The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

35: How Goal Setting Can Change Your Career with Dannie Herzberg, Sales Director, Slack

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This week on the Sales Hacker podcast, we interview Dannie Herzberg, Head of Mid-Market Sales at Slack.

Dannie is one of the top sales leaders in the country having spent time helping Hubspot IPO over 5+ years and then moving on to Slack where she leads all SMB, Mid-Market, and Sales Development efforts for the US and Canada. Check it out! 

One, two, one three.Quote. Hey folks, it's Sam Jacobs. Welcome to the sales hacker podcast.I am your host. I am the founder of the New York revenuecollective. I think we're going to change the name to revenue collective because we'vegot so many new chapter starting London, Denver, Boston, hopefully Toronto.So that's me. I'm also the chief Revenue Officer of the first behavioral operatingsystem started by behaviors. That is the name of the company. We've gotan amazing show today. We've got Danny Hertzberg, who runs SMB and midmarket and sales development for slack, one of the fastest growing companies in thecountry that we all know about. We all use, or at least Ido, every day, and Danny has an incredible background and incredible insights onmanaging her career and how to achieve what you want when some of it startswith writing down personal goals, which we'll talk about in the show. Nowwe want to thank, as usual, our sponsors. Nothing is possible withoutthe wonderful patronage of two important companies. Are Call and outreach. So aircall, it's a phone system. It's designed for the modern sales team.If you're running an antiquated sales team, are call is not for you.If you're running modern sales team, then air call might be for you.They seamlessly integrate into your crm, eliminating data and try for your reps andproviding you with greater visibility into your team's performance through advanced reporting. When it'stime to scale, you can add new lines in minutes and you can usein call coaching to reduce ramp time for your reps. visit are called out. I owe forward slash sales hacker to see why Uber Dune and Brad Street, pipe drive and thousands of others trust are call for the most critical salesconversations. Our second sponsor is outreached out I oh, the leading sales engagementplatform. At reach triples the productivity of sales teams and empowers them to drivepredictable and measurable revenue growth by prioritizing the right activities and scaling customer engagement withintelligent automation. Outreach makes customer facing teams more effective and approves his ability intowhat really drives results. So the website. There's outreached out IO. Forward saleshacker that is outreached io forward slash sales hacker. Finally, we wantto thank some of the people that have been writing in. Jason Demato,Jack Davis, Jordan Lavici, Rohit Shara, Olga Burco, Matthew Cotter, JoshCordio and grand power, who is also a university of Virginia Lungo,who's thank you for listening. Thank you for the feedback. We've got alot of great stuff coming up on the show. If you're listening to thistoday, it's November twenty, I believe, and happy Thanksgiving. It's an importantholiday. Make sure you say you love your loved ones, give everybodya hug that is that you're related to and that it's appropriate to do so. Don't lend her too long, because creepylong hugs are weird, but generally, give thanks for all that you have. I hope you have something and somebodyshare this with. So this is a rambling, an absurd intro andit's time to listen to the important thing, which is the interview with Danny Hertzberg. So, without further ado, let's listen to Danny. Hey,everybody, it's Sam j gibbs. Welcome to the sales hacker podcast. Todaywe've got one of the brightest, most promising sales leaders in the country onthe show and she's also representing one of the fastest grunt companies that I thinkmany of us use in our day to day lives. So we're incredibly excitedto have Danny Hurtzberg on the show. Danny is the head of mid marketsales at slack and she's overseeing slacks mid market S and B and sales developmentorganizations across the US. In Canada she's also go to market advisor for earlystage SASS companies. Prior to slack, she spent over five years at hubspot, where she participated in the company's growth from eighty to one twelve hundredemployees and through its IPO. And at hub spot she held roles in enterprisesales, sales management and most recently as director of product she is a smartperson who helds a bea from the University of Pennsylvania and an NBA from theStanford Graduate School of business. So, Danny, were so excited to haveyou on the show. Welcome to the show. Thank you. I'm soexcited to be here, as I was just mentioning before we hit record.The Sales Org at slack is a big, big fan of sales hacker podcast,so we constantly see old episodes getting sent around in various slack channels.So it's an honor to be here. Well, the honor is ours,but thank you for the positive feedback and we will file it away. Let'slet's learn a little bit more about you as a human being before we diveinto sort of the work itself and some of your observations on business. Sofirst we like to start with this thing that we call a baseball card.So I was introduced to you as Danny. Is that your full name? Tellus your full name. Oh, good question. If my full nameis Danielle, no, Middle Name Hertzberg, and I go by Danny, spelledin a funny way because my sister, who's seven years older than me,said she would only write my name in bubble letters on my three ringbinder in the first grade if I rebranded as Danny. And so for anyoneelse who's younger sibling, you know how much power the older sibling has andit's s stuck. There you go.

So it's Danielle officially, but Dannyto everybody in the world exactly. Our Director of sales at slack. Weknow. I think we know about slack. Always interesting to hear sort of likethe elevator pitch or the short description from from the person that works withthe company. So, in your words, what do you think slack does?Yeah, so I won't give you the official elevator pitch or one liner. I think the general concept is that we're a collaboration hub, but tome it's basically one place virtually where a company's culture and knowledge base lives.So it's a way for teams to be able to align in a very productiveand fun way around different goals and execute on those really efficiently, very verypowerful stuff. Roughly, I'm sure you can't give us any kind of forwardlooking guidance or anything like that, but what's the Rough Revenue Range of slack? Sure, I think what we've most recently stated publicly is that we areabove two hundred million and revenue and, as you mentioned before, been oneof the fastest growing SASS companies ever. Wow, and then your team specifically. So you are running SMB and mid market sales, is that right?And the Sales Development Organization. So tell us about all of the different roleson your team and then how big is the team that you're overseeing? Yeah, absolutely so. Right now the teams about forty. So there's four managersand then different Nice seas working on their teams. And it's changed actually sinceI joined, which is, you know, the nature of a high growth companyor start up. So when I joined I was leading SNB and strand. At the time, SMB was one to five hundred employee companies andstr was just getting going to figure out what do we do with this massivedatabase of free teams in order to engage people who actually would love a humanto reach out to them but we haven't yet, and so we ran thatplaybook from my first couple months. And then what we realized was the Royof having human proactively outreach to someone at a company was much, much higheras we worked with larger companies who basically need someone from slack to get allthe right people around the table to make a big decision about how they're goingto collaborate across the company, like where are all calms going to happen?Is a casual decision early days and you might pick up slack organically, butas soon as a company hits right around the fifty employee mark, it becomesmuch bigger conversation and much more sophisticated security questions. So what we decided todo is actually move the sales or my team up market and turn the SMBteam into a mid market org that focuses on to fifty to a thousand employeecompanies. And we still field inquiries from SMB companies and in fact, youknow, lots of prominent BC firms, PE firms, hedge funds all fallinto a lower kind of head count but very influential group. So what we'vedone is we have the sales development reps reacting to anyone who raises their handand just wants some human support there and answering questions or generating an invoice andthe full quotea carrying sales reps are focused more at market on some of themore sophisticated endeavors, and so in some sense the sales development team is arethey closing those inbound leads? Essentially. Yeah, so there's a sales DEVteam and I would say that umbrella covers sales development reps who focus on inbound. So if an inbound hand raiser comes in, they will promptly respond,they'll figure out what they're looking for, they'll get some context, they'll setthem up with an account exact who can help them more and they'll handle theinbound from some of those small companies. They're not measured or comped on upsellingthem by any means, but they're basically they are to provide some handholding,support and answer questions. And then we have a business development team who's moredoing proactive outreach. So we have, like I mentioned earlier, this massivedatabase of companies who have little pockets of teams using slack but not nearly thewhole company, and the Dr Team will very thoughtfully and personally reach out tothose folks and figure out if and how they can help and whether there's anopportunity to break down some of the silos within the ORG and have a broaderconversation about standardizing on slack across a whole company. So they're not doing traditionalcold outreach like you might see it other companies, given the premium nature ofslack and lots of usage that we see, but they are doing super proactive outreachinto some of our biggest accounts. Yeah, I mean you guys arein the unique and wonderful position of having probably thousands, if not hundreds ofthousands of pql's product qualified leads that are already using the service, and it'sabout turning those into different kinds of customers. Would imagine exactly exactly the challenge forus is figuring out what's the perfect point in time like? What canwe use from product insights for any other...

...triggers to get an idea of whenit would actually be super helpful and appropriate to reach out to someone without havingto do so manually? Yeah, that's something we could I would love todive in a little bit later. But so first you're running a pretty bigteam at one of the best companies that we know of. How did youend up here, and I guess here is San Francisco or the bay area. Are you from the bay area and and what was sort of the careerjourney that led you to slack in the first place? Share? So,yeah, I'm from Boston, originally a town called Brookline, and that washow my hup spot career started. So I went to pen like you mentioned. Immediately after pen I wanted to be close to my family. For allsorts of reasons and moved back to Boston started and management consulting. So notan obvious path to sales, but I would argue, a very accidentally productivepath into sales and spent two years at this tiny management consulting firm. Itwas a Boston consulting group offshoot and it was not my calling. I gota lot out of it, I would say, and that it was businessboot camp. I was a psych major Undergrad and this was my introduction tounderstanding pianos or understanding direct versus channel strategy. But the customer, the customers wewere working with, were large scale industrial manufacturers. So I was literallyspending most of my waking hours and time and energy thinking about how to sellmore wastewater pumps in various international markets. And I was sitting alone. I'mI'm an ambivert to extrovert like, so somewhere on that spectrum and certainly notfull on introvert. And I was spending most of my day alone in anoffice building financial models or powerpoint decks and a tiny chunk of my day doingthis very fun competitive intelligence when I would just cold call into water treatment plantsand figure out how they make decisions about what they speck and oddly enough,that was the highlight of my day. And so, as as exciting asthat sounds, I think I got an I got an inkling. I didn'tknow at the time that I got an inkling for realizing where I drive myenergy. And almost two years into my role and management consulting, I startedlooking elsewhere and was going to pursue a role at Google, but the thingwas it was in the New York office and I was not ready to leavethe Boston area. So I literally copy and paste the job description with theword Boston next to it and lo and behold, hub spot shows up anda job break shows up, which was very appropriate because up spot was superfocused on teaching people how to do Seo Strategy at the time. So theyshowed up at the top of Google and I spent hours on the website justconsuming their endless content. Totally developed a crush on hub spot. The companyjust was super intrigued and then, after seven rounds of interviews for various roles, I was you know, I would have taken that first job for freeat up spot. It was like a bunch of geeks in a coworking space, having a blast peeking out about marketing and tech, and these were brandnew worlds for me and totally different from the world I was in. Sowow, that was the how I found how such completely serendipitous, you knowsent that was a very lucky, right time, right place scenario and Ithink you know you get lucky once and then you hope to make your ownluck moving forward. So so yeah, I entered in sales randomly. Itwas very lucky for me that I had no idea what sales was all about, like they had never even really understood the reputation of sales or the pressurethat comes with it. And had I had all those ideas in my mindabout sales being not intellectual, which is a myth by the way, andsales being, you know, selling used cars, I might have shied awayfrom it. And thankfully I came in totally ignorant and realized, much tomy pleasant surprise, that sales is getting paid and rewarded for basically just chattingwith people, and mostly not even chatting, like asking them questions about their lifestory, remembering details here and there and ruthlessly spending time with people thatyou can help. And only people you can help. So I was totallyhooked after that first job. And so did you start in sales at hubspot and was your lack of prior sales experience an issue when you were rampingup or, you know, was it sort of like the Andrew Quinn salestraining school at that time that you were sort of sculpted and molded into anincredible salesperson after the consequence of their onboarding and training program Yeah, the Schoolof Andrew Quinn was critical and programmatically investing...

...that much in on boarding so thathub spot could hire more junior folks into sales and teach them the way first. Actually, what Quinn did really well is he doesn't even teach you howto sell. You spent two weeks just learning how to basically trust that you'rean expert in your domains so that once you talk to a prospect, youcan really tap into a sense of confidence, regardless of your tenure, regardless ofyour age, and truly believe that you can help them transform the waythat they market their business. So I think it was brilliant what he didthere. I was hired in yes as a sales up, not a BEDRor anything. I was actually hired into enterprise sales at the time, whichwas not the cool place to be at hubs box. It was an sand B Sass Company, so I'm like, Oh man, I'm an enterprise butthat turned out to be a great opportunity and Halligan, when he wasinterviewing me for my final round, yeah, basically called out all the things thatdon't exist on my resume. Seemed impressed enough with my waitressing experience ata diner in Newton with kind of a signal that I can sell enough,I kind of I get the commission based structure and the meritocracy thing and thenmade a bet on aptitude and I'm so, so grateful that they did and thatthey and then they had all those systems in place to trade me hadactually learned to sell. So you were there for quite a while, overfive years. So what was that journey like, because you joined when thecompany was relatively small and all the way through Ipoh, which is rare.What was that experience like? Yeah, it was an unbelievable experience and I'mfeeling a lot of it here at slack at a different scale today. Soat hub spot. I mean the thing about joining a high growth company periodto anyone's evaluating multiple job offers right now or figuring out whether to go fora fancy title versus a High Growth Company that will no doubt grow, isthat the company grows as fast, or even faster than an individual can.So if you are someone who likes reinventing themselves and growing, like you know, hubs fought was a perfect place to do that. So your one.I got to do enterprise sales. Year two I joined Pete Kapuda, whobecame my mentor. He's an amazing he built our channel sales program so Iwas, you know, one of his very first reps, joining him andbuilding a new program that became forty percent of the company's revenue at the highestLTB tocack ratios. And my third year I moved into management, and againthanks to Pete's guidance. I could talk through that later, but moved intomanage and, at a young age, was thrown into all sorts of funsurprises. They are loved it. And then my fourth year, agreed withHalligan that I would move out to the bay area. To Circle back toyour question and scratch this itch that I had in part, like I wantedto see. You know, what is it like in the heart of silkand valley and how can I meet with some of the most influential customers thatwe have out in the bay area? And what is it like to,you know, go hiking on weekends? Like the personal stuff too. SoI moved out west man and managed remotely for a year and in my finalyear, how can actually created a new role on the product team which wasvery new and very different, and that was director, basically business development theAPP market place. So the job was to take what was a okay,very low NPS customer and PS market place, basically scrap it and then relaunch itfrom scratch. Wow. So let's answer that question really quickly. Whatwas it like being an east coast native, being from Boston, going to painmoving to the bay area? For All of us that have never actuallylived in the bay area but gaze longingly out, what are the differences?Sometimes I gaze longingly right back in that direction. Yeah, I would saymy personality is definitely still an east coast person. Finality, for sure.You know my background is. You know my family, my parents and sisterare Russian immigrants, which gives you like a very at times cynical east coastpersonality. That fits. But the big thing about what I've noticed here inthe bay areas everyone moves here proactively chasing a dream. So very few peoplefrom the bay area grew up in the bay area, which means that everyonemade an active decision to move here based on some sort of ambition, andI love surrounding myself with those kinds of people. That's, you know,part of why I ended up going to business school too was for someone elseto hand pick those kind of people for me so that I could up mygame and stretch and learn. So one of the best things about being outhere is that people are pure optimists, which is a really good influence onme. And there is amazing work life, perhaps not worklife bounce, but amazingworklife integration. It's a total gray...

...area between, you know, whatis professional networking and what are friends meeting up, and they bleed into eachother and to me that makes life feel very rich and fun. Yeah,worklife integration is probably a phrase that needs to be popularized in some way,because I think the concept of worklife balance when we're all connected, is becomingmore difficult to attain totally. So you went to GSB and then you've joinedslack. Talk to us about the differences between hub spot and slack. You'venow been part of, or are part of, sort of two of thegreat success stories of Tech and particularly of in a way, of like SMBor mid market tech. Certainly, hub spot has always maintained that it atleast from what I know, that it was going to serve a specific segmentfirst and foremost, and slack seems to have emerged in a similar way.But what are the similarities and differences between those two companies? Yeah, thereare many of each. So I would say to preface the differences, Iwould say the way I ended up at slack was that slack represented something thatI have that was eagerly seeking and pursuing, particularly during my Mba when I hadsome time to experiment and think about what I really wanted and I haven'tseen elsewhere in the market, which is a relatable, usable product, totallyconsumer style in the way that it's built and designed, but squarely an enterprisebusiness model. And you don't you don't even see that with dropbox. Youdon't see that with ever. Note there's lots of fremium companies, but slackis the only one that feels super intuitive and you can playfully use it forfantasy football league or whatever, but predominantly it is built to serve organizations forproductivity and cultural purposes. So that was the holy grail for me and it'sa really big difference from the way that hub spot emerge. So hub spotemerged as a go to market focused company. First a CEO has a sales backgroundfrom PTC and he hired a really strong CMO, Mi Volbe, whobuilt, you know, an inbound lead machine of hand raisers who are requestingebooks and webinars etc. And then eventually the product caught up and actually todayit is a very sophisticated, wide reaching product. One of the reasons forthat was early days up spot made a very smart and strategic acquisition of DavidCancel's company. That the drift CEO's company, performable and his engineers came in andbasically we wrote the product from scratch and made it really good. Butfor my first two years a hub spot I was kind of selling the conceptof Seo. I was, you know, we had amazing mind share and nota lot of market share and we use that mind share to teach smallcompanies how they can transform into the digital age and use their websites for Leagenvehicles. And we built up so much goodwill through putting out so much freecontent and actually just spending a lot of time with these small business owners onthe phone that they ended up buying the product and then, luckily, theirbets the early you know, the early bets paid off in the the productgrew to be quite sophisticated and quite a game changer. But meanwhile, flipto slack. You know, we have a product oriented founder who's brilliant andwith a philosophy background, and the product emerged and, I think you know, surpassed many millions of dollars, tens if not hundred million dollars, withouthiring a single salesperson, which meant that product market fit was nailed from thevery Geckos, a beautifully designed product that kind of spoke for itself and lentitself well to self service. And then eventually we figured out that wow,there is an amazing and powerful enterprise application here. There was no shortage offortune. One hundred companies using slack and pockets of its Org, and sowe built both an enterprise product team here in an enterprise sales or can goto market work here to figure out how to meet those customers where they areand buy in a way that they're used to buying. One of the thingsthat I've seen with companies that grow so quickly from essentially a self service basisis that the sales team spends some amount of time when they're hired, kindof mid journey, in a period of I don't know if it's existential selfdiscovery, but it's it's something where you're trying to figure out if this person's quotais five hundred thou a year fully ramped and we're already a hundred million dollarbusiness. Gosh, I'm going to need a lot of these people to changethe growth trajectory of the business and you know, I've seen that at placeslike digitalotion, for example. Was that an issue for you all, orwas it such an underserved category, The the enterprise category, that it wasjust purely incremental and you never felt the pressure of having to contribute math?So amounts of percentage point to the overall compline growth curve? Good question.I wouldn't say it's either camp. The...

...sales work definitely feels the pressure,which I think is a healthy thing and and sales people thrive in that environment. But it's not, you know, life or death pressure. It's weunderstand that part of being on board for a high growth company's journey is figuringstuff out as we go. So I would say we're not hyper obsessed withtracking the exact Roy of every single sales rep although we do do that,and we tweak our quotas as we go and we tweet, you know,all expectations of what someone should carry as the team scales. But there wasan absolute need to staff and enterprise sales organ it was a no brainer.And I think that slack, you know, one of our core attributes at thecompany that we look for and employees as humility, and I think slackthe company's you know, the individuals leading the company or humble enough to knowthat there was a ingredient of luck to get us where we are today andwe can't ride that luck forever. So now we are being very intentional abouthow to seize what could be a limited window of opportunity as the leader inthe market. Hopefully it's our as to lose and make sure we have aseat at the table with customers when they're making really big, fundamental decisions abouthow they are going to communicate as an organization. Like imagine, you know, you talking to a company with thousands or tens of thousands or more employees, figuring out how Dublin team talks to the San Francisco team, how productan edge communicate with the PR team for a product lunch. That's a really, really big deal. So to assume that that can happen with just acredit card being swiped and one team making that decision is unrealistic. Yeah,now, you're absolutely right and I am immersed myself in my day job inthe machinations and the trench warfare. That is compressive. It's fun too,like you know, when done right, you feel really good about what you'redoing. Like I I mean personally, it would be very hard to sellor lead a sales team without the conviction that someone is crazy for not usingmy product. Like if I had a family member starting a business or runninga massive business, which I unfortunately don't right now, I would be passionateabout them using slack. You know, whether that affected my sales numbers ornot. Yeah, well, I mean belief in the product is obviously very, very hard to fake in a powerful accelerant. And then to your otherpoint, I find that enterprise sales is fun and it's highly strategic in away that when I was running us and Bam in market teams it wasn't quitea strategic trying to understand all of the different roles and all the different preferencesof all the different decision makers. It's exciting. So one of the questionsI have have is sort of like, when you think about the factors thathave propelled your career to date and sort of how you ended up here,what do you attribute your success to? You know, your track record atthis point is amazing. You know, incredible Undergrad School, you were partof an Ipoh at hub spot. He then went to best business school inthe country and now you're at one of the fastest growing technology companies, again, probably on a path to Ipoh. What factors, when you look backand reflect, what do you attribute that success to? Yeah, well,one thing I don't attribute it to is the pedigree of the universities, althoughI was really lucky to go to both of those schools. And it helpedme surround myself mostly with a group of friends who challenges me and makes methink creatively and differently. I don't think either of those are necessary at allfor a career in TAC I think we have an amazing meritocracy in our world. That has very little to do with you know how fancy your test scoresare school you went to. So those I would put in kind of likethe personal enrichment category more than professional enrichment. But yeah, I would say oneof the things that helped at least accelerate my career was a concept thatPete Kaputa, who I mentioned earlier. It was actually my fourth boss thathelp spot, but I started working with him a year and to working thereand he introduce this concept to me of writing down and sharing my personal andprofessional goals. So the backstory is when I started working with him, hehad me do the sales assessment. I was at the time the top salesup and really overly attached to that reputation. So took a lot of pride inthat reputation. So you can imagine how fragile my ego was when Iget the sales assessment back and there are multiple, like big fat red circlesaround key attributes that would predict success in sales. Was this the objective managementfor a Dave curr? Indeed it was the OMG, which is how Ifelt. Oh Mg, I'm not destined for success in sales. And somany times that you'll get on the phone with one of them and they'll say, yeah, you know, I don't even know. I if you shouldcontinue working with this person or like,...

I thought they were pretty good.Thank goodness they did not whisper that and Piz here, or if they didyou have ignored it. But basically, so we sit down for a longlunch, you know, analyzing my assessment, and you know there are other bigred circles that we would talk about for now. But one of themwas orientatition toward goals. And it turns out successful salespeople are very goal oriented, which is true. I think we have a misnomer of being money orientedor quite operated, which I truly don't believe, although you know, peopleenjoy being compensated. Well, I think the true motivation comes from setting anachieving goals ambitiously. So I didn't have any goals laid out. I wasthriving in my career, so happy to be there. are still felt likeI would have taken the job for free. So I was like yeah, Idon't know, you know, and he really pushed me to set agoal. So I came back to him a week later and said, okay, I'd never considered management, but I think I'd love to run a companyone day, so I should probably learn how to manage people. And so, you know, as I was two thousand four hundred and twenty five atthe time, I was twenty four when I set the goal. By AgeTwenty Five, within that year I moved into the next open management role inhis team as he moved into a director role, and that was the biggestgame changer in my career. I mean management has been the most fulfilling elementof my career for sure, and I don't think I would have gotten there, I certainly wouldn't gotten there as quickly, if I hadn't written the goal down, shared it with not just Pete, with others to hold myself accountable toit, and I've now woven that into kind of my own professional developmentpractice and how I encourage my managers to do the same with their directs.How often? This is a hard article question because I do some of thesethings myself and I'm always wondering as I do them, what everybody else isdoing. How often do you update your goals? And that's question number one. I'll start. Okay, so I think it depends on what stage ofyour career you're in, because there's part of me who's you know, that'sa hypocrite. Right now I'll tell you why. But as a individual contributorand even with the managers, the cadence that I aimed for is once everysix months and we look at short term goals, which is, what areyou hoping to achieve in the next twelve months, and it's really a wayto just pause and take yourself out of the daytoday and think critically about,you know, what am I building toward? What's the collection of experiences I want? What are the nights and weekends projects that I want to take onthat, you know, not only help the company but help me and ithelps the manager become an advocate for their direct and, you know, bridgesome connections, cross functionally, etc. So every six months feels about rightand it's just kind of a good time for a heart to heart with someoneand zoom out. And then what I would say is that one shouldn't beregimented about it, or you block yourself off to the beauty of serendipity.So right now I don't have pen to paper on a goal. I havea really good sense of where I drive my energy. When I'm happiest,what days I leave work and I'm like that didn't feel like work at all. That feel like play, and what days I feel totally drained of energy, and so I'm keeping close track of those and then trusting on, youknow, trusting serendipity in part to figure out what's next. I believe inthat. Where do you drive your when it is a great day? Wheredid the Great Day come from? What were the experiences that may occur?Well, this isn't surprising because I'm in sales and I'm in management, buta great day is working with people. A particularly great day is working throughsomething tough off like a real puzzle, be at a you know, careerdevelopment conversation with someone that's not straightforward, or working through a hairy enterprize dealand brainstorming in a way that is helpful to someone else. And you know, I get the secondary benefit of a psychological game like that just fun.So that's a really great day. The other thing that makes a day greatfor me, and I think is part of this role, is variety.So being out in the field, being in meetings, you know, buildinga training whatever it might be. Just having intellectual variety and even variety ofsettings keeps the day flying by for me. Do you batch your day in anyparticular way? One of the places where I continue to struggle as sortof transitioning from transactional work to kind of contemplative work or or thoughtful work.Do you program your data specific way to maximize your impact across different types ofwork? Not as much as I should. So I think you've had John Barrowson the podcast before and he led an amazing training for our sales repsrecently where he was talking about the burden of cognitive switching costs. Like hewas saying it in terms of advocating for a prospecting a one person at atimes you're really living and breathing their world and thinking about them rather than switchingit up. But that really resonated with me. There is a cost toswitching settings too frequently and so what I...

...find is early in the mornings mybrain is super sharp up. So if I want to write a thoughtful notein slack or an external email to someone, I often do that early in themorning. And then I usually spend, you know, two nights, twoweek nights, a week late at the office just catching up on stuffthat I can't like the big strategic things that you can't think about without acouple hours carved out to think about them. Or if I'm in person, alot of the managers and teams I work with a remote, so ifI'm in Toronto meeting with one of the managers, will schedule two hours fora white boarding session and I find that to be a super productive use oftime. But the honest answers, no, not nearly as much as I should. So thank you for that reminder. Sure, we had Dan pink onthe show and he has a book about perfect timing and his point isthat for people that are larks, which are early morning people, that youneed to maximize sort of your thoughtfulness work early in the morning because by rightaround now in the East Coast it's approaching zero pm, and this is sadly, given my age, when I turn into a Pumpkin, and so Ihave to sort of do hardcore stuff in the morning or else I become unproduced. Sound great, you sound energetic as ever. Well, this was all, you know, a projection of my insecurities. I could receive more positivefeedback, so I'm here for you, Sam. Thank you, Danny.One of the things, frankly, just in a spirit of openness, wehad a listener comment that, you know, it feels like white man after whiteman on the on the salesacker podcast, and we don't want it to belike that, and I certainly don't want it to be like that.There aren't many female sales leaders and so, you know, talking to somebody likeyourself who is a female sales leader and a future CEO, why doyou think that is and what should we what should I like? What shouldthe world do to change that? Should we change it? I'm just curious. On Yourself, I think it's awesome that you were already thinking about thatand being proactive about it, and you're totally right. There aren't nearly asmany female sales leaders as there could beers there should be, but luckily thatis already changing and with each one of us that decides to pursue the leadershippath. It makes it easier for other people to see an example of whatthat could look like and do the same. So I do believe that is changingand I do have a long list of amazing women who are in impressivesales leadership roles who can and should be guests on this podcast to so,and some of them I'll give you in a one way to change this.So sequoia was very proactive about this and last night Jamie bought, one ofthe lead talent partner and her colleague Jenny, hosted a dinner in Jamie's home forfemale sales leaders, and not just of sequoia portfolio companies, but literallyjust creating community around us. And it was super simple, though you knowit was. It was a beautiful dinner and we had a very raw andreal conversation and out of that emerged an amazing community of women who are goingto hold ourselves accountable to doing whatever it is that we were talking through wantingto achieve and who can learn from each other. And so, you know, Jamie happened to be a female leader in the text base and at apremier investment firm, but I think that that kind of strategy is possible foranyone. You know, if you want to meet great female sales leaders oryou want to meet other underrepresented minorities in the go to market world, createthe group that you want to be part of and bring us all together andwe will absolutely relish that. Or just tap into anyone you know. Reachout to me, and this is an open ended offer to anyone who's listening. Reach out to me and say, Danny, who are five women arewho are five people who aren't obvious, you know, who don't fit thestereotypical mold, who I should meet, and I will absolutely give you alist of those people and they'll be happy to grab coffee with you. Soit's changing and as my one of my mentors, and Ray Mondays, isamazing woman, most recently sp of opset at Zendesk, but has had allsorts of roles and sales HR product. She likes to say that it's ateam sport. So you know, all of us women who are progressing inour careers or bringing everyone else up with us, and that's part of thefun. So yeah, it's changing and I'm feeling very, very otimistic andI'm also very grateful for my male mentors. You know, I've I've been mentioninga lot of men who have helped me in the journey, and myboss now, Kevin Eagan, and our globalist Wep of sales and success,Bob, are incredible allies and champions who themselves the built to really diverse work. So I'm feeling good about it good. Is there anything you know? Youmentioned some of the things that sort of women can do themselves. Starta networking group. Put yourself at the...

...center of the group that you're seekingto advocate for. Is there anything that we should do? I should doeither tactically in the interview process or in the hiring process? There specific considerationsI should be mindful of as I'm collaborating with partners of all different shapes andsizes and and genders? Absolutely, there's lots of stuff you can do.I would say at the earliest stage of the recruiting funnel. A tool calledtextio is phenomenal. We use it here at slack and basically what it doesis help you uncover bias in the way that even a job description is written. So if you want to say I want to open up the aperture andincrease the pipeline of female candidates. Are you name, you know, filmthe blank candidates applying to a role text. You will literally help you do thatthrough NLP and machine learning algorithms. That is one so you know,get access to a broader pool. The other thing is we rely on ournetworks quite a bit to build our teams and I think that's very natural andit's great and many ways. But what happens is historically the people who haveled sales orgs are men, and so most of the people in your networkare probably going to look and sound somewhat similar to another and and not evenyou know, gender and race aside, many will have come from the samecompanies. That's how you met. So I think being aware of seeking outdiversity of thought amongst other diversity factors is really important because it'll help you makebetter decisions, it will help people challenge you when you want to have debateand it will help you from kind of recreating the same playbook over and overand or falling into traps. So that's one part. And I think beingvocal about who you want to hire would be great, you know, soasking someone who were some absolute rock star women in your network who I shouldbe talking to, whether they're looking for a job or not, and justsit down and have coffee with them and bring them into your network and thatwill snowball. And then, lastly, you know, the sequoia event forwomen leaders was amazing and there's something really special about having just women around thetable and and some vulnerability that comes with that that we're all willing to diveinto. But I think it is equally, if not more, powerful to havea fully diverse group at the table when you're talking about stuff like this. So I love your question because it means you, as a male,want to bring women into the conversation. I think some of the most impactfulconversations I've been part of that, if yielded important results, include not justwhatever the minority group is and that and that role. Well, thank youfor the advice and we will certainly put it to good use. We arenearing the end of our time together, Danny, so this has been amazing. We want to leave room for sort of to less things. One ofthem is we like to pay it forward and talk about a few people.You've mentioned a bunch, but people that we should know about that have helpedyou navigate your career, played a mentor role or just had a big influence. So who are some folks that we should be aware of that I hada big impact? Yeah, I mentioned a handful of them. I'm reallybig on choosing different sounding boards for different topics. My most frequent and influentialsounding board by far is my husband, Jake, who's an investor at emergencecapital, amazing firm, and he happens to be an amazing partner and humanso I go to him usually first when I'm working through any sort of bigdecisions or I want to roll play a difficult conversation, whatever it is.Other people who have helped me some have come from within the orgs, sowithin the ORG, you know, Pete helped me write down goals. Healso taught me how to sell and really pushed me, like to an uncomfortabledegree, which I love. I think true mentorship is all about pushing peopleto truly grow and be comfortably uncomfortable and whatever they're working on, and Iwould say that Kevin Egan, my current boss, are vp of sales atslack, who is amazing, pushes me quite a bit. So the waythat our oneonone sound is basically, you know, all throughout, an ideaout there, and then he'll ask a really tough question that completely challenges whateverit is that I've put on the table and challenges me to think big andbe opinionated about it. So he'll say, you know, you're standing in frontof Stewart Butterfield right now or you're standing in front of all of Standfordbusiness school right now. What is slack story on our decision to do x, Y Z and why? And what that teaches me and what holds meaccountable to is knowing my numbers down pat and understanding how someone else could pokeholes, anticipating how someone could poke holse my argument and engaging in healthy debateas a way to grow and make good decisions. And Bob Our sup ofglobal operates in exactly the same way. So those are some at hub spot. So in sales as it as Pete, but for product strategy, Brad who'snow the chiefs strategy officer, but he was VPA product when I workedunder him, was really instrumental, and as was Brian Holligan, the CEO, in challenging me to think about the...

...long term product strategy of an organizationbecause of one of the tough things about building career and sales, particularly earlydays when it was SANB sales that up spot, is you start thinking inshort term increments. You get this quick gratification from quick wins that are veryvalidating, but product strategy and company strategy is much more long term oriented.So for someone you know, if anyone, seeking out a sounding board to thinkabout what should the long term, big picture strategy of my company beand what are some hard decisions I'm going to make, like what am Igoing to say no to in that process? And up spot said no to enterpriseearly days. I would say certainly bad coffee and the founders of hubspot were great at that. That's amazing and it's just awesome to hear aboutpeople that have a really positive influence on other people. So we tip ourhats to them. What's Your Life Mantra? I'm sure you have a few andyou mentioned writing down personal goals, but what are some other life mantrasthat you have? Yeah, team sport was a life mantra. I wasmeeting with one of my business school professors yesterday huggy route and he was talkingabout this stage of life is all about flexing your helping muscle, not yourachievement muscle, and I really like that as a professional mantra, because thehelp muscle brings you a whole lot further than the rat race of the achievementmuscle and obsession with numbers at all costs. So I guess that would lead meto a bigger life. Mantra is. Karma is real, the world issmall and careers are very, very long. So you know, winningat all costs is not worth it. Relationships are. Being a good personcultivating good relationships for the long term is always the right way to operate,and it will pay off many, many full because people remember the way thatyou interacted with them and because krmo's is a real and true force. Icompletely agree, Danny. If people listening to this have been inspired and wantto reach out to you, or maybe they want to apply for a jobat slack, can they? And you have a preferred communication channel, whetherthat's email linkedin twitter. How can people reach you if you're open to it? Yes, yes, yes, we are hiring. Yes, please reachout. You may be a great fit for my team or one of mycolleagues teams, or maybe you just want to you know, you want asounding board right now to think through your next career decision. I would loveto talk to you. My favorite channel for communication is something called slack,but if you are not a guest user in our slack account, then Iwould say, you know, reach out to me on Linkedin and and writea blurb and we'll find a way to you know, to hop on thephone or meet up in person. That sounds wonderful, Danny. Thank youso much. Congrats on all your success. We're going to continue to follow yourcareer as you grow, and congrats on picking a bunch of great companies. We all love slack. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Sam Hey, folks, it's Sam Jacobs. That was a great interviewwith Danny Hertzberg. She's seems very calm and very poised and professional about howshe manages her career. She seems like she'd be a great manager and it'sclearly a test Stan to the success that she's had both at hub spot andnow it's slack. And she said a number of things that I think arebear repeating and are worthy of remarking on one of them. The biggest one, I think, is writing down your personal goals. Both Dan and Iand others that have worked for me have taken this objective management group, omgassessment, and one of the things they clearly talked about is can you defineand articulate what your short and long term professional goals are, and can yoube specific? That's something that John Barrows often talks about as well. Canyou produce the document that has your goals? Danny talks about doing it every sixmonths. We're all somewhat inconsistent when it comes to that, I think. But if you can write down your goals and figure out where you wantto be in a year, where you want to be in three years andfive years, I think that's important. The thing that I will tell youfrom having done this for now six or seven years, they have to besmart goals with all of the things that that acronym stands for. You can'tjust say I want to be worth twenty million dollars in a year if it'snot realistic in any way, if you can't measure it and if you're overlyfocused on outcomes versus inputs, if you're focused on things that you can't controlversus what you can control over the course of your day. I think you'redefeating the purpose of writing the goal. These are mistakes that I've personally made. So that's kind of thing number one. Thing number two is if you're tryingto develop advocacy for a particular group. Danny and I talked about what canwe do as sales professionals to cultivate and promote sales leadership among women,and she talked about forming groups and putting yourself at the center of the groupthat you want to advocate for. I think that's great advice. One ofthe specific things that she mentioned is a company called Textio, which can gothrough your job descriptions and reveal unconscious cognitive bias and unconscious bias that might bemanifesting itself through choices of words that you're using or phrasing that you're using.So can you change your job description to...

...remove the gender bias and sort ofpresent a more neutral stance so that you can appeal to a wider group ofprofessionals? I think that that is our goal. So that has been Sam'scorner and Danny also mentioned. If you want to reach out to where youcan over linkedin. Lastly, we want to thank our sponsors. You knowwho our sponsors are. They are outreach and air call. Outreach is yourcustomer engagement platform that helps effectively and efficiently engage prospects to drive more pipeline andclose more deals, and air call is your advanced call center software, completebusiness phone and contact center, one hundred percent natively integrated into any crm.Lastly, lastly, if you want to find me, you can. Youcan reach me on Linkedin, at Linkedincom. Slash the word in. I MSam F Jacobs and I will try to respond. I will respond andif you want to share the content that you've heard here on the podcast,please do so. Please share it liberally. Please tell all your friends. Weappreciate the feedback, we appreciate the patronage and we've got a lot morenew content coming up and new types of content as well. Finally, happyThanksgiving, thanks for listening to the salesacker podcast and I'll see you next time.

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