The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

49. KPIs to Build World-Class Customer Success Organization w/ Roger Scott

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This week on the Sales Hacker podcast, we interview Roger Scott, Chief Customer Officer at New Relic. Roger is a world class technology executive who has spent the last 25 years in customer facing roles, first at Oracle and now at New Relic. Roger discusses the key philosophies driving effective customer engagement and how to build a global organization while preserving culture and alignment.  

One, two, one, three, three, everybody, it's Sam Jacobs. Welcome to the sales hacker podcast. We've got a fantastic show for you. Today we have Roger Scott, the EVP and chief customer officer at New Relic. New Relic is a close to five hundred million dollar publicly traded cloud computing SASS company started by loose earning, a very well known founder in Silicon Valley. We're super excited to have Roger. It's going to be a great show and so thank you so much for joining. Roger Talks about what is the role of customer success? How do you build the customer voice into every interaction that you have with the customer? How do you scale and grow a big company? And what are the elements that are so important to picking your next company? And the cliff notes, the spark notes, are really about culture, about the market size and opportunity and about the quality of the technology. And he walks us through the journey from when he came out of the University of Cape Town in South Africa through London. He's worked all over the world and and now he spent the last few years in Silicon Valley in San Francisco. So it's a great conversation. Or super excited to have Roger on the show. But before we get to that interview, of course, you know that we must, we must thank our sponsors, and so the first of our sponsors is a company that we all know and love. It's CORUSTT AI. They are the leading conversation intelligence platform for high growth sales teams. Chorus for chords, transcribes analyzes business conversations in real time to coach t reps on how to become top performers. With chorus, more reps meet quota, new hires, ramp faster, leaders become better coaches and everyone in the organization can collaborate over the actual voice of the customer. Just translating that last little bit. The point is that call coaching technology is not just about coaching salespeople. It is about bringing actual phone conversations and making them manipulatable and digestible and easy to analyze and then bringing that back to the product team so the producting can listen to what customers are actually saying and they don't have to rely on a filter, that filter being sometimes other executives are other people in the organization. So it allows you to directly hear from the customer in a way that's easy to manipulate, easy to cut and paste, easy to find the good parts in the good bits, etc. So that's Corus. Go to COURUS DOT AI forks last sales haccer, to see what they're up to. Our second sponsors outreach. That's outreach ont ioh, the for the leading sales engagement platform. Outreach support sales reps by enabling them to humanize communications at scale, from automating the soul sucking manual work that eat that except selling time, to providing action Oriento tips on what communications are working best. Outreach has your back. If you're listening to this, last week we hosted unleash. It was an incredible conference, so we're super excited and we hope that you're using outreach to deliver personalize. Make sure these messages are personalized. Do a little bit of research. You can do this with tools like outreach. Don't just don't just spam, because it doesn't work anymore. So go over to the where's the website for? I guess, every anywhere that you want to go outreached ioh. I don't even know. There's not like a forward sales secer thing, probably because ourach own sales soccer. But regardless, go to outreach DOT AO to get some sales engagement software. They do amazing work their sponsors of the revenue collective. So we're very appreciative of that and without further ado, I would like to now turn the microphone over to Roger Scott from new relic. Thanks for listening, everybody. Hey, everybody, it's Sam Jacobs and welcome back to the sales hacker podcast. We're incredibly cited today to have Roger Scott on the show and Roger Scott is the chief customer officer for new relic, which is one of the more prominent publicly traded SASS and cloud computing companies out there and a lot of folks know about them well. We'll hear about new relic in the course of our interview with Roger. Before we dive into the interval, let me just give you a little bit of background. So Roger Scott is the chief come customer officer at new relic. He's responsible for leading all aspects of the cusp companies customer facing technical resources across sales, engineering, technical account management, professional services and support engineering. He has more than twenty five years international enterprise software and services sales experience. He's worked all over the world in Africa, Europe, Asia North America. He's had executive leadership positions and essentially every function, marketing, sales, sales, engineering, business development, professional services. And like many folks out in the valley, he honed his his skill and his craft at the wonderful or corporation, where he held a variety of positions, including head of global online sales out of North American business development for technology software sales, that's a mouthful, and head of technology sales engineering for Asia Pacific. He's originally from South Africa. As you'll hear. He holds an MBA from the University of bath in the UK and multiple degrees from the University of Cape Town. So, Roger, welcome to the show. Thank you, Sam. Great to be here. We're excited to have you and and we're excited, I think, today to dive into sort of the concept of the chief customer officer, which, you know, maybe a new title or an old title, but we'll figure it out. But the first thing we want to understand is a little bit more about,...

...as we call it, your baseball card so first you know, your title is evp, chief customer officer. You work at new relic. Tell us a little bit about new Rolic for those out there that don't know about the company. So new relics being around in the market place for a little bit over ten years now, was funded by a gentleman by the name of Loucni. Those of you done, I actually new Rolick as an Anagram of loose name. So if you put into an anagram generated loose and he turns up new relic, which is a interesting little fun fact. But we're about just over ten years old. As I said, this is lose second chapter in his career in terms of application performance monitoring, which is really a category that he created with the when he founded the company while he back in the yet two thousand. That company was subsequently sold on to computer associates. But in new relic we really focused on the real time performance insights into softway and if you think how much software is driving business transformation today and creating new channels of engagement with the customer, understanding the customer experience through the core software stack out into the back end infrastructure is critical to having an intimate understanding of your customers and ensuring that they get the best possible experience possible. So we monitor all of that environment and it's particularly relevant to our customers when they moving to the cloud, adopting cloud technologies, or they're moving to more agile development approaches, develops approaches or just generally wanting to understand the digital customer experience. So it's that sort of end to end technology monitoring to be able to provide better insights into customer experience and ultimately that impact on your business. Wow. So give us, I think you know the folks out there can look up the case in the queues, but give us the publicly available financial data and how big the company is. You mentioned it's ten years old, and also how long you've been there. Sure. So we're in our fourth quarter right now. We finished our fiscal year and next month, and so our most recent quarterly results were the third quarter ending December of two thousand and eighteen and we generated a hundred twenty four million in revenue, which was the thirty five percent year on year growth. Outlook for the full fiscal years somewhere in the region of four hundred and seventy five million, approaching five hundred million. Wow, we're one sixteen hundred person organization. I've been with the company for just under four years, to be four years end of May, and I'm responsible for about a quarter of the organization which, has you indicated, included pre sales and post sales resources. Wow, so what year did the company IPL? There was a yet before I joins. A two thousand and fourteen just before you joined. Okay, yeah, so walk us through. First of all, will dive into your background and I think it's going to be really interesting to for people to hear how you navigated your career. But one thing just off the top of of my head in the conversation, which is chief customer officer. Tell us about what that job means specifically, because it's sort of feels like a bit of a new role, but maybe it's not. So walk us through your specific mandate and how your responsibilities are structured and organized. Sure, and you're absolutely right, it's a title that I've certainly found in the last nine to twelve months, as I've tried to build a stronger network of other chief customer officers and Industry, I've reached out to a number of the wellknown SAS companies and we try to exchange ideas and talk about our strategies and approaches to customer success and you realize that anything and everything falls into the backet of chief customer officer at the moment. So there is are you absolutely wrote. It's a new it's a new role, role title and actually has a very widely varying set of responsibilities depending on who you talk to. So she has my view and the way that we think about it at new relic. So if you think about the resources that fall undermine remit remit, it's everybody from the pre cells, cells, engineering cells, consulting solution architects through into the post sales functions which you could traditionally call customer success, which would include professional services, renewals, customer success management, support and education. And so what we've done is we've put all those resources together in one organization under the chief customer of some myself. That affords us a huge amount of opportunity to service the customer better because if you think about in an assass world where you in the cells environment, you making a promise to the customer in terms of the value you're going to deliver through your product and then in the post cells world. You really want to deliver on that promise and the degree to which you deliver on that promise is really then the foundation for your potential to expand either up cell or cross cell into other products or solutions. And so I believe the lifeblood of a assass organization is really that dollar base net expansion rate, thinking about how you existing install base is purchasing and using more of your service and that's an indication of whether they feel they've got full value from the the whatever it is that you positioned with them in the cells environment, so that that opportunity to create that sort of virtuous cycle of pre and post sales...

...engagement and actually, almost intentionally, start to blur the lines there. We think services are customers the best possible way. It really focuses on them in terms of the degree to which you want to deliver a success and value back out to them. There's a bit of a debate, may be at smaller companies, but I'm wondering as well at new relic. You mentioned net dollar expansion. Is Your are you primarily as a member of the executive team and understand, of course, your gold around financial performance of the company but are you specifically oriented as a Cape? Is One of your Kpis that financial metric, that revenue metric of net dollar expansion, or as an MPs or customer usage or sort of customer satisfaction score that is equal or even more important from your perspective? It's a well, it's a combination of fact is actually, at my level, the ones that I really focus on in terms of the organization that I have responsibility for. The dollar based net expansion rate, as you mentioned. If you think about it, we're five hundred approaching a five hundred million dollar run rate company and we have aspirations to get to a billion dollars and beyond, and a significant amount of that growth is going to be predicated on the expansion of existing install base and so ensuring that we monitoring that sort of stat which is really the the output or the ultimate measure of success. I think of whether you've delivered value. Are Your customers that you had a year ago buying more and, if so, how much more of what you have to offer? So that's certainly a primary one. What I also found is it's incredibly difficult to get a consistency of measure across the industry on that. This subtle ways in which different organizations measure that differently, but I think it's important that you choose a way of measuring that and then use that as a baseline on which you can then measure your your organizational success. There are a few other things we're also constantly looking at. You touched on it with usage of the platform. So we we've put a lot of emphasis recently and put a lot of development into truly understanding our customer health, and so we've got some great early warning system technologies available now where we're able to look at combination of things like your license consumption more importantly, your usage base, and in that area will look at things like monthly active users and weekly recurring users, weekly recurring users being really important to us because we want the product to be sticky in something that people are regularly coming back into and using on a on a regular basis and their day to day execution of their duties. So monthly active users, weekly recurring uses are significantly important to us, as are just a total number of users that you have using the platform. And then, lastly, we also look at the degree to which our users are using the platform and by that I mean how much time are they're spending on site? which functions are they're using? Are they're using the surface level functionality or using the deep rich functionality? That we think is where the real value sits in the platform, and so if we monitoring all that really actively and looking that proactively, then we can intervene in a very targeted fashion to be able to go and help customers get better value out of the platform. Her responsibilities? Do they extend or are they parallel to the core new revenue acquisition function? Am I right that the org charge is that you report through the Chief Revenue Officer? Just started. I'm trying to understand the balance between customer success and money and revenue. So it's an interesting thing and I think as a SASS organization you get to a point, and I would argue that we were at we've passed that inflection point and we will and truly in that next phase of our growth, early phases of our SAS coom is a you know, there's clearly a huge focus on net new business and being able to land new logos, and so the the land motion is critical and growing the foundation of Your Business and you know we've done that in remarkably successfully. We have in excess at seventeen thousand customers, you know, and we've shifted quite dramatically over the last five or six years in terms of a focus more into the enterprise and being able to generate more than fifty percent of our revenue out at the enterprise. I feel like they becomes a sort of natural point in time and your growth and evolution of his assass company where you you've got to get a healthy balance between focusing on net new business and being able to look at more of your expand motion, ensuring first of all that your customers are healthy and getting the renewals and place etc. And then looking at the expansion opportunity within that install base account. And so, you know, I think it's something as you are style report up into Erika Schultz, who's our CR row, and you. Our primary goal is to continue growing the company and so we just look at the balance of when those net new bookings come in, whether they coming from new logos versus coming out of the existing in store base and been driven of expansion from healthy accounts. So I'd say it's shifts over time where's initially it's around net new business. I think over time you start to look at how do you service things install base more effectively as well.

As there are a handoff motion. That happened? Does the does the account executive or the enterprise account executive or the team that lands the account? Did they stay with the account through the lifetime of the account, or do they hand it off to your team explicitly and then from there it's your team's responsibility to to retain and expand? It's a combination of both, I would argue, and it depends on the segment of your install base that you talking about. So I think at the higher end the market, the multimillion dollar are in store based accounts. Those tend to be a a's who focus on a very small number of large strategic accounts for us, and so if you think about that, there it's in their interest to ensure that they have continued engagement with the account, they have a confidence that the account is healthy, customers getting full value, because a lot of their business and their success is going to be driven off the back of expansion. So in the bigger, higher bigger accounts in the higher end of the market, we tend to have much more of a continuous cycle of engagement of the AE and the pre cells. People then connect with some of the customer success resources. But there's much more of a blended team, I would argue, at the lower end of the market, but it's a little bit more transactional than we have very specific processes that we use to get the customer on boarded. We have some very targeted engagements with some of our solution architects that we have in post sales where they go through a very standard on boarding process taking them through all the different capabilities in the platform and hold them through the initial ninety days of usage of the product. So it really largely depends on the type of account, the size of accounts, how strategic it is and to what degree we have a standarp playbook that we could share the best practices and provide good content to them in a little bit more of a automated and in product experience. So it's a combination of both, I would argue. Yeah, that makes sense. Thank you for that, for that overview. Our listeners are interested probably, or one of the things they are always interested in, as the career journey, the professional development path of somebody like yourself. That's risen to such impressive heights at a public company. So walk us through. You know a little bit about your origin. Obviously, as we mentioned in the Intro, you originally hail from South Africa. How did you find your way over the course of the last twenty some od years, two Silicon Valley to be the chief customer officer in New Rollic? How did it start and what were the key in flection points? I mean, I'll start up a saying that I think of incredibly lucky and fortunate in many ways and I'm not sure when I set out on this journey that I necessarily planned it this way, and I think part of that is just what I've always held as a strongly held belief, which is take advantage of every opportunity that presents itself to you. So in brace change, in brace opportunity and and good things generally come from that. And I suddenly can look back on my career and say that that was a case in my experience. So I yeah, I was born in South Africa, grew up in Cape Town, I still believes one of the most beautiful places in the world. Highly recommend people go and visit that. It's just an incredible experience, such an eclectic mix of cultures and everything. But I grew up there, was schooled there, went university, Their University of Cape Town, as I think you mentioned, and I started my career in Cape Town and interestingly enough, the some of the early work that I did in my career was in expert service, expert systems and neural networks and artificial intelligence, and that was back in the late s early s, a really really early days of Ai and it's interesting hearts taken twenty, five, thirty years to get to a point where that's really becoming standard technology and in a lot of software that that that were creating today. And so just take it tells you how long is sometimes takes it developed some of those technologies. But in the early S I thought I'd take some time out and go travel the world for a year. That was in nine hundred and ninety three and here we are twenty six years later and I think I'm still on that journey. So I actually had intentions to I've had an open ended return ticket to go to London. I flew to London and had every intention of just chilling out and going to go and to Europe and see where things took me. But I did happen to stumble upon an opportunity as a developer and as a contractor in the first week that I arrived there, and just from that it's sort of snowballed. I met a number of people at the company I was working at. We engaged in their large Oracle client server transformation for the Legal Aid Board of England and Wales at the time, which was the largest client server project in Europe at the time, to redevelop all their operation on management systems and through that we decided to create a consultancy through all the different independent consultants, Oracle Consultants, that we're working on the project. We started a consultancy that started working with a bunch of other clients. Through that we became a partner to our cale in Europe. Through that I made connections in our call which led to me ultimately working for them in the consulting organization as a solution architect in...

...the deadawarehousing practice, and then from there I you know one thing about our cars. Spent a total seventeen years with our core six years in Europe, four years in Asia Pacific and seven years in North America. It was. You know, I think Oracle is just an amazing experience in journey. The opportunity that they gave me, the chance to be able to work across multiple different functions, be ad marketing, sales, business development, consulting, et such. It was remarkable. So multiple journeys that ultimately led to me then moving back to headquarters here in North America, which is then through that met a number of people who I then got introductions into new relic and four years ago joined the company. So sorry the long winded description of that route. We we like longwinded because we want to hear the details. When you it's always interesting. You know, there's there's a lot of youngsters out there. They're listening and an upandcoming folks and a lot of their experiences almost been exclusively in this day and age at small companies, companies much smaller than Oracle. And I guess one of the questions that people might have is seventeen years at oracles is a long as a long time. What do you attribute because I would imagine there's shifting business strategies, shifting political alliances within the organization. What do you attribute your success to at that company and how are you able to navigate such a large corporate behemoth so successfully across multiple jobs, multiple regions, etc. When you reflect back on what it was that enabled and empowered your success, what do you think the key qualities are? That's a great question. I'm not sure of entirely figured that out of but one thing I always encourage people to do, as I said Earli is take advantage of all on every opportunity that presents itself to and the I've felt it our call, even though those seventeen years, as you can imagine, a big grew enormously and when I started out it was, you know, very early days of applications, software business and sales business, and then obviously, through the growth of the company, with the expansion owns of the acquisitions that we did, a change quite dramatically and I think when I joined it was roughly fifteen eighteenzero employees and when I left was about a hundred and Twentyzero. Well, but the one thing that largely remained consistent throughout all that time is it it didn't ever to me certainly feel like it operated like a very large behemoth, like you say, and I think for the right type of individual, the door was always open and so I think certainly in the environments I worked in, the teams I worked in, in the business units I was engaged with the it was encouraged people who took initiative, showed initiative, push change, had ideas. It was celebrated and welcomed. So that certainly led to a high degree of my opportunity is just by virtue of connecting with people, putting forward ideas, being very proactive and your engagement across the organization. That's something I've certainly encouraged here at neurolic as well. As I I'm always encouraging people to think about potentially working in a different part of the world for new relic or moving into a different function of the company to be able to get a broader experience. I think that's such a healthy thing in an organization and for the individual. It's an amazing career build as well on experience build and that sets you up for life. I think yeah, it's it's also you need the culture at the organization probably that encourages or accepts failure, because sometimes you're moving out into a new roll or new function and that function turns out to be it doesn't turn out to hold the intended promise and you need an organization that can accept you back into the warm embrace and not penalize you for taking that chance. Absolutely yeah, I think you know, and whether we've heard other leaders in industry said or you read it in books, you the opportunity to fail or the comfort of failing, is something that I think actually strengthens the organization and I think I know. Being South African, I'm a great Nelson Mandela Fan and I always spars what he once said, which was I never lose, I only win or learn, and so this concept of whatever the experiences it's great. Actually you can learn from it, you can be better after it, you can improve the organization capability, you can prove your individual performance and so have you're absolutely right. Having that environment where it's not seen as a loss but it's seen as an opportunity and opportunity to learn, strengthens individuals and strengthens the organization. You know, you mentioned in some of our discussions offline that one of the lessons you've learned is the importance of moving from transactional to relationship based customer engagements. Toss about what you mean by that. Why is it so important and what is the impact that it has on a business as it's growing? Yeah, I I think it's imperative in the SASS world that you move to a relationship based custom engagement model, and I'll explain to...

...you the way I've articulated it to our team and the organization and even to our customers. Growing up in South Africa there was this term of Buntu. I don't know, I'm sure you're familiar with a Buntu from Ubuntu, Linux canonic or Mark Shuttleworth actually, incidentally, was alumni at the same school. I went to an also university of Cape Town. But Bunch is actually an Ingidi Buntu term and it pretty much means humanity, or it's literal translation is I am because you are, and so my happiness, my success is dependent on your happiness and success to some degree as well, because if you not happy in new struggling then over time that's unsustainable. And so it's it's a fair it's a pretty much we're all in this together philosophy and it's about the interest of humanity, etc. So I've sought to take that philosophy and and that culture, which was very heavily something that was exposed to me in southern Africa. I've sought to apply that to the business world where, if you think about customer success and relationship based customer engagements, I think about it as we are because they are, and if your customers are hugely successful, we going to be successful. And so moving to this type of motion of sales where you're entirely focused on the customer, the success of the customer, and through that particularly incess it leads to great things, which ties back to some of the measures we talked about earlier with the dollar based net expansion rate, etc. And so I'm a strong believer in that that haw idea. We are because they are. Yeah, are there specific tactics, rituals, meeting cadences? Are there things that you do with in the new relic organization to maintain that focus on the customer that maybe in previous experiences or when you're doing advisory work, you see other companies not doing those things and those those behaviors reflective of that transaction or relationship you're trying to move away from? Yeah, I yeah, one of the things we've worked hard at Neu Rolic and I think we do an outstanding job with us now is to be comfortable in the discomfort of customer feedback sometimes and to celebrate it and to ensure that you have channels for the voice of the customer to be heard internally. There is a tendency sometimes, I think, when you're a smaller, rapidly growing organization that's going to revolutionize the world and change the world, is to be more insolent and more internally looking and believe you you have a perfect understanding of the future world and how it should be, and that tends to then create situations where you somewhat reluctant to talk to customers. So I think the thing that we've done a great job of is increasingly is to provide a channel, on a forum for that voice the cust to be heard loud and clear in the organization, and so we have some very clear processes where we are able to capture all the feedback from customers, whether it's functional gaps in the product set or something they would love to see and don't see in other products but would like to have it they think it's nice to have. We capture that really rigorously and religiously go about that day and day. Art Meet on a weekly basis to review all that, and that's a combination of the customer success organization, the sales and pre cells organization and then product management and engineering and to be able to assess what's change, what are we seeing, what trends are they? Are there things we should start thinking about and get ahead of, because we started here at regularly from customers all their things that are nagging at customers that we really need to go and close a gap on something that we may not necessarily have the best solution in the market. So I think you've got to turn that philosophy I talked about earlier. But you know we are because they are. You've actually got to put some pretty stringent processes behind that, otherwise it's going to we're fairly thin with a customer we also have a very active customer advisory board. We very fortunate to have an amazing array of wellknown brand companies that participate in that and the amazing thing to me is just the enthusiasm that those customers on the custom advisory board have for our success. So embracing the rich and frank and open feedback is is really powerful for the company. And so, you know, coming back full circle here. That ability be comfortable in the discomfort of the feedback that you're getting from your customers is, I think, an asset and you can turn it to your advantage really quickly. One of the most common questions I get from from earlier stage companies is how to Tad a separate the signal from the noise, how to contextualize what is feedback that needs to find its way into the product road map because it's reached some critical inflection point of consensus or it reflects something, and what is feedback that is an outlier, that yes, we want to listen to the voice of the customer, but we can't. We can't be a bill, be a customed to have shock. We can't build every single thing that that the customer wants. Do you have structure, strategies, framework for figuring out where the line is crossed at which point it needs to find its way...

...into the actual product? You need to Seeo like loose Sernie, and I'm being star the cute bus saying that, but actually there's a part degree of reality and that as well, and that you've got to be really careful. As you say, you don't want to overrotate to a point where everything becomes a customer specific piece of code that you're putting into your platform. Your platform whenever scaled and never perform. It's going to slow down your broader road MAPP, as you indicated, and so you've got to be really careful. You got to get that balance and that's why we do quite a lot of cross functional dialog internally on some of those requirements and the feedback. I think you've got to create a discipline around it's be able to, as you say, understand what's noise and what's truly something you want to react to, and and that's largely a discipline of the product product management group, I believe. And the more outbound a product management team is as well, they can moderate a lot of the feedback that's coming in as well. But yeah, you do not want to over rotate to responding to every single customer need. You've got to be focused on your mission and your vision essentially, and then around that, reflect the needs of the market and listen to your customer a little bit better. When you switching tax a little bit, you know, as you've risen up through your career and now you're responsible. I think you mentioned a third of all new relcome plays are under under your umbrella and as your responsibilities have shifted, what do you think? I guess when you and again I'm just because there's there's a lot of youngsters out there, there's a lot of upandcoming folks that are interested in the difference between being an individual contributor or frontline manager and then how those responsibilities in the requirements of the roll shift and evolve as you move upwards in the corporate hierarchy. What do you think for you, are the key drivers, the key strengths that you're leveraging now at the executive level that you've had to develop over the course of the last few years to be effective in your current role, and and which of those were are not present or are less less present earlier in your career just maybe they weren't required? What are the key skills that you think are necessary to be effective as the chief customer officer? That's a great question. Actually, I think I see it quite a lot in our gas organization because we we've grown so tremendously over the course of the last three or four years. So I think when I started up we had about forty five pre cells people in the organization and today we have an excess of four hundred across pre cells and post cells. So we've grown pretty dramatically in the in the time that I've been here and we're incredibly fortunate with the talent that we've got in the organization. I think that the one of my roles is to be able to make sure that our organization is universally committed to the vision and the mission that we have and and part of our mission is in the customer success organization. are creating these lifelong customer advocates for new relic and we do that applying that UPUNTU philosophy that I mentioned earlier, and so my responsibility Nis very heavily focused on ensuring that understanding of our mission and our our role and responsibility in ensuring the customer success and how we do that most effectively. So, and I'll come back to possibly a little bit more of what my responsibilities are, but I want to go back to something you asked earlier. You know, I think we have, as I say, this great talent in the organization incredibly ambitious as well and want to move up through the ranks really quickly, and so I've seen a lot of evidence of people who are exceptional and the individual contributor roles and then within a year want to be a manager and within a year after they want to be a director, and so there's and I'm a huge fan of people who are a vicious and giving them early opportunity and allowing people to make mistakes and fail on through that building better skills for their career. I think this we've got to put our arms around people who want to move into management. It's probably the hardest job in the organization, in my view. First Line Management is incredibly hard. It's there's a huge amount of pressure, there's a lot of responsibility. Frequently, if you moving from an individual contributor a role to a management role requires a whole new series of skills and all too often people are put into that role because they aren't they've done an outstanding job as an individual contributor, but we haven't put the necessary investment and training around them to make them a great first line manager. And yet it's the most critical role, I think, in the organization. That's where the real action happens, that's where the real engagement happens with the customer and that's where you can make or break the organization, and so it's something that we, you know, are people, are function and some of our talent acquisition team have put a lot of emphasis and focus on. Is Making sure that we get the right blend of bringing in new talent into the organization who can bring in skill sets that others can learn from and can bootstrap the evolution of the organization, as well as putting some great programs around the front line management role for those who want to move into it from individual contributor position. So it's the great thing. I think at new relicas we have a normous opportunity for that. So I think, you know, encouraging those thinking of joining new relic...

...or and heard about new rel can are excited about what we're doing. There's a lot of opportunity to come over and do that, but it's it's a something that we think about every day about how we can make it better and more impactful to the organization. One of the things that you've said in the past if it's not illegal, it's just policy. Walk us through that idea, because I thought that was really interesting, particularly given the size of your organization, in the fact that you're a public company. Yeah, I think if it's it's interesting. I think that so often, and this is where I think organizations, in my experience, can get really bogged down and slowed down in the unnecessary policy, as I put it. And and so I think all too often we get wedded to these policies being around contractual stuff or pricing or how we deliver value or how we on board a customer or flexibility in our license utilization. And so the way I was just thinking about is that we often characterize those policies is almost something that's like a law and if you break it it's illegal. And the reality is, I mean you don't want to do anything that's you're a publicly traded company. Don't want to do anything that's is illegal. That's clear. But all too often we start out from the position that the policy can't be changed rather than how we're going to make the customer experience better. And I've it's been interesting in the market. I've seen a little bit of the emergence of a chief experience officer. Some people sort of toying with idea of creating creating a sea level executive who's solely focused on what is the customer experience end to end in all the interaction and interactions and touch points in the organization. I think that's really important is to always challenge yourself to think of how can you be better for in the eyes of the customer? How can you ensure that you're delivering more value and having greater impacts for them and for them delivering services are to their customers? I mean, we give you not maybe not an example of something that we changed as a policy, but if you think of some of the customers we work with and some of the incredible things that they're doing are in the market and the the events that we have to support. You know what we call it their moment of truth, whether it's black Friday or cyber Monday, or it's the Super Bowl and new streaming the event, they have these incredible moments where they've got to deliver their service in their products that are to the market and they've got to delight their customers and we're at the center of the ability to monitor out and ensure that that's happening and where it's not, being able to cause correct really quickly in and that's all in the interest of ensuring that they delight their customers, and so I just I just think you should challenge yourself to think that some of these policies may have been relevant a year ago, two years ago, five years ago. Are they still serving the customer or they're serving US internally and whilst we have to protect ourselves legally, etc. Etc. I think we need much more of a stronger orientation towards what's in the interest of the customer, what helps them delight their customers. And so when I say if it's not legal, it's just a policy, so break the fucking policy, that's that's just where I'm coming from. Is just it challenge your thinking. It's sometime it's rooted in a past time that you can now change. I completely agree, I think, to the point of some of the comments you've made. It always comes down to the founder and the CEO, because if they have created a culture where that's where that's okay and where there's space to do that, then then it will be possible. And if they've created a different kind of culture, one that isn't customer focused, then the alternative might very well happen. Absolutely when you look at it at other companies outside of new relic and you know again, so common themes from our audience are how do you make the jump from individual contributor to manager? There are specific questions that they have about functions and then one of the most commonly asked questions, because of the rate of failure of so many startups and high growth companies, as how do you choose the right company? So, when you think about company evaluation, what are the elements for you perhaps that went into taking this role at new relic or just as your I'm sure you know, your an advisor and an investor and an observer of many other companies out there in the valley. What are the common criteria for you when you're thinking about what makes a company successful? There so many different facts. As I concertin took about my own personal journey and joining new relic and some of the decision processes I went through. You know, I think we are in the midst of an enormous transformation in our industry with the advent of cloud and the cloud platform providers, and that's just driving huge amount of change in our industry. So it was very important to me to be part of that process. So looking for a pure multitenance as software provider and neurelic fell squarely within that range, within that criterium. I was certainly looking for an organization that...

...was ambitious around moving to the international markets, where I could use my international experience to bring to bear the company. I was passionate about a belief that it needed to be sort of a product let organization, a technology let organization. I think that's one of the things that Oracle certainly did really well in the majority of the time that I was with them. We had a technology it's that the help helm the company was passionate about technology, so that took the box. There Los an incredible CEO and a visionary in terms of technology and that was a huge plus fact, and you see that whether you look at glass door you see some of the interviews he does in public and things like that. He's a huge part of the element of what makes us successful. So I think leadership is critical, and then understanding the vision and the ambition of the company and where they're going and how bold they are in terms of what they want to achieve, I think is also critical. But you know, all of all of that said, I could very quickly tick to all the boxes for new relic on those factors. And then I spent a lot of time up in Portland with our engineering team, Jim Coach. He leads our engineering team and is just built at an amazing product and an amazing team. And then spend some time with the executives back here in San Francisco, and the whilst I had this long list in my mind, was sort of very literal evaluation of what was going to be important at the end of the day was the culture that just hits you so quickly in your interaction with people at new relic, and I think that's something that loose set out from the very start is to create a very specific culture at new relic and it is around being authentic, being bold, being passionate about what we believe in and being very collaborative in the way that we operate as well. So it's interesting, hiw I had these evaluation criteria and then it very quickly flipped to very heavily around the culture, and I think that the cultures what's going to stand you in good stead as you go three. Three is great growth phases and we certainly in one of those, going from five hundred billion to a billion. Those that we're in rarefied air. In terms of the number software companies that have done that in our industry, only twenty one have gone past the billion dollar marks. So I think cultures really at the heart of what you you think about when you evaluating a great company, and the way I often see that manifesting itself is when I've bought in new leaders into my organization, it's almost universal that within two to three weeks of being here they will turn around to me, as I feel like I've been here six to twelve months already, and that's speaks volumes to me about the way that we've been able to assimilate people into the organization and the degree to which we build on the culture as being a fundamental part of our success. Yeah, I agree completely. We're almost at the end of our time together, Roger. So, first of all, thank you so much for being on the show. We come to a part of the show where we love Roger Scott, but we also want to know who has influenced Roger Scott, who are the people that you look up to? We like to pay it forward so that we can celebrate some of the folks that have contributed both to your success and that you would respect and admire. So when you think about other commercial leaders, whether they're d piece of customer success, few piece of sales, chief marketing officers, but other folks that you look up to an admire in the industry. Who are some of those people? We'll see. I'M A it's going to be my wife. What's her name? A little bit honest. Her name is Michelle Ka, Michelle Ker. She's the Cmad Leva and I'm not sure if you're familiar with liver, but I think they ats right. Applican tracking system. Yeah, talent acquisition. Yeah, sorry, hiring process. It's a bigger category than I gave it credit for. I Apologize. That's all right. I'll say that. She's got to work on her marketing. It's getting tread everybody, but you know, she's been with him for fatty short amount of time. But it's clear to me that they thinking about talent deck with position in all the right ways. You know, talent acquisition for us at New Rolic is at the heart of US success. We've got to bring in talent into our organization. I think your ambition needs to extend beyond just your product in your service and it needs to extend to your talent acquisition, and that's one of the things I've deliberately done in my organization is to make sure that we hire people who are going to grow with the company and I actually going to be instrumental in the growth of company rather than hiring for the what we need today. But that's getting a little bit sidetrack. So I love what they're doing. I think actually her CEO and founder, Sarah and am, is inspirational in terms of some of the things that she's thinking of doing in the way she's driving that company. I guess the other thing that's been an overriding influence in my time of working in North America has been I've worked with three exceptional women leaders in the industry. I moved from Singapore to North America and work with Judy Sim who's the CMO at Oracle and started at Oracle as an intern and has ended up being the CMO and is just a remarkable success story. If anybody who wants to see what you can achieve in life suspend time. The first three years that I was living here in...

...the bay area I worked for her and was just a great learning experience and she give me incredible exposure in the company. On joining new Rolic I work for Hilary Coppler Mac Adams, who had done incredible things, and on the inside cells side of the business at Oracle before going over to run commercial sales. It sells force, and then ultimately the president in Crow neurolic and then today working for Erica Schultz as cro it's just been an absolute pleasure of the partnership that we formed and the collaboration that we have and the passion we've been able to instill in one another for the future and of our company. In the success for our companies has been amazing and I've just learned so much from all of them. So I think I've been really fortunate to work with some incredible leaders over the years. And then I would argue, I know it's a little bit unfair to bring it back to new Rolic a game, but I think lose just unbelievably inspirational person to to work for and to be part of an organization that he leads, and I think that's been such a central part of our success as well. I love it. Rider, thanks so much for being on the show. We've got a note to the to the to the point of talent acquisition. There's a number of folks out there probably looking for a job or that are interested in applying or reaching out to you after hearing this. So essentially the question is, are you open to being contacted or if people are interested in learning more about neurolic are about approaching you? What's your preferred method of communication? How would you like them to reach out? Great Question. I had thought about that. They sprung it on you. Yeah, I am more than happy for people who reach out reach out on Linkedin. That's probably a good starting point. Otherwise, you know, if you there are specific roles that you're interested in, let me know. concertainly facilitate interest auctions to the rod pots of the organization. If it's my organization, we're always on the outlook for great talent. So would welcome the personal outreach through Linkedin. Yeah, that's probably the best place to start. Perfect. Roger, thanks so much for being on the show and and we really appreciate it and we will talk to you soon. All right. Thanks so much, SAM, everybody at Sam's corner. What a fantastic interview with Roger Scott, the chief customer officer of new relic and a long time executive focused on all of the different facets that are that are critical to delivering great customer success and customer experience. Think it's interesting Roger talked about the differences between, you know, lower deal size, more high velocity, more transactional sales, where there's a clear divide between the new logo acquisition and then the account management of Customer Success Team and then the enterprise accounts where really it's becoming far more common for the salesperson and really the entire pre sales team to work that account from the presale all the way through the lifetime and life cycle of that customer. Roger talked about how his main goal is net revenue expansion. You know that the expansion component, which is which is somewhat I don't know if it's controversial, but many times the chief customer officer is not going to have a revenue metric at all. Actually, sometimes they might have gross unit retention, you know, they might have just how many logos did you retain over the course of that period? And let's not include expansion and let's not include up cells and they'll only be focused on customer delight and customer usage. But in Roger's case, you know, and probably it has something to do with the fact that he reports the chief revenue officer, but he is very, very focused on revenue expansion as the clearest output indicator of whether or not the customers happy. Now remember he made the point revenue happens at the end. Churn expansion that happens at the end of the of the interaction with a customer. There are many, many things that happen. In fact, most of the things happened before the end by definition, and so it's really important that you build in dashboards and instrument you were, your product usage and deliver yourself early warning signs when the customer is not moving on the on the path that you've determined as the successful path for them and for what an optimal customer journey looks like. And you can use platforms like a gainsight or at a tango that can help you uncover those signals. But just remember that you know that the churn, the expansion, that happens at the end of things, and so you really need to be focused on what is an effect of onboarding process and then what are the signals that your customers are giving you that tell them through usage of the platform and recurring usage of the platform, that they are either on the right path or have fallen off the right path. Something to think about. Lastly, that Buntu phrase that Roger Mention and I am because you are building customer orientation into the culture of the company. That that is really how you're going to be successful enterprise, be to be SASS. You know a lot of founders and a lot of companies. They don't they read the Steve Jobs biography. Steve Jobs, apple is a B Toc Company. It's not a be to be company for the most part. So your...

...iphone. That takes a visionary potentially to understand what are the requirements of that product. But in be tob enterprise ass again the idea that the founder is going to sort of have this beautiful visionary insight and hat and can safely ignore the feedback of the customers. Frankly, that's just bullshit and it's stupid and what you need to do as you grow and be Tob Sass as, you need to build the customer voice into the evolution of the product. That's how you do it. Steve Jobs is not a metaphor for be to be. It's a metaphor. For be to see. He is a metaphor. So just make sure next time somebody talks about Steve Jobs and how we know better than the customer, remember them and be tob don't know better than the customer. You need to listen to the customer. What you need to be good at is differentiating signal from noise, which piece of feedback is necessary and put that into the product roadmap and which piece of feedback can be ignored, because you don't want to be a custom development shop for every single customer. So this has been Sam's corner. We really want to thank Roger Scott for being on the show to check out show notes, the upcoming guests and play more episodes. The truth of the matter is that you cannot see upcoming guests, but you can do with the other things, check out show notes and play more episodes, and that's at sales hackercom and head to the PODCAST TAB. You'll find us anywhere podcasts are shared. If you heard something that you like, if you found some value in this podcast, please share it. Please share with your peers on Linkedin, twitter or elsewhere if you've got a great idea or your feedback for me. Find me on twitter at Sam f Jacobs. Are On linkedin at Linkedincom the word in, and then and then, Sam f Jacobs, we would absolutely love to hear from you. Finally, big shot out to our sponsors for this episode, Chorus, the leading conversation intelligence platform for highgress sales teams, and outreach, the leading sales engagement platform. Will see you next time.

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