The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

35: How Goal Setting Can Change Your Career with Dannie Herzberg, Sales Director, Slack

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This week on the Sales Hacker podcast, we interview Dannie Herzberg, Head of Mid-Market Sales at Slack.

Dannie is one of the top sales leaders in the country having spent time helping Hubspot IPO over 5+ years and then moving on to Slack where she leads all SMB, Mid-Market, and Sales Development efforts for the US and Canada. Check it out! 

One two one tee three Bo: He folks at Sam Jacobs, welcome to thesales hocker podcast. I am your host. I am the founder of the New York revenuecollective. I think we're going to change the name to revenue cective,because we've got so many new chapter starting London, Denver Boston,Hopefully Toronto. So that's me, I'm also. The chief Revenue Officer of thefirst behavioral operating system started by Behavox. That is the name ofthe company. We've got an amazing show. Today. We've got Danny Hurtsburg, whoruns SMB and midmarket and sale development for slack one of thefastest growng companies in the country that we all know about. We all use- orat least I do every day and Danny- has an incredible background and incredibleinsights on managing her career and how to achieve what you want, and some ofit starts with writing down personal goals, which will talk about in theshow. Now we want to think as usual, our sponsors. Nothing is possiblewithout the wonderful patronage of two important companies, air call andoutreach. So aircall, it's a phone system, it's designed for the modernsalesteam. If you're running an antiquated sales team ar call is notfor you, if you're running, modern sales team, then aircol might be foryou, they seamlessly integrate into your crm, eliminating data entry foryour reps and providing you with greater visibility into your teamsperformance to advance refording when it's time to scale you can have newlines and minutes, and you can use in cull coaching to reduce foramp time foryour reps visit ar called that Io Ford, Les Sales Tacker to see why wooper doneand Brad Street pipe drive and thousands of others trust aircall forthe most critical sales conversations. Our second sponsor is out reached Adaothe leading sales engagement platform, a reach triples the productivity ofsales teams and empowers them to drive, predictable and measurable revenuegrowth by prioritizing the right activities and scale, and customerengagement with intelligent automation, outreach mixed customer facing teamsmore effective and approves as ability into what really drives results. So thewebsite thereis out reached Oud Iol Ford, Sish Salezacker, that isoutreached Yo forward splash sales hacker. Finally, we want to think someof the people that have been writing in Jason, Demoto Jack Davis, Jordan,Movesi Rohit, Shara, Oga, Berco, Matthew, cotter, Josh, Cordel and GranPower, who is also a university of Virginia Longo who's. Thank you forlistening. Thank you for the feedback. We've got a lot of great stuff comingup on the show. If you're listening to this today, it's November twentieth, Ibelieve and happy Thanksgiving, it's an important holiday. Make sure you sayyou love your loved ones, give everybody a hug, those that you'related to and that it's appropriate to do so, don't linger to Ong, becausecreepy longhugs are weird, but generally I give thanks for all thatyou have. I hope you have something, and somebody share this with. So thisis a rambling, an absurd intro and it's time to listen to the important thing,which is the interview with Danny Hirtsburg. So without further do let'slisten to Danny everybody. It's Sam Jacobs, welcome tothe saleshacker podcast. Today, we've got one of the brightest most promisingsales leaders in the country on the show and she's, also representing oneof the fastest grant companies that I think many of us use in our day todaylive so we're incredibly excited to ve. Danny Hurtsburg on the show Danny isthe head of midmarket sales at slack and she's, overseeing slacks midmarketS, NDB and sales development organizations across the US in Canada.She's also go to market adviser for early stage SASS companies prior toslack. She spent over five years at hub spot where she participated in thecompany's growth from eighty to over twelve hundred employees and throughits IPO and at hub spot. She held roles and enterprise sales, sales managementand, most recently as directof product. She is a smart person who held a BAfrom the University of Pennsylvania and an MBA from the Stanford graduateschool business, so Ganny worke so excited to have you on the show.Welcome to the show. Thank you I'm so excited to be here. As I was justmentioning before we hit record the sales orgat sack is a big big fan ofsales. Hacker podcast, so we constantly see old episodes getting sent around invarious slock channels. So it's an honor to be here. Well, the honor isours, but thank you for the positive feedback and we will file it away. Let's, let's learn a little bit moreabout you, as a human being before we dive into sort of the work itself andsome of your observations on business. So first we like to start with thisthing that we call a baseball card, so I was introduced to as Danny. Is thatyour full name? Tellus your phone name, Oh good question, my full name isDanielle no middle name Hurtsburg and I go by Danny, spelled in a funny way,because my sister who's seven years older than me said she would only writemy name in bubble. Letters on my three ring binder in the first grade, if Irebranded as Danny and so for anyone else, whos younger sibling, you knowhow much power the older sibling has and it's stuck there you go so it'sDaniel officially, but Danny to...

...everybody in the world, exaor directorof sales, TAT's flack. We know, I think we know about slack, always interestingto hear sort of like the elevator pitch or the short description from from theperson that works at the company. So in your words, what do you think slackdoes yeah, so I won't give you the official elevator pitcture one liner. Ithink that the general concept is that we're a collaboration hub, but to meit's basically one place virtually where companies, culture and knowledgebase lives. So it's a way for teams to be able to aline in a very productiveand fun way around different goals and execute on those really officiently,very, very powerful stuff. Roughly I'm sure you can't give us any kind offorward looking guidance or anything like that, but what's Te Rough RevenueRange of slack sure, I think what we've most recently state of publicly is that we 're abovetwo hundred million in revenue and, as you mentioned before, then one of thefastest growing Hass companies ever well and then your team specifically.So you are running FMB and midmarket sales. Is that right and the saledevelopment organization so tell us about all of the different roles onyour team and then how big is the team that you're overseeing yeah absolutelyso right? Now the team is about forty, so there's four managers and thendifferent ices working on their teams and it's changed. Actually, since Ijoined, which is you know, the nature of high growth company or startup. Sowhen I joined, I was leading SMB and SDR and at the time SMB was one to fivehundred employee companies and SDR was just getting going to figure out. Whatdo we do with this massive database of free teams in order to engage peoplewho actually would love a human to reach out to them that we have ' get?And so we ran that playbook for my first couple months and then what werealized was the Roy of having human proactively outreach to someone at acompany was much much higher as we worked with larger companies whobasically need someone from slack to get all the right people around thetable to make a big decision about how they're going to collaborate across thecompany like where are all calms going to happen is a casual decision earlydays and you might pick up slack organically, but as soon as a companyhits right around the O Urd ad fifty employee mark, it becomes a much biggerconversation and much more sophisticated security questions. Sowhat we decided to do was actually move the sales or my team upmarket and turnthe SMB team into a midmarket org that focuses on t fifty t, O thousandemployee companies and we still feeled inquiries from SMB companies and infact you know lots of prominent VC firms. Pe Firms, hedge funds, all fallinto a lower kind of head count, but very influential group. So what we'vedone is we have the sales development raps reacting to anyone who raisestheir hand and just wants some human support there and answering questionsor generating an invoice, and the full quota carrying sales. Reps are focusedmore at Marcettam, some of the more sophisticated endeavors and so, in some sense, the salesdevelopment team. Are they closing those inbound leads essentially yeah.So there's a SALESTABF team and I would say that umbrella covers salesdevelopment raps, who focus on in bound so Fanan, Boun, Henrys or comes in.They will promptly respond, they'll figure out what they're looking forthey'll get some context. They'll set them up with an account exact who canhelp them more and they'll handle the inbound from some of those smallcompanies they're not measured or comped, on upselling them by any means,but they're basically there to provide some handholding support and answerquestions. And then we have a business development team, who's, more doingproactive outreach. So we have, like I mentioned earlier. This massivedatabase of companies who have little pockets of teams using slack but notnearly the whole company and the BDR team, will very thoughtfully andpersonally reach out to those folks and figure out if and how they can help andwhether there's an opportunity to break down some of the sylas within the Orga.An have a broader conversation about standardizing on Slach across a wholecompany. So they're not doing traditional cold outreach like youmight see at other companies, given the fremium nature of slack and lots ofusage that we see, but they are doing super proactive outreach into some ofour biggest accounts. Yeah, I mean you guys are in e the unique and wonderfulposition of having probably thousands of nut hundreds of thousands of pqlsproduct qualified leads that are already using the service and it'sabout turning those into different kinds of customers. I would imagineexactly exactly the challenge for us is figuring out. What's the perfect pointin time like what can we use from product insights for any other triggersto get an idea of when it would...

...actually be super helpful andappropriate to reach out to someone without having to do so manually? Yeah?That's something we could. I would love to dive in a little bit later, but sofirst you're running a pretty big team at one of the best companies that weknow of. How did you end up here- and I guess here is San Francisco or the Bayarea? Are you from the bay area and and what was sort of the career journeythat led you to slack in the first place, Shara, say yeah and from Boston,originally a town called Brookline, and that was how my Hab spot career started.So I went to pen like you mentioned immediately after pen. I wanted to beclose to my family for all sorts of reasons and moved back to Boston,started and management, consulting so not an obvious path to sales, but Iwould argue a very accidentally productive path into sales and spenttwo years at this tiny management, consulting firm. It was a Boston,consulting group offshoot, and it was not my calling. I got a lot out of it.I would say in that it was business bootcamp. I was a psych major Undergrad,and this was my introduction to understanding pianols or understandingtrack versus channel strategy, but the customer, the customers we were workingwith were large scale industrial manufactures. So I was literallyspending most of my waking hours and time and energy thinking about how tosell more wastewater pumps in various international markets, and I wassitting alone, I'm I'm an ambover to extrovert, like so somewhere on thatspectrum and certainly not full on introvert, and I was spending most ofmy day alone in an office building financial models or power point decksand a tiny chunk of my day doing this very fun competitive intelligence whenI would just cold call into water treatment plants and figure out howthey make decisions about what they speck, and, oddly enough that was thehighlight of my day and so as as exciting. As that sounds, I think Igot an. I got an Inkland, I didn't know at the time, but I got N Ninkling forrealizing where I drive my energy and almost two years into my role. OfdManagement Consulting, I started looking elsewhere and was going topursue a role at Google, but the thing was it was in the New York office and Iwas not ready to leave the Boston area. So I literally copy and pace the jobdescription with the word Boston next to it and loaand behold, hub spot showsup and a job wrack shows up, which was very appropriate. EPAUSEHAP spot wassuper focused on teaching people how to do Seo Strategy at the time, so theyshowed up at the top of Google and I spent hours on the website justconsuming their endless content, totally developed a crush on hub spot.The company just was super intrigued and then, after seven rounds ofinterviews for various roles, I was you know I would have taken that first jobfor free at help spot. It was like a bunch of geeks in a coworking spacehaving a blast kicking out about marketing and Tach, and these werebrand new worlds for me and totally different from the world. I was in sowow. That was how I found howsuch completely serandipitous. You know,since that was a very lucky right time right, place scenario, and I think youknow you get lucky once and then you hope to make your own luck movingforward, so so yeah I entered in sales randomly. It was very lucky for me thatI had no idea what sales was all about like I had never even really understoodthe reputation of sales or the pressure that comes with it and had I had allthose ideas, in my mind about sales being that intellectual, which was amyth by the way and sales being you know, selling used cars, I might haveshied away from it, and thankfully I came in totally ignorant and realizedmuch to my pleasant surprise that sales is getting paid and rewarded forbasically just chatting with people and mostly not even chatting like askingthem questions about their life story. Remembering details her here and thereand ruthlessly spending time with people that you can help and onlypeople you can help. So I was totally hooked after that. Firstjob, and so did you start in sales at house spot and was your lack of priorsales experience an issue when youwere ramping up or you know, was it sort oflike the Andrew Quinn sales training school at that time that you were sortof sculpted and molded into an incredible salesperson after theconsequence of their onboarding and...

...training program, yeah, the School ofAndrew Quynn was critical and programatically investing that much inonboarding, so that Heps spock could hire more junior folks into sales andteach them the way first. Actually what Quinn did really well is he doesn'teven teach you how to sell. You spend two weeks just learning how tobasically trust that you're an expert in your domain, so that, once you talkto a prospect, you can really tap into a sense of confidence regardless ofyour tenure, regardless of your age and truly believe that you can help themtransform the way that they market their business. So I think it wasbrilliant what he did there. I was hired in yes as a sales trip, not a BDRor anything. I was actually hired into enterprise tales at the time, which wasnot the cool place to be at hobspox. It was an SB ASS company, so I'm like Ohman, I'm an enterprise, but that turned out to be a great opportunity andHallagan when he was interviewing me for my final round, yeah, basically called out all the things that don'texist on my resume seemed impressed enough with my waitressing experienceat a diner in Newton, with kind of a signal that I can sell enough. I kindof I get the commission based structure in the meritocracy thing and then madea bet on aptitude and I'm so so grateful that they did and that they,and then they had all the systems in place to Traine me had actually learnedto sell. So you were there for quite a while over five years. So what was thatjourney like because you joined when the company was relatively small andall the way through IPO, which is rare? What was that experience like yeah? Itwas an unbelievable experience and I'm feeling a lot of it here. It's slack ana different scale today, so at Hobe spot I mean the thing about joining ahigh growth company period to anyone. Wos evaluating multiple job offersright now or figuring out whether to go for a fancy title versus High GrowthCompany that will no doubt grow is that the company grows as fast or evenfaster than an individual Ken. So if you are someone who likes reinventingthemselves and growing like you know, hops fot was a perfect place to do that.So your one, I got to do enterprise sales year too, I joined Pepe Kaputa,who became my mentor his amazing. He built our channel sales program. So Iwas, you know, one of his very first raps joining him and building a newprogram that became forty percent of the company's revenue at the highestltb to calf ratios and my third year. I moved into management and again thanksto Pete's guidance. I coand talk through that later, but moved intomanagement at a young age was thrown into all sorts of fun surprises. Theyare loved it and then my fourth hear agreed WITF Hallegan that I would moveout to the bay area to circle back to your question and scratch. This itchthat I had in part like I wanted to see. You know what is it like in the heartof Silken valley and how can I meet with some of the most influentialcustomers that we have out in the bay area and what is it like to? You know:Go Hiking on weekends, like the personal stuff too, so I moved out lastmaand manage remotely for a year and in my final year, how can actually createI a new role on the product team, which was very new and very different, andthat was director, basically business development, the at marketplace. So thejob was to take what was a okay, very low, NPS customer N, ps marketplace,basically scrap it and then relaunch it from scratch, wow. So let's answer thatquestion really quickly. What was it like? Being an eastcoast native beingfrom Boston going to penn moving to the bay area for all of us that have neveractually lived in the bay area, but GAZ longingly. What are the differences? Sometimes Igaze longingly right back in that direction. Yeah, I would say my personality isdefinitely still an east coast personality for sure you know mybackground. Is You know my family? My parents and sister are Russianimmigrants, which gives you, like a very a time, sacynical east coastpersonality that fits, but the big thing about what I've noticed here inthe bay areas. Everyone moves here, proactively, chasing a dream, so veryfew people from the bay area grew up in the bay area, which means that everyonemade an active decision to move here based on some sort of ambition, and Ilove surrounding myself with those kinds of people. That's you know partof why I ended up going to business school too. As for someone else to handpick those kind of people for me so that I could up my game and stretch andlearn. So one of the best things about being out here is that people are pureoptimists, which is a really good influence on me, and there is amazingwork. Life, perhaps not work like bounds, but amazing worklifeintegration. It's a total gray area...

...between you know what is professionalnetworking and what are friends meeting up and they bleed into each other andto me that makes life feel very rich and fun. Yeah work with integration isprobably a phrase that needs to be popularized in some way, because Ithink the concept of work life balance when we're all connected as becomingmore difficult to attain totally so you went to GSB and then you've joined,slack talk to us about the differences between hub spot and slack. You've nowbeen part of, or are part of sort of, two of the great success stories ofTech and particularly of in a way of like SMB or mid market tech. CertainlyHuve spot has always maintained that I at least from what I know that it wasgoing to serve a specific segment first and foremost and slack seems to haveemerged in a similar way. But what are the similarities and differencesbetween those two companies? Yeah? There are many of each, so I would sayto preface the differences I would say. The Way I ended up at slack was thatslack represented something that I have that was eagerly seeking and pursuing,particularly during my NBA, when I had some time to experiment and think aboutwhat I really wanted and I haven't seen elsewhere in the market, which is arelatable usable product, totally consumer style, in the way that it'sbuilt and designed but squarely an enterprise business model. And youdon't you don't even see that with dropbox. You don't see that with evernote, there's lots of freemium companies, but tack is the only onethat feels super intuitive and you can playfully use it for fantasy footballleague or whatever, but predominantly it is built to serve organizations forproductivity cultural purposes. So that was the holy grail for me and it's areally big difference from the way that hub, Spotam Berge, so how spot emergedas a go to market focused company. First, a CEO has a sales backgroundfrom PTC and he hired a really strong cm Mike Volpi who built you know, aninbound lead machine of Handrazers who are requesting eboks and WebinarsEtceta, and then eventually the product caught up and actually today it is avery sophisticated wide reaching product. One of the reasons for thatwas early days, hup spot made a very smart strategic acquisition of DavidCancels company H, the DRIFTC is company performable and his engineerscame in and basically we wrote the product from scratch and made it reallygood. But for my first two years at have spot, I was kind of selling theconcept of Seo. I was you know we had amazing mindshare and not a lot ofmarket Shar, and we use that mindshare to teach small companies how they cantransform into the digital age and use their websites for Legen vehicles, andwe built up so much good will through purting out so much free content andactually just spending a lot of time with these small business owners on thephone that they ended up, buying the product and thenluckily their bets. Theearly you know, th, the early bets paid off in the the product grew to be quitesophisticated and quite a game changer. But meanwhile flip to slack. You knowwe have a product oriented, founder, whois, brilliant and with a philosophy,background and the product emerged, and I think you know, surpassed manymillions of dollars. Tens of non hundred million dollars without hiringa single salesperson, which meant that product market fit was nailed from thevery geptcoes of beautifully design product. That kind of spoke for itselfand lent itself well to Selfservice, and then eventually, we figure out thatwow. There is an amazing and powerful enterprise application. Here there wasno shortage of fortune, one hundred companies using slack and pockets ofits Org, and so we built both an enterprise product team here in anenterprise sales or can go to market or here to figure out how to meet thosecustomers where they are and by in a way that they're used to buying one ofthe things that I've seen with companies that grow so quickly fromessentially a selfservice basis is that the sales team spend some amount oftime when they're hired kind of mid journey. In a period of I don't know ifit's existential self discovery, but it's it's something where you're trying tofigure out. If this person's quota is five hundred housand dollars a year,fully ramped and we're already a hundred million dollar business gosh,I'm going to need a lot of these people to change the growth drejectory of thebusiness, and you know I've seen that t places like digital Otian, for example.Was that an issue for you all? Or was it such a an underserved category, Thethe enterprise category, that it was just purely incremental? And you neverfelt the pressure of having to contribute massive amounts ofpercentage point to the overall copline growth curve. Good question, I wouldn'tsay it's either: Camp The sales work...

...definitely feels the pressure which Ithink is a healthy thing and and sales people thrive in that environment. Butit's not you know life for death pressure. It's we understand that partof being on board for a high growth company's journey is figuring stuff outas we go so I would say we're not hyper obsessed with tracking the exact Rli ofevery single sales rap. Although we do do that and we tweak our quotas as wego and we tweep. You know all expectations of what someone shouldcarry as the team scales, but there was an absolute need to staff andenterprise sales organ. It was a now brainer and I think that slackin one ofour core attributes at the company, that we look for an employees ashumility and I think, slack the companies. You know individuals leadingthe company are humble enough to know that there was a ingredient of luck toget us where we are today and we can't ride that luck forever. So now we arebeing very intentional about how to seize what could be a limited window ofopportunity as the leader in the market. Hopefully it's ours to lose and makesure we have a seat at the table with customers when they're making reallybig fundamental decisions about how they are going to communicate as anorganization. Like imagine, you know, you' e talking to a company withthousands or tens of thousands or more employees, figuring out how Dublin teamtalks to the San Francisco team, how product and Enge communicate with thePR team for a product lunch. That's a really really big deal so to assumethat that can happen with just a credit card being swiped and one team making.That decision is unrealistic, yeah no you're, absolutely right, and I am immersed myself in my day, job inthe machinations and the trench warfare. That is it's fun too, like you know,when done right, you feel really good about what you're doing like I I meanpersonally, it would be very hard to sell or lead a sales team without theconviction that someone is crazy for not using my product like if I had afamily member starting a business or running a massive business, which Iunfortunately don't right now I would be passionate about them usingslack. You know whether that affected my sales numbers or not yeah. Well, Imean belief in the product is obviously very very hard to fake and a powerfulExcelerat, and then to your other point, I find that enterprise sales is fun andit's highly strategic in a way that when I was running snbm mid marketteams, it wasn't quite a strategic trying to understand all the differentroles and all the different preferences of all the different decision makers.It's exciting. So one of the questions I have is sort of like when you thinkabout the factors that have propelled your career to date and sort of how youended up here. What do you ttribute your success to you know your trackrecord at this point is amazing. You know incredible. Undergrad school, youwere part of an IPO at hub spot. He then went to best business school inthe country and now you're at one of the fastest growing technologycompanies, again, probably on a path to IPO. What factors when you look backand reflect. What do you attribute that success to yeah? One thing I don'tattribute it to is the pedigree of the universities, although I was reallylucky to go to both of those schools, and it helped me surround myself mostlywith a group of friends who challenges me and makes me think creatively anddifferently. I don't think either of those are necessary at all for a careerin tact. I think we have an amazing maritocracy in our world that has verylittle to do with. You know how fancy your test scores are school you went toso those t at would put in kind of like the personal enrichment category morethan professional enrichment, but yeah, I would say one of the thingsthat helpd at least accelerate. My career was a concept that peat Capuda,who I mentioned earlier. It was actually my fourth boss at Hab spot,but I started working with him a year into working there and he introducedthis concept to me of writing down and sharing my personal and professionalgoals. So the back story is when I started working with him. He had me dothe sales assessment. I was at the time the top sales trip had really overlyattached to that reputation. So it took a lot of pride in that reputation, soyou can imagine how fragile my ego was when I get the sales assessment backand there are multiple like big fat red circles around keyattributes. Thatwould predict success in sales. Was this the objective management Torthey've curr? Indeed, it was that Omg, which is how I felt O mg, I'm notdestined for success and Sele, and so many times that you'll get onthe phone with one of them and they'll say yeah. You know, I don't even knowif you should concontinue working with...

...this person. You know like I thoughtthey were pretty. Thank goodness they did not whisperthat and PZ orer. If they did, he ignored it, but basically so we sitdown for a long lunch. You know analyzing my assessment and you knowthere are other big red circles that we want to talk about for now, but one ofThum was orientation toward goals and it turns out successful sales. Peopleare very goal, oriented which is true. I think we have a misnober of beingmoney, oriented or coinoperated, which I I truly don't believe. Although youknow people enjoy being compensated well, I think the true motivation comesfrom setting in achieving goals ambitiously, so I didn't have any goalslaid out. I was thriving in my career so happy to bethere still felt like I would have taken the job for free. So I was likeyeah, I don't know you know and he really pushed me to set of goals. So Icame back to him a week later and said. Okay, I had never considered management,but I think I'd love to run a company one day, so I should probably learn howto manage people, and so you know, as I was twenty for twenty five at the time.I was twenty four. When I set the goal by age. Twenty five within that year, Imoved into the next open management Rolle in his team, as he moved into adirector role, and that was the biggest game changer my career. I manmanagement has been the most fulfilling element of my career for sure and Idon't think I would have gotten there. I certainly wouldn't goten there asquickly if I hadn't written the goal down shared it withnot just pait, with ethers to hold myself accountable to it, and I've nowwoven that into kind of my own professional development practice andhow I encourage my managers to do the same with their directs. How often thisis a highactical question, because I do some of these things myself andI'm always wondering as I do them what everybody else is doing. How often doyou update your goals and that's question? I'm borne all start okay, soI think it depends on what stage of your career you're in, because there'spart of me WHO's. You know that's a hypocrite right now. I tell you why,but as a individual contributor and even with the managers, the cadencethat I aime for is once every six months and we look at short term goals,which is what are you hoping to achieve in the next twelve months, and it'sreally a way to just pause and take yourself out of the day today and thinkcritically about you know. What am I building toward? What's the collectionof experiences I want whate are the nights and weekends projects that Iwant to take on that you know not only help the company but help me and ithelps the manager become an advocate for their direct, and you know, bridgesome connections, Coss, functionally etc. So every six months feels aboutright and it's just kind of a good time for a heart to hart with someone andzoom out and then what I would say is that one shouldn't be regimented aboutit or you block yourself off to the beauty of sarindepity. So right now Idon't have pento paper on a goal. I have a really good sense of where Idrive my energy when I'm happiest what days I leave work and I'm like thatdidn't feel like work at all that feel like play, and what days I feel totallydrained of energy, and so I'm keeping close track of those and then trustingon you know trusting Saren dipity in part to figure out what's next. Ibelieve in that. Where do you derive your when it is a great day where didthe Great Day come from? What were the experiences that made it for? Well,this isn't surprising because I'm in sales and I'm in management, but agreat day is working with people. A particularly great day is workingthrough something tough like a real puzzle. Beit a you know, careerdevelopment conversation with someone. That's not straightforward or workingthrough a hairy enterprise deal and rainstorming in a way that is helpfulto someone else, and you know I get the secondary benefit of a psychologicalgame like that's just fun, so that's a really great day. The other thing thatmakes a day great for me and I think, is part of this role- is variety sobeing out in the field being in meetings. You know, building a trainingwhatever it might be, just having intellectual variety and even varietyof settings keeps the day flying by for me. Do you batch your day in anyparticular way? One of the places where I continue to struggle is sort oftransitioning from transactional work to kind of contemplative work or orthoughtful work. Do you program Your Dana Specific Way to maximize yourimpact across different types of work, not as much as I should so. I thinkyou've had John Barris on the podcast before, and he led an amazing trainingfor our sales reps recently, where he was talking about the burden ofcognitive. Switching costs like he was saying it in terms of advocating forprospecting a one person at of time, so you're really living and breathingtheir world and thinking about them, rather than switching it up. But thatreally resonated with me. There is a...

...cost to switching settings toofrequently, and so what I find is early in the mornings. My brain is supersharp. So if I want to write a thoughtful note in slack or an externalemail to someone, I often do that early in the morning and then I usually spendyou know two nights. Two Week nights a week late at the office just catchingup on stuff that I can't like the big strategic things that you can't thinkabout without a couple hours carved out to think about them or if I'm inpersona lot of the managers and teams I work with are remote. So if I'm inToronto, meeting with one of the managers will schedule two hours for alieboarding session, and I find that to be a superproductive use of time. Butthe honest answers know not nearly as much as I should. So. Thank you forthat reminder of sure we had Dan pink on the show andh. He has a book about perfect timing, and his point is that for people thatare larks, which are early morning, people that you need to maximize sortof your thoughtfulness work early in the morning because by right around nowon the east coast, it's approaching five PM, and this is sadly given my agewhen I turn into a Pumpkin, and so I have to sort of do hardcore stuff inthe morning, or else I become unpodoce sound great you sound, energetic asever. Well, this was all you know, projectionof my insecurity, so I could receive more posite foodback, so I'm here foryou Sam. Thank you Danny one of the things. Frankly, just in a spirit ofopenness, we had a listener comment that you know it feels like white manafter white man on the on the sales hacker podcast, and we don't want it tobe like that, and I certainly don't want it to be like that. There aren'tmany female sales leaders, and so you know talking to somebody like yourself,who is a female sales leader and a future CEO. Why do you think that isand what should we? What should I like? What should the world do to change that?Should we change it? I'm just curious on Yoursel yeah. I think it's awesomethat you are already thinking about that and being proactive about it andyou're totally right. There aren't nearly as many female sales leaders asthere could be ors there should be, but luckily that is already changing andwith each one of us that decides to pursue the leadership path, it makes iteasier for other people to see an example of what that could look likeand do the same. So I do believe that is changing and I do have a long listof amazing women who are in impressive sales leadership rules who cannonshould be guests on this podcast hol so and some of them Il give you a one wayto change this. So sequoia was very proactive about this and last nightJamie bought one of the lead talent, partner and her colleague, Jenny hosteda dinner in Jamie's home for female sales leaders and not just O sepoitportfolio companies, but literally just creating community around us, and itwas super simple though it was, you know it was. It was a beautiful dinnerand we had a very raw and real conversation and out of that emerged inamazing community of women who are going to hold ourselves accountable todoing whatever it is that we were talking through wanting to achieve andwho can learn from each other. And so you know Jamie happened to be a femaleleader in the taxt space and at a a premier investment firm. But I thinkthat that kind of strategy is possible for anyone. You know if you want tomeet great female sales leaders ore you want to meet other underrepresentedminorities in the go to market world, create the group that you want to bepart of and bring us all together, and we will absolutely relish that or justtaped into anyone. You know reach out to me, and this is an open, ended, aoffer to anyone. WHO's listening, reach out to me and say Danny who are five.Women are who are five people who are't obvious? You know who don't fit thestereotypical mold who I should meet, and I will absolutely give you a listof those people and they'll be happy to grab coffee with you. So it's changingand, as my one of my mentors anry Monday is, is aamazing woman, most recently as Supof opposit at Zendes, but has had allsorts of roles and sales HR product. She likes to say that it's a team sport.So you know all of us women who are progressing in our careers or bringingeveryone else up with us and that's part of the fun so yeah it's changingand I'm feeling very, very optimistic, and I'm also very grateful for my malementors. You know I've. I've been mentioning a lot of men who have helpedme in the journey and my boss, now Kevin Egan and our globalist PP ofsales and success. Bob Are incredible. Allies and champions to themselves havebuilt to really diverse work, so I'm feeling good about it. Good. Is there anything? You know youmentioned some of the things that sort of women can do themselves start. Anetworking group put yourself at the...

...center of the group that you're seekingto advocate for is there anything that we should do. I should do eithertactically in the interview process or in the hiring process. Other specificconsiderations I should be mindful of as I'm collaborating with partners ofall different shapes and sizes and andgenders absolutely there's lots ofstuff. You can do. I would say the earliest stage of the recruiting funnela tool called texteol is phenomenal. We use it here at slack and basically,what it does is help you uncover bias in the way that even a job descriptionis written. So, if you want to say, I want to open up the aperture andincrease the pipeline of female candidates. Are you name hat? You know,filmin the blank candidates applying to a role Textta will literally help youdo that through NLP and machine learning, Algorithms. That is one. Soyou know get access to a broader pool. The other thing is, we rely on ournetworks quite a bit to build our teams, and I think, that's very natural andit's great in many ways, but what happens is historically the people whohave led sales orgs are men, and so most of the people in your network areprobably been a look and sound somewhat similar to Onenother d and not even youknow, gender and race. theside many will have come from the same companies.That's how you met so, I think, being aware of seeking out diversity ofthought. Amongst other diversity, factors is really important becauseit'll help you make better decisions that will help people challenge youwhen you want to have debate, and it will help you from kind of recreatingthe same playbook over and over or falling into traps. So that's one part,and I think, being vocal about who you want to hire would be great. You knowso asking someone who are some absolute rock star women in your network, who Ishould be talking to whether Ey'r looking for a job or not and just sitdown and have coffee with them and bring them into your network, and thatwill snowball and then lastly, you know the the sequoia event for women leaderswas amazing and there's something really special about having just womenaround the table and some vulnerability. That comes with that that we're allwilling to dive into, but I think it is equally, if not more powerful, to havea fully diverse group at the table when you're talking about stuff like this.So I love your question because it means you, as as a male, want to bringwomen into the conversation. I think some of the most impactfulconversations I've been part of that. If yoelded important results includenot just whatever the minority group is in that and that role well, they youfor the advice and we will certainly put it to good use. We are nearing theend of our time together, Danny. So this has been amazing. We want to leaveroom or for sort of two US things. One of them is we like to pay it forwardand talk about a few people. You've mentioned a bunch, but people that weshould know about that. Have helped you navigate your career, played a mentorrole or just had a big influence. So who are some folks that we should beaware of that have had a big emfe yeah? I I mentioned a handful of them. I'mreally big on choosing different sounding boards for different topics.My most frequent and influential sounding board by far is my husband,Jake who's, an investor, an emerchant's capital, amazing firm, and he happensto be an amazing partner and human. So I go to him usually first, when I'mworking through any sort of big decisions, or I want to role, play adifficult conversation whatever it is other people who have helped me somehave come from within the orgs, so within the org you know, Pete Helpe mewrite down goals. He also taught me how to sell and really pushed me like to anuncomfortable degree, which I love. I think true. Mentorship is all aboutpushing people to truly growa and be comfortably uncomfortable and whateverthey're working on, and I would say that Kevin Egan, my current boss orvpof sales at slack, who is amazing, pushes me quite a bit so the way thatour one I one sound is based Olly in Al all throughout an idea out there andthen he'll ask a really tough question that completely challenges whatever itis, that I've put on the table and challenges me to think big and beopinionated about it. So he'll say you know: you're standing in front ofStuwart butterfield right now ar you're standing in front of all of StanfordBusiness School right now. What is slack story on our decision to do Xyz,and why and what that teaches me and what holds me accountable to is knowingmy numbers, downpat and understanding how someone else could poke holes,anticipating how someone could pokhols my argument and engaging in healthydebate as a way to grow and make good decisions and Bob R sp of globaloperates in exactly the same way. So those are some at hub spot. So in salesis, it is peak but for product strategy, Brad who's, now the chief strategyofficer, but he was VPO product when I worked under him, was reallyinstrumental and, as was Brian Hallegan,...

...the CEOL in challenging me to thinkabout the long term product strategy of an organization because of one of thetough things about building career and sales, particularly early days when itwas SNDB sales that Hab spot. Is you start thinking in short term increments?You get this quick gratification from quick winds that are very validating,but product strategy and company strategy is much more long termoriented. So for someone you know if anyones seeking out a sounding board tothink about what should the long term big picture strategy of my company beand what are some hard decisions I'm going to make like what am I going tosay no to in that process and have spots said no to enterprise early days,I would say certainly bad coffee and the founders of Hep Spot R. Great atthat. That's amazing- and it's just awesome to hear about people that havea really positive influence on other people, so we tip our hats to them.What's Your Life Mantra, I'm sure you have a few, and you mentioned writingdown personal goals. But what are some other life Montes that you have yeahteam sport was a life Montre. I was meeting with one of my business schoolprofessors yesterday huggy row, and he was talking about this stage of life-is all about flexing your helping muscle, not your achievement muscle,and I really like that as a professional mantra, because the healpmuscle brings you a whole lot further than the rat race of the achievement,muscle an obsession with numbers at all costs. So I guess that would lead me toa bigger life mantra is Karma, is real. The world is small, andcareers are very very long. So you know winning at all. Costs is not worth it.Relationships are being a good person. Cultivating good relationships for thelong term is always the right way to operate and it will pay off manymanyfold, because people remember the way that you interacted with them andbecause karmos is a real and true force. I completely agree Danny if people eelistening to this have been inspired and want to reach out to you, or maybethey want to apply for a job. At's slack. Can they and you have apreferred communication channel, whether that's email linked in twitter?How can people reach you if you're open to it? Yes, yes, yes, we are hiring.Yes, please reach out you maybe a great fit for my team or one of my colleguesteams, or maybe you just want to you know you want a sounding board rightnow to think through your next career decision. I would love to talk to you.My favorite channel for communication is something called slack, but ifYouare, not a guest user in our slack account, then I would say you knowbreach Haut to me on Linkein and write a blurb and we'll find a way to youknow to hop on the phone or meet up in person. That sounds wonderful, Danny.Thank you. So much congrats on all your success. We're going to continue tofollow your career as you grow and congrats o' picking a bunch of greatcompanies. We all love slack. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Sam Te folks, it's Sam Jacobs, that was agreat interview with Danny Hirtsburg she's, seems very calm and very poisedand professional about how she manages her clear. She seems, like she'd, be agreat manager and it's clearly a testament to the success that she's hadboth a hub spot and now it's flack and she said a number of things that Ithink are bar repeating and are worthy of the marking on one of them. Thebiggest one, I think, is writing down your personal goals, both Danny and Iand others that have worked. For me have taken this objective managementgroup, omg assessment and one of the things they clearly talk about is: Canyou define and articulate what your short and long term professional goalsare, and can you be specific, that's something that John Berros often talksabout as well. Can you produce the document that has your goals, Dannytalks about doing it every six months, we're all somewhat inconsistent when itcomes to that, I think, but if you can write down your goals and figure outwhere you want to be in a year where you want to be in three years and fiveyears, I think that's important the thing that I will tell you from havingdone this for now, six or seven years they have to be smart goals with all ofthe things that that acronym stands. Where you can't just say, I want to beworth twenty million dollars in a year if it's not realistic in any way, ifyou can't measure it and if you're overly focused on outcomes versusinputs, if you're focused on things that you can't control versus what youcan control over the course of your day, I think you're defeating the purposeright, ing the Goll. These are mistakes that I've personally made. So that'skind of thing number one thing number two is: If you're trying to developadvocacy for a particular group Danning, I talked about what can we do as salesprofessionals to cultivate and promote sales leadership among women and shetalked about forming groups and putting yourself at the centere of the groupthat you want to advocate, for, I think, that's great advice. One of thespecific things that she mentioned is a company called Textteo which can gothrough your job descriptions and redeal unconscious cognitive bias, anunconscious bias that might be manifesting itself through choices ofwords that you're using or phrasing...

...that you're using. So can you changeyour job description to remove the gender bias and sort of present a moreneutral stance so that you can appeal to a wider of professionals? I thinkthat that is our goal, so that has been Sam's corner and Danny elso mentioned.If you want to reach out to her, you can overwinkdin. Lastly, we want tothank our sponsors. You know who or sponsors are. They are outreach and aircall outreach. He is your customer engagement platform that helpseffectively and efficiently engage prospects, to drive more Pipelanin,close, more deals and air call is your advance call center software completebusiness phone and contact center, one hundred percent natively integratedinto NYCRM. Lastly, lastly, if you want to find me you can you can reach manlinked in at Lengthincom, slash the word in IM, Sam f Jacobs, and I willtry O to respond. I will respond and if you want to share the content thatyou've heard here on the podcast, please do so, please sure, live belief.Please tell all your friends, we o appreciate the feedback. We appreciatethe Patronang. An e've got a lot more new content, coming up an new types ofcontent as well. Finally, happy Thanksgiving thanks for listening tothe sale, sacker, podcast and I'll see you next time.

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