The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

39. How to Build a Startup Inside One of the World’s Biggest Tech Companies with Diane Chang Wardi, Growth Lead, Facebook

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This week on the Sales Hacker podcast, we talk to Diane Chang Wardi, one of the sales leaders running and building the Workplace by Facebook initiatives within the global Facebook organization.  Diane originally hails from the fashion industry before joining entering the tech world via Google and then Facebook. She’s tasked with the daunting role of building a traditional B2B enterprise sales team the most recognizable consumer tech company on the planet.

One, two, one, three, three. Hey everybody, it's Sam Jacobs and welcome to the salesacker podcast. If my math is correct, I think this should be two thousand andnineteen that you're listening to this and if so, I hope you had ahappy new year and if it's still two thousand and eighteen, then fantastic.I hope you're looking forward to two thousand and nineteen. I don't know thatdie you. This week we've got a great show. We've got Diane ShangWardy, who is leading enterprise growth for the east coast for workplace by Facebook, which is their their enterprise collaboration tool that is nestled within the broader facebookconsumer organization. So it's really interesting story about how to build a start upwithin this big corporate entity that is focused on a totally different market, whichis the consumer world. And Diane's got an incredible background. She was instrategic partnerships at Google before she was at facebook and she's had a bunch ofdifferent roles. So she talks about sort of how to take advantage of yourcareer, how to navigate your career and how to make sure that when there'san opportunity, so to lean in and sees the day and raise your handfor that opportunity. So it's a great it's a great conversation and she sortof walks through her personal philosophies, including having a protagonist framework, which isreally interesting. So listen on for that. Before we dive in, we wantto thank our sponsors. The first is air call, a phone systemdesigned for the modern sales team. Are Call seamlessly integrates into your crm,eliminating data entry for your reps and providing with greater visibility into your team's performancethrough advanced reporting. When it's time to scale, you can add new linesand minutes and use in caall coaching to reduce ramp time for your new reps. visit are called dot io for salesacker to see why a million great companiesare using air call. Our second sponsor is outreach. That's outreached, outI owe, the leading sales engagement platform. Outreach triples the productivity of sales teamsand empowers them to drive predictable and measurable revenue growth by prioritizing the rightactivities in scaling customer engagement. With intelligent automation, outreach makes customer facing teamsmore effective and improves its ability into what really drives results. So go overto outreach, dot io forward salesacker. That is outreach, dot io forwardslash sales sacker, to see how thousands of customers, including cloud air,glass door, Pandora, Zillo and on and on and on, rely onoutreach to deliver higher revenue for Sales Rep lastly, as many of you know, I am part of a global advocacy organization for commercial executives called the revenuecollective. We are now in Toronto, Denver, Boston, London, NewYork and I'm probably forgetting one Amsterdam, where Andre Brussel, the CEO ofHatsh Hotel Champ, started that chapter. But if you're in a different marketsomewhere out there and you're interested in starting up a revenue collective chapter, dropme a line. You can reach me at Linkedincom in slash Sam f Jacobs. So that's a little announcement for the revenue collective. Now, without furtherado, let's listen to Diean Shag Lordy from facebook in this week's episode ofthe Salesacer podcast. Everybody, it's Sam Jacobs. Welcome back to the saleshacker podcast. We are incredibly excited. If I've done my math right,it is now two thousand and nineteen and so and if it's not two thousandand nineteen, will have I hope you're having a good two thousand and eighteen, but it should be two thousand and nineteen. But that's not the point. The point is that we're really excited for this week's guest. She isa member of the revenue collective but, more importantly, Diane Shang Wardy isthe enterprise growth lead for workplace by facebook. So in her role she leads workplacescommercial presence on the East Coast. She's going to tell us all aboutworkplace. If you're not familiar with it, it is their enterprise software solution,obviously for enterprises, and she's building a go to market sales team thatlooks a lot like and is be to be enterprise sales within the construct ofthe global facebook organization. So it's going to be a super interesting conversation.Prior to this role, she was the chief of staff for Nicola Mendelsohn,facebook's VP of Amia. Earlier in her career she spent a number of yearsat Google leading strategic partnerships with top e commerce companies in the UK and sheholds a bea from Princeton and an MBA from Harvard business school. So she'ssmart. Diane, welcome to the show. Great, thanks so much for havingyou. So we are excited to...

...have you. So let's just diveinto it. Be So for the listeners out there, facebook as a publiccompany. Normally we would go into Diane's baseball card and we'd ask about rrand, you know, all of those financial metrics that private companies have.But we can all look up facebooks ten K if we want to know abouthow big they are and what they're up to. So let's hear about you, Diane. First of all, tell us what is enterprise. Tell usabout workplace for facebook or work place by Facebook, and give us a littlebit about of the origin store right, because I think it's really interesting.Yeah, of course. Okay, so we're placed by facebook and in aquick sound by even think of it as a private facebook for the organization,and it actually started it as an internal tool. So basically, in twothousand and eleven mark Zuckerberg gets up on stage at fate and he talks aboutthink back to a time where facebook did not have groups and we would announcethat as a feature. So it was a place for friends and family toget together. And at the time the organization facebook had grown so quickly thatit actually felt, while we were on stage talking about new innovative features andthe new type of company that facebook was actually internally we had grown so quicklythat things were locked in silos, so emails, meetings, etc. Soone enterprising engineer basically took groups and made it available for just facebook, theorganization, and it actually kind of changed everything overnight. And so when wethink about as the organization grew, the most important thing is that people haveaccess to information so they can make the best decision. That's literally not thepeople that are just in the meeting rooms or on the senior email threads thatare making the decisions. And so it was a very deliberate management decision sincetwo thousand and eleven to actually make what we called facebook at work a thing. And then along the way we got a lot of questions from people whowould ask about, you know, how has facebook brought people along in thejourney as it's grown so quickly, and we realize like in some ways weused facebook to make facebook facebook. So we we took it to I meana lot of the I think companies are like that, right. You know, even some instances you fee. You look at Aaron Ross, feel saysales force made sales for sales force. So and this instance it feels veryrelevant. And so in two thousand and fifteen we made it available in Betaand the our first paying customer was the Royal Bank of Scotland, who wasin a totally opposite business then facebook, but they had basically invested a lawin external advocacy after the financial crisis and wanted to do more for their employeebase. And so it's grown from there. We renamed it to workplace in twothousand and sixteen. Facebook at work was very confusing for the external marketand now we've got thirtyzero organizations using it, from Walmart, starbucks, Delta tothe ten person Nail Salon that's run corner. Wow, and you're you'rerunning that. Are you allowed to tell us how big your team is?Yes, and so in New York, and we actually have a landing teamin New York. So we just put people here a year ago, andso we've got three in sales to in customer success and one solutions architect,and so it's just a straight up pod function. But workplace, interestingly,is the first product of facebook to be fully built outside of Menlo Park.And so, again, because it was like an internal side project, therewere a couple of enginerors working on it in London and it's now grown toan organization of maybe a hundred, hundred fifty people on the commercial side andthat as well as on product. Wow, awesome. Well, I want tosort of deeply dig in, but let's start with with you. Andhow did you get to this role? We heard in your bio that youwere sort of you went to Princeton and HBS. But how did we howdid you find your way to facebook in the first place? gives us alittle bit about your background. Sure, it's a good question, and soI mean, I think generally my foray into tech started in a place thatyou wouldn't necessarily expect, and that actually was because I started my career infashion and all for all the amazing things that fashion brings, I think myvantage and entry and entry point into it made me feel like actually I wantedto work on something with like true scale, and so if you wanted scale,I went to somewhere that where I got it, and that was Google, and I think from there I basically got hulked and completely spoiled on whatit meant for, you know, a thought, a product, a projectto have such impact for People's daily lives. And so through there, you know, had added variety of different partnerships roles that took me to London,Mountain view, etc. And then my journey to actually facebook was just acontinuation of that kind that continual, I think, hunt for impact and scale. But the interesting thing, I think...

...while I've done a lot of partnershipsrole, having done that, I actually ended up taking a chief of staffrole in London for our VP of Amia, which is your Middle East and Africa. It's quite a corporate distinction to call it Amia, and that basicallygave me exposure to kind of the whole business in a way that probably wouldthat it would take some time for me to see other vantage points of thebusiness. So I'm thinking about comms policy, areas of the business that didn't necessarilywork around just the core silo that I was in, and I thinkthe interesting thing about that is you would imagine, okay, when people talkto leaders of Facebook, they could ask anything right. They could ask anythingfrom how does facebook feel about X Y Z policy to what are you doingon ABC product? But the single biggest thing that people want to ask andtalk about was facebook's culture. How have you scaled it? You know,people would always say things about actually, it really feels like I'm trying toget my messages out and how does facebook do it? And interestingly, somuch of that conversation just came back to to wordplay, and so I feltlike it was coming up in so many conversations that when it was time tolook for my next role, along with a personal move to New York,it seemed pretty clear cut to me that I was really excited to build outwhat place could be for the east coast. And you're in a sales leadership roleand I think you know so your commercial roles before had been running sortof partnerships teams. Are you noticing a difference? Does it feel completely natural? You know, how are you approaching sort of this new set of responsibilities? So I think some things do feel completely natural and I think this maybeboth I think learned at the mee of my previous Boston and a broad facebookthing of just like a people or people right. So, whether you're likeselling someone on the opposite side or you're building a partnership, fundamentally we're tryingto do is like have a thought, have a vision, guide and educateand then get to that that piece. I think what will feel slightly differentor a couple of the things of just like the rigor of what is itbe tob sale versus how I thought about partnerships in the past and I've workedon, you know, on revue revenue partnerships previously, but it feels completelydifferent, I think, in this aspect of how we think about it,and I think when you talk to sales leaders who were doing be to besoftware sales in particular, I've completely marveled at the discipline and the Pantheon ofknowledge that exists in these sales leaders of just how similar the issues are.Right you could be a sales leader for twenty five years and you could bea sales leader for six months and you're still kind of fundamentally figuring out,okay, you know, where is the line between our sales and marketing team? How do we get them to work together? How do you think aboutyour demand Jin? How do you think about sales cycle optimization? And soI love that because I think I've found it a very welcoming and incredible communityof such smart, switched on, sometimes very high decibel leaders that are sowilling to talk about anything from the most entry level to the most advanced,and so I think that's been some of the biggest challenge and then also someof the biggest surprise. So how are you? I mean it's super interesting, first of all, just scaling the culture and obviously share what you're comfortablesharing, but how do you introduce or be part of the team that isintroducing I guess you know, it's two thousand and sixteen. It sounds likewhen things, you know, got into Beta, but still a relatively neweffort to introduce the concept of traditional be tob sales inside this global consumer organization. How do you do that? What's your strategy for doing that and what'sthe timeline for you to feel like you're making the right impact? I guessif you guys have thirtyzero different organizations using it, you've alread any meaning,already made any impact. But how do you think about it? Yeah,so I think we feel really lucky because we will always ask why, whyis facebook in this space like that? Wouldn't actually have to go into theenterprise space. And for US actually, if you think about it, likefacebook changed its mission last year to be centered around giving people the power tobuild community and bring the world closer together. And so actually, if you thinkabout like your most arguably and maybe not your most important community, butfor many people their most important community and the one that you spend the mosttime with, it is your work. And so for us we feel likeworkplace is a fundamentally important way to bring people into communities in their workplace.And so I think from there we feel very lucky within the larger facebook ecosystem, that this is a huge bet investment for for facebook. And so ifyou look at our three, five ten year Road Map, as we talkedabout our products, we're in the same...

...company as instagram and Messenger. Sofor the workplace team, we feel really proud about that and think that's reallygood company. But that said again, I mean if you're working on consumerbusinesses, it's so easy for instagram and Messenger to tout their huge user counts, are monthly active people, and for workplace that it will feel somewhat differentbecause we're in a different stage with the business, but that's that. Ithink it comes with both strengths and then things are areas to develop on.So I think the the great part about it is with facebook's consumer DNA,the whole point is like what we care about is getting people to use theproduct. So I think while there are more traditional benchmarks and milestones as youthink about building enterprise business, we still take that lens to what it meansabout workplace and it just means that all we want to do is build greateproducts that people want to use. And then if you go in and youtalk to people who have been in the enterprise collaboration software space and have potentiallyinvested in previous ones, all they will do and tell you whether there arehr it comms. Pick your persona. Is that like we bought something,it seemed great, it ticked every box on the matrix and yet people don'tuse it. So I think we feel really lucky because we at least havea track record of building products that people use. On the opposite side,I mean the funny thing is what it means to build an enterprise organization withina large consumer organization. Is just some of the like the milestones of whatthat means. So, for example, you know, we were building anSDR function. It wasn't one that was familiar to facebook until basically built anenterprise sales organization. So going through that concept of what is an organization looklike and and what are the things actually that we need as a baseline.And then, you know, some of the other things of just like howwe think about our Legen and demand. Jen will be very different from someof the other areas of facebook's business. So that's something that we've also haveto explore and strike the right balance. Is Your Legen is it sort ofthis concept of product qualified leads? I mean is there like a is ita fremium platform? Tell us a little bit more about like the product itself. And I guess my question is, does it compete? I mean isit a slack competitor? Is it a yammer competitor? How do we sortof fit it into, you know, the right category? Yeah, ofcourse it's a great question. And even, I think, the enterprise collaboration space. If you were to Google like enterprise collaboration space, you'll get fifteendifferent articles which will tell you either like it's slack or M or chatter jive. But fundamentally actually, we think our biggest competition is email, and thatsounds kind of like, okay, what does that actually mean? But letme guarantee everyone who is collaborating in a company is sending communications on email.It is the most like entrenched technology you can think of, and so forUS actually, we think there's a huge opportunity to start even with something assimple revolutionizing top down collaboration, because most of that is still done via email. Your CEO or your senior leader will send an email to, you know, one hundred, two hundred and fifty two hundred Tho people and unless youwere the intern that miss missed the memo, you do not reply all to thatemail. And all that means is that you don't actually get to aconversation organization, whereas if you put it in something that's a little bit morefamiliar, which by by by definition, there is a blanket says reply,write a comment, like you're asking for feedback, and it's not so scaryto reply back to your CEO when he posts it or when he goes liveor uses something that's like actually how people communicate in two thousand and nineteen,and so I think that's kind of where we think we play and there's alot of people who have tried other things. So some of the names that you'vementioned and obviously are great products, but I think what we have foundis that there's an incredible adoption across an entire organization. And so back tothe idea of bringing you know, bring making a company into a community.This not only takes your tech team or your accounting team, where you're HRteam, but the whole goal is really to bring everyone in. Matier questionon business model, so we have two options. We have both standard,which is free, and then premium. But most people, I think,over premium just because it comes with some controls, like, you know,for an admin panel for example. So anything, I think above a tenperson organization would want that. And our pricing model is like three dollars permonthly active person. So again I am we've we charged on an active usagerather than seats, and that's another example. I think what we're talking about ifwe really care, we want people to use the product rather than thinkingabout what more traditional pricing options when you think about like the the Roy andI guess my I'm just super interested in I'm always interested in the concept oflike building these be to be enterprise businesses...

...within like a broader ecosystem, likea broader consumer business like facebook. So do you guys have like your ownmarketing team when you're thinking about Roy? Has it been a struggle to sortof develop all of the right traditional enterprise sales collateral to help the sales teambe effective? Yeah, and I think for us it's still very much awork in progress. And so and even thinking through like what it means fora product to be headquartered in in London and built out of London. Sothat means that those were our first sales cycles, right. So what cellsin the enterprise collaboration space, and Amia may be different than an Apac,maybe be different in North America and Lad am. So I think that's definitelysomething we're still learning. So, for example, culture may resonate with acertain set of CEOS, but others will find that fluffy and like. Whatthey actually want to measure is impact to their bottom line. And so ifI think about our marketing team, for example, I mean I think they'vedone an incredible job of just getting your workplace out there and still figuring outhow we tell our enterprise story and what we're leading with, because I thinkI think back trying to explain what facebook was when you were like first onit and you asked your friend to get on it and you're like it's photos, but it's news feed and etc. And I think for us what we'redoing is really trying to crystallize actually what this could be, which has it'sboth feature rich but also very targeted in what we want to do for anorganization. But sometimes, I mean, I think trying to distill that inin, you know, ten copy display at can be tricky and so we'restill working through that. But it's, I think, a good problem tohave. What kind of sales people have you found to be effective? Andyou know, I mean it's a common question across all sales leadership, butwhen you think about the ideal profile, what are the qualities for the specifictype of sales motion that have emerged as sort of determinatet of success? Yeah, it's interesting. So I think also, you know, workplace has gone throughan interesting evolution as we started in the market. Obviously you have thename recognition from the parent brand, but not a lot of other people,I think, understood what it was. And again we took it to marketwith like facebook at work. So I think in the earlier stage is youreally needed somebody who could like sell the vision right what this could be.It's a new way of running a company on a lot of the pieces aroundthat, and so kind of the classic like I hate to use the JeffreyMoore type methodology, but it like a hundred percent applies. Right. Areyou getting charismatic business leaders who can see what this is? And then,as obviously as the sales like cycle goes on, then people have more questions. Right, then you're dealing with a fortune two thousand it company. Andthen I think we feel really excited about the progress and how we've we've metthat challenge. And so some of our recent customers we've announced our Austras,Seneca, Vota phone, Glaxo Smith client, and so as you get into thoseindustries, you imagine that they have the most rigorous checks in the worldof what they want to accomplish, our wy security, etc. And we'vebeen able to make that happen. And so I think from a broader perspective. That evolution has then meant you need salespeople who are very like just basicallyadaptable, right, who can actually sell a vision and tell that story andand lay that as as the baseline, but then also be like proficient enoughto talk through what it actually means for a security check. And I thinkprobably the second piece we're finding to be really successful is somebody who can say, like, okay, I'm going to tell you, this is how wethink about collaboration at facebook and this is what we've learned from our base ofcustomers about how collaboration communication are happening and the enterprise today, what it'll looklike in two years, in five years, and you may not be ready tofigure out how that's going to work in your organization, but I'm goingto tell you how. These are the people that you need to go galvanize. This is the story that you need to tell, here are the commonquestions you're going to get, and so it really is this kind of guidingeducational piece. I think of salespeople who aren't afraid to say actually, like, I fully hear you and I I justlike I disagree, but because Icare enough about your organization and the future of it, to tell you.And so that's, I think, what we've seen transfer the most successfully toworkplace skill set. So that's almost like a challenger methodology, you know,leading with commercial insight and talking to customers about sort of their business and presentingit in a new way. Yeah, absolutely to me. So when youyou know, you've been at Google and you've been at facebook, and Ithink there's probably a lot of people out there who are either at high growthcompanies or maybe some of them are at big companies and trying to figure outhow do they become you and like how...

...do they navigate these organizations effectively andcontinue moving up the ladder? What are when you think about what's made yousuccessful at, you know, Google and facebook, these two huge companies,companies that are driving sort of the technical evolution of the world, what doyou attribute it to? What are the skills that you think you've relied onthat have really helped you? Like how does somebody else sort of following yourfootsteps? Wow, wow, what a nice question. I think some ofthe things that I can think. I don't think it's like one thing inparticular right and everyone will kind of always classically say like what's the difference betweenlike hard work or lucky break? And I think kind of classically people willsay, well, it's the hard work that gets you to your lucky break, and for me I do feel very lucky. I've had a lot ofgreat opportunities along the way in between these different organizations. But I'd say ifthere were a couple of things that cut that I pinpoint. So one isreally just like if you see something and you're interested in it, like don'tbe afraid to go have the conversation or ask a question, and I thinkI'd be. You'd be some prizes by having people just don't do that.That being just like the literal table stakes of step one. And so,for example, like a Google, when I wanted to do strategic partnerships,basically everyone told me I was way too junior to go do it. Right, I had, you know, Google had just signed an agreement with applethe Google maps on the launch of the Apple iphone, and I would thisis literally two thousand and seven. I was like that's cool. Who Signsthat agreement? Who pays whom, Etcetera, etc. And then you know,everyone was like, well, it is this very like fancy strategic partnershipsteam. But again, you're going to need like ten more years experience.So if you want to go do partnerships, like quick Google go to like,you know, a smaller company that allow you to do partnerships. Iwas like, okay, well, that sounds like a pretty drastic move.And so then you would basically just find someone on the team and it's youknow who were like, are you happy to have a thirty minute chat?And with most people were ready to have a have a thirty minute chat,which led to a six month maternity cover on that team, which led toa full time role. But I'd like seen that time and time again,and even if I look at roles like even for hiring my replace for cheapestaff role, a lot of people basically just didn't like go for the rolebecause they were like they thought, Oh, I'm not sure I'm ready for itor etcetera. But like that you already like put yourself out of therunning to begin with, and I think I felt really surprised seeing that thatcycle happen. And so I'd say the biggest thing I would say is literallyjust like there's nothing wrong to go have the thirty minute conversation. There's literallyzero downside to it. And then you mentioned a few lessons. What aresome of the other so one of them is like raise your hand and sortof jump at the opportunity. And you know, what else? Do youthink? Are there other sort of management skills? And I guess one ofthe other questions is, how do you go from being an individual contributor toa manager or and what are your thoughts on sort of what is representative ofa great manager? This is a kind of all over the place, butI'm tyfically interested in that. Yeah, but that's we're going to get throughthat. This is going to be like a good management book that we're goingto finish. I hope so, so, so, I think. Okay,so a couple of things I think, and back to the kind of firstquestion, of other things I think that are important to remember. I'mI think you don't necessarily have to have a steer on like what your fifteenyear plan is, but have a sense of life what your next is afteryour next, and so again, that doesn't mean like you have fully figuredout what, like you know what you're going to be when you grow up, but if you know that. Like so, for example, if youwanted to be a manager at some point and start to figure out like okay, well, then maybe, if not my next role, then what wouldallow me to be a manager in my next one? And of course there'sa lot of soul searching conversations that go alongside with that, of like doyou want to be a manager? Do you care about investing in teams andother people's Development and influencing to produce outcomes? But at least you've done some ofthat thought work, and I actually found it really pretty surprising, evenin inflection points where so, for example, you like classic like Business School ApplicationEssays, which you would imagine are pretty like stock and barrel, butthey actually ask you what sound like very trite questions, like you know,what do you want, like what drives you and why? But actually belike take a step back and whether you're applying to school or not, itlike actually just think, like okay, like what actually is the fifth levelanswer to that question, not the first one of the second one. Butif, like my best friend were to keep asking me why, like whydo I actually want to do something? And if you can get to thatpoint where you have like a pretty good answer. Maybe every five or tenyears. I think that's a pretty good guy to a North Star so youdon't end up in like some industry and function that has nothing to do withwhat you would actually have drawn for yourself.

And so I think I've like donethat a couple of times and just had the discipline to do it,because it is a discipline and it is a process in the same way whereyou easily could get distracted by your day to day to the business of work, the business of personal life, etc's to make that happen, let me, let me, let me in our ject real quick. So what?Why do you what is your I mean this is fat. This is reallyimportant, because I think there's so many people out there listening that they're tryingto figure out what is that. I mean, I hate to sound Cliche, but what is there? Why? So, when you've done that everycouple of years, like what's the most recent? I mean, if you'recomfortable sharing it's probably pretty personal. But like what does motivate you? Whatdoes propel you forward, of course, and so I think for me actually, when I did like the list, and some of this is like thelittle like the practical tips on our life. Write down like five moments where youfelt like man, I like accomplish that, and I was the onlylike this is I think I accomplish it in a way that nobody else wouldhave, because I cared about something that somebody else wouldn't have, and thatcan be both personal and professional, and so I think what I cared aboutand doing that, like it was literally everything from things at work where Ihad like stay longer on a project and I'm like no, no, Ireally care about this, to even personal things where I'm like I want aboveand beyond on that like so, for example, like planning a trick,and I'm like, okay, well, what's the common thread between these things? And I'm actually like think about it, I actually really care about, like, I think, creating the experiences and like the stories that people like, that people here and have, and I think that continually has been athing that's led me through. I mean I've loved in every single role whenI've been able to to like latch onto what is a vision, and Ithink that's what drives me about the workplace of like there is a vision ofwhat work could be and I really care about like people understanding that, havingthat experience, experience, go with that, go through that with me, evenif, like you know, six months into it they're going to belike actually now, like you know, we may have signed an agreements totwelve months ago with a previous provider. I'm like, I really care aboutyou having the experience where your work is fundamentally better. And so I thinkthat's been true, I think, throughout my whole career, like thinking throughlike what is an experience that you think people should have and how can youhelp them have that? Wow, that's I mean, that's that's really reallypowerful stuff. So and that's kind of propelled you the whole way. Imean I interrupted you before, but so, so, tell us what else youknow, like you're you're you're taking stock, you're sort of pushing forwardand you're thinking about like what motivates you. What else? What other lessons doyou have for people as they think about sort of pursuing and I guessone of the other ones that you just mentioned is, you know, raisingyour hand and making sure that you lean in on the opportunity and probably likemaybe tackling things that you feel you might not be completely ready for. Doesthat sound accurate? Yeah, definitely. And I think maybe the last oneis like just having like as a somewhat contract from what I was just saying, of like have an idea of what your next is, a you're next. But I think I feel really lucky to have had international experience for abig chunk in my career. So I worked in London for before and afterbusiness schools of seven years in total, and I think with that was incredibleabout that. Is it just basically like reorients yourself a running completely different toographic access, and then just the idea that, like your inputs are goingto come from different places. And if you assume that your inputs are alwaysgoing to come from like one straight path, that's not actually true. And soI think just putting yourself in a position where you seek out, andthat doesn't mean have to necessarily mean geography, but just where you think you'll getto a point where you get enough interdisciplinary inputs. I mean basically everygreat like leader and thinker and invention out there has been because like somebody hasseen things that haven't been seen before and putting yourself in a position where youare exposed to new things. Like what naturally does that for you? SoI'd say that's kind of the the third part of you know, my management, how to be successful. True, it is. Well, I meanpeople are listening. So so I think it's helpful. One of the thingsthat you've talked to me about is is sort of this concept of like theprotagonist mindset. So tell us what that is and walk us through that thatframework. Yeah, so this one time I have to credit to a thinkerand a leader named Fred Kaufman, who wrote a book called conscious business,and within conscious business he introduces this framework of basically like the protagonist mindset.Right, so this is like the classic okay, Somebody's late to a meetingin the morning and you ask them like Oh, you know, or theyrun, they rush in, they're like king coffee spilled on them and thenyou're like what's up and they're like, oh, there was terrible traffic,and so the protagonist basically is like to...

...flip that mindset and say like actually, I know, there's traffic every single day and I'm late because I didn'tleave enough room. Now, on the one hand, that can sound liketotally like. Man, this is like a hard framework on one, becausethen you're always basically taking responsibility. But the idea is that there is aspectrum right between a protagonist and a victim, and the victim is the one that'slike, I couldn't do anything, there was traffic. And then protagonistis like, I didn't leave enough time. So in the future I know thatI have agency to leave another ten minutes. And how does that translateacross? You know everything right, both personal and professional, and so inan interaction with, you know, a close friend, like, what doesit mean to actually, like take ownership of that? And then, certainly, I mean you'll know this better than anyone, but building like you ina startup environment, there's like going to be crazy things that happen to youand sometimes you will have to acknowledge that. Look, maybe the structure wasn't right, this wasn't set up for success. We should have thought about that sixmonths ago. But it's all kind of like stems around Kent. Doyou have like the the even the first sliver of light to be able tosay, actually, I take responsibility for that, like I should have donex, even if it's like I should have thought about that six months ago, twelve months ago, and I didn't. So the only thing that prevents youlike just means that you probably will think about it when you come tothat similar situation in the future. So within the workplace team, I thinkit's very interesting within North America. Again, usually in North America you have thevery luxurious position of your product team sitting in likely in California or prettyclose to you. And again, I think for the workplace team it's avery good experience for all of us that are lend our London is our productteam in our commercial headquarters. So it stretches a lot of skills and likewhat that means to be in touch with your product team, getting feedback andjust the additional work it takes to make sure communication is working. But alongsidewith that it means also in North America, we've been really focused on adopting aprotagonist mindset, meaning like, just in case you feel like that productfeedback didn't get back, like it's, you know, one thing to belike well, I sent the email and starting to be like I didn't hearback and I didn't follow up, and so I think that's something that we'vereally had to take to heart and also meet key for basically just a smallteam that can feel far away from from a commercial and product head quarters.Do you guys have like a different hiring methodology or I like, are youlooking for different types of people for workplace by facebook than the broader facebook consumerorganization? And does that impact I mean, how does that impact you, ifat all? I don't I wouldn't say that it's kind of it's different. I mean, certainly I think there are core skills or Fingo some ofthe conversation we've been having around having an enterprise background that is going to bemuch more helpful to you selling workplace rather than many potential other sales skill sets. But that said, I think you know facebook broadly and this will alwaysbe kind of like the first filter of what does it mean to succeed atFacebook, and I think there will be things of you know, being ableto work cross functionally. Right. I think this is an organization like manymatrix organizations, where a lot of your success is built on, like howquickly you can build relationships and understand that, like you, your success doesn't happenjust by yourself, which their other organizations where that that actually does happen. But that's something that really won't work at facebook and just just given ourhistory and the way that we've grown. And so that's, I think,a key one that we think about when we bring people into the organization.I think the second one in classically, everyone will tell you, adaptability.But again, I mean I think that that also applies to how we thinkabout workplace, and I mean interestingly, a lot of the people who startedthe workplace team or long time facebookers and hadn't sold enterprise software before, butthe reason they were successful as they could tell you basically what the vision oflike this is how we think we should run a company. Right in someinstance. We were talking a little bit about how we thought about culture andobviously, as the product expanded, then we see how this manifest at otherpeople's organizations. So have the stories to feed in and now it's a muchricher conversation about what culture would employ, engagement, etcetera, looks like now. But that said, you kind of need to be able to like adaptto that change and I think you know every time you're starting a new businesswithin facebook, you want to bring in that facebook DNA and then obviously,you know, subject matter expertise. How did you guys think about bringing in, you know, enterprise sales expertise into this new business unit? Did youhire a bunch of consultants? Did you read a bunch of books? Whatdid you guys embrace the specific sales methodology? Tell us a little bit about thatevolution. Yeah, so I don't know if we've settled on sales,a particular sales methodology, and then certainly the book reading. You'll on myentire team laughs, basically because I feel...

...like I walk like I'm Amazon's bestcustomer every single day. But I think every salesperson at this point and May, we haven't like settled on one, and so it is basically just workingon what works for them and we kind of have a joke, you know. So we have a sales leader who leads our a mere region and he'slike an incredibly charismatic but also very forceful person and he can say stuff thatI would never be able to get away with in a sales pitch. Sohe'll like get in there, like start the pitch and just say it's toolate, you're already too late, and people will pousibly like, what areyou talking about? It says In't like, you know, an amazing conversate inan amazing French accent. He's like your people are already communicating on what'sup there, already on consumer facebook. They're already out there with your enterprisedata. You've completely missed it. Okay, like think about me saying that likethat would never happen. It would just never be like my personality,my pitch. But it's very effective. When he says it. Everyone's lowerslike, Oh my God, I'm too late, and so I would loveto find that's been for me, whereas I'm going in talking about, like, you know, the vision of a company and what it will be.But so I think all that is to say we're not yet there. There'sa lot of room for personality and how people approach it. But I thinkyou know, as obviously the organization grows up, we will standardize it andbring in kind of core enable my functions so that if it doesn't feel likeif you're a brand new and you aren't a natural, you're too late typeof person, that is you're not. You have your some other tools tofall back upon and if I did, you guys. You guys use likecrm? I mean do you sales force or some kind of see? Areyou adopting and embracing, you know, other elements of like traditional SASS,be tob sales or war? Is it a lot of like still homegrown facebooktools to sort of go to market? In that regard, I mean Ithink we we use sales force and we were using sales force even when itwas an enterprise business, and so that as a baseline and you know,we're a happy customer of sales loft, and so there's a lot of otherthings, I think that we're bringing into the organization and still exploring. Again, I think, you know, we're on a path to kind of figureout how do we make everyone most efficient and, like you know, it'swe think about it like the team is pretty lean if you think about it. So, like I said, you know, it's basically three sales peoplefor a total team of the seven with customer success in Solutions Architect for theEast Coast Region, and so a lot of that will be will scale throughservice partners and a partner ecosystem in that is a, you know, amuscle that in some ways we know because facebooks. FACEBOOK has a lot ofpartnership DNA. But that said, also, like you know, figuring out inthe enterprise space is new as well. And then the thing, I meanwe brought an incredible leaders and so we the person to leads our globalsales organization now is a is Leslie Young, who came to us from Bob andI think it's been incredible what she's built within the organization and the changeand impact has been able to kind of mold with workplace. And so it'sa, I think, a perfect marriage of enterprise, history and excellence andwould best in class organization should look like. Plus that facebook like history and DNAjust like the craziness of facebook in general. One of the you sortof alluded to a little bit before when you're talking about sort of one ofthe things that impacted your career. As you're you said if there's an opportunityto make sure you sort of you raise your hand and go for it.And of course, like the first two words that jump to my mind atleast darling in and you know that famous book, and you are a femalesales leader. Obviously, any advice or has that affected you? I mean, obviously gender affects all of us every single day, and just in waysthat are conscious and unconscious. But have you developed your own personal strategy fornavigating the workplace? Have you felt like it's impacted you at all? Whatadvice would you give to to young women that are rising up through the ranks? Just always curious. We live in, you know, a changing time andwe want to make sure that we're arming everybody with the tools they needto be successful in their careers. What's your perspective on that? Yeah,of course, and so I think my perspective on this is kind of changedover time. I think you know, earlier in my career I was thinkingactually like it shouldn't matter right you you know somebody is up for a job, who is up for a job? And if you're not, you know, you should be able to put your hand up. It should be easyand etc. And I think over time actually and spending more time and thinkinga lot about it, and then certainly I think working for incredible female leadershas given me even more vantage point on the that actually it's not just likea you know, you should just raise your hand and every all else followsthis by the fact that I just literally gave you that advice. So I'macknowledging that. But on top of that, I think actually what it is isthere's a couple of things that I...

...think go into it. One,I think it's just the acknowledgement that it is important at for female leaders andand people who are female to like actually think about what they want things tolook like and then just go for them, right, and so I think maybeit just takes some like being actually planful to make sure that the naturalcircumstances don't end up just meaning that somebody isn't in a place where they wantto be. And so I think maybe for me it has been about actuallytaking just a little bit more thought to make sure that like the default doesn'thappen, so to speak. And second things I would be about like actuallyjust finding like people within the organization that don't necessarily to be like you,your quote Unquote Mentor, but people who have like qualities that you admire andthe basically just go like study those qualities and then like see what, like, what that actually manifest says. Right. So if if you have a NorthStar for okay, fine, I know that this particular leader like I'msure that she might handle XYZ situation a certain way, then actually like thenthat's your rubric and Road Map, and so I think that kind of modelingis really helpful, even if it doesn't have to be as personal as likea mentorship or a one on one conversation. And then third thing I'd say islike actually just like find your you're like literal people in the workplace thatyou feel are like your kinfred spirits, and that doesn't necessarily mean that hasto be of the same gender, but people who you think kind of like, get how you think and like that you can actually like band together andbounce ideas off each other, and so some people will tell you that's kindof like a personal board, but I will certainly say, for you know, a big decisions and small, but largely the big ones. I have, you know, a set of friends that I would certainly look to,all of whom I think are incredible women who kind of see the world differentlythan I will and in some ways that you like. They'll bully me andtell me that I'm being stupid on one thing and other things be incredibly encouraging, and I think it's really important to just kind of have that as yougo and again everyone has friends that you'll go to four different decisions, soone on jobs other than personal, but just like building that bench, Ithink is really important. I mean sort of a loaded question, but doyou think should you modify your behavior towards quote unquote, masculine qualities, particularlyin sales? You know there's these stereotypes about, even though they've largely beendebunked, because it's sort of been shown that introverts, or at least ambervertsare, are probably more successful in sales than sort of typically or stereotypically definedextroverts. But have you found yourself, or do you find yourself embracing certainelements of your personality or modifying your personality based on gender roles as you lookfor success, or you completely you're ignoring all of those things and just tryingto beat do your best and etc. Yeah, some of it, Ithink may even be like, I actually don't even know right. So Icould probably potentially be like more intent, like is intense or something in ameeting that I actually have no idea. I will say at revenue collective dinner'smy volume level does go up, and notcher too, so maybe that's themost profund. That's the most reflective of me trying to, you know,fit in with a greater team. But I think, I look, Ithink this is going to be easier said than done, but I think inthe end, like there is only so much you can do kind of liketrick and environment into a personality. I think like it's exhaust usting and sosome people may have been full masters of it, and I give total credenceto there is a whole host of people who have done that and like,I think, sacrificed either personality wise or disguised truly who they were to bringus to where we are in and in time. That said, I thinkwe are also coming to a moment where the acknowledgement and the acceptance is thatactually it's exhausting to pretend like you're somebody else, and I think actually,you know, Harvard to a study that actually like the productivity game that's lostout of be like pretending not to be yourself actually is terrible and I'm veryimpactful. So if you can think about what unlocks if you actually are justlike through true self, and so I'd like to be fairly optimistic about it, that were in a moment where people actually can be their true selves anddon't need to modify. But I think probably classically people will. There's alittle bit of just like mirroring, but for the most part, again,I don't think you can like trick people what I say, like you can'ttrick people into dating who you are who you are, and I think that'skind of true in all things. Yeah, makes a lot of sense. Sowe're almost at the at the end of of our time together. Thisis obviously been a fascinating conversation because you know you're doing something so innovative withinthis broader context. When you think about one of the things that we liketo do in the podcast is sort of pay it for forward and talk aboutpeople that have influenced you. So who...

...are some of the people that youthink we should know about that are great sales or marketing leaders or just greatexecutives that have been, you know, role models for you over the lastcouple of years? Yeah, so on that when I'd say, hands down, it's pretty easy that it's my former boss, Nicola Mendelssoon, who runsfacebook's business in a MIA, and I think for that actually the most incrediblething is like I think she's the one who actually taught me that you likecan bring like literally be your whole person, and so nicolas an incredible visionary,a sales leader, and I think that said, also has like taughtme the importance of what it means like actually fundamentally have people at the core. And so she's always the person who, like, no matter how hectic thingsseem, more intense, like will literally take the ten minutes and likethinks that actually it's a failing or professional relationship if you don't know what's goingon in that person's personal life. She's like how can you possibly like workwith this person, understand what drives them, makes them take if you don't knowwhat's going on like under the hood, so to speak? And I thinkthe other thing around that is actually, you know, for Nicola, likeshe has a four children and has basically, like, you know,prioritize that. She worked four day weeks for a number of years because shehad for young, small children and she like basically, like you know,one to her boss is one day I was like Weok, like I basicallycould just use one extra day. I feel like I'm not doing very wellat mom thing and the and the work thing and I really like just benefitfrom that one day, and I think that's an incredible role model and anincredible just way to be. Like look, like I can see a system thatwould work better for me and I just need like your support to makethat happen. And obviously she had incredible people around her to make that happen, but I think just like the the boldness to kind of like this,know what you need and then actually just vocalize that. I mean, Ithink that's half the battle. So I think she's been truly inspirational in formativefor me. That's awesome. Well, I'm definitely going to look her up. I hadn't heard of her before. When you think about you know,you just mentioned you're downloading all these books off of Amazon, and so whatare some of the books that you've been reading that have had an impact onyou that we can sort of follow the bread come trailer? I'd get somebin insights from. Oh my God, this is so embarrassing. I'm readingeverything from like the Challenger sale to the challenger customer to fanatical prospecting to predictableprospecting, and the most hilarious thing about fanatical prospecting had, you know,had tipped Jeb Blount's basically like he'll still say things like, you know,the difference in sales between wearing like a role x and a time X isprospecting. You're like, this is amazing. When was this book written? Itwas written in like two thousand and sixteen, two thousand and seventeen.So it's like it was written in one thousand nine hundred and eighty two.But I think he's absolutely right. It's like, you know people who arelike Ush, like I forgot, you know, Shit, I forgot toprospect, and then that's where you are. And so I think there's like abunch of books like that. And then, obviously, you know,there's lead of the kind of classic like be to be enterprise ones, andso you know, again they are and Ross Pantheon. And then there's justlike a ton of ones that I'm reading like, you know, the talentcode, Culture Code, Dan Poyle, like what it means to be highperforming teams, and so stuff like that. I think is also super helpful.Just look like again, like in the end, people are people andso there's something behind them that makes the tick and you're all the better forwardif everyone could have an open conversation and yet to what that is so fanatical. Prospecting is the one that you just mentioned. Why are you laughing?I'M gonna look it up because because somehow that's like this is gonna like comeback to me where I'm like, I made like I thought it was hilarious. The difference between like driving, you know, this car in that carcomes down to prospecting. But I guess you know at the core, butit's probably true. Well, I guess it's about goal setting and about doingstuff that you don't feel like doing. And you know who doesn't want toroll x? Absolutely I used to want a roll x, but then Igot an Apple Watch and the problem is that a roll x couldn't do likemy heart rate and calorie counting and all that other exercise stuff. So I'mlike, I don't really even know if I'd ever wear it if I hadone. So there you go. Apple solved your entire problem exactly. Totallylowered my expectations from us. Now I don't need a Twentyzero one. Dan, I assume you guys are growing or hiring or if people out there arehearing this, and you know they want to. They want to get intouch with you. Maybe they want to have a coffee with you or theywant to apply for a job at facebook. Are you okay with listeners reaching outto you, and what's your preferred mechanism, if so? Yeah,of course so, probably I think the best bet would to be email methe directly. It's Diane Chang, diacchng at fbcom. And Yeah, andso I mean posting is on our website. We keep pretty fairly up to date, and so that would be your...

...best bet to see if there's anopening. But yeah, we're excited to grow this team. Awesome, Diane, thanks so much for joining us on the PODCAST and I'll see you.I'll see you very soon. Thanks so much. It's been so nice tobe here. By Bye. Hey, folks, this is Sam's corner.Really enjoyed that conversation with Diane Chang Wardy from facebook. Diane walked through alot of different frameworks and a couple of them are really just about agency inyour life and I think it's an important mindset. She talked about this conceptof the protagonist framework. If you're late, don't say it was because the train. How many people have heard that in their lives when somebody's rolling intoa meeting five minutes late and they're always blame and public transportation. And insteadof doing that, flip that on its head and say, you know what, I could have left five minutes earlier. It's about taking accountability and responsibility,which in the moment may feel like you're punishing yourself, but in thelong term what it does is give you control, give you back control overyour life. The other thing that she mentioned is, and other people havethe podcast have mentioned it, if you see an opportunity, don't don't sortof self monitor yourself. If you don't ask, you can't get right.So, if you think that you're a good candidate for a potential role,want to you raise your head, raise your hand and lean it, especiallyif you're a woman, I have to say, because you know when whenthey've done gender studies, sometimes it is women who are a little bit morereserved who will who are calibrating their expertise relative to the role in a moremeasured way. And you don't have to do that. If you think thatyou can contribute, get out of your comfort zone and go for that role. Go for that opportunity, particularly if it lines up with your career ambitions. And that's the final part of Diane's message that I think is really important. She said every five to ten years, you know, figure out your why, figure out what is your true motivation, and go five layers deep, she said, you know, get a friend that can keep saying why? Why do you want to do that? Why is that motivating to you?And I think that that's really, really important, and I've done thatrecently for myself, just figuring out what gets me out of bed every dayand why do I want to exist, besides just making lots and lots andlots and lots and lots of money, which of course I want to do. But but it's not really about that would for me, it's about helpingother people, and it really is about helping people that I particct, thatin particular, that I respect, that take agency and work their asses off. Those are the people I want to see if I can accelerate their careersin some way, give them a boost and help them achieve their goals.And that's that's why I started the revenue collector for that exact purpose, andthat came out of an exercise of self reflection and actually working with a personalcoach. So figure out what motivates you and use that to set five andten your goals, which is also a lesson that Danny Hertzberg from slack hasalso mentioned on the podcast. Now, before we go, we want towe want to give a shout out to our sponsors before we part air.Call Your Advanced Call Center software, complete business phone and contact center, onehundred percent natively integrated into any serum and outreach, a customer engagement platform thathelps efficiently and effectively engage prospects to drive more pipeline and close more deals.You'll find this podcast on itunes, Google play, spotify or anywhere that youenjoy your podcasts. And if you enjoy this episode, please share with yourpeers on Linkedin, twitter, share it on your internal company slack. That'sa new request. Put that out there and sort of the general channel,but, you know, tell people about it, because that's what keeps uson the air and that's what helps us bring great content and great guests.And if you want to get in touch with me, find me on twitteror find me on Linkedin. Linkedin's probably better for professional correspondence that's Linkedincom theword in and then Sam f Jacobs, or you can just Google Sam Jacobs. Behave ox and I will show up. So thanks for listening. We willtalk to you next time and hope you had a great new year.

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