The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

56. Drafting an Event Strategy That Works w/ Alon Waks

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This week on the Sales Hacker podcast, we speak with Alon Waks, VP of Marketing at Bizzabo. Bizzabo is the leading event management system company. We talk with Alon about drafting an event strategy that works. He discusses how companies can increase their audience and use ABM as a team sport.

One, two, one, three, three. Hey everybody, it's Sam Jacobs. Welcome to the SALESACER podcast. We've got a great show today. We've got a loan walks on the show. He's the VP of marketing for Bisabou and he's going to talk to us all about accountpace marketing and how ABM is a team sport, how you do it, how you drive alignment, what the tools you need are and how to make it effective and positive. Roy. So it's going to be a great conversation. ABM is the Buzzword of the day and everybody wants to know about it. Now, before we do that, we want to thank our sponsors. Our first sponsor a show pad. Show pad it's a leading sales enablement platform for the modern cellar. They are the industries only unified sales enablement platform combining sales content, training, coaching and conversation. So show pad is essentially a one stop shop for your sales team to prep and deliver the best buying experiences for your client. They work with an incredible amount of integrated partners and systems such as sales force, Microsoft Dynamics, outreach, Marquetto the Google Suite Outlook, etc. So figure out if you if you need some kind of integrated solution. If you do to train and deliver the right information at the right time to your sales team, you need show pad. It's show padcom forward salesacker. To learn more, showpadcom forwards salesacer. Second sponsors outreach, the leading sales engagement platform. Outreach support sales reps by enabling them to humanize communication at scale, from automating the soul sucking manual work that eats up selling time to providing action oriented tips on what communications are working best. Outreach as your back and, of course, one last plug for revenue collective. It's the organization that I run when I'm not hosting the PODCAST. We're now in seven cities. We just launched Indianapolis, so we're in New York, London, Boston, Toronto, Denver, Amsterdam and Indianapolis. We're going to be opening Los Angeles pretty soon and then hopefully San Francisco. But if you're interested, if you are a VP level or above commercial operator and you want to learn more about revenue collective, just get in touch with me at Linkedin. It's linkedincom forward, slash in and then forward. Sam F Jacobs now without further ado, let's listen to this week show and my interview with alone walks. Hey, everybody, it's Sam Jacobs. Welcome to the salesaccer podcast. I am so excited to have a good friend and one of the great marketers in New York City, alone walks, on the show today. Alone is the VP of marketing at Bisabo, which is an event management system and, candidly, the event management system that revenue collective my company just signed up to use and to manage all of our events. So we're very excited to have a loan on the show. Alone. Welcome to the show. Hey, so I'm so happy to be here, excited. We're excited to have you. We're going to talk today about Account Bass Marketing, we're going to talk about marketing strategies and we're going to have a great conversation. But before we do that, for those folks out there in the universe that don't know who alone walks is, we want to learn a little bit more about you. So tell us what Bisabo is from your perspective. Wonderful, visible is a modern twist to how events in life, person, activities we in person can enable you to really focus and the linet to your business goals, meaning there's a lot of event related software and tools and processes, but the all focus on managing the event and all the tough things that are there and that is minimal. That is the one, one, the basics that you need visible. was created to come up with what is called an event success platform that looks at the entity of the Tende, the account, the company, and enables you to look at everything around the intelligence, the data around it, so that you can ensure that the journey of every person around one event, multiple event, multiple tracks at an event right a gender, is cater to the person's need and this enables not just the event manager, who's a wonderful persona and our heroes today, but everybody like myself, leads, heads of marketing, C rose to cater and draft and event strategy that in evers you to focus on different audiences at different times. I'm sure will get more into us. Okay, this sounds...

...fascinating. The company is based in The York, is that right, or somewhere else? The company is headquartered in New York and has quite a few people back in the Tel Aviv area where it was founded. Okay, and is it. Am I correct? It's about a hundred and fifteen people. Is that accurate? Yeah, yeah, we over a hundred people now, but a hundred twenty soon. We have most of our people from the Gott a market side here in New York City and around the US and most of the technology powerhouse back in the Israel headquarters. And Israel's indeed a technology powerhouse, as you and I both know. So tell us a little bit more. We have a for those that don't hear the the accent. It's in Israeli accent. We Love Alon, but where you know so? So presumably were you born in Israel? Tell us about your life's journey that brought you to this moment in time, sitting here on a podcast with your good friend Sam Jacobs. Yeah, it's more than just having coffee with Sam, it's about really connecting. So he has the weird accent. So every time somebody invites me to talk and speak, like to see my name alone. Okay, that must be like Israeli. Okay, and then I start speaking and then it's like there something wrong with this section. It is not the pure is really excent, as you expect, but it's rather sounds like something that a hybrid or mishmash so armies right in. Originally I grew up in South Africa for about six or seven years and day the hybrid extent, it's not really pure Israeli. And then thirteen years in the US. So think about me as the melting pot pretty much of excellent. You are the embodiment of everything that America stands for. Exactly here I am. So and what's your background? How long have you been doing marketing? How did you get into this? Give us, you know, give us the high level summary details, but we're interested in how you arrived in this position. Very Long Journey. So marketing is something that I think came about without knowing that. I didn't know how to put my fingers and say I like marketing. What I did do is this in the army, I was exposed to technology in different ways of serven Israeli army, like everybody, and thank you for your service, of course. Of course, doesn't matter which service it is, as long as it's a right, it's all one cause. Yeah, and so the Army Expos me to technology and then I decided to go and learn a bit of more tech and I do completer science and Economics and but but as opposed to as people. I couldn't find myself being in like a great computer related technology guy, whether software engineer or computer guy or it wasn't me. So I did consulting for many years, and consulting help me understand two things. Help me understand the positive, which is I like to do things which are customer facing but build them the right solutions, whether there is service or product, that get value. That was cool and I dubbed in a lot of different project but also learned something that is also that is also true, which is consulting me be cool, but you like the end ownership and accountability of executing the project. It's always falls on the client. So you can consult as much as you want, but at the end of the day the client is the accountable and responsible and owners the capi. And that led me to start moving towards more of a customer facing role in marketing, where I wanted to meet clients, work with people on a one too many, one to few or talk about that a lot later it and be able to carve messages that all about the value. And without knowing that I did these roles in different companies and then it started become marketing and that's how I got to marketing and I've been in marketing over fifteen years now. That's that's a great story and so so you alluded to it. I think they're there may be many different definitions of marketing, but yours is the message. Is that the emphasis for you on what the depth, what it means to do marketing? Yeah, so let's define marketing to what it means to the audiences in the world. There's be to be and BTC marketing which, luckily, and one things I love, they are stunting to blend in the Gott market strategy and...

...tactics. Marketing usually means putting something in front of an audience in consumable manner that will relate some emotional or some quantifiable thing that gets them to do something, getting an action. It's about a message, about a brand and about by this, don't do this, do that. It's about relating to an audience by value messages of work. That's what how I see marketing and the way I look at it. Marketing and be the bees usually around. How do you drive a sophisticated or complex story in a simpler, in a conveyable manner to specific audience or persona, that they relate to it similarly and be to see. How do you relate a car, a beer, a magazine, a product? Soap doesn't with detergent in exciting yet consumable manner. That's not just about prices, about differentiating on value and not going to price. So when you think about let's talk about B to be for a second, it seems like so part of it is distilling the message, but part of it is also, of course, using tools and technology perhaps to deliver that message at a specific point in time. It seems like such a wide ranging and all encompassing discipline. How do you think about developing expertise in it? You have to focus in a specific area and round out areas where you lack expertise or competence with support staff. How do you think about becoming a VP of marketing and what that means? Yeah, that's fair point to look at. First of all, it's about where does the audience go? The number one think you need to think about, and then you build your strategy and then you add the components, resources, consultants to help you define and executed strategy. If you for example, a be to be company, software sess depends. We all enterprise s and beat all different. You need to think about ways my audience living, breathing and where do they go or where could you make them go? That helps you define the kind of marketing strategy you need to do. Example of this is very different if it's somebody that goes shops for betubes see items at the store, vers is going online direct to consumer, versus Amazon, all the way to the IBMs and and Microsofts and the other big companies of the world, which really you go one to one. For Enterprise companies use channel and education and do like high end stuff, relationship marketing as well. So the spectives very broad. But once you define the spectrum, let's say be to be mid market, which is my focus many now in midmarket enterprise is, you understand that they are tactics and you don't know. For example, I can define storytelling. I can tell a great message to great audience and that's one of my strength. But I am not very creative and my design is my team and everybody always lost at me is there's a loan design and then there's real design. A loan design is like my son of sex is old. We're relatively on the same level of design capability and I know that I'm not a great designer. You know what also so used to? You build support, and I can. I can gradually go into the ideal team long term and short term work where you compromise. You build support system of people that can help you, challenge you, but also can compliment you with amazing skills like design, like creative, like a real content writing editorial person. The usually that compliments your head of marketing or CMO, because they can go in depth and do long form writing. Most of us, the more senior, do short term writing, tell a story, but not going to write the five ten people pages of research and you. So you also get people that are experts in the ability to do digital in a modern way, a more out of bound vers is inbound really go deep into a holistic, three hundred and sixty degree approach of targeting, a personal targeting company, by leveraging different digital tools, which are becoming more and more and more and more abundant today. So that's so look at it.

Let's talk about the evolution of marketing. You know you've been doing it. I think you mentioned for fifteen years. I would imagine that the channels have changed, that some things that work today were not in vogue yesterday and things that work yesterday don't work anymore today. And one of those big things is account based marketing. And so first of all it'll be useful to get your perspective on why account paste marketing is so discussed and talked about today and what it means, and then we can move on to you know, how you execute an ABM strategy. Yeah, so why don't we start at the very beginning? It's a very good place to start, where this ABM thing came it became the Buzzwood of the buzz wood de jure right. So let's take back on ten years. There was that Omni channel and there was like multi channel and digital, digital, mobile, mobile. Every year everybody said this is a year of mobile. It's been the year of mobile for twenty years and now the thing called ABM is now really the hot potato. Every trade show, every company talks about it in the mid marketing by software. So why is beum so hot? The reason is three things that effect of his people, consumers and businesses. One, the abundance and noise of digital. We've had enough. This is something that is not going to work. When you do the one too many traditional approach of people, you would have spend in search marketing. You want to spend in social marketing, you want to spend in this inbound content channel. Flipping the funnel is actually critical today because you spend a lot of money to top of the funnel. It is lots of noise and digital, in display, in search or that, and it's very hard to get to qualified audience today because of so many things going on, so many publications, is so much use going on. So it's hard. So and when just a cover definitional sake for the audience when we when you're talking about digital and you sort of alluded to it, but you mean add words. You mean search engine marketing, you mean facebook display, you know, facebook advertising, instagram advertising, maybe even linkedin advertising. Is that all that you mean, or do you also mean thought leadership, content creation, you know, creating white papers and ebooks and gated content and things like that? So sort of the traditional demand Gen playbook is that is what is less and less effective. Correct with a little bit of an explanation. We need to make sure we don't confuse content with how we serve it. Distribution is change. Distribution of old is I have a white paper. It appeals to this audience, which is maybe a vertical or maybe a persona, maybe the entire segment of mid market financial services. Let's say I serve it out and throw it out to tons of money for h girls, high quality leads that are going to say I am now downloading this swipe paper. That's okay, that's not a bad strategy. But you cannot do that at scale anymore because it's still is a digital Edwards social linked in, which is very good. You have to think about them in a strategic, cohesive view rather than, God, think about the channel and going by people, go by the accounts that you want to serve. Ie. You want to think about a smaller look alike model of the companies that you know are a best fit for you. By signals like that, the right size that there are persona, they've done the right hiring, the looking for the right things, are showing intent intense. This is point of the too. Intent marketing is mature. The Lot with intelligence, AI and everything around digital signals collection. So instead of throwing a broadnet of Edwards ACM for the impact strategy and content. You want to take that content and do it much more personalized and targeted towards a selective, smaller group, which is what I call not one too many but one too few. And that is the role of marketing today to go...

...for targeted. So how do you do that? How do you move from one too many to one to feel sure one too many? An example of one too many would say I have a page on our website that is for all the financial services companies and I do a lot of SEMPPC related and spend on digital tactics to bring people in. Today. They like what they see and then the convert. That is a traditional one too many approach, organic or paid. The one to few approach means I'm taking the top Onezero or five hundred, depends on the segment. Mid Marketed atipist financial services, that a have the right three to forty five people persona titles. What is sometimes called is a decision group in the company that I know usually buy or have a need for something. Like me, I look for different signals. I score them as on an account basis by a connecting to intent based algorithmic tools in the world. I can go to examples later. I look at what where they're going to webinars and events and whether actually doing things, kind of like unofficials talking to understand what these God people go and then I only target them in a collective, integrated compaign manner. Emails, send them display, but only targeted display. I align the message to them like a nurture, top of the final, middle of the finance so forth. I give them things that are much more relevant to these people by a vertical by persona by stage, by intent, versus doing a lot much broad sprain pray tactic, which is not a modern bit of approach. So I have a question. Of course, it sounds like for it sounds complicated and expensive. So here let me react to the following statement. ABM is a euphemism for simply the fact that customer acquisition classes increased. It is not a complete sentence. Why? Here's what it none of this is good. This is getting too into numbers, and I love numbers. So if you spend, for example, let's say you're spending one six of your ACV, your owner contract value, on your marketing acquisition, meaning before you put this person to a b Dr or before you give it to a rep if it's warm enough, or qualified marketing. Qualified Account is the match. Is One six the right number? It depends on work. If your mid market enterprise are your lifetime value, but anywhere between a fourth to an eighth is good. I go for eight, but you know on six is fine. So it's okay. So sixtyzero deal. We're spending tenzero on marketing per customer to acquire them. Correct but fully acquire. That is the marketing, fully loaded cost. You couldy R head count and everything else. Let's see, no sales. No sales expense in there. That's right. Don't expense yet. Okay, so that's the sex. Okay, so you have for like it to work for twelve month. Keck return. You spent two months on this. These are very, very targeted, very qualified and it's all about your wind right in your conversion rate, and you bring them to an event and they come to your wayment or they become a speaker, which is one of my famous tactics. I love to invite them to be speakers and meet people like them with a small setting, very intimate, because visible and me all about in person. Then you think old man you spent tenzero dollars on a cost per s ql from marketing, but then they converted like thirty three to fifty percent all the way down the funnel. We're going to get to stage just now. Then your total care, including sales and everything, is not bad because your conversion rates you're being very targeted. So the numbers to look at them, not just your cost of equisition per each closed. You want to look at your total marketing spent fully loaded over all, and look at how well you're doing for these ones. So it's not about the numbers, it's about your percentages of how many. So, for example, you're going for five hundred Azero companies and you could rooted them as five times the right you would have converted in bound. It's okay to spend three times as much, which is the gally. What you'll see interesting. Okay, how do you get good at this?...

I mean, it feels like these are this is a new discipline, you know, it does not feel like this has been around twenty years. Hiring a LAN TO BE VP of marketing, abusivel what is my realistic expectation on how much you already know? And what are they? How do you make sure that you're up to speed on the latest and greatest. Yeah, we first of all, a lot of it is black, but but it's not just like it's about, you know, being trying to be curious. Here's the thing. ABM has been talked about for many years and then without even being called a BM. I've done it for five years ago as well, but it's not much on mature, with a lot of tools and modern writing and examples, and everybody saying I've done it, I'll tell you I haven't. Correct the code and may be and no way. Every market, every company, every persona every decision group is different. How do you understand? What are the ladies invaders? You listen to people like myself, but others are trying to do it. Well, you work very hard with your VP cells. You must be aligned on the list because if you're talking to join reven and collective right, you'll have to join very collective, because that is the only home for market. Is Today exactly it is? Well, it's true. There's no better. And this is also a consultative approach, which is part of a Bam. You're not just going to tell people, look at our great product before you know what they're looking for in what is their pain? It's one hundred and one account by selling, which is a relying to accountas marketing. This how they all come together. Learning about ABM today is really being connected to how people implementing it, and my number one recommendation to people around their BM from a software perspective is don't buy tools before you understand and try out your list to target accounts, optimize it, understand your messaging. You cannot be a slave to the tool. The tool is to be aligned to your strategy. Yes, well, that's so true. I mean, and so many times when I'm consulting with companies they say we needed a managin person. I say, but you don't. You don't even know what you're messaging or positioning is. So what are we supposed to put in the ads? You know what are we're writing the white paper about. So I think understanding what you stand for. So it's the first thing that needs to happen. You've mentioned in the past ABM as a team sport. Tell us what you mean by that. So think about this. Let's say you have an amazing marketing team. Kick Ass, know the messaging, know the persona do it all amazing every day. And they decide we're doing this amazing ABM program around two hundred target accounts. We're going to choose them, we're going to send them stuff and go do direct me and we're going to do a road show, we're going to do nice dinners and that. But your Bedos and yourselves, guys, work on a completely differentest. Salesmen and women. Yeah, so sales when and women. Correct Yourself. Team makes on event. So one of yourselves people. Let's say she decides that she's working on these top twenty accounts. That's it, and that's fine because aligned with her manager and the line, with every PA and she's prospecting into them with her Bedeo as a twenty to fifty accounts, starget accounts with market and advice, and we are for marketing. The same time, let's say we're going for a complete different set of clients prospects. That doesn't make any sense because you're not doing an integrated approach to them, with the one to one and one too few marketing. Cannot do the one to one personalized oswol consultation, give examples and go in depth. We can do great examples of here's the prospect. Here as a case study, heres the direct mill. He's a provocative video. He has the event. You have to have alignment between your VP marketing the VP sales on what the lists and the list definition is. And once you do that, you defied the criteria and defied what I called the warm to cold scale work. First of the warm a constant and the cold accounts by each t of companies. That is extremely important because otherwise you balketing. ONCE ABM in the silo, it's not going to convert. That makes perfect sense. A try. How do you if I again,...

I hear you on the conversion rates? I understand, but you spend money in marketing before you see the result by definition. And so how does a company dip their toe if you're an early stage company and your you're precious with your capital and you need to demonstrate results? Implementing a robust ABM strategy would seem prett daunting to me if we're talking about three times customer requisition cost relative to traditional demand generation strategy, even though, even though we know that traditional, you know, the traditional stuff, meaning the thing that's five years old, isn't working as well as it used to. So I know that I have to do a BM. I know I have to do events and stick dinners and I need to do targeted displays and I need to host user conferences and I need to send things in direct mail, but I'm scared because it is so significantly more expensive. So how do I? How do I experiment with ABM in a ask the fact of way very good. I would start with what I call ABM light. Abo Light does not mean you do to do the steak dinners yet. Abium light does not mean, first of all, user conferences a bit later. It means that you want to focus on the one to few, not one to feel one to one, look for five hundred companies. Start with that interesting and compelling value based approach of email display a be tested all the time so that you're not blowing out your numbers, so that your cosper qualified account is still low and not much higher than it would be from a one too many approach. Look at the signals people are clicking, look at the scoring of optimize the scoring once you sing trends, just like with everything, because marketing is making decisions with limited data. Then start taking those that have gone to and show you some intent for them to the deeper, more expensive ABM. Invite them to be speakers at your events. Invite them to this, not the steak, maybe tuna dinner. Invite them to join you feel the event, at a trade show, these kind of things. Invite them to be a Webinar, we're podcast speaker for you, because that's, MMM, just what am I trying to sell you right now? Are you trying to sell me about staying with you, connected on whether you collective best place in the world? So basically, what I'm saying is start with the one to feel, for example, love, to do what I called themes. These are a collection of programs and campaigns that focus on a specific vertical persona or two persona sometime, and then also on something interesting that, for example, displacing an incumbent or a very specific big event like dream force others. I want to have a multi program multi campaign theme that is usually for two quarters and it is maybe a thousand to two thousand to five thousand companies that are very similar, look alike model, and for them you do this ABM light. You don't set direct mail to two companies. That makes no sense. Out of those you choose the tier one, maybe two hundred and fifty companies, depends on many sellers you have, and then you send them the direct mail your landed to. Want one B Bdi work. You give them the tool assessment, that our white or the consultancy tool. You're in voting to discovery consultation half days. That's how I will do it. I will do a cheering between one to few, two, one to one. That is only way that will work. When is your favorite piece of direct mail that you're sending? Right now? It's not sent yet, so I'm not able to expand because I don't want to people to know yet. I'll tell you the examples I've done recently. I am we did a great Bagel drop, which was one of the taglines whether we use at the prior company was around everything around the customer, and then we chose a wh was a lot of new your companies that everything Bagel made a lot of sense because everything Bagel, everything on the customer. And I so magels around. Yeah, exactly, the bags round visisty degrees. You can look through it and you see your customer Bole side. There's a lot of...

...things you can do with the Bagel. It's a very exciting piece of food. And then so we gave him. We went for a very simple and also about yours. Need to think about the mentality of the class the client. So is that an executive that you want to do a very high end, very funny, very cool piece that comes to them only and it makes them push down to the person that you want, your decision maker? Or is it for the team? You want to show love to a team like, for example, the events team or the custom experience team or the marketing team? That's where the bagels came in for the team lead, but also the entire team. We want to serve your bagels and fun on a Friday. That's on us, because and then invite you guys a city and always has to be a CTA for the rect well, me to us. So come to event one of those. So there was a cool one. Were working on our bus a box, which is the box, and that's tpt. I cannot say what's going to be in it. That's going to be one of us. Some fun things now, yeah, but it's all around. It all is to be actionable. Just having swag or here's the IPAD cover. Meet us if you want to get the IPAD. Yawn. I don't think that those things work. I think it's it's not just about the gifts, about how the gift relates to the person, how the gift relates to your solution, because we all want to be intrigued by smart, funny, very creative ways. That makes sense. Okay, another I don't know if this is controversial. You'll probably maybe I'll agree me, agree with me. But here's the problem. I find executives and CFOs, non marketers and non sales people. Perhaps they want this very rigorous. They want a binary world of attribution. They want to know exactly where every customer came from, as if people make decisions based on one touch point. But the reality is that, especially with an ABM strategy, the sales team in the marketing team are going after accounts and so, you know, understanding the Roi, quote unquote, of marketing or specific campaign becomes much more difficult. Do you agree with that or do you disagree? And then how do you position Marketing Roi in the most effective, comprehensive way? Back to the CEO when they're they're pounding the table for what is the Roi on this campaign? But it doesn't really work like that in many cases, or maybe it does. What do you think? Yeah, so very, very good point. This is one of my courage challenges and I'm going to tell you I don't think anybody's crack the code on marketing. Clear attribution completely from not just a BM but out bound out bud themes. Maybe I'm light everything I talked about, and here's why. This is it. Point number one. ABM An out bund focus. Marketing usually works with a company goes a little bit more hop, market thoughts going really into enterprise and therefore your ACV grows a lot, and that's why you're willing to spend more and be more targeted and know that it's a consultative cell. In order to do that, it is usually, as a mention, a good alignment between sales and marketing on the target list, and then one too, one by the sales and bedos or marketing provides what is called a cover. That is our main goal now, is what you do. So now how do you measure a cover? Well, attribution comes in in this way. What I do is I look at the funnel. Is something that we marketing need to warm up these accounts. They are not always going to be hot leads knocking on our doors a demos. That is part of it, but that's not the number one goal, which is usually what in bound is focus on pay two hundred, fifty, three, hundred, dozen million dollars across the company. They come in bound, they get a demol done, very clear tribution. That world is not too relevant for out bund up market. In our market. What you look at is this. You look at Mka is marketing for qualified accounts. Your funnel is still a funnel, but it's account based funnel. So you're looking, for example, at a program around. Here's a five hundred companies that we targeting for this...

...year that we're going to do a lot of engagement around them. We want them to put are what I've named. It is called surgeony. You want them to search and you score them on the activity and in behavior around it. Once they reach a threshold, that is when you define them at as an MQA marketing qualified account and then two things happen. A you can attribute wind rate, closed right cost per and velocity. I look for every ABM program to bring a hundred and pears a month and those need to go to the sales as prioritize, if you're so. Wait. Hold. One hundred MQA's a month means, from a list of a thousand, we've warmed up, we've surged with kind of gotten them, we've shifted their emotional psychological state a hundred times a month. Is that right per account or can there be multiple contact perkram? None of that. Let's say you have a list of a thousand, which is nice. That's a big list. You should slice it by verticals. Incumbent displacement does a better. So a list of a thousand, let's simplify. A hundred M Q has every month means you have had, out of these thousand target accounts, one hundred accounts that they reached an qualification level. So scoring for an account base is different. It doesn't mean that same for example, who is a target persona or maybe a second or sort up, has done an extremely hard and very impressive action on downloading three white papers and then requesting at their well, that could make it qualified. It could also mean that alone, same David and Joe, Sally and one more person each did one action. But as a company, with seeing a lot of surging and activity, that shows us that the decision group in the right personas that's why also clude fitscal and persona based school that shows enough activity say there's something going on, yet this is a warm account sales go pro tize this over called account. I see. That is what is the a cover role of bucketing, and I measure it by MQA's marketing qualified accounts. That makes sense, I get it. You've mentioned building a team, hiring people. That compliment you, and one of your one of your themes is don't delay top highers. Tell us you know why you think that and and how you've implemented it. Isabelle, if you have in terms of like the key reports, the key staff members that you need on a high functioning marketing organization in order to do, to deliver. You know this, this ABM funnel that we're all trying to build. Yeah, so you always learn things in retrospect and you think and you learn from your passe. The one thing I've really learned about, especially in the hyper high clock rate and place that's demanding, like every startup, which is good because that's what we go to. It is, you know, usually pretty soon, either when you join, maybe even before, or relatively quickly after like one quarter in as a marketing lead, where your gaps are, and that's okay. Sometimes you know your gaps and you fill them in because you know how. Sometimes you know that you have a plan towards it. Maybe budget maybe had cut, whatever, you take actions. The number one thing I've learned it of also trying to teach myself all the time, is identify the gaps quickly and try to make sure that one of the things you aligne on with your CEO, CFO or see other things that are going to be critical in the past to success on getting two quarters out really strong ABM success, warm accounts, content that makes sense, events and makes sense all of that. I try to do this as quickly as I can. Doesn't always work, but try. I would recommend to do it before you join the company and then optimize one quarter in. Okay, you've mentioned that events. I mean you're obviously working at what did you call what is the category called event? So it's not an event manager and system way, and we are in event success cloud and Events Success platful. Okay, got events success platform. Okay. So your perspective is that events and maybe community more broadly, but specifically events are some...

...of the most effective marketing Roli channels that that we can deploy, but I think a lot of folks look at them as pretty expensive. What's your perspective on the cost of an event and you know the value of an event? Sure, I feel very strong about it and and this is why wouldn't visible reached out to me, I actually decided to join. So I focus, as marketing I think should a lot of time do, on experience and engagement, especially in the outbound and ABM world. That is our goal, a cover engagement and showing that we what we do resonates with audience versus making them ask fold to see the product. Always that our goal is engager. If in person activities, whether it's a trade show, you meet somebody, a field event, hosted summit event, a dinner or even a user conference, are really magical and amazing in the sense of two things. People want to learn from other people. That is ann fact, especially as the person becomes more senior, and we trust in the as I've alluded to the ABM reservetional. We trust people that I like us, versus vendors or digital promotion. The second thing is we want to learn thought leadership and take the time out of work to really focus on something, because we areheads deep. Not have time events. Let us learn a little, take a breather and think and really help. You what's called get out of the building and re evaluate. Why do I believe in in person events? In person it's a have the best our wire, not just for mid funnel, but followed also top of the final for me, which is amazing bit be this is why you can spend ten, fifteen, even maybe less thousand dollars on a small summit in your office or somewhere with a partner, or somewhere with one of your clients even, and let them be the hero and do a two hour, three our penal event with one keynot it takes tons of work and it right team, in the right mentality and the right angle, and Anchor Angle means an interesting story and interesting topics, something cool, a cool location, and come means you have the right speakers, somebody that people will look up to, I want to learn from. And then you place your clients, because that the people you care about the most, and your top prospects, which are your future clients. Could you care about them also the most? After your employees, which are the best people in the world, and you bring them together as a community. And when you do this repeatedly around the theme like director consumer or around in person connection or about experiential marketing, things I've done recently, magic happens. People come together, they speak, they network. You always run a bit late because people want to keep talking to each other, not to see the next speaker, and this really shows. Usually you get over fifteen x or why. You can get even up to thirty. I've had more than that even, and it is impressive way to you to drive influence and top of the funnel, very top and upmarket enterprise companies to start learning about you from a thought leadership perspective. I'm a sure believe when you say thirty Xro I, but that plays out over time. I would imagine your mangic. Maybe you're measuring it a year later or something like that. So depends on the cell cycle, of course, and you're everything around the size of the target audios. But I start measuring really I want to see one quarter out. I want to see pipe plan or was a progression? I want to be able to see close right ors, a wind way to want to see influence race, because not everybody's new. If you want to look at how many a bottom of the funnel or late stage companies are coming in and then the closing due to the sectivity. So yeah, you got to measure it at at least three, six, nine months out in order to see the progression and then you optimize and you know more. We've got a few more minutes. I want to ask a few more questions and then also figure out who your influences are and who's impacted you and who you think we should know about. But we are talking. You mentioned you need to get your messaging down and you need to have a point of view and need to start with a list and work it before you start buying a bunch of tools. But you do at some point, probably do need to buy...

...a bunch of tools when you and you can name the vendors or not, but more interested in the categories. What are the categories of tools that you've installed in your text act to deploy a modern marketing strategy? So let's look at I always map the by a journey. I think this is very important. Doesn't matter what's software you use. It's about the buyers, which is now not just a persona, but it's an account. What are your primary secondary influence of Personas? Go Deep, go broad. This is very important. Before you start doing anything, take your time, talk to them, understand them, don't just blay a tool, as I mentioned a few times. Of It the tools that I believe in. It this. First of all, you have to have a strong marketing automation and and CRM. We your self spce and we asop spot and we're happy with both. But you it's not just about the tools, how you use it. So it's about the connection, integration, the scoring, the sophistication, the work close every tool as pros and cons not the topic of today, and we also use something like lean data in order to translate it the lead to an account world, because you need to be able to focus on the same language in the Summittomic unit across your marketing, sales and service clouds, and that is one thing that is still challenging, I believe, to day. To Go to market organization, you do a BM with the top, but what happens and sells force whatepps afterwards us of so that's that stack is very important. I would say one more piece of the puzzle. Event software obviously important, but biased naturally, but everything around in person. So you need something to host a Webinars, your podcast, your in person events in a smart abmnner and have a full integration and analytics, because every touch point, at every data point, whether it's an event, whether it's a moment or withouts own digital whether it's an email, whether it's in person on a flight, you need to be able to capture and make it actionable. So those are very important tools. In the third is intent, based the modern way. Which are ABM tools? Not Going to go into which one, but those are things you should consender after you know that your ABM is working at a small scale. Makes a lot of sense, a lot. Let's pay it forward a little bit. When you think about people that have influenced you, great sales leaders, great marketing leaders, who are some of the facts that you think we should know about? Okay, sure, marketing. I'll start first. I had a ment of mind many years ago when I was at life person and I had global marketing on. You are God. There are amazing guy. Now with Google, he wasn't only a good mentor and friend, but also somebody that we could why do we get along well because we could throw ideas and challenge each other in a positive manner and we could really go to war together on interesting, cool, big ideas and big things and not just a dry things that you have to do. So I really appreciate it. Did the him challenging me and I appreciate it with not challenge back him, the whole company Gout. That's just who I am. He was okay with it and help me get along for that was cool. And you, I think you also about sells people as well. Right, are some of my top yeah, wherever knew your growth, vickers and Erica, I'm gonna give a shout out to I think they're both incredible. Vicause, Brandy and I work together three different companies and we are the kind of a head of sales and head of marketing that can go have a few beers and I fund and then can get into a room and beat each other up, but then we got a battle together any day. So I like that. A lot of things their intimate. Yeah, yeah, in different story, different day. Ye. So yeah, I believe that yoursels and marketing leaders need to not be pc but we to hash it out, have beers or whatever ways to engage each other, go for a run, whatever, as long as you must be able to be very candid and even sometimes lose all the bullshit between...

...the two do and be like straightforward and tell you call each other out in a polite but in very action will way. We don't have time and nobody is a luxury to bullshit. and Erica shorts was the head of sales and field at life present the time we worked for us together. She I think she was great at a looking at total strategy and really evangelizing and hiring that people in order to propel a company forward. I respected a lot what you did. I think she's one of them. This is the woman that's is you chief have an officer of new relict right now. She's she's a heaven. She's very well known alone. Thank you for your time on the salesacer podcast. If folks are out there, maybe their marketers that are interested in learning more, or maybe they're people that want to work for you, or maybe they want to purchase busibel. Can People get in touch with you and, if so, what is your preferred method of communication? Of course happy to help people when I have the time and obviously happy to tell them about us and myself linkedin is usually my preferred manner. I believe it's usually my name is always the same. My email can always change, so just look at it. And so for those out there listening, it's alone al n and then walks waks. Right. That's correct, perfect alone. Thanks so much for being on the show and we'll talk to you on Friday for Friday fundamentals. All right, and all the best. Thank you. Hey, everybody, it's Sam Jacobs and this is Sam's corner. Fantastic interview with alone one box, who's a good friend, a member of revenue collective and the VP of marketing, a Bizaba which I mentioned, we use at revenue collective to manage our events. Now. Alone mentioned a lot of different things, but what we were really talking about was this concept of ABM, account based marketing, and how you do it, and he made a couple of key comments, key insights. The first is that you have to understand that the conversion rates are going to improve and that is how you're going to justify the increase in investment. So Abim is going to cost you more than a traditional demand generation strategy of gated content, search engine marketing, social media marketing, etc. But you're going to have higher conversion rates. Not The first thing to do before you go out and buy a bunch of tools as you need to get a list, and it's a very it's very simple. Who were the folks that you want to go after? Who are the people? And then that needs to be developed in conjunction with the sales team. So sales and marketing need to be going after the same set of accounts. ABM does not work if the sales team is going after one set of accounts in the marketing team is going after another set of accounts, or even just a different group of accounts within the same alone mentioned that he works on a quarterly basis. Each quarter he aligns with the sales team. They figure out what are the themes, what are the campaigns that they're going to deploy against those targeted list of accounts, and then they work them in conjunction the sales team and the Dr Team, in alliance with the marketing team, is focused on delivering a series of messages and events and campaigns through different channels that all are focused on a set of accounts that they have decided are going to be a good fit. Now he mentioned something else. He mentioned that you have to think about intent data. So intent data is the new category of Marketing Technology that tells you from your target accounts, who are the ones that are going to be most likely to be interested based on, frankly, some of the things that they are doing. So this is they are doing these things on the Internet and they are leaving digital traces throughout their journey online and you use those traces to figure out who we're going to be the most likely, on an account by account basis, to resonate with your message. So Count Bass Marketing. It's a team sport. There needs to be alliance between the sales team and the marketing team for it to be effective, and make sure that you're thinking about intent data to increase the likelihood that some of the folks become, as alone said, marketing qualified accounts, Mqa. So this has been Sam's corner. Thanks so much for listening. Of course, we want to thank our sponsors. Our first one to show pad, the first unified sales enablement platform, to one stop shot for your sales team to do prep and deliver the best buying experiences for your for your clients. Learn more show padcom forward, salesacker. Of course, outreach dot I owe the leading sales enablement platform,...

...and if you want to get in touch with me, you're free to do so. Thanks for feedback, for comments, for recommendations. On guests, it's Sam Jacobs, so that's linkedincom forward. Slash the word in and then forward Sam f Jacobs, and I look forward to hearing from you and I will talk to you next time.

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