a morefocused in critical thinker. If you just are willing to ask the constantquestions right. Are You thinking about? Where are we now? Where do I want toget to just even asking yourself that question I often say to people: What'syour from to Wherere, we moving from and whe're trying to get to, and justeven getting people comfortable with that kind of model can help them thinkmore strategically and ask that question of themselves and otheir teamsfirst, because if you, if you have an idea of where you want to go, thenfiguring out how to get there, which ultimately is the strategy is a loteasier, but often people get stuck because they're just not even focusedon where they want to go because they're so grounded in what they'redoing today and where they are, that make sense. So I think that wassomthing, and then I just it would say. The other thing that I learned a ton offrom American Express was how do you manage people, because it's notintuitive at all, and I think one of the things I certainly brought to ondeck is that managing people as much more about a discipline than it is justa a natural thing. People ore know how to do, and I think earlier stage.Companies definitely have a challenge with that. If they have a lot of peoplewho don't have a lot of trained manageral experience, what are the keymanagement principles that you adhere to and maybe give us one or two superspecific tactics that you use to ow in your management strategy right well, Ireally believe that people are the most productive and motivated where theyunderstand again where the company is trying to go. What success looks likeand how their role links to that right, so that they can really draw a straightline between what they're doing and the company's success. And I know thatsounds like it's obvious, but often I find people have roles you know whand.I come into other companies and talke like so. What are you working on?Somebody will give me an answer and then I'll say so. Why is that- and yousay it Byeslee but like? Why is that important? Why does that matter and ifthey're not sure, that's problem right, and I think you know that can happenmore than you realize, so just you know making sure that the roles are welldefined. I think organization, structure and Rorle definition drivesat ton in terms of setting up the right management framework, so that sort ofthing one thing too, is having concrete goals. Here's what we expect you toaccomplish in this time period as measured by which is the CODA people,often forget about right, that we want you to do this as measured by thatsuper important and then having a really robust professional development,Pan right here, the two things that I'm working on to grow, my skils and here'sthe one thing that I'm really good at that I'm working on to take to the nextlevel, and it should just be three things: Ire People can't I don now. Doyou play golf like t you ever had somebody trying to correct your golfwing they're like and then these fifteen things are wrong, you're justgoing to like walk off the course right. But if there are three things you canfocus on and get really specific about the areas of focus. So not just that. Ilet's say I want to be better at speaking and CRESENTATIONS, okay! Well,haw. What are you going to do? Well, I'm going to try to present it to inthe next six months and here the topics that I'm going to do and I willprepresent in front of some of my collegues. I like make thatprofessional developent playing a real plan. First US just areas ofimprovement that you want to focus on. Do you use a weekly one on one to do?That is that sort of how you manage your direct reports right? I have aweekly one on one with my direct reports. I have by weekly one on oneswith my executive colleagues and then I would say I have monthly one on oneswith of other keystate holders in the business, I'm in a lot of meetings. SonMy day today is a lot of meetings. I think everybody's anybody, that's inany kind of management position, is pretty much back to back in meetingsand then in the question is how do you leverage those meetings to get thingsdone right and it's funny, because I...

...feel like over time. I've tried toevolve what my one on ones with my direct reports are that it used to be.I don't know if I would encourage this, or my direct report would come out andsay here the fifteen things that I'm working on now, I'm less focus on the laundry listof activities but hear the three things that have the most impact to thebusiness. Let's really focus on those three things versus. I don't need thelaundry list of things that you're doing every day right unless you'rehaving challenges, then I want you know you need my help on them. Yeah exactly.But let's jet to your point right is set the direction, let's figure Ou,where we're trying to go and then let's prioritize and how you get theres partof the beauty of your own autonomy. It is it's also the hardest part, and Ithink this is a challenge at big companies, but it's especially achallenge at small companies, which is how do there's so many great things wecould be doing. There's so many awesome things to be working on. I want to workon all of them and one of the hardest things I think to do as a leader is tosay you know what we can't do all of them at any given moment. We have topick the top three, the top fibe that are going to be the biggest Ang when wepersin our business and then we'll go to the next five and then we'll go tothe next five bit we'll get to all of them, but we're just not going to dothem all at once, and that's a really hard, I think thing to to stick to as aleader, particularly in a smaller company. It is the absolute artist hing.So so your fifteen years, an American Express and, to your point, you've,always had that itch of I want to go to a smaller company and feel that thrill,how did you select on deck and then you know, you've been there on a prettywild ride right p there when it was seventy people. It's now north of fourhundred people you've been through an IPO, so walk us through some of thelessons that you've learned, but I'm particularly interested in sort of howyou ended up there in the first place and then and then what you saw. As yougrew sure I ended up there. I wasn't looking for a new role. I had had leftAmerican Express after fifteen years, because I had known like I said that I alwayswanted to move into something smaller and I had an opportunity to work at anearly stance. It was like a series B company. They just rente raise EIRseries B company. It was a really interesting value proposition in thewhat was the hot daily deal market at the time, and I wasn't looking to leave.I was really enjoying this startup community. Although t the funniestthing for me was that when I first got there a t, a few months in the officeswere in Soho, classic lofsstyle Startup Company and my kids came to visit andat the time they must have been eight and twelve and they've been used tovisiting me. An American Express- and so they come up to this office and theysaid like this: Is it mom? He knows everything? Okay, you knowwhere where'syour where's, your office, and I said well, I'm sitting at that table overthere and they were like. I eerything came on I ar we rehow Ma how manypeople are at this company, and I said I think at that time too. I was aboutseventy people and my daughter, who's twelve was like seven zero, likedaren't any more seros on that mom like no it's a smaller company yeah. It wasreally funny. It was one of these environments where you know the Texhpeople were playing with other remote control gadgets, which migt that somethaugt was just the coolest thing. So I was really enjoying that. I reallythink that if you're ready, not everybody is suitable or interested ingoing to from a very large company to a very small company, but within a monthI just felt, like I hadn't, been in a large company in years which to me mademe realize I'd made the right decision, so I was having a great time there. Iwas servd nine months in and I got a call from a head under about anopportunity to head up marketing edit company that was focused on smallbusiness lending, and that spoke to my heart. It really when, when I think youknow about the areas that I am interested in, you K W marketing andsmall business ere, always at the top...

...of my list, and so I couldn't say nohad to talk to this person to find out more and the more we talked the moreinterested I became, and so ultimately I joined the company, but I was fairlydisciplined about how I went about doing it. I think it's really importantwhen you're talking to an early stage company, that you get access to totheir documents and understand what their strategy is, that you understandwhat their funding structure is and to ondex credit, and this Baks to, I think,a really important part of of an early stage company that thethead severalboard members interview me and that told me a lot about ind. Myconversations with the board members told me a lot about how invested theboard was Anon deck and how that I felt leaving those conversations that thiswas a company that was not just well funded but well supported and that therelationship between our CEO Ond, the board was going to be a really was avery healthy one and that we would get the support from the board in additionto their money. And so when I added it all up, I thought you know. This is agreat opportunity for me to pursue, and so that's when that's when I joined thecompany and when you're joining as a head of marketing- and you knowthereare, these massive growth plans was part of the interview process.Here's how much and also because he spent so much time at America Expressmarketing to small businesses in a sort of a skill set in channels that areprobably pretty similar right. Did you have a point of view and like listen,I'm going to need a hundred million dollars to do this. The Right Way andhere's how I'm going to spend it wher you forced a bit to put together aresource plan that sort of helped you articulate what your plan was and whatyour strategy was absolutely and, in fact, Lon things that we do on deck isthat we make that part of the interview process. So I actually had to prepare afull marketing plan as part of my interview process- and I actually knowanybody on our team has to have some kind o project that they do mainly. Sowe can see how they think. U Particularly, I think, with marketers.We can be very good at talking, and so you really don't always necessarilyknow how somebody thinks unless you give them a an exercise to do so. So Iactually o put together. Oh Gosh, it was like a tentwelve pagedocument on the front and before I even got the job, and then I actually usedthat quite a bit in my first don't know three three four months at the companyand resource clan was definitely hard of it, but I also knew- and this is whyI think it was good that Ihad been in an early stage company prior to comingto Ondeck. I knew that there were only so many resources that I couldpractically ask for you know this. Wasn't a company that was going tomarket through huge brand initiatives that that would the thing that weneeded to do was really demonstrate that we could go directly to smallbusinesses. The go to market strategy before had been through the large sortof broker business, that services, small businesses for a ton of differentthings, and so really the idea was: let's demonstrate that we can godirectly to small businesses and that will give us the opportunity to thenask for more resources. You done marketing to small businesses atAmerican. Express I'm curious, we're the same channels- and I guess now youknow years later are the same channels still as productive. Is it still. Youknow the mixture of direct mail and maybe direct response, email or what'schanged. I guess in the way that you can market a small businesses andwhat's become really, interestingly, productive and what's also declined inproductivity over the past couple of years. Sure I think I think a lot ofthe tools are similar, as I mentioned to you before, reaching fall.Businesses is tough, given this scale and scope and diversity of them, and sothere are certain tools that allow you to be effective at filtering, and Ithink that one of the unique things about our business lending in generalis that you have what we call this double funal. So I can explain whatthat is, which is that you know...

...normally in a shopping experience.Let's say you want to go, buy shoes, you, like Zappos, you go to Zappos, youdecide what color shoe you want. What type of shoe you want! You give themyour suicize and then you just go, buy the shoe right in as long as you havethis. Your credit cards not denied you're going to get the shoe in ourbusiness. A small business comes and says I want financing for my business.We say: Okay, give us some information, and then we tell the small business A.Are we willing to give you that money and be if we are here, is the dirationsalone willing to give you here's the amount of money we're willing to giveyou and here's the price that we're willing to give you? So that's a verydifferent buying experience and what it means from a marketing funalperspective is that you have this two step: Conversion Right, there's a firststep which is interest and then there's the second step, which is actuallyapproving somebody for a loan and then booking them for the loan. And so it'sreally important that you filter out people who you will never approve foralone, when we first apparently started testing digital marketing. This isbefore I came to the company. We were looking at search terms and, like Oh,we ou know were ranking for small business grants. That was awesome. Wewere getting a ton of traffic from Google for small business friends. Theproblem is that we weren't getting loans from that, because people who arelooking for small business grants are generally prerevenue and in ourbusiness one of the requirements is that you have to have at least hundredthousand in revenue. The mediun is closer to five hundred. You need to bein business at least a year. The meeting I think is somewhere aroundseven and so the more filtering you can do on the front end right. Half thehalf the battle on marketing and financial services is who don't Imarket to not do I market to and there's often an inverse correlationthe people whoe most eager to get money, oftenar the people who are leastqualified to get it? So so that's where things like directkmale still work well,because there's just a ton of information that you can filter onMonolon Etceta with Dreck mail that you can't do with other channels. That said,I think, certainly the world is involved in terms of how everybodyshops. You know how everybody is trying to find out information, and so weleveraged a lot of content. We know that, even if somebody sees a directmail piece of bars or listen, O o here's t a radio aut of ars. The verynext thing t twey're going to do is come to our website and try to learnmore about us because we're not the household thing right, we're not Zappos,so making sure that we connect the dots on all of our marketing and connectthat to a positive website. Experience, I would say, is the one thing: that'schanged a lot fom my perspective versus you, K, Ow, doing direct response workten years ago by connect the dots. Do you mean sort of consistent landingpages or like positioning messaging, which is consistent across all thedifferent channels that you're marketing against right? You need to beout in front of the small business kind of more and more frequently, not justbecause they're busy, which they are, but also because just the level ofnoise out there in the market is so high. So how do you make sure that whenpeople hear your message that they associate it with you and that somebodyelse, how do you stand out from a different JATION perspective? Meanourfirst tagline here when we, when we did our first branding work about a year orso after I got here, was on deck? We actually want to lend a small business.The reason why we love that so much was because you couldn't swap our logo outand put Banka or bank be or bank sea or American, express it right so, but thatmessage has to be consistent across all of your different marketing channelsand then also just needs to follow up. I think the other big change is justwith marketing automation. All of the followup nertering that you can do nowjust makes it sometimes overwhelming right in terms of your strategies, butbut gives you a real tool to follow up,...

...because not everybody needs yourproduct at that very moment, maybe they're just trying to learn like well.Maybe if I needed financing do I want to go to Ondeck? How do we make surewe're doing what we can to maintain communication and then over time,develop a relationship sept that when they do need financing they'll comeback to us? That's interesting, so, especially with nurturing, I mean theworld is so complicated and there are also so many different ways of gettingsomebody's attention that maintaining that attention, wath sort of thoughtfulcontent is seems to be the order of the day. It is, and I would sa the otherinteresting difference is just how much of that has to float through to ourselve team right. So one of the things we've been working on here is: How dowe make sure that all this great content we're producing is a marketingteam is easily digestible and usable by oursaves teams, because people areexpecting follow up from the people they have interactions with, and yourselfs team in a way that they'd never expected that before you started off asthe Cmo von Deck, and then you recently inherited the Ciaro title. What havebeen the big changes I mean? Have you run you're now running sales teams? Hadyou done that before and what sort of surprised you and what was consistentwith your previously held beliefs when it comes to running the entire revenorganization, as opposed to just a marketing component right? So Ienherited sales and business partnerships about a year and a halfago and became the cro may wo thosand and seventeen so just a little over ayear ago, and it's been a ton of fun, I just being able to have all thosedepartments and and see how they can connect and how they interact has beengreat but Ihade, never runed an inside sales team. Before I had managedrelationships with Third Party callcenter menders. So I was familiarwith what people in a kind of call center need which overlaps somewhat,although not a hundred percent with when you have your own inside salesteam. But I wasn't. It wasn't entirely new to me, but it was definitelydifferent and the scaleis totally different right. You go from running toa twenty person, marketing team to adding a hundred people from sales.Business Partnerships was more similar and I spent a lot of time doing accountmanagement development work, but I think the thing that's been interestingto me is just how the three organizations have such differentpersonalities. There's there's a little bit of a like man. Er from Mars, womenare from Venus a dynamic hat that goes on right where marketers like data andthey like structure and they they are not. And I don't know if thisis goo thing, our bad thing. It's just the way. It is right, we're trained tokind of keep our emotions out of it and let Abe testing tell us what worksversus what doesn't work and we can be fairly. I don't know like kind ofdirect and a sertofe in our communication styles, and then you goto your business partnerships team, which is a little bit like you know theforging new forging new paths and they see what's possible and they want totake a lot of risk and they are very client oriented right. You know we wantto make sure that that our big clients are getting what they need from us andand they like, and then you have sales which to be a good salesperson. Youreally need to be much more intuitive. You need torely, I think, on your Eq a lot good sales people and good sales leaders arevery data driven, but they also leverage, I would say their gut andtheir instincts, particularly your more seasoned, your season sales team. In away you have to listen to, you have to pay attention to, and so one of thethings I've worked on on a lot and there's still more to do is just how dothese threse teams communicate to each other and sort of in a way that theother team will absorb and respond? And the like? That's, I think, been themost interesting. What are some of the changes that you've instituted to helpdrive that communication? Sure I've done some organizational realignmentand you know for so. For example, we have a business partnerships team,we've now cronsolidated our folks Doing Business Partnership Sales Al under oneroof, they've been more distributed...

...before so that's created a more unifiedand coordinated type of communication. I think that's that's been superhelpful. We created a consolidated revenue operations team, so there usedto be sells operations and there was marketing operations and we, we createda a single team. That's responsible for both that's helped a lot becausetheyare taking input from both teams and and often cando, the translationreally effectively, and then we've been really building out recently, our salesanavlement team and levrarging them to take a lot of what marketing is doingand figuring out how best to package it in a way that sales can useit. So those are the kinds of things that we've been doing: Yeah no salesanableman is something everybody's talking about these days and sort ofhow do you take the collateral and the messaging and the positioning and thenput it in front of the salesperson at the right moment at the right timeright which is difficult to do so. One of the last things I just wanted totalk about, which is something you've sort of dealt with your by definition, your whole life, butspecifically in the context of like leadership, is gender and you know:You're, a chief revenue officer, Youre Chief Marketing Officer, you're, one ofthe senior executive team members at a public company. I'm sure it hasn't beeneasy, wltell US your thoughts on female leadership. What do you think as awoman you've done differently, or have you not done d? Anything differently?You know how do you what's your advice out there to the young women and thefolks that don't always have the same options as other people on on how tothink about their career, to maximize the the results in the output? Just asmall question here: e Sixty Secondspeexactlysurorso, it'sinteresting. I was fortunate, I think, to grow up at a place like AmericanExpress that had even from when I started there. Many senior femaleleaders- and I think that that taught me how to find my voice right, becauseI had role models who showed how they use theirs. But I do think you have tofind your voice and I think that when I work with and mentor younger women, Isee a couple things that aren't universally true right. So I don't wantto fo this to come off as, like all women are x and Ol men or why? But I'venoticed a few things that I try to coach women in particular on and andthe first one is how to make sure that they're, merchandising and selling whatthey're doing. I think that often women assume more than men, that that, if Ido good work, it will be noticed and it will be appreciated and it will berecognized, and I think, at the end of the day, somebody who who worked for meonce is actually a guy was like no one loves you like you, love you right, so you've got to really be willing toshare what you're doing right and in fact another woman. I know who was avery early senior leader. I think it at one of the carmental companies who runsa women's leadership program said that if people don't know what you're doing,then they can't appreciate you right, and so you have to be able tocommunicate to people what you're doing and why that matters and do it in aquantitative way right, explain the impact of what you're doing and whyit's important for the business versus this is a great initiative. I did rightthe so what needs to be linked and labeled so think number one in thingnumber two is how to make sure that you're networking- and I think thatthis is something that I've observed. You know that men tend to feel morecomfortable, doing more naturally than women. Do that that this idea again theexample that this senior leader in this wimis leadership program, Ven, Ud,always stuck with me, which is at she saw her husband in the study and ND. Hewas on the phone and he gets off the phone and she says hey, you know whowere you talking to, and he said you...

...know John Johnsmith, and she said I'venever heard. You know I haven't heard of Johnsmit, you know who was en. I waslike. Oh it's a it's a buddy of mine and she said really. When was the lasttime you talked to him. He said Oh Gosh, I was like twenty years ago and shesaid Imean twenty years ago, like I wouldn't reach out O to John Smith. IfI didn't send him a Christmas card last year, you know like e sort of Hav, this idea that you should be able tolike how do you? How do you make sure that you have an extensive network ofpeople that you can that you can reach out to and it's okay for that to be amore transactional relationship? It doesn't have to be a deep friendship,but it can be a transactional relationship and then the third, Ithink, is how do you advocate for yourself. I am always amazed- or I havebeen more amazed with WHO comes into my office, to ask for promotions and askfor raises versus who doesn't and I got to say- and it just makes me sad everytime I think about it- that the ratio of men to women doing that is gosh fiveto one fourty, one right that Ou just women need to be willing to advocatefor themselves and get what you think you deserve aout it out of your job,ind your career, and if you don't ask you won't get so, I would say just tryto be more assertive. Are you optimistic the future of gender anddiversity in the workforce, sort of a loaded question? I hope you say es, butwhat do you think? I think? So I think if you just look atthe demographic ships, that alone is happening. I think that the work life balance changes that havehappened over time. I mean I just think like when I went on maternity leave. Ihad to kind of SCREAP, together twelve weeks from a combination of unbasically,even paid vacation and unpaid vacation to to Steven get it and now in mostcompanies you know twelve. Even sixteen weeks is standard. I think the abilityto work from home and not have it be seen as a black mark on your. You know,O on your abilities, there's just so much more flexibility, and I so I thinkthe combination of just where our demographics are going and and the factthat technology allows for a much greater diversity of work type. Thatmakes me really really optimistic, and yet I do think that we need moreleadership at the top to stimulate it. You know when I joined on deck, wedidn't have any female board leaders. I was the most senior woman that was atthe company. I know that because I was at the company, we were able to recruitmore women to the company at all levels, and we now do have a woman on the boardand that's been extremely helpful and it's not just about having differentgenders it's. It is really true that you get different perspectives when youhave diversity o of all kinds, so we should all be trying to get there yeah.I Agree Andrew Thank so much for participating last couple. Questionsare really a way of haying it forward a little bit for the for the listenersout there that you know are looking to emulate or just you know, read what youread or learn what you learn any any great business books out there thatsort of influenced you any great podcasts, you're listening to just waysof following the bread com trail sure. So on the businessbook front, and Iread a lot of fiction, but I do try to sprinkle in business books O on theside. I really enjoyed a book that recently came out called prime toperform super interesting book all about how do you make sure you'retapping into what motivates your employees and that motivation really isderived from joy and the love of what people doing are doing far more thanmonetary incentive, ancelery benefits and the like? And so how do you reallyfocus on on what creates join for your employees and how to infuse that intotheir work, super interesting book podcast? I'm a big fan of the Jist. Ialso like MPR one. Those are the top of my my list right now, great well, prime,to provide that sounds very interesting. Last points o any life, Moto or gidingprinciples out there for the folks that want to embody you or emulate you lifeprinciples. You know, I think that I...

...think it's important to always makesure that you're true to yourself and that you you're willing to have ahonest assessment of yourself and that you are able to have honestconversations with others. I always say that if you were often ask to get iufeedback, whether or not it's three sixty feetback or Pur, freeback orwhatever- and I always say you should always first try to give the feed backdirectly to somebody right that you should never write feedback that isn'tdascribed to you, because that says something about sort of the strength ofyour relationship. IG Did your uncomfortable putting your name intofeedback that you're giving about someone an? Is it really okay for youto give that bee back right and challenge yourself to figure out how tohave that more onest conversation so that you could put your name to thatfeed back and say? Well, I've already talked to this person about it, buthere's what we've talked about before that has paid me tons of dividends. As,as I said, you know Givin that one. I think the key key things you need to begood at as a leader as influence management yeah. Well, that's greatadvice, Andrea! Thank you! So much for participating. We know you're very busy,you're running revenue and marketing and partnerships for a major publiccompany. So it's been a real pleasure to have you on the show and thank youagain Saam thanks. So much for having me it's been delightful eeverybody I sam this is Sam's corner.We had another great conversation with Andrew Geller Chief Marketing OfficerChief Revenue Officer from on deck, one of the things that I always ask at theend of every interview that I forgot to ask this time was: if you want to getin touch with Andre, what should you do so? I did ask her that offline and shesays contact her on Linkdon she's, pretty easy to find her title veryclearly says: Chief Marketing Officer and she frevenale officer. She says heremail inbox is totally jammed up. So if you want to get in touch with Andrea,that's the way in terms of sort of notable takeways from the conversation,I think there's a lot when we talk about managers and executives and howthey got there. They talk about how they advocate for themselves a lot ofthe time and sort of understanding your own personal advocacy Andrew mentionedit in the context of sort of a gender divide. She says men tend to advocatefor themselves kind of four to five times more often in her experience, andso, if you're, a woman and you want that equality, one of the things she'ssaying is, if you don't ask you can't get, but another point that she made isthat it's always important to quantitatively describe the impacts ofyour performance when you're managing upwards. So when you talk about it,initiative that you accomplished or you talk about a sale, always try tointerpret that and articulate that and translate that into numbers and I'lltell you. I see so many sales resumes the immediate thing, I'm scanning forwhen I'm skinning an account executive resume, I'm looking for numbers, I'mlooking for their quantitative and demonstrated analytical capability toarticulate their performance N in terms that I, as an executive, understandvery well, which is numerically so, if you're working on your resume or you'rethinking about talking about an accomplishment that you've achieved atwork, I would strongly encourage you to use numbers to do so. If your salesperson working on your on your CV, you have to understand. What's your quota?What's your quote attainment, what was your ramp and hopefully those nombersare really impressive. What's your avrage deal size know your businesswhen you're presenting and advocating on your own behalf, so this has beenSam's corner now. Lastly, we want to think our sponsors sof. If Wou're goingto check out the show, notes, see upcoming guests and play more episodesfrom our incredible line. Up of sales leaders go over to sales hackercom headto the PODCAST TAB, we've been growing massively. We've got an incredible lineup of guests over the past month. Here at the sales hacker podcast, wefeatured everybody from Mark Cranny to Tamo Tum Koose to Chris Foss, author ofnever split the difference and we've got more great people to come. You'llfind us on itunes or Google play, and if you enjoyed the episode, pleaseshare with your peers on linked in twitter or elsewhere. If you want toget in touch with me, I think the best way is still Lincoln. That's Linkeoncom,inslash, Sam ef Jacobs and then finally,...

...a big shout out to our sponsors. Tothis episode, Air Call Your Advanced Call Center softhware, completebusiness phone and contact center, one hundred percent natively intergratedinto any serum and outreach, a customer engagement platform that helpsufficiently and effectively engage prospects to drive more pipe line andclose more deals. I will see you next time.

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