The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

43. How Endurance and Tenacity Can Translate Into an Amazing Sales Career w/ Carson Heady

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This week on the Sales Hacker podcast, we talk to author Carson Heady, whose “Birth of a Salesman” series translates real-life sales issues into a popular fictionalized series of sales books.  Carson’s other role is as a leading specialist for Microsoft and he talks about his career in sales, why endurance and tenacity are so important, and how to bring the right perspective to a career in field sales.

One two one thre three FO everybody at Sam Jacobs, welcome backto the sales hacker podcast. Today, we've got a great show. Would I ever Isay this a lot, but am I ever going to tell you that we have a shitty show?Probably not the odds are low, it's unlikely and we can go into reasons whythat is offline sometime, but first this is going to be a good show. We'vegot Carson Hetty. He is a three time novelist that writes about sales. Theyare novels featuring sales people as potagonist. It's called the birth of asalesman series he's going to talk to us about that. He's als going to talkabout what, if like carrying a bag at Microsoft as a cloud specialist workingon some of their products, how to effectively do social selling? Why it'simportant to cast a wide net? Why you have to understand probabilities? Whatthe Holy Trinity of sales is, so there's a lot of great nuggets in hereand we- and it was he's just a great person- it's great- to talk to him nowbefore we get into that. We want to talk about sponsored messages, messages from ouradvertisers and from the people that that pay the bills. The first is chorus:Tatai, the leading conversation intelligence platform for high grosssales teams. It records- I would say, the platform- The sophware records,transcribes, an analysis, business conversations in real time to coachraps on how to become top performers with corastate moraps me quota, newhiger FA, faster leaders become better coaches. Everyone in the organizationcollaborates over the actual voice of the customer. Everything goes much muchbetter when you use chorus so check out CORUs tot Ai Forword, Lash salehacker,to see what they're up to our second sponsor is outreached the leading salesengagement platform outreage support sales reps, as you know, by enablingthem to humanize their communications. It scale from automating the solesucking manual work that eats up selling time to providing action,oriented tips on what communications are working best outrach has your backoutreaches one of the companies that is just kicking ass right now growingincredibly quickly and they also acquired sales hacker. Last year nowwe've got a couple to two more items: one coming up in March, we're runningoutreaches running unly, two thousand and nineteen the sales engagementconference. It's going to be an amazing conference, I'm going to be there. Alot of the guests of the pot are going to be there. We've got some notablecelebrities that are going to be there it's March Tenh through twelve, so youknow, press pause on the PODCAST, go: Ask your boss, Ma'am or mister or miss,or just remove the the gender monicor prefix altogether. I don't know whereI'm going with this, the plins ask your boss. Can I go to San Diego March, tenthrough twelvte listeners, the pod get a hundred dollars off simply forentering the codsh pod, hop over to unle Stot Arich Tarayo and use thecodsh pod to save a hundred dollars efyou ticket that is sh pod and unleashtot outreached outio. I can tell you that San Diego and March is a betterplace to be than most other places in the country, beautiful, zoo, beautifulbeach, beautiful weather, great people 's, California, there's not what's notto like. Also, we started a new tradition at sales tacker last year.Our top fifty awards were continuing it this year, we're looking for amazingsales people who elevated the profession o two thousand and eighteen.So we're asking you mister or missis organ I'm getting back into the swampof gender prefixes. So we're asking you human, whatever your pronouns may be.We ask you podcast listener to nominate your colleagues or yourselves. Winnerswill be featured on this very podcast and will receive some very excitingprizes, including being featured on the podcast, including the recognition onpraise of the sales sacer community get nominating. You could nominate at sales,hackercom forard, slash, nominate sales hackercom for lash nominate, I'm goingto be nominating a few of my favorites, including Mark Jacobs, the best sppfsale, H Siro. I know who leads the team over there at CBN sites and I'llprobably nominate a few other amazing people as well. So we hope that younominate some people anyway. I've been talking too long, let's listen toCarson Hetty and here's. Today's show, thanks for being here, everybody as Sam Jacobs and you arelistening to the sales hacker podcast. You know who I am at this point on thefounder: The revenue collective in the host of the show, but today's guest isvery special guest, he's, a ward winning author and a top performingsales leader, speaker and management consultant. His name is Carson, Hettyand he's the author of the birth of a salesman's series which details theARTI sales from interviewing through preparation, pitching closing andadvancing your career he's served over the course of his career at multiplelevels of leadership and Microsoft, Atndt, vorizon and Tamobile. It'scrently working a Microsoft and he's overseeing partner relationships andleading strategic sales planning he's got a strong social media presence ofover three hundred a D. thirty thousand followers has hosted the smart Bizzshow on Ag Radio and he's been interviewed by a number of sales gures,including JEB, blunt and Jeffrey Ginamer, and me I'm a salesr an...

...anyway welcome Carson. Welcome to theshow Sam big, so much appreciate the opportunity we we're glad to have youyou're coming at a great time. We seem to be growing every week were now pastfivethousand downloads per week, which I think is pretty good milstone. So sowelcome. So you know we want to know who you are first and foremo. So youknow I just read through your bio, but tell us a little bit about yourbackground. Tell us what you're doing currently and give us sort of like somehigh level overview of both your role at Microsoft, and then we can dive intoyour upbringing, but also the books that you wrote the the birth of asalesman series, because I think that's obviously going to be the highlight ofthe show so I'll hand the mice over to you and give us a little bit ofbackground. Yeah no definitely appreciated Sam and excited to be apart of your show. Today, you n a little bit about me, I'm just a guy whoreally is passionate about selling and kind of came across it by happenstance.You know I thought I was getting myself into a customer service type rule aftercollege and turned out. It was pretty intense selling and I was one of onlytwo people out of a dozen folks in my training class that graduated andwithin a month I was tops in the office and very quickly rose through the ranksand t it had just just had a lot of fun in sales and I've worked in telecom andadvertising and now in technology- and it's been incredible just you know, andit's funny you know we talk about the the books and I had the audacity towrite a sales book when I was in my late ies and I knew nothing aboutselling relatively back then that that what I what I understand now and justhow my perspective has a vault and I think that's true of us all. I thinkit's important that we we task ourselve with a with a constantly evolvingselling perspective and leadership perspective. So right now I do work forMicrosoft. I am in a specialist type role, I'm in St Louis and I've got aterritory and some reps that I work with and several different otherspecialists that I work with across different confidencies. But the longstory short is I'm in selling and I work directly with, in some instances,clients and sometimes partners based on what their initiatives look like andwhether it's me constructing complex deal or whether it's pullingand resources in our immense company and partner ecosystem. My role has alot of different hats, and so I keeps me out of my toes to never know andit's a lot of fun now you mentione the books, and so I do have three.Currently I'm tankering with a fourth. But it's been the best experience Icould have imagined it kind of I obviously haven't sold enough to retire,because I still have e day job, but at the same time I've been able to connectwith people all over the world like yourself because of those books, D andwithout them those types of relationships never would have occurred.So it's been a very rewarding experience and I continue to learn andI'd. Consider myself a student of sales so where re you from originally CapeGerardo, which is a hundred miles south of St Louis, it's probably best knownfor two things and based on your perspective that these could be good orbad thit's, the home of rush Limba, and it's also the plan on girl, Gon Girls, a good movie rush Bas, a bad,not a positive reference from my perspective, but we don't want tointroduce politics. I guess, if I need to score some drugs, I can go visitworth Rushalan Bo just kidding. I think Cape drarters mentioned in it'ssoither. It's like a listen to William Song or something I've heard it in thesong recently that I got to go look atactually on the from what Iunderstand the last season of tose Ark as well. They were trapsing throughCape or mentioned something that had transpired in Cape, so it's definitelygrowing in the ranks and maybe someday I'll be on their wall of fame. To aresome. Have you sorry that we're we are going to talk about sales, but have youbeen to the OZARCS? I have I yeah I Hav to like, like the lake of the ozarcs orwhatever area yeah, it's a great area, Nice family spots and activities Galorefor the family or for the single person. So I mean you c this you could makethis an ad for it there and no like big crime syndicates and heroindistribution and stuff like that, like not toat, Ta know of Ut, I've never sawDaton Bateman wandering around there either. That's too bad marty bird well,fair enough! All Right! Well, let's talk about so you said it's a tell us about yourbooks. You know like, let's figure it figure it out. You know we don't havepeople that are both authors and so thought. Leaders on the one hand nd inthe and not that you're, not a fhougt leader ind, your roll at Microsoft, butit sounds like you've got a quota and you're trying to close deals, and Ithink it's always great also to have frontline practitioner, so it would begreat to dive into both aspects of what you're doing but tell us about thebooks. What prompted you write them? Three books is deeply impressive andtell us what they're about, and you know I guess it's called the birth of asalesman series but walk us through the trilogy, as it were absolutely so.

I found myself writing a column yearsago. While I was at att, it was a kind of divisional column and it was aboutsales and just different topics and sales books have been written so manytimes that you know there was a I've, always had a natural inclination towrite. I enjoy it. Hopefully some people enjoy reading what I write andyet, at the same time I was like you know, sales books have been done somany times and so well. I can't possibly contribute to that ecosystem.So I kind of create an a fictional author of a sales book, and so Itoggled back and forth between a novel about this fictional protagonist havingthese experiences in sales and then a book that he writes, and so hebasically learns the lesson through real life application and then writesabout it in this book and so it's kind of a book within a book. It was a lotof fun to do ats, Ta, Labor of love and I've. You know I could tell you it tooka long time to get it published. I sent a thousand nine hundred and sixty eightletters or emails to agents and publishers and very small amounts.Actually d would even read it, and then I had a handful that agreed to publishit, and nowadays I mean if you've ever tried to write a book or get itpublished. I mean there's a it's an interesting experience for sure andthere's some folks that sure it I mean anybody will do anything for money, sothere's some that still want you to to buy it or pay for it, and I wasfortunate I didn't have to do that. I went through a traditional publisherand ther's. A good experience got O, publish something. Ihad always wantedto do so, that's kind of what it was about in and it was called birth of asalesman. It is called that Yep, so birth of a salesman, obviously a twistoff the Arthur Millers death of a salesman from a title. scanwent- andyou know just kind of follows this guy, and he goes through typical things thatwe, I think we all encounter. I took a lot of influence from people that Ihadworked with and some of my own experience or just things that we hadseen and created a story there's a little bit of a conspiracy runningthrough the theme as well, so there's some business politics and and sellingit just things that we grapple with on the daytoday basis, and so that's kindof what prompted it an that's a little bit about what it's about and then youknow it was a good experience and there was more story to tell. I think, that'sthe greatest thing about being in in sales. Is it you'll always have morestory to tell, and I would encourage you to journal your experiences. I meanyou don't have to set out to write a book. Bhut I'll, tell you. If I can doit, anybody can and it was very rewarding. It looks great as far assomething that yyou've accomplished in your body of work, and so you knowcertainly would encourage you to at least journal your experiences, becauseit's great to look back and see where you've come from and what you'velearned. But then you know the journey kind of continued for this guy. So thefictional, Characteris, Vincent Scott and you know, he's like I said, he'sthis kind of the sales guy and he decides towhat. Is He? What does hesell? So you know everything and anything ND. He starts out very similarto to my path. He was actually in the telecom business. I had a lot ofstories from from that time, and so that seemed like a natural place forhim to start, and then he went into advertising later on. So we had somesimilar walkof life and you know, but the journey kind of continued intobooks, two and three and each time I wouldn't have done it. If I didn't feellike, I had had a unique story to tell each time out of the gates, and so eachtime I've tried to put a little bit more of a unique spin on it. But youknow Liain, I didn't want to go where others have gone and been far moresuccessful than I could ever be. Are there sales ideas that you want tocommunicate through the books that also to you know you want to communicate tothe audiences? There are you? Are there specific ideas, methodologies? You knowwhat, if we, if we wanted to grab the cliff notes oflike the three books and not focus on the plot or the narrative focus on thekey concepts that you're trying to convey? What are those key concepts? Inyour opinion? It's a great question. It's it has definitely changed and Iwould say, as when it started out a lot of it was around what I felt was kindof your the attention to the sales food chain. So you know how important it isto be linked and to have a positive interaction and relationship witheverybody that you're touching in the sales food chain. So if I'm a REB, myrelationship with my customer and my manager is very impacted. If I'm amanager, my relationship with upper management and with my sales rap isvery effective. If I'm leading managers you now so you can see where that'skind of going and just how simbiotic those relationships could and should be,how focused on others priorities. You need to be to be successful in thoserelationships. I also have a philosophy about the holy sales trinity. It's thecustomer of the company and you and those three entities have to benefitfrom every deal. That's constructed. If somebody loses in that deal, it's a baddeal, walk away from it, don't do it and I think, applying thosephilosophies is paramount, so I mean, even in my role today, I still craftdeals and situations and of course I've...

...got to make sure that you know thepartner that's involved in my organization. That's involved gets thethings that you know that are high up on the priority list, but I also haveto ensure that you know the customers getting theirs that were bringing inresources to make sure that they benefit from this deal and then at thesame time, insuring that that I win, you know it's important that you'relooking after everybody that's impacted by that deal, and it's not just for theimmediate, because of course you know any of us could go in for a cash grabclose a deal get paid, but it could charge back it could not. You know Icould leave a bad relationship there with the client and you'r from now whenyou want to go back in an upceller when that contract ends, you may lose thatbusiness if it's a bum deal so you've got to be very forward. Thinking Butdalso focused on the the priorities of the heron. Now I would also summarizeby saying I'm very people in process oriented I'm a firm believer that ifyou've got the right people- and by that I just mean people that have theright approach- the Work Ethic, the endurance you've got the right folksdoing the right process and by right process I mean the one. That's got thehighest probability at success. Each leg of the sale h of the sellingprocess you're going to equate to success, I'm a big probability, GuyStatistics and odds, and you know in each step of the process of selling,it's so important that we're focused on that step. You know when I'mprospecting, I can't focus on the end result. I can't focus on trying to selleverything, an anything that I've got in my little bag of goodies. I'm got tosell a meeting half the time or just somebody to pay attention to what Ihave to say, or even just o want to connect with me in some way and we' gotso many different tools that have become available during my sellingcareer. It's extremely exciting, but it also, I think, UPS, the Anti for us assellers to make sure that we're really putting a quality and best foot forward.The last thing I'll say on that topic would be you know if SAM, if you to askme ten years ago, you know what I thought was the most important thing insales. I would have probably said work, ethic or tenacity, or you know justsome of that will to win or a personality. But frankly, at this stageof my career I would say it's endurance, because there's so many times that weare going to go into selling situations where we're going to be told. No, wheredeals don't go our way, even at the last minute, we're internal politics,bureaucracy, process impedes us and the way that we react and respond to thatis going to determine our destiny. You know we can either pivot on it and tackle that scenario very quickly andaddress it and be effective and be responsive to our clients, or we canfold like a tent and if we, if we react poorly, if we get frustrated andcomplain, that's not only going to create a negative brand for yourself,but it's also going to ensure that you're not successful in that role andthat's where you're going to be upset you're going to be looking at otherroles, you may become a job hopper because of it you know you're going tohave issues, no matter where you are there's always going to be similartypes of issues at every organization. So it's important, I think, to reallyembrace the fact that you know you signed on to this. You know that's kindof a two way. Street company owes you training and resources and support, andyou owe them the being the person you were on interview day, and so I thinkit's very important to remind yourself of that daily, and I take that with meevery single day I remind myself of that every single day am I the guy thatI promised to be on Interviewe Day and that helps me start off and keep myhead straight every day, no matter what happens so when you're, I mean it's agreat lesson in Sery, right talking about endurance and kind ofperseverance and just maintaining a positive attitude. You'vebeen doing this a while. How do you do that? You know: Are there books thatyou've read you meditate to you exercise? Do you have a morning routine,like walk us through? If we can give some tips out there to the folks,because you know losingdale sucks, we all heare know more than we hear yesand I think, probably, if you're young in your career, you may not have thestrategies. You know you may not have the tool box fully developed so thatyou know what to do. When you lose a deal at the finish line for some reason,that's outside of your control. So what do you recommend? I think it'simportant for me right now to repent, for my past sends that Hell. In my s Ihad the problem with wearing my heart on my sleeve on a lot of these deals,and I was reactionary in some of these situations and I probably sat with thepain a little bit longer than I should have. Rather than saying you know hey Imean this. Is You know, learning from it immediately? You know I actually hadone of the best years of my career this past year and Songrandingo. Thank youand it was coming off a toughyear actually Sam and- and I learned a tonfrom that from the from the tough here, but I wotch a lot of deals last yearand but because of that I took so much...

...learning. Andto other deals that I hadthat I won very substantially, and that was all that really mattered in thebock score, and so you K ow you're talking about routines and I think it'sthat's very personal for everyone to find kind of what their routine lookslike. But I would say that it's all about for me, priorization of myschedule and making sure that I've got a carving out time to do the thingsthat have to be done that are necessary. You know being being strict to followprocess, and so for me that looks like Hey. I'm up early, I'm usually up byfour, our thirty. What Oh yeah, Oh yeah and you Nowi'll tell you why I'll tellyou why in a second and it's funny, because you know M, my answer would be different atevery stage in my career, because when I was young and single I mean I wassleeping in, I was getting to work right at right on time and you know Iwas hammering ot cold calls and then, as I got older, and I was a a salesleader looked a little bit different. But you know now: I'm married I've gottwo kids, so I'm up early because that's really the only alone time I'mgoing to get for the day and the only time that I can really totally onehundred percent free my mind. So I'm up I'm on the TREADMILL, I'm liftingweights and listening to music from rocky or whatever it is, I'm watching,Netflix or streaming a show, while I'm on the treadmill. Because that's when Iget to pick what I want to watch and I'm just and I come up with some of mybest ideas. You know I can. I can look at my work email, but I'm not beholdingto anything because nobody's calling me and I'm completely you ow left alone.So I can plan my day and I had a manager tell me a few years back goingthrough your schedule and even if you know, even if it disappoints the otherperson, if there is a something that's scheduled for that day, that isn'tparamount to your process. And you have you know. You've got other things thattake priority, offer to move that meeting and push it out to a time whereit's more conducive and really prioritized what you've got to get donethat day, and I gave that a lot of thought and I've started to subscribeto that, because you look at your schedule sometimes and there's somefluff theres stuff. That doesn't absolutely have to happen right then,and there and then there's other things on your schedule. That, frankly, shouldand could be expounded upon, or maybe a customer is only available that day andyou've been trying to get a hold of them for six months. You've got aprioritize, so I think it's important to be flexible with your scheduling,and so I typically make make it a point to do that and then also scheduling metime, whether that's meaning that you have to schedule lunch bunchesn't justfor Whem, Scordon, Gecko and also making sure you, maybe it'sscheduling, time to read a book or maybe in scheduling time tospecifically to prospect. You know carving out that hour, where you'regoing through and you're consistently prospecting every day going through thebusiness journals going through your linked in your sales navigator. Doingsome outrage, planting seeds for future success being consistent andconsistently applying process is what's going to yield results. So I think it'simportant to have a few different things based on your priorities, butit's also important to be consistent in your prospecting and in your you time,what's going to help you focus the best and that that's going to look differentfor everybody, but for me that has made me so much more effective what I'll drop this soon. But what time doyou go to bed? It depends so a lot of times kidactivities will take us up till like e thirty nine o'clock, and then you knowI try to spend a little bit of time with my wife before I got to go to bed.So it's like ten eleven o'clock, so it depends onlieah Ti, don't get a lot ofsleep. Unfortunately, I'm sorry up to me, but not today. Well, let'stalk about you know you got so much sales experience and you talked aboutyou just had your best year, so you're, a Microsoft, Yare cloud specialist.First of all tell us what does that mean? Gead, a good question. I mean we we've evolved substantialy as a companyover the last few years, and obviously a lot of our initiatives are very muchplay in the cloud space, but also on open source and how we can expandpartnerships, and so we've taken a much more partnership approach, not onlywith clients but also our traditional partner ecosystem. So my rolespecifically, I used to be an account manager. My current role, I'm I havegot a team of specialist that I work with ore's account managers that workinto my sit Louis accounts that I partner with. I also manage the partneractivity that transpires in those accounts, and so I spent a lot of mytime meeting with partners with account managers and with clients in a lot ofcases. You know a lot of the sea level. You know some of the strategic morestrategic deals are the ones that I probably get most involved in, so itcan really vary, which is exciting and never never dole, never boring, but myrole is traditionally spent in some of...

...the strategic deals that transpire inthis geography. So these are the big deals that you work on wouth that beaccurate. When you mean strategic Gou mean like seven yeagred deals,potentially, yes, absolutely and so what's fun is I spend my time in what'sconsidered the small, medium and premier corporate, so I may have astartup company that is, you know, small in number, from a seatperspective, but they consume a lot of cloud or I can have a ten fifteenthousand employee organization. I have a lot of different industries that haverepresented so it's exciting. You know I can I've learned a lot about dealnegotiation in the role. I've learned a lot about. You know just some of thedifferent initiatives and things that customers are looking at now and intothe future. You know, as they kind of roadmap out their priorities. It's it'sexciting to watch what customers are doing with the data, what they want todo with data and even just being a small part of their journey. So youmentioned prospecting a few times. What's the structure that you so youare part of a team of people that includes account managers, but I takeit from from the Wayr dscribing it you don't have bdrs or Sdr you'r sort ofdoing your own pipeline generation. Is that ACCURA? It is to a degree you know,so I definitely want to be respectful to our partner community. They dogenerate a lot of leads, but it's also important that we are going outproactively and connecting and meeting with, and so there are. There are somebdrs in certain cases and I would say a lot of times they traditionally willreside in accounts that are underpenetratedaccounts. That are you know. R ve is maybe not grasped on to our overturs for cloudfor the last few years. So there's a lot of folks that reside in that space.I spend a lot of time prospecting into you know into the sea level, but alsointo the w. Some of the I mean whith, with some of the applications that wehave today, you know into your could be sales could be marketing could be hr,so really anybody that could be. You know if it could benefit from our tools,which you know. Obviously that's pretty pretty wide array now you're you'reasking about prospecting and kind of what you know what my Mo is. Obviouslyso we purchase linked in so I mean I definitely want to point that out thatwe on linked in as I endorsed it. So this is not like a company endorsementor anything of that nature, but linkon has been phenomenal for me topersonally go out meet whomever. I need connect with find who has what title atwhat Organization Keep Tabs of? Who is changing roles? Go targeting andhelping really train my reps as well on how they can better prospect and what Imean by that is probably best illustrated by one of our larger winsthat we had within this past couple of years and Theeso. You know we have alot of reports. You know we're big company, a lot of data, a lot ofreports, and so I can see when clients or evenprospects, potentially so prospects that are not managed. Customers todayare maybe trialing some of our services, maybe using it to a small degree and soactually went out used linked on to find I saw an organization that wasusing enough to probably justify maybe a small agreement, but certainly wouldhave benefited from some of our resources so used linkd in, and I thinkwhere I use it differently than others is that if somebody wants to meet witha CEO or a cfol a lot of times, iy'll reach out to the CGEO or the CFL I'llreach out to twenty thirty people, maybe in an organization to get the oneperson or the five people that I may want hat to really ultimately connectwith. In the end, I I think all the relationships have have a lot of value,but I also cast a wide net because it comes down to probability, and I thinkthe main thing is that, if you, if you don't do it that way and if you're notcasting a wide net, you're not going to be able to have the maximum probabilityof getting the person to connect with that. You want so had a deal. A coupleyears back where I wou D manage to connect with eleven people at anorganization, and one of them actually replied to myfollowup and said you need to talk to this guy and I wasn't connected withthat. Guy called that guy said Hey. I was told by this person that you heatme O that should be talking to you. Long story short went out there. Theywere actually testing our services versus a couple of competitors. Ibrought in a bunch of resources and we were able to sign a seven figure dealand it was one of the larger deals in my channel for that time period, butthat was a huge win and it wouldn't have existed without social selling andprospecting, but also casting a very wide net to ensure the best chance ofsuccess. So a couple questions one when you're casting the wide net. What isthe are you first, just very tactically already and Sloves tactics. Are youusing enmail? Are you using a connection request or re you usingplinkton sale's navigator or something like it to find their email address andsending them an email? First question is: What's your first point of outreach yeah, I would say yes and yes and yes, I think it really depends and itcould there's no wright or wrong answer.

I think you're looking for the highestprobability of success me personally. I find that if I send linked in requestinvitations to connect to these folks- and I use what I've kind of evolved aswording over the last several years, that I give myself a higher probabilityof them accepting so a lot of times. It will be something similar to Mr Mirsscustomer good morning good afternoon. Hope this note finds you well based onyour experience and our mutual energy or our mutual synergies or our mutualexperiences or our mutual interest. I felt you'd be a great person to connectwith and to share ideas with or to learn from, would be honor to connect,and you know just send it from that advantage point now from a careerstandpoint. It could also be. It could be also very personalized. So for theseguys it was a little different, because I work for Microsoft. These guys wereutilizing our technology, so it was actually a lot more targeted and it was,I notice that you guys are actually utilizing some of our services. I wantto make sure you're aware of the resources that we can bring to bearsome of the some of the specialists, some of the potential funding dollars.You name it, so we I could be very personal or it coal be very general andbased on the situation I mean, if you're totally blindly going into anorganization. They might be very general, and I also I encourage you todo things that you can scale effectively with, because if youdefinitely don't want to be prospecting into one account for an entire day,only to come up empty, so finding a way to prospect into an account that can bepretty quick or maybe I'm blanketing and sending thirty requests. And I getten people that accept and then I reach out to those ten within a week and justtry to set a meeting. That's what I would encourage, so it can be verytargeted. I could also be very general, but I do mostfully use linkedinconnection requests, but I, like I love sales navigator because you can saveeverybody is leads. I like to save not only my target customers as leadstarget organizations is leads, but also even people internally, that aresharing things that, I think, would be pertinent that might look good on mylinked en feed, so there's a lot of strategies that I think I take thateverybody does and I may add one additional layer and that's one thingthat I would say you Kno, we were talking about philosophies earlier.I've got a really big philosophy around to change your sales resultsdramatically. You don't have to make dramatic change. Often it's a smalltweig that can make a very, very large impact to your selling and, frankly, alot of times to. If you feel that a change is warranted, you know, don'tjust go out there and try it a couple times and it fails and Youjetison thatchange. If you really thought it was worthwhile, keep doing it applyconsistently over the longer hall see what transpires? Maybe you tweakit alittle bit here and there going forward, but your sales process is never totallybacked. It's always going to evolve, based on the tools, the parameterswhat's happening in the industries itsceterup, so yeah. I think it'simportant to take those types of approach, there's still right or wronganswer, and I do not profess to be a linked in or a sales navigator expert,but I will tell you: I've used it a lot and it's helped me be quite successful.I have a couple followed questions. One is lots of people on Linkdon are outthere saying to all the people that send me a connection request and thenimmediately try to sell me something as soon as I accept. Please stop doingthat. Are you one of those people R or do you have like a different approachto it? No, not at all, I'm not even remolely one of those people, and I Icompletely agree- and I see those posts all the time. I think it's all aboutadding value. You know number one, it's all about value, and frankly, even ifyou're, just even if you're selling something look, I can see your profile.You know you send me a request and I can almost read. I can almost guesswhen I get a request. What is you know? What's the motivating factor behind itin some cases right and I'm sure that a lot of our business decision makers areprobably in the same boat? If they accept your request and then they seeyou'r a seller? They probably know that something's common and frankly, youknow in the old adage, but I used to tell all of my folks that were ininside sales, if you act like a telemarketer, its very likely you'regoing to be treated like you think, telemarketers get treated, you know,throw them for a loop. They've got a process for dealing with what you'redoing just like you've got a process. I hope for how you're going to addresstheir. You know the call that needs the concerns so differentat yourself,because that's the only way you're going to get a different result, don'tsend them a litany of things that your companydoes. They don't care. They probably already have something that does somesomething similar and they probably also have something that you know R. Maybe they just you knowthey just don't want to hear from a from a sales person or whatever it is.I mean there's a variety of reasons why they will or will not accept or will orwill not respond, and I think we've got to be cognizant of that going infrankly being in my position as a seller over the years. A lot of thepeople that I'm talking to may be in...

...sales, which is great, especially whenIw'm selling advertising more. They may be a sea level or whatever it is, andI've tried to find kind of the common ground type of thing. You know, maybeyou look for something, that's personal on their on their on their linked. Inyou know, some commonality. Did you go to the same school? Would you have asimilar interest or in the same group, and so that can often be the commonground to get the connection, but also when you're sending a followup? Youknow just even just request. Remember your requesting a meeting you're nottrying to sell them that in an enmail or an email, you're just trying to sellthe meeting, and I think it's important that we remind ourselves that and tellthem why you want the meeting or why the meeting would be a value to thecustomer or maybe you're takin in a completely different directionaltogether, and you say: Hey I'm in this industry. I do this,but what I'm very interested in is we don't work a ton in your industry orwhatever it is, and I would love to sit down, get your advice or either. Maybeeven here you know kind of how you're grappling with this issue in yourinstry or just think about a way that you can come at this at this prospectin a unique way and if you do it in e, unique way, you're likely more likelyto get a unique result. Definitely don't want to reach out too quickly.You know, especially immediately after I was liking it to dating and the theold movie swingers. You know you want to wait at least three days before youcall so don't be so opportunistic that the second thi accept your request,you're pouncing on them with every single thing. Your company does butpolitely ask for a meeting. You know maybe three to four days later, if notmore and tell them why the meeting would be of value and, and frankly,there's got to be something that your company does the differentiates, andeven if it's a call- and you know, I've heard very respectful approaches that,frankly, you may already be doing something in this regard, but I wouldlove your feedback on this component or you know this is kind of what we dodifferent than the rest, and if you don't think it's worth your time per,you know just please just let me know where if there's somebody else I needto be talking to, but I think the main thing is differentialy be respectfuland understand that it's a numbers, game, yo R. that's why I send a lot ofnotifications to a lot of different people, because the odds are small thatI'm going to talk to somebody to begin with, and I know that, if I send out ahundred, I can at least get a conversation and I'm willing to do thatbecause once you're in the conversation, that's when you're driving, pieline andbeginning a relationship. So another question for you. So you're.One of the problems in sales is that oftentimes, the people that want totalk to us want to talk to us and are willing to listen because they don'thave any influence in their organization and they just like to takemeatings and so I'm sure, because you're reaching out to so manydifferent kinds of people that you encounter those people. What are yourtactics or strategies for you know if you're, ultimately trying to get to theCEA suite you know in the ultimate buyer? Is the CIO or the chief salesofficer Chief Marketing Officer? What are your specific strategies to move touse those people to you know judo your way to the people that you actuallywant to talk to, that have power that have decision making authority orinfluence and have economic. You know authority that can make decisions thatcan help. You move the ball forward, judo your way. I love that Sam, that'sgood! You know it's funny that you say that, becausethere's actually a chapter in my second book that there's a story that there'sa character that I kind of created that that is, that person that that personthat shows up to the meetings gets the free breakfast is always at the events,but they never buy anything. And it's funny because it's, I won't give youany spoilers there, but sometimes these folks can lead to a relationship, andyou never know when or how or even if it's at the organization that they'recurrently at I mean they may make a move somewhere else, and that's whyit's important to make sure that you don't burn bridges and relationshipsand the earliest responsive in these types of situations. Now you e verylikely, if you're running into this you've identified that that a bit aperson may fit that bill that they may be. Somebody that O know is justtalking us to take a meeting period to show up on a calendar. You know showtheir boss that they did something, and I think that's why it's so importanttoo, and this ties to another really good trick of the trade is always belooking for ways to set up a referral system, and this could be a littany ofdifferent things. It could be reaching out to different partners that you know.Mayor May Not Be folks that you compete with on every single facet of yourbusiness, but that you could have kind of a symbiotic relationship with do youknow a kind of a barter of trade here where you know I don't sell this metric.I don't get compensated on this petric, but you do so ID love to refer peopleto you that do this, and perhaps you can reciprocate by you know, referringback to me, the folks that you don't sell this component to, but I do so. Ithink you know that's one area where...

...setting up a referral system isimportant if you're talking to somebody that you think just takes the meetingto take a meeting, can they help in you know getting you in front of aninfluencer in your organization, hopefully at the end of each meeting,you're asking you know. Who else should I be talking to about this? You knowobviously, there's there's other people in your organization. You know. Is ityour boss? Is it this person of that person? We sometimes we're fortunate.We have situations where we're able to go right to the top and we're able towork with that person, but I've had situations where I've had to startrelatvvely low in an organization and work my way all the way up. It helpssometimes because you're able to say you KNO, I've talked to your team. I'vetalked to your organization, and this is what they're telling me from afeedback perspective. So sometimes these meetings can be valuable, butcertainly when you identify that I've had two or three meetings with thisperson, they seem to love it. When I take them to lunch, but therethey thisorganizations ever boughty thing or this person hasn't introduced me toanybody in their organization, probably time to cut bait. If you ultimatelywant to get to the sea sweet, I think it's important that you're targetingmany different members of the CSWEETE being cognizant that you know you'vegot a that really requires more of thatpersonal touch, because the priorities are so different from one another. YouK whether you're working with somebody that is very focused on the financialsor the operations. The rly everybody's got a budget and you've got to ensurethat you know you're able to you, know to really bring value and understandtheir business model understand their their fiscal year and how it runs. So,I think part of me wants to say: Hey. You can get a lot of pertnentinformation that can help you get to the CA swueet from the guy. That justwants to take the meetings and if they don't pan out to give you referrals orintroduce you to anybody else in Theu Organization, you could at least usesome of that information. Whon you're trying to prospect to a sea level. Itactually helps you from a position of strength to say, Hey some of thefeedback, I'm getting from your team. Is this and I'd love to talk to youabout this or get your thoughts on this or how are you tackling this, or thisis something we've done in this similar area just to try to get their attentionbecause again probability that may give you a better probability of getting infront of those folks, so I'd say again kind of cast that wide net but don'tdiscriminate against Intel. We even if it means that you know you may Hav eventually cut bait on some of theserelationships that are not bearing fruit. That makes a lot of sense whenyou were actually funny enough. I mean s g the time as gone quickly, but we'realmost at the end of our time together when you're thinking about you know youmentioned perseverance. Are there one or two other key lessons that you thinkwe should take if we want to be successful, particularly in enterprisesales, because you know you're working on there are multiple stakeholdersyou're trying to work your way through the organization to get to the decisionmaker? Besides perseverance, what do you recommend that we think about whenwe're pursuing? You know a twelve eighteen month, sele cycle for sevenfigures, so glad Yeu said Sam. It's also funny, and I want to make sure Ipoint out to because I know that there's a wide reaching audience thatyou have that are in various stages of their careers, and when I was in my iesand I was in an inside sales group, I managed an inside sales group. Therewas a lot of one call closed scenarios right, and so I was very transactionaland you know you compare int contrast tat to where I am now, where there'slonger sale cycles, you're working with the sea level, it's all aboutrelationships, and that is at every stage of your career. You could beselling something you could be trying to move around in your career. You knowI found myself inexplicably and not expectedly out ofwork. Several years ago whend I had to train myself to really look in the jobmarket and it ended up being from linkedin and social networking. There'sa lot of tools that are out there. Nothing will ever replace the face toface, though, and so I think use these social tools learn how tomaximize your usage of the social tools with high probability activities, butnothing's ever going to replace the face to face the relationship and theresponsiveness I've had so many customers do business with me onlybecause they knew I responded every time out of the gate, sometimes withinrecord time, and they pay more to go through me because I was responsive andthey knew that I would take care of them. If there was an issue I wasresponsive, then to I didn't go into hiding. I was on it immediately pullingin the right people and I was always responsive even when it wasn't in mypurview or my swimlane. I was still trying to help get involved and bringfolks in, and you never know when Thatit's going to come back around it'sgoing to benefit you. Some of these folks will move to different roles orto roles at different companies and then that's another potential prospectfor you so be very mindful of the relationship and do everything you canto devote yourself to that. The last thing I would would highlight you knowwe were talking about the endurance, perseverance piece, the relationshipspiece. There's probability, and you...

...know I don't know how many folks outthere are big game players card players. It all comes down to probability ofsuccess. I mean we're in a a game that can be broken down into a science andmathematic, so sure there's a lot of psychology to it, but at the same time,every action that you take is very designed to graduate to the next stageof the selling cycle. So if I'm prospecting, if I'm doing fivedifferent activities to prospect instead of one, you better believe,I've got a better chance of getting a hold of the person that I want. Or youknow if I'm watching the business journal Trades and I see that XYZcompany named a new CEO, you better believe I'm reaching out to that personimmediately and I've had many situations where I've done that got emon Linkedin that day and I was in their office the next week and to be asopportunistic as you can but use as many nechanisms as you can to get infront of these people, but remember up front you're selling a meeting you're,not selling your product or service, just selling a meeting so figure outwhat you need to say to get that meeting and realize that it is anumbers game. You're going to need to try to sell a hundred meetings. Maybeto get one sometimes thend change your messaging evolve. Pivot, be adaptable,be coachable that those are the types of things that are really going tochange, are drive change and then application of your best possiblestrategic approach in each leg is going to Maximi the probability of success.So you know it's asking the right questions. You know it's doing. Thatneeds analysis. It's what you do with it. It's your your pitch. You know howyou're overcoming your objections. You know, you're going to change yourselling process over and over and over through the years, don't make drasticchanges per se. But if you see aquality change that you can make, maybe betterquestions that you ask, or you pick up words or best practices from somebodyelse that you manage to sell with, or you know whatever it is selffor. Thoseare the types of things that are going to help your sales process. Get betteret makes a lot of sense carson before we go any particular sales, bleadersmentors or books or podcasts. Of course, besides this podcast that you want usto know about, maybe it's been a mentor. That's been superinfluential, justpeople that you know if we're out there trying to follow the bread crumb trail.As I often say, we want to encounter those people any any any places to leadus in terms of influential content or people yeah. You know I would startwith some of the some of the fundamentals like Tinkan Grow Ridge andDale Carnegie Winning frends and influence influencing people. Some ofthe you know just some of the the basics, and that regard I love Jeblouds. Just great guy phenomenal conversations. I love US philosophies,get him e great guy, just people that are just no nonsense and you know we'reall. In the same. You now we're all in the same battle here and it's, I think,it's half fun and just really enjoy yourself. Bun gravitate toward thosethings that are. You know that are grounded in realism, because there's somany different selling philosophies out there philosophies don't necessarilyget it done. Reading a motivational quote doesn't necessarily get it done.The practical application of these things, it'ss really being trulycustomer obsessed, not paying lip service. Those are the types of thingsthat I gravitate toward. There are some great podcast out there. I obviouslylove yours and there's several that I've been fortunate to be on that wethat have spoken to me like there was one with Steve Benson that I was onthat too long ago. We love his philosophies. There was another onethat I was fortunate to be on the Mary, Lu, Tyler and so tthere's a handfulthat I really gravitate toward. There's really good article that I saw recently,and I think you guys posted it, and it was one of the d d like the top salespodcast and frankly, that list is gold. I spent some time going through ahandful of those and just listening, and what I love nowadays is that youcan just stream that stuff in your car, while you're driving, no better way tokind of start your day or while you're going to a meeting fit some of thatstuff in and Simon Cenic love his philosophies. Two that's Great Simon Synic is fantasticCarson. If people want to reach out if they want to. First of all, they wantto buy hour books, I assume they're on Amazon, Yep, Amazon and borns and nobleand also available and kindle, and then the first one is on audio as well coolbirth of a salesman and then, if they want to reach out to you, connect withyou, learn more about sort of how you approach selling. Is that? Okay, andwhat's your preferred mechanism? Yes, please, I love connecting with othersellers, and I will be I will respond. I will would love to have a dialogue.Would love to chat even I'm on Linkedin a lot at twitter. My handle is CV, isin Vencent, Hetty, zero, zero, seven and you can get me either place.Awesome, Carson thanks. So much for being on the salesacker, podcast andand we'll talk to you soon see in my pleasure thanks so much...

...everybody, it's Sam's Corner Sam Jacobs,Carson Hetty, author of birth, of a salesman ties three books there, andthen he works at Microsoft and he is doing the hard yards of prospecting.Opening up new opportunities with partners closing deals. I think that ingeneral you know what I like. Most about Carson is just his overallattitude. He mentioned endurance. He mentioned just the ability to take aloss and keep moving. Obviously you know sales. We do difficult work, myfriends- and I am here sympathizing and empathizing, but also sympathizing withall of us and with you, because you know, I often say if you hear no ninetimes out of ten Youre fired and seven times out of ten and your you know atop sales person in that way, it's not dissimilar from baseball and soCarson's very focusd on probabilities, but he's also focused on just processand one of the parts about process. There's this big meme going around ontwitter right now. I don't know if you've seen it just a lot of peopletalking about how being busy is not a particularly interesting shying, Ithink Bill Gates. There was a clip with Bill Gates, Charle, Rosanwarren buffetand it's amazing go look it up on the Internet. Warren Buffet has hiscalendar Book and there's nothing in it, because Warren Buffet doesn't scheduleany meetings, and so you know all these people everybody out there in theworlds talking about how busy they are honestly, who gives a shit like nobodycares everybody's busy and it's boring to talk about how busy you are. That'sthing number one you have to took up talk about it a little bit, but it'sboring stopping boring, but that's not the important part the portant part is.I saw and twitter somebody Wright in reference to the idea ancapsulated inthis idea that Warren Broffett doesn't even have any meetings because he savesso much time for himself for thinking. So where am I going with this scheduletime for yourself working like I can tell you, I run my own business. I'veworked in a lot of companies just grinding from the minute you wake up tothe minute you go to sleep. You may think you can do that for a career. Youcannot do that for a career. You will burn out and it's exhausting and youneed to schedule time for yourself. You need to take vacations now. I don'twant you taking any vacations if you have a quarterly quota and you haven'tmade a sale and there's thirteen weeks in a quarter. Do not please don't takea two week vacation the last two weeks of the quarter. That's ridiculous!Don't do that, but you do need to take vacation, but even in the course of aday, you need to schedule time for yourself there's nothing wrong withthat. You don't need to feel guilty. You don't need to be there till nine PM.That's sales is about interacting with other people. If nobody else is intereis there to interact with your prospects. It doesn't make any sense soput time for yourself but time for yourself to go to the gym, put time foryourself to go out and get drunk with your friends or not get drunk. If youdon't like alcohol put time for yourself to read a book, that's notabout business but read a work of fiction. Er, O work of that's justinteresting to you. Just make sure that you put enough time for yourself andthe phrase that is in my mind, is being busy as cheap and prioritization isexpensive and it is expensive because you're going to have to say no ofthings but learning the act of saying no to things that are not a priority isa key skillset of being an executive, and it will also dramatically improvethe quality of your life. Listen I'm a person that lectures people on whattime to wake up, but it's more important that when you come to work,you are feeling good. A good mood is more important than staying at theoffice till ten PM, so that has been Sam's corner. It's a little life lessonand a life lecture for you. I hope you enjoyed it now before we go. Of coursewe want to thank our sponsors for this episode, its chorus, the leadingconversation, intelligence platform for high gross sales teams and outreach.The leading sales engagement platform. Also, don't forget: We've got the saleshacker top. Fifty awards nominate yourself or your colleagues go tosaleshackercom forward ash nominate. We want to hear from you the winners willbe featured on the pot itself and I hope to see you in San Diego at unleashit's going to be the best conference you've ever been to March ten throughtwelve. If it's snowy and Shitty on the east coast come to San Diego we'regoing to be in bathing, suits and drinking. My ties, etce listeners, thepod get a hundred dollars off the code, is Sh pod, go to unley stat out,reached Atao and use the code SGE pod to save a hundred dollars off yourticket. God bless us all I'll talk to you next time.

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