The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

28. The Key Habits and Systems that Power High Growth SaaS Companies w/ Chris Degnan

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

We sat down with Chris Degnan, CRO of Snowflake Computing, one of the fastest growing SaaS businesses in the world, to learn how he went from being the first rep to leading the sales entire sales organization.

One, two, one three,pot hey team, it's the salesacker podcast and your host Sam Jacobs. I'mthe founder of the revenue collective. We started in New York. We've nowgot chapters in London and we'RE LAUNCHING BOSTON, Toronto and Denver Pretty soon, sothat's pretty exciting. I'm also the chief Revenue Officer of a company calledBehave Os, but most importantly I'm the host of this show and this isepisode twenty nine. We've got a great show. Today we're interviewing Chris Stagnant, who is the chief Revenue Officer of Snow Flake Computing. Snowflake and Chrisparticularly are a great story about going from Chris was actually the first sales hireat snowflake. They didn't ever go to market model, they didn't have ago to market commercial strategy. Chris built that from the ground up. Theyare now well past a hundred million and rr and one of the most successfulenterprise technology businesses to come out of Silicon Valley and in fact out of theUS in a long, long time. And Chris has an amazing approach tohow we managed his career, how we sought out mentors, how he laidthe foundation so that he could one day become a VP of sales and acro and it's a fantastic conversation. Now one of the things we must do. We must do this. We have to thank our sponsors. We've gottwo sponsors this week and you probably heard of them already. The first isair call. Air Calls a phone call system designed for the modern sales team. They seamlessly, seamlessly, without seems, integrate into your crm, eliminating dataand tree for your rips and providing you with greater ability into your team'sperformance through advanced reporting. Now, when it's time to scale, what canyou do? You know what you can do. You can add new linesin minutes and you can use in caall coaching to reduce ramp time for yournew reps. visit are called Dot ioh for which sales hacker to see whyuber done and Bradstreet, pipe drive and thousands of others trust are call fortheir most critical sales conversations. Our second sponsor is outreach IO, the leadingsales engagement platform. Outreach triples the productivity of sales teams and empowers them todrive predictable and measurable Revenue Growth. That's interesting, isn't it? Now,what's more, by prioritizing the right activities and scaling customer engagement with Intelligent Automation, not stupid automation, it's intelligent automation, outreach makes customer facing teams more effectiveand improves his ability into what really drives results. Hop over to outreach, dio forward slash sales hacker to see how thousands of customers, including cloudere, glass door, Pandora and Zilo, rely on outreach to deliver higher revenuefor Sales Rep now give me two seconds. I want to point outsome fans that have written in. One of the things. If you're listeningto this and you're in the car, that's an honor. That's an honorfor me to be sharing this car ride with you and I want to thanksome of the folks that have reached out. Robert Hanson specifically said that he's beendriving around a lot and I kept him company. Or sorry, Iwe the salesacker podcast team, which is a big team of people, kepthim company on his long drive. We also have outreach from Scott Vander Lake, Masha Rutovski, Trent Vander stelt and Daniel Holberg. So all of you, thanks much for reaching out and the folks that have reached out and saidHey, I drove from Chicago to Austin, Texas and I listen to the saleshaccer podcast the whole way. Thank you. Thank you very much.We've got a bunch of great guests coming up and we've got a bunch ofexciting new content ideas that we're going to be testing. So thank you verymuch. Without further ado, let us listen to Chrisdegnan, CRO at snowflakecomputing. Hey, everybody, it's Sam Jacobs and welcome to the salesacker podcast. Today we're incredibly excited to have Chris degnant on the show. Chris isthe chief Revenue Officer of Snow Flake Computing. He's got a long and story careerin Silicon Valley, originally coming out to the valley in one thousand ninehundred and ninety seven. I'm winding up in San Francisco, during the originalcomboom. His first big start was at EMC, where he spent eight yearsboth as a rep and a frontline sales manager. He then left in twothousand and twelve, which we'll hear about, to join a company called a Vexathat was acquired by EMC and eventually found his way in the summer twothousand and thirteen to snowflake computing. And...

...now snowflake is, I think willfind out, but well over a hundred million and run Raider is certainly closeto that number and one of the fastest growing SASS platforms of all time.They've got over a thousand customers. Chris oversees a sales organization in the US, Europe and the APEC region and we're incredibly excited to have them. SoWelcome, Chris. Thanks. Am Glad to be here. Yeah, we'reglad to have you. So we like to start off to just to framepeople's experience in context. You're Chris Dagnan. You're the CRO it's snow flake computer. Give us a quick thirty second elevator pitch on snowflake. Who theyare, what they do? So at Snow Flake we built a cloud databasefrom scratch and we started building that in two thousand and twelve. Our foundersare PhDs from from Oracle and in other major database companies and we are nativeto the cloud. We are on aws, we are on Microsoft Azure and wesoon next year will be on Google cloud as well. In from acompetitive landscape we compete with Amazon, Google and Microsoft from a cloud day towarehousing perspective. And then on premise venders are folks like tera data or Cole, IBM and Teasa, those types of folks that we compete with on theon premise. Roule, was I correct in the Revenue Range? Give usrough are obviously private company, confidential. But what's the range? Confidential,but what is it? So we'll do from a rep there's obviously two numbers. There's ACV bookings, is really my goal, and there's revenue, whereusage based revenue system so kind of unique in that world. Will do wellover a hundred million dollars in revenue and somewhere in the hundred and fifty milliondollars in dcv bookings this year. Wow. Well, congratulations. That's incredible andthe company, I think, is raised a am I reading this right? Four hundred and sixty three million dollars. Yes, foreigner, sixty three million, butter hill red point. I'll timeter iconic sequoiam a DRONA. Wow, okay, that's a lot of millions. Tell us about your sales, orso how many people? How do the function split out? And Walkus through that a little bit. So we have a field sales organization.I think we originated. I was effectively sales rep number one in snowflake aboutfive years ago, and so we originated as a field selling organization and we'vegrown that to over a hundred and twenty field ups globally. Within my salesteam we also have a corporate sales team, which is our inside sales team,which is about fifteen people and we're really starting to build that muscle,if you will. Now. In addition, we have a BEDR organization and we'reroughly one BDR to every three sales ups. That's our rough ratio.And on top of that I have the sales engineering organization, which is afor every two sales ups there's one see, so it's a two to one ratio. And then we have a I have the alliances organization as well asthe sales operations organization. That is a large organization and am I correct thatyou? I mean you've been doing startups since, or at least you've beendoing software sales, regardless of size, since one thousand nine hundred and ninetyeight. So basically for twenty years. Yeah, yes, that's correct.So you're old just like me. Even going back, I mean I talkedto a lot of people that graduated from, you know, with law degrees orjournalism degrees. How'd you end up in sales in the first place andand how did that journey take you to snowflake? Yeah, I think whenI grew up in the Boston area, I think everyone, I thought everyonemade, you know, money in finance and when I got out to thebay area I got into a program at Franklin Templeton which was a management traineeprogram and they rotate you through departments every four months and it was it wasa great experience and my first rotation was through human resources and I knew thatwas not a career path for me. I did not like HR. Andthen I went into the sales organization and I felt like Hey, this issomething I like. I like trying to sell something. I enjoyed the peoplethat I was talking to, but I didn't necessarily like the finance aspect ofsales. And so that's when, you know, it was Acom Boom.I got involved in startups and I kind of navigated my way to a companycalled covalent technologies, where I was my first real true enterprise tech sale andthen from there got into EMC and you...

...know, that's all she wrote.Now I'm over here at Solf and so emc sort of a big cunt.You started off as a sales rep, is that right? And then walkus through that evolution. You became a manager. How did you end upas the Crro of such a huge company? H It kind of lucky, betterlucky, even good, as I always say. No, you know, when I interviewed a d MC, you know, I think this isprobably old school, but I had a printed resume and I put on theprinted resume my objective was to be the vice president of sales someday. That'svery true to form. I don't think I ever want to do anything otherother than sell. I can't imagine being a CEO. I don't. There'sfunctions within the organization that I never would want to manage. And so fromthat standpoint that was my high level objective and career objective and I kind ofsaid, what are the things that I need to do to get there?So I knew that I had to be a successful sales rap and I didthat for four years and then I really pushed to be a frontline manager andgot that frontline job at Eddie Mc and I'll tell you, a man emhe was a grind. It was a very tough organization to work at.But I learned a lot in the I call it, effectively my MBA andsales at a MC. And then at the end of my time at aMC, I got sick of selling storage. I got introduced to the John mcmahannetwork, I'll call it, via my friend Adam Aaron's, who wasthe xcro at OCTA and in sort of retirement right now. And in thatworld, being part of that John mcman world opens up a lot of doorsand I went to a Vexa, worked for a guy by the name ofAndy Byron, another phenomenal sales leader. In in my tenure at of EXA, probably the hardest sale of my career, but had a lot of fun inon my twelve month anniversary we got bought by EMC. So being aback into EMC was not what I signed up for and even though I hadto leave shares that were worth a lot of money on the table, Ikind of took a leap of faith and jumping to snowflake Vacu in two thousandand thirteen. The reason I did it is there's a lot of sales leaderswithin the enterprise tech space that have the history of being successful. They're alsoin, pardon my French, assholes, and I made the decision after alot of these companies that came after me. Being part of the John McMahon networkoffered a lot of opportunities for me, and a lot of the opportunities camemy way were either sales leaders that I didn't care for or just Icouldn't get passionate about the tack behind it, and I got introduced by then toa guy by the name of Mike spiser. Mike is a founder insnowflake and event your capitalist. He's also a founder and pure storage in ontheir board as well to this day. In Mike sold me on. Heymake a decision that is people based, in market opportunity based, and that'seffectively why I came to snowflake. I joined snowflake in two thousand and thirteen. Is A director of sales. I took a giant pay cut. Ifigured at this point in my career, five years later, if I projectedout, I figured I would been fired and they would have hired a grayhaired sales leader to kind of be my boss, and I was fortunate enoughto have Bob Muglia, our currency Eo, come in. He came in afterI did and he really bet on me and really pushed me and developedme and I feel so fortunate to be a part of that. That that'san incredible story and particularly well. First of all, I think unfortunately forboth of us, Chris, at this point we are the gray haired peoplethat that are gonna do the replacing. That's right, that's so. Whenyou joined Snowflake, I think it's you know, it was in stealth mode. Don't off was prerevenue, but it was certainly very early. Your oldcustomer. Zero reven zero, not a single customer. So what do youdo? Well, how do you start? How do you get going, andsort of what's like the playbook for the first twelve months when you're inthat stage? I walked in I think the first day I said, HolyShit, what did I just do? And then I said, okay,what are the things that I've learned in my sales care and I think goingback to, you know, my time at e MC. I said,all right, I'm going to hold myself. I had no manager like Mike spiserwas the acting CEO. He was in one day a week. Ihad a bunch of engineers. There was literally I was a sixteen employee here. It's no flake and there were fifteen...

...engineers staring at me and I said, all right, I'm going to hold myself accountable to metrics, and thosemetrics are so important to this day. So I ultimately said I need tohave eight meetings a week. That was my goal, eight customer meetings aweek. And then that's the high order bit. And by the way,every Friday I had to write an email to the entire company summarizing all ofthe meetings I had. So I knew that there was a shameful email comingout if I had zero meetings. So that was kind of my self motivation. And then I had to kind of back into how do I actually goand find customers, because we were self mode. What I did was Iinitially I would go out and try to target the biggest companies in the planet, a General Motors or something like that, and I realized that those companies arenot early adopters, not even close to earlier doctors. And so,after a few conversations with large enterprises, I really focus my time and efforton companies that were cloud friendly, that had cloud native APPs that were morecheap than anything. So I focused on Amazon, really advertises their customers alot. I hired an intern. Between her and I, we would buildlist based on people that were already in aws. I would go to jobboards like indeedcom and look for job postings of atws job postings and then Iwould then go on to Linkedin, build a list from there and find thehighest, you know, the CTO, the CIO of that organization, andsend them an email, and my email was pretty simple. Is Hey,I run sales at a cloud day to warehousing company. We've done something reallyunique where we've built from scratch this sequel day to warehouse where we've separated storage, drink, compute and we natively ingest semi structured data. I'd love fifteenminutes of your time to just tell you what we're up to and see ifyou could give me any advice on how we could actually make the product better. And that was really my it was a soft sale and all of asudden I went from banging my head against a while trying to go after thelarge enterprise to getting inundated with opportunities after spamming thousands of people every week andI was cold calling people, and so I was up to my head andopportunities and that really led me to start building up the organization and gave theinvestors, quite frankly, the will to allow me to hire people. Whenyou joined, did you sign up for a revenue plan? Was it sortof and it was it like a traditional fifty comp or half here commission ison closed business, or was it much more amorphous, because they didn't evenknow what the sale was at that point and it's more like, Chris,will give you twenty percent of whatever you close until we figure out where themachine is, and then once we build the machine, we can set atarget. I think that's the beauty of these venture there's not a lot ofyou know, we can get into a later, but I'm not a hugefan of the venture capital community and there's, I think, a very select ofreally strong vcs, Mike spiser being one of them. And Mike said, look, you're not going to he he set my expectations. WHOA quitefrankly, is you're going to take a fifty percent pay cut for the nexttwo years, by the way. Can you do that now? He saidthe upside is in the equity, so bet on the equity, right,and that's a typical venture capitalist. But I took that bet and I tooka huge pay cut in doing and he said you're going to make your owngoals, right, and you're going to go and make the product better.And so ultimately your job thet customers to use snuff. Like I don't careif they pay, I want them to actually use it and make the productbetter. And that was my high order bit and that's what I focused on. So I found customers and I begged them. It was probably the hardestsale of my career of convincing a customer to put their data in a productthat basically didn't exist. That was really it, and so I gold myselfwith getting customers and about nine months into my tenure we signed up our firstpaying customer, and so there was no commissions. It was a quarterly bonusand I basically made my mbos up and I shared them with the board andthey agreed it. Every quarter, and that's what I would do, andthe mbos would change quarter by quarter based on where we were as a company. It makes sense. And so then the interesting thing about your experiences.First of all, super recent right, like it wasn't twenty years ago.You were the first salesperson a snuff like relatively recently and you've seen this MEDIORCgrowth. So we can dive in and...

...really get really tactical details, whichis awesome. So first nine months you get your first customer. At somepoint you start hiring. How do you figure out? Did you already havea playbook or template for you know how you're going to build you or howmany sales engineers? You know the ratios? You were talking about bedrs to field. What was your game plan there? The first tire I had was,of course, an intern where she helped me build the man generation,because I was my own demand generation machine. And then I needed a sales engineerbecause I was using our V P of product marketing as that sales engineer. So I needed that. And then from there I was getting inundated whereI did not have enough time to actually tell the snowflake story because there wasenough demand that I was generating where I needed more help. So I hiredtwo inside sales ups who are still with us to this day and they bringpromoted to the field a long time ago. And so I hired to the insidesales reups. They started to create more demand, the investor saw it, and so I had to go find the three kind of core foundations ofmy sales organ I hired two guys that had worked for me in previous jobsand then one guy that I had to go find with a help of myrecruiter, Chat Peetz, on helping get the core foundation of the sales team. So I started then and where these three guys field guys. These werequotacay and field guys, sales, sales leaders. They were leaders that tookindividual contributor roles. So I convinced them. It was hard right, but Iconvinced them to bet on the company, on me, on everything, andthat's probably the most important thing that I've learned in this entire process andwhat has enabled me to go from director of sales to chief revenue officer,is recruit people better than you and if you're able to do that, youwill be rewarded absolutely. Recruiting top talent is probably the number one goal ofa senior executive. So you added these three folks. These were sales leaders. where they regionally focused? How did you organize them? Yeah, Imean effectively. Yes, the short answers. Yes, they were reginally focused.I had a guy in the bay area, I had a guy upin Seattle and Seattle and I guy in New York and we kind of justdiving up the country three ways between those three folks and we kind of startedgoing from there. And then as we saw demand in a specific region,we would hire. So the northeast was a hotbed force and this guy,Vince trata, who works for me to this day, is Vince is basedin New York. He was the first sales Rep. we started to seedemand not only in New York but in Boston, and then we so wehired a sales team up in Boston, both in see and a sales rep, and then we hired more people in the bay and so forth and soon. So we would follow demand. I mean it was hey, whereare we seeing leads? Where can we not get to the opportunities? Andthen let's go hire a sales team. And then the demands being created largelyby you guys, right because maybe we've been leaving up on marketing, orbecause there was we were in stealth mode. So there was literally I had thebed our function in we would literally build lists off of job boards,off of aws presentations. I wanted to focus solely on companies that were inthe cloud already and that were early adopters, and you can tell that. Youknow, small companies generally are cheap. They'll do anything. If they likethe technology and they can get it for nothing or next to nothing,they'll do that and those are earliest customers. Add Tech customers, online gaming customerswho had massive data challenges and didn't have a lot of money. Thoseare earliest customers. And so you know, you guys are following demand. Obviouslythat, I mean, one of the things that is probably eminently clear, but we should articulate as obviously you have a great product, because thedemands going to dry up really quickly if a bunch of people are trying thisthing out and not happy with it. So you've got something that's working.You're scaling up the team as your responsibilities grew and his regardless of your title, as your responsibility shifted from being a sales manager to being a cro whatdo you think are the main things that change? What's a different about thequote Unquote Crro job from a regional head of the west coast sales or somethinglike that? I think the biggest challenge that I've seen, even within peoplethat within the organization that I've hired, is there are some folks that youhire that are good from like like. The they say they're the venture capitals. Will say, Hey, there's certain...

...sales leaders that are good from zeroto ten million and then ten to fifty and then fifty to one hundred andso forth and so on. I think the thing that I'd say about itis if you micro manage, if you were a micro manager, you donot have the ability to scale. So, as I said earlier, the keyin my success here at snowflake is a yes, the product is worldclass and that founders are just amazing people, but on top of that it's hiringgreat people and empowering those people to make decisions on their own, helpingthem navigate those problems, and that's ultimately what I do. Even to thisday, for example, I hired a phenomenal leader in Europe. Tebow Sarelliand Tebow was he was part of the original team in Europe. And I'mnot sitting there micromanaging tebow. I'm allowing Tebow to make decisions on where he'sgoing to put people in Europe and how he's going to grow the organization.Now, I will give him guidance and I will help him get the resourceshe needs, but but I'm not saying Tebow, go to this sales called, do this, do that. No, man, you it's your business,you run it. I trust you and you empower those people that youtrust. That's basically what my whole philosophy has been here at Snowflake, andI've been very fortunate to hire great leaders. My North American leader the same thing. So all great leaders. You're articulating the tenants of great management.So for this guy, Te bow, out in Europe, what you needfrom him is one of the things you probably need is for him to tellyou what resources he needs and then you need to give him the goal orthe direction. Here's where we're trying to go. Is that sound right?Yeah, so the high order for us right is John McMahon. By theway, it's a piece of advice I could give to anybody is when Imade the decision to join snowflake, one of the things that I said toMike Spiser, who I think is amazing, I said, Mike, I loveyou to death, I think I'm you're so passionate what we're doing,but there's no one on the board that cares about sales people, and I'mworking for you and the founders, who are engineers. I need a salesleader, like a person like John McMahon on my board and Literally Mike thenext day put John on our board. And so what I'd say about that, and what's key about that, is John has the model and it's aproductivity model and we followed that and that was our revenue builds model and wesaid, all right, our goal is to get to a million dollars inACV growth per wrap. And so that's the model that we kind of builtand that's how we decided on. Okay, I need this much head count.This will generate after six months. We expect twenty five percent turnover andwill generate after a rep has been here six months. They will generate twoone hundred fifty grand in ACV bookings a quarter and that's my that's basically myunit of measure, especially early on, and so that's every region, countrythat we hire sales teams on the leader is held accountable to making their repsproductive. And productive is it was two hundred FIFTYZERO dollars a quarter. We'reat a productivity number that's much higher than that now because we're seeming such growth. And do you factor in the cost? I mean obviously two hundred and fiftygrand a quarter can be de factor and how much it's going to taketo get to two hundred and fifty grand of quarter either in terms of leads, opportunities, bedr support? Is that all part of like the unit economicequation? Here's a rate. Yes, there is a ratio for everybody.So there's for every three field reps, there's one BEDR for every two fieldreps, there's one at sales engineer, and we have ratios. So thenumbers of sales as drive the headcount for the entire company, right, becausethat's all driving the million dollar run right after the ramp period. Correct.Yes, when you think about what's going to make you successful or not successfulin your role, what do you think the biggest determinants are. What I'velearned in meeting some big company folks is, I think a lot of big companyfolks in quite frankly, you know I'm just starting to see it frommy level now, is I never had an assistant. Now I have anassistant. I have a sales operations team that builds my board decks. Iused to have to build my board decks on my own, so you canget used to that. It's like living the life of luxury, if youwill. Write and and I think the thing that I've noticed is when youhire big company people and they don't have...

...those resources available to them, sometimesthey struggle. So from my vantage point it's kind of hilarious. In myviewpoint. I get a lot of recruiters calling me and saying, Hey,we want someone that's built a company from zero to one hundred million dollars inrevenue, and I'm like yeah, that's great, but no offense to you, but you know I've done that and I'm probably don't want that job.And I think what's important for those people to realize is you want my biggestthing is hiring potential over like experience. I think potential and grind it areprobably the most important thing. So I think the thing that you have tobe willing to do at every level at this company or any company, isyou need to get your hands dirty, and a lot of its senior executivesare unwilling to do that. You know, hey, I give this big strategy, but I want a lot of people to execute for me. That'snot the way it is here and even our CEO, Bob Mugley, Ithink that was my biggest concern. When Bob joined, Bob was the presidentof Microsoft, of the Server and tool division of Microsoft. He worked forSteve Bomber, who was the CEO Microsoft, and satching Adela, who is theCEO Microsoft, used to work for Bob and I think the unique qualitythat Bob has is someone who managed Tenzero, Fifteen Tho people. Bob Gets hishands dirty and I think that's the key is he will grind, hewill go out on sales calls, he will go meet with customers, hewill drive product to do stuff, he will get people. He understands theproduct better than anyone at this company. So I think what I'd say isfor the those venture capitals that want to hire great sales leaders, I wouldsay, bet on the future as opposed to, you know, hiring theexperience. I think those people that grind and want that VP is sales job. There's a lot of potential in those people and go find someone like mefive years ago. I think that those are the kind of the key qualitiesof people you know that you're looking for. How do you test for that?One of the things I've noticed IT companies is early stage companies. Oftenthey have guys like you or there's often a couple early stars. The reasonthose early stars are there is because they didn't have a hiring profile, theydidn't have, you know, the scorecard and greenhouse. They were just takinga bet on a few different people and a couple of them are emerged asmassive overachievers, huge grinders. We've got those people here at behaviors. Thehead of account management is, you know, a few years out of school,but this guy will get on a plan to fly anywhere in the worldon a moment's notice. Is His name's Nebile Ebraheim. So we've got thosegrinders. But five years from now I'm going to have a speck and thespeck is going to say I need this much experience and this much experience doingthis and this much experience doing that, and what's going to happen is thatthose kinds of people are going to be screened out of the process because they'regoing to be deemed to not have enough experience, and so some of thatgrinding upside element is going to be lost. How do I find the young grinderson their way up? That's a great question. I think it dependson what job you're hiring them for. I mean, if you're hiring aBEDR, you're looking for qualities in that bed are. So in any giveninterview, I don't care if I'm hiring you know, we just hired tosee a right, I was part of that interview process. If I'm hiringa BDR, and I mean in the BEDR interview, the first question Iask is tell me Your Life Story, tell me where you're from. Tellme that the reasons that you made the decisions you made in terms of thecollege you chose. Tell me what you did while you're at college. Andwhat I'm looking for our people that there's situations that they've actually had to work, had to go grind in their careers. It might be, Hey, theywere an athlete and they overachieved and they did X, Y and Zin there, you know, in their athletic career, or they work.They paid their way through college and then they got their first job and theyout of school. And if you're looking for a field, sales are upwith potential. The thing that I would say, even to this day atSnowflake, the number one thing that I look for is within the last twoyears you need to explain to me in your job you've actually opened up brandnew logos for your company and if you have not done that, if you'vebeen an account manager, you've managed one account. That's not what I'm lookingfor. Ninety nine percent of the time,...

...even to this day, where we'reat from a scale perspective, because we are in hypergrowth mode. Soyou need to find that great and grind and you're looking for that in theirlife experiences. So finding tough situations. I you know, one of thequestions that John McMahon has got me asking candidates is give me the toughest situationyou've ever been in, and I caveat it with you. Can Get makeit personal professional, because sometimes I've asked it is blunt. Just give metough at situation? I've gotten some crazy, crazy responses and sometimes I don't wantthose. So it's give me the talk a situation that you're comfortable talkingto me about, and that's ultimately what I'm looking for. Is, howdid they what is a tough situation? Have they grown up with a silverspoon in their mouth or do they actually know how to grind? Those arethe things I'm looking for. What's the terrible answer to the question? Giveme your toughest situation. I think it's like, Hey, I failed thetest or didn't get a job I wanted or something like that. It's I'mlooking for real life experiences where they've said, hey, I was put in asituation. You know, I just interviewed a woman who explained it tome, a situation that she had a senior leader in the organization her effectivelyharassing her and she handled it unbelievably, and that's a really uncomfortable, terriblesituation for a young woman to be in and she handled it like unbelievably wellas we went through it and I said man, Hey, that's super inappropriatefor that guy to do that and be good for you for the way youhandled it and showed me that she's a pro and she handles it with greatand class, and I think those are the things you're looking for. Makesa lot of sense. Want to get a little bit specific, if you'rewilling to, and just sort of talk a little bit about your sales process. So you, you guys use, if I'm not mistaken, medic andMedpick. So I don't Know Med pick. Walk us through that methodology. Well, so medpick is a variation of medic and the P is, JohnNickman implemented, is paper process and there's an added C on the end.So there's two seas at the end of medic. You know, instead ofjust having champion, it's also competition. So assume that a hundred percent ofyour deals are competitive and if you don't assume that, you're basically wrong.Sales drops put a forecast up and they say hey, this customer soul sourcingSnowflake, and I say, you know, BS, that's not true. Andby the way, every sales call I go on I tell the customerwho our competitors are because I am that confident of our product and the Pis paper process. So paper process, and in a world where we're asSASS company, where we house data. That is painful. We have thetypical customer who's moving, especially a large enterprise who's early in their process andmoving to the cloud. They put a lawyer on it or a procherment team. That basically stifles innovation. I'm amazed at how some of these companies continueto innovate at a large scale because these lawyers are are stalking the s andultimately what they focus on is, hey, we want to be able to sueyou for unlimited amounts of money in the event that you know, youget hacked. WILL GUESS WHY? We're in a world today where everyone getshacked a hundred percent, like, Hey, you know, by the way,the US government gets hacked where you know the Russians just changed our elections, that kind of stuff. So we're not taking unlimited liability. And,by the way, no well runs as company will do that period. Amazondoesn't do that, Microsoft doesn't do that, Google does and do that and snowflakedoesn so the paper process is a pain because you have lawyers that likebasically draw a line and sand say we will not cross that line. SoI'd say that's my number one pain point. But ultimately, the medic sales processis a way that we use our medpick is a way that we usedto qualify the deal very consistently. And then, you know, this pastyear we kind of implemented at my sales kick off in February this past yearwe did a training from a company called Force Management Consulting and we did forcemanagement training which is just, you know,...

...value based selling on top of medicor Medpick, and those are the things that we focus on. Sowe're focused on not just selling a commodity. Hey, snowflake can run queries reallyfast, that's a commodity. What are the kind of the value driversof snowflake that the business users will get, even though it's a technical product?So we try to take a technical product and then show business value init to the customer and make sure that the customer understands. Hey, thisis the success criteria. And, by the way, you, as asales rap need to make sure that the customer is on the same page asyou as on the success criteria. And if the success criteria changes and itchanges in a way that we don't like it, you should pull out ofthat. Proof of concept and being able to pull out of a proof ofconcept. What gives you the courage to do that is pipeline. So itall starts with generating strong pipeline. If you do not have a strong pipeline, you're going to grab hol do it deal, you're going to hug it, you're going to love it and even though the deal from a medic standpoint, doesn't hold up to the qualification and ultimately you're going to fail as asalesperson. So pipeline generations what we focus on, and that's what, tothis day, I hold my sales leadership to is making sure they generate thatand you have metrics around that. And then on the medic side of things, we kind of do opportunity reviews with the customers are with the sales repsat any given time. Thank you for that level of detail. Let's talkabout quotas really quickly. There's a lot of enterprise sellers out there. Tellus about as much details you can give about your complans, like what percentageyou're paying, where the accelerators kick in, things like that always useful information.So I'll just you know I won't give you the exact you know ontarget earnings, but in general when I first started, the first year thatI started hiring sales people, we had no real revenue to speak of.We gave wraps basically eight hundred and FIFTYZERO ACV growth quota. Today we havereps with a million and a half dollar ACV growth quota and you know,we have reps that are killing that. We had a rep that did itseven million dollars in growth on a million a half dollar ACV quote quota.So you can imagine that my sales team is pretty happy on the amount ofmoney they're making. In fact, over eighty percent of our sales team isactually forecasting to be over their quota this year, which is excited. That'sfantast and it's an annual quotas. That right. I don't believe in anythingbut annual quotas. In fact, I interviewed a CEEFOL cannidate. We suggestedwe should go to half your quotas and, no surprise, I was a thumbsdown on that's CFOL can, that you are. You are a functionof being an enterprise sellers. I think it's sort of depends probably on themarket segment. Yeah, I mean you know, I have a friend,a Docu sign who's on you know, there on monthly recurring revenue. That'snot if you want someone to do that, that's not me, right. That'swhat I'll say is I'm focused on large enterprise sound, not just large. I'm mid market to large enterprise, but field sales organizations. That's ultimatelywhat up, you know, my expertise is. And then when I don'thave that muscle built, I go hire leaders in that space and that muscleis for me is a guy by the name of Mark Wendling, who's myvice president of corporate sales. So well, one last question about complaints. Soannual quote or whatever it is, million and a half bucks? Idon't know. It's seventy percent. A million and a half bucks is butis there a it's around a million below. Is there a point at which youdon't pay anything at all? That it's my question. Yeah, ifyou don't close in it, it is there like a break point. Sometimessome folks it's just controversial topic where like passed. If you're under fifty percentattainment of your quota, you don't get anything at all. I'm not afan of that. I'm not that. I mean, look, our salesmotion is you know, a hundred percent of our customers evaluate snowfl like.In fact, you know, after this call you can get on our websiteand sign up for Snowflake via credit card. So a hundred percent of our customersevaluate snowfl like before they buy it. Now, whether it's an about freeevaluation that we control or it's a paid evaluation that they control, thoseare up to them. But ultimately the sales reps and the way that thebiggest difference in Sass versus like where I...

...sold, you know, hardware deviceit at e MC is there's almost immediate gratification. In the hardware world is, Hey, I can go sell a you know, do a proof ofconcept and at the end of that proof of concept I can get a fivemillion dollar deal. Well, with Snowflake, because we're a usage based system,the sales rup has to go and do a land deal first. Hey, let's go find a use case. So let's go do a Twentyzero dealfirst or Fiftyzero deal first, and that customer will get that use case goingand then we'll upsell them into additional use cases. That is our model.That's how we work and it's to the benefit of the customer. We actuallyonly revenue based on usage, so customer actually has to see value and snowflakefor them to use it and for us to ultimately get paid. So oursales team, what I quoted them on, is ACB, bookings and growth.So they have a renewals quota and a bookings quota or growth quota,and so they get one rate for the ACV for the renewal and another ratefor growth, and that's what that's what I have them focused on. Andthen there's and that sense they're both hunters and farmers, because you sell now, but you got to expand and they have a gate to get to theaccelerators, and the gate is they have to open up a minimum of fornew logos in a given year, based on their territory, anywhere from forto eight logos, and giving them love it. Chris, this has beenan amazing conversation. Just a few last questions for you. The main one, as you know, we like to pay it forward, like to figureout who are they. There's two types of pay it forward questions. Oneis who are the people that have influenced you and the names that we shouldknow that have been inspirations and mentors. And the second is, what arethe pieces of contents, what are the books that you've read or the methodologiesthat have transformed or helped you evolve your sales perspective? In my career there'sbeen some pretty key folks on the sales side. I worked for a guythe name of Jim Cavanaugh at EMC. He was a ballbuster and he's nowpresident of Asia Pack for AP Dynamics. I don't know that I could workfor Jim again. I love them to death, but I don't know Icould do that. But he taught me a lot, you know, alot of basic blocking and tackling. I think John McMahon, from a salesleadership perspective, he's really helped. He's been really an advisor to me throughmy entire process here at snowflake of building the Sales Organization and I'm very fortunatethat he's been on our board. So he's amazing, amazing. Mike spiserfrom Sutter Hill again, one of those guys that bet on me in abig way and ultimately, Bob Mouglia, our CEO, who are board,said Hey, go hire a quote unquote, as I said earlier, gray hairedexperienced sales leader and he said no, I'm Chris is my guy, becauselook at the organization that he's built. So those are some of the keyfolks. And then I've been very fortunate to have a recruiter by myside the entire time at snowflake by the name of Chad Pete's. He's apartner over at Sutter Hill. I in fact he was not prior to Iactually introduced him to Sutter Hill. So I will take some credit and suttergetting chat over there. So Chad's been a critical business partner for me.And then there's just you know, it's important for you to network with othersales leaders. So you know, like I said earlier, Adam Aaron's fromMOCHA. He didn't owe me at anything other than being a nice guy andI would always ask him how he would handle a situation. Andy Byron,you know, the guy who runs sales over at cyberreas and now an exboss of mine, and and he again was very kind with his time interms of coaching me and helping me. So I think getting coaching from peersthat sometimes aren't involved within your organization is Super Helpful as well. Perfect anybooks, anything you think we should write? Yeah, so, so, rightnow I'm one of those people that basically trust nobody, and so thisbook caught my eye most recently of everybody lies, and it's a big databook. And ultimately, I didn't know this, there's a thing called Googletrends and you can go onto Google trend and see what's trending and what youfind is the Internet is the ultimate source of truth and you might not tellyour friends what you look at on the Internet, but the Internet knows,in Google knows, which is a little bit scary, but but learning aboutthat. So it's a big day of book about, you know, howpeople lie, what they lie about that kind of stuff. So to methat's probably the most important thing for me...

...right now. Love it. Anylast words, life, Mottos, guiding principles? There's, you know,a young, twenty two year old listening to this right now and you havea chance to shape his or her mind. What are you going to tell Imean I in fact I just you know, I just did a speechto our bed, our team yesterday. Look, I hate entitlement. Firstof all, like if you're a senior executive and you feel entitled to success. If you're twenty two year old who's got and trophies for winning nothing yourwhole life. You have to come and earn everything that you do. Sonothing comes easy. If it does, it's probably too good to be true. Be Humble, and I think that's important for my team now is we'veseen success, and I don't want to be clear. I have no arroganceabout the success I have. I'm on a three month contract every quarter.That's how I view it and I have to live up to my three monthcontract and I have to hit my quota in that and that's that's how Irun my business and that's how I run my life. I do think longterm, but I think be humble, grind yourself, don't expect people todo anything you wouldn't do yourself and, ultimately, don't be an asshole because, look, it's a small world. People will hear about how you treatpeople in the future and although you might be at a good company today,that'll eventually end and you want another good job in the future and people doblind references on this. So be honest, be transparent, don't be an assholeand and go get it. I love it Chris, thanks so muchfor your time. It's been a great pleasure chatting with you. Awesome Sam, thanks for your time. I really appreciate the time. Hey, folks, it's Sam Jacobs. This is SAM's corner. Another fantastic interview with Chrisdegnanfrom snowflake computer and you can hear the passion coming through Chris's Voice. Hesounds like an awesome guy to work with and an inspiring manager and leader.So I love the conversation. One quick tidbit that you can pull out fromChris just enterprise sale. So Chris believes an annual quotas and one and ahalf million dollar quota. Right now it's snowflake and they paid out annually andyou can imagine it's probably like a fifty split and it's probably en x thatone point five million is probably ten times the base salary most enterprise reps andI'm sure it varies, but there's a debate around what's the cadence of thequota and my perspective on it is that it should match the sales cycle,so for U S and be in mid market, probably monthly for us andbe certainly maybe for mid market. That's a sixty ninety s day sale cycle, probably quarterly, and then for longer enterprise sales that are nine to twelvemonths in length. It's twelve months. Also note that Chris is salespeople,the field sales people. They have a ACV growth target, which means essentiallythat they land an account and then they expand it over time, and sothat is how their team is organized. I would also say that the lifelesson that Chris tries to impart is be a grinder. Just go in there, get your hands dirty, do the work and be humble about it,and you'll rise to great heights. So that is your Sam's corner for today. Now we always want to thank our sponsors, so let's make sure thatwe do that. Are Call Your advanced call center software, complete business phoneand contact center, one hundred percent natively integrated into any crm and outreach,a customer engagement platform that helps efficiently and effectively engage prospects to drive more pipelineand close more deals. I'll see you next time and thanks for listening.

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