The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 4 years ago

35: How Goal Setting Can Change Your Career with Dannie Herzberg, Sales Director, Slack

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This week on the Sales Hacker podcast, we interview Dannie Herzberg, Head of Mid-Market Sales at Slack.

Dannie is one of the top sales leaders in the country having spent time helping Hubspot IPO over 5+ years and then moving on to Slack where she leads all SMB, Mid-Market, and Sales Development efforts for the US and Canada. Check it out! 

One, two, one three. Quote. Hey folks, it's Sam Jacobs. Welcome to the sales hacker podcast. I am your host. I am the founder of the New York revenue collective. I think we're going to change the name to revenue collective because we've got so many new chapter starting London, Denver, Boston, hopefully Toronto. So that's me. I'm also the chief Revenue Officer of the first behavioral operating system started by behaviors. That is the name of the company. We've got an amazing show today. We've got Danny Hertzberg, who runs SMB and mid market and sales development for slack, one of the fastest growing companies in the country that we all know about. We all use, or at least I do, every day, and Danny has an incredible background and incredible insights on managing her career and how to achieve what you want when some of it starts with writing down personal goals, which we'll talk about in the show. Now we want to thank, as usual, our sponsors. Nothing is possible without the wonderful patronage of two important companies. Are Call and outreach. So air call, it's a phone system. It's designed for the modern sales team. If you're running an antiquated sales team, are call is not for you. If you're running modern sales team, then air call might be for you. They seamlessly integrate into your crm, eliminating data and try for your reps and providing you with greater visibility into your team's performance through advanced reporting. When it's time to scale, you can add new lines in minutes and you can use in call coaching to reduce ramp time for your reps. visit are called out. I owe forward slash sales hacker to see why Uber Dune and Brad Street, pipe drive and thousands of others trust are call for the most critical sales conversations. Our second sponsor is outreached out I oh, the leading sales engagement platform. At reach triples the productivity of sales teams and empowers them to drive predictable and measurable revenue growth by prioritizing the right activities and scaling customer engagement with intelligent automation. Outreach makes customer facing teams more effective and approves his ability into what really drives results. So the website. There's outreached out IO. Forward sales hacker that is outreached io forward slash sales hacker. Finally, we want to thank some of the people that have been writing in. Jason Demato, Jack Davis, Jordan Lavici, Rohit Shara, Olga Burco, Matthew Cotter, Josh Cordio and grand power, who is also a university of Virginia Lungo, who's thank you for listening. Thank you for the feedback. We've got a lot of great stuff coming up on the show. If you're listening to this today, it's November twenty, I believe, and happy Thanksgiving. It's an important holiday. Make sure you say you love your loved ones, give everybody a hug that is that you're related to and that it's appropriate to do so. Don't lend her too long, because creepylong hugs are weird, but generally, give thanks for all that you have. I hope you have something and somebody share this with. So this is a rambling, an absurd intro and it's time to listen to the important thing, which is the interview with Danny Hertzberg. So, without further ado, let's listen to Danny. Hey, everybody, it's Sam j gibbs. Welcome to the sales hacker podcast. Today we've got one of the brightest, most promising sales leaders in the country on the show and she's also representing one of the fastest grunt companies that I think many of us use in our day to day lives. So we're incredibly excited to have Danny Hurtzberg on the show. Danny is the head of mid market sales at slack and she's overseeing slacks mid market S and B and sales development organizations across the US. In Canada she's also go to market advisor for early stage SASS companies. Prior to slack, she spent over five years at hub spot, where she participated in the company's growth from eighty to one twelve hundred employees and through its IPO. And at hub spot she held roles in enterprise sales, sales management and most recently as director of product she is a smart person who helds a bea from the University of Pennsylvania and an NBA from the Stanford Graduate School of business. So, Danny, were so excited to have you on the show. Welcome to the show. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here, as I was just mentioning before we hit record. The Sales Org at slack is a big, big fan of sales hacker podcast, so we constantly see old episodes getting sent around in various slack channels. So it's an honor to be here. Well, the honor is ours, but thank you for the positive feedback and we will file it away. Let's let's learn a little bit more about you as a human being before we dive into sort of the work itself and some of your observations on business. So first we like to start with this thing that we call a baseball card. So I was introduced to you as Danny. Is that your full name? Tell us your full name. Oh, good question. If my full name is Danielle, no, Middle Name Hertzberg, and I go by Danny, spelled in a funny way because my sister, who's seven years older than me, said she would only write my name in bubble letters on my three ring binder in the first grade if I rebranded as Danny. And so for anyone else who's younger sibling, you know how much power the older sibling has and it's s stuck. There you go.

So it's Danielle officially, but Danny to everybody in the world exactly. Our Director of sales at slack. We know. I think we know about slack. Always interesting to hear sort of like the elevator pitch or the short description from from the person that works with the company. So, in your words, what do you think slack does? Yeah, so I won't give you the official elevator pitch or one liner. I think the general concept is that we're a collaboration hub, but to me it's basically one place virtually where a company's culture and knowledge base lives. So it's a way for teams to be able to align in a very productive and fun way around different goals and execute on those really efficiently, very very powerful stuff. Roughly, I'm sure you can't give us any kind of forward looking guidance or anything like that, but what's the Rough Revenue Range of slack? Sure, I think what we've most recently stated publicly is that we are above two hundred million and revenue and, as you mentioned before, been one of the fastest growing SASS companies ever. Wow, and then your team specifically. So you are running SMB and mid market sales, is that right? And the Sales Development Organization. So tell us about all of the different roles on your team and then how big is the team that you're overseeing? Yeah, absolutely so. Right now the teams about forty. So there's four managers and then different Nice seas working on their teams. And it's changed actually since I joined, which is, you know, the nature of a high growth company or start up. So when I joined I was leading SNB and str and. At the time, SMB was one to five hundred employee companies and str was just getting going to figure out what do we do with this massive database of free teams in order to engage people who actually would love a human to reach out to them but we haven't yet, and so we ran that playbook from my first couple months. And then what we realized was the Roy of having human proactively outreach to someone at a company was much, much higher as we worked with larger companies who basically need someone from slack to get all the right people around the table to make a big decision about how they're going to collaborate across the company, like where are all calms going to happen? Is a casual decision early days and you might pick up slack organically, but as soon as a company hits right around the fifty employee mark, it becomes much bigger conversation and much more sophisticated security questions. So what we decided to do is actually move the sales or my team up market and turn the SMB team into a mid market org that focuses on to fifty to a thousand employee companies. And we still field inquiries from SMB companies and in fact, you know, lots of prominent BC firms, PE firms, hedge funds all fall into a lower kind of head count but very influential group. So what we've done is we have the sales development reps reacting to anyone who raises their hand and just wants some human support there and answering questions or generating an invoice and the full quotea carrying sales reps are focused more at market on some of the more sophisticated endeavors, and so in some sense the sales development team is are they closing those inbound leads? Essentially. Yeah, so there's a sales DEV team and I would say that umbrella covers sales development reps who focus on inbound. So if an inbound hand raiser comes in, they will promptly respond, they'll figure out what they're looking for, they'll get some context, they'll set them up with an account exact who can help them more and they'll handle the inbound from some of those small companies. They're not measured or comped on upselling them by any means, but they're basically they are to provide some handholding, support and answer questions. And then we have a business development team who's more doing proactive outreach. So we have, like I mentioned earlier, this massive database of companies who have little pockets of teams using slack but not nearly the whole company, and the Dr Team will very thoughtfully and personally reach out to those folks and figure out if and how they can help and whether there's an opportunity to break down some of the silos within the ORG and have a broader conversation about standardizing on slack across a whole company. So they're not doing traditional cold outreach like you might see it other companies, given the premium nature of slack and lots of usage that we see, but they are doing super proactive outreach into some of our biggest accounts. Yeah, I mean you guys are in the unique and wonderful position of having probably thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of pql's product qualified leads that are already using the service, and it's about turning those into different kinds of customers. Would imagine exactly exactly the challenge for us is figuring out what's the perfect point in time like? What can we use from product insights for any other...

...triggers to get an idea of when it would actually be super helpful and appropriate to reach out to someone without having to do so manually? Yeah, that's something we could I would love to dive in a little bit later. But so first you're running a pretty big team at one of the best companies that we know of. How did you end up here, and I guess here is San Francisco or the bay area. Are you from the bay area and and what was sort of the career journey that led you to slack in the first place? Share? So, yeah, I'm from Boston, originally a town called Brookline, and that was how my hup spot career started. So I went to pen like you mentioned. Immediately after pen I wanted to be close to my family. For all sorts of reasons and moved back to Boston started and management consulting. So not an obvious path to sales, but I would argue, a very accidentally productive path into sales and spent two years at this tiny management consulting firm. It was a Boston consulting group offshoot and it was not my calling. I got a lot out of it, I would say, and that it was business boot camp. I was a psych major Undergrad and this was my introduction to understanding pianos or understanding direct versus channel strategy. But the customer, the customers we were working with, were large scale industrial manufacturers. So I was literally spending most of my waking hours and time and energy thinking about how to sell more wastewater pumps in various international markets. And I was sitting alone. I'm I'm an ambivert to extrovert like, so somewhere on that spectrum and certainly not full on introvert. And I was spending most of my day alone in an office building financial models or powerpoint decks and a tiny chunk of my day doing this very fun competitive intelligence when I would just cold call into water treatment plants and figure out how they make decisions about what they speck and oddly enough, that was the highlight of my day. And so, as as exciting as that sounds, I think I got an I got an inkling. I didn't know at the time that I got an inkling for realizing where I drive my energy. And almost two years into my role and management consulting, I started looking elsewhere and was going to pursue a role at Google, but the thing was it was in the New York office and I was not ready to leave the Boston area. So I literally copy and paste the job description with the word Boston next to it and lo and behold, hub spot shows up and a job break shows up, which was very appropriate because up spot was super focused on teaching people how to do Seo Strategy at the time. So they showed up at the top of Google and I spent hours on the website just consuming their endless content. Totally developed a crush on hub spot. The company just was super intrigued and then, after seven rounds of interviews for various roles, I was you know, I would have taken that first job for free at up spot. It was like a bunch of geeks in a coworking space, having a blast peeking out about marketing and tech, and these were brand new worlds for me and totally different from the world I was in. So wow, that was the how I found how such completely serendipitous, you know sent that was a very lucky, right time, right place scenario and I think you know you get lucky once and then you hope to make your own luck moving forward. So so yeah, I entered in sales randomly. It was very lucky for me that I had no idea what sales was all about, like they had never even really understood the reputation of sales or the pressure that comes with it. And had I had all those ideas in my mind about sales being not intellectual, which is a myth by the way, and sales being, you know, selling used cars, I might have shied away from it. And thankfully I came in totally ignorant and realized, much to my pleasant surprise, that sales is getting paid and rewarded for basically just chatting with people, and mostly not even chatting, like asking them questions about their life story, remembering details here and there and ruthlessly spending time with people that you can help. And only people you can help. So I was totally hooked after that first job. And so did you start in sales at hub spot and was your lack of prior sales experience an issue when you were ramping up or, you know, was it sort of like the Andrew Quinn sales training school at that time that you were sort of sculpted and molded into an incredible salesperson after the consequence of their onboarding and training program Yeah, the School of Andrew Quinn was critical and programmatically investing...

...that much in on boarding so that hub spot could hire more junior folks into sales and teach them the way first. Actually, what Quinn did really well is he doesn't even teach you how to sell. You spent two weeks just learning how to basically trust that you're an expert in your domains so that once you talk to a prospect, you can really tap into a sense of confidence, regardless of your tenure, regardless of your age, and truly believe that you can help them transform the way that they market their business. So I think it was brilliant what he did there. I was hired in yes as a sales up, not a BEDR or anything. I was actually hired into enterprise sales at the time, which was not the cool place to be at hubs box. It was an s and B Sass Company, so I'm like, Oh man, I'm an enterprise but that turned out to be a great opportunity and Halligan, when he was interviewing me for my final round, yeah, basically called out all the things that don't exist on my resume. Seemed impressed enough with my waitressing experience at a diner in Newton with kind of a signal that I can sell enough, I kind of I get the commission based structure and the meritocracy thing and then made a bet on aptitude and I'm so, so grateful that they did and that they and then they had all those systems in place to trade me had actually learned to sell. So you were there for quite a while, over five years. So what was that journey like, because you joined when the company was relatively small and all the way through Ipoh, which is rare. What was that experience like? Yeah, it was an unbelievable experience and I'm feeling a lot of it here at slack at a different scale today. So at hub spot. I mean the thing about joining a high growth company period to anyone's evaluating multiple job offers right now or figuring out whether to go for a fancy title versus a High Growth Company that will no doubt grow, is that the company grows as fast, or even faster than an individual can. So if you are someone who likes reinventing themselves and growing, like you know, hubs fought was a perfect place to do that. So your one. I got to do enterprise sales. Year two I joined Pete Kapuda, who became my mentor. He's an amazing he built our channel sales program so I was, you know, one of his very first reps, joining him and building a new program that became forty percent of the company's revenue at the highest LTB tocack ratios. And my third year I moved into management, and again thanks to Pete's guidance. I could talk through that later, but moved into manage and, at a young age, was thrown into all sorts of fun surprises. They are loved it. And then my fourth year, agreed with Halligan that I would move out to the bay area. To Circle back to your question and scratch this itch that I had in part, like I wanted to see. You know, what is it like in the heart of silk and valley and how can I meet with some of the most influential customers that we have out in the bay area? And what is it like to, you know, go hiking on weekends? Like the personal stuff too. So I moved out west man and managed remotely for a year and in my final year, how can actually created a new role on the product team which was very new and very different, and that was director, basically business development the APP market place. So the job was to take what was a okay, very low NPS customer and PS market place, basically scrap it and then relaunch it from scratch. Wow. So let's answer that question really quickly. What was it like being an east coast native, being from Boston, going to pain moving to the bay area? For All of us that have never actually lived in the bay area but gaze longingly out, what are the differences? Sometimes I gaze longingly right back in that direction. Yeah, I would say my personality is definitely still an east coast person. Finality, for sure. You know my background is. You know my family, my parents and sister are Russian immigrants, which gives you like a very at times cynical east coast personality. That fits. But the big thing about what I've noticed here in the bay areas everyone moves here proactively chasing a dream. So very few people from the bay area grew up in the bay area, which means that everyone made an active decision to move here based on some sort of ambition, and I love surrounding myself with those kinds of people. That's, you know, part of why I ended up going to business school too was for someone else to hand pick those kind of people for me so that I could up my game and stretch and learn. So one of the best things about being out here is that people are pure optimists, which is a really good influence on me. And there is amazing work life, perhaps not worklife bounce, but amazing worklife integration. It's a total gray...

...area between, you know, what is professional networking and what are friends meeting up, and they bleed into each other and to me that makes life feel very rich and fun. Yeah, worklife integration is probably a phrase that needs to be popularized in some way, because I think the concept of worklife balance when we're all connected, is becoming more difficult to attain totally. So you went to GSB and then you've joined slack. Talk to us about the differences between hub spot and slack. You've now been part of, or are part of, sort of two of the great success stories of Tech and particularly of in a way, of like SMB or mid market tech. Certainly, hub spot has always maintained that it at least from what I know, that it was going to serve a specific segment first and foremost, and slack seems to have emerged in a similar way. But what are the similarities and differences between those two companies? Yeah, there are many of each. So I would say to preface the differences, I would say the way I ended up at slack was that slack represented something that I have that was eagerly seeking and pursuing, particularly during my Mba when I had some time to experiment and think about what I really wanted and I haven't seen elsewhere in the market, which is a relatable, usable product, totally consumer style in the way that it's built and designed, but squarely an enterprise business model. And you don't you don't even see that with dropbox. You don't see that with ever. Note there's lots of fremium companies, but slack is the only one that feels super intuitive and you can playfully use it for fantasy football league or whatever, but predominantly it is built to serve organizations for productivity and cultural purposes. So that was the holy grail for me and it's a really big difference from the way that hub spot emerge. So hub spot emerged as a go to market focused company. First a CEO has a sales background from PTC and he hired a really strong CMO, Mi Volbe, who built, you know, an inbound lead machine of hand raisers who are requesting ebooks and webinars etc. And then eventually the product caught up and actually today it is a very sophisticated, wide reaching product. One of the reasons for that was early days up spot made a very smart and strategic acquisition of David Cancel's company. That the drift CEO's company, performable and his engineers came in and basically we wrote the product from scratch and made it really good. But for my first two years a hub spot I was kind of selling the concept of Seo. I was, you know, we had amazing mind share and not a lot of market share and we use that mind share to teach small companies how they can transform into the digital age and use their websites for Leagen vehicles. And we built up so much goodwill through putting out so much free content and actually just spending a lot of time with these small business owners on the phone that they ended up buying the product and then, luckily, their bets the early you know, the early bets paid off in the the product grew to be quite sophisticated and quite a game changer. But meanwhile, flip to slack. You know, we have a product oriented founder who's brilliant and with a philosophy background, and the product emerged and, I think you know, surpassed many millions of dollars, tens if not hundred million dollars, without hiring a single salesperson, which meant that product market fit was nailed from the very Geckos, a beautifully designed product that kind of spoke for itself and lent itself well to self service. And then eventually we figured out that wow, there is an amazing and powerful enterprise application here. There was no shortage of fortune. One hundred companies using slack and pockets of its Org, and so we built both an enterprise product team here in an enterprise sales or can go to market work here to figure out how to meet those customers where they are and buy in a way that they're used to buying. One of the things that I've seen with companies that grow so quickly from essentially a self service basis is that the sales team spends some amount of time when they're hired, kind of mid journey, in a period of I don't know if it's existential selfdiscovery, but it's it's something where you're trying to figure out if this person's quota is five hundred thou a year fully ramped and we're already a hundred million dollar business. Gosh, I'm going to need a lot of these people to change the growth trajectory of the business and you know, I've seen that at places like digitalotion, for example. Was that an issue for you all, or was it such an underserved category, The the enterprise category, that it was just purely incremental and you never felt the pressure of having to contribute math? So amounts of percentage point to the overall compline growth curve? Good question. I wouldn't say it's either camp. The...

...sales work definitely feels the pressure, which I think is a healthy thing and and sales people thrive in that environment. But it's not, you know, life or death pressure. It's we understand that part of being on board for a high growth company's journey is figuring stuff out as we go. So I would say we're not hyper obsessed with tracking the exact Roy of every single sales rep although we do do that, and we tweak our quotas as we go and we tweet, you know, all expectations of what someone should carry as the team scales. But there was an absolute need to staff and enterprise sales organ it was a no brainer. And I think that slack, you know, one of our core attributes at the company that we look for and employees as humility, and I think slack the company's you know, the individuals leading the company or humble enough to know that there was a ingredient of luck to get us where we are today and we can't ride that luck forever. So now we are being very intentional about how to seize what could be a limited window of opportunity as the leader in the market. Hopefully it's our as to lose and make sure we have a seat at the table with customers when they're making really big, fundamental decisions about how they are going to communicate as an organization. Like imagine, you know, you talking to a company with thousands or tens of thousands or more employees, figuring out how Dublin team talks to the San Francisco team, how product an edge communicate with the PR team for a product lunch. That's a really, really big deal. So to assume that that can happen with just a credit card being swiped and one team making that decision is unrealistic. Yeah, now, you're absolutely right and I am immersed myself in my day job in the machinations and the trench warfare. That is compressive. It's fun too, like you know, when done right, you feel really good about what you're doing. Like I I mean personally, it would be very hard to sell or lead a sales team without the conviction that someone is crazy for not using my product. Like if I had a family member starting a business or running a massive business, which I unfortunately don't right now, I would be passionate about them using slack. You know, whether that affected my sales numbers or not. Yeah, well, I mean belief in the product is obviously very, very hard to fake in a powerful accelerant. And then to your other point, I find that enterprise sales is fun and it's highly strategic in a way that when I was running us and Bam in market teams it wasn't quite a strategic trying to understand all of the different roles and all the different preferences of all the different decision makers. It's exciting. So one of the questions I have have is sort of like, when you think about the factors that have propelled your career to date and sort of how you ended up here, what do you attribute your success to? You know, your track record at this point is amazing. You know, incredible Undergrad School, you were part of an Ipoh at hub spot. He then went to best business school in the country and now you're at one of the fastest growing technology companies, again, probably on a path to Ipoh. What factors, when you look back and reflect, what do you attribute that success to? Yeah, well, one thing I don't attribute it to is the pedigree of the universities, although I was really lucky to go to both of those schools. And it helped me surround myself mostly with a group of friends who challenges me and makes me think creatively and differently. I don't think either of those are necessary at all for a career in TAC I think we have an amazing meritocracy in our world. That has very little to do with you know how fancy your test scores are school you went to. So those I would put in kind of like the personal enrichment category more than professional enrichment. But yeah, I would say one of the things that helped at least accelerate my career was a concept that Pete Kaputa, who I mentioned earlier. It was actually my fourth boss that help spot, but I started working with him a year and to working there and he introduce this concept to me of writing down and sharing my personal and professional goals. So the backstory is when I started working with him, he had me do the sales assessment. I was at the time the top sales up and really overly attached to that reputation. So took a lot of pride in that reputation. So you can imagine how fragile my ego was when I get the sales assessment back and there are multiple, like big fat red circles around key attributes that would predict success in sales. Was this the objective management for a Dave curr? Indeed it was the OMG, which is how I felt. Oh Mg, I'm not destined for success in sales. And so many times that you'll get on the phone with one of them and they'll say, yeah, you know, I don't even know. I if you should continue working with this person or like,...

I thought they were pretty good. Thank goodness they did not whisper that and Piz here, or if they did you have ignored it. But basically, so we sit down for a long lunch, you know, analyzing my assessment, and you know there are other big red circles that we would talk about for now. But one of them was orientatition toward goals. And it turns out successful salespeople are very goal oriented, which is true. I think we have a misnomer of being money oriented or quite operated, which I truly don't believe, although you know, people enjoy being compensated. Well, I think the true motivation comes from setting an achieving goals ambitiously. So I didn't have any goals laid out. I was thriving in my career, so happy to be there. are still felt like I would have taken the job for free. So I was like yeah, I don't know, you know, and he really pushed me to set a goal. So I came back to him a week later and said, okay, I'd never considered management, but I think I'd love to run a company one day, so I should probably learn how to manage people. And so, you know, as I was two thousand four hundred and twenty five at the time, I was twenty four when I set the goal. By Age Twenty Five, within that year I moved into the next open management role in his team as he moved into a director role, and that was the biggest game changer in my career. I mean management has been the most fulfilling element of my career for sure, and I don't think I would have gotten there, I certainly wouldn't gotten there as quickly, if I hadn't written the goal down, shared it with not just Pete, with others to hold myself accountable to it, and I've now woven that into kind of my own professional development practice and how I encourage my managers to do the same with their directs. How often? This is a hard article question because I do some of these things myself and I'm always wondering as I do them, what everybody else is doing. How often do you update your goals? And that's question number one. I'll start. Okay, so I think it depends on what stage of your career you're in, because there's part of me who's you know, that's a hypocrite. Right now I'll tell you why. But as a individual contributor and even with the managers, the cadence that I aimed for is once every six months and we look at short term goals, which is, what are you hoping to achieve in the next twelve months, and it's really a way to just pause and take yourself out of the daytoday and think critically about, you know, what am I building toward? What's the collection of experiences I want? What are the nights and weekends projects that I want to take on that, you know, not only help the company but help me and it helps the manager become an advocate for their direct and, you know, bridge some connections, cross functionally, etc. So every six months feels about right and it's just kind of a good time for a heart to heart with someone and zoom out. And then what I would say is that one shouldn't be regimented about it, or you block yourself off to the beauty of serendipity. So right now I don't have pen to paper on a goal. I have a really good sense of where I drive my energy. When I'm happiest, what days I leave work and I'm like that didn't feel like work at all. That feel like play, and what days I feel totally drained of energy, and so I'm keeping close track of those and then trusting on, you know, trusting serendipity in part to figure out what's next. I believe in that. Where do you drive your when it is a great day? Where did the Great Day come from? What were the experiences that may occur? Well, this isn't surprising because I'm in sales and I'm in management, but a great day is working with people. A particularly great day is working through something tough off like a real puzzle, be at a you know, career development conversation with someone that's not straightforward, or working through a hairy enterprize deal and brainstorming in a way that is helpful to someone else. And you know, I get the secondary benefit of a psychological game like that just fun. So that's a really great day. The other thing that makes a day great for me, and I think is part of this role, is variety. So being out in the field, being in meetings, you know, building a training whatever it might be. Just having intellectual variety and even variety of settings keeps the day flying by for me. Do you batch your day in any particular way? One of the places where I continue to struggle as sort of transitioning from transactional work to kind of contemplative work or or thoughtful work. Do you program your data specific way to maximize your impact across different types of work? Not as much as I should. So I think you've had John Barrows on the podcast before and he led an amazing training for our sales reps recently where he was talking about the burden of cognitive switching costs. Like he was saying it in terms of advocating for a prospecting a one person at a times you're really living and breathing their world and thinking about them rather than switching it up. But that really resonated with me. There is a cost to switching settings too frequently and so what I...

...find is early in the mornings my brain is super sharp up. So if I want to write a thoughtful note in slack or an external email to someone, I often do that early in the morning. And then I usually spend, you know, two nights, two week nights, a week late at the office just catching up on stuff that I can't like the big strategic things that you can't think about without a couple hours carved out to think about them. Or if I'm in person, a lot of the managers and teams I work with a remote, so if I'm in Toronto meeting with one of the managers, will schedule two hours for a white boarding session and I find that to be a super productive use of time. But the honest answers, no, not nearly as much as I should. So thank you for that reminder. Sure, we had Dan pink on the show and he has a book about perfect timing and his point is that for people that are larks, which are early morning people, that you need to maximize sort of your thoughtfulness work early in the morning because by right around now in the East Coast it's approaching zero pm, and this is sadly, given my age, when I turn into a Pumpkin, and so I have to sort of do hardcore stuff in the morning or else I become unproduced. Sound great, you sound energetic as ever. Well, this was all, you know, a projection of my insecurities. I could receive more positive feedback, so I'm here for you, Sam. Thank you, Danny. One of the things, frankly, just in a spirit of openness, we had a listener comment that, you know, it feels like white man after white man on the on the salesacker podcast, and we don't want it to be like that, and I certainly don't want it to be like that. There aren't many female sales leaders and so, you know, talking to somebody like yourself who is a female sales leader and a future CEO, why do you think that is and what should we what should I like? What should the world do to change that? Should we change it? I'm just curious. On Yourself, I think it's awesome that you were already thinking about that and being proactive about it, and you're totally right. There aren't nearly as many female sales leaders as there could beers there should be, but luckily that is already changing and with each one of us that decides to pursue the leadership path. It makes it easier for other people to see an example of what that could look like and do the same. So I do believe that is changing and I do have a long list of amazing women who are in impressive sales leadership roles who can and should be guests on this podcast to so, and some of them I'll give you in a one way to change this. So sequoia was very proactive about this and last night Jamie bought, one of the lead talent partner and her colleague Jenny, hosted a dinner in Jamie's home for female sales leaders, and not just of sequoia portfolio companies, but literally just creating community around us. And it was super simple, though you know it was. It was a beautiful dinner and we had a very raw and real conversation and out of that emerged an amazing community of women who are going to hold ourselves accountable to doing whatever it is that we were talking through wanting to achieve and who can learn from each other. And so, you know, Jamie happened to be a female leader in the text base and at a premier investment firm, but I think that that kind of strategy is possible for anyone. You know, if you want to meet great female sales leaders or you want to meet other underrepresented minorities in the go to market world, create the group that you want to be part of and bring us all together and we will absolutely relish that. Or just tap into anyone you know. Reach out to me, and this is an open ended offer to anyone who's listening. Reach out to me and say, Danny, who are five women are who are five people who aren't obvious, you know, who don't fit the stereotypical mold, who I should meet, and I will absolutely give you a list of those people and they'll be happy to grab coffee with you. So it's changing and as my one of my mentors, and Ray Mondays, is amazing woman, most recently sp of opset at Zendesk, but has had all sorts of roles and sales HR product. She likes to say that it's a team sport. So you know, all of us women who are progressing in our careers or bringing everyone else up with us, and that's part of the fun. So yeah, it's changing and I'm feeling very, very otimistic and I'm also very grateful for my male mentors. You know, I've I've been mentioning a lot of men who have helped me in the journey, and my boss now, Kevin Eagan, and our globalist Wep of sales and success, Bob, are incredible allies and champions who themselves the built to really diverse work. So I'm feeling good about it good. Is there anything you know? You mentioned some of the things that sort of women can do themselves. Start a networking group. Put yourself at the...

...center of the group that you're seeking to advocate for. Is there anything that we should do? I should do either tactically in the interview process or in the hiring process? There specific considerations I should be mindful of as I'm collaborating with partners of all different shapes and sizes and and genders? Absolutely, there's lots of stuff you can do. I would say at the earliest stage of the recruiting funnel. A tool called textio is phenomenal. We use it here at slack and basically what it does is help you uncover bias in the way that even a job description is written. So if you want to say I want to open up the aperture and increase the pipeline of female candidates. Are you name, you know, film the blank candidates applying to a role text. You will literally help you do that through NLP and machine learning algorithms. That is one so you know, get access to a broader pool. The other thing is we rely on our networks quite a bit to build our teams and I think that's very natural and it's great and many ways. But what happens is historically the people who have led sales orgs are men, and so most of the people in your network are probably going to look and sound somewhat similar to another and and not even you know, gender and race aside, many will have come from the same companies. That's how you met. So I think being aware of seeking out diversity of thought amongst other diversity factors is really important because it'll help you make better decisions, it will help people challenge you when you want to have debate and it will help you from kind of recreating the same playbook over and over and or falling into traps. So that's one part. And I think being vocal about who you want to hire would be great, you know, so asking someone who were some absolute rock star women in your network who I should be talking to, whether they're looking for a job or not, and just sit down and have coffee with them and bring them into your network and that will snowball. And then, lastly, you know, the sequoia event for women leaders was amazing and there's something really special about having just women around the table and and some vulnerability that comes with that that we're all willing to dive into. But I think it is equally, if not more, powerful to have a fully diverse group at the table when you're talking about stuff like this. So I love your question because it means you, as a male, want to bring women into the conversation. I think some of the most impactful conversations I've been part of that, if yielded important results, include not just whatever the minority group is and that and that role. Well, thank you for the advice and we will certainly put it to good use. We are nearing the end of our time together, Danny, so this has been amazing. We want to leave room for sort of to less things. One of them is we like to pay it forward and talk about a few people. You've mentioned a bunch, but people that we should know about that have helped you navigate your career, played a mentor role or just had a big influence. So who are some folks that we should be aware of that I had a big impact? Yeah, I mentioned a handful of them. I'm really big on choosing different sounding boards for different topics. My most frequent and influential sounding board by far is my husband, Jake, who's an investor at emergence capital, amazing firm, and he happens to be an amazing partner and human so I go to him usually first when I'm working through any sort of big decisions or I want to roll play a difficult conversation, whatever it is. Other people who have helped me some have come from within the orgs, so within the ORG, you know, Pete helped me write down goals. He also taught me how to sell and really pushed me, like to an uncomfortable degree, which I love. I think true mentorship is all about pushing people to truly grow and be comfortably uncomfortable and whatever they're working on, and I would say that Kevin Egan, my current boss, are vp of sales at slack, who is amazing, pushes me quite a bit. So the way that our oneonone sound is basically, you know, all throughout, an idea out there, and then he'll ask a really tough question that completely challenges whatever it is that I've put on the table and challenges me to think big and be opinionated about it. So he'll say, you know, you're standing in front of Stewart Butterfield right now or you're standing in front of all of Standford business school right now. What is slack story on our decision to do x, Y Z and why? And what that teaches me and what holds me accountable to is knowing my numbers down pat and understanding how someone else could poke holes, anticipating how someone could poke holse my argument and engaging in healthy debate as a way to grow and make good decisions. And Bob Our sup of global operates in exactly the same way. So those are some at hub spot. So in sales as it as Pete, but for product strategy, Brad who's now the chiefs strategy officer, but he was VPA product when I worked under him, was really instrumental, and as was Brian Holligan, the CEO, in challenging me to think about the...

...long term product strategy of an organization because of one of the tough things about building career and sales, particularly early days when it was SANB sales that up spot, is you start thinking in short term increments. You get this quick gratification from quick wins that are very validating, but product strategy and company strategy is much more long term oriented. So for someone you know, if anyone, seeking out a sounding board to think about what should the long term, big picture strategy of my company be and what are some hard decisions I'm going to make, like what am I going to say no to in that process? And up spot said no to enterprise early days. I would say certainly bad coffee and the founders of hub spot were great at that. That's amazing and it's just awesome to hear about people that have a really positive influence on other people. So we tip our hats to them. What's Your Life Mantra? I'm sure you have a few and you mentioned writing down personal goals, but what are some other life mantras that you have? Yeah, team sport was a life mantra. I was meeting with one of my business school professors yesterday huggy route and he was talking about this stage of life is all about flexing your helping muscle, not your achievement muscle, and I really like that as a professional mantra, because the help muscle brings you a whole lot further than the rat race of the achievement muscle and obsession with numbers at all costs. So I guess that would lead me to a bigger life. Mantra is. Karma is real, the world is small and careers are very, very long. So you know, winning at all costs is not worth it. Relationships are. Being a good person cultivating good relationships for the long term is always the right way to operate, and it will pay off many, many full because people remember the way that you interacted with them and because krmo's is a real and true force. I completely agree, Danny. If people listening to this have been inspired and want to reach out to you, or maybe they want to apply for a job at slack, can they? And you have a preferred communication channel, whether that's email linkedin twitter. How can people reach you if you're open to it? Yes, yes, yes, we are hiring. Yes, please reach out. You may be a great fit for my team or one of my colleagues teams, or maybe you just want to you know, you want a sounding board right now to think through your next career decision. I would love to talk to you. My favorite channel for communication is something called slack, but if you are not a guest user in our slack account, then I would say, you know, reach out to me on Linkedin and and write a blurb and we'll find a way to you know, to hop on the phone or meet up in person. That sounds wonderful, Danny. Thank you so much. Congrats on all your success. We're going to continue to follow your career as you grow, and congrats on picking a bunch of great companies. We all love slack. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Sam Hey, folks, it's Sam Jacobs. That was a great interview with Danny Hertzberg. She's seems very calm and very poised and professional about how she manages her career. She seems like she'd be a great manager and it's clearly a test Stan to the success that she's had both at hub spot and now it's slack. And she said a number of things that I think are bear repeating and are worthy of remarking on one of them. The biggest one, I think, is writing down your personal goals. Both Dan and I and others that have worked for me have taken this objective management group, omg assessment, and one of the things they clearly talked about is can you define and articulate what your short and long term professional goals are, and can you be specific? That's something that John Barrows often talks about as well. Can you produce the document that has your goals? Danny talks about doing it every six months. We're all somewhat inconsistent when it comes to that, I think. But if you can write down your goals and figure out where you want to be in a year, where you want to be in three years and five years, I think that's important. The thing that I will tell you from having done this for now six or seven years, they have to be smart goals with all of the things that that acronym stands for. You can't just say I want to be worth twenty million dollars in a year if it's not realistic in any way, if you can't measure it and if you're overly focused on outcomes versus inputs, if you're focused on things that you can't control versus what you can control over the course of your day. I think you're defeating the purpose of writing the goal. These are mistakes that I've personally made. So that's kind of thing number one. Thing number two is if you're trying to develop advocacy for a particular group. Danny and I talked about what can we do as sales professionals to cultivate and promote sales leadership among women, and she talked about forming groups and putting yourself at the center of the group that you want to advocate for. I think that's great advice. One of the specific things that she mentioned is a company called Textio, which can go through your job descriptions and reveal unconscious cognitive bias and unconscious bias that might be manifesting itself through choices of words that you're using or phrasing that you're using. So can you change your job description to...

...remove the gender bias and sort of present a more neutral stance so that you can appeal to a wider group of professionals? I think that that is our goal. So that has been Sam's corner and Danny also mentioned. If you want to reach out to where you can over linkedin. Lastly, we want to thank our sponsors. You know who our sponsors are. They are outreach and air call. Outreach is your customer engagement platform that helps effectively and efficiently engage prospects to drive more pipeline and close more deals, and air call is your advanced call center software, complete business phone and contact center, one hundred percent natively integrated into any crm. Lastly, lastly, if you want to find me, you can. You can reach me on Linkedin, at Linkedincom. Slash the word in. I M Sam F Jacobs and I will try to respond. I will respond and if you want to share the content that you've heard here on the podcast, please do so. Please share it liberally. Please tell all your friends. We appreciate the feedback, we appreciate the patronage and we've got a lot more new content coming up and new types of content as well. Finally, happy Thanksgiving, thanks for listening to the salesacker podcast and I'll see you next time.

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