The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

5. Moving Your Product (And Your Sales Team) Upmarket w/ Rick Smolen

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

On this episode of the Sales Hacker podcast, we talk with Rick Smolen, VP of Sales at Greenhouse about moving your product upmarket and how to sell your software to a big company. 

One two one thre three hi everyone and welcome to the SalesHacker podcast on your host Sam Jacobs, Fouder, the New York revenue collective.Before we start a quick thank you to this months. Sales Hanker, podcast,sponsor node nodes, AI discovery platform can understand the meaningcontext and connection between any person or company by proactivelysurfacing opportunities that are highly relevant and personalized in real time.Note is creating an entirely new paradigm for sales and markeingprofessionals to grow pipeline and accelerate revenent velocity vis. Itinpodot no don Io for whird sale, tacker to learn more and now on, withthe show, welcome to the sale hacker podcast. I'mSam Jacobs. Today, we've got a good friend of mine. Rick Smollen Rick iscurrently BPS sales atd greenhouse pior to greenhouse. He spent twelve and ahalf years of intrelinx where he began his sales career during his time atinthrer links, he started as an intervitial ontributor. He had threeyears as a frontline manager. He spent two years building out to go to marketin Hong Kong and the last four managing the rehuwe generating business linesacross North America and he joined greenhouse just under a year ago. Isthat right, rick? That is thanks? Sam Welcome yeah. Thank you for having mewe're excited to have you, so we really quick. We want to go over what we callyour baseball, cart stats, your name. Your name is Rick Small. It isn't yourtitle on the VP of sales at greenhouse software and how big is greenhouse agreenhouse is now over thirty million Arr and has a lot of ambition to growmore, and I think everybody I know knows what greenhouse is and does. Butif you had to describe the business just give us the general business bitch,the Elevator Bitch tous blad greenhouse does greenhouse. Is a software companysofkwards a service, that's focused on talent acquisition. We are relevant tocompanies that have challenges and sort...

...of for key areas. One sourcing andidentifying n attracting my quality talent to their organization, to theactual process of how they make hiring decisions between the recruiting team.Interviewers hiring managers and the process that candidates go throughthree would be the experience for candidates and hiring managers and newhires and four would be like the ability to measure their process and domore of what's working and Muss of what is okay got it. So you've been therejust under a year. How big is your organization we have about sixtyprofessionals on the sales team across tastr organization or accountexecutives and sales operations? That's impressive, so big team, you know whereI wanted to start and one of the reasons, besides the fact that you'Rfriend of mine and a member of the estimable New York revenue collective.Besides, all of that, I thought your storis really interesting, because youspent almost thirteen years at what most of us would consider a big company.I don't know if it still is, but I know at one point in Tilinx is public. Is itstill public? I know and no longer is it's Rigal ithe company, so they wentprivate, but you know a big company. Well, I think in the neighborhood ofsomewhere between a hundred and Fiftyn, two hundred million n in revenue, youstarted off as an individual antributor, so I'm just curious and I think itmight be interesting for those listening as you're thinking aboutmaking a switch from a big company to a small company. What were the factorsthat lend to that decision? When I joined INTROLINC it was a small companyand like place in my career when I joined, I wasn't really thinking aboutbig company or small company. I just wantd to have a big impact. Learn dowell and, as I grew through my career at intrelinks, and looked back on likewhat just happened over the last dozen years, the excitement of going from asmall company into a big one, the journey that that was, I learned somuch and I got so much out of it. I wanted to repeat that type of journeyaf possible and start from a more elevated position where I can have aneven bigger impact. So I was very...

...intent to join a company that had thissort of stat line of Green House. How did you find greenhouse, or did theyfind you? I had started to look for positions. I was speaking to recruitersand somebody that had sold me software in the past reached out to me and saidI had built somewhat of a relationship with this account executive and he hadtried to get me to join his company and during that interview process he leftthat company and said you shouldn't Jo this compn, but I want to introduce youto the HEADOF sales operations at greenhouse they're, an amazing company,and they have a role for VPS sales and they're, an awesome New York basedcompany and like why? Don't you just go and have a conversation, so I met thesales operations lead. As I learned and dig more into the opportunity in thecompany. I was really excited about what I saw and then I got into theinterview process and was fortunate enough to be selected for the position.Well, congratulations. I think it's a very strong endorsement when someone isrecruiting you to be their boss. Essentially it it sounds like this.Unnamed account executive was doing so. Congratulations: an making a goodimpact when you know you mentioned over thirty million. Tell us you know, justin terms of we're always interested in learning about go to market for USANDBversus midmarket versus enterprise, on truous sort of the state of the company,because it's been growing rapidly for a little while previously under theleadership of a mutual friend Mark Jacobs. But you inherited, you know,give us a little bit of the dynamic between us and be midmarket enerpriseand then, where your growth prospects lie and your opinion yeah. It's a goodquestion. When I joined the company, I think it was really well orchestratedto do smb and to do mid market. Well. The reason is the all the salesprocesses, all the sales tech was centered around high velocity selling,like large number of transactions and creating efficiencies for gettingopportunities from SDRs over to account...

...executives. Getting some discovery donegetting the demo completed, andclosing the deal and moving on to the next one.The organization was very good at at that, and there was a lot of ambitionat the company to go up market towards the enterprise and what I thinkeveryone was finding is that the sales process for that was very different andthere was some struggle to sort of deal with those dynamics where you don'twant to lose the momentum and success that you're having in the othersegments. But what do you have to do? On top of that to be successful,selling to larger companies? That was became to me, like the one of the mainareas where I felt I culd make an impact which is like don't mess up thethings that are going really well and help build some new know supplementaryprocessies in order for us to do to have some success up market. So thatwas a one of the glaring sort of opportunities that that existed. When Ijoined what are the elements that are required first, to evaluate whether iteven makes sense to go up market everybody talks about going up market?Is it appropriate for every company? I now, through the networking and peoplehave met through you Sam. I hear all the time that companies want to move upmarket, that that is their ambition and I think, there's a lot of good reasonsfor that, because if you can develop relationships with big companies, theirbigger relationships, financially, they tend to last longer, and you knowthey're valued overall by you know the investment community. So the questionreally, though, once you get in beyond the ambition is: Do you actually havethe value that you can deliver for larger companies? Their requirementsare more significant. The state holders and decision makers involved ord, futmuch more extensive and more complex, and so you need to a you need to havevalue that you can deliver and like actually be able to deliver on wherether gaps, where you guys had to build that value over the last twelve months,I would say that, like the company decided that the biggest opportunityfor it long term was in moving up...

...market because of the landscape ofother players in the space and the opportunity to differentiate wasactually larger at big companies than it was at the bottom of the market, andso that was potentially unique to just the talent acquisition landscape, thegreenhouses in, and so the company had gone on. You know I'd say at least atwenty four month journey before I even arrived to prepare the company to beable to succeed in the enterprise, so that starts with product right. Doesthe do you have the back end front and capabilities that more complexorganizations are going to need? Do you have a service model that can deliverbased on Slas and International Dynamics? Do you have than the selling muscle to be able to?Actually, you know, have a conversation that leads to a deal with organizationswhere there's a real precurement function? Where there's you knowsignificant politics about how decisions get made a lot of the stuffoutside of sales was actually pretty far along when I joined, which is areal advantage that that would allow us to accelerate if I had come in andthose elements weren't in place, no matter how you know no matter what Iwould bring to bear it kind of goes back to that question. Can you deliverfor those larger companies, and you know my impression right away was thatwe absolutely could that there really was an opportunity there, and therereally was a all the groundwork Hald had been laid, and so now we needed tosort of build the sales muscle to execute against that. So when you'rethinking about building that sales muscle, what does that mean? And how doyou build it? Do you change the sales process? Do you hire different peopleand I'm also interested in segmentation, because there's probably some amount ofinbound leads? Considering how much inbound is being generated bygreenhouse's excellent marketing organization, where Yo start having tocreate territories and Sifom them off? So what are the elements that go intoupgrading or differentiating the sales go to market motion so that you canattack the enterprise appropriately Tso t? The first thing I do was to try todefine the motion itself wor a sales...

...process and what would be differentabout these opportunities and why they would be different and then try to getbelievability within the sales organization or t the folks that werefocused on this area. When I joined the company, the folks that were focused onenterprise had historically been in O, know SMB or mid market or be doing allthose kind of deals, and so their muscle memory was tied towards thatfaster sale cycle of like demoin clothes and changing that mindset,which involves a bunch of different things. It's involves getting a lotmore people involved. It involves a lot more meetings internally to prepare forlike what that customer engagement is going to be, and so just trying to getthe folks on the sales team to digect. The differences and then to embrace andbelieve themselves that this will help them win deals in this area. So I'llgive you an example like when I joined, I saw a couple of examples of Lotosthat I very much want love to have greenhouse have as customers youre lostto those deals, and I looked at the sales engagement and there were a lotof opportunities to do things differently that were not seized, andso the AE would treat that opportunity, like any other one. So they didn't Cyounow so phone calls and did like good discovery and probably had a reallyquality conversation, the demo, it probably killed the demo. It must havebeen amazing and, like I'm confident it was an awesome demo, but it was doneover zoom or you know, ver a Webx. It wasn't done lives. There were a lot ofstate holders involved in the decision process, but you know they was likely just following whatever theprocess was at the customer level, and then the thing that got me is like thisexecutives from our company were like often in the location of where thesecompanies were, but no effort was made to like create some executiveengagement to create some other touchpoints within the company, so thatwe would demonstrate to them a spirit of partnership, a goal to a line andlike actually appear like we're a big...

...company and know how to deal with thelikes of those, and so it was evident to that. There were basic things thatwe could do that I hadn't been done before, and so it was just trying tochange the mindsets of the celler in order to do that and then were otherareas like the way rfpeace came in, we didn't create. You know there wasn'tnecessarily a process to like hey. If an RFP comes in how we going toevaluate. How can we going to compare with what our plan is? Are we going toplay to win or we just going to fill it out and send it? And so you know it waslike analyzing that whole situation and trying to figure out where ouropportunities were, did you guys create a deal disk? We still talk aboutcreating a deal desk. You know this element of how you do pricing of howyou, when we bring new products to market like what are some of theelements around how that, from finance to sales to sales, ops, how that allfits together, I think over time will eventually build a deal desk, but nowwe do not have dyou Hof an internal council. I hope yes, that we do havegood, and that is that is a requirement Yiv ut yeah I mean if you're gettingredlines and you know and you're in the middle of multipage contractnegotiations are of penegotiations with a large enterprise and you're usingoutside counsil. It's probably not going to be a successful endeavor,we're fortunate to not be in that posit. So there's those are some tactics, Tisthe profile of the account executive change, and I guess to the pointconsidering so many you know up and comers yore listening to this andprobably ane an opportunity to work with greenhouse and work with you. Whatdo you consider to be the profile of a great account executive yeah? It's agreat question: it's an evolving one over time. I'd say I might have come inwith a hypothesis of what was required in order to besuccessful in each of the different segments and through experience,continue to learn I'll focus on enterprise and within our space.There's a lot of HR tech landscape.

When we're thinking about the profileof a successful enterprise account executive, you know how do you thinkabout that and walk us through? Maybe some of the evolution of your thoughtprocess when you joined, I was balancing it when I joined. Do we needsomebody to from the space that has expertise around town acquisition or HRtech versus a really strong enterprise seller that can learn the dynamics ofthe market and our buyer, and I still sort of try to balance those needs. Iwould say for our company, the areas of focus have become one is being bordroom ready. Is that person can somebody come in and go into the boardroom of alarge company and be a credible partner to an executive at a large firm, and sowe have a variety of ways that will test for that, but I think it's areqire so give us one way. How do you test for Board Room Ready? Is it doestheir suit fit? Did they show up to the interview Clean Shaven? So when you gothrough and you learn about somebody's experiences, just the way that theyspeak about the problems that they solved like? If you ask about, you,know a great deal that they closed from beginning to end, and you dig into that.It becomes evident at least to me about how they think about the value thatthey created and, if they're talking in terms of like problems solved ofobstacles overcome of like there was a clever thinking to how they impactedthe deal, and there was an element of a champion or an executive at thecustomer who you know they impacted in some way you can overlay. You know inyour mind this person or this candidate in front of an executive at a perspective, customerwe'd love to sell to and you're making the decision like will you know, willthis person be effective? Another area...

...is simply just asking about theirexperience of dealing with executives of large companies and what aresometimes they've had to do that and how they prepared for it. And you knowwhat was a time I went really well and what was Ha time that didn't I'mthinking so obviously, to the point of if they've had to talk to executivesbefore and they're board and ready, there's a level of experience. Have youfigured out what is the right level of experience that you guys need agreenhouse to be successful? Well, I mean I've become at the point now sam.So if I actually step back and say, but how did we even get to the point thatwe're at now as we do hiring when I joined right away? I started you knowinterviewing both for leadership, for the enterprise and for individualcontributors. Part of it was for me to learn. Ou Know I had a workinghypothesis of what we needed and part part of it was to just sort of see whattypes of profiles er out there and to try to figure out what t would work,but the most important thing I felt like we needed to do was sort of provethat we could be successful within selling to these customers. I've seen alot of companies. Thatill hire a lot of. What's call it enterprise accountexecutive, but they really haven't proved that they can at scale sell tothese large companies and it cost a lot of money to bring in that type oftalent cost a lot of money to train them, and so you want to be set up tosucceed overall, and so I found like the first sixto nine months was likelaying the groundwork in order to be able to do that, and so what that meantwas. I felt I needed to be out in the field I needed to be part of the teamthat would that could help us. You know win that really large companies cansort of. You know game change, the Arr levels that the company was used toclosing. What were some of those ranges? You don't have to give a specifics, butyou know what are the range? Let's just say that, like you, K Ow, the deals Iwas interested in were like well north of a hundred thousand dollar Ar r dealslike the type of ones that you know are very impactful for the company andhistorically the average deal. Even an...

...enterprise was, it was a decent amountbelow that, and so you know it was truly like the next step up, not quiteat the million dollar aor range. But you know certainly a big step up formore of the company. reviously was, and there were those oppr the opportunitiesto do that were in play. Now the process es the sales execution to beable to doiver. On that we, you know there was work to do in order to getthere, and so I felt that before I go out and build this whole team in scale,I really felt I needed to believe that we could do it nd. So like I wanted tobe part and an participant on the deal of closing some of these larger deals.I partnered with a couple of the account executives and I felt it wasreally important to be deeply involved in those sales processes, and so, whileyou know interviewing potential leaders, while interviewing potential accountexecutives like proving it that we can do this, and I so I feel like weaccomplished that in in two thousand and seventeen, we closed a whole hostof like really exciting and needle moving deals for the company, someamazing blogos and companies that aren't necessarily the profile that isat normally associated with greenhouse greenhousis, often Associa, like techcompanies and things. I that nature, that you know we were able to close ahost of a variety of industries and companies of real size and some thathave been around a long time. D stuff, like that so example, would be like.BAYATA is a giant Home Healthcare Company that has twenty fivehsandemployees. A lot of them are homehealth care workers and they're, not a techcompany, hiring engineering talent but like they deeply care their talent,focused organization and they're competing for nurses, just like siliconvalleys competing for engineers and they're looking to differentiate and tobe better than their competition in a world where there's a limited supplyversus the demand for that type of worker, and so to be able to likepartner with an organization over twenty five ousand employees in anindustry that greenhouse might not...

...normally be associated with and thendeliver that value for them to be able to deliver a differentiated solution.That's going to help them win in their market. That builds a lot of confidencefor me and for the organization that you know we can start to do this atscale. So you need to have some good data points to then be able to makesome additional investment to build out that team. What are the data points?You're? Looking at you know this, the enerprise sale cycles can be are longernow they don't have to be two years, but they're probably going to be. Youknow in the six to nine, maybe twelve month range, especially for enterpricecustomers that are using large. You know, ATS systems that have to beripped out of n and then might be on multiyear relationship. So I guess onequestion I have: How do you know what are the metrics you're looking at orwhat are the capeeys you're looking at even before the deal closes to knowthat the initiative is having success? Well, okay, so t at a Makro level. Ithink one of the things that we've done, that I'm I'm proud of, because it wasreally th. The team that D that sort of pulled this together was we did. Wetook a lot of data. There are a lot of companies out there. We prioritized byindustry and we prioritize for like large companies and Weso. We had a bigDataset of potential targets and, to your point, there are so many out therethere's a variety of dynamics about whether they' be a good buyer of thistype of technology or God, and so what we ended up doing was like coming upwith the variables that a company that would be a good fit for our solution.What attributes would those companies have and there's like a whole? I Wal inthe De There's a whole host of like of dynamics in a company that would scorethem higher as a good fit for us, theyre forign thinking with theirpeople. Organizations they've demonstrated to a variety of ways thattalent is like a super important thing to their company they've been on likebest places to work, or you know those types of things: they've eenvested intechnology like they're, not like an aniquated, you know kind of company anda host of other measures, and then we...

...were able to score a large dataset ofcompanies to be able to say like all right. These are the priority targetsfor US overall. That would enable us to do things like film territories to beable to do things like run ABM campaigns against the most high valueones, to the extent we're able to get data on like their exict, their currentstate of where they are in their ats or their towen acquisition stat. Usingthat information to prioritize as well when you're, in the position that we'rein with a lot of opportunity ahead and the market is not saturated. With oursolution, you're able to sort of identify a large set of customers thatare either at the right timing or just have all the attributes that would be agreat fit for us that allows us to create some real sales and marketingmuscle behind to pursue. So we did that and then, as it relates to you, know,bringing in account executives. It's now managing like how do we partnerwith marketing around doing our AVM initiatives? What outside of those ABMinitiatives which do take a lot of time to execute oneffectively? What are someof your favorite ABM initiatives account base marketing for those thatdon't know the acronym? But what are some of the things that you were reallyexcited about? Well, we redid our scoring system. We created a new kindof category called like an mqa which is quite different than an MPL anddifferent than you know, some of the other ones which is like what is theamount of interaction with our content in our company. That would make thatget passed over to sales for a specific account, and we did some things that I think arepretty cool like we're using some social media targeting and advertisingwe're using some physical gifts. In certain cases we are doing somemarketing automation based nurturing, based on the interactions that thecustomers are doing with us. We have our SDR's account executives and evenleadership. Having touchpoints when a...

...company gets to a certain point ofengagement or a score we're going to, then you know reach out in acoordinated way, with some more personalized stuff at for a variety oflevels within the company and so there's a lot of orchestration. Thatgoes into that, and it's important to me that we put in the right amount oftime to do that. Well, so we get a large enough percentage of thosecompanies that were going after to turn into opportunities. Then, of course youknow, I e a good amount of those opportunities turning into deals, so wehave some goals that we set around it. I can't say that we're there, the mostscientific in the world, so maybe they're a little conservative, maybethey're too ambitious wer we're going to kind of figure that out, but inaddition to those programs, there's a whole outbound cavence. That willhappen between our STR team and our account executives as we justopportunistically a new chief people officer get stapfed at some company.You know a new update, the things that happened in the news just throughresearch. Overall, we had a lot of imbound were fortunate to get a lot ofinbound leads, and so how does that fit into the overall kind of Caden soadthat our sales team will go through? You know there is an existing pipeline,and so we can't forget that, like there are deals that are definitely in play,but the timing on those was, you know three quarters out and so like shame onus. If we let those things die and and don't kind of maximize, you know thatthat existing pipeline, so putting together the framework thatallows all of those to be successful using each of those. You know swimlanesto help drive like what success looks like and to build up overall targets. Ithink that was a fun exercise. It was like a working hypothesis, an where wethink our business is going to come from. You know the ABM, just generaloutbound, through inbown and through our existing pipeline did you have tochange your pricing model. I'm always curious to what extent price has beenan objection at what point you know, how do you draw the line and how do youfigure out a hundred and fifty thsandollar? Is the right amount toquote whether it's three hundred thousand whethers five hundred housandor did you just use your standard? You...

...know seatbased volume, base pricingmodel and applied it to a large organization. I think the company has areally strong pricing model that creates leverage and createsefficiencies. The larger you are as an organization, so we're fortunate to bein a position that we have a proven pricing model that works at the sametime when you get into negotiations with really large organizations, youknow that part of what makes a great seller is an ability to have a mutuallybeneficial negotiation with like a large organization. So you there arefactors that we are able to negotiate outside of price that really do matter.Marketing Joint Marketing efforts, case studies, Ou Sologo participation inevents. The actual package, like the product package that the customer willget some of the legal abements within like the redlines within the contract,can be a variable. The service model that they're going to be able to getbased on their needs. The there are a lot of elements and enaval. What do Ineed to take away if you're going to want to lower the price by that level?You know there's a lot of ways. We can go about it, but and it's true Wi maywe don't have quite as many customers in that segment, as we do in some ofthe other ones, where there's a real proven market, but so far I feel likethe pricing model that we have in place has enabled a productive negotiation tohappen, and if we are focused on value for the customer and not just on likethe features that greenhouse would deliver, it becomes a lot easierbecause, if we're building out with our customers like what is the goal of thisinvestment, what are you trying to achieve from your talent acquisitionprocess? If you think about the amount of money that a company spendsinvesting in human capital and if you think you can make a big impact in thespeed of hiring the quality of hiring the improvement of your employer brandthrough just being good at doing getting the whole company focused onrecruiting and doing it? Well, then, the value that you can create for yourbusiness is so significant and if you...

...believe that we're the solution, that'sgoing to get you from like how you do it today to where you want to be, then,like the pricing, becomes far far less of a relevant thing. So so I think thekey to doing all of this stuff is to really create this, like value basedselling mentality throughout your sales organization, and that's been a hugegoal of mine. It's probably the number one initiative that I've in order totry to avoid with it. This exact dynamic that you're talking about likephrice becoming you know, an obstacle to to delivering value for customers.That's a really important place so put in thevid bas selling mathodology. AllI gd greenhousehouse walk us through that process. Ose mentioned it's one ofyour most important initiatives. Our company is not a point solution likethree or four people at the company. Just can't go by greenhouse and thenuse it on their own and like not have the rest of the organization, knowabout it. Those solutions exist and they have their own dynamics to them.But you know greenhouse is really a part platform. That's going to be usedby every stake holder in the company. That's involved in hiring like fullstop, so not just the recruiting team, but like anyone that does interviewingpeople that give referrals all the hiring managers, you know to really winit hiring. It really is a team sport, and so everyone that is involved in anyway is going to be using the platform. So it's a big change for a company tobe able to go. Do that. So, if you're going to do a big change, yours needsto be a real, the company's going to have to make a commitment in order tomake it successful so that you need to now tie to something to a real problemthat needs to be fixed for that company. Historically, if you go in and talkjust about how great your product is, it's going to be very difficult becausethat's not going to lead to a sale what's going to lead to a sale is likesolve a thing, a major problem. So I joined the company and I was impressedbecause of the depth of like what this application to do. Every accountexecutive needs to have their head on a swivel in order to like be able toadapt to like what matters to a perspective customer. So I come in. Istart listening to do these customer...

...interactions and I see how varied theyare, and I see how deep some of the things within our application and withsome of the workflows that that custumers go through and care about andwithin those like varied conversations. I'd see these nuggets of, likegreatness, like a celler on our side, would say something that was soimpactful I would it would just you know I' kind of try to capture that inmy head, but that wasn't another seller in that same situation might saysomething totally different. So there was really inconsistent conversationsbased on just like the varid things that their customers care about and thesheer depth of what like the application, can do, and so it's hardto have like what oes good look like for a seller when it can go in. So manydifferent directions. I felt like he kind all over the place so and anotherthing is like the reps get trained on the product. An they get program totalk about how awesome the product is and like early on that probably worksreally well because, like earlyadoptors will buy the vision, but if we're goingto scale into a big company there, you get beyond those early adopters thatbuy into a vision and like they care about the things they need to solve andnot how great your company is. This all kind of lines up in my mind- and I waslike how do we create stronger customer centered conversations that will have abetter chance to lead to deals consistently. So so I kind of made thedecision to bring it a third party and deploy a consistent sales methodology,a greenhouse. So we chose force management, I'm not sure if fooks arefamiliar with them, but really the primary reason I selected them was. Idid have experience in the past, but they take a winning framework. Almostlike you know, if you want to equate it to an exercise program, there's a lotof great exercise programs out there. But what really matters is thatsomebody that wants to get fit as to actually do the work and so follow theprogram. So there's a lot of great selling methodology programs that areout there. You know I'm not saying this one t e better than any other one, butwhat I liked about the framework that force management brought. Is They forceyou as a company to actually like build...

...out the content that you were going totrain the team on so we'd get the best people within our companycrossfunctionally to build all of the content that are going to drive ourcustomer conversations you get all of those nuggets gathered in one placeright. Those nuggets are greatness, are now gathered in inside of one frameworkthat would allow our sellers to bed or drive customer conversations, and solike the projects on going for US- and I me N, you know not able to quite sayit's a success. Yet, although I'm feeling very optimistic about it, butthe goals are like help bar account executives, develop the sale skillsnecessary so that they can attach our solution to like big problems at acompany, and I mean problems that are big enough- that get money allocated tosolvetem. That's a really important point, because companies of all kindsof problems, and not all of them, get funded, so you've got to really elevatehow your solution can impact the company and one of the things that youdid. If I recall correctly, you made this a point of conversation in theinterview process, because this was a significant investment for greenhouseyeah. I think you know going back to what we talked about earlier, which isthis ambition to go at Arcin in a real belief that we have the Magic Lik. Wehave the type of solution that wil will drive great outcomes for customers ofsize, so it isn't just a thing like. Oh we want to be there, it's like! No, wecan really move the needle for these companies like we got it, and so it waslike how you going to do that and I articulated a vision of using amethodology that attaches to the biggest problems at companies andcreates consistency in the sales conversation so that we can actuallylike just not be all over the place. We can play offense, we can drive theconversation. Are you as the seller better at helping the customer by orthey better at buying, your solution, and you know here Greenhou say- weretwenty five hundred customers. We are way better at helping a customer by oursolution than they are so like. We...

...actually have real expert. So we drivethat sales conversation. We can do it in a way that can actually get to anoutcome, and I think a lot of sellers will allow themselves to just be led bythe customer. Thinking of the customer knows how to get something done, butoftentimes as conforts. I don't know how to buy. I don't know how, likedecisions get made in our company, they have problems for sure they would lovetheir problems to be to be addressed, and sometimes they have the power andinfluence to go. Make that happen, but bigger companies, man you're, going toneed to attach to something really big other than your personal problems inorder to get something funded and so, and part of this was an attempt to moreoften be able to do that, and so one of the things was like yeah. What are thebusiness challenges that large companies have? Really any companieshave that we are most relevant to so? If we're going to go win, we? U Know wecan't win every deal and we can't be on every opportunity, so we really need tobe on the ones that were most relevant to a big problem, and we want to haveconsistency in the way will position our solution to perspective customersso that, like we, can have the conversation on our terms, rather thanbeing, you know, bounced around all over the place as the ever changinglandscape, of where the customers going would drive the process so itsconsistency in the way we talke about our the problems we solve in oursolution at a customer level and then consistency internally on how wequalify opportunities on how we coach our reps on deals. So those are biggoals like if you can do that. Well, it just enables the organization Ol justbe a hell, a lot better and more efficient and waste a lot less time.Those are all areas that, as how I'll measure the success of this are wedoing those things. Are we elevating to bigger problems? Are we elevating theproblems that we know were relevant to address? Are we having consistency inthe customer conversation around those areas? Are We internally qualifying andcoaching based on a way that drives ar reps to that area? And you know R, asdictating the terms of the buyers...

...journey, rather than just like,following whatever process that the customer is either either has or ismaking up as they go alow over time, so I'm bullish, but that that is a realbig project that that I'm committed to US doing successful. We're committingto your success as well. So we'll be cheering you on we're almost at a timeone sort of last personal question. You know you think about giving advice tosome of the fulks that are coming up to the ranks and you think about animpactful moment in your career. What is one that jumps out? That's a goodquestion, so I I think about my career, how it kind of got to this point. Whatalong the way might have accelerated my development or made me feel moreconfident to do bigger things or take on more responsibility. I mean part ofits just be lucky like Bein. A good place always have the right mindset inthe right attitude, but I think a point in my career that helped me the most.It was my inertime. I went international and I lived in Asia forover two years and I entered what was like by all intentive purposes, of justan impossible situation: Twelve hour time zone away. So whatever time it waswhere I was, it was the same time in New York, but am instead of PM, and soit's you can't technology can't escape that. We haven't figured out how tolike fully decompresse time zons yet, and then you have a varied customerbase because there's a lot of different countries in different languages, thesophistication dealing internally in own organization dealing with thecustomers and those elements, it's just impossible. I was aware of what time itwas in London, New York and Hong Kong all the time its just embedded in myhead, like whatever time it was. I thought of it in three places it oncerather than just one like I do now getting out of Your Comfort Jon andgetting into the most difficult situations possible, like thatexperience for me was like Green Brey training for sales, and so when I cameback in an elevated position looking after businesses in North America andthat whole host of problems from individuals came at me like a Sunami,they felt so iminently manageable. I...

...was like Oh, my God. These are. Theseproblems are so solivable and it gave me a lot of confidence to be able totake on greater responsibilities. So for me it was like what was the time inmy career, where I got the most out of my comfort zone. It was going to theother side of the world, for others, it'll be just the situation you can getearlier in your career, that's extremely difficult, where you're justgoing to have to like adapt or die. Those will be excelerance in your. Youknow, competency set to succeed in your career. I think that's great advicevery last question. I know you guys are trying to double. I'm assuming you maynot be hiring a hundred people right now, but you're probably hiring so iffolks want to get in touch with you, can they and what's the best way, doyou prefer linked in twitter? Email Linkdin is a great place, Om, just ricksmell and all one word, R, ick Sm Ol en and also Rick, at greenhouse dot, ioWele love to have people reach out rick. Thank you so much for joining. I willsee you at future meetings of the revenue collective. Thank you very muchham, everybody's Sam's corner another greatinterview this time with my good friend, Rick, small and VPF sales at greenhousegreenhouse is going through this interesting transformation where theystarted off as a midmarket business and they're moving up into the enterprise.That's something that a lot of companies talk about doing it's muchharder than it appears. One of the things that you're going to have toRedo is your entire sales process, and the sales process at the enterpriselevel is much more complicated than folks. I think appreciate based on myexperience, because the entire act of discovery is going to take placethrough multiple stakeholders and multidecision makers, and one of thetactics that you might want to use is to map out the deal in much greaterdetail than you would for a midmarket deal. Identify all of the Keystakholders. First identify what is their power influence within the organizationand make sure that you're speaking to...

...people and Working People as championsthat are above the power line. The second thing you might want to do isscore their preference and disposition to your solution on a scale fromnegative, fifty depositive, fifty and candidly, I'm stealing this from myfriend Dave Govan. But what you do is you try to understand? Who are thepeople that are influencable? That is people that are between negative twentytopositive, twenty, the people that maybe they lean negative or neutral toyour solution. But you can persuade them. You can change their mind andthose are the people that you focus on, particularly when those people canactually do something about the deal. I think one of the things that I've seenin my enterprise sales career is that the reps. naturally, you naturally willwant to spend time with people that want to spend time with you. Thosemight be the project management team on the other side of the negotiation, butyou're often spending time with people that really don't have very muchinsuence or power, and so it's really important that, yes, you want tocultivate those relationships because they can be supporters to hout thesales process but make sure you're spending time above the power line,wish people that have power and then look for people that are neutral toslightly skeptical, that you can influence, possibly through yourchampion or through your own sale skills. So those are some of mythoughts. Moving up market into the enterprise is an exciting challenge. Ipersonally love selling to the enterprise, but there are differentstrategies and tactics that you're going to need to employ. So this hasbeen Sam's corner and thanks for listening to check out the show, notes, seeupcoming guests and play more episodes from our incredible ineuppof salesleaders visit sales, hackercom podcast. You can also find the saletackingpodcast on itunes or people play. If you enjoyed this episode, please giveus a share: Orm, Linkin, twitter or any other social media platform and finally,special thinks again to this months, sponsor at node Seymore at INFO gotnode dot, io forard sales hacker. Finally, if you want to get in touchwith me, find me on twitter, at Sam f Jacobs or on Linkdon at lenkoncom INSLA,Sam, F, Jacobs, I'll, see you next time.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (328)