The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

34: The Benefit of a Finance Background to Help Company Growth w/ Rob Lopez, SVP of Sales, Justworks

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This week on the Sales Hacker podcast, we interview Rob Lopez, SVP of Sales at Justworks, one of the fastest growing businesses focused on HR including payroll, benefits and the like.

While Rob has a background in finance, he really jumped into the startup world first at Groupon, where he was the GM for their Latin American division. After moving to New York, he became the first sales hire for Justworks. He has helped the company grow to well over $50M in ARR and he walks us through that journey on the show.  

One two one: the three FO everybody welcome to the Sales Hackerpodcast: it's your host, Sam Jacobs, I'm the founder of the New York revenue.Collective we've now got revenue collectives in Denver, Boston andLondon. Can you believe it? I'm also the chief Revenue Officer of behavoxtoday, we've got a great interview with a good friend of mine. ROBLOP has alsoa member of the New York revenue, collective and somebody that his helpedscale. The company just works from zero. He was literally the first sales hiretoo well on the way to a hundred million in Arr and, in the meantime,doing a great job, helping small businesses and growing companies withall of the painful hr things that we don't like to deal with like pay, rolland benefits etce, so rob's a great interview- and I know really well butmeantime we want to thank our sponsors. So the first is air call. Hopefully atthis point you know about ar call, but they are a phone system designed forthe modern sales team they integrate into your CR m. They eliminate dataentry, they provide in call coaching and they give you the bility to add newlines and minutes. So when it's time to scale visit air called Otio, forard ashsales, hacker, that's air called dot, io forward, slash salehacker, to seewhy Uber Dunam, Brad Street pipe drive and thousands of others trust Ar Callefor the most critical sales conversations. Our second sponsor isoutreached, as usual, the estimable owner of sales hacker writ large.That's outreach, TA IO, the leading sales engagement platform, they triplethe productivity of sales teams and empower them to drive, predictable andmeasurable Revenue Growth, and I just got a demo of the new interface and itlooks amazing, a lot of really really powerful technology, especially in theanalytic side, without reach. So you can sort of have a great purview ofwhat's happening across the sales organization and across the SalesDevelopment Organization, specifically so by prioritizing the right activities,they help you scale customer engagement with intelligent automation and theymake your teams your saves teams in your customer facing teams moreeffective, improving vossibility into what really drives results that lastline being. I would assume a reference to analytics so go over to outrach outio Ford, ash sales, tacker that is outreached out io forwarslash saleshacker to see a thousands of customers, including Cloudera glassdoor, Pandoraand Zilo, rely on outreach to deliver higher revenue per sale's rap. We alsowant to think a few of the fans that have been listening so Aaron SmithMessage: Man, Linkedin, Joseph Atkins, Kurel, Melnichenka, allister, lane,Connar Cay, Seatz, Vica, Vagman, Jason, Diamato, Jack Davis. All of those folksare listening and giving feedback. Aron specifically said: What's that Song inthe intro? Is it fish? It's not fish. It's a band called lipstick and it's aband that I happened to be in when I was in my twties. So that's lip Stik ifyou're interested in the music whith playing in the background, but ifyou're not that's okay to for now, let's listen to our interview withRoblopez from just works, everybody! It's the SALESHACKER PODCAST!Welcome to it. It is your friendly neighborhood host Sam Jacobs, as I'msure you know at this point, and today we're really excited to have a goodfriend of mine on the show and a member of the revenue. Collective Rablopez isthe SPP of sales, tat just works, and if you know about fast coring companiesin sast land, then you probably know about just works. Rob Is leading all oftheir new customer acquisition go to market efforts. He joined the companyin two thousand and fourteen and leads a team of about a hundred and fiftypeople across business development, sales revenue operations and selfservice acquisition prior to just works. He served as a GM and managing directorof coupon helping launch new business verticals, I think specifically inLatin America, and will hear about that, and he got a start in finance at Morgan,Stanley and platinum equity and earned his degrees from William and Mary andan MBA from Stanford GSB from the business school at Stanford. So robwelcome to the show. Thank you sim very excited to be here.Well, we're excited to have you so the...

...first thing that we like to do whenwe've got a guest on the show is learn a little bit about sort of who you arein your baseball card, and you know why why we should be listening to you. WhiYou're, credible expert, so your name is Rob Lopez. Give us your title oncemore time. Yes, I'm the scenior, VIC president sales and just works and tellus what is just works. What do what do you guys do, and you know, give us alittle bit about the revenue range of the company just give us an overview ofthe company for those that don't know? Yes, it just works been around forabout six years now the business is a all in one HR providers. Tospecifically, we do hr benefits and payroll for rowing COMPANIS, socompanies as small as two employees up to several hundred employees, and whatessentially we do is we aggregate all of their outsour a AR services, so theycan focus on what they do best, which is you know, handle ou their customers,drun their business and trying to focus on that rather than some of theAncelloran things that are required, which are the day today, like they rolllike benefits, selecting a providers. So we take that all out of their hand,so they can tokes O, but they do best. How do you frame the revenue rangesthat an Arr number that you quote or yeah? So that's more or less what it isso t the business is like tha, fifty hundred million dollar range. So Ijoined the company back in two thousand and fourteen and we were you, know, t e,the thousands and it's been it's been a fun ride. But if really, if you thinkabout our business, it's, although we sell to a smaller business, it's reallyan irprize sale, because this is the one of the largest purchasing decisionsthat a small business owner makes Su. I like to say that it's Ike an enterprisesale to smaller business, because if you take in your account healthinsermans and all the other insurances that IK business will purchase from us,you're actually looking some plants at set a figure or deals. So it's a reallyreally big decision that companies make wow and so, first of all, you know. Ithink I mentioned it in the introduction. But hundred and fiftypeople across all these different functions just give us a sense for sortof the breakout between count, executives and SDRs and what are allthe different roles that you're overseeing yeah. So essentially, I avesee all new customer acquisitions. So one of the businesses there is ourkinxecutive organization, that's about seventy five count, executives,regionally, geographically, focused or everybody's based here in New York, buttheyr FOCUSD ondeferent go so a decent amount of travel sten to the localmarkets. Then we have about forty people in our selves DevelopmentOrganization and then be business development smaller, but that's focusedon channel partnerships or tegic partnerships, and I mean a self serviceacquisition. Sotaris acquisition is a business which actually is reallyinteresting. Enwe did't chat about a little bit later, but early on in thebusiness we found that for the smaller customers we were losing money whenacat executives were closing those deals just to the he revenut that theywere paying us. And so a few years ago we invested in a proctizing the salesprocess, and so, if you're, two three person company, just starting out, youcan go through the self service flow, not even talk to anybody and able toenroll and just works, and it's become a huge, different, ator and competitiveadvantage for us in the space, because no other teos or a proessionalplayeoanizations actually do that. And so it's very very unique in terms ofwhat we do. And then we have a revenue operations team which focuses onanalytics process, improvement, compensation and that's been a criticalfoundation and aspect of US helping to get where we are today. It was actuallylike after i Wen y first accountnt executives. That was the next Higer Imade because I actually used to run sales opsoving Y Offso, a previouscompany, and if you don't have the operational background of foundationand you can't scall it business yeah and how big is the revenue OPS team.Now that seems about ten people: Oh Wow F, an that sits across marketingoperations as well yeah, but still that's a really nice investment inoperational infrastructure. So how did we get here? Walk us throughsort of a little bit of your life story, so you're from the west coast. You grewup in La. How did we end up, and I...

...think you know you went to William andmarry so you're, highly educated and GS t? How did we go from from finance to youknow leading a startup sales team yeah? It's funny soge up an a and mybackground. Like part of my family frow, Mexico, part of my family is like kindof the typical Europemmo and I always really love travel. So I studiedSpanish and spoke in so I always wanted to focus on that, and so, if you bookmark that I wanted to have different, I'm a big believer in having differentexperiences, and so I went growing up in La to moving to Virginia for college.Whiwas like people were turning butter on the corner and inliters for Virginiawas like the complete antithesis of La, but it gave me a very differentperspective of life and how much how important it is to valuelike diversity and different experiences. I then move back to La andworked at platmecity, which, at the time is a small Kiat equity firm. Nowit's a multibillion dollar firm that Ye they heve massive. U portfolio, but wewere doing, was fall isis development, which is essentially cocalline, CFOscbeos, small businesses, an passin bankers. You Nam it and essentially oneof the aspects of that so unique wr. We ere'n escentally selling a product thatwe were selling platnum to buy busiis sthat's rer Ar Rit cut my teeth andwere especially sourcing and analyzing new acquisition opportunities for theFund by then Wantto Morgan Stanley, where I wanted to really gane more of atraining that lie, learn a little bit more about fundamentals, O a salesdistribution and work for some Soermal funs work with some large pension funds,and at that point this is like two thousand and eight. So the hight thatthe financial pricis says you can imagine there are moments where you'dlike go home, and I should you not be like not going in the next day like?Are we going to have a job as the company an exist like eman is goingunder and cementors of mine ID always thought about going back to business,chool and theywere like well shoil dude, if you're going to go back now isprobably the best time to go to business. Chool. All right done so.BASICA, like conquered down and just print out, took the g mats and werevery fortunate to get into a couple like really good schools and then didsome notprofit work in South America and like on a Wim. I was like Oti'llglad O stanfortd see if it works out and you know had some scholarships to someother, really good schools, but ye I got in there and I was like all right.Well, I'm not going to say no to this and think stl there and that reallykind of changed, Ma conjectory in my outlook, and so I took some classes infinanceicon classes and technology, and I would meet a lot of the financepeople and, like some O, really good fends work, ING finance, but Youv madethem and you think through what they were like the type of people they were.And then you meet like the fonders in North Base and we hase things book atone of my classes and I just looke forward in life, and I was like wellwhat I rather hang out with like redays things or like the priate equitymanager, and I erly Alete es things so was like done. But then I want to becareer office and there are Likelo theire, two jobs, hat matr. You gotthework, it's like what are you building and how are you building it? And thenhow are you getting to market right? And I remember her telling Meshes LikeRub: You'R notan engineer, souns Lik, I done so actually e working like to goto Har Git revenue, fuctions of like a growth company, and it was funny at thetime I was talking to a bunch of different businesses and because ofSpanish and that I ended up meeting it along who worked a group on and at thetime the company was just taking off like crazy, and I met the Yo down thereand getting it off of a run. Basically, sales, ops and sales and sales opsenBin Adam. In for a lot on American, so I got in he playnd moved to Santiago. Inever been there before. I think I've been there for like a day and there itgoes. That was essentially like what it was all about. So I spent the nextthree years running around that America flying around this country just doingwhatever you could to kind of get Tho business and grow the business, and wepew that business from when I started...

...without a hundred employees o abouttwothousand employees Oen the course of three years, which is insane experience,and then I found myself in Chicago working for the CO at the timelaunching a new business which is very similar to box. This is indr AndrewMason, Onco, mericl, costy, okay, so I moved back to Chicago for a hot minuteand to the first time my adult life, I like buck furniture. I was Lik livingout of the box and then came a call from a former collie group on whoinvested in just works their reseed state at the time- and I was like dude,I just literally bout furniture. I bought a bed and I got a couch, and thelast thing I want to do is a job o like move jobs, but Isaac who started justwors Commis. We do bly oft for week en is okay, worse Kison. Are you got afree trip tonorrr? So I did that and yo since then the arrest of his history.So it's an amazing story and one of the parts of it. That's amazing, for myperspective, is just you started at the seed stage and the risk profile ofjustworks at that point is radically different than it is today. So do you attribute some sort ofprecognition orpressions? Like did you always know youwere going to get tothis point? What was your thesis on going to such an really stage companyWel? I think a lot of times. If you look at DC, they say right, one out often businesses sixteens not out of ten fail. I think there's a lot of deeriskgame. You can do and you can't devis get down to a hundred percent, but Imhank you can do get maybe like forty percent fifty percent, and I think,there's three componients specifically that I think about one is the marketright. So I think a lot of people are starting companies that are going afterreally small markets, like they think it's a ten billion dollar marget. Butin reality, when you go back to the onion, it's like a ten like a hundredmillion dollar Tan and- and I think that there's just an education dapthere in terms of what people need to do there. So when I saw the marketyou're looking at there's five six million small businesses in the US andthe process was broken like if you have ever used an ATP or you some of thesecompanies they're very monolistic, I mean they're great. We have a lot ofrespect for our etitors, but just the way they speak to customers is verydifferent than the way you need to speak to customers today, and we talk alot about like there's a this consumerization of the nrise that'shappening, and I really bought into that and n. The second thing was theinvestors like, I knew some inesters personally, they kind of indicated thatas long as we bilt like e Boty, strong product, that you know they would backus and the last one is the the founder like. I think it wo working at a highgrow technology company, the company Nees to be product line, and I thinkthat the founder there's a lot of people out there. That know nothingagainst kind of people ar penty starting companies, but there'ssomething to be said for having had previous leadership experiences and theguys wh started. Just works had Beenar Abazon cut his teeth. Building paymentsystems had also had an experience in the army intelligence and hadpreviously sold a company and really had done some pretty remarkable things,and this was his opportunity to build something massive. So I thought that ifyou could put a great product around this industry, you can build somethingpretty massive and they had started to. I think a lot of engineers startedproduct and it's like build it and they will come and then, after having aproduct, an mar get people realize boshit like they do not come and youneed to like sell the product and that's kind of where I came in. We'vebeen really much off to the races ever since. Were you competing with benefitswhen you join just works, or did that happen like at the same time or justout thexat same time, so I joined jest works and then, six months later theyraised like the lorgist series. A and history is kind of insane probably lost. Ninety nine out of every hundred dealsbenefits at the time, because everyone was like wait, a minute, they're free.We have to pay you like. Why would we ever use just rex like senifits is free,and I think it's like my mom or like what it is. But it's like nothing goodin life is free right and it turned out that it was very true as enefits andthey were doing some things that...

...probably they shouldn't have done sonow. We like E, actually never compete with them. We don't we don't comeacross Hem. Very often, I think just works as a company really built onvalues, and I think when you're you're trying to scale and build a company,that's really important right, like you need to be a front in the sales process.You need to be honest and, like there's Shit, that quite trankling ourselvesprocess that you almost like. Don't you don't want to like mention too earlybecause it can be challenging, but at the end of the day the Quet, the wold,we always teach it. It's not a question of if it's a question of on, becauseit's a long term relationship that we're getting into so we might lose adeal two three times before we run the deal, but we will win the deal and likethat's kind of the mental psyche and the focus that we really try to instillin our sales process and in our train. We bring people on board because we'veseen it time and time again like deal we'd lost two three four years ago andnow coming on board and they stay with us. I mean our life and value just dueto the nature of what we sell. It's like. I always talk about. We don'tcell screen, Chir software right, nothing against him. We use them an Y,a we don't tell pens like. I think it's great, but you know it's fentures off,Screcho soffor doesn't doesn't work like life will go on like you will beokay if your employees don't get paid like that, shit is real right and ifyou go to the doctor- and they don't have your benefits on file like that-is life and that it's real, and so we really try to like instill that empathyin that emotional buying process and because is a really really importantdecision for Business Inger, tomat, and that goes through and through the DNAfrom the values. From the way we talked about sales, which I don't really thinkof like sales, an sale, I think of it is like an advisor relationship and wetalk a lot about being a trusted advisor to these companies througheducating them without their businesses, and that's really how we try to createthe value proposition on the sale side of jess rocks. I love it and as a free plug, I am ajust works customer and I can attest to the enterprise for small business partbecause man, it's it's a pain in the ass signing up for this stuff. I meanthere's a lot of different forms: Aso, not it's not yeah, Statin Andremulationhave cris xpenentially over the last ten twenty years. You guys did a reallynice job and every interaction I have with a company is very pleasant and weget paid on time over here. BEHAV Fux. So thank you for that. So, were you the first salespersonthere I was, I joined as the first salesperson and at the same time had asail. So I was the head of sales of one. So I kind of like when I went fromrunning like an a hundred and fifty person business in Latin America, likea sixty million dollar Pinor to being a one man shop tre. It was a tough killto sallow and, like a huge like you know, cop change and all that kind ofstuff. But I really wanted to do something very wron on early stage,because the gend of the day I Lov, building things like that's what I loveabout coupon, and I think that if you work in this world, you really have tolove the building axpest the tangible aspect of building something meaningfuland like it's all about the people, you know, and I think that from day onethat's and you quite frankly, what is it? I think I was doing the matter ofthe day, four of the six sales people that I hired at o thousand and fourteenor stoons. So I'm really proud of that and they're all like doing great thingsand running teams or doing other aspects things to company. What werethe big milestones? You know: you're dropped in massive culture shock toyour point of you know, going from running a hundred and fifty people tobeing the sole person and you've got a million different things that you couldpossibly do. How did you start to prioritize? And what did you do firstand what were the set of tasks that you did to get this sort of bolder rollingdown the hill yeah? Well, one of the things I initially did was before. Ieven took the job and I think a lot of people wint do this is that I asked thetolp to customers. I I'm oant to to talk to customers. I wanted to learnabout. Why do they buy just works? How were they using it? And so that's kindof where I started. Also when I, when I did it, I also read the s an so Chinais a competitor of ours. Like I read...

...their s, one, I read all the s ones ofall the companies the TN CAS, attend toreally, understand the industry onthe business, and then I got on the phone. You know we had some enmimit inDownleag Flo so made sure I was the one talking to everybody started like goingthrough my networks. WHOP can I who do? I know that's like that. I couldpotentially transition over because if you study t e the business life cycle-and you go back to kind of like the innovator model, like you, if yourinnovators, you have your girly doptors your cast. Followers like we wereselling them to the enovate right, because we were selling essentially aproduct that was priced at seventy doar, sixty seventy doar per person promonthwhen our competitive for selling tree cots right. So we really had to focuson that innovator persona and then somebody who believed that reallywanted to support, like the NEWYARKICO system, really wantod to support smallbusiness and really wanted to believe that they could be part of the productdevelopmente process, which we really allowed them to do. And it's like lookDif. You move forward to thus like I can't tell you to be Han the bestproduct in market today, but I'll tell you that we will ind really kind ofselling the dream and like backing up that dream, and so a lot of thosecustomers. We signed up with the early days they're still customers today,which you know I'm really proud of, and some of them actually one of them justthe other day, justtrays, like their series B of like a twenty thirtymillion bucks and cend theme an is like Hey. We really appreciate Your Businessand it's always like hey. It's Ramarkable that, like we're so proud tobe one of you, eally Testimis, and so that kind of stuff can Beis it's likethe people, it's al about the people on the customers. What are the sequencesif you look back at this path from zero to somewhere north of fifteen? Lessthan a hundred? Are there major milestones that that you can point tothat ere sort of inflection points in the curve? So I think that hiring thatinitial team was huge. Our first partnership. Health in terms, is a bigcomponent of our product and being able to offer smaller business small growingbusinesses, enterprise like benefits right, so Li Google, like benefits forthe ten person company. They don't have time to deal with putting that together,and so that's what we're all about. So we did our first healthingtementspartnership at the end of two thusand and fourteen began two thusand andfifteen te mated another one at the end of two thousand and fifteen, an thoseare Nacolat conflection points in our business, where our girth kind of wentfrom three foreks and really just took off. I think a lot of startupps an alot of it S. grose company, is the biggest error they make is caling toofast to quickly. I saw it first Handin Grep on and I think one of the bigthings is you. You raise ten million bucks boome. I want to go to fivemarkets, I want to get ten markets and then, since then, I sing about twentycompanies. Do that and like now, you don't know them and neverbody knowsthat, because they don't exists, and so I think it's like truly like scalingbet fore. You have that POC market fit, and so we really tried to refine andbuild. Our processes of New York is a largest city in the country, the one ofthe largest cities in the world, and we really focused here to refine oursystems. Wefind our process for fing our good to market and until we wereready, which was efectly two years later, we didn't focus a team on anycity outside in New York. So we spent like Yeo thosand fourteen w ThoesnandIfteen, an move, two thusand and sixteen focused on New York and thenthe next inflection point in our business was when we started focusingteams on other markets or two thousand and sixteen I fopas on DC and then wthousand and seventeen. We kind of grew that even more foot teams on Texas,laning and Boston and now we're kind of really randing that up with teams focuson Atlanta and a few other barkets. So that for me, that those are some of thereally really big inflection points for us and and now we're investing a lot ofpartner, shape. T channel partnerships which has been another one, is thegeographic territory allocation because, because you're sending people down tothose markets, is it a legal or state regulation thing? Does it need to begiobased or Ortalot about this? Because some of mour competitors do vertically?But when you think about the complains, nuances and the tax codes and thehealth insharance dynamics in some of these different markets, this is aunique toour business. But after studying these aspects like it had toBgo- and we made it bed on it- and I believe it's been the right bed, so itreally has to do with the local state...

...regulations, because, if you're inaccounters hat getting focus on Ew York, it's very different than somebodyfocusd on Texas, because Texas has completely different employment, Lansthey've, completely different migulations. They have different health,ind trens providers that are dominant and competitive, and so for us, that'slike the really important component of our go to Markas strategy. Yeah, THAT'SINTERESTING! So the team is grown. I mean again just to make the comment onemore time. It's very rare that somebody like joins as the first sales personand then can make it all the distance, at least as far as you've made it sofar, which is you know most of the way towards a hundred million. What do youattribute that success to are ther specific skills that you acquired along?The way, how do you think about that narrative, because because it is soexceptional, yeah O, it's really tough and intulltransparency, and I definitely like it wasn't. Alway like there was I d, I hada boss at one point, and so that happened. It didn't work out, and so Ithink that it's really like just our business is so complicated in Ameek andaldeonset is really understanding like e customer buying process and if Rras like ramp takes a while at justworks. It really does, and I think that for me, the biggestkind of differentiator, why I think kind of it's Binnin I've been able todo this. I've also run large teams before I've been a part of that processat another company, and so I think what you see is rare is kind of joining acompany as early asjust works was, and I think that that really an understand,becauseomwere buying process, the person of thei customers and qibranklylike starch with the people right like the culture. It's very interesting,there's so many great products out there, but just because you have thebest prousm en you're, going to win right. It's creating a culture and awinning environment that really differenti to makes people want to workwith you. Mak People want to work for you and I gut e Adent without my team,and I think that we invested in probably people that were a little bitmore senior than you would normally hire at our stage. But it's worked out greatly for us andyou know over half of our management directors they're internally promoted,and I think that that unique aspect of our industry and that competitiveknowledge has made it. So when people come here generally like they want tosay we're not perfect and people do the just works, but it's trying to build aculture around thit and I think that has been a big differentat or kind ofwhy yea I've been successful here. One of the big initiatives that we weretalking about is this notion of the justworks library. So what is that walkus through what that means and how it applies to your business. Yeah, it'spretty crazy, so we, our customers, grow over time like we have a prettystrong kind of net and Morargos, and so one of the things I was thinking aboutis, like you know, in this day and age, and everybody talks about like menimageneration, Wenin, O hatenation hat setaaround, you want progression, butat the same time you also wanted to make sense for your business. And so acouple years ago I was chatting with one of the guys on a REVAN operationsteam and I like Wlhow, can we build a progression plan that makes sense, andso what we thought of was you know to go to the library, there's a bunch ofbooks, and we have this thing that we built out internally, which gives an aeevery deal they've ever closed over time and like Neda Brus met of turnlike what is that business doing in revenue and than Arr, so Neta gors outof Turm, and so I thought of this idea about like what about. If you hit toFrent ar mise tones, you could get competition increases, you can getraises. You can get title changes and I'm a big believer in the lisingincentives and so the company benefits. Then why shouldn't be benefit theyactually the people who brought that business on thethe person who knowisprobably Innerto that relationship you know the best. The fifty percent oftheir business comes from our fools and so that's kind of what weve done, andso, once a month we set up the library...

...when we do revenue and it's a pretty Ifront of the process because everybody like dreams it. It goes to thenireleadership team because so os the company and it's like when people hitnew milestones, they get like a raise. They get a title change and it'streated this culture of like I know what the next level is right and like.I know what I'm Aneu for, and they always people like in their mind. Theyknow kind of what they need to hit when they, the next level UND to Yure gloasdriving for something, and so it's created that, like culture, dancement,culture o progression, which I think has been a real benefit for us and isincrease and how puts pretension Overalltiv that the origanzation? Whydo you call it a library because it's a book in a bunch of spreadsheets, so Iwas like all right: Well, just books and sprendcin tol. If you can go to alibrary and like open up a book, you could see all the et like all the AESand where they rank in terms of their net ar ar over time, and so it justcame up with the Guswork Library, although there are no physical books.So it's like actually stoto reference to the first library at Alexandria. So so, if you hit the milestone, there'sno qualitative review. You know you could be any kind of personality. Imean I'm assuming you're going to fire the people that aren't aligned withyour values. But basically, is there a qualitative or subjective review of theminute that you had a specific cumulative ar milestone get over today?It's just based on err because to your point, Bu, those other things weactually like we manage out and to today we haven't had the situationwhere you know somebody who is an asshole. It's he. You know senior a or likesotegic a secial, but it's a good point and it's actually something that we'vebeen talking about over the last couple months at certain of the bigger milesdonos like putting in a Qualitatov Revieke, where something like apresentation or skills modules, more complicated deals, because you do getaddition of things like at the different levels, and so, but it'ssomething that we're thinking about ar thinking about the Min. How many levelsare there? So there are ar about six levels today and does that include strlevels to or do they have their own Le Strs on a different system so thereon?They have St Level one level to senior Est. SCEN recall him. SDA So seen sellsa OM associates so level one level to senior SDA and then once you hit acertain threshold, you can graduate for the sales associate program and thesalls associate program is a tree form of training program. Arming you up tobe an a on average. It takes twelve to eighteen months to go through thatprogram. We started in two thousand and fifteen Awev since had over thirtypeople graduate through the sales development program actually hin. Fortypercent of our es roughly came from Oursales Development Program andthey've actually done thirty. They do thirty percent more on average than anexternal hire with sales experience it just kind of remarkable la when youactually think about it and these folks, most of them don't have any salesexperience, and so you a you, hiring people right out of right out of school,either ride out of school or a few years out and o. We do hirhe sonexperience folks as well, so they come in at senior Sta. but it's been a hugegame changer for us, and I think the thing here we have the organizationnumber one to create opportunity for the company, so qualified Pilane butnumber two its great opportunity for the reps right and it's very tangible.It's very newmeric if you get out you're able to like graduate itselfAssociate Program. However, if you don't grant you tomselvs prosocourprogram, it is anooa upper OUP program. Presently, so that's I mean that'sanother pieace as well, so once wou get those through, though I mean it'sremarkable, some of the folks that had graduated there, a lot of our topeperforming ause today, wow and they've. Also like there's this intangible thingWen these extramality benefits you don't think about like they're muchmore bot into the company right, like Tan, understand the culture theyunderstand the values like if somebudy calls them o offering Om like ten Tmrlike it's theyre, really focused on it, because we provide a great platform forthem and they'. Given us a lot, which...

...is you know why we really want to makesure that that they're happy and theyre proing and progressing in their farerswhen you're interviewing people or when you're looking at the qualities orattributes of some of the people that really stand out the top performingraps? What are the things that you're seeing that they do differently versuseverybody else? I think the main thing for us it'saround this thera big piece of intellectual curiosity. For us I meanthere's, obviously the hard work and I think, generally that's a prettycommont answer, but for rest of this, like intellectual curiosity and notwanting to give up. So I talke a lot about during hadjuster scales process,you're going to run into a wall like it's Gointo happen like there's goingto be no black and so that the people who are most successful here are theones who can think creatively outside f the box and either are they going to goover the wall Ar Goingto go around the wall? Are they going to like touchto meall like? How are they going to like get across this Roald Block or thiswall that this just block up e sales process an? Can they think they createdsolutions for this business owner for just work to make sense for them andthat to me, Ha's been a huge competitiv to the people who really exs out andthe ones who read up on local knowledge and really understand like. What's whatabout our business and those people are the ones who really really excil you'vebeen making and I've always champions sort of really interesting investmentsboth to stimulate the culture like presidents, club and sort of stuff likethat, but you've also made some some investments in sort of training anddevelopment of the team, and one of them is the mindfulness investment.Tell us a little bit about that, because that's really interesting yeah,it's very unique in I'm, really excit's. I A little bit like Hav, Takcontroversial, because I didn't. I never heard of anybody doing it, butone of the women in our team amber ss van or Shou Teti accounts program for awhile and tubed oer to to run our Trainin enablement program and she'slike been doing a nominal job and over the summer we were talking a lot about.If sales is it's very stressful, you know it's pretty intense for ourbusiness, for example, like forty percent of our business gets closed infinal months of the year, so it's pretty seasonable amontian nature, andI was we were thinking through. How do we like sent Saleis? Also mental rightlike to the SUFF limeting beliefs? You have and you get in your head. I wasreading some articles also around like Sports D. for example, Major LeagueBaseball back in the s mental conditioning didn't exist, eitheristhis Guy Kenn Revisat, who champion mental conditioning and used the coachFulliton and actually helpworkd the cubs, and now I think, all, but threeteams in Major League Baseball have full time andto, conditioning coacheson staff, and so I was like thinking more and more about this, and we weretalking about it and we were like what, if we like, did something about thisright like the mental side of sales? And how do you think through theproblems? How do you manage trash? How do you think through mindfulness and-and so we found this guy as actually like a licensed therapist like a family,Han marriage therapist, and he also does a lot of business coaching. So hewasn't like extremely he'ssentially had that that business knowledge and thatbusiness know how and we've been working with them we're about. Halfwayto the program, the classes are Tuse Peop Lis tribe people are reallyexcited about Er. It's it's talking about that softer side of sale. Thatpeople don't really talk about a lot and acknowledging it's Likhey. Your jobis tressful, like sales people AE pretty much every company in know ourcompany, probably the hardest job at those companies, you're being told nomore than yes, it's tough. You got to pick yourself up a lot like, and Ithink that for us it was a great investment in the organization to helppeople think through those challenges and think through that stress, and howdo you manage it? How do you Ben Mindful about it? How do youacknowledge it and how do you kind of pick yourself up and work through it, ath fevax en beay song thus far, and I think it's something that I'm not a lotof people are talking o about, but that more need to be talking about give usone or two tactics for managing stress that you've gleaned from thismindfulness training. Yes, it's interesting, I think living in New YorkCity, so I've lived in a lot of places,...

...but in New York City it's like taxisand horns and humking, and it's just a bad morning on the bus or the subway.Somebody shows you can looke ruin your day right and it's taking five minutes,even if it's only five minutes to like think through and like be present aboutwhere you are and what you're doing, and just like on your walk to work liketaking the look around you like looking at the architecture appreciating likewhat you have and really like, being positive and thinking through thosethose moments same thing with like a close deal right, it's like or I lose adeal like you know, losing a deal like that soct, but like taking a moment andlike really being mindful about all right. So why did that happen? What canI do differently? What can I do better and also like being thankful andgrateful for like the stuff that you do have and trying to like put a positivelike being in a positive mental state around managing it and maning thatstress, because a lot of times people were raising so much today, there's somany gadgets, and so many distractions and you justpe a lot of people justdon't take time to just be present and be mindful about their day to day andkind of like what they actually do have. So it's been pretty interesting, likepretty powerful like bringing it like froid and some of the like old ancientphilosophers around this and ten commitment hasn't been that crazy right.It's Ak an hour and a half every two weeks, so it's not crazy and I thinkit's been really powerful. The granded, not everybody we made an optional likeit, was very conscious decesion to make an OPTIONCL, because we I more forcedit upon people but for the people who are going at these initial feetbacksbeen really positive and they're getting a lot out of it. What's thisguy's name, let's give them some more business, yeah, name's, lar torrent andhe actually used to live in New York. He lives in Charleson, South Carolina,and so we fly him up Oer a couple weeks and he also does one on one sessionswith the team. So it's not only the mindfulness training, but it thoughtlike do someone on one sessions as well and, like you know, obviously, allthat's a confidential like not company doesn'tknow, anything apout it, butit's didn' have a new, an an outlet where people can share things with himthat you know theyre Deminin be comfortable sharing with their managerright, and I think that that's something that is really important andit just gives people like another outlet, because it really is mentalright. There skills around performance, but it's also, if you're not in theright, like mental state you're not going to perform. Much is why you seethis increase the increase utilization of it and professional sports, even inbusiness as well like coaches and what have you. It makes a lot of sense, andI love the initiative moving and switching gears. A little bit to justsome tactics and some numbers and some dashboards, maybe that you're usingwhat are the sort of top two or three Kpis, that your obviously closedbusiness is one of them. But if you're thinking about before the business isclosed, what are the numbers that you're looking at that you ly on tosort of Ive your management of the team? For sure I mean the biggest one for usat least on the eight side of the game? Is We focus a lot on selfsourceopportunities? So we have a lot of different demand channel, so we have inBownd Marketing Tea Demandgen that we generate the rest of the msuoadvertising. We have our salves development organization just creatingsqas, but I think for the really top performing folks like sebsourceopportunities, is the biggest indicator of like whether or not you're going tobe successful. Because that's what you can control right. I think that youknow when you fully rely. Inm In bounty for Therelin or of Yeman Channel Hesessentially could be in a situation where it that diminsionalements dryyou're saying in a really tough place, and so we really tried to still likelook get to your try to get to your number using yourself, souriceopportunities and anything beyond that. If you can get in and bound, if you geta sells a bom and me like great, that's great, and we really really have triedto push that as much as possible. So that's a really really big one for us.We also think a lot about you know these age of our opportunities, and sobecause just works is like there's his I like to call them per see:switching cost like a lot of times. The last thing companies want to takethrough, but it's one of these things where you at the age of pipeline andhow much is that typeline aging over...

...time we rolled out tableau recently,which is like change the game for us. So we have a central datawarehouse.What you call I the Ouse, which we plug all of our data into fom phone systemsales. Forse, you name it and then so we basically will query that takeawarehouse, so anybody can ous anybody can disiqel an the Ron peries on it,and then we use tablo to visualize it a so. Each manager can basically dig intoAnykpi they ever want, and it's really change again like helping managersireally, giving them empowering them with the right data, an decisions solike run their business and they can answer any question they want so likein thisis it how many companies have been contacted and like what's theaverage like apersion rate and this it at this size in this industry whate arethe customers we signed up for customer references et CEA, and so that has beena litl really powerful too. For us wow, it's really helpful when you so we'regetting sort of the end of our time together. So we ob thanks so much, buta couple ast questions. One is you mentioned tableau? What else is in yourtext, tack? What sort of the sweit or the arsenal of tools that your teamsare using to go to market? I mean tit sales forest traditional we use.Despite the screenchair software comment, Lik we do like Za, so s in isgood, so those are kind of tycphical ones. wher. You sells oft sor, O bigfans of that some of the the ones probably that aren' just sypical orthings like Tabio. It's not really like thesilia sales to as much zominso isactually being great for US I'e the most accurate database that we've beenable to find that people can like that, actually, as accurate information. Alsobeyond that, doesnt really go. Take e good name to. If we looked at some ofthe intelligent callcoaching stoftwer, we haven't pulled the Sruger on a yet,but some of the we looked at it about a year and a half ago, but it just thetechnology. Wasn't there for us yet, and so we we sometimes earlier on, belike Bot companies that were a little bit earlier stage and then the productkind of craps out so we're kind of big buy. We want to wait the do to the sizeof our team. We can't roll something out and have it not work because, likethe credibility factor is just not great, so we made a test everything forat least threy days now prior to roll get out, and if we don't feel reallygood about it, then we just crapit yeah, but in Gea Idis call coaching you meanlike chorus or exactly yeah, exactly, let's pay it forward a little bit whoyou know if you're thinking about people that have influenced you orpeople that you look up to that are other Cros. ORVPCOF sales walk usthrough who we should be aware of yeah sure so there's this Guy CarlosTelatori, who has been super helpful. Just generally he's great. He actuallywas this Corma Zero Mongo DB. He actually is the CEO variou security.Now there's a Guy Jeff William and who has been phenomenal. He actually usedto run a bunch of CELS res, like IPO, two companies like never misseo quota,the guy who's. Just you like to meet him and it's like he drank twenty fivecoffees in the morning or like dat other stuff in the morning you're justlike. Oh, my God, this I just Wantto, hang at with this guy, and so he helpdtake fireeye public he's a operating partner at being captal. Aventurershe's really really smart, really good. Guy Somebody, you might know, youobviously know fried mather thes fantastic lot of insights and valuethere. Wendy surges, Ofer, yeah, seges great, some more informal ment towardget John Bos. He was a former president n IELSON and Joe Peterson. He was aprofessor of Stanford as a chairman of Jef, Blu Mark Leslie, Andy Rack Cliff.This are some of the people that kind of have given me some really reallygaluable advice. Heror the years that has been fantastic, Yumat Andy atStanford must have been yeah exactly so he was actually aprofessor there. He was the professor of Raning, this company, a liningstartup Tokat worker, which is all about coduct mermets. But how do youknow when you have it hat you? No don't and that's wher. We tastthing kid liketo see you hof netflex come by back ton. This was like this is a while ago, soNetflix was acting, but nobody actually was using it and Marka lesses. Alsohuman sols class, there called basically scaling, Salles or Git is aftmebu and he taught that he started.

Darretos software and Wow Rey ta he'sthe one who invented the sales learning Fer, which is this academic idea aroundsales and so many organization skall a Shal Se befor. They actually haveproduct market fit, and so you hire twenty sales people, because the poorand the investors say hey hihe sales people and then you hire shose peopleand then Yeu, Produc, tings and a shit. And then you have to lay everybody offand Soit's trying to scale that curv prior before you actually have to fit,and I think a lot of companies make that air. I see it all the time yeah,absolutely they sure do rob. This has been amazing. Are you guys, hiring andor if people want to get in touch with you a? Is that okay and be what's thepreferred mechanism if they want to reach out if they like what they heardor if maybe they want to talk about a job at just works yeah for sure we aredefinitely hiring wou're, hiring an all roles or kin executives, Asas,felloment, R, achually looking for some great says leadership, O managers anddirectors as well. You know easiest what o emails me is just Robbert at JusWorkscom, so Robert at CISWORKSCOM. What was heother question? That's itthat was the only pie yeah, but yeah we're definitely going to hire people.I think that it's a super exciting time just for New York, inthe country andjust like the some really awesome business ideas are being started. So Ithink it's a great way to build a career and really also have some funmeeting some great people, while doing the wonderful, well rob thanks. So muchfor participating and we'll talk to you soon great, thank so much everybody. This is Sam's corner a greatinterview with Rob Lopez. You notice, like Dan Cook, from Lucid, chart abackground and finance platinum equity. If you don't know who they are, is oneof the biggest and ther' specifically middle market, an lower metal market,private quity firms, I'm sure they have all different strategies, but we workwith them when I was at Axeelle, so a background in finance and then movinginto start up land and going to group on and then being the very first saleshire, it's very, very rare that somebody can drop in as the first saleshigher and have the support of a founder all the way through to thehundred million mark. So it's a fantastic that rob's been able to dothat and whether a bunch of different storms along the way and they put in alot of really really great programs. They invest a lot in development. Andso one of the things that rob mentioned is this thing called the justwirklibrary which is sort of a tome. It's a spreadsheet. I guess of the CumulativeArr the accumulative contribution of all of the people on the sales team,and they know that when it circulated that people that achieve certainmilestones immediately get compensation, increases and immediately get differenttypes of responsibilitie. So I think that's a really interesting approach tothis leveling or laddering career ladtering that we always talk aboutjust work specifically at six levels, just for AES and then they've also gota separate program for SDRs. The other thing that that rob mentioned we'vebeen talking a lot about in my circles. What's the average tenure for NSDR andit's looking like twelve to eighteen months is sort of about the amount oftime that an str can be expected to of sit in that roll, so develop a programthat takes your stours if you're an SDR, don't get ancy unless it's been aftertwelve to eighteen months, but develop a program that takes them up throughthat program and then prepares them to move on to become an acount executive.I think forty percent of the reps that are at just works now came from the SRprogram and they tend to, on average, contribute thirty percent more perperson when it comes to new Arr, so ththey're, more productive, becausethey're more bought into the culture because they've been developed andbecause they appreciate the career progression, so really really valuable.Insides from rob and just towards Kaself, as I mentioned, were customerover here, behavox great company. Now, if you want to find our podcast on theInternet, you can er on itunes or Google play or spotify, and if youenjoyed this episode, please share with your peers on linked, Ond, twitter orelsewhere. If you want to get in touch with me, find me on twitter, at Samf,Jacobs, ORT linkon at Linconcom, then the word in and then slash Sam efJacobs. If you have feedback on guests or recommendations and guess that youwant to see a peer on the sales hacker...

...podcast, please let us know we want tomake sure that the guests represent a great cross section of society, notjust white males. So if you have ideas about people that we should befeaturing, please let me know now once again, big shout out to our sponsorsfor this episode. Air Call Your advance call center software, complete businessphone and contact center, one hundred percent nativelyintegraded into anyserum and outreach, a customer engagement platform that helpsufficiently and effectively engage prospects to drive more pipeline andclose more deals. So I'll see you next time and I think when you're listeningto this, it might be near Thanksgiving. So if it is, I hope you have a greatThanksgiving and I'm sure I'll talk too soon. Bye.

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