The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

3: Why Your CFO Shouldn’t Own the Revenue Model w/ Jess Hunt

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

On this episode of the Sales Hacker podcast, we talk with Jessica Hunt, Executive Vice President, GM of North America, & Head of Global Marketing, Sales & Strategy for Axiom.

One two one: three, three O hi everyone and welcome to the SalesHacker podcast on your host Sam Jacobs, Fouder, the New York revenue collective.Before we start a quick thank you to this months. Sales Hanker, podcast,sponsor no nodes. Ai Discovery Platform can understand the meaning context andconnection between any person or company by proactively surfacingopportunities that are highly relevant and personalized in real time. Note iscreating an entirely new paradigm for sales and marking professionals to growhipeline and accelerate revenent felocity vis. It inpodot no dot io forWICD as sales factor to learn more and now on, with the show, welcome everybody to the sales hackerpodcast. It's your host Sam Jacobs, on the founder of the New York revnucollective, I'm so excited today to share the stage with my friend andColligue, and somebody I've known for many many years, just hunt Jessica Huntwho is one of the top onothenors and operators in the city. I originally gotto know jess years ago back at Girso, Ema Group and since then, she's had anincredible career. Most recently, she was executive. Vice President reportingto the CEO at Xm law responsible for North America, business, includingglobal marketing and sale strategy prior to joining Axium, she was sp andgeneral manager, O the life sciences, business at Gersin, Lerman group at Glg,just launched and built three new businesses, professional services, life,science and corporate markets that resulted in over a hundred milliondollars an incremental revenue. She also built and led gealges ditralproducts, datascience and analytic steams she's. An active advocate formental health care policy, she's also a vice president of the board ofDirectors of the national ansfrumental illness in New York. where she focusedon De sticmitation of mental illness. She grew up in Iowa. She received anUndergrad degree from Duke she got a PhD from Yale She's, a very smartperson. She lives in Brooklyn now and welcome to the show Jess so excited tohave you ohsay. I, this is really fun. I'm delighted to be with you toreconnect with you and also be a part of the New York revenue, collective rerotation. We're excited to have you. So, let's start as we historically havedone, and that means three episodes in with your baseball card stat. So, let'sI'm going to just run through to help frame your expertise to everybody. Soyour name, what's your name Jat Hin, and what's your current title and mostrecent title, my most recont Hidl, I was- I was N AVP at Axiam Law. I washead of North American sales and that was head of global marketing and giveus how big is axiom law and what does axm do for those that don't know soaxam it well into the nine figures in revenue. It's a seventeen year oldstartup, it's a marketplace for attorneys for large enterprise. It'ssometimes referred to as in a alternative legal services. Pase it's anovel model for Acquiring Legal Services for big companies- and I don'tknow, we've got it- maybe about four hundred employees, maybe a little morethan that now and for the folks that are listening. Nine figures means overa hundred million dollars in revenue so for those that are struggling to getfrom two millionairr to five millionairer or even up to the twentymark. Just as I has experienced, building companies well north of ahundred million, and then how long have you been in startup, land, jess or youknow, in high gross land? However, you want to define it yeah hig Gross Lik,because I have built businesses off the ground from zero, but I tend to be theperson that comes in and helps once you've got product market fit andit'you're really ready to begin to scale the commercial operation sales, amarketing teams that really grow revenue, so I mostly focus on laterstage venture back company. So let's say I'e been doing that for aboutfourteen year. Fourteen years, that's excellent! So really quickly! You knowwe read. I read in the in the intro that you grew up in Iola, which isamazing, but then you went to Duke you got a PhD at Yale. How did you end upin this role? Give us a little bit of your background and your origin yeah.It's not obvious. I was studying human paliontology, so the evolution ofhumans, N and other primate Tho digging...

...up possils of human ancestors andworking in museum, and I like many people, some people began to realize.Maybe I wasn't good enough to be a scientist, so I finished my graduatedegree and the I went to work on a Pumpkin farm in Ohio for a while and asI was, I reconnected with some friends from school who had started a companyand it was about, I think, four years old when I joined it, was called Gurs.An larman group. I didn't know a thing about business. I had been an academicand I didn't know what a stock was, but I joined in an entry level. You knowrole in a growing startup. I think we were definitely the tens of million. Ithink maybe Sam were already there. What year was a SN or yeah? I was there beginning twothousand and three we were well into the tens of millions jess. We were Ye,probably around thirty, to forty million. I think at the end of a fourwas noith thenar yeah, so we were going and I sod I was INA customer successruland then the CEO at the time who I didn't even know, knew my name took meout for breakfast and asked me to join the Sales Team and I was bewildered andtold him no implying. I think that you know I'm an intellectual and withoutpointing out what a Passhole I sounded like. He eventually talked me in Joiing,this Fald team and I loved it. So I carried a bag and then I built and ransales team and really really love that time in my career and then I became aGM. I Ran, eventally ran marketing and product and learned Hell F, a lot abouttisiness and eventually even built tha data science, Tam Ma personally regroup,but I would call myself an entrepreneurial executive and notnecessarily entrepreneur, but, as I have O my careers progress, I'e stayedreally close to sale, Om Marketing. What do you think that is well, firstof all, at's what I know, but I also think that you know when I was doing mygraduate work. It was quantitative and I think that there's a certain amountof interpersonal skill that comes with sales and if you're, grecarious, you'repersuasive, you can really enjoy a sales career. But if you are a systemsinger, that's kind of how your brain works with numbers with data. It canreally enhance your effectiveness of the leader, and I think that's probablythat you know. If I look for anything, that's transferable to my days as aPalian callogist, I think that's probably what it is, could be a tretch.No, I believe it. I think, to your point. A lot of people say that salesand marketing is both art and science, and when I look at sale, executives andpeople that are up and coming it's often, the lack of organization and thelack of process is oftem. The thing that ends up being theire undoing. Sowhen you think about the last fourteen years, a big chunk of time at Glg, thenyou got to axium and there's another good friend of both of ours. T T thathas worked with you and for you, and has just said you made it atransformational impact on axm over the last couple years, particularly withyour marketing insights. What do you think is the difference between youknow what characterizes success, particularly successful business andthen successful venture back businesses. Yeah, I think, is one of the thingsthat I've learned later on. I think my former or former CEOcrisinal, never group of called us the difference between a good business anda great business. There are lots of good businesses in the world, as youknow, Sam, that shouldn't be venture back businesses and you and I tend towork and probably a lot of people listening into the attend to work inthe dventure back to space, and it's really about sustainable growth, andyou can get lots of subtatable growth from sales and marketing and not just aproduct, that's bilt for scale, and so solving those problems of growth andunderstanding and the way that you solve them deter can determine thedifference between a successful business and a middling business. Ofcourse, visurback businesses have a even more accountability for very highgrowth and that's sort of what I've been working on, especially H. Lastpart of my ind, the most recent part of my career toll us what you do now and Iwould love an example where, to your point about you, know the right salesand marketing strategy being either applied correctly or incorrectly and ineither generating a good but not great...

...oucum versus an excellent outcome. Yeah.I think it's that you need business architecture that contemplated Skale,that all the time, and I would make it astantion as e pattern. I see a lot Ibet you've seen Sam is what you have to be good t at startup is the opposite ofwhat you have to be good at when you're trying to grow the sustainable propit.You know, eventually, profitable business startup have terminal risk TSOmanaging started successfully in the beginning borders on the neglaget. Youhave to actively ignore things. You have to constantly just get the companyto the next level as you begin to grow in mature. You have, to wit, thatframework and while you are still prioritizing constantly in, I sort ofjuggling saying staying, a hot mess doesn't work, and this is usually where,in my Mosreson experience, this is where I come in. You have to continueto prioritize, but you have to mit all the pieces of sales and marketingtogether in a model that is constantly looking for scale and by Skale. Ispecifically mean that the next dollar is cheaper to apquire than the lastulkwow, so diminishing cost of acquisition, which is something I probably I don'tknow if I experienced that very often. So how do you do that? You walked intoaxium? Let's say that it was going great, but let's maybe say that therewas some messy situations going on. What's your strategy for bringing ittogether in some kind of structured organized way? Well, this is, it doesapply to Actine, but it applies to most enterprise startups when they move fromthe stage of like product market fit and then really engineering that Faylthe marketing one might say, machining the Commercial Organization. You arelooking for efficiency and effectiveness, so the two sides of thesame point: the best way to talk about it with teams, is around productivity.So there's some common levers that eventually get used in the insuccessfulenterprise of Ma. First one is specialization all kinds ofspecialization, so you begin to look at your funnel carefully and let's talkabout some of the stuff, that's easy to do in the stuff that most people screwup. So the subf hit's easier to do is you develop SDRs and bdrs? You maydevelop a distinction between hunters and farmers, most startufs, don'tnecessarily start out with that. You look for opportunities for telephonicsales and really push yourself for a place where you need feed field salesand then of the field, sales, the seniority and skill tat. You needyou're looking for enablement opportunities. That would offer morerepeatability in your sales process and then you begin measure things mediately,it's really hard to do in the beginning, but like once you've been around forfour or five years, you should really have a sense of your the different salecycle. So that's is a major lever, of course, and if you can shorten the salecycle, you change your productivity. So you've got like you have your levers inmind and you begin to get a much better picture of your data model, your salesdata model, and you do this every day it becomes a habit. It becomes theoperating framework for sales and marketing. What are the metrics thatyou're to your point about your data model? Are there specific pis or thingsthat you're looking at every single day, to tell you, you know that where truenorth is and if you're moving in the right direction, yeah and they're, justthinkg from the things that are telling you how you're going to do this month,right they're, actually the things that are s showing you, whether you'rbecoming whether you may be finding scale so they're, probably around.First of all, what your customers are paying in a couple different ways, butyou know: What's the first tale with the upsal? How are they actually andthen that translates into what revenue R are you driving her fte or whateveryour sales unit? Is that usually it's your per quotea vary, salesperson andsale cycle is another one. How do you showinwell? Let's see, how did that inthe past? I mean one of the ways Y: U Yo, sort of sale cycle. is you reallycarefully design your territories, territory, optimization sale cycles getlong when territories get diffused. Now,...

I'm over, simplifying, of course,because that not that is not necessarily true. There are some timeswhen you're entering a market where you really want your sales people to Skim.I don't know what term ouse for this San, but you know what I mean wherethey have a big territory and in some context it would be seen at sort of aspray and prey, but another context you may want to Spran pray. You may want togo find your earlier doctors in a method that allows you to reach theearliar doptors faster, find them and close them. That's an unattractivestrategy for in a number of context. You know there are times where youreally want to do that so territory and how you av O, build the territories andapproach the territory. Is this one way to think about Closina, sellcycle,nother parts of closing te sale cycles really hard work? I mean one of thebest ways to close sale cycle is really great sales management. So there'swhere so, you were saying art an side there's where the art comes thin. Ithink TNOT as a theme that keeps emerging time and time again and a goodfriend of mine, Evan Barlett from Zacdok. Always talks about frontlinemanagement is the unheralded less talked about fulkrum and lever in thebusiness that drives productivity, and I don't think we spend enough timefocused on how to develop great frontline managers and what makes agood one and what makes a bad one totally and I'll. Tell you what I don'tthink I've ever done it. I've never been excellent at it. It's not rocketscience, it's about signing a space for it and it can be informal, but thecurriculum around it. Defining what good looks like teaching people how tobecome good and then finding the time and energy and all the other things youhave to do in the day to actually actually get that done. Yeah, but thatI mean Athina. May Me, man, n fact you're nvesting in it, which is youknow, one of the things I've seen from early executives is that we forget toask for enough stuff because we're a little sheepish, sometimes aboutrequiring resources to do our job in one of the big areas where I've seenDPCOF sales early VPIECOF sales fail is by not getting enough enablementresources, not getting enough training resources in place and, as aconsequence, the entire organization is unable to scale effectively and in theright way. I think that's absolutely right. There's two thinks one train ishi find training. I don't know how you feel that th Sam, I find training hard,because I don't always know if I have a handle on what good looks like and whatactually working for me. That's the biggest puzzle in the enablement bucket,but going back to what we were saying about. How do you scale one of thetough and its judgment? It' feel, but one of the tough parts of Scalingisdoing just what you said, which is knowing when it's time to even furtherspecialize, be on the obvious beyond building an inside Dale Team, but goingfurther insane it's time for us to develop a more mature ox team. It'stime for us to develop an and more sophisticated sack. It's time for usand we, I went through this recently, it's time for us to develop a rigorous,sophisticated sales recruiting engin. That is a jacent to the sales team andnot you know, native to the sales team like because at the end of the day youget pass if you're hiring, you know more than thirty forty sales people ina given year probably should have somebody working on that full time, andI always wait too long for that. And then you build a rigorous process warand you start to get some like uniformity and standardization of rolesand that actually helps with the scaling process. So I think your pointis a good one. It's like when to build those adjacencies to the sales function,yeah. I think it's really really difficult to know and I think a lot ofthe people that don't know or the people that are just managing forgrowth, particularly companies way earlier than Xyom the board members iresaying just higher a bunch of sales people and you know, sales peoplewithout infrastructure around them and particularly, as everybody knows me,talk about all the time without any marketing support are just going tofail and then you're going to blow up the culture and then you're not goingto be able to recruit new great people, because everybody's hearing that it's abit of a shit show. So I think infrastructure and enablement is soimportant. One more tactical question...

...for you and then I kind of want to moveon to some other topics. But you mentioned there's a commonmisconception that the CFO should own. As you call is it the revenue model.The resenue data model tell us about how youth particular with someone itsuch a quantitative background, your work, ING, modeling, the results of thebusiness and how that informs. I guess both your personal success in yourtargets, but just how you approach, building up the resenue plan for abusiness. That's doing you know over three hundred million dollars in Reteo.It's a great question because, and I've spent a lot of my career working onthis and I think one of the big mistakes I made that sort of realizedlater was. This is not the CFOs job. I ea your a partner to the CFO and if youknow, depending on the CFO that you get to work with t CFO, maybe a majorcontributor to your commercial data and revenue plan, but it's rearly Hasfal'syour job you've got to own that Di call the data model and- and when I say thedata model, I mean the sales and marketing data model, which includesrevenue, but it doesn't just include revenue. I mean revenue is a big partof your data model. Now I don't think a CFO would describe it like that. That'sokay, because Seeif I was a different job than the head of sale to the headof revenue. Let's call it recently. I was looking at how we should design oursales operations and strategy team, and I called a couple of bigger companiesthat first person I called is THA head of sales, operation and strategy forLinkon, it's a giant team and it includes a big function, called saleannouc and it's not a bad idea to look at these larger companies and how thatfunction eventually turns out because you're building the embryo, as youbegan, to build sales operations, you build your data model, that's theintellectual ancestor of what will eventually be a pretty large piceon crmusually lived there. Sometimes marketing, analytic and operations canlive with sales operations and larger companies than in fact. I think it's areally good thing if it does commonly. So the first thing I would say is thatif Youre head a revenue, the data model is your model. How do you build it?Well, the first thing you do: is you build in the stuff you know or canestimate things like feel cycle things like the you know, the initial ACV orengagement value or subscription cost now most tato models like this isbecause it's focused on revinue, because in its purpose, is deliveringrevenue. It's not focused usually on profitability, we're going to leavethat for finance, but we're really going to look at the the Tedependencies or coralits to revenue, and so then you understand where yourlevers are, and you take a look at it. First of all, it's a great thing to bedeductive here I tend to you know, be kind of scientific method like here'swhat I think it should be here's, my hypothesis. If the following things aretrue, then my hypothesis is true, but if e Bollway things are not true, thenI've got the I've got the model wrong, and so, if we proceed on theseassumptions, we're going to fail, I find that the most helpful way togovern how I grow revenue is to really understand what my lovers are. I meanyou may look at your levers and go look. We can't chage crazy right now. Theinitial price we get from a customer is going to stay the same. So what are theother levels? We can change? You gotta, you know figure out what you can thedials. You can move and move up on some of the dials that you know just to be aone layer, more specific, so revenue average deal size, sale, cycle length,but you're ahead of marketing too. So I'm sure you've got insights on furtherup the funnel dials that you can twist and maneuver what are some of thosethat you're commonly looking at or evaluated right now I have not workedin the very most advanced demand, Gen legen marketing, I would say in factthese things can to get developed too late in many startups. I've certainlybeen those are mistakes that I've made I've always developed marketing toolate. I'm not going to make that litstake next time by the way bymarketing just beclar I mean Demandan marketing that delivers pipeline andyou could define pilane anyway you. What and you can you know, decide wherethe SRS and bdrs live in the marketing...

...in our sales world, but at the end ofthe day, is your marketing delivering a certain amount of needs that are goingto become customers and the levers that marketing has tend to be? Not just. Howmuch are you willing to spend to get those pipelane becase? That's allthat's a dynamic, that's dynamapiece of the model I like well, but which one,how fast and how much time are we willing to spend allowing thoseprospects to raise their hand and say I'm ready or are we just going to youknow? Is it sort of like you know, we're going to meet them they're, goingto interface with our message in some way in in some medium, and then youknow we're not going to date we're just going to ask them to get married. Youknow what I mean like isose, those sort of things and by the way, those thingsare not the most sophisticated, demanden marketing you've ever heard.Those are the basic yeah. I mean, I think, to the point about your success.You seem to be able to articulate it, even if you don't consider yourself anexpert in a way that is that sort of simplifies and clarifies at the sametime so Kudos to you, and I guess I take it from your perspective. I'veseen executive team struggle with. Is they get religion about marketing? Theysay: okay, Great, I get it. We can't close deals without pipeline. We needmarketing to generate pipe line. The next thing they say is: okay. Well, I'mgoing to snap my fingers Sam. Can you help us find? You know a great head ofmarketing and the an says well to your point. Marketing is a message and theamount of time it takes for that message to sort of indoctrinate itselfwithin the host organism, and that takes time- and I can't just spin uppipeline for it to close next month next month was baked six months ago. Ifyou want me to do something about marketing, we can do that, but we'retalking about the second half of the year. At this point exactly I don't seeyet consistently. Sales leaders and marketing leaders who really learningto speak o each other's language. I don't feel like we have had aconsistent besides in some great companies, marriage between sales andmarketing, so that they actually work together. Well, there's a bunch ofdifferent debates. One of them is hey. We want sales and marketing to fightbecause that's a constructive tension within the business there's, the otherpart of it, which is, I feel like marketing, feels a little under the gunand threatened right now, and I think the salls leaders always banging thetable for more leades, better leads and the marketing person. If they're notdoing it. The right way, they're forced to spend time educating the business,often in times where the business doesn't have the patience to listen,and so I think no, I haven't seen it work really really well and I'vefrankly seen some of the best marketing leaders that are my peers specificallysay: Hey. I don't want to report to sales. I don't wanting to maintain avery clear distinction between the functions which can be both a blessingand a curse. So I think it's still. I think that' actually ti it work yeah. Idon't actually think it works, and I know I may be in the minority, and youknow we all have limited and we've only worked it so many companies, but Iactually think, first of all, my most recent head of marketing what had donesales before and she's also highly analytical. I actually wonder ifthere's a setup where at least marketing operations or the demansionpart of marketing actually lives in the same organism as sales or at least partof sales and reports. Up to you, know some commercial leader, maybe it's TaCro and you find another place for the brand marketing person you actuallydeparate the person or people that are working on the overall message of thecompany press, the brand which, by the way, I've learned over time, isincredibly important, and I an earlier my career. I definitely undervaluedbrand something worthy of investment inspicication on. But I wonder if youjust live somewhere else, because although they do it's important thatthey be integrated in some way, the messaging of the brand lives in themessaging and the debangen marketing. Of course, otherwise the differentobjectives, and so recently that's what I've done. We and actually, we actuallyput Mangen and sales more or less in the same organization, refording up tothe same person, which is how it sort...

...of ended up with me, and I wouldn't saythat we nailed it but over time I think that's the only way, you're going toactually end up with an innegrated funel. I think you're dropping a lot ofknowledge right now. Just the last thing I wouldahad is: There might evenbe a world because marketing man that word means everything. It can mean amillion different things, and so I think, first of all, formalizing adefinition of marketing is important, but I also conceal worldware Demangenis not marketing and it's not sales. It's a three step journey, threedeparties yeah! You know I could talk to you as you can tell for probablyhours and hours there's another important part of your journey,particularly in the modern political environment, N, the modern socialenvironment in our society, which is the fact that you are an accomplishedwoman and gender. You know is a fact of life. You know, I guess to what extentyou feel has it played a role in your career. I mean, obviously it's played arole in your life because it's part of who you are but how's it playe to rollin your curren. Specifically, you know you mentioned to me offline. You think.New York City is a better place for diversity, love to hear your thoughtsfor the women that are listening to this, how they can think about modelingtheir career and their choices on your pattern, which is clearly incrediblysuccessful, yeah well, io, I mean maybe I'll be answer that in a coupledifferent paragraphs, I really think New York is a great place, especiallythe tech and start Uf. Seeing is a great place for women and probablyother types of diversity, including different age groups of people indifferent parts of their career, including LGBTQ, including people ofcolor and another diversity. So I actually think- and I know I'm not theonly one I's cu I mean there are w there are nights were like you know,we're having beers and there are a few women in text talking, and I think thisis something that's been, I'm not the first to voice. Now I could be supercynical. Samand say there are just like a lot of consumer companies and lipglass companies and things, and that would be sound, sexis Tan, also, probably true.In New York City. New York has a lot of techninacle services. A lot of digitaland consumer product technology start up, but I really think it's true, andmaybe it's just because what's the old thing about, like I like a town withmore than one kind of Asshole, and I think New York is more than one kind ofAshole, so maybe that's you know, there's some women astole to. I dothink New Yorks a great place that, as you think about as a woman leader andsomeone you know who's, really a Pemi anniare we MIS career. So we might bemy career anyway, and so, when he's approaching the middle of my career Ihave now, I think realize that I have a real responsibility to think aboutgender, probably more than I did earlier in my career, and it has to dowith bringing other people up and I think, there's a natural vigilance. Ihave now in a couple different arenas. First of all, you know it', yourcharismatic person, no matter who you are. You should be vigilant for biasbecause by suck so that's something, I'm naturally just looking for andwhether it's you know an early career person calling women girls in theoffice and just saying I think you mad women there, a any girls working here-and I know I'm a woman, you know- and you like right, so I think that'svigilance that you keep kind of just wearid on your sleeve but Youre and youhelp other people to be vigilant around bias, and sometimes it goes a littletuthes. Sometimes you say: Wait a second we're making this decision aboutthis talented person. We K the same decision. If she were a mat, a man. Youknow yeah, so it's Lago a little beyond correction, but what you're doing isyou're showing other people how to lead and how to look as leaders aredeveloping laters as leaders you're looking for bias, and you just try tomake sure that you're seeking it out and sensitive to it and just doing somecourse correction frankly, I have sometimes is I want there to be moregreat. I want there to be more diversity in the leadership, ranks anddiversity Commun a lot of different things, but but it definitely alsomeans gender. It also means people of Color, but the pool of selection isoften not it'se big enough. So what do...

...you? How do you tackle that? And I feelI we've going to hire our next Pto your next Tfo, and you want that part. YouEn, like well Ma Maywe, get out another woman and we're old enough that we knowwhat it's like to be in a boardroom or executive room or just in a room withleaders and there's like one woman, and I got to tell you as IV, someone whosometimes that one woman it feels like shit and it's angring and I'm someonwith little kids and some people call this the leaky pipeline. It's beenlooked at a lot and it turns out that this leaky pipeline, that is women,seem to be falling out of the Labor Pool in mid career happend ingovernment, in academia, in education, in finance, in business. It happensacross industries and when it's been looked at in depth, a lot of thatvariation can be explained by people starting families. Now, it's not all.Interestingly, it's o all explained by people having family, because womandoes not equal mother and there are lots of parents, not just women whohave kids and decide to step out, and there are lots of parents or take abreak and Therre lets. ofparences, decide to you know, continue and theyfind ways to do that. So there are some structural things that we can work on.Definitely, and I goel ask about it a lot e one thing I can tell you is thatI'm really hypervigual. I think people who have worked with me would say this.I'm hyper vigilant about women who are starting to have kids men to but a lotof women Wi having kidss biological, and you know it sucks to travel whenyou're really pregnant and it's a change of life that when you have ababy, you kind of feel like everybody else's life kept going but mind changeso fundamentally, and so I do things like and by the way. No one did thisfor me and I think the time of my life I felt les supported with the excentralcourse of friends and family. My husband was when I was starting to havekids at work. I purposely take wwomen aside, as you know, they're starting afamily, and I say I want you to come back. I want you to do whatever is bestfor you and your family, but I want you back and we're going to help you and TI done it and it's not easy, and then they go away checkin with them a littlebit but yho'll. Let them stay as long as you possibly can and then, when theycome back, you do things that provide a little more support, so you'reproviding things like a buddy someone who' just come back from eternity leave,maybe the year before you're providing things like understanding of travel orI commonly tell people that the topest part or the only time I my career, thatI felt at at disadvantaged for being a woman I's when I was nursing- and youknow I just heard a story from a friend of she- was pumping on an airplane in amiddle aisle because you had to and she had to do the business trip, and so itjust identifying tha things and by the way they are so powerful when they'redone by men and women. And the Nice thing I see is men taking time off tohave kids and men going to the school play, leaving work to go to theschoolplay and that I know used to be mostly women. I see a big difference,even in my career, I've seen men doing that too so controversial and a I'm asking assomebody that you know. I want to be a good partner for the women that I workwith. How do you balance the business needs, particularly in adventure backsbusiness looking for hypergrowth or is that a Mi full of Shit? Is that abullshit you know console? Were I'm trying to think about like listen? Iwant to be a support ive as possible, but this is capitalism, it's rough andit's for profit and we've got a number to hit this month and this quarter inthis year and hey by the way we spend more money than we make. So if we don'tshow the right trejectory everything changes in the business when we go outto raise more money. So how do I balance those harsh sort of realitieswith my sincere desire to provide as supportive and as ancommodating the workplace as possiblefor people that are making these...

...decisions? Yoa Well, thereare coupleanswers that question. The first is it's a venture back business, it's fullof grown up and in modern society we make time for people to have kids, andso you don't get a past just because your adventure back tos tes. I've heardthat argument many times and I think it's mostly bullshit. If you want tobuild a business in the United States to get lots of advantages with. One ofthe things you have to do is o have to be a good employer and once you startemploying more than the founders you're an employer and you have to play bysome rules, in my opinion, also just a matter of ethics like do the rightthing like you, don't cheat to get ahead as a venture back business, and Iview not being a good employer to a certain degree is Cheati. So that'snumber one. No. Having said that, I know exactly what you mean Tham, I meanwe're all racing ahead. I mean how do you build a cop plan for an adventureback business where Burnrad is so critical and you got people take temleave and they didn't contribute, and I know how that feels. It's hard. It'shard that you know. I've been in the situation where I've got a bunch ofpeople out on on leave at once. It can be crushing. I think there is an honestconversation you can have with people about the choices they make and evensaying to people, it's okay for you to take a break or do a different job fora few years now my advice when people want my personal advice, I usually say:Don't, leave the job fool completely for years, because it's so hard to getback in. It's not impossible if you need to take time take time, but it'sokay to take a step back, and I give the speech about your careers in aladder it's monkey bars and I'm sure I'm not. The one. Whot came up withthat, and I give examples of that and that working in this business contextby the way, like other contexts, this venture back businesses aren't the onlyand ten high sacrifice, employer context and employment context in theworld. There's so military, there's government, there's being a corporatelawyer, there's finance so you're going to have to make sacrifices and yourfamily, including your spouse, will have to make sacrifices, and you haveto kind of sign up for that. I think people in ventureback businessesalready know it, but that's absolutely true. It's such a pleasure chattingwith you so Wev got a little bit of time left and I really reallyappreciate all your insights. Let's get some final thoughts and, let's figureout where else the bread crumb trail N, they leade. So you know just who yourmentorse like when you think about people that have influenced you and youwant to celebrate some people. You know we want to know the names of the peoplethat have helped you along the way who are those people and who are some ofyour favorite few pieceof sales. You know that have helped you along the way.Oh that's great. First of all, I'm a big believer in mentors. I'm constantlyconnecting people on mentary kind of relationship say I don't know if youfeel this way Samn, but as I my career's advanced, the notion of role,models and advisors and mensors, and people whose advice ti take out o kindof blending together, and I find, when I'm seeking wisdom and advise inm,really role models. I look a lot at my pierce that maybe the are people whoare a little ahead of me or maybe even a little behind me. So I think some ofmy best advisors and role models are at someone. You know: Christi Rarden Yooof,the FLATARN SCHOOLS TAT's. Now we work shila, Guladi, atole capital, NancyLeblin, who that crisis text line and just started Laura and I'm naming womengood, do it. Maybe they can bae bane podcast at some point. Yes, the name ofBlocklan is one she's, a coof Mbelo, Michelle Green whos, helping to startthe long term stock exchanges Ar really exciting sounders in New York,especially, I mean hidimester Nancy, Leblin, PRI, Bim, Kate, frusherfavorites, outside of New York, Caniby Anke, Amy Ching. I don't knowpersonally bet' really excited about her new business and investors,especially in New York. I mean Taterina Fak, Linda Rottenberg, Trough EndeavorLizzie, Kline Shana Fisher, and then there are a lote of their emerginggreat tecwriters. I mean one that I...

...love, that I always follow: Iam Pershe,lrates, Jesse Hempols, not wired, but she found it and launched back channeltraight inside SOG teck. I read everything she write so thanks forallowed me to no. That was a Mi note, great women. I very much appreciate it.We've got ta pay homage to them and it's great that you've got that list.So just last thing I'll tell you by the way you've got ta connect with with Lizyoung from rionomy she's part of the New York revenue, collective and she's.I think you guys would really hit it off, and so I hope that the next, Iguess we'll have a happy hour in a couple weeks or next week. I hope youguys a em in each other, so I think we should do a moderated panel on thebiological bases of behavior and women and stem. What do you think I wouldlisten to it? You know I've been rinting. A lot of you know like RedHorrari and you know, like I've been reading a Omn of man like I've, beenreading all about Australapithecus and the origins o God yeah. So I think wecoul have a lot to talk about offline and evolution, because I'm fascinatedby it. I think it's like the most beautiful thing. Thank you so much forparticipating it wous a great pleasure yeah. I will see you soon in person,I'm going to give you back the rest of your Saturday and thank you again forparticipating. We loved having you, oh so I was so much fun thanks for havingme take care by now by everybody. This is Sam Jacobs andthis is Sam's corner. What an incredible interview with Jess Hun youcan really tell when somebody has spent a lot of time in nonsales, relateddisciplines in Jess is a train psychologist and a train haliontologistand her insights on how to build the sales marketing funnel are verypowerful. I think one of the other things that she said, which I hopeeverybody picked up on. She said as she was thinking about what she wanted. Heroperations seemd to look like. She called the head of sales operations andstrategy at Linkedin, and I think- and she said that you know she in her roleat axium- was the embryo of a larger morefully developed Arknissm down theroad. So I think that's a really powerful insight when you're looking atwhere you want to take your company to go in the future, look for companiesthat have been there already and then try to connect with those people thatare in leadership, Rols to understand some wof they're learnings and bestpractices. I also think just as a professional and mentor to Women in theworkforce, Jess is a really powerful leader. If you want to connect with her,you can find your on Linkein and we really think her so much. This has beenSam's corner and this has been the sales hacker podcast. Thank you so muchfor tuning in, and I will see you next time to check out the show, notes, seeupcoming guests and play more episodes from our incredible line. Up of salesleaders visit sales, hackercom podcast. You can also find the salestackingpodcast on itunes or CICAL play. If you enjoyed this episode, please give us ashare on Linkdin, twitter or any other social media platform and finallyspecial thinks again to this months, sponsor at Node Seymore that infodot notot io for sales tacter. Finally, if you want to get in touch with me, findme on twitter, at Sam f Jacobs or on Linon at lentoncom, H, Inslah, Sam, F,Jacobs, I'll, see you next time.

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