The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

5. Moving Your Product (And Your Sales Team) Upmarket w/ Rick Smolen

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

On this episode of the Sales Hacker podcast, we talk with Rick Smolen, VP of Sales at Greenhouse about moving your product upmarket and how to sell your software to a big company. 

One, two, one, three, three. Hi everyone and welcome to the sales hacker podcast. I'm yourhost, Sam Jacobs, founder of the New York revenue collective. Before westart, a quick thank you to this month's sales hacker podcast sponsor node.NODES AI discovery platform can understand the meaning, context and connection between any person orcompany by proactively surfacing opportunities that are highly relevant and personalized in real time. Note is creating an entirely New Paradigm for sales and marketing professionals to growpipeline and accelerate revenue velocity. Visit Info dotnode dot ioh for Wich sales hackerto learn more. And now on with the show. Welcome to the saleshacker podcast. I'm Sam Jacobs. Today we've got a good friend of mine, Rick Smolan. Rick is currently VPS sales at greenhouse. Prior to greenhouse, he spent twelve and a half years at introlinks, where he began hissales career. During his time at introlinks he started as an introvidual contributor.He had three years as a frontline manager. He spent two years building out thego to market in Hong Kong and the last four managing the revenue generatingbusiness lines across North America and he joined greenhouse just under a year ago.Is that writer? That is thanks, Sam. Welcome. Yeah, thankyou for having me. We're excited to have you. So really quick wewant to go over what we call your baseball card stats. Your name.Your name is Rick Small. It isn't your title. I'm the VP ofsales at greenhouse software. And how big is greenhouse? Greenhouse is now overthirty million Arr and has a lot of ambition to grow more. And Ithink everybody I know knows what greenhouse is and does. But if you hadto describe the business, just give us the General Business Pitch, the elevatorbitch toss. What greenhouse does? Greenhouse is a software company, software asa service that's focused on talent acquisition. We are relevant to companies that havechallenges and sort of for key areas. One, sourcing and identifying and tractinglike quality talent to their organization, to the actual process of how they makehiring decisions, between the recruiting team, interviewers, hiring managers and the processthat candidates go through. Three would be the experience for candidates and hiring managersand new hires, and for would be like the ability to measure their processand do more of what's working and less of what is okay, got it. So you've been there just under a year. How big is your organization? We have about sixty professionals on the sales team across the steer organization,our account executives and sales operations. That's impressive. So big team. Youknow where I wanted to start, and one of the reasons we said thefact that your friend of mine and a member of the estimable New York revenuecollective. Besides all of that, I thought your story is really interesting becauseyou spent almost thirteen years at what most of us would consider a big company. I don't know if it still is, but I know at one point inTrinks is public. Is it's still public? I know no longer is. It's right, I have a company. So they went private. But youknow, a big company. Well, I think in the neighborhood of somewherebetween hundred and fifty and two hundred million in revenue. You started offas an individual contributor. So I'm just curious and I think it might beinteresting for those listening as you're thinking about making a switch from a big companyto a small company. What were the factors that led to that decision?When I joined intro links, it was a small company and, like placein my career, when I joined I wasn't really thinking about big company orsmall company. I just wanted to have a big impact, learn do welland as I grew through my career at intro links and looked back on likewhat just happened over the las a dozen years, the excitement of going froma small company into a big one, the journey that that was. Ilearned so much and I got so much out of it I wanted to repeatthat type of journey if possible and start from a more elevated position where Ican have an even bigger impact. So...

I was very intent to join acompany that had this sort of stat line of greenhouse. How did you findgreenhouse, or did they find you? I had started to look for positions. I was speaking to recruiters and somebody that had sold me software in thepast reached out to me and said I had built somewhat of a relationship withthis account executive and he had tried to get me to join his company andduring that interview process he left that company and said you shouldn't join this company, but I want to introduce you to the head of sales operations at greenhouse. They're an amazing company and they have a role for VP of sales andthere are an awesome New York based company and like, why don't you justgo and have a conversation? So I met the sales operations lead. AsI learned and dig more into the opportunity in the company, I was reallyexcited about what I saw and then I got into the interview process and wasfortunate enough to be selected for the position. Well, congratulations. I think it'sa very strong endorsement when someone is recruiting you to be their boss essentially, which it sounds like this unnamed account executive was doing. So congratulations.I'm making a good impact. When you know you mentioned over thirty million.Tell us, you know, just in terms of we're always interested in learningabout go to market for us and B versus mid market versus enterprise. I'mcurious sort of the state of the company because it's been growing rapidly for alittle while previously under the leadership of a mutual friend, Mark Jacobs, butyou inherited you know, give us a little bit of the dynamic between usand be mid market and our price, and then where your growth prospects lieand your opinion. Yeah, it's a good question. When I joined thecompany I think it was really well orchestrated to do smb and to do midmarket. Well, the reason is the all the sales processes, all thesales tech, was centered around high velocity selling, like large number of transactionsand creating efficiencies for getting opportunities from SDRs over to account executives, getting somediscovery done, getting the demo completed and closing the deal and moving on tothe next one. The organization was very good at at that and there wasa lot of ambition at the company to go up market, towards the enterprise, and what I think everyone was finding is that the sales process for thatwas very different and there was some struggle to sort of deal with those dynamicswhere you don't want to lose the momentum and success that you're having in theother segments, but what do you have to do on top of that tobe successful selling to larger companies? That was became to me like the oneof the main areas where I felt I could make an impact, which islike, don't mess up the things that are going really well and help buildsome new supplementary processes in order for us to do to have some success upmarket. So that was a one of the glaring sort of opportunities that existedwhen I joined. What are the elements that are required? First, toevaluate whether it even makes sense to go up market. Everybody talks about goingup market. Is it appropriate for every company? I now, through thenetworking and people have met through you, Sam, I hear all the timethat companies want to move up market, that that is their ambition, andI think there's a lot of good reasons for that, because if you candevelop relationships with big companies, they're bigger relationships financially, they tend to lastlonger and you know, they're valued overall by the investment community. So thequestion really, though, once you get in beyond the ambition, is doyou actually have the value that you can deliver? For larger companies, theirrequirements are more significant, the stakeholders and decision makers involved and, what muchmore extensive and more complex, and so you need to a you need tohave value that you can deliver and like actually be able to deliver on wheretheir gaps, where you guys had to build that value over the last twelvemonths. I would say that, like, the company decided that the biggest opportunityfor it long term was in moving...

...up market because of the landscape ofother players in the space and the opportunity to differentiate was actually larger at bigcompanies than it was at the bottom of the market, and so that waspotentially unique to just the talent acquisition landscape that greenhouses in. And so thecompany had gone on, you know, I'd say, at least a twentyfour month journey before I even arrived, to prepare the company to be ableto succeed in the enterprise. So that starts with product right. Is thedo you have the back end, front end capabilities that more complex organizations aregoing to need? Do you have a service model that can deliver based onSLA's and International Dynamics? Do you have then the selling muscle to be ableto actually, you know, have a conversation that leads to a deal withorganizations where there's a real procurement function, where there's significant politics about how decisionsget made. A lot of the stuff outside of sales was actually pretty faralong when I joined, which is a real advantage that that would allow usto accelerate. If I had come in and those elements weren't in place,no matter how you know, no matter what I would bring to bear,it kind of goes back to that question. Can you deliver for those larger companies? And you know, my impression right away was that we absolutely could, that there really was an opportunity there, and there really was. All thegroundwork have been laid and so now we needed to sort of build thesales muscle to execute against that. So when you're thinking about building that salesmuscle, what does that mean and how do you build it? Do youchange the sales process? Do you hire different people? And I'm also interestedin segmentation because there's probably some amount of inbound leads, considering how much inboundis being generated by greenhouses excellent marketing organization, we start having to create territories andSiphon them off. So what are the elements that go into upgrading ordifferentiating the sales go to market motion so that you can attack the enterprise appropriately? The first thing I did was to try to define the motion itself,where the sales process and what would be different about these opportunities and why theywould be different, and then try to get believability within the Sales Organization orthe the folks that we're focused on this area. When I join the company, the folks that were focused on enterprise had historically been in SMB or midmarket or doing all those kind of deals, and so their muscle memory was tiedtowards that faster sale cycle of like demo and clothes, and changing thatmindset, which involves a bunch of different things. It's involves getting a lotmore people involved, it involves a lot more meetings internally to prepare for likewhat that customer engagement is going to be, and so just trying to get thefolks on the sales team to digest the differences and then to embrace andbelieve themselves that this will help them win deals in this area. So I'llgive you an example. Like when I joined, I saw a couple ofexamples of logos that I very much wanted to love to have greenhouse have ascustomers who lost those deals, and I looked at the sales engagement and therewere a lot of opportunities to do things differently that we're not seized, andso the AE would treat that opportunity like any other one. So they did, you know, some phone calls and did like good discovery and probably hada really quality conversation the demo. It probably killed the demo. It musthave been amazing you like, I'm confident it was an awesome demo, butit was done over a zoom or, you know, over a Webex itwasn't done live. There were a lot of stakeholders involved in the decision processbut, you know, they was likely just following whatever the process was atthe customer level. And then the thing that got me is, like,the executive from our company. We're like often in the location of where thesecompanies were, but no effort was made to like create some executive engagement,to create some other touch points within the company so that we would demonstrate tothem as a spirit of partnership, a...

...goal to a line and and likeactually appear like we're a big company and know how to deal with the likesof those. And so it was evident to that there were basic things thatwe could do that hadn't been done before, and so it was just trying tochange the mindset of the seller in order to do that. And thenwhere other areas, like the way our FPS came in, we didn't create. You know, there wasn't necessarily a process to like, Hey, ifan our FP comes in, how we going to evaluate it? How canwe going to compare with what our plan is? Are we going to playto win or we just going to fill it out and send it? Andso, you know, it was like analyzing that whole situation and trying tofigure out where our opportunities were. Did you guys create a deal desk?We still talk about creating a deal desk. You know, this element of howyou do pricing, of how you when we bring new products to market, like what are some of the elements around how that from finance to salesto sales ups, how that all fits together? I think over time willeventually build a deal desk. But no, we did not have do you havean internal council? I hope, yes, that we do have goodand that is that is a requirem we give a yeah, I mean ifyou're getting red line and you know and you're in the middle of multipage contractnegotiations are of negotiations with a large enterprise and you're using outside council, it'sprobably not going to be a successful endeavor or fortunate to not be in thatposition. So there's those are some tactics. Does the profile of the account executivechange? And I guess to the point, considering so many, youknow, upandcomers are listening to this and probably want an opportunity to work withgreenhouse and work with you, what do you consider to be the profile ofa great account executive? Yeah, it's a great question. It's an evolvingone. Over time, I'd say I might have come in with a hypothesisof what was required in order to be successful and each of the different segmentsand through experience, continue to learn. I'll focus on enterprise and within ourspace there's a lot of e HR tech landscape. When we're thinking about theprofile of a successful enterprise account executive, you know, how do you thinkabout that and walk us through maybe some of the evolution of your thought processwhen you joined? I was balancing it when I joined. Do we needsomebody that from the space that has expertise around talent acquisition or HR tech versusa really strong enterprise seller that can learn the dynamics of the market and ourbuyer, and I still sort of try to balance those needs. I wouldsay for our company that the areas of focus have become one is being boardroom ready. Is that person. Can somebody come in and go into theBoard Room of a large company and be a credible partner to an executive ata large firm? And so we have a variety of ways that will testfor that, but I think it's a requirement. So give us one way. How do you test for Board Room Ready? Is it? DOES THEIRSUIT FIT? Did they show up to the interview Clean Shaven? So whenyou go through and you learn about somebody's experiences, just the way that theyspeak about the problems that they solved, like if you ask about you knowa great deal that they closed from beginning to end, and you dig intothat, it becomes evident, at least to me, about how they thinkabout the value that they created and if they're talking in terms of like problemssolved, of obstacles overcome, of like there was a clever thinking to howthey impacted the deal and there was an element of a champion or an executiveat the customer who you know they impacted in some way. You can overlay, you know in your mind this person or this candidate in front of anexecutive at a perspective customer we'd love to sell to, and you're making adecision like will that you know, will this person be effective? Another areais simply just asking about their experience of...

...dealing with executive have large companies andwhat are sometimes they've had to do that and how they prepared for it andyou know it was a time I went really well, and what was thetime that did? I'm thinking. So obviously to the point of if they'vehad to talk to executives before and they're board ready, there's a level ofexperience. Have you figured out what is the right level of experience that youguys need at greenhouse to be successful? Well, I mean I've become atthe point now, Sam. So if I actually step back and say,how did we even get to the point that we're at now, as wedo hiring, when I joined right away I started, you know, interviewingboth for leadership for the enterprise and for individual contributors. Part of it wasfor me to learn you know, I had a working hypothesis of what weneeded and part of it was to just sort of see what types of profiles, what we're out there and to try to figure out what would work.But the most important thing I felt like we needed to do is sort ofprove that we could be successful within selling to these customers. I've seen alot of companies that will hire a lot of what's called enterprise account executives,but they really haven't proved that they can at scale sell to these large companiesand it cost a lot of money to bring in that type of talent,cost a lot of money to train them, and so you want to be setup to succeed overall, and so I found like the first six tonine months was like laying the groundwork in order to be able to do that. And so what that meant was I feel I needed to be out inthe field. I need to be part of the team that would they couldhelp us. You know, when a really large companies and sort of,you know, Game Change The r levels that the company was used to closing. What were some of those ranges? You don't have to give us specifics, but you know, what are the ranges to say that like the dealsI was interested in. We're like well north of a hundred thousand dollar are. Our deals like the type of ones that you know, are very impactfulfor the company and historically the average deal, even an enterprise was, it wasa decent amount below that. And so, you know, it wastruly like the next step up, not quite at the million dollar are range, but you certainly a big step up from where the company previously was.And there were those opera. The opportunities to do that were in play.Now the processes, the sales execution to be able to deliver on that.We you know there was work to do in order to get there, andso I felt that before I go out and build this whole team and scale, I really felt I needed to believe that we could do it. So, like I wanted to be part and participant on the deal of closing someof these larger deals. I partnered with a couple of the account executives andI felt it was really important to be deeply involved in those sales processes.And so while, you know, interviewing potential leaders, while interviewing potential accountexecutives, like proving it that we can do this, and I so.I feel like we accomplished that. In two thousand and seventeen we closed awhole host of like really exciting and needle moving deals for the company, someamazing logos and companies that aren't necessarily the profile that is a normally associated withgreenhouse. Greenhouse is often associo like tech companies and things that nature. Youknow, we were able to close a host of a variety of industries andcompanies of real size and some that have been around a long time and stufflike that. So an example would be, like Bay Ota is a giant HomeHealthcare Company that has twenty fivezero employees. A lot of them are home healthcareworkers and they're not a tech company hiring engineering talent, but, like, they deeply care their talent focused organization and they're competing for nurses, justlike silicon valleys competing for engineers, and they're looking to differentiate and to bebetter than their competition in a world where there's a limited supply versus the demandfor that type of worker. And so to be able to like partner withan Organization of a twenty Fivezero employees in an industry that greenhouse might not normallybe associated with and then deliver that value...

...for them to be able to delivera differentiated solution that's going to help them win in their market. That buildsa lot of confidence for me and for the organization that, you know,we can start to do this at scale. So you need to have some gooddata points to then be able to make some additional investment to build outthat team. What are the data points you're looking at? You know this. The enterpresse sales cycles can be are longer. Now they don't have tobe two years, but they're probably going to be, you know, inthe six to nine, maybe twelve month range, especially for enterprise customers thatare using large, you know, ats systems that have to be ripped outof end the might be on multi year relationship. So I guess one questionI have how do you know? What are the metrics you're looking at,or what are the KPIS you're looking at, even before the deal closes to knowthat the initiative is having success? Well, okay, so at amacro level, I think one of the things that we've done that I'm I'mproud of because it was really the team that had that sort of pulled thistogether. Was We did? We took a lot of data. There area lot of companies out there. We prioritized by industry and we prioritized forlike large companies, and we so we had a big data set of potentialtargets and, to your point, there are so many out there. There'sa variety of dynamics about whether they'd be a good buyer of this type oftechnology or not, and so what we ended up doing was like coming upwith the variables that a company that would be a good fit for our solution. What would attributes with those companies have? And there's like a whole I wantwhen the deep there's a whole host of like of dynamics in a companythat would score them higher as a good fit for us. There for thinkingwith their people organizations. They've demonstrated through a variety of ways that talent islike a super important thing to their company. They've been on like best places towork or you know those types of things. They they've invested in technology, like they're not like an an equated, you know, kind of company,and a host of other measures. And then we were able to scorea large data set of companies to be able to say, like, allright, these are the priority targets for US overall. That would enable usto do things like build territories, to be able to do things like runABM campaigns against the most high value ones, to the extent we're able to getdata on like their exit, their current state of where they are intheir ats or their talent acquisition stack, using that information to prioritize as well. When you're in the position that we're in, with a lot of opportunityahead and market is not saturated with our solution, you're able to sort ofidentify a large set of customers that are either at the right timing or justhave all the attributes that would be a great fit for us. That allowsus to create some real sales and marketing muscle behind to pursue. So wedid that and then, as it relates to, you know, bringing inaccount executives, it's now managing like how do we partner with marketing around doingour ABM initiatives? What outside of those ABM initiatives, which do take alot of time to execute on effectively, what are some of your favorite ABMinitiatives? Account based marketing, for those that don't know the acronym, butwhat are some of the things that you were really excited about? Well,we redid our scoring system. We created a new kind of category called likean Mqa, which is quite different than an mql and different than the ofsome of the other ones, which is like what is the amount of interactionwith our content in our company that would make that get passed over to salesfor a specific account, and we did some things that I think are prettycool, like we're using some social media targeting and advertising, we're using somephysical gifts in certain cases, we are doing some marketing automation based nurturing,based on the interactions that the customers are doing with us. We have ourSDRs, account executives and even leadership having touch points. When a company getsto a certain point of engagement or a...

...score, we're going to then,you know, reach out in the coordinated way with some more personalized stuff ata variety of levels within the company, and so there's a lot of orchestrationthat goes into that and supportant to me that we put in the right amountof time to do that well, so we get a large enough percentage ofthose companies that we're going after to turn into opportunities then, of course,you know, a good amount of those opportunities turning into deals. So wehave some goals that we set around it. I can't say that we're they're themost scientific in the world. So maybe they're a little conservative, maybethey're too ambitious. We're going to kind of figure that out. But inaddition to those programs, there's a whole outbound cadence that will happen between ourstur team and our account executives, as we just opportunistically a new chief peopleofficer get staffed at some company, you know, a new update, thethings that happen in the news, just through research. Overall, we havea lot of inbound or fortunate to get a lot of inbound leads. Andso how does that fit into the overall kind of cadence so that our salesteam will go through? You know, there is existing pipeline and so wecan't forget that. Like there are deals that are definitely in play. Atthe timing on those was, you know, three quarters out, and so likeshame on us if we let those things die and and don't kind ofmaximize. You know that that existing pipeline so putting together the framework that allowsall of those to be successful, using each of those swim lings to helpdrive like what success looks like and to build up overall targets. I thinkthat was a fun exercise. It was like a working hypothesis, a wherewe think our business is going to come from. You know, the ABMjust general outpound through inbound and through our existing pipeline. Did you have tochange your pricing model? I'm always curious to what extent price has been anobjection. At what point how do you draw the line and how do youfigure out if hundred and fifty thousand dollars is the right amount to quote,whether it's three hundred thousand, whether it's five hundred thousand, or did youjust use your standard, you know, seat based, volume based pricing modeland applied it to a larger organization? I think the company has a reallystrong pricing model that creates leverage and creates efficiencies the larger you are as anorganization. So we're fortunate to be in a position that we have a provenpricing model that works. At the same time, when you get into negotialcreations with really large organizations, you know that part of what makes a greatseller is an ability to have a mutually beneficial negotiation with like a large organization. And so you there are factors that we are able to negotiate outside ofprice that really do matter. Marketing, joint marketing efforts, case studies used, so logo, participation in events, the actual package, like the productpackage that the customer will get. Some of the legal elements within, likethe red lines within the contract, can be a variable the service model thatthey're going to be able to get based on their needs. There are alot of elements that enable what do I need to take away? If you'regoing to want to lower the price by that level, you know there's alot of ways we can go about it. But, and it's true, wemaybe we don't have quite as many customers in that segment as we doin some of the other ones where there's a real proven market. But sofar I feel like the pricing model that we have in place has enabled aproductive negotiation to happen. And if we are focused on value for the customerand not just on like the features that greenhouse would deliver, it can becomesa lot easier because if we're building out with our customers. Like what isthe goal of this investment? What are you trying to achieve from your talentacquisition process? If you think about the amount of money that a company spendsinvesting in human capital, and if you think you can make a big impactin the speed of hiring, the quality of hiring, the proven of youremployer brand through just being good at doing that, getting the whole company focusedon recruiting and doing it well, then the value that you can create foryour business is so significant. And if you believe that we're the solution that'sgoing to get you from like how you...

...do it today to where you wantto be, then, like the pricing becomes far less of a relevant thing. So, so I think the key to doing all this stuff is toreally create this like value based selling mentality throughout your sales organization, and that'sbeen a huge goal of mine. It's probably the number one initiative that I'vein order to try to avoid with it this exact dynamic that you're talking about, like price becoming, you know, an obstacle to delivering value for customers. That's a really important way. So put in divide base selling methodology,greenhouse house walk us through that process. I mentioned it's one of your mostimportant initiatives. Our company is not a point solution. Like three or fourpeople at the company just can't go buy greenhouse and then use it on theirown and like not have the rest of the organization know about it. Thosesolutions exist and they have their own dynamics to that. But you know,greenhouse is really a part platform that's going to be used by every stakeholder inthe company that's involved in hiring, like full stop. So not just therecruiting team, but like anyone that does interviewing, people that give referrals,all the hiring managers. To really win it. Hiring, it really isa team sport and so everyone that is involved in any way is going tobe using the platform. So it's a big change for a company to beable to go do that. So if you're going to do a big change, there needs to be a real company is going to have to make acommitment in order to make it successful, so that you need to now tieto something, to a real problem that needs to be fixed for that company. Historically, if you go in and talk just about how great your productis, it's going to be very difficult because that's not going to lead toa sale. What's going to lead to a sale is like solventing a majorproblem. So I joined the company and I was impressed because of the depthof like what this application to do. Every account executive that needs to havetheir head on a swivel in order to like be able to adapt to likewhat matters to a perspective customer. So I come in, I start listeningto these customer interactions and I see how varied they are and I see howdeep some of the things within our application and with some of the workflows thatcustomers go through and care about. And within those like varied conversations I'd seethese nuggets of like greatness. Like a seller on our side would say somethingthat was so impactful I would it would just, you know, I'd kindof try to capture that in my head, but that wasn't another seller in thatsame situation might say something totally different. So there was really inconsistent conversations basedon just like the varied things that their customers care about and the sheerdepth of what like the application can do, and so it's hard to have likewhat is good look like for a seller when it can go in somany different directions. I felt like a kind all over the place. Soand another thing is like the reps get trained on the product and they getprogram to talk about how awesome the product is in like early on. Thatprobably works really well because, like, early adopters will buy the vision.But if we're going to scale into a big company, there you get beyondthose early adopters that buy into a vision and like they care about the thingsthey need to solve and not how great your company is. This all kindof lines up in my mind and I was like, how do we createstronger customer centered conversations that will have a better chance to lead to deals consistently? So it's kind of made the decision to bring in a third party anddeploy a consistent sales methodology at greenhouse. So we chose force management. I'mnot sure if folks are familiar with them, but really the primary reason I selectedthem was I did have experience in the past. But they take awinning framework almost like you know, if you want to equate it to anexercise program there's a lot of great exercise programs out there, but what reallymatters is that somebody that wants to get fit has to actually do the workand so follow the program so there's a lot of great selling methodology programs thatare out there. You know, I'm not saying this on the better thanany other one, but what I liked about the framework that force management broughtis they force you, as a company to actually, like build out thecontent that you're going to train the team...

...on. So we get the bestpeople within our company cross functionally to build all of the content that are goingto drive our customer conversations. You get all of those nuggets gathered in oneplace. Right. Those nuggets of greatness are now gathered inside of one frameworkthat would allow our sellers to bid or drive customer conversations, and so likethe projects ongoing for us, and I'm not able to quite say it's asuccess yet, although I'll feeling very optimistic about it. But the goals arelike help our account executives develop the sales skills necessary so that they can attachour solution to like big problems at a company, and I mean problems thatare big enough that get money allocated to solve them. That's a really importantpoint, because companies of all kinds of problems and not all of them getfunded. So you've got to really elevate how your solution can impact the company. And one of the things that you did, if I recall correctly,you made this a point of conversation in the interview process because this was asignificant investment for greenhouse. Yeah, I think you know, going back towhat we talked about earlier, which is this ambition to go at market anda real belief that we have the magic like we have the type of solutionthat will will drive great outcomes for customers of size. So it isn't justthe thing like Oh, we want to be there, it's like, no, we can really move the need over these companies, like we got it. And so it was like how you going to do that? And Iarticulated a vision of using a methodology that attaches to the biggest problems at companiesand creates consistency in the sales conversation so that we can actually like just notbe all over the place, we can play offense, we can drive theconversation. Are you, as the seller, better at helping the customer buy orare they better at buying your solution? And you know here green us haveover twenty five hundred customers. We are way better at helping a customerbuy our solution than they are. So like we actually have real expertise.So we drive that sales conversation. We can do it in a way thatcan actually get to an outcome and I think a lot of sellers will allowthemselves to just be led by the customer, thinking of the customer notes how toget something done, but oftentimes, as customers don't know how to buy, I don't know how like decisions get made in our company. They haveproblems, for sure, they would love their problems to be to be addressedand sometimes they have the power and influence to go make that happen. Butbigger companies, then you're going to need to attach to something really big otherthan your personal problems in order to get something funded, and so part ofthis was an attempt to more often be able to do that. And soone of the things was like, yeah, what are the business challenges that largecompanies have? A really any companies have that we are most relevant to. So if we're going to go win, we can. You know, wecan't win every deal or we can't be on every opportunity. So wereally need to be on the ones that were most relevant to a big problemand we want to have consistency in the way will position our solution to perspectivecustomers so that, like, we can have the conversation on our terms ratherthan being, you know, bounced around all over the place, as theever changing landscape of where the customers going would drive the process. So it'sconsistency in the way we talked about are the problems we solve and our solutionat a customer level, and then consistency internally on how we qualify opportunities,on how we coach our reps on deals. So those are big goals. Like, if you can do that well, it just enables the organization to justbe a hell of a lot better and more efficient, waste a lotless time. Those are all areas that as how I'll measure the success ofthis. Are we doing those things? Are we elevating to bigger problems?Are we elevating to problems that we know we're relevant to address? Are wehaving consistency in the customer conversation around those areas? Are We internally qualifying andcoaching based on a way that drives our reps to that area and do youknow, our a's dictating the terms of...

...the buyers journey rather than just likefollowing whatever process that the customer is either either has or is making up asthey go along over time. So I'm bullish, but that that is areal big project that I'm committed to US doing successfully. We're committing to yoursuccess as well, so we'll be cheering you on. We're almost at atime. One sort of last personal question you, when you think about givingadvice to some of the folks that are coming up to the ranks and youthink about an impactful moment in your career, what is one that jumps out?That's a good question. So if I think about my career, howit how it got to this point, what along the way might have acceleratedmy development or made me feel more confident to do bigger things or take onmore responsibility? I mean, Pars just be lucky, like be in agood place, always have the right mindset in the right attitude. But Ithink a point in my career that helped me the most it was my innertime. I went international and I lived in Asia for over two years andI entered what was like, by all intents and purposes, of just animpossible situation, twelve hour time zone away. So whatever time it was where Iwas, it was the same time in New York, but am insteadof PM, and so it's you can't technology, you can't escape that.We haven't figured out how to like fully decompressed time zones yet. And thenyou have a varied customer base because there's a lot of different countries in differentlanguages, the sophistication dealing internally in own organization, dealing with the customers andthose elements, it's just impossible. I was aware of what time it wasin London, New York and Hong Kong all the time. It's just embeddedin my head like whatever time it was, I thought of it in three placesat once rather than just one like I do now. Getting out ofyour comfort zone and getting into the most difficult situations possible like that experience forme was like Green Beret training for sales. And so when I came back inan elevated position looking after businesses in North America and that whole host ofproblems from individuals came at me like a tsunami. They felt so imminently manageable. I was like, Oh my God, these are these problems are so solvableand it gave me a lot of confidence. It's to be able totake on greater responsibility. So for me it was like, what was thetime in my career where I got the most out of my comfort zone?It was going to the other side of the world. For others it'll bejust the situation you can get earlier in your career that's extremely difficult, whereyou're just going to have to like adapt or die. Those will be accelerantsin your you know, competency set to succeed in your career. I thinkthat's great advice. Very last question. I know you guys are trying todouble. I'm assuming you may not be hiring a hundred people right now,but you're probably hiring. So if folks want to get in touch with you, can they and what's the best way? Do you prefer? Linkedin, twitter? Email? Linkedin is a great place. Just Rick Small and allone word our ICKSM Ol N and also rick at Greenhouse Dot ioh would loveto have people reach out rick. Thank you so much for joining. Iwill see you at future meetings of the revenue collective. Thank you very much. Sim Everybody's Sam's Corner. Another great interview, this time with my goodfriend Rick Small, and VP of sales at greenhouse. Greenhouse is going throughthis interesting transformation where they started off as a mid market business and they're movingup into the enterprise. That's something that a lot of companies talk about doing. It's much harder than it appears. One of the things that you're goingto have to Redo is your entire so a process, and the sales processat the enterprise level is much more complicated than folks, I think, appreciate, based on my experience, because the entire act of discovery is going totake place through multiple stakeholders and multiple decision makers, and one of the tacticsthat you might want to use is to map out the deal in much greaterdetail than you would for amid market deal. Identify all of the key stakeholders.First, identify what is their power influence within the organization and make surethat you're speaking to people and Working People...

...as champions that are above the powerline. The second thing you might want to do is score their preference anddisposition to your solution on a scale from negative fifty deposit of fifty and candidly, I'm stealing this from my friend Dave Go van, but what you dois you try to understand who are the people that are influenceable, that is, people that are between negative twenty to positive twenty, the people that maybethey lean negative or neutral to your solution, but you can persuade them, youcan change their mind, and those the people that you focus on,particularly when those people can actually do something about the deal. Think one ofthe things that I've seen in my enterprise sales career is that the reps,naturally, you naturally will want to spend time with people that want to spendtime with you. Those might be the project management team on the other sideof the negotiation, but you're often spending time with people that really don't havevery much influence or power, and so it's really important that, yes,you want to cultivate those re lationships because they can be supporters throughout the salesprocess, but make sure you're spending time above the power line with people thathave power and then look for people that are neutral to slightly skeptical that youcan influence, possibly through your champion or through your own sales skills. Sothose are some of my thoughts. Moving up market into the enterprise is anexciting challenge. I personally love selling to the enterprise, but there are differentstrategies and tactics that you're going to need to employ. So this has beenSam's corner and thanks for listening. To check out the show notes, seeupcoming guests and play more episodes from our incredible lineup of sales leaders, visitsales hackercom podcast. You can also find the sales hacking podcast on itunes orGoogle play. If you enjoyed this episode, please give us a share on linkedin, twitter or any other social media platform. And finally, specialthanks again to this month's sponsor, at node. See more at Info dotnodedot IO. Forward sales hacker. Finally, if you want to get in touchwith me, find me on twitter at Sam f Jacobs or on Linkedinat Linkedincom, slash in slash Sam f Jacobs. I'll see you next time.

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