The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

6. The Secret to Incredible Sales Management and Coaching Culture w/ Marc Jacobs

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

On this episode of the Sales Hacker podcast, we talk with Marc Jacobs, SVP of Sales and Customer Success at CB Insights about the secret to incredible sales management and building a coaching culture.

One twoone thre three hi everyone and welcome to the SalesHacker podcast on your host Sam Jacobs, fotter, the New York revenue collective.Before we start a quick thank you to this months. Sales Hanker, podcast,sponsor, nod nodes, AI discovery platform can understand the meaningcontext and connection between any person or company by proactivelysurfacing opportunities that are highly relevant and personalized in real time.Note is creating an entirely new paradigm for sales and markingprofessionals to grow pipeline and accelerate revenune felocity vis. Itinfhodot no don Io for WHICD sale, tacker to learn more and now on, withthe show everybody at Sam Jacobs of the SalesHacker podcast. I've got Mark Jacobs here with me, SP of sales success fromCBN sihes, we're so excited to have you welcome mark thanks, Samo happy to behere: APPRECIAT, Yo Avman. You are one of the best sales leaders in New YorkCity. You built a great business from greenhouse. What we want to first do,though, is just get a little bit of your baseball card Stad. So give usyour title really quickly. I am the SBP of sales and customer success at CBNsites awesome and so tell us a little bit about what CBN sites does yeah soCBN sites. We have a platform, we aggregate lots of data on DC atinsmedia tention, that sort of thing through machine learning and with theanalysts that we have on the team, we try to predect our technologies going.We deliver that to our mostly very large customers in a platform, and theyuse the platform to try to make strategic decisions either in theirinnovation teams or strategy teams. That's those sort of roles to make surethat they're, not the next blockbuster, the next blockbuster being the companythat is that becomes obsolete through an obsolete business bottle. It's notthe business model, it's just not understanding that de struption was wascoming to them and they they didn't see it coming and they ee paid for thatokay CBN sites. What's the revenue range of the company we're somewhere inthe thirty to fifty million dollar range, perfect and thening you'rrunning sales and success? I am so tell us how big is your organization, so wehave the company itself we're closing in on almost two hundred people. Theorganization, the sales and Customer Success Organization were at aroundseventy five people growing responsibly, but but rapidly as well, and you guys,if I'm not mistaken and you've, said this here at the conference that we'reat you guys have doubled each of the last three years. Is that accurate? Yes,I got to CB insites only a little bit under a year and a half ago the companywas doubling at that time and we doubled in two thousand and seventeenas well fol. Congratulations! So one of the questions I ask is: What is theamount of capital raised for the company that the sales leaders that Iinterview are working at you've got an interesting answer to that question.Yeah. You know I've been on both sides of the companies, a that raise a lotand don't raise a lot. What was really interesting to me about CBNSITES andwhat I found to be extremely valuable in working at CBN sites, is that priorme Gettin there cbin site, Haid boodstrapped, sixty six people, andthen they end up raising ten million dollars and unbelievable haven't eventouched any of that. They prove that you don't have to raise venture capitalin order to be successful and, and so revenue to is the best source offunding for us and it's the cheapest. Obviously, it's also the Best Valeatorr co on and always talks about that. As I said, the company has doubled inrevenue every year and that's without using any any funding. So that'samazing we're going to come back to that breaking down your organization,so e understand it. So you run customer success. You have the traditionalframework across the seventy five to eighty people, so you've got SDRs.Youve got account executives, just walking through a little bit of the orkchart, so we know the scope of the function that you're responsible forabsolutely so I have an a really good sales opts team, which I think's reallessential to scaling and growing. Have the customer success organization wherewe have a customer success leader.

That's on my team, with a number O ofmanagers and customer success managers under them. I have the accountexecutive team with a couple of sales directors that are managing them, aswell as outbound and in bound str teams, which has been the biggest Proth we'vehad on the team. So you've been doing this a little while you've got a largeteam. You know I first got to know you when you were building greenhouse,which is another of the best and fastest growing companies here in thecity. But how long have you been doing startups and sort of give us a littlebit about your background and your origin story sure before even goinggoing back all the way to college a so I graduated from University of Delaware.I didn't really know what I wanted to do like a lot of other people. I sortof wasn't ready to face reality and I ended up going to law school, which Ithought was the best way to avoid the real world, and my father seemed tolike the career lot. I wasn't really that into it right from the beginning,but I knew that I would be getting whatever I was doing in law. School Iwas going to be Ho would be I', be able to leverage that going forward. Igraduated I practice for a few years. It wasn't something I was passionaabout. I moved over to business development. That was something Istarted right away to feel a lot of passion Rightin. My first experience ina startup was at a company, a smaller company, a privately held company thatwas selling into tax and accounting teams in big corporations. I was anindividual contributor. Over there continually got promoted until I becameBPS sales. That was my first bps sales role and we got purchased by Thompson.Weiters Iwas at a few other tie tech companies before landing at greenhouse,but at greenhouse I came in, I spent two and a half years over there and wetenex revenue in those two and a half years wow. You know I'm curious,because we've got a lot of folks that are probably in a similar position towhere you were at back at the beginning of your career. How did you know- and Ithink that company you've mentioned it to me in the past- cross bordersolutions? Yes, was the company that sold into taxand accountants and gotacquired by Tom's Reuters? How did you know he said you felt like it was abetter fit when you're doing business development there? How did you know? Iguess you mean a better fit from practicing law from your personalityand you said you landed there and you felt more comfortable and all of asudden, you were high performing individual contributor yeah. So was itjust a natural fit? Did they give you training where you identified with someof the concepts you know going back to it? I don't know really what the reasonwas. I could say that the reason I was comfortable as because I was beingsuccessful. I don't know if I was successful, because I was comfortable,but when you're in sales and you're and you're doing well, then that that makesthe job that much better. I don't know that it was training. I don't think Igot a ton of training there. It was a lot of real world getting thrown in thefire, doing a lot of things and learning with the company. I was givena lot of autonomy as an individual contributor to try different things andto negotiate, and just it worked out- and you mentioned not a lot of training,one of the things I've heard about you through back channels. I heard it fromDan Brown is. I we werk whose brother Mike Brown works under you, who saidyou know you spent an hour with him and a pod last year going over discoveryprocess. Where did your sales training come from? Besides just learning on thejob? Are there specific methodologies that you use ore, their specificconsultants? How do you think about the act of developing a structured salesprocess when there isn't one yeah? I mean it just comes down to me, the theactual structure itself, the process itself. Those are all all important butwhich one you choose is not really going to decide how successful it is.What's going to decide how successful it is, is first of all getting by andfrom the team and, second of all, making sure that there's a process inplace, there is a cadensin place so that you can have an actual coach ingculture, and in order to do that, you have to continually be coaching onwhatever it is that you've been teaching. So I was fortunate enough inat greenhouse to have a really good enablement person who was great athelping at training on once they got on boarded but continually trained, andthen, as managers and and leaders, we...

...would continually work with the peopleon our team and same thing at CBINSIGHTS. It's something that that Idid bring to the organization was a coaching culture where there is aCatenson from a one on one perspective from a team perspective both on anonboarding well from onboarding and ongoing training. So question for you:I'd love to dig into this a little bit because I think a lot of folks arethinking about. You know the idea that they love to be great coaches. Theylove to help develop people they're, just not sure to the point of thecadence and and Wat specifics would be helpful like sure what is a coachingculture cade, an CCC? What does that look like, for example, at CBN sites?How many one on ones are theire evening sessions? Is it all at Hawk and what isthe role of the enablement person and facilitating all of that right? So it'sacross the board has to be a bought in throughout the organization. So it'snot just one person or you know the Nablman persons doing a great job ofsetting up setting up trainings and making sure that people are getting theright onboarding sessions, those sort of things, but it has to be across theboard. So for us at CBN sites, it's not only the manager, that's managing theeither the SDRs or the account executives. It's podcaptains, it's theas coaching the SDRs they're working with. We have alignment between our asand rsdrs it's across the boarde. Even this morning I saw I wasn't in theoffice today at rainmaker, but I saw that there was a seven, an optionalseventhirty meeting this morning being run by one of our account executives onsomething that they've been successful with, and then I got a picture sent tome at seven forty five this morning, showing fifteen account executivessitting in that room at seven thirty- and I thought you know that shows atthat. Not only do we have the right process to Liy people working, but alsoa motivated sales force, it's bought into wanting to be coached and morningto be better. That is incredible. I can speak from personal experience thatI've had difficulty getting people in at seven thirty in the morning and afull house at seven, forty five. How do you do that? You know one of the thingsthat you talk about a lot and panels and, and you and I have talked aboutoffline- is motivating a quote: UNQUOTE, millennial sales force. What are yourstrategies there and how do you approach that the whole millennialthing? Sometimes you hear you know they get a bad name in a lot in a lot ofcircles and they get. In my opinion, millennials are the best generationthat we have if you pick the right ones and hire the right one. So when I saythat I mean you do have this perception that sometimes there's entitlement, butI would argue the other way is if you find the right group of millennials andyou hire than the right way, they're going to be willing to work and dowhatever is necessary to get shit done, particularly if youare willing to givethem some goals that they need to reach and some rewards for Ittin those goals,not just not just compensation but actually career ladder, stuff promotionfrom within, proving that if there is a place for them to progress within theircareer and you give them what they need to do to get there they're going to getthere if you hire the right ones. So you were one of the first people. Youknow a couple years ago that sort of hammered the concept of career laddersfor me, but you also mentioned interviewing the right way. Do you havea point of view on the right way to interview and maybe the right questionsto ask for the right profile when you're looking a higher the next a orthe next SDR for CBM sites? I look at it two ways that there's two mainthings that I focus on, one is from a cultural perspective. Everyone talksabout culture, but for for what I just said before, when t a you have to beable to ask questions of the candidate to see if they are in that group that Imention that feels entitled or are they the type of person that's willing to dowhatever is necessary, get yit done to get to the next level and be successful.That's a really hard thing to uncover, but if you have enough people that arespeaking to them within the organization that understand ourculture generally, we haven't seen where we've gone wrong in that regard.The other part, which I think is an easier way an easier portion of theinterview process is just making sure that you test them, in whatevercapacity put them in a similar situation that they're going to be andwhen they, when they start the job, and...

...so whether it's an SDR. We test ourSDRs on basically the things that they have to do to be successful. They'regoing to do those things in the interview process, they're going to doa phone they're going to coll, call they're going to send a personalizedemail priorty even coming into the interview process, we're going to testthem for coachability it's so. Basically, you know giving themfeedback on what they've done and see how they handle that and the same thingfor an account executive. You CAN'T! I don't believe that you can hire anaccount executive effectively without testing them and seeing if they'regoing to be the right fit. Ther skill sets going to be he rght fit for yoursale. I've seen way too many times where top sales reps at certaincompanies go to other companies and they just cannot succeed. In the samething, I would say for some sales executives that aren't in the right fit.They can come to a company and be successful if that's the right companyfor their piters Cote skill set. Are there any red flags that you have inthe interview process? One of mine, I have two SOI hope lead the witness alittle bit. One of them is on a phone screen. If they don't answerprofessionally, that's a red flag, so I say I call them nd, they say hello andinstead of hi, this is Sam Jacobs. How are you and then the second thing iswhether they're sending follow up emails? It used to be handwritten. Youknow, maled notes through the mail. That's, I think, an unrealisticexpectation at this point in life, but I still see a lot of times that peopledon't even send a follow up email. Any red flies like that for you, throughthe interview process, I will say the second one that you said is woulddefinitely be a red flag for me if there's no followup, coming back afterthe interview, you know an sales follow up is crucial and if they're not goingto take the time to follow up on the conversation, I'm not sure how we canexpect them to follow up with their prospects. Some other ones that are redflags for me are, if I hear anything in the interview process, where they'renot sure that sales is what they want to be in that they, you know like they,maybe theyr they're interviewing it. The company Salls they look at as anentry into the company, but you know they're not sure that that's the careerthat they want, then that's a red flag for me as well, because it's you know,sales being an str if you're hiin for Nescrdy it's a hard job and you have tobe motivated and you have to want to succeed as a salesperson, there'snothing wrong with changing your mind a year into it. But if you go into theprocess, not sure if you want to be doing sales, that would be a red flagfor me yeah. I I totally agree with you. So, let's reflect on you know, you'vebeen doing the startup thing for a while, and particularly the last tworoles. You seem to have landed on incredible companies. So what do youthink are the biggest lessons learn from you know, the last fifteen or soyears? Obviously you figured out how to hire and you figured out how tomotivate people. But what else have you learned? I could list ton of things,but I think what I said before, just if you're going into a start. First of all,in picking the right start up to go to t e. What I've learned is you know thefounders are essential. You have to be able to not only have smart founders,but you have to Buibl to aline, with whatever their vision is, and I hadthat, both from a greenhouse perspective and now from a CBN sidesperspective, I'm fortunate in both of those companies a as fortunate to havealignment with both with the founders of those companies. What is alignmentlook like and how do you figure out whether you're aligned with the founderor not e? I mean it dependlike for me, it was about how they want to grow thecompany, what they're looking to do, how they would like to hire what theirbelief is and the culture of a company and then also, obviously, you know froma product perspective. You know we can talk all day about product fit and allpart of market fit and all that. But for me, I'm not even talking about thatfor now. I'm talking more about just the feeling that you know you're goingto be hand in hand working with this founder or these founders on a dailybasis, trying to go after some, some really aggressive goals and makingdecisions together and if you're in the interview process- and you don't seeyourself being able to work dataday with those people and learn from thosepeople, then then that's going to be a problem for you. So I was fortunate. Ilearned that that's a really important area. I didn't learn it the hard waylike some others have, but I was I have...

...learned at that U'm fortunate for thechoices that were made there. Another thing is just we talked about themillonnial sales force, an motivating them. I think that's really important.I think from a investing and training perspective, you're not going to beable to scale if you don't invest early, we as N TCBN sites I mentioned before.You know promotion from within all of those things we're reelying we'redoubling down on hiring younger cells ar less experience, salls people andexpecting really large and big things from them, not only right now but butsoon in the future, and so, if you're going to do that, you damn well better,provide them with really good training, onboarding and constant coaching. Ifyou don't by the time you realize it, it's going to be too late. One of thethings you've been talking about and I've seen you talking about on socialmedia, and you- and I were just talking about it- is you feel like you've,cracked, some kind of code when it comes to the success rate of SDRs. Ithink a lot of folks advertise and certainly I've advertised in the past,that you know: We've created the ladders and the career progression andyou come in as maybe an inbound SDR and ow found Sr. That's obviously a topicof debate, but you come in as an SDR. You spend some time, maybe o go to Srone Sur to and ultimately you end up becoming an account executive. I thinka lot of people want it to be true that those SDRs ramp more quickly and aremore successful. I think the bag is mixed, but then I think it's CBINSIDES,it's unequivecally speen successful. What do you attribute that success toit wasn't intentional? By the way I mean you know, I was happy with how youknow other places where we've had these career ladders and sdris becomingaccount executives and just to become an account executive and to start tosucceed in that career. That was that was a good thing from a coachingperspective and feeling good about what you're providing to those younger salesreps. but there is a situation where a lot of times they get, they becomeaccount executives and it takes them a long time to ramp up, because they'venever been a part of closing business. They probably in a lot of cases, havenever heard an negotiation. They certainly haven't been part of dealingwith Procurement Teams, so that coaching there's a lot of things thatthey need to be taught, and so the ramp could take a while what we found at CBNsights and again this wasn't intentional. It just happened to workout this way and I'm doubling tripling down on it, and I would I wouldrecommend anybody to do it. This way we have our account executives, work onnamed the counts and the account executives are aligned with their SDRsgenerally, it's two to two. So if an account executive as a hundred counts,maybe they'll provide thirty five accounts to on SDR thirty five toanother, and maybe they'll do prospectn on the other thirty t. What ends uphappening is the SDR has the opportunity to work with the acountexecutive regularly to map out accounts to look at who we should be going afterand then not only that but they're involved throughout the process. It'snot like they're on every single call, that's happening, but they are copiedon every email that's happening. They are on important. Some of the importantcalls whether it be with it procarement or negotiation, but whatever the casemay be, it's making sure that they again just like t with the interviewprocess, toarits, making sure that they are quoting positions and understandingthat what they have to do to be successful by seeing other accountexecutives. Do it so that when they step into that role, they're not goingto have to relearn everything an in our case, it's been actually a hugeadvantage for them, because not only are they able to do those things, butthey understand our customers way more than someone that we would bring infrom the outside. It takes them a little bit longer to ramp up from thatperspective, but they understand our customers. They know how to prospect.They already have prospecting mindset, and so we've had a lot of success withit. We've had, I think the latest is eight SDRs that were promoted into apoun executives and every one of them hit their number in two thousand andseventeen some of them actually doubled it so wow. So here's a common objectionto that strategy. So, as an aside, I'm a believer in the strategy of pairingsgrs, an AIS, but when you put it in you'll get feedback. What, if I get abad it's by directional feedback? What...

...if I'M PAIRED WITH HE BAD SDR? If I'man SDR- and I built a cop plan that may be include some element of closedbusiness as the incentive comp, what if I'm paired with an ae that can't closethe business rmove the pipeline along? And how do you address those objections?It's a fair objection, but part of it is, I honestly believe, first of all,we're doing to to two WER, not you're, never going to be relying on just oneperson, so that takes a little bit of that that that out of the equation. Iam a firm believer, though, especially when it comes to the AES that they aredirectly responsible for the success of the SRS in many cases. So the a theSDRs that are successful are successful, because a lot of the as that they'reworking with are working with them to make sure that they're successful thattakes. I believe that part of the equation, out of it you're, alwaysgoing to have better strs and better account executives, but what I've seenis that if you have them work together and they're, both alined to besuccessful, it becomes equitable. I have 't at a situation at CBN, sightswhere we had the situation that you're talking about where someone's just notgetting the right resources necessary or not having the right accountexecutive. We also tried to make sure that pair, based on one senior personto an a and one, not a senior person, hen N, we rotatit based on management,sort of deciding how to make it fit best got it. That's reassuring. I thinka lot of folks are thinking about implementing some of those solutionsand want to make sure they do it the right way. When you look at success andfailure in your current role- and I know that you've got some interestingideas about failure. But you know what do you think the biggest drivers arefrom success and failure for my role? I'll start by saying- and you said youknow, you mentioned failure, and it just made me think of I was reading inin our newsletter last week on an RCO writes our newsletter. He wrotesomething pretty I thought was pretty powerful and it was about notfetichising failure. You know it's failure is one thing that's somehow has,especially with with founders, as opposed to talking about myrole orsales roles. Tell your happens when you're selling, but failure issometimes romanticized and when it comes to startups, but the reality isit sucks, and you know, as Onan said, founders should not be talking about.Oh I'll, just learn something and I'll go on to my next thing. You should notwant to fail. If you do don't celebrate it and maybe that's harsh and I don'tthink sales as sales people we always learn. I do think there's times wherefailure is really helpful, especially if you're experimenting- and you knowwe get our urss is kicked a lot and we do fail. But that question you justsaid made me think of what I read with on him. But from going back to yourquestion about the biggest drivers between success and failure, for me, itgoes back to what I said before: hiring the right people that are, we willingto work as hard as necessary to get stuff done. That is a huge equation.How successful you are no matter how good you are as a sales leader, if youdon't have the right people on your team, there's no way to succeed, and Ithink also it's about making the team feel like their one that they'll worktogether. They have this and that that goes to the culture I was talking aboutbefore it's wanting to win together, we have a competitive team, but not theydon't compete with each other. We set up competitions, they work with eachother and they love when each other succeeds and that part of the culture Ithink, is really important to to being successful and, like I said, we rely onless experienced team. If we don't provide the right resources them we'renot going to be successful and then just from a accountability perspective.You know you talked about asking about success and failure. I think beingaccountable openly accountable and Holdin. Your team accountable is theonly way to make sure that you're going to be successful. I've seen many casesand I've done it myself in many cases earlier in my career is, if you don'thold people accountable, and if you you don't move on from people that are notthe right fits or not pulling their weight. That could bring the rest ofthe team down, and so I think, making sure there's accountabilities anincredibly important thing, and then I know I'm talking a lot, but I shouldsay also from a CS perspective as I do...

...oversea both sales and customer successat CBIN sites. If we can't get our customers engage in the platform rightnow, that's what my focusis is on is making sure that our customers are veryengaged within the platform and making sure that they understand the value ofthe platform, and we understand how we can help them. Those are the thingsthat are the difference between me being successful right now and notsuccessful, and what are you specifically graded on? How are youmeasured always interesting to hear how a senior leader I how their success isevaluated in the organization? Is it? Is it just straight revenue, or is itmore complicated than that? It's just shifted, as as two thousand andseventeen ended and going into two thousand and eighteen and for me thethe sales leader CS leader should be old, on whatever e the goals of theorganization are right. So in two thousand and seventeen, my main goalswere on revenue and then also net retention, and we were able to crush itfrom both perspectives. This year, our focus is obviously still on revenue. Italways will be, but we're SPA, paying specific attention to gross retensionas opposed to net and I'm accountable for making sure that we see those goals,both not only just revenue but also making sure that our rosiar tension isin a really good place. What do you think about building the plan, and youknow your goal this year, as you mentioned, is to double again andyou've doubled each of the last three years. You know you guys are settingvery aggressive goals. How do you pick those goals and how do you work withthe CFO to build those goals? You know: What's your strategy there yeah, so ourgoal is actually not to double this year. We are still going to growaggressively, but we're not even trying to double this year. What we're goingto try to do is have seventy five percent growth, but then also, as Imentioned, focus a lot on throughout the organization on making sure thatour grocery tension is where we want it to be and that that includes from aproduct perspective. It includes from obviously from a CS perspective, but inany event, the way that I work with the CFO. You know when you think about therevenue plan. You know, and you actually talked a little bit about ittoday and your session a rayymaker. You know you can't just take a number,throw the number out there and then throw the number of Bodies Times quotaand think that you're going to get to there. It doesn't work that way. Youhave to be able to build the plan both top down and bottom up. You have to beable to make sure that there's enough leadflow to hit those goals and makethem realistic. My philosophy with finance has always been sugar goesfurther than than vinegar. There's always going to be disagreement, butit's how you handle that disagreement. If we are aligned, we both just wantthe company to succeed, and we just got to figure out where there'sdisagreement, but yeah I mean it's not in a position to basically if a numberis thrown it at me, I'm going to from a competitive standpoint, I'm going tosay I'm going to get there and I'll go and do what I have to do to get there.But that's not necessarily the to me. You need to make sure that that youhave the elead flow, the product in the right team to get to the Goaf, there's,obviously something special about Mark Jacobs. Besides your humility and thesharing of my last nameansai. Yes, it's true, you have a very special ast name.I didn't prep you for this question, but what do you think your super poweris? What do you think you interact with so many different sales leaders, soeven beyond again you're such a humble person you're such a taring person, butyou obviously think there's something that you're doing that special ordifferent, or I think you hopefully have some of that awareness. What doyou think it is? What is it the thing that you think you're great at in aunique and differentiated way? I think I'm very good at making sure that I canbuild the right team and, as I said before, that's the most important thing.If I don't have the right team, it doesn't matter what my super power is,I'm not going to be able to be successful, but I do think that I'm, Ihave particular streigths in making sure that the culture is strong on thatteam. What I mean by that is it's mostly around transparency and workingtogether and winning together and losing together, sometimes, buthopefully not that often, but transparency is a big recipe for me forsuccess. It's about setting the right expectations were the team. People arewhen they know that you're up front and and transparent, they don't worry aboutgetting bindsited and that's extremely...

...motivating and then also bringingpeople into the decision making processes on big decisions at that aregoing to be rolled out. I'm not a fan of rolling out decisions and and makingthe team live with them. So I want them to be part of the decision makingprocess. It may be that their feedback et, you know, gets pushed aside and westill do what wewere planning on doing but there's a big difference for peoplewhen they realized that they at least had some say and what happened in thedecision, whether whether it went the right way or not, and I think that thatcomes into what I was trying to get to on where I think my super power is:it's just understanding how to motivate people, it's understanding making surethat they know that that you care about their success and getting people towork together to to hate a comingal. I think that's a really really importantpoint so we're going to. I might come back tothat later. We want to do last question before we go into a little bit of aquick fire around so imagine, Youre Twenty five year old up and coming SGRor count executive. Listening to this right now, what advice would you givethat person if they say mark, sounds like an amazing person? I want to modelmy career after Mark Jacobs. I want to be the sales and SUCCESSFLLU TOR atthese incredible companies. What advice would you give them? Take it one stepat a time coming in as an SDR, and I think it's a great goal to want to bethe SBP of sales or be the CEO, the company. I do love. I actually read abook that talked about that with Bil mcderman on winners, dreaming talksabout that and how how when he first interviewed at Zerox right out ofcollege, they asked him the question of what he wanted to do next and he saidBCEO, and I thought that was that was really cool. But in this regard, what Iwould say is make a lot of mini goals right and make sure that you're in aplace where you know that, if you do what you're supposed to do, you canachieve those goals, because not all companies are like that, not allfounders, not all cultures at companies, allow you to be successful, make sureyou're at the rightright company, where, if you do bust, your ass and you workreally hard, and you see success that you're going to be able to get to thenext level at at least a reasonable time, don't be entitled but work and dowhatever you need to do to get to the next step and those next step startedding up really quickly and before you know at you're now you're at the nextthat dream role that you're trying to get to. I think that's great advice. So,let's move to some some more tactical questions would call this the quickfire round. Who Do you think SDR should record to marketing our sales? I dothink it depends on the company, but for me I've always been a believer thatthe SDR should report into sales, not for any other reason than just fromgenerally who is on the management team in the sales organization, as opposedto a marketing organization, and at least the sales organizations andmarketing organizations that I've been a part of sales is much more gearedtowards the coaching and managing and motivation of SR roll. Of course,alignment is with marketing is extremely important, and you know ifyou don't have that alignment, then you're not going to be successful, butit would have to be a very marketing leader and marketing management thathas sales expertise in my mind, for them to be able to manage and motivateSDRs. How does your quota system work do Youe? Do you believe in monthlyquotas, quarterly quotas, annual quotas, yeah and again that's going to dependon the size of the deal? How big the quotas are, what you're trying toaccomplish so I'll just use CBNSITES as an example, because it's h the closestthing to me right now. I always believe in monthly, definitely monthly. Atleast from a tracking perspective right, you don't want to I've, been inorganizations where your goals are annual or theyre quarterly and andyou'r banking on a relyant on doing a lot of stuff in the last couple weeksof that quarter or that year I think monthly from attracking perspective,butcorderly from a comperspective and a performance perspective at CBN sites.We have our account executives, have quarterly compensation, but we do havetracking bonuses to motivate them to at least stay on track. Okay, that'sinteresting, and are you? Are you...

...willing to share what the actual quotasare for a few folks on the team? Sure our quotas are it's going to comeacross as high, but it all depends on on the average deal size right and theyou know, like you know the math. They have to put into figure out. What's arealistic quota last year our quotas ere much lower than they are this year.We based our decisions for quota on last year's average deal size, not ourfuture average jeal size, and so you can get yourself into trouble when youraise quotas and you try to base it on where you expect the average easize tobe because it's tough to get by ind from the from the team. But if you're,at least using past clothes average deal sizes, it's hard for an accountexecutive to argue that it's unrealistic for them to hit those goals.So for us we break our team and we don't have a small market team becausewe don't sell into the small market. So everybody on my team is selling into anenterprise. Large companies, mostly global two thousand, and a lot of focusunfortun five hundred, but one of the things with our pricing model is thatwe don't sell into the enter entire enterprise at the same time we'reselling our package into team. So let's say a strategy team of five people inyou know in London, or a innovation team of five people in San Francisco ata big bank and what ends up happening is we have those enterprise companiesthat were selling into, but the process can end up being a lot more like amidmarket type of sales, processand and sale cycle. So for us, R, counexecutives right now are broke into three groups. Oonly, a three isgenerally is only actually acountig executives at that's came over frombeing SDRs and there their quotas right now are on a monthly basis, there'rsixty thousand dollars, one hundred and eighty thousand for quarter. The nextgroup of the canexecutives we have are at eighty five thousand fer month andthen our most senior account executives are at a hundred twenty thousand amonth or three hundred sixty thousand a acort, and so I think I've, my math isprobably off but somewhere in the neighborof one point: four million ayear, if I'm not mistaken, for the most senior account executives, it's morethan that, it's one on Penty, a MON foches, no morethan that yeah yeah! That's right! One point four: four, that's correct! Whenyou're in sales, you got ta good at multiplying by twelve, exactly so really quickly. What's in your stack,let's face tsome love to some influencer, some vendors and somepeople that are out there, making things that you guys use in love. Sowhat's in your salestack and what technology are you using all right? SoI'm going to start off since I am at rainmaker right now and I do loveThisto Com fo, the sales off company, an I had, I ad put it in at at at greenhouse and thenwe just I brought it in at CBN sites. I think the company is fantastic. I thinkthe platforms great so sals Loff is a big part of our of our platform of ourstack. It goes towards our mission, F or goals of not spamming customers, butactually personalizing at scale and sels off. Does a really good job withcades. To do that, a couple of other tools that we've been using, obviously,sales forcecom linked in o our big parts of our sales process. We havesome home grown things that we're doing from a CS perspective on engagement inscoring, but from a outside bender. We mentioned a coaching culture, one ofthe first things I brought in at at CBN sites, wwas Gong, which is a great toolfor for recording and listening to and coaching off thofe calls. We also justbrought in Garu, because one of the pains that I was saying at CBN siteSoas, we had a ton of great content, but no one could ever find it so gurhelps us to organize that content very Eslyn, and then recently we brought inClary, which is a tool that we use on top sales force, and it helps us tofodcast more accurately. That's interesting is that, like an insidesquared competitor, I think it is, but I'm not a hundred percent sure wherethe differentiations I've used insight squared the way that I looked at insidesquared inside spard is a great tool...

...and really enjoyed using them, but itwas more geared towards management being able to look at the reports,whereas Clary doez L is focused on the account executive being able to usethat as their sort of point rather than using sales force account executives,get a really good experience with it and as sales management we can see.What's going on from a forecasting perspective, that's great thank youinfluenceers, who are some of your mentors, who is some of your favoritetpiecof sales that you know that influenced you and that that you relyon to this day? Well, SAM! You are one of my biggest inflators in Mexas. You did notpay me to say that I think we have a really good relationship and you knowbounce some stuff off of each other. So I will. I would be remiss if I didn'tsay that you were, but I also have a person that I workd with a while backthat S, as remained as a mentor of mine, Jeff Miller, who was a WHO's mostrecently. The BPSSALS hortmorks is a big mentor for me on a lot of differentareas that are sort of outside of the startup world. I can name a lot but thewhole New York City, O revenue, collective. You are a founding member of the NewYork revenue, collective, two, more questions, and I thank you so much foryour time. One is you know who ou some of your favorite founders, who are thepeople that are inspiring you that you look to for leadership going back toJos sales loft again, I am not doing this. There's no one from sales loft atwin. Kno were Ramar in an empty hotel room, Theri E. No one e sounds lofright now, listening to me, but it's always been this way. You know fromthemday Maccy Portra, you know, is very aligned with the type of culture thathe's built it sells left. I also very much appreciate his focus on raising upthe sales profession and you know, obviously with a platform like his. Itmakes sense to do that, but he's so authentic when it comes to that so he'sone of my favorite and then of the ones. I don't know it's hard to go, go withanyone over Jef Bizos, just because of what he's done with Amazon. I recentlyread something either I think was on twitter or maybe it was an article, I'mnot sure, and it resonated really well with me that it's important that Ithink it's really important. F R. From a success perspective and it's Thait,most decisions he had said should be made with only getting about seventypercent of the amount of information that you wish you had. If you wait toover ninety percent you're going to be too slow as leaders, we have to be ableto quickly see when we've made a mistake and be able, to course correctvery quickly. So I guess his point was being won't hurt you if you can coursecorrect, quick enough, but being slow can become very expensive or it canbecome too late in what you're trying to accomplish. I could not agree withthat more. I have a framework for that. I call the decision Coefficient lastquestion. I didn't brief. You on media so give us some books that areimportant to you, some podcasts when you're going about selfimprovement aud.Sometimes you listen to e books. So tell us some of the great books thatyou've been reading recently are some of the great learnings that you know,podcast places that you found inspiration and new knowledge. I findit all over the place right I mean you had mentione the Ebook that I listenedto and I mentioned earlier in the conversation just happens, I don'tlisten to a lot of books, but in this case I listen to winners dream byBilmcdermid who went from owning a deli as a young man to running sap com SCO,and I thought that was a really great book. That talked a lot about gettingstuff done in goals and what you have to do to motivate not only yourselfwith the people on your team to hit your dreams. I listen to a lot of youknow: Sales Hacker stuff. I listen to a lot of the talks that you have withtefolks on the new revenue lective, but yeah I mean I don't have a specific one.That M I'm doing. I read rcbin sites newsletter, which I thinks fantasticand entertaining but yeah. I just make sure I'm just constantly making surethat I get enough information, but it's not necessarily from the same source.That makes sense last question, so you guys are hiring if people want to getin touch with Mark Jacobs to seek you...

...out as mentor or oply for a job arethey allowed to, and is there a medium linked in twitter email that you preferthat people reach out to you, I'm fine with any means of reaching out to me ifit's about finding a job or about work, potentially working together. My emailat CBN sites is M. Jacop SAT CBN Sitescom I am on on Lenke in as well. Idon't know off hand with the lingth in when my linked in we can find it yeah.It's marked with a seeg yea, more CE TESE and SHAKOPS, and e ets, switseabeinside, so feel free to reach out to me through linkdon or through myemail dress mark. Thank you so much for joining us today. It's always an honorand a pleasure to have you in the Sales Hacker Recording Studio, Aka the hotelroom that we're in you're a good friend, but also your an incredible manager, aleader, Ind Mentorr to so many people in the New York community. So thanksfor joining us thanks Sam appreciate you having me, this is Sam's corner what a fantasticinterview with Mark Jacobs, always in sightful, and always a good person totalk to one of the things he said, which I think was really important. Ishe doesn't make decisions in a vacuum with his team, he involves his team inthe decisions and that enables them to have accountability and ownership witheach of these big important decisions, and they can feel part of the process.So then, when he rolls out the decision, they all feel connected to it. I'veseen so many companies go into a room with the senior executives develop anew COMPPLAN, a new lead rotation for the SDRs, a new framework for howopportunities are qualified, a new lead scoring system that places differentemphasis on different parts or activities within the marketing funnelwithout asking the people that are actually doing this every day. So, ifyou're out there in a leadership position, I really encourage you ifyou're thinking about, for example, building a new cop plan use the team tobuild that complent. They are not so selfinterested in selfinvolved that youcan't rely on them for their insights to help build something that's going toaddress their concerns and align the company with the goals that needs tosucceed for growth, so that was dam's corner thanks. So much for joining inand I'll talk to you all later to check out the show, notes, seeupcoming guests and play more episodes from Oure, incredible ineup of salesleaders visit sales hackercompodcast. You can also find the sales hackingpodcast on itunes or COPL play. If you enjoyed this episode, please give us ashare, Om, Linkdin, twitter or any other social media platform and finallyspecial thinks again to this month's sponsor at no Seymour at INFO dot, node,dot, io forward s sales tacker. Finally, if you want to get in touch with me,find me on twitter, at Sam, F Jacobs or I'm linkon at Lintoncom, Inslah, samf,Jacobs, I'll, see you next time.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (347)