The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

49. KPIs to Build World-Class Customer Success Organization w/ Roger Scott

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This week on the Sales Hacker podcast, we interview Roger Scott, Chief Customer Officer at New Relic. Roger is a world class technology executive who has spent the last 25 years in customer facing roles, first at Oracle and now at New Relic. Roger discusses the key philosophies driving effective customer engagement and how to build a global organization while preserving culture and alignment.  

One, two, one, three, three, everybody, it's Sam Jacobs. Welcome to the sales hacker podcast.We've got a fantastic show for you. Today we have Roger Scott, theEVP and chief customer officer at New Relic. New Relic is a closeto five hundred million dollar publicly traded cloud computing SASS company started by loose earning, a very well known founder in Silicon Valley. We're super excited to haveRoger. It's going to be a great show and so thank you so muchfor joining. Roger Talks about what is the role of customer success? Howdo you build the customer voice into every interaction that you have with the customer? How do you scale and grow a big company? And what are theelements that are so important to picking your next company? And the cliff notes, the spark notes, are really about culture, about the market size andopportunity and about the quality of the technology. And he walks us through the journeyfrom when he came out of the University of Cape Town in South Africathrough London. He's worked all over the world and and now he spent thelast few years in Silicon Valley in San Francisco. So it's a great conversation. Or super excited to have Roger on the show. But before we getto that interview, of course, you know that we must, we mustthank our sponsors, and so the first of our sponsors is a company thatwe all know and love. It's CORUSTT AI. They are the leading conversationintelligence platform for high growth sales teams. Chorus for chords, transcribes analyzes businessconversations in real time to coach t reps on how to become top performers.With chorus, more reps meet quota, new hires, ramp faster, leadersbecome better coaches and everyone in the organization can collaborate over the actual voice ofthe customer. Just translating that last little bit. The point is that callcoaching technology is not just about coaching salespeople. It is about bringing actual phone conversationsand making them manipulatable and digestible and easy to analyze and then bringing thatback to the product team so the producting can listen to what customers are actuallysaying and they don't have to rely on a filter, that filter being sometimesother executives are other people in the organization. So it allows you to directly hearfrom the customer in a way that's easy to manipulate, easy to cutand paste, easy to find the good parts in the good bits, etc. So that's Corus. Go to COURUS DOT AI forks last sales haccer,to see what they're up to. Our second sponsors outreach. That's outreach ontioh, the for the leading sales engagement platform. Outreach support sales reps byenabling them to humanize communications at scale, from automating the soul sucking manual workthat eat that except selling time, to providing action Oriento tips on what communicationsare working best. Outreach has your back. If you're listening to this, lastweek we hosted unleash. It was an incredible conference, so we're superexcited and we hope that you're using outreach to deliver personalize. Make sure thesemessages are personalized. Do a little bit of research. You can do thiswith tools like outreach. Don't just don't just spam, because it doesn't workanymore. So go over to the where's the website for? I guess,every anywhere that you want to go outreached ioh. I don't even know.There's not like a forward sales secer thing, probably because ourach own sales soccer.But regardless, go to outreach DOT AO to get some sales engagement software. They do amazing work their sponsors of the revenue collective. So we're veryappreciative of that and without further ado, I would like to now turn themicrophone over to Roger Scott from new relic. Thanks for listening, everybody. Hey, everybody, it's Sam Jacobs and welcome back to the sales hacker podcast. We're incredibly cited today to have Roger Scott on the show and Roger Scottis the chief customer officer for new relic, which is one of the more prominentpublicly traded SASS and cloud computing companies out there and a lot of folksknow about them well. We'll hear about new relic in the course of ourinterview with Roger. Before we dive into the interval, let me just giveyou a little bit of background. So Roger Scott is the chief come customerofficer at new relic. He's responsible for leading all aspects of the cusp companiescustomer facing technical resources across sales, engineering, technical account management, professional services andsupport engineering. He has more than twenty five years international enterprise software andservices sales experience. He's worked all over the world in Africa, Europe,Asia North America. He's had executive leadership positions and essentially every function, marketing, sales, sales, engineering, business development, professional services. And likemany folks out in the valley, he honed his his skill and his craftat the wonderful or corporation, where he held a variety of positions, includinghead of global online sales out of North American business development for technology software sales, that's a mouthful, and head of technology sales engineering for Asia Pacific.He's originally from South Africa. As you'll hear. He holds an MBA fromthe University of bath in the UK and multiple degrees from the University of CapeTown. So, Roger, welcome to the show. Thank you, Sam. Great to be here. We're excited to have you and and we're excited, I think, today to dive into sort of the concept of the chiefcustomer officer, which, you know, maybe a new title or an oldtitle, but we'll figure it out. But the first thing we want tounderstand is a little bit more about,...

...as we call it, your baseballcard so first you know, your title is evp, chief customer officer.You work at new relic. Tell us a little bit about new Rolic forthose out there that don't know about the company. So new relics being aroundin the market place for a little bit over ten years now, was fundedby a gentleman by the name of Loucni. Those of you done, I actuallynew Rolick as an Anagram of loose name. So if you put intoan anagram generated loose and he turns up new relic, which is a interestinglittle fun fact. But we're about just over ten years old. As Isaid, this is lose second chapter in his career in terms of application performancemonitoring, which is really a category that he created with the when he foundedthe company while he back in the yet two thousand. That company was subsequentlysold on to computer associates. But in new relic we really focused on thereal time performance insights into softway and if you think how much software is drivingbusiness transformation today and creating new channels of engagement with the customer, understanding thecustomer experience through the core software stack out into the back end infrastructure is criticalto having an intimate understanding of your customers and ensuring that they get the bestpossible experience possible. So we monitor all of that environment and it's particularly relevantto our customers when they moving to the cloud, adopting cloud technologies, orthey're moving to more agile development approaches, develops approaches or just generally wanting tounderstand the digital customer experience. So it's that sort of end to end technologymonitoring to be able to provide better insights into customer experience and ultimately that impacton your business. Wow. So give us, I think you know thefolks out there can look up the case in the queues, but give usthe publicly available financial data and how big the company is. You mentioned it'sten years old, and also how long you've been there. Sure. Sowe're in our fourth quarter right now. We finished our fiscal year and nextmonth, and so our most recent quarterly results were the third quarter ending Decemberof two thousand and eighteen and we generated a hundred twenty four million in revenue, which was the thirty five percent year on year growth. Outlook for thefull fiscal years somewhere in the region of four hundred and seventy five million,approaching five hundred million. Wow, we're one sixteen hundred person organization. I'vebeen with the company for just under four years, to be four years endof May, and I'm responsible for about a quarter of the organization which,has you indicated, included pre sales and post sales resources. Wow, sowhat year did the company IPL? There was a yet before I joins.A two thousand and fourteen just before you joined. Okay, yeah, sowalk us through. First of all, will dive into your background and Ithink it's going to be really interesting to for people to hear how you navigatedyour career. But one thing just off the top of of my head inthe conversation, which is chief customer officer. Tell us about what that job meansspecifically, because it's sort of feels like a bit of a new role, but maybe it's not. So walk us through your specific mandate and howyour responsibilities are structured and organized. Sure, and you're absolutely right, it's atitle that I've certainly found in the last nine to twelve months, asI've tried to build a stronger network of other chief customer officers and Industry,I've reached out to a number of the wellknown SAS companies and we try toexchange ideas and talk about our strategies and approaches to customer success and you realizethat anything and everything falls into the backet of chief customer officer at the moment. So there is are you absolutely wrote. It's a new it's a new role, role title and actually has a very widely varying set of responsibilities dependingon who you talk to. So she has my view and the way thatwe think about it at new relic. So if you think about the resourcesthat fall undermine remit remit, it's everybody from the pre cells, cells,engineering cells, consulting solution architects through into the post sales functions which you couldtraditionally call customer success, which would include professional services, renewals, customer successmanagement, support and education. And so what we've done is we've put allthose resources together in one organization under the chief customer of some myself. Thataffords us a huge amount of opportunity to service the customer better because if youthink about in an assass world where you in the cells environment, you makinga promise to the customer in terms of the value you're going to deliver throughyour product and then in the post cells world. You really want to deliveron that promise and the degree to which you deliver on that promise is reallythen the foundation for your potential to expand either up cell or cross cell intoother products or solutions. And so I believe the lifeblood of a assass organizationis really that dollar base net expansion rate, thinking about how you existing install baseis purchasing and using more of your service and that's an indication of whetherthey feel they've got full value from the the whatever it is that you positionedwith them in the cells environment, so that that opportunity to create that sortof virtuous cycle of pre and post sales...

...engagement and actually, almost intentionally,start to blur the lines there. We think services are customers the best possibleway. It really focuses on them in terms of the degree to which youwant to deliver a success and value back out to them. There's a bitof a debate, may be at smaller companies, but I'm wondering as wellat new relic. You mentioned net dollar expansion. Is Your are you primarilyas a member of the executive team and understand, of course, your goldaround financial performance of the company but are you specifically oriented as a Cape?Is One of your Kpis that financial metric, that revenue metric of net dollar expansion, or as an MPs or customer usage or sort of customer satisfaction scorethat is equal or even more important from your perspective? It's a well,it's a combination of fact is actually, at my level, the ones thatI really focus on in terms of the organization that I have responsibility for.The dollar based net expansion rate, as you mentioned. If you think aboutit, we're five hundred approaching a five hundred million dollar run rate company andwe have aspirations to get to a billion dollars and beyond, and a significantamount of that growth is going to be predicated on the expansion of existing installbase and so ensuring that we monitoring that sort of stat which is really thethe output or the ultimate measure of success. I think of whether you've delivered value. Are Your customers that you had a year ago buying more and,if so, how much more of what you have to offer? So that'scertainly a primary one. What I also found is it's incredibly difficult to geta consistency of measure across the industry on that. This subtle ways in whichdifferent organizations measure that differently, but I think it's important that you choose away of measuring that and then use that as a baseline on which you canthen measure your your organizational success. There are a few other things we're alsoconstantly looking at. You touched on it with usage of the platform. Sowe we've put a lot of emphasis recently and put a lot of development intotruly understanding our customer health, and so we've got some great early warning systemtechnologies available now where we're able to look at combination of things like your licenseconsumption more importantly, your usage base, and in that area will look atthings like monthly active users and weekly recurring users, weekly recurring users being reallyimportant to us because we want the product to be sticky in something that peopleare regularly coming back into and using on a on a regular basis and theirday to day execution of their duties. So monthly active users, weekly recurringuses are significantly important to us, as are just a total number of usersthat you have using the platform. And then, lastly, we also lookat the degree to which our users are using the platform and by that Imean how much time are they're spending on site? which functions are they're using? Are they're using the surface level functionality or using the deep rich functionality?That we think is where the real value sits in the platform, and soif we monitoring all that really actively and looking that proactively, then we canintervene in a very targeted fashion to be able to go and help customers getbetter value out of the platform. Her responsibilities? Do they extend or arethey parallel to the core new revenue acquisition function? Am I right that theorg charge is that you report through the Chief Revenue Officer? Just started.I'm trying to understand the balance between customer success and money and revenue. Soit's an interesting thing and I think as a SASS organization you get to apoint, and I would argue that we were at we've passed that inflection pointand we will and truly in that next phase of our growth, early phasesof our SAS coom is a you know, there's clearly a huge focus on netnew business and being able to land new logos, and so the theland motion is critical and growing the foundation of Your Business and you know we'vedone that in remarkably successfully. We have in excess at seventeen thousand customers,you know, and we've shifted quite dramatically over the last five or six yearsin terms of a focus more into the enterprise and being able to generate morethan fifty percent of our revenue out at the enterprise. I feel like theybecomes a sort of natural point in time and your growth and evolution of hisassass company where you you've got to get a healthy balance between focusing on netnew business and being able to look at more of your expand motion, ensuringfirst of all that your customers are healthy and getting the renewals and place etc. And then looking at the expansion opportunity within that install base account. Andso, you know, I think it's something as you are style report upinto Erika Schultz, who's our CR row, and you. Our primary goal isto continue growing the company and so we just look at the balance ofwhen those net new bookings come in, whether they coming from new logos versuscoming out of the existing in store base and been driven of expansion from healthyaccounts. So I'd say it's shifts over time where's initially it's around net newbusiness. I think over time you start to look at how do you servicethings install base more effectively as well.

As there are a handoff motion.That happened? Does the does the account executive or the enterprise account executive orthe team that lands the account? Did they stay with the account through thelifetime of the account, or do they hand it off to your team explicitlyand then from there it's your team's responsibility to to retain and expand? It'sa combination of both, I would argue, and it depends on the segment ofyour install base that you talking about. So I think at the higher endthe market, the multimillion dollar are in store based accounts. Those tendto be a a's who focus on a very small number of large strategic accountsfor us, and so if you think about that, there it's in theirinterest to ensure that they have continued engagement with the account, they have aconfidence that the account is healthy, customers getting full value, because a lotof their business and their success is going to be driven off the back ofexpansion. So in the bigger, higher bigger accounts in the higher end ofthe market, we tend to have much more of a continuous cycle of engagementof the AE and the pre cells. People then connect with some of thecustomer success resources. But there's much more of a blended team, I wouldargue, at the lower end of the market, but it's a little bitmore transactional than we have very specific processes that we use to get the customeron boarded. We have some very targeted engagements with some of our solution architectsthat we have in post sales where they go through a very standard on boardingprocess taking them through all the different capabilities in the platform and hold them throughthe initial ninety days of usage of the product. So it really largely dependson the type of account, the size of accounts, how strategic it isand to what degree we have a standarp playbook that we could share the bestpractices and provide good content to them in a little bit more of a automatedand in product experience. So it's a combination of both, I would argue. Yeah, that makes sense. Thank you for that, for that overview. Our listeners are interested probably, or one of the things they are alwaysinterested in, as the career journey, the professional development path of somebody likeyourself. That's risen to such impressive heights at a public company. So walkus through. You know a little bit about your origin. Obviously, aswe mentioned in the Intro, you originally hail from South Africa. How didyou find your way over the course of the last twenty some od years,two Silicon Valley to be the chief customer officer in New Rollic? How didit start and what were the key in flection points? I mean, I'llstart up a saying that I think of incredibly lucky and fortunate in many waysand I'm not sure when I set out on this journey that I necessarily plannedit this way, and I think part of that is just what I've alwaysheld as a strongly held belief, which is take advantage of every opportunity thatpresents itself to you. So in brace change, in brace opportunity and andgood things generally come from that. And I suddenly can look back on mycareer and say that that was a case in my experience. So I yeah, I was born in South Africa, grew up in Cape Town, Istill believes one of the most beautiful places in the world. Highly recommend peoplego and visit that. It's just an incredible experience, such an eclectic mixof cultures and everything. But I grew up there, was schooled there,went university, Their University of Cape Town, as I think you mentioned, andI started my career in Cape Town and interestingly enough, the some ofthe early work that I did in my career was in expert service, expertsystems and neural networks and artificial intelligence, and that was back in the lates early s, a really really early days of Ai and it's interesting heartstaken twenty, five, thirty years to get to a point where that's reallybecoming standard technology and in a lot of software that that that were creating today. And so just take it tells you how long is sometimes takes it developedsome of those technologies. But in the early S I thought I'd take sometime out and go travel the world for a year. That was in ninehundred and ninety three and here we are twenty six years later and I thinkI'm still on that journey. So I actually had intentions to I've had anopen ended return ticket to go to London. I flew to London and had everyintention of just chilling out and going to go and to Europe and seewhere things took me. But I did happen to stumble upon an opportunity asa developer and as a contractor in the first week that I arrived there,and just from that it's sort of snowballed. I met a number of people atthe company I was working at. We engaged in their large Oracle clientserver transformation for the Legal Aid Board of England and Wales at the time,which was the largest client server project in Europe at the time, to redevelopall their operation on management systems and through that we decided to create a consultancythrough all the different independent consultants, Oracle Consultants, that we're working on theproject. We started a consultancy that started working with a bunch of other clients. Through that we became a partner to our cale in Europe. Through thatI made connections in our call which led to me ultimately working for them inthe consulting organization as a solution architect in...

...the deadawarehousing practice, and then fromthere I you know one thing about our cars. Spent a total seventeen yearswith our core six years in Europe, four years in Asia Pacific and sevenyears in North America. It was. You know, I think Oracle isjust an amazing experience in journey. The opportunity that they gave me, thechance to be able to work across multiple different functions, be ad marketing,sales, business development, consulting, et such. It was remarkable. Somultiple journeys that ultimately led to me then moving back to headquarters here in NorthAmerica, which is then through that met a number of people who I thengot introductions into new relic and four years ago joined the company. So sorrythe long winded description of that route. We we like longwinded because we wantto hear the details. When you it's always interesting. You know, there'sthere's a lot of youngsters out there. They're listening and an upandcoming folks anda lot of their experiences almost been exclusively in this day and age at smallcompanies, companies much smaller than Oracle. And I guess one of the questionsthat people might have is seventeen years at oracles is a long as a longtime. What do you attribute because I would imagine there's shifting business strategies,shifting political alliances within the organization. What do you attribute your success to atthat company and how are you able to navigate such a large corporate behemoth sosuccessfully across multiple jobs, multiple regions, etc. When you reflect back onwhat it was that enabled and empowered your success, what do you think thekey qualities are? That's a great question. I'm not sure of entirely figured thatout of but one thing I always encourage people to do, as Isaid Earli is take advantage of all on every opportunity that presents itself to andthe I've felt it our call, even though those seventeen years, as youcan imagine, a big grew enormously and when I started out it was,you know, very early days of applications, software business and sales business, andthen obviously, through the growth of the company, with the expansion ownsof the acquisitions that we did, a change quite dramatically and I think whenI joined it was roughly fifteen eighteenzero employees and when I left was about ahundred and Twentyzero. Well, but the one thing that largely remained consistent throughoutall that time is it it didn't ever to me certainly feel like it operatedlike a very large behemoth, like you say, and I think for theright type of individual, the door was always open and so I think certainlyin the environments I worked in, the teams I worked in, in thebusiness units I was engaged with the it was encouraged people who took initiative,showed initiative, push change, had ideas. It was celebrated and welcomed. Sothat certainly led to a high degree of my opportunity is just by virtueof connecting with people, putting forward ideas, being very proactive and your engagement acrossthe organization. That's something I've certainly encouraged here at neurolic as well.As I I'm always encouraging people to think about potentially working in a different partof the world for new relic or moving into a different function of the companyto be able to get a broader experience. I think that's such a healthy thingin an organization and for the individual. It's an amazing career build as wellon experience build and that sets you up for life. I think yeah, it's it's also you need the culture at the organization probably that encourages oraccepts failure, because sometimes you're moving out into a new roll or new functionand that function turns out to be it doesn't turn out to hold the intendedpromise and you need an organization that can accept you back into the warm embraceand not penalize you for taking that chance. Absolutely yeah, I think you know, and whether we've heard other leaders in industry said or you read itin books, you the opportunity to fail or the comfort of failing, issomething that I think actually strengthens the organization and I think I know. BeingSouth African, I'm a great Nelson Mandela Fan and I always spars what heonce said, which was I never lose, I only win or learn, andso this concept of whatever the experiences it's great. Actually you can learnfrom it, you can be better after it, you can improve the organizationcapability, you can prove your individual performance and so have you're absolutely right.Having that environment where it's not seen as a loss but it's seen as anopportunity and opportunity to learn, strengthens individuals and strengthens the organization. You know, you mentioned in some of our discussions offline that one of the lessons you'velearned is the importance of moving from transactional to relationship based customer engagements. Tossabout what you mean by that. Why is it so important and what isthe impact that it has on a business as it's growing? Yeah, II think it's imperative in the SASS world that you move to a relationship basedcustom engagement model, and I'll explain to...

...you the way I've articulated it toour team and the organization and even to our customers. Growing up in SouthAfrica there was this term of Buntu. I don't know, I'm sure you'refamiliar with a Buntu from Ubuntu, Linux canonic or Mark Shuttleworth actually, incidentally, was alumni at the same school. I went to an also university ofCape Town. But Bunch is actually an Ingidi Buntu term and it pretty muchmeans humanity, or it's literal translation is I am because you are, andso my happiness, my success is dependent on your happiness and success to somedegree as well, because if you not happy in new struggling then over timethat's unsustainable. And so it's it's a fair it's a pretty much we're allin this together philosophy and it's about the interest of humanity, etc. SoI've sought to take that philosophy and and that culture, which was very heavilysomething that was exposed to me in southern Africa. I've sought to apply thatto the business world where, if you think about customer success and relationship basedcustomer engagements, I think about it as we are because they are, andif your customers are hugely successful, we going to be successful. And somoving to this type of motion of sales where you're entirely focused on the customer, the success of the customer, and through that particularly incess it leads togreat things, which ties back to some of the measures we talked about earlierwith the dollar based net expansion rate, etc. And so I'm a strongbeliever in that that haw idea. We are because they are. Yeah,are there specific tactics, rituals, meeting cadences? Are there things that youdo with in the new relic organization to maintain that focus on the customer thatmaybe in previous experiences or when you're doing advisory work, you see other companiesnot doing those things and those those behaviors reflective of that transaction or relationship you'retrying to move away from? Yeah, I yeah, one of the thingswe've worked hard at Neu Rolic and I think we do an outstanding job withus now is to be comfortable in the discomfort of customer feedback sometimes and tocelebrate it and to ensure that you have channels for the voice of the customerto be heard internally. There is a tendency sometimes, I think, whenyou're a smaller, rapidly growing organization that's going to revolutionize the world and changethe world, is to be more insolent and more internally looking and believe youyou have a perfect understanding of the future world and how it should be,and that tends to then create situations where you somewhat reluctant to talk to customers. So I think the thing that we've done a great job of is increasinglyis to provide a channel, on a forum for that voice the cust tobe heard loud and clear in the organization, and so we have some very clearprocesses where we are able to capture all the feedback from customers, whetherit's functional gaps in the product set or something they would love to see anddon't see in other products but would like to have it they think it's niceto have. We capture that really rigorously and religiously go about that day andday. Art Meet on a weekly basis to review all that, and that'sa combination of the customer success organization, the sales and pre cells organization andthen product management and engineering and to be able to assess what's change, whatare we seeing, what trends are they? Are there things we should start thinkingabout and get ahead of, because we started here at regularly from customersall their things that are nagging at customers that we really need to go andclose a gap on something that we may not necessarily have the best solution inthe market. So I think you've got to turn that philosophy I talked aboutearlier. But you know we are because they are. You've actually got toput some pretty stringent processes behind that, otherwise it's going to we're fairly thinwith a customer we also have a very active customer advisory board. We veryfortunate to have an amazing array of wellknown brand companies that participate in that andthe amazing thing to me is just the enthusiasm that those customers on the customadvisory board have for our success. So embracing the rich and frank and openfeedback is is really powerful for the company. And so, you know, comingback full circle here. That ability be comfortable in the discomfort of thefeedback that you're getting from your customers is, I think, an asset and youcan turn it to your advantage really quickly. One of the most commonquestions I get from from earlier stage companies is how to Tad a separate thesignal from the noise, how to contextualize what is feedback that needs to findits way into the product road map because it's reached some critical inflection point ofconsensus or it reflects something, and what is feedback that is an outlier,that yes, we want to listen to the voice of the customer, butwe can't. We can't be a bill, be a customed to have shock.We can't build every single thing that that the customer wants. Do youhave structure, strategies, framework for figuring out where the line is crossed atwhich point it needs to find its way...

...into the actual product? You needto Seeo like loose Sernie, and I'm being star the cute bus saying that, but actually there's a part degree of reality and that as well, andthat you've got to be really careful. As you say, you don't wantto overrotate to a point where everything becomes a customer specific piece of code thatyou're putting into your platform. Your platform whenever scaled and never perform. It'sgoing to slow down your broader road MAPP, as you indicated, and so you'vegot to be really careful. You got to get that balance and that'swhy we do quite a lot of cross functional dialog internally on some of thoserequirements and the feedback. I think you've got to create a discipline around it'sbe able to, as you say, understand what's noise and what's truly somethingyou want to react to, and and that's largely a discipline of the productproduct management group, I believe. And the more outbound a product management teamis as well, they can moderate a lot of the feedback that's coming inas well. But yeah, you do not want to over rotate to respondingto every single customer need. You've got to be focused on your mission andyour vision essentially, and then around that, reflect the needs of the market andlisten to your customer a little bit better. When you switching tax alittle bit, you know, as you've risen up through your career and nowyou're responsible. I think you mentioned a third of all new relcome plays areunder under your umbrella and as your responsibilities have shifted, what do you think? I guess when you and again I'm just because there's there's a lot ofyoungsters out there, there's a lot of upandcoming folks that are interested in thedifference between being an individual contributor or frontline manager and then how those responsibilities inthe requirements of the roll shift and evolve as you move upwards in the corporatehierarchy. What do you think for you, are the key drivers, the keystrengths that you're leveraging now at the executive level that you've had to developover the course of the last few years to be effective in your current role, and and which of those were are not present or are less less presentearlier in your career just maybe they weren't required? What are the key skillsthat you think are necessary to be effective as the chief customer officer? That'sa great question. Actually, I think I see it quite a lot inour gas organization because we we've grown so tremendously over the course of the lastthree or four years. So I think when I started up we had aboutforty five pre cells people in the organization and today we have an excess offour hundred across pre cells and post cells. So we've grown pretty dramatically in thein the time that I've been here and we're incredibly fortunate with the talentthat we've got in the organization. I think that the one of my rolesis to be able to make sure that our organization is universally committed to thevision and the mission that we have and and part of our mission is inthe customer success organization. are creating these lifelong customer advocates for new relic andwe do that applying that UPUNTU philosophy that I mentioned earlier, and so myresponsibility Nis very heavily focused on ensuring that understanding of our mission and our ourrole and responsibility in ensuring the customer success and how we do that most effectively. So, and I'll come back to possibly a little bit more of whatmy responsibilities are, but I want to go back to something you asked earlier. You know, I think we have, as I say, this great talentin the organization incredibly ambitious as well and want to move up through theranks really quickly, and so I've seen a lot of evidence of people whoare exceptional and the individual contributor roles and then within a year want to bea manager and within a year after they want to be a director, andso there's and I'm a huge fan of people who are a vicious and givingthem early opportunity and allowing people to make mistakes and fail on through that buildingbetter skills for their career. I think this we've got to put our armsaround people who want to move into management. It's probably the hardest job in theorganization, in my view. First Line Management is incredibly hard. It'sthere's a huge amount of pressure, there's a lot of responsibility. Frequently,if you moving from an individual contributor a role to a management role requires awhole new series of skills and all too often people are put into that rolebecause they aren't they've done an outstanding job as an individual contributor, but wehaven't put the necessary investment and training around them to make them a great firstline manager. And yet it's the most critical role, I think, inthe organization. That's where the real action happens, that's where the real engagementhappens with the customer and that's where you can make or break the organization,and so it's something that we, you know, are people, are functionand some of our talent acquisition team have put a lot of emphasis and focuson. Is Making sure that we get the right blend of bringing in newtalent into the organization who can bring in skill sets that others can learn fromand can bootstrap the evolution of the organization, as well as putting some great programsaround the front line management role for those who want to move into itfrom individual contributor position. So it's the great thing. I think at newrelicas we have a normous opportunity for that. So I think, you know,encouraging those thinking of joining new relic...

...or and heard about new rel canare excited about what we're doing. There's a lot of opportunity to come overand do that, but it's it's a something that we think about every dayabout how we can make it better and more impactful to the organization. Oneof the things that you've said in the past if it's not illegal, it'sjust policy. Walk us through that idea, because I thought that was really interesting, particularly given the size of your organization, in the fact that you'rea public company. Yeah, I think if it's it's interesting. I thinkthat so often, and this is where I think organizations, in my experience, can get really bogged down and slowed down in the unnecessary policy, asI put it. And and so I think all too often we get weddedto these policies being around contractual stuff or pricing or how we deliver value orhow we on board a customer or flexibility in our license utilization. And sothe way I was just thinking about is that we often characterize those policies isalmost something that's like a law and if you break it it's illegal. Andthe reality is, I mean you don't want to do anything that's you're apublicly traded company. Don't want to do anything that's is illegal. That's clear. But all too often we start out from the position that the policy can'tbe changed rather than how we're going to make the customer experience better. AndI've it's been interesting in the market. I've seen a little bit of theemergence of a chief experience officer. Some people sort of toying with idea ofcreating creating a sea level executive who's solely focused on what is the customer experienceend to end in all the interaction and interactions and touch points in the organization. I think that's really important is to always challenge yourself to think of howcan you be better for in the eyes of the customer? How can youensure that you're delivering more value and having greater impacts for them and for themdelivering services are to their customers? I mean, we give you not maybenot an example of something that we changed as a policy, but if youthink of some of the customers we work with and some of the incredible thingsthat they're doing are in the market and the the events that we have tosupport. You know what we call it their moment of truth, whether it'sblack Friday or cyber Monday, or it's the Super Bowl and new streaming theevent, they have these incredible moments where they've got to deliver their service intheir products that are to the market and they've got to delight their customers andwe're at the center of the ability to monitor out and ensure that that's happeningand where it's not, being able to cause correct really quickly in and that'sall in the interest of ensuring that they delight their customers, and so Ijust I just think you should challenge yourself to think that some of these policiesmay have been relevant a year ago, two years ago, five years ago. Are they still serving the customer or they're serving US internally and whilst wehave to protect ourselves legally, etc. Etc. I think we need muchmore of a stronger orientation towards what's in the interest of the customer, whathelps them delight their customers. And so when I say if it's not legal, it's just a policy, so break the fucking policy, that's that's justwhere I'm coming from. Is just it challenge your thinking. It's sometime it'srooted in a past time that you can now change. I completely agree,I think, to the point of some of the comments you've made. Italways comes down to the founder and the CEO, because if they have createda culture where that's where that's okay and where there's space to do that,then then it will be possible. And if they've created a different kind ofculture, one that isn't customer focused, then the alternative might very well happen. Absolutely when you look at it at other companies outside of new relic andyou know again, so common themes from our audience are how do you makethe jump from individual contributor to manager? There are specific questions that they haveabout functions and then one of the most commonly asked questions, because of therate of failure of so many startups and high growth companies, as how doyou choose the right company? So, when you think about company evaluation,what are the elements for you perhaps that went into taking this role at newrelic or just as your I'm sure you know, your an advisor and aninvestor and an observer of many other companies out there in the valley. Whatare the common criteria for you when you're thinking about what makes a company successful? There so many different facts. As I concertin took about my own personaljourney and joining new relic and some of the decision processes I went through.You know, I think we are in the midst of an enormous transformation inour industry with the advent of cloud and the cloud platform providers, and that'sjust driving huge amount of change in our industry. So it was very importantto me to be part of that process. So looking for a pure multitenance assoftware provider and neurelic fell squarely within that range, within that criterium.I was certainly looking for an organization that...

...was ambitious around moving to the internationalmarkets, where I could use my international experience to bring to bear the company. I was passionate about a belief that it needed to be sort of aproduct let organization, a technology let organization. I think that's one of the thingsthat Oracle certainly did really well in the majority of the time that Iwas with them. We had a technology it's that the help helm the companywas passionate about technology, so that took the box. There Los an incredibleCEO and a visionary in terms of technology and that was a huge plus fact, and you see that whether you look at glass door you see some ofthe interviews he does in public and things like that. He's a huge partof the element of what makes us successful. So I think leadership is critical,and then understanding the vision and the ambition of the company and where they'regoing and how bold they are in terms of what they want to achieve,I think is also critical. But you know, all of all of thatsaid, I could very quickly tick to all the boxes for new relic onthose factors. And then I spent a lot of time up in Portland withour engineering team, Jim Coach. He leads our engineering team and is justbuilt at an amazing product and an amazing team. And then spend some timewith the executives back here in San Francisco, and the whilst I had this longlist in my mind, was sort of very literal evaluation of what wasgoing to be important at the end of the day was the culture that justhits you so quickly in your interaction with people at new relic, and Ithink that's something that loose set out from the very start is to create avery specific culture at new relic and it is around being authentic, being bold, being passionate about what we believe in and being very collaborative in the waythat we operate as well. So it's interesting, hiw I had these evaluationcriteria and then it very quickly flipped to very heavily around the culture, andI think that the cultures what's going to stand you in good stead as yougo three. Three is great growth phases and we certainly in one of those, going from five hundred billion to a billion. Those that we're in rarefiedair. In terms of the number software companies that have done that in ourindustry, only twenty one have gone past the billion dollar marks. So Ithink cultures really at the heart of what you you think about when you evaluatinga great company, and the way I often see that manifesting itself is whenI've bought in new leaders into my organization, it's almost universal that within two tothree weeks of being here they will turn around to me, as Ifeel like I've been here six to twelve months already, and that's speaks volumesto me about the way that we've been able to assimilate people into the organizationand the degree to which we build on the culture as being a fundamental partof our success. Yeah, I agree completely. We're almost at the endof our time together, Roger. So, first of all, thank you somuch for being on the show. We come to a part of theshow where we love Roger Scott, but we also want to know who hasinfluenced Roger Scott, who are the people that you look up to? Welike to pay it forward so that we can celebrate some of the folks thathave contributed both to your success and that you would respect and admire. Sowhen you think about other commercial leaders, whether they're d piece of customer success, few piece of sales, chief marketing officers, but other folks that youlook up to an admire in the industry. Who are some of those people?We'll see. I'M A it's going to be my wife. What's hername? A little bit honest. Her name is Michelle Ka, Michelle Ker. She's the Cmad Leva and I'm not sure if you're familiar with liver,but I think they ats right. Applican tracking system. Yeah, talent acquisition. Yeah, sorry, hiring process. It's a bigger category than I gaveit credit for. I Apologize. That's all right. I'll say that.She's got to work on her marketing. It's getting tread everybody, but youknow, she's been with him for fatty short amount of time. But it'sclear to me that they thinking about talent deck with position in all the rightways. You know, talent acquisition for us at New Rolic is at theheart of US success. We've got to bring in talent into our organization.I think your ambition needs to extend beyond just your product in your service andit needs to extend to your talent acquisition, and that's one of the things I'vedeliberately done in my organization is to make sure that we hire people whoare going to grow with the company and I actually going to be instrumental inthe growth of company rather than hiring for the what we need today. Butthat's getting a little bit sidetrack. So I love what they're doing. Ithink actually her CEO and founder, Sarah and am, is inspirational in termsof some of the things that she's thinking of doing in the way she's drivingthat company. I guess the other thing that's been an overriding influence in mytime of working in North America has been I've worked with three exceptional women leadersin the industry. I moved from Singapore to North America and work with JudySim who's the CMO at Oracle and started at Oracle as an intern and hasended up being the CMO and is just a remarkable success story. If anybodywho wants to see what you can achieve in life suspend time. The firstthree years that I was living here in...

...the bay area I worked for herand was just a great learning experience and she give me incredible exposure in thecompany. On joining new Rolic I work for Hilary Coppler Mac Adams, whohad done incredible things, and on the inside cells side of the business atOracle before going over to run commercial sales. It sells force, and then ultimatelythe president in Crow neurolic and then today working for Erica Schultz as croit's just been an absolute pleasure of the partnership that we formed and the collaborationthat we have and the passion we've been able to instill in one another forthe future and of our company. In the success for our companies has beenamazing and I've just learned so much from all of them. So I thinkI've been really fortunate to work with some incredible leaders over the years. Andthen I would argue, I know it's a little bit unfair to bring itback to new Rolic a game, but I think lose just unbelievably inspirational personto to work for and to be part of an organization that he leads,and I think that's been such a central part of our success as well.I love it. Rider, thanks so much for being on the show.We've got a note to the to the to the point of talent acquisition.There's a number of folks out there probably looking for a job or that areinterested in applying or reaching out to you after hearing this. So essentially thequestion is, are you open to being contacted or if people are interested inlearning more about neurolic are about approaching you? What's your preferred method of communication?How would you like them to reach out? Great Question. I hadthought about that. They sprung it on you. Yeah, I am morethan happy for people who reach out reach out on Linkedin. That's probably agood starting point. Otherwise, you know, if you there are specific roles thatyou're interested in, let me know. concertainly facilitate interest auctions to the rodpots of the organization. If it's my organization, we're always on theoutlook for great talent. So would welcome the personal outreach through Linkedin. Yeah, that's probably the best place to start. Perfect. Roger, thanks so muchfor being on the show and and we really appreciate it and we willtalk to you soon. All right. Thanks so much, SAM, everybodyat Sam's corner. What a fantastic interview with Roger Scott, the chief customerofficer of new relic and a long time executive focused on all of the differentfacets that are that are critical to delivering great customer success and customer experience.Think it's interesting Roger talked about the differences between, you know, lower dealsize, more high velocity, more transactional sales, where there's a clear dividebetween the new logo acquisition and then the account management of Customer Success Team andthen the enterprise accounts where really it's becoming far more common for the salesperson andreally the entire pre sales team to work that account from the presale all theway through the lifetime and life cycle of that customer. Roger talked about howhis main goal is net revenue expansion. You know that the expansion component,which is which is somewhat I don't know if it's controversial, but many timesthe chief customer officer is not going to have a revenue metric at all.Actually, sometimes they might have gross unit retention, you know, they mighthave just how many logos did you retain over the course of that period?And let's not include expansion and let's not include up cells and they'll only befocused on customer delight and customer usage. But in Roger's case, you know, and probably it has something to do with the fact that he reports thechief revenue officer, but he is very, very focused on revenue expansion as theclearest output indicator of whether or not the customers happy. Now remember hemade the point revenue happens at the end. Churn expansion that happens at the endof the of the interaction with a customer. There are many, manythings that happen. In fact, most of the things happened before the endby definition, and so it's really important that you build in dashboards and instrumentyou were, your product usage and deliver yourself early warning signs when the customeris not moving on the on the path that you've determined as the successful pathfor them and for what an optimal customer journey looks like. And you canuse platforms like a gainsight or at a tango that can help you uncover thosesignals. But just remember that you know that the churn, the expansion,that happens at the end of things, and so you really need to befocused on what is an effect of onboarding process and then what are the signalsthat your customers are giving you that tell them through usage of the platform andrecurring usage of the platform, that they are either on the right path orhave fallen off the right path. Something to think about. Lastly, thatBuntu phrase that Roger Mention and I am because you are building customer orientation intothe culture of the company. That that is really how you're going to besuccessful enterprise, be to be SASS. You know a lot of founders anda lot of companies. They don't they read the Steve Jobs biography. SteveJobs, apple is a B Toc Company. It's not a be to be companyfor the most part. So your...

...iphone. That takes a visionary potentiallyto understand what are the requirements of that product. But in be tob enterpriseass again the idea that the founder is going to sort of have this beautifulvisionary insight and hat and can safely ignore the feedback of the customers. Frankly, that's just bullshit and it's stupid and what you need to do as yougrow and be Tob Sass as, you need to build the customer voice intothe evolution of the product. That's how you do it. Steve Jobs isnot a metaphor for be to be. It's a metaphor. For be tosee. He is a metaphor. So just make sure next time somebody talksabout Steve Jobs and how we know better than the customer, remember them andbe tob don't know better than the customer. You need to listen to the customer. What you need to be good at is differentiating signal from noise,which piece of feedback is necessary and put that into the product roadmap and whichpiece of feedback can be ignored, because you don't want to be a customdevelopment shop for every single customer. So this has been Sam's corner. Wereally want to thank Roger Scott for being on the show to check out shownotes, the upcoming guests and play more episodes. The truth of the matteris that you cannot see upcoming guests, but you can do with the otherthings, check out show notes and play more episodes, and that's at saleshackercom and head to the PODCAST TAB. You'll find us anywhere podcasts are shared. If you heard something that you like, if you found some value in thispodcast, please share it. Please share with your peers on Linkedin,twitter or elsewhere if you've got a great idea or your feedback for me.Find me on twitter at Sam f Jacobs. Are On linkedin at Linkedincom the wordin, and then and then, Sam f Jacobs, we would absolutelylove to hear from you. Finally, big shot out to our sponsors forthis episode, Chorus, the leading conversation intelligence platform for highgress sales teams,and outreach, the leading sales engagement platform. Will see you next time.

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