The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

39. How to Build a Startup Inside One of the World’s Biggest Tech Companies with Diane Chang Wardi, Growth Lead, Facebook

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This week on the Sales Hacker podcast, we talk to Diane Chang Wardi, one of the sales leaders running and building the Workplace by Facebook initiatives within the global Facebook organization.  Diane originally hails from the fashion industry before joining entering the tech world via Google and then Facebook. She’s tasked with the daunting role of building a traditional B2B enterprise sales team the most recognizable consumer tech company on the planet.

One two one twe three FO everybody at Sam Jacobs and welcome tothe sales hacker podcast. If my math is correct, I think this should be twusendand nineteen that you're listening to this, and if so I hope you had a happynew year and if it's still, two thousand and eighteen then fantastic. I hope you're lookingforward to two thousaan nineteen. I don't know what to tell you this week,we've got a great show: We've got Diane Shang Bordy, who is leading enterprisegrowth for the East Coast for workplaced by Facebook, which is theretheir enterprise collaboration tool that is nestled within the broaderfacebook consumer organization. So it's really interesting story about how tobuild a start up within this big Corpora dentity that is focused on atotally different market, which is the consumer world and Diann's got anincredible background. She was in strategic partnerships: Ai Google,before she was a facebook and she's had a bunch of diferent rules. So she talksabout sort of how to take advantage of your career, how to navigate yourcareer and now to make sure that when there's an opportunity, sort of lean inand seize the day and raise your hand for that opportunity. So it's a greatit's a great conversation and she sort of walks through her personalphilosophies, including having a protagonist framework which is reallyinteresting. So listen on for that before we dive in. We want to think oursponsors. The first desare call a phone system designed for the modern salesteam, ercall seamlessly integrates into your crm, eliminating data entry foryour reps and providing with greater visibility into your teams performancethrough advanced reporting. When it's time to scale you can add new lines andminutes and use incall coaching to reduce ramtime for your new reps visitair, called that Il for ash sales hacker to see why a million greatcompanies are using air call. Our second sponsor is outreach. That'soutreached out! I owe the leaving sales ngagement platform utwhich triples theproductivity of sales teams. End Empowers them to drive predictable andmeasurable revenue growth by prioritizing the right activities inscaling. Customer engagement with intelligent automation, autrige makescustomer facing teams more effective and improves hisability into whatreally drives herselves to go over tho out reach Atao forward slash salestacker that is outreached on Io Forard, slesh sales, tacker to see ow thousandsof customers, including cloudair glassdoor, Pandora Zilo, and on and onAndon Reli on outreached to deliver higher revenue for Sales Rep. lastly,as many of you know, I am part of Global Advocacy Organization forcommercial executives called the revenue collective. We are now inToronto, Denfer, Boston, Lonton, New York and I probably forgetting oneAmsterdam where Andre Brussell e Coo of hate, hotel, champ started that chapter,but if you're in a different market somewhere out there and you'reinterested in starting off a revenuet, collective chapter drop me a line. Youcan reach me at Linkdincom, inlash, Sam f Jacobs. So that's a littleannouncement for the REVEENT cqlective now without further Du. Let's listen toDian Jhaing Mordy from facebook. In this week's episode of the Sales Hackerpodcast everybody it, Sam Jacobs, welcome backto the sales hacker podcast. We are incredibly excited if I've done my mathright, it is now two thousand and nineteen and so- and if it's not twothousand and nineteen will have, I hope, you're having a good two thousand andeighteen, but it should be two thousand and nineteen. But that's not the point.The point is that we're really excited for this week's guest. She is a memberof the revenue collective, but, more importantly, Dian Shang Wordy is theenterprise growth lead for workplace by facebook? So, in her role she leadsworkplaces. Commercial presents on the East Coast, she's going to tell us allabout workplace if you're not familiar with it. It is their enterprise,software solution, obviously for enterprises and she's building a go tomarket sales team. That looks a lot like and is be to be en a price saleswithin the construct of the global facebook organization. So it's going tobe a super interesting conversation. Prior to this role, she was the chiefof staff for Nickola Mendelson, facebooks VP of Amia. Earlier N, hercareer, she spent a number of years at Google leading strategic partnershipswith top e commerce companies in the UK, and she holds a Ba from Princeton andan MBA from Harvard business school, so she's, smart Diane, welcome to the showgreat thanks somemone for having me Sam.

We are excited to have you so, let'sjust dive into it b. So for the listeners out there, facebook is apublic company. Normally we would go into Dianne's baseball card Wen we toask about Arr- and you know all of those financial metrics that privatecompanies have, but we can all look up facebooks ten K if we want to knowabout how big they are and what they're up to so, let's hear about you Diane,first of all tell us what is enterprise, tell us about workplace for facebook orworkplace by facebook and give us a little bit about of the origin story,because I think it's really interesting, yeah, of course. Okay, so we're placedby facebook an in a quick sound by Youvan, think of it as a privatefacebook for the organization, I'm actually started it as an internal tool,I'm so basically in two Thusanda Leven Mork locer book gets up on stage at FAand he talks about thank back to a time where facebook did not have groups, andwe would announce that as a feature. So it was a place for friends and familyto get together and at the time the organization facebook had grown soquickly that it actually felt. While we were on stage talking about newinnovative features and the new type of company that facebook was actuallyinternally, we had grown so quickly that things were locked in silo, soemails meetings, Etcet so one enterprising engineer basically tookgroups and made it available for just facebook, the organization and itactually kind of changed everything overnight, and so, when we think about,as the organization grew, the most important thing is that people haveaccess to information, so they can make the best decision. That's liteally, notthe people that are just in the meeting rooms or on the senior email threatsthat are making the decisions, and so it was a very deliberate managementdecision, since two thousand and eleven to actually make what we call Ifacebook at work, I think and then along the way we got to love questionsfrom people who would ask about. You know how his facebook brought peoplealong in the journey as it's grown so quickly, and we realized like in someways we used facebook to make facebook facebook so e. We took it, I mean a lotof it. I think companies are like that right. You know in some instances you eyou look at Arros, he'll, say Sall sporce, mad sols for sales. Worse, soan this instance, it feels very relevant, and so in two thousand andfifteen we made an available in Fata and theur. First, paying customer wasthe Royal Bank of Scotland who was in a gually opposite business than facebook,but they had basically invested a lot in external advocacy after H, financialcrisis and wanted to do more for their employee base, and so it's grown fromthere. We renamed it to work place in two thousand, and sixteen facebook atwork was very confusing for the external market, and now we've gotthirty thozand organizations using it from Walmart, starbuck Delta to the tenperson Nail Salon. That's Roun, the corner wow and your you're running thatare you allowed to tell us how big your team is? Yes and so in New York, and weactually have a landing team in New York. So we just put people here a yearago, and so we've got three in sales, two in customer success and onesolutions architect, and so it's just a straight up. Pod function, butworkplays, interestingly, is the first product of facebook to be fully builtoutside of Menlo Park and so again because it was like an internal sideproject. There were a couple of engineers working on it in London andit's now grown to an organization of maybe a hundred hundred fifty people onthe commercial side and that as well as on product wow awesome. Well, I want tosort of deeply dig in, but let's start with with you and how did you get tothis role, we heard in your bio that you were sort of you went to Princetonand HBS, but how did we? How did you find your way to facebook in the firstplace? Give this a little a little bit about your background sure it's a goodquestion, and so I mean I think, generally, I infoay into tech startedin a place that you wouldn't necessarily expect, and that actuallywas because I started my career in fashion UN, for all the amazing thingsthat fashion brings. I think my advantage and intrit and entry pointinto it made me feel like. Actually, I wanted to work on something with liketrue scale, and so, if he wanted scale, I went to somewhere that, where I gotit in, that was Google and I thin from there. I basically got hooked andpletely spoiled on what it meant, for you know, a thought: A product, aproject to have such impact for people's daily lives, and so throughthere you know, had Aa variety of different partnerships, roles that tookme to London, Mountain view, Etceera and then my journey docxtap facebookwas just a continuation of that pime bat contenual. I think, hunt for impactind scale, but the interesting thing I...

...think, while I' done a lot ofpartnerships role. Having done that, I actually ended up taking a chief AFstaff role in London for our VP of MEA, which is Europe Middle East and Africa.It's quite a corporate distinction to call it Amia and but that basicallygave me exposure to kind of the whole business in a way. That probably wouldthat it would take some time for me to see other advantage points of thebusiness. So I'm thinking about coms policy areas of the business thatdidn't necessarily work around just the coar Sila that I was in, and I thinkthe interesting thing about that is. You would imagine. Okay. When peopletalk to leaders of Facebook, they couldn' ask anything right. They couldask anything from how does facebook feel about XYZ policy to what are youdoing on ABC product, but the single biggest thing that people want to askand talk about was facebooks culture. How have you scaled it? You know peoplewould always say things about. Actually it really feels like I'm trying to getmy messages out and how does facebook do it? And, interestingly, so much ofthat conversation just came back to to poor place, and so I felt like it wascoming up ind, so many conversations that when it was time to look for mynext role, along with a personal move to New York, it seemed pretty clear cutto me that I was really excited to build out what place could be for theEast Coast and you're in a sales leadership role- and I think you knowso. Your commercial roles before had been running sort of partnerships teams.Are you noticing a difference? Does it feel completely natural? You know, howare you approaching sort of this new set of responsibilities? So I thinksome things do feel completely natural, and I think this may be both. I thinklearned at the kne of my previous Bosson and a broad facebook thing. 'Just like people are people right, so whether you're like selling someone onthe opposite side or you're, building a partnership. Fundamentally, what you'retrying to do is like have a thought, have a vision, guide and educate andthen get to that that piece. I think what will feel slightly different ore,a couple of the things of just like the rigor of what is it BTB sale versus howI thought about partnerships in the past and I've worked on it on revierevenue parterships previously, but it feels completely different. I think inthis aspect of how we think about it, and I think when you talk to salesleaders who were doing we to be software sales, in particular I'vecompletely marvelled at the discipline and the Pantheon of knowledge thatexists in these sales leaders of just how similar the issues are right. Youcould be at sales leader for twenty five years and Yit can be a salesleader for six months and you're still kind of thunder, mititilly figuring out.Okay, we know, where is the line between oursalves and marketing team?How do we get them to work together? How do you think about Youorkdemandgion? How do you think about sale cycle optanization, and so I love thatbecause I think I've found it a very welcoming and incredible community ofsuch smart switched on sometimes very high descable leaders that are sowilling to talk about anything from the most entry level to the most advanced,and so I think, that's been some of the biggest challenge and then also some ofthe biggest surprise. So how are you I mean? It's super interesting, first ofall, just scaling the culture and obviously share what you're comfortablesharing. But how do you introduce or be part of the team that is introducing? Iguess you know it's two thousand and sixteen. It sounds like when things youknow got into Beta, but still a relatively new effort to introduce theconcept of traditional btob sales inside this global consumerorganization. How do you do that? What's your strategy for doing that,and what's the timeline for you to feel like you're, making the right impact, Iguess if you guys have thirty tsand different organizations using it you'vealready mean already made an impact. But how do you think about it yeah, soI think we feel really lucky, because we will always ask why why isfacebookin this space, like wouldn't, actually have to go into the enterprisespace and for US acxually, if you think about it, like Basebook, changed itsmission last year to be centered around giving people the power to buildcommunity and bring the world closer together, and so actually, if you thinkabout like your most Argu late and maybe not your most important communitybut for many people, their most important community and the one thatyou spend the most time with it is your work and so for us, we feel likeworkplace is a fundamentally important way to bring people into communities intheir workplace, and so I think from there we feel very lucky within thelarger facebook ECAUS system. That think this is a huge Betan investmentfor facebook. And so, if you look at our three five ten year road map, as wetalk about our products, we're in the...

...same company as instagraming messengerso for the workplace team. We feel really proud about that. And? U thinkthat's really good company, but that's TAT. Again I mean, if you're working onconsumer businesses, it's so easy for instagram and Messenger to tout theirhuge user, CCOUNTS or monthly active people and for workplace that it willfeel somewhat different because we're in a different stage with the business.But that's that I think it comes with both strength and then things air areasto develop on. So I think the the great part about it is with facebooksconsumer DNA. The whole point is like what we care about is getting people touse the product. So I think, while there are more traditional benchmarksand milestones as you think, about building enterprise business, we stilltake that lens to what it means about workplace, and it just means that allwe want to do is build great products that people want to use. And then, ifyou go in in and you talk to people who have been in the enterprisecollaboration software space and have potentially invested in previous ones,all they will do and tell you whether they're hr it coms pick your persona.Is that like we bought something, it seemed great it ticked every box on theMatrix, and yet people don't use it. So I think we feel really lucky, becausewe at least have a track record of building products that people use onthe opposite side, I mean. The funny thing is what it means to build. AnEnterprise Organization within a large consumer organization is just some ofthe like the milestones of what that means. So, for example, you know wewere building an SDR function. It wasn't one that was familiar tofacebook until basically, you built an enterprise sales organization so goingthrough that concept of what is an organization look like and and what arethe things actually that we need as a base line? And then you know some ofthe other things ave just like how we think about our legion and demand. Genwill be very different from some of the other areas of facebooks business. Sothat's something that weve also have to explore and strike. The right balanceis your Legon. Is it sort of this concept of product qualified leads, Imean, is there like a? Is it a freemium platform, tell us a little bit moreabout like the product itself, and I guess my question is: Does it compete Imean? Is it a slack competitor? Is it a yamer competitor? How do we sort of fitit into? You know the right category, yeah. Of course it's a great questionand even I think, the enterprise collaboration space. If you were to h,Google, like enterprise collaboration, space, You'ill, get fifteen differentarticles which will tell you either like it's slack or its M or chatterdrive. But fundamentally, actually we think our biggest competition is emailand that sounds kind of like okay. What does that actually mean, but I meanguarantee everyone who is collaborating in a company is sending communicationson email. It is the most like entrenched technology you can think ofand so for us actually, we think there's a huge opportunity to starteven with something as simple of revolutionizing topdown collaboration,because most of that is still done via email. Your CEO or your senior leaderwell send an email to you know one hundred two hundred fifty twohundredhousand people and unless you were the intern that mess misse thememo. You do not reply all to that email and all that means is that youdon't actually get two a conversation organization, whereas if you put it insomething, that's a little bit more familiar which, by like by definition,there is a blanket says, reply write a comment like you're asking for feedback,and it's not so scary, to reply back to your Senou when he posts it or when hegoes, live or uses something, that's like actually how people communicate intwo thousand and nineteen, and so I think, that's kind of where we think weplay and there's a lot of people who have tried other things. So some of thenames that you've mentioned a obviously are great products. But I think what wehave found is that there's an incredible adoption across an entireorganization and so back to the idea of bringing you know making a company intoa community. This not only takes your tech team or your accounting team,where your HR team, but the whole gool, is really to bring everyone in ateerquestion on business model. So we have two options. We have both standardwhich is free and then premium, but most people, I think offor premium usbecause it comes with some controls, like you know, for an admond panel, forexample. So anything I think above a ten person organization would want thatand our fist same model is like three dollars: permonthly active person. Soagain we we charge on an active usage rather than seats and that's anotherexample. I think what we're talking about. If we really care, we wantpeople to use the product rather than thinking about what more traditionalpricing options. When you think about like the the rly- and I guess my I'm just super interested inI'm always interested in the concept of like building these btobeer enterprisebusinesses within like a broader...

...ecosystem like a broader consumerbusiness like facebook. So do you guys have like your own marketing team whenyou're thinking about rly? Has it been a struggle to sort of develop all ofthe right traditional enterprise sales collateral to help the sales team beeffective, yeah and I think for us it's still very much a work in progress andso and even thinking through like what it means for a product to beheadquartered in in London and built out of London. So that means those wereour first sale cycles right. So what sells in the enterprise collaborationspace and in Mei may be different than an apath may be different in NorthAmerica and Latam. So I think that's definitely something we're stilllearning so, for example, culture may resonate with a certain stead of CEOS,but others will find that fluffy and like what they actually want to measureis impact to their bottom line. And so, if I think about our marketing team,for example, I mean I think, they've done an incredible job of just gettingworkplace out there and still figuring out how we tell our enterprise storyand what we're leading with, because I think I think back trying to explainwhat facebook was when you were like. First on it, and you ask your friend toget on it. You're like it's photos, but it's news, Feed D, ETCEA and I thinkfor us what we're doing is really trying to crystallize. Actually whatthis could be, which is it's both feature rich, but also very targeted inwhat we want to do for an organization. But sometimes I mean, I think, tryingto distil that in. In you know, ten copy display ad can be tricky, and sowe're still working through that. But it's, I think, a good problem to havewhat kind of sales people have you found to be effective, and you know Imean it's a common question across all sales leadership, but when you thinkabout the ideal profile, what are the qualities for the specific type ofsales motion that have emerged? A sort of Determinat of success? Yeah, it'sinteresting, so I think also you know. Workplace has gone through aninteresting evolution as we started in the market. Obviously you have the namerecognition from the Parenbran, but not a lot of other people. I thinkunderstood what it was and again we took it to market with like facebook atwork. So I think in the earlier stagas you really needed somebody who wouldlike sell the sition right. What this could be. It's a new way of running acompany and a lot of the pieces around that and so kind of the classic, like Ihate to use the Jeffrey more type methodology, but like a hundred percentapplies right, are you getting charismatic business leaders who cansee what this is and then I as like? Obviously, as the salesof like cyclegoes on, then people have more questions right than you're dealingwith a Fortun two thousand it company, and then I think we feel really excitedabout the progress and how we've we've met that challenge, and so some of ourrecent customers, we've announced our ASTRASENICA votaphone, glaksow Smith,cline, and so, as you get into those industries, youve imagine that theyhave. I most rigoriush checks in the world of what they want to accomplish.Our WY security etce and we've been able to make that happen, and so Ithink, for a broader perspective, that evolution has then meant ouniduesales people who are very like just basically adoptable right, who canactually sell a vision and tell that story and and Italy that, as as thebaseline, but then also be like proficient enough to talk through whatit actually means for a security check, and I think probably the second piecewe're finding to be really successful is somebody who can say like okay, I'mgoing to tell you. This is how we think about collaboration at Facebook, andthis is what Wev learned from our base of customers about how collaborationcommunication are happening and the enterprise today, what ill look like intwo years and five years, and you may not be ready to figure out how that'sgoing to work in your organization, but I'm going to tell you how these are thepeople that you need to go galvanize. This is the story that you need to tellf you're the common questions you're going to get, and so it really is thiskind of guiding educational peace. I think of o sales, people Ho weren'tafraid to say actually, like I fully hear you and I just like I disagree,but because I care enough about your organization and Tus the future of itto tell you and so that's. I think what we've seen transfer the mostsuccessfully to workplace skill set. So that's almost like a challengermethodology. You know, leading with commercial inside and talking tocustomers about sort of their business and presenting it a new way, yeah,absolutely o Mea. So when you, you know, you've been a Google and you've been atfacebook, and I think, there's probably a lot of people out there who are either at high growth companies,or maybe some of them are at big companies and trying to figure out howdo they become you and like how do they...

...navigate these organizationseffectively and continue moving up the ladder? What are when you think about?What's made you successful at you know: Google and Facebook, these two hugecompanies, companies that are driving sort of the technical evolution of theworld. What do you Attributeid to? What are the skills that you think you'verelied on that have really helped you like? How does somebody else sort offollow on your footsteps? Wow, wow? What a nice question! I think some of the things that I canthink I don't think it's like one thing in particular right and everyone willkind of always classically say like what's the difference between like hardwork or lucky break, and I think kind of classically people will say well,it's the hard work that gets you to your louky break and for me I do feelvery lucky. I've had a lot of great opportunities along the way in betweenthese different organizations, but I'd say if there were a couple of thingsthat cu that I pinpoint so one is really just like. If you see somethingand you're interested in it, like don't be afraid to go, have the conversationor ask a question and I think I'd be you'd, be surprised by having peoplejust don't do that that being just like the literal tablestakes of step one andso, for example, like a Google, when I wanted to do strategic partnerships,basically everyode told me, I was way too junior to go. Do it right? I hadyou know: Google. I just signed an agreement with apples, boage maps onthe launch of the Apple iphone, and I, but this is literally two thousand andseven- and I was like that's cool who signs that agreement who pays whomEtceta Etcra and then you know everyone was like. Well it's this very, likefancies, rortegic partnerships team, but again you're going to need like tenwore years experience. So if you want to go, do partnerships like quickGoogle go to like you know, a smaller company that allow you to dopartnerships. I was like okay. Well, that sounds like a pretty drastic move,and so then you basically just find someone on the team and it seeyou knowGoo like. Are you happy to have a thirty minute chat and with most peopleready to have a have a thirty minute chat which led to a six month maternitycover on that team, which led to a full time role? But I've like seen that timeand time again, and even if I look at roles like even for hiring my replaceEfer chieve, a staff roll a lot of people- basically just didn't like gofor the role because they were like they thought. Oh I'm not sure, I'mready for it or Etcetea, but like that, you already like put yourself out ofthe running to begin with, and I think I felt really surprised seeing thatthat cycle, happene and so I'd say. The biggest thing I would say, is literallyjust like: There's nothing wrong. Just go. Have the thirty minute conversationthere's literally zero downside to it, and then you mentioned a few lessons.What are some of the other, so one of them is like raise your hand and sortof jump at the opportunity and you know. But what else do you think? Are thereother sort of management skills? And I guess one of the other questions is- ishow do you go from being an individual contributor to a manager and what areyour thoughts on sort of what is representative of a great manager? Thisis a kind of all over the place, but bigly interested in that yeah by the amweree going to get through thit. This is going to be like a good managementbook that we're going to finish hope. No, so so I think okay, so a couple ofthings, I think abect the kind of first question of other things. I think thatare important to remember. I think you don't necessarily have to have a steeron like what your fifteen year plan is. WBUT have a sense of like what yournext is after your next, and so again that doesn't mean like you would havefully figure it out. What like Ou k, what you're going to be when you growup, but if you know that like so, for example, if you wante to be a managerat some point and start to figure out like okay. Well, then, maybe, if not mynext role, then what would allow me to be a manager in my next one and ofcourse, there's a lot of sole searching conversations that go alongside withthat of like do you want to be a manager? Do you care about investing inteams and other people's Development and influencing to produce outcomes,but at least you've done some of that thought work and I actually found it.We like pretty surprising, even n, influction points where so, for example,you know likeclassic like business school application essays, which youwould imagine are pretty like stock and barrel, but they actually ask you whatsound like very trite questions like you know. What do you want like whatdrives you and why, but actually be like take a step back and whetheryou're applying to school or not it like actually just thinks like. Okay,like what actually is the fifth level answer to that question, not the firstone of the second one, but if, like my best friend, were to keep asking me whylike? Why do I actually want to do something? And if you can get to thatpoint where you have like a pretty good answer, maybe every five or ten years,I think hat's a pretty good guiding North Star. So you don't end up in likesome industry and function. That has nothing to do with what you wouldactually have drawn for yourself, and...

...so I think I've like done that a coupleof times and just had the discipline to do it, because it is a discipline andit is a process in the same way where you easily could get distracted by yourday to day to the business of work. The business of Personal Life Etcet is tomake that happen en me. Let Me Lot, I enterject real quick, so why do you?What is your I mean this is fa. This is really important because I thinkthere's so many people out there listening that they're trying to figureout what is hat. I mean I hate to sound Clichet. But what is there? Why? So,when you've done that every couple of years like what's the most recent, Imean, if you're comfortable, sharing it's probably pretty personal but likewhat does motivate you? What does propel you forward, of course, and so Ithink for me actually when I did like the list, and some of this is like thelittle like the practical tips on our like Wrighe down like five moments,where you felt like man, I like accomplishe that- and I was the ownlike this- is I think I accomplishd it in a way that nobody else would have,because I cared about something that somebody else wouldn't have I mean thatcan be both personal and professional, and so I think what I cared about anddoing that like it was literally everything from things at work where Ihad like stayed long were on a project and everyone else is like, let's justGev Aout, this is stupid and I'm like no do I really care about this to evenpersonal things where I'm like. I want a Bobb and beyond on that, like so, forexample, like planming a trip and I'm like okay. Well, what's the commonthread between these things and y actually lik think about it? I actuallyreally care about, like, I think, creating the experiences and like thestories that people like that people heare and have, and I think thatcontinually has been a thing- that's led me through. I mean I'e loved inevery single Wule when I've been able to like latch onto what is a vision,and I think that's what drives me about the workplace of like there is a visionof what work could be, and I really care about like people, understandingthat having that experiencein experience go with that, go throughthat with me, even if, like you know, six months into it, they're going to belike actually now, like you know, we may have signed an agreements t twelvemonths ago with a previous provider. I'm like I really care about you havingan experience where your work is fundamentally better, and so I thinkthat's been srure. I think througrhout my old career, like thinking through,like what is an experience that you think people should have, and how canyou help them? Have that wow? That's I mean that's th, that's really reallypowerful stuff so and th. That's kind of propelled, you the whole way. I meanI I interrupted you before, but so tell us what else s you know like youryou're you're, taking stockyou're sort of pushing forward and you're thinkingabout like what motivates you? What else? What other lessons do you havefor people as they think about sort of pursuing, and I guess one of the otherones that you just mentioned, is you know, raising your hand and making surethat you lean in on the opportunity and probably like maybe tackling thingsthat you feel you might not be completely ready for? Does that sound,Agru Yeah? Definitely, and I think maybe the last one is like just havinglike a somewhat contra from what I was just saying like have an idea of whatyour next is after you're next, but I think I feel really lucky to have hadinternational experience for a big chunk in my career. So I worked inLondon for before and after business schools of seven years in total, and Ithink what hit was incredible about that. Is it just basically likereoriented yourself ar running completely different teographic accessand then just the idea that, like your inputs, are going to come fromdifferent places and if you assume that your inputs are always s going to comefrom like one straight path? That's not actually true, and so I think justputting yourself in a position where you seek out, and that doesn't meanhave to necessarily mean geography, but just where you think you'll get to apoint where you get enough interdisciplinary inputs, I meanbasically every great like leader and thinker and invention out. There hasbeen because, like somebody has seen things that haven't been seen beforeand putting yourself in a position where you are exposed to new thingslike what naturally does that, for you so I'd say, that's kind of e. The thirdpart of you know my management: How to be successful, treatis. Well, I meanpeople are listening. So so I think it's helpful. One of the things thatyou've talked to me about is is sort of this concept of like the protagonistmindset. So tell us what that is and walk us through. That framework yeah,so this one I' I have to credit to a thinker and an a leader named FredCoffman, who wrote a book called conscious business and within conciousbusiness. He introduces his framework of basically like the protagonistmindset right. So this is like classic okay somebody's late to a meeting inthe morning and you ask them like: Oh, you know, or they ru they rush intheyre like H, coffee, spilled on them and then you're like. What's up andthey're like? Oh, there was terrible...

...traffic, and so the protactinesbasically is like to flip that mindset and say, like actually, I know, there'straffic every single day and I late, because I didn't leave enough room now.On the one hand, that can sound like totally like man. This is like a hardframework on one, because then you're always basically taking responsibility,but the idea is that there is a spectrum right between a protagonistand a victim, and the victim is the one that's like I couldn't do anythingthere was traffic and then protating us is like. I didn't leave enough time. Soin the future. I know that I have agency to leave another ten minutes andhow does that translate across Seno everything right, both personal andprofessional, and so in an interaction with you know a close friend like whatdoes it mean to actually like take ownership of Thad, and then certainly Imean you'll know this better than anyone but building like you in astartup environment. There's like going to be crazy things that happen to you,and sometimes you will have to acknowledge that look. Maybe thestructure wasn't right. This wasn't set up for success. We should have thoughtabout that six months ago, but it all kind of like stems around Ken. Do youhave like the the even the first sliver of white to be able to say? Actually Itake responsibility for that like I should have done x, even if it's like,I should have thought about that six months ago or twelve months ago, and Ididn't so. The only thing that prevents you for like just means that youprobably will think about it when you come to that similar situation in thefuture and so within the work place team. I think it's very interestingwithin North America, again usually in North America, you have the veryluxurious position of your product team sitting in likely in California, orpretty close to you and again, I think, for the workplace team. It's a verygood experience for all of us that are lo or London as our product team andour commercial head qorters. So it stretches a lot of skills and like whatthat means to be in touch with your product team, getting feedback and justthe additional work it takes to make sure communication is working, but,alongside with that, it means also in North America, we've been reallyfocused on adopting an protagonous mindset, meaning like just in case. Youfeel like that product feedback didn't get back like it's. You know one thingto be like well, I sent the aimail ond stuff thing would be like I didn't hearbath and I didn't follow up, and so I think that's something that we'vereally had to take to heart and also na key for basically just a small teamthat can feel far away from from a commercial, an product. Ten quarters.Do you guys have like a differenfor, an hiring methodology or like? Are youlooking for different types of people for workplace by facebook than thebroader facebook consumer organization, and does that impact I mean? How doesthat impact you? If at all, I don't, I wouldn't say that it's kind of it'sdifferent, I mean. Certainly I think there are course skills sor Freeono,some of the conversation we've been having around having an enterprisebackground that is going to be much more helpful to you. The sellingworkplace, rather than many potential other sale skill sets. But that said, Ithink you know facebook broadly, and this will always be kind of like thefirst filter of what does it mean to to succeed it facebook, and I think therewill be things of you know, being able to work cross functionally right. Ithink this is an organization like many matrix organizations, where a lot ofyour success is built Onlie, how quickly you can build relationships andunderstand that, like you, your success doesn't happen just by yourself, whichthere arether organizations where that actually does happen, but that'ssomething that really won't work at facebook and just just givin ourhistory in the way that we've grown, and so that's, I think, a key one thatwe think about when we bring people into the organization. I think thesecond one in classically. Everyone will tell you adaptability, but again Imean I think that that also applies to how we think about workplace, and Imean, interestingly, a lot of the people who started the workplace teamor long time. facebookers and hadn't sold enerprise software before, but thereason they were successful as they could tell you basically what theVision F as like this is how we think we should run at company right. In someinstance, we were talking a little bit about how we thought about culture andobviously, as the product expanded. Then we see how this manifest thatother people's organizations so have thes stories dofeetid and now it's amuch richer conversation about what culture whuld employe engagement,Etcetra looks like now, but that said, you kind of need you be able to likeadapt to that change, and I think you know every time you're starting a newbusiness within facebook. You want to bring in that Facebook da and thenobviously you know, subject matter expertise. How did you guys think aboutbringing in you know enterprise sales expertise into this new business unit?Did you hire a bunch of consultants? Did you read a bunch of books? What didyou guys embrace? A specific sales methodology tell us a little bit aboutthat evolution yeah. So I don't know if we'v settled on sales particular salesmethodology and then certainly the book...

...reading you'll M. my entire team laughbasically because I feel, like I wal, like I'm Amazon's best customer everysingle day, but I think every sales person at this point may we haven'tlike settled on one and so I's, basically just working on what worksfor them and we kind of have a joke. You know, so we have a sales leader wholeads our NEA region and he's like an incredibly charismatic but also veryforceful person, and he can say stuff that I would never be able to get awayin a sales pitch. So he'll like get in there like start the pitch and just sayit's too late, you're already too late and people will pausei be like what areyou juing Bot n, like you know, an amazing conversation, an amazing Frenchackent he's, like your people, are already communicating on. What's atthey're already on consumer facebook, they're already out there with yourenterprise data, you've completely missed it. Okay, like think about me,saying that, like that would never happen, it would just never be like mypersonaiyy, my pitch, but it's very effective when he says it everyone'salways like. Oh, my God, I'm too late, and so I would love to find that spinfor me, whereas I'm going in talking about like you, know the vision of acompany and what it will be, but so I think all that is to say we're not yetthere there's a lot of room for personality and how people approach it,but I think you know, as obviously the organization grows up, we willstandardize it and and bring in kind of core enablement function so that if itdoesn't feel like if you're brand new- and you aren't a natural youre too latetype of person, that is you you're. Not. You have your some other tools to fallback upon M and I eed you guys. You guys use like Crm, I mean do Yuu salesforce or some kind of se. Are you adopting and embracing? You know otherelements of like traditional SASB to be sales or wor? Is it a lot of like stillhome grown facebook tools to sort of go to market? Oh Kno? In that I regard Imean, I think we use sales force and we were using CELES force. Even when itWasnan enterprise business and so that as a base lide and the you know, we'rea happy customer of sales loft and so there's a lot of other things. I thinkthat we're bringing into the organization and still exploring again,I think you know we're on a on a path to kind of figure out how to we makeeveryone most efficient and, like you know, it's we think about it, like theteam is pretty lean, if you think about it. So, like I said you know it'sbasically, three sales people for a total team O as seven with cusomersuccess, an solutions architect for the east coast region, and so a lot of thatwill be will scale through service partners and a parter ecosystem, andthat is a you know, a muscle that in some ways we know because facebooksfacebook has a lot of partnership. DNA but that' said also, like you know,fatering out and the enterprise space is new as well and then the oatherthing I mean we brought it incredible leaders, and so we, the person,colieves our global sales. Oranzation now is a is leslie young who came to usfrom box, and I think it's been incredible. What she's built with inthe organization and the change an impact she has been able to kind ofmould with workplace, and so it's a, I think, a perfect marriage of enterprise,history and excellence than what a best. An class organization should look like,plus that facebook, like history and DNA, just like the craziness offacebook in general, one of the you sort of alluded to alittle bit before when you're talking about sort of one of the things thatimpacted your careers. Your you said: If there's an opportunity to make sureyou sort of you raise your hand and go for it and, of course, like the firsttwo words that jump, to my mind at least are leaning, and you know thatfamous book and you are a female sales leader, obviously any advice or hasthat affected you I mean. Obviously gender affects all of us every singleday and just in ways that are conscious and unconscious. But have you developedyour own personal strategy for navigating the workplace? Have you feltlike it's impacted you at all? What advice would you give to to young womenthat are rising up through the ranks? Just always curious? We live in, youknow a changing time and we want to make sure that we're arming everybodywith the tools they need to be successful in their careers. What'syour perspective on that yeah, of course, and so I think my perspectiveon this is kind of changed over time. I think you know earlier in my career. Iwas thinking actually like it shouldn't matter right you, you know somebody isleft for a job who is up for a job and if you're not you know, you should beable to put your hand up. It should be easy and Etcte, and I think, over timeactually and spending more time and thinking a lot about it and thencertainly think working for incredible female leaders is given me even morevinish point on it that actually it's not just like a you know, you shouldjust raise your hand and everyall else follows Tust by the fact that I justliterally gave Mo that advice. So I'm acknowledging that, but on top of that I think actuallywhat it is is there's a couple of...

...things that I think go into it. One, Ithink, is just the acknowledgment that it is important for female leaders andand people who are seemale to like actually think about what they wantthings to look like I and then just go for Tham right, and so I think maybe itjust takes some like being actually planful to make sure that the naturalcircumstances don't end up just meaning that somebody isn't in a place wherethey want to be, and so I think, maybe for me it has been about actuallytaking thist a little bit more thought to make sure that like e defaultdoesn't happen so to speak and second things I would be about like actuallyjust finding like people within the organization that don't necessarilyneed to be like your quot aquote mentor for people who have like qualities thatyou admire and the basically just go like study those qualities and thenlike see what like, what that actually manifest says right. So I ou you openNorth Star for okay, fine. I know that this particular leader, like I'm, surethat she might handle XYZ situation a certain way then actually like, thenthat's your rubrit can road map, and so I think that kind of nodeling is reallyhelpful, even if it doesn't have to be as personal as like a mentorship or oneon one conversation and then third thing I'd say was like actually justlike find your your, like literal people in the workplace, that you feelare like your tinfred spirits, and that doesn't necessarily mean that has to beof the same gender. But people who you think kind of like get, how you thinkand like that you can actually like ban together and bounce ideas off on eachother, and so some people will tell you that's kind of like a personal board,but I will certainly say, for you know big decisions and small, but largelythe big ones. I have you know a set of of friends that I would certainly lookto all of whom, I think, are incredible. Women, who kind of see the worlddifferently than I will and in some ways they like they'll, bully me andtell me that I'm being stupid on one thing and other things being incrediblyencouraging, and I think it's really important to just kind of have that asyou go and again, everyone has friends that you'll go to for differentdecisions, so one on jobs, other non personal, but just like building thatbench, I think, is really important, iin sort of a loaded question, but doyou think, should you modify your behavior towards quote unquote,masculine qualities, particularly in sales? You know there's thesestereotypes about, even though they've largely been debunked, because it'ssort of been shown that introverts or at least amberverts, are probably moresuccessful in sales than sort of typically or stereotypically definedextroverts. But have you found yourself or do you find yourself embracingcertain elements of your personality or modifying your personality based ongender rules? As you look for success or you completely you're, ignoring allof those things and just trying to bet, do your best and etce yeah, some of it,I think, may even be like. I actually don't even know right, so I couldprobably potentially be like more intec like its intense or something in ameeting that I actually have no idea, I will say a revenue Collectiv dinners.My volume level does go up and nosher to so maybe that's themos, that's themost reflective of me trying to you know fit in with the greater team, butI think I look. I think this is going to be easier said than done, but Ithink in the end like there is only so much you can do kind of like trick andenvironment into a personality. I think, like it's exhausting and so some peoplemay have been full masters of it and I give total credents to. There is awhole post of people who have done that and, like, I think, sacrificed eitherpersonality wise or you know disguised truly whor. They were to bring us to where we are in time.That said, I think we are also coming to a moment where the acknowledgmentand the acceptance is that actually, it's exhausting to pretend, like yoursomebody else- and I think actually you know Harvard- did a study that actually,like the productivity game, that's lost out of be like ptending, not to beyourself actually is terrible and 'm very impactful. So if you can thinkabout what unlocks, if you actually are just like tro yourself- and so I liketo be fairly optimistic about it- that we're in a moment where people actuallycan be their trueselves and don't need to modify, but I think probablyclassically people will there's a little bit of just like mirroring, butfor the most part again, I don't think you can like trick people what I saylike you can trick people into dating who you are who you are, and I thinkthat's kind of true in all things, yeah makes a lot of sense, so we're almostat the at the end of Ur of our time together. This has obviously been afascinating conversation, because you know you're doing something soinnovative within this broader context. When you think about one of the thingsthat we like to do in the podcast is sort of pay it forward and talk aboutpeople that have influenced you. So who...

...are some of the people that you thinkwe should know about that? AURE great sales or marketing leaders are justgreat executives that have been. You know, role models for you over the lastcouple of years, yeah. So on that when I'd say hands down, it's pretty easythat it's my former boss, Nicolan Mendelson, who runs facebooks businessin Amea, and I think for that. Actually the most incredible thing is like Ithink, she's the one who actually taught me that you like can bring likeliterally be your whole person, and so Nikola is an incredible visionary salesleader, and I think that said also has like taught me the importance of whatit means: Lik, actually fundamentally, Hav people at the Corpe and so she's,always the person who, like no matter how hectic things seem or intends like,will literally take the ten minutes and like thinks that actually it's afailing or professional relationship. If you don't know, what's going on inthat person's personal life, she's like how can you possibly like work withthis person, understand what drives them? ND makes them tick. If you don'tknow, what's going on like under the hood, so to speak, and I think theother thing around that is actually you know for Nikola like she has fourchildren and has basically like you know, prioritize that she worked fourday weeks for a number of years and because she had four young smallchildren and she boike basically, like you know, Wen to her bosses. One day inwas like well like. I basically could just use one extra day. I feel like I'mnot doing very well at mom thing and th and the work thing, and I really likejust benefit from that one day and I think that's an incredible role modeland an incredible just way to be like look like. I can see a system thatwould work better for me and I just need, like your support, to make thathappen, and obviously she had incredible on people around her to makethat happen. But I think just like the the the boldness to kind of like isknow what you need and then actually just vocalize it I mean, I think,that's half the battle, so I think she's been truly inspiration, il it'sformative for me. That's awesome, Wi'm! Definitely going to look her up. Ihadn't heard of her before when you think about you know you just mentionedyou're downloading all these books off of Amazon, and so what are some of thebooks that you've been reading that have had an impact on you that we cansort of follow the bread com. Trailand get some good insights from. Oh, my God.This is so embarrassing. I'm reading everything from like the Challenger soto the challenger customer to fanatical prospecting to productable prospectingand the most hilarious thing about fanatical prospecting. Ha, you know,had tip to Jup lout I's. Basically like he'll still say things like you knowthe difference in sales between wearing like a role exind a Timemex asprospecting. You're like this is amazing. When was this book written? Itwas written in like two Thousad, an sixteen two thousand and seventeen. Soit's not like it was Wrin housand, nine hundred and Ihty two, but then he'sabsolutely right. It's like WEU know people who are like us like I, for youknow Shit, I forgot to prospect and then that's where you are, and so Ithink, there's a like a bunch of books like that and then obviously you knowthere is like you ow the kind of plastic like tetv enterprise ones, andso you kno again theyre in Ross pantheons and then there's just like aton of ones that a're rinning, like you know the talent code, Culture Code, DanCoil like what it means to be high, performing teams and so stuff like that.I think is also super helpful. Just sof like again like in the young people arepeople and so there's something behind, and that makes te tick and you're allthe better for it is everyone can have an open conversation and get to whatthat is. So fanatical prospecting is the one that you just mentioned. Yes, why are you laughing I'm going to lookit up because because somehow ti like this is gonnalike come back to me, where I'm like I made like Bu, I thought it washilarious, the difference between like driving. You know this car and that carcomes down to prospecting, but I guess you know at the core und- it's probablytrue. Well, I guess it's about goal setting and about doing stuff that youdon't feel like doing, and you know who doesn't want to rollax absolutely Iused to want to rollex, but then I got an Apple Watch and the problem is thata rollax couldn't do like my heartrate and Calori counting and all that otherexercise stuff. So I'm like, I don't really even know if I'd ever wear it.If I had one so there, you go apple solved your entire problem exactly and totally lowered myexpectations from myself. Now I don't need a tenty thouzard dollar, one Dan. I assume you guys are growing orhiring or if people out there are hearing this- and you know they want to-they want to get in touch with you. Maybe they want to have a coffee withyou or they want to apply for a job at facebook. Are you, okay, with listenersreaching out to you and what's your preferred mechanism, if so yeah, ofcourse, so probably I think the best bet would to be email me, the directlyit's Diane changs Di Ane, Cha, NDG, atfbcom and yeah, and so e mean postingis on our website. We keep pretty...

...fairly up to date, and so that would beyour best bet to see if there's an opening but yeah we're excited to grow.This team Awesome Diane. Thank so much for joining us on the PODCAST and I'llsee you I'll see you very soon thanks! So much it's been so nice to be hereright, BA, hey folks, this is Sam's corner reallyenjoyed that conversation with Diane Changwardy from facebook. Diane walkedthrough a lot of different frameworks, and a couple of them are really justabout agency in your life, and I think it's an important mindset. She talkedabout this concept of the protagonist framework. If you're late, don't say itwas because of the train. How many people have heard that in their lives,when somebody's rolling into am meeting five minutes late and they're alwaysblaming public transportation? And instead of doing that, flip that on itshead and say you know what I could have left five minutes earlier? It's abouttaking accountability and responsibility which in the moment mayfeel like you're punishing yourself, but in the long term what it does isgive you control, give you back control over your life. The other thing thatshe mentioned is and other people have the podcast have mentioned it. If yousee an opportunity, don't don't sort of self monitor yourself? If you don't askyou can't get right. So if you think that you're a good candidate for apotential Wole yne Don you raise your head, raise your hand and Leanin,especially if you're a woman, I have to say, because you know when they've donegender studies. Sometimes it is women who are little bit more reserved wh,who are calibrating their expertise relative to the role in a more measuredway, and you don't have to do that if you think that you can contribute getout of your comfort zone and go for that role. Go for that opportunity,particularly if oit lines up with your career ambitions and that's the finalpart of a Diann's message that I think's really important. She saidevery five to ten years. You know figure out your wife figure out. Whatis your true motivation and go five layers deep? She said you know get afriend that can keep saying why. Why do you want to do that? Why is thatmotivating to you, and I think that that's really really important- andI've done that recently for myself, just figuring out what gets me out ofbed every day and why do I want to exist besides just making lots and lotsand lots and lots and lots of money which, of course I want to do, but, butit's not really about that woutd. For me, it's about helping other people,and it really is about helping people that I potectu that in particular thatI respect that take agency and work their asses off. Those are the people Iwant to see if I can accelerate their careers and somelike, give them a boostand help them achieve their goals. And that's that's why I started the revenuecollector for that exact purpose and that came out of an exercise of selfreflection and actually working with a personal coach, so figure out whatmotivates you and use that to set five and ten your goals, which is also alesson that Danny Hurtsburg from slack, as also mentioned on the podcast nowbefore we go, we want to. We want to give a shout out to our sponsors beforewe part air call your advance call center software, complete businessphone and contact center, one hundred percent natively integrated into anyserum and outreach a customer engagement platform that helpsufficiently and effectively engaged prospects to drive more pipelind. Closemordeals you'll find this podcast on itunes, Google Place botify or anywherethat you enjoy your podcasts and if you enjoy this episode, please share withyour peers on linked an twitter share it on your internal company slack.That's a new request. Put that out there in sort of the general channel,but you know tell people about it, because that's what keeps us on the airand that's what helps us bring great content and great guests, and if youwant to get in touch with me, find me on twitter or find me on LikedinLinton's, probably better for professional correspondence. That'sLinkedincom the word in and then sash, Sam, f Jacobs or you can just GoogleSam Jacobs, behav ox, and I will show up so thanks for listening. We willtalk to you next time and hope you had a great New Year.

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