The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 4 years ago

5. Moving Your Product (And Your Sales Team) Upmarket w/ Rick Smolen

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

On this episode of the Sales Hacker podcast, we talk with Rick Smolen, VP of Sales at Greenhouse about moving your product upmarket and how to sell your software to a big company. 

One, two, one, three, three. Hi everyone and welcome to the sales hacker podcast. I'm your host, Sam Jacobs, founder of the New York revenue collective. Before we start, a quick thank you to this month's sales hacker podcast sponsor node. NODES AI discovery platform can understand the meaning, context and connection between any person or company by proactively surfacing opportunities that are highly relevant and personalized in real time. Note is creating an entirely New Paradigm for sales and marketing professionals to grow pipeline and accelerate revenue velocity. Visit Info dotnode dot ioh for Wich sales hacker to learn more. And now on with the show. Welcome to the sales hacker podcast. I'm Sam Jacobs. Today we've got a good friend of mine, Rick Smolan. Rick is currently VPS sales at greenhouse. Prior to greenhouse, he spent twelve and a half years at introlinks, where he began his sales career. During his time at introlinks he started as an introvidual contributor. He had three years as a frontline manager. He spent two years building out the go to market in Hong Kong and the last four managing the revenue generating business lines across North America and he joined greenhouse just under a year ago. Is that writer? That is thanks, Sam. Welcome. Yeah, thank you for having me. We're excited to have you. So really quick we want to go over what we call your baseball card stats. Your name. Your name is Rick Small. It isn't your title. I'm the VP of sales at greenhouse software. And how big is greenhouse? Greenhouse is now over thirty million Arr and has a lot of ambition to grow more. And I think everybody I know knows what greenhouse is and does. But if you had to describe the business, just give us the General Business Pitch, the elevator bitch toss. What greenhouse does? Greenhouse is a software company, software as a service that's focused on talent acquisition. We are relevant to companies that have challenges and sort of for key areas. One, sourcing and identifying and tracting like quality talent to their organization, to the actual process of how they make hiring decisions, between the recruiting team, interviewers, hiring managers and the process that candidates go through. Three would be the experience for candidates and hiring managers and new hires, and for would be like the ability to measure their process and do more of what's working and less of what is okay, got it. So you've been there just under a year. How big is your organization? We have about sixty professionals on the sales team across the steer organization, our account executives and sales operations. That's impressive. So big team. You know where I wanted to start, and one of the reasons we said the fact that your friend of mine and a member of the estimable New York revenue collective. Besides all of that, I thought your story is really interesting because you spent almost thirteen years at what most of us would consider a big company. I don't know if it still is, but I know at one point in Trinks is public. Is it's still public? I know no longer is. It's right, I have a company. So they went private. But you know, a big company. Well, I think in the neighborhood of somewhere between hundred and fifty and two hundred million in revenue. You started off as an individual contributor. So I'm just curious and I think it might be interesting for those listening as you're thinking about making a switch from a big company to a small company. What were the factors that led to that decision? When I joined intro links, it was a small company and, like place in my career, when I joined I wasn't really thinking about big company or small company. I just wanted to have a big impact, learn do well and as I grew through my career at intro links and looked back on like what just happened over the las a dozen years, the excitement of going from a small company into a big one, the journey that that was. I learned so much and I got so much out of it I wanted to repeat that type of journey if possible and start from a more elevated position where I can have an even bigger impact. So...

I was very intent to join a company that had this sort of stat line of greenhouse. How did you find greenhouse, or did they find you? I had started to look for positions. I was speaking to recruiters and somebody that had sold me software in the past reached out to me and said I had built somewhat of a relationship with this account executive and he had tried to get me to join his company and during that interview process he left that company and said you shouldn't join this company, but I want to introduce you to the head of sales operations at greenhouse. They're an amazing company and they have a role for VP of sales and there are an awesome New York based company and like, why don't you just go and have a conversation? So I met the sales operations lead. As I learned and dig more into the opportunity in the company, I was really excited about what I saw and then I got into the interview process and was fortunate enough to be selected for the position. Well, congratulations. I think it's a very strong endorsement when someone is recruiting you to be their boss essentially, which it sounds like this unnamed account executive was doing. So congratulations. I'm making a good impact. When you know you mentioned over thirty million. Tell us, you know, just in terms of we're always interested in learning about go to market for us and B versus mid market versus enterprise. I'm curious sort of the state of the company because it's been growing rapidly for a little while previously under the leadership of a mutual friend, Mark Jacobs, but you inherited you know, give us a little bit of the dynamic between us and be mid market and our price, and then where your growth prospects lie and your opinion. Yeah, it's a good question. When I joined the company I think it was really well orchestrated to do smb and to do mid market. Well, the reason is the all the sales processes, all the sales tech, was centered around high velocity selling, like large number of transactions and creating efficiencies for getting opportunities from SDRs over to account executives, getting some discovery done, getting the demo completed and closing the deal and moving on to the next one. The organization was very good at at that and there was a lot of ambition at the company to go up market, towards the enterprise, and what I think everyone was finding is that the sales process for that was very different and there was some struggle to sort of deal with those dynamics where you don't want to lose the momentum and success that you're having in the other segments, but what do you have to do on top of that to be successful selling to larger companies? That was became to me like the one of the main areas where I felt I could make an impact, which is like, don't mess up the things that are going really well and help build some new supplementary processes in order for us to do to have some success up market. So that was a one of the glaring sort of opportunities that existed when I joined. What are the elements that are required? First, to evaluate whether it even makes sense to go up market. Everybody talks about going up market. Is it appropriate for every company? I now, through the networking and people have met through you, Sam, I hear all the time that companies want to move up market, that that is their ambition, and I think there's a lot of good reasons for that, because if you can develop relationships with big companies, they're bigger relationships financially, they tend to last longer and you know, they're valued overall by the investment community. So the question really, though, once you get in beyond the ambition, is do you actually have the value that you can deliver? For larger companies, their requirements are more significant, the stakeholders and decision makers involved and, what much more extensive and more complex, and so you need to a you need to have value that you can deliver and like actually be able to deliver on where their gaps, where you guys had to build that value over the last twelve months. I would say that, like, the company decided that the biggest opportunity for it long term was in moving...

...up market because of the landscape of other players in the space and the opportunity to differentiate was actually larger at big companies than it was at the bottom of the market, and so that was potentially unique to just the talent acquisition landscape that greenhouses in. And so the company had gone on, you know, I'd say, at least a twenty four month journey before I even arrived, to prepare the company to be able to succeed in the enterprise. So that starts with product right. Is the do you have the back end, front end capabilities that more complex organizations are going to need? Do you have a service model that can deliver based on SLA's and International Dynamics? Do you have then the selling muscle to be able to actually, you know, have a conversation that leads to a deal with organizations where there's a real procurement function, where there's significant politics about how decisions get made. A lot of the stuff outside of sales was actually pretty far along when I joined, which is a real advantage that that would allow us to accelerate. If I had come in and those elements weren't in place, no matter how you know, no matter what I would bring to bear, it kind of goes back to that question. Can you deliver for those larger companies? And you know, my impression right away was that we absolutely could, that there really was an opportunity there, and there really was. All the groundwork have been laid and so now we needed to sort of build the sales muscle to execute against that. So when you're thinking about building that sales muscle, what does that mean and how do you build it? Do you change the sales process? Do you hire different people? And I'm also interested in segmentation because there's probably some amount of inbound leads, considering how much inbound is being generated by greenhouses excellent marketing organization, we start having to create territories and Siphon them off. So what are the elements that go into upgrading or differentiating the sales go to market motion so that you can attack the enterprise appropriately? The first thing I did was to try to define the motion itself, where the sales process and what would be different about these opportunities and why they would be different, and then try to get believability within the Sales Organization or the the folks that we're focused on this area. When I join the company, the folks that were focused on enterprise had historically been in SMB or mid market or doing all those kind of deals, and so their muscle memory was tied towards that faster sale cycle of like demo and clothes, and changing that mindset, which involves a bunch of different things. It's involves getting a lot more people involved, it involves a lot more meetings internally to prepare for like what that customer engagement is going to be, and so just trying to get the folks on the sales team to digest the differences and then to embrace and believe themselves that this will help them win deals in this area. So I'll give you an example. Like when I joined, I saw a couple of examples of logos that I very much wanted to love to have greenhouse have as customers who lost those deals, and I looked at the sales engagement and there were a lot of opportunities to do things differently that we're not seized, and so the AE would treat that opportunity like any other one. So they did, you know, some phone calls and did like good discovery and probably had a really quality conversation the demo. It probably killed the demo. It must have been amazing you like, I'm confident it was an awesome demo, but it was done over a zoom or, you know, over a Webex it wasn't done live. There were a lot of stakeholders involved in the decision process but, you know, they was likely just following whatever the process was at the customer level. And then the thing that got me is, like, the executive from our company. We're like often in the location of where these companies were, but no effort was made to like create some executive engagement, to create some other touch points within the company so that we would demonstrate to them as a spirit of partnership, a...

...goal to a line and and like actually appear like we're a big company and know how to deal with the likes of those. And so it was evident to that there were basic things that we could do that hadn't been done before, and so it was just trying to change the mindset of the seller in order to do that. And then where other areas, like the way our FPS came in, we didn't create. You know, there wasn't necessarily a process to like, Hey, if an our FP comes in, how we going to evaluate it? How can we going to compare with what our plan is? Are we going to play to win or we just going to fill it out and send it? And so, you know, it was like analyzing that whole situation and trying to figure out where our opportunities were. Did you guys create a deal desk? We still talk about creating a deal desk. You know, this element of how you do pricing, of how you when we bring new products to market, like what are some of the elements around how that from finance to sales to sales ups, how that all fits together? I think over time will eventually build a deal desk. But no, we did not have do you have an internal council? I hope, yes, that we do have good and that is that is a requirem we give a yeah, I mean if you're getting red line and you know and you're in the middle of multipage contract negotiations are of negotiations with a large enterprise and you're using outside council, it's probably not going to be a successful endeavor or fortunate to not be in that position. So there's those are some tactics. Does the profile of the account executive change? And I guess to the point, considering so many, you know, upandcomers are listening to this and probably want an opportunity to work with greenhouse and work with you, what do you consider to be the profile of a great account executive? Yeah, it's a great question. It's an evolving one. Over time, I'd say I might have come in with a hypothesis of what was required in order to be successful and each of the different segments and through experience, continue to learn. I'll focus on enterprise and within our space there's a lot of e HR tech landscape. When we're thinking about the profile of a successful enterprise account executive, you know, how do you think about that and walk us through maybe some of the evolution of your thought process when you joined? I was balancing it when I joined. Do we need somebody that from the space that has expertise around talent acquisition or HR tech versus a really strong enterprise seller that can learn the dynamics of the market and our buyer, and I still sort of try to balance those needs. I would say for our company that the areas of focus have become one is being board room ready. Is that person. Can somebody come in and go into the Board Room of a large company and be a credible partner to an executive at a large firm? And so we have a variety of ways that will test for that, but I think it's a requirement. So give us one way. How do you test for Board Room Ready? Is it? DOES THEIR SUIT FIT? Did they show up to the interview Clean Shaven? So when you go through and you learn about somebody's experiences, just the way that they speak about the problems that they solved, like if you ask about you know a great deal that they closed from beginning to end, and you dig into that, it becomes evident, at least to me, about how they think about the value that they created and if they're talking in terms of like problems solved, of obstacles overcome, of like there was a clever thinking to how they impacted the deal and there was an element of a champion or an executive at the customer who you know they impacted in some way. You can overlay, you know in your mind this person or this candidate in front of an executive at a perspective customer we'd love to sell to, and you're making a decision like will that you know, will this person be effective? Another area is simply just asking about their experience of...

...dealing with executive have large companies and what are sometimes they've had to do that and how they prepared for it and you know it was a time I went really well, and what was the time that did? I'm thinking. So obviously to the point of if they've had to talk to executives before and they're board ready, there's a level of experience. Have you figured out what is the right level of experience that you guys need at greenhouse to be successful? Well, I mean I've become at the point now, Sam. So if I actually step back and say, how did we even get to the point that we're at now, as we do hiring, when I joined right away I started, you know, interviewing both for leadership for the enterprise and for individual contributors. Part of it was for me to learn you know, I had a working hypothesis of what we needed and part of it was to just sort of see what types of profiles, what we're out there and to try to figure out what would work. But the most important thing I felt like we needed to do is sort of prove that we could be successful within selling to these customers. I've seen a lot of companies that will hire a lot of what's called enterprise account executives, but they really haven't proved that they can at scale sell to these large companies and it cost a lot of money to bring in that type of talent, cost a lot of money to train them, and so you want to be set up to succeed overall, and so I found like the first six to nine months was like laying the groundwork in order to be able to do that. And so what that meant was I feel I needed to be out in the field. I need to be part of the team that would they could help us. You know, when a really large companies and sort of, you know, Game Change The r levels that the company was used to closing. What were some of those ranges? You don't have to give us specifics, but you know, what are the ranges to say that like the deals I was interested in. We're like well north of a hundred thousand dollar are. Our deals like the type of ones that you know, are very impactful for the company and historically the average deal, even an enterprise was, it was a decent amount below that. And so, you know, it was truly like the next step up, not quite at the million dollar are range, but you certainly a big step up from where the company previously was. And there were those opera. The opportunities to do that were in play. Now the processes, the sales execution to be able to deliver on that. We you know there was work to do in order to get there, and so I felt that before I go out and build this whole team and scale, I really felt I needed to believe that we could do it. So, like I wanted to be part and participant on the deal of closing some of these larger deals. I partnered with a couple of the account executives and I felt it was really important to be deeply involved in those sales processes. And so while, you know, interviewing potential leaders, while interviewing potential account executives, like proving it that we can do this, and I so. I feel like we accomplished that. In two thousand and seventeen we closed a whole host of like really exciting and needle moving deals for the company, some amazing logos and companies that aren't necessarily the profile that is a normally associated with greenhouse. Greenhouse is often associo like tech companies and things that nature. You know, we were able to close a host of a variety of industries and companies of real size and some that have been around a long time and stuff like that. So an example would be, like Bay Ota is a giant Home Healthcare Company that has twenty fivezero employees. A lot of them are home healthcare workers and they're not a tech company hiring engineering talent, but, like, they deeply care their talent focused organization and they're competing for nurses, just like silicon valleys competing for engineers, and they're looking to differentiate and to be better than their competition in a world where there's a limited supply versus the demand for that type of worker. And so to be able to like partner with an Organization of a twenty Fivezero employees in an industry that greenhouse might not normally be associated with and then deliver that value...

...for them to be able to deliver a differentiated solution that's going to help them win in their market. That builds a lot of confidence for me and for the organization that, you know, we can start to do this at scale. So you need to have some good data points to then be able to make some additional investment to build out that team. What are the data points you're looking at? You know this. The enterpresse sales cycles can be are longer. Now they don't have to be two years, but they're probably going to be, you know, in the six to nine, maybe twelve month range, especially for enterprise customers that are using large, you know, ats systems that have to be ripped out of end the might be on multi year relationship. So I guess one question I have how do you know? What are the metrics you're looking at, or what are the KPIS you're looking at, even before the deal closes to know that the initiative is having success? Well, okay, so at a macro level, I think one of the things that we've done that I'm I'm proud of because it was really the team that had that sort of pulled this together. Was We did? We took a lot of data. There are a lot of companies out there. We prioritized by industry and we prioritized for like large companies, and we so we had a big data set of potential targets and, to your point, there are so many out there. There's a variety of dynamics about whether they'd be a good buyer of this type of technology or not, and so what we ended up doing was like coming up with the variables that a company that would be a good fit for our solution. What would attributes with those companies have? And there's like a whole I want when the deep there's a whole host of like of dynamics in a company that would score them higher as a good fit for us. There for thinking with their people organizations. They've demonstrated through a variety of ways that talent is like a super important thing to their company. They've been on like best places to work or you know those types of things. They they've invested in technology, like they're not like an an equated, you know, kind of company, and a host of other measures. And then we were able to score a large data set of companies to be able to say, like, all right, these are the priority targets for US overall. That would enable us to do things like build territories, to be able to do things like run ABM campaigns against the most high value ones, to the extent we're able to get data on like their exit, their current state of where they are in their ats or their talent acquisition stack, using that information to prioritize as well. When you're in the position that we're in, with a lot of opportunity ahead and market is not saturated with our solution, you're able to sort of identify a large set of customers that are either at the right timing or just have all the attributes that would be a great fit for us. That allows us to create some real sales and marketing muscle behind to pursue. So we did that and then, as it relates to, you know, bringing in account executives, it's now managing like how do we partner with marketing around doing our ABM initiatives? What outside of those ABM initiatives, which do take a lot of time to execute on effectively, what are some of your favorite ABM initiatives? Account based marketing, for those that don't know the acronym, but what are some of the things that you were really excited about? Well, we redid our scoring system. We created a new kind of category called like an Mqa, which is quite different than an mql and different than the of some of the other ones, which is like what is the amount of interaction with our content in our company that would make that get passed over to sales for a specific account, and we did some things that I think are pretty cool, like we're using some social media targeting and advertising, we're using some physical gifts in certain cases, we are doing some marketing automation based nurturing, based on the interactions that the customers are doing with us. We have our SDRs, account executives and even leadership having touch points. When a company gets to a certain point of engagement or a...

...score, we're going to then, you know, reach out in the coordinated way with some more personalized stuff at a variety of levels within the company, and so there's a lot of orchestration that goes into that and supportant to me that we put in the right amount of time to do that well, so we get a large enough percentage of those companies that we're going after to turn into opportunities then, of course, you know, a good amount of those opportunities turning into deals. So we have some goals that we set around it. I can't say that we're they're the most scientific in the world. So maybe they're a little conservative, maybe they're too ambitious. We're going to kind of figure that out. But in addition to those programs, there's a whole outbound cadence that will happen between our stur team and our account executives, as we just opportunistically a new chief people officer get staffed at some company, you know, a new update, the things that happen in the news, just through research. Overall, we have a lot of inbound or fortunate to get a lot of inbound leads. And so how does that fit into the overall kind of cadence so that our sales team will go through? You know, there is existing pipeline and so we can't forget that. Like there are deals that are definitely in play. At the timing on those was, you know, three quarters out, and so like shame on us if we let those things die and and don't kind of maximize. You know that that existing pipeline so putting together the framework that allows all of those to be successful, using each of those swim lings to help drive like what success looks like and to build up overall targets. I think that was a fun exercise. It was like a working hypothesis, a where we think our business is going to come from. You know, the ABM just general outpound through inbound and through our existing pipeline. Did you have to change your pricing model? I'm always curious to what extent price has been an objection. At what point how do you draw the line and how do you figure out if hundred and fifty thousand dollars is the right amount to quote, whether it's three hundred thousand, whether it's five hundred thousand, or did you just use your standard, you know, seat based, volume based pricing model and applied it to a larger organization? I think the company has a really strong pricing model that creates leverage and creates efficiencies the larger you are as an organization. So we're fortunate to be in a position that we have a proven pricing model that works. At the same time, when you get into negotial creations with really large organizations, you know that part of what makes a great seller is an ability to have a mutually beneficial negotiation with like a large organization. And so you there are factors that we are able to negotiate outside of price that really do matter. Marketing, joint marketing efforts, case studies used, so logo, participation in events, the actual package, like the product package that the customer will get. Some of the legal elements within, like the red lines within the contract, can be a variable the service model that they're going to be able to get based on their needs. There are a lot of elements that enable what do I need to take away? If you're going to want to lower the price by that level, you know there's a lot of ways we can go about it. But, and it's true, we maybe we don't have quite as many customers in that segment as we do in some of the other ones where there's a real proven market. But so far I feel like the pricing model that we have in place has enabled a productive negotiation to happen. And if we are focused on value for the customer and not just on like the features that greenhouse would deliver, it can becomes a lot easier because if we're building out with our customers. Like what is the goal of this investment? What are you trying to achieve from your talent acquisition process? If you think about the amount of money that a company spends investing in human capital, and if you think you can make a big impact in the speed of hiring, the quality of hiring, the proven of your employer brand through just being good at doing that, getting the whole company focused on recruiting and doing it well, then the value that you can create for your business is so significant. And if you believe that we're the solution that's going to get you from like how you...

...do it today to where you want to be, then, like the pricing becomes far less of a relevant thing. So, so I think the key to doing all this stuff is to really create this like value based selling mentality throughout your sales organization, and that's been a huge goal of mine. It's probably the number one initiative that I've in order to try to avoid with it this exact dynamic that you're talking about, like price becoming, you know, an obstacle to delivering value for customers. That's a really important way. So put in divide base selling methodology, greenhouse house walk us through that process. I mentioned it's one of your most important initiatives. Our company is not a point solution. Like three or four people at the company just can't go buy greenhouse and then use it on their own and like not have the rest of the organization know about it. Those solutions exist and they have their own dynamics to that. But you know, greenhouse is really a part platform that's going to be used by every stakeholder in the company that's involved in hiring, like full stop. So not just the recruiting team, but like anyone that does interviewing, people that give referrals, all the hiring managers. To really win it. Hiring, it really is a team sport and so everyone that is involved in any way is going to be using the platform. So it's a big change for a company to be able to go do that. So if you're going to do a big change, there needs to be a real company is going to have to make a commitment in order to make it successful, so that you need to now tie to something, to a real problem that needs to be fixed for that company. Historically, if you go in and talk just about how great your product is, it's going to be very difficult because that's not going to lead to a sale. What's going to lead to a sale is like solventing a major problem. So I joined the company and I was impressed because of the depth of like what this application to do. Every account executive that needs to have their head on a swivel in order to like be able to adapt to like what matters to a perspective customer. So I come in, I start listening to these customer interactions and I see how varied they are and I see how deep some of the things within our application and with some of the workflows that customers go through and care about. And within those like varied conversations I'd see these nuggets of like greatness. Like a seller on our side would say something that was so impactful I would it would just, you know, I'd kind of try to capture that in my head, but that wasn't another seller in that same situation might say something totally different. So there was really inconsistent conversations based on just like the varied things that their customers care about and the sheer depth of what like the application can do, and so it's hard to have like what is good look like for a seller when it can go in so many different directions. I felt like a kind all over the place. So and another thing is like the reps get trained on the product and they get program to talk about how awesome the product is in like early on. That probably works really well because, like, early adopters will buy the vision. But if we're going to scale into a big company, there you get beyond those early adopters that buy into a vision and like they care about the things they need to solve and not how great your company is. This all kind of lines up in my mind and I was like, how do we create stronger customer centered conversations that will have a better chance to lead to deals consistently? So it's kind of made the decision to bring in a third party and deploy a consistent sales methodology at greenhouse. So we chose force management. I'm not sure if folks are familiar with them, but really the primary reason I selected them was I did have experience in the past. But they take a winning framework almost like you know, if you want to equate it to an exercise program there's a lot of great exercise programs out there, but what really matters is that somebody that wants to get fit has to actually do the work and so follow the program so there's a lot of great selling methodology programs that are out there. You know, I'm not saying this on the better than any other one, but what I liked about the framework that force management brought is they force you, as a company to actually, like build out the content that you're going to train the team...

...on. So we get the best people within our company cross functionally to build all of the content that are going to drive our customer conversations. You get all of those nuggets gathered in one place. Right. Those nuggets of greatness are now gathered inside of one framework that would allow our sellers to bid or drive customer conversations, and so like the projects ongoing for us, and I'm not able to quite say it's a success yet, although I'll feeling very optimistic about it. But the goals are like help our account executives develop the sales skills necessary so that they can attach our solution to like big problems at a company, and I mean problems that are big enough that get money allocated to solve them. That's a really important point, because companies of all kinds of problems and not all of them get funded. So you've got to really elevate how your solution can impact the company. And one of the things that you did, if I recall correctly, you made this a point of conversation in the interview process because this was a significant investment for greenhouse. Yeah, I think you know, going back to what we talked about earlier, which is this ambition to go at market and a real belief that we have the magic like we have the type of solution that will will drive great outcomes for customers of size. So it isn't just the thing like Oh, we want to be there, it's like, no, we can really move the need over these companies, like we got it. And so it was like how you going to do that? And I articulated a vision of using a methodology that attaches to the biggest problems at companies and creates consistency in the sales conversation so that we can actually like just not be all over the place, we can play offense, we can drive the conversation. Are you, as the seller, better at helping the customer buy or are they better at buying your solution? And you know here green us have over twenty five hundred customers. We are way better at helping a customer buy our solution than they are. So like we actually have real expertise. So we drive that sales conversation. We can do it in a way that can actually get to an outcome and I think a lot of sellers will allow themselves to just be led by the customer, thinking of the customer notes how to get something done, but oftentimes, as customers don't know how to buy, I don't know how like decisions get made in our company. They have problems, for sure, they would love their problems to be to be addressed and sometimes they have the power and influence to go make that happen. But bigger companies, then you're going to need to attach to something really big other than your personal problems in order to get something funded, and so part of this was an attempt to more often be able to do that. And so one of the things was like, yeah, what are the business challenges that large companies have? A really any companies have that we are most relevant to. So if we're going to go win, we can. You know, we can't win every deal or we can't be on every opportunity. So we really need to be on the ones that were most relevant to a big problem and we want to have consistency in the way will position our solution to perspective customers so that, like, we can have the conversation on our terms rather than being, you know, bounced around all over the place, as the ever changing landscape of where the customers going would drive the process. So it's consistency in the way we talked about are the problems we solve and our solution at a customer level, and then consistency internally on how we qualify opportunities, on how we coach our reps on deals. So those are big goals. Like, if you can do that well, it just enables the organization to just be a hell of a lot better and more efficient, waste a lot less time. Those are all areas that as how I'll measure the success of this. Are we doing those things? Are we elevating to bigger problems? Are we elevating to problems that we know we're relevant to address? Are we having consistency in the customer conversation around those areas? Are We internally qualifying and coaching based on a way that drives our reps to that area and do you know, our a's dictating the terms of...

...the buyers journey rather than just like following whatever process that the customer is either either has or is making up as they go along over time. So I'm bullish, but that that is a real big project that I'm committed to US doing successfully. We're committing to your success as well, so we'll be cheering you on. We're almost at a time. One sort of last personal question you, when you think about giving advice to some of the folks that are coming up to the ranks and you think about an impactful moment in your career, what is one that jumps out? That's a good question. So if I think about my career, how it how it got to this point, what along the way might have accelerated my development or made me feel more confident to do bigger things or take on more responsibility? I mean, Pars just be lucky, like be in a good place, always have the right mindset in the right attitude. But I think a point in my career that helped me the most it was my inner time. I went international and I lived in Asia for over two years and I entered what was like, by all intents and purposes, of just an impossible situation, twelve hour time zone away. So whatever time it was where I was, it was the same time in New York, but am instead of PM, and so it's you can't technology, you can't escape that. We haven't figured out how to like fully decompressed time zones yet. And then you have a varied customer base because there's a lot of different countries in different languages, the sophistication dealing internally in own organization, dealing with the customers and those elements, it's just impossible. I was aware of what time it was in London, New York and Hong Kong all the time. It's just embedded in my head like whatever time it was, I thought of it in three places at once rather than just one like I do now. Getting out of your comfort zone and getting into the most difficult situations possible like that experience for me was like Green Beret training for sales. And so when I came back in an elevated position looking after businesses in North America and that whole host of problems from individuals came at me like a tsunami. They felt so imminently manageable. I was like, Oh my God, these are these problems are so solvable and it gave me a lot of confidence. It's to be able to take on greater responsibility. So for me it was like, what was the time in my career where I got the most out of my comfort zone? It was going to the other side of the world. For others it'll be just the situation you can get earlier in your career that's extremely difficult, where you're just going to have to like adapt or die. Those will be accelerants in your you know, competency set to succeed in your career. I think that's great advice. Very last question. I know you guys are trying to double. I'm assuming you may not be hiring a hundred people right now, but you're probably hiring. So if folks want to get in touch with you, can they and what's the best way? Do you prefer? Linkedin, twitter? Email? Linkedin is a great place. Just Rick Small and all one word our ICKSM Ol N and also rick at Greenhouse Dot ioh would love to have people reach out rick. Thank you so much for joining. I will see you at future meetings of the revenue collective. Thank you very much. Sim Everybody's Sam's Corner. Another great interview, this time with my good friend Rick Small, and VP of sales at greenhouse. Greenhouse is going through this interesting transformation where they started off as a mid market business and they're moving up into the enterprise. That's something that a lot of companies talk about doing. It's much harder than it appears. One of the things that you're going to have to Redo is your entire so a process, and the sales process at the enterprise level is much more complicated than folks, I think, appreciate, based on my experience, because the entire act of discovery is going to take place through multiple stakeholders and multiple decision makers, and one of the tactics that you might want to use is to map out the deal in much greater detail than you would for amid market deal. Identify all of the key stakeholders. First, identify what is their power influence within the organization and make sure that you're speaking to people and Working People...

...as champions that are above the power line. The second thing you might want to do is score their preference and disposition to your solution on a scale from negative fifty deposit of fifty and candidly, I'm stealing this from my friend Dave Go van, but what you do is you try to understand who are the people that are influenceable, that is, people that are between negative twenty to positive twenty, the people that maybe they lean negative or neutral to your solution, but you can persuade them, you can change their mind, and those the people that you focus on, particularly when those people can actually do something about the deal. Think one of the things that I've seen in my enterprise sales career is that the reps, naturally, you naturally will want to spend time with people that want to spend time with you. Those might be the project management team on the other side of the negotiation, but you're often spending time with people that really don't have very much influence or power, and so it's really important that, yes, you want to cultivate those re lationships because they can be supporters throughout the sales process, but make sure you're spending time above the power line with people that have power and then look for people that are neutral to slightly skeptical that you can influence, possibly through your champion or through your own sales skills. So those are some of my thoughts. Moving up market into the enterprise is an exciting challenge. I personally love selling to the enterprise, but there are different strategies and tactics that you're going to need to employ. So this has been Sam's corner and thanks for listening. To check out the show notes, see upcoming guests and play more episodes from our incredible lineup of sales leaders, visit sales hackercom podcast. You can also find the sales hacking podcast on itunes or Google play. If you enjoyed this episode, please give us a share on linked in, twitter or any other social media platform. And finally, special thanks again to this month's sponsor, at node. See more at Info dotnode dot IO. Forward sales hacker. Finally, if you want to get in touch with me, find me on twitter at Sam f Jacobs or on Linkedin at Linkedincom, slash in slash Sam f Jacobs. I'll see you next time.

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