The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

6. The Secret to Incredible Sales Management and Coaching Culture w/ Marc Jacobs

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

On this episode of the Sales Hacker podcast, we talk with Marc Jacobs, SVP of Sales and Customer Success at CB Insights about the secret to incredible sales management and building a coaching culture.

One, two, one, three, three, quote. Hi everyone and welcome to the Sales Hacker podcast onyour host Sam Jacobs, founder the New York revenue collective. Before we start, a quick thank you to this month's sales hacker podcast sponsor node. NodesAi Discovery Platform, can understand the meaning, context and connection between any person orcompany by proactively surfacing opportunities that are highly relevant and personalized in real time. Note is creating an entirely New Paradigm for sales and marketing professionals to growpipeline and accelerate revenue velocity. Visit Info dotnode DOT ioh forward sales hacker tolearn more. And now on with the show. Everybody. It's Sam Jacobswith a sales hacker podcast. I've got Mark Jacobs here with me, sepof sales success from CD insights. We're so excited to have you. Welcomemark. Thanks Sam. I'm happy to be here. Appreciate you having me. You are one of the best sales leaders in New York City. Youbuilt a great business from greenhouse. What we want to first do, though, is just get a little bit of your baseball card stats. So giveus your title really quickly. I am the SVP of sales and customer successat CEB insites. Awesome. And so tell us a little bit about whatCeb insites does. Yeah, so CEEB insights. We have a platform.We we aggregate lots of data on DC patents, media tention, that sortof thank for machine learning and with the analyst that we have on the team, we try to predict to our technologies going. We deliver that to ourmostly very large customers in a platform and they use the platform to try tomake strategic decisions either in their innovation teams or strategy teams. That's those sortof roles to make sure that they're not the next blockbuster, the next blockbusterbeing the company that is that becomes obsolete through an obsolete business model. It'snot the business model, it's just not understanding that distruction was was coming tothem and they they didn't see it coming and they paid for that. Okay, seeb in sites, what's the revenue range of the company? We're somewherein the thirty to fifty million dollar range. Perfect. And then you're running salesand success. I am so tell us how big is your organization?So we have the company itself. We're we're closing in on almost two hundredpeople. The organization, the sales and Customer Success Organization, were at aroundseventy five people, growing responsibly, but but rapidly as well. And youguys, if I'm not mistaken, and you've said this here at the conferencethat we're at, you guys have doubled each of the last three years.Is that accurate? Yes, I got to see B insights only a littlebit under a year and a half ago. The company was doubling at that timeand we doubled in two thousand and seventeen as well. Congratulations. Soone of the questions I ask is what is the amount of capital raised forthe company that the sales leaders that I interview are working at? You've gotan interesting answer to that question. Yeah, you know, I've been on bothsides of the companies that raise a lot and don't raise a lot.What was really interesting to me about CB in sights and what I've found tobe extremely valuable in working at CB in sites is that, prior to megetting there, CB in sight said bootstrapped to sixty six people and then theyend up raising ten million dollars and unbelievably haven't even touched any of that.They proved that you don't have to raise venture capital in order to be successfuland and so revenue to is the best source of funding for us and it'sthe cheapest. Obviously it's also the best validator. Our CEO on and alwaystalks about that. As I said, the company has doubled in revenue everyyear and that's without using any any funding. So that's amazing. We're going tocome back to that. Breaking Down Your Organization so we understand it.So you run customer success. You have the traditional framework across the seventy fiveto eighty people, so you've got SDRs, you've got a count executives. Justwalk us through a little bit of the ORC charts so we know thescope of the function that you're responsible for. Absolutely. So I haven't a reallygood sales ops team, which I thinks through essential to scaling and growing. I have the customer success organization where...

...we have a customer success leader that'son my team with a number of managers and customer success managers under them.I have the account executive team with a couple of sales directors that are managingthem, as well as outbound and inbound SDR teams, which has been thebiggest growth we've had on the team. So you've been doing this a littlewhile. You've got a large team. You know, I first got toknow you when you are building Green House, which is another of the best andfastest growing companies here in the city. But how long have you been doingstartups and sort of give us a little bit about your background and yourorigin story? Sure before even going going back all the way to college atso I graduated from University of Delaware. I didn't really know what I wantedto do. Like a lot of other people like sort of wasn't ready toface reality and I end up going to law school, which I thought wasthe best way to avoid the real world, and my father seemed to like thecareer a lot. I wasn't really that into it right from the beginning, but I knew that I would be getting whatever I was doing in lawschool. I was going to be who would be. I'd be able toleverage that going forward. I graduated, I practiced for a few years.It wasn't something I was passionate about. I moved over to business development.That was something I started right away to feel a lot of passion right in. My first experience in a startup was at a company, a smaller company, a privately held company, that was selling into tax and accounting teams inbig corporations. I was an individual contributor over there. Continually got promoted UTill I became vpus sales. That was my first VP of sales role andwe got purchased by Thompson Reuters. I was at a few other taigh techcompanies before landing at greenhouse, but at greenhouse I I came in, Ispent two and a half years over there and we ten xt revenue in thosetwo and a half years. Wow. You know, I'm curious because we'vegot a lot of folks that are probably in a similar position to where youwere at back at the beginning of your career. How did you know?And I think that company, you've mentioned it to me in the past,cross border solutions. Yes, was the company it that sold into tax andaccounts and got acquired by Thompson Reuters. How did you know? You saidyou felt like it was a better fit when you're doing business development there.How did you know? I guess you mean a better fit from practicing lawfrom your personality and you said you landed there and you felt more comfortable andall of a sudden you were high performing individual contributor. So was it justa natural fit? Did they give you training where you identified with some ofthe concepts? You know? Going back to it, I don't know reallywhat the reason was. I could say that the reason I was comfortable isbecause I was being successful. I don't know if I was successful because Iwas comfortable, but when you're in sales and your and you're doing well,then that that makes the job that much better. I don't know that itwas training. I don't think I got a tone of training there. Itwas a lot of real world getting thrown in the fire, doing a lotof things and learning with the company. I was given a lot of autonomyas an individual contributor to try different things and and to negotiate and just itworked out. And you mentioned not a lot of training. One of thethings I've heard about you through back channels. I heard it from Dan Brown,who's that we work who's brother, Mike Brown, works under you,who said you know, you spend an hour with him in a pod lastyear going over discovery process where did your sales training come from, besides justlearning on the job? How are there specific methodologies that you use? AreTheir specific consultants? How do you think about the act of developing a structuredsales process when there isn't one? Yeah, I mean it just comes down tome the the actual structure itself, the process itself, those are allall important, but which one you choose is not really going to decide howsuccessful it is. What's going to decide how successful it is is, firstof all, getting by in from the team and, second of all,making sure that there's a process in place, there's a cadence in place so thatyou can have an actual coaching culture. And in order to do that youhave to continually be coaching on whatever it is that you've been teaching.So I was fortunate enough in at greenhouse to have a really good enablement personwho is great at helping at training once they got on boarded, but continuallytrained, and then as managers and and...

...leaders, we would continually work withthe people on our team, and same thing at Seb in sights. It'ssomething that that I did bring to the organization was a coaching culture where thereis a cadence on from a one on one perspective, from a team perspective, both on an onboarding, both from on boarding and ongoing training. Soquestion for you. I'd love to dig into this a little bit because Ithink a lot of folks are thinking about, you know, the idea that theylove to be great coaches, they'd love to help develop people. They'rejust not sure to the point of the cadence and and with specifics would behelpful, like sure, what does a coaching Culture Caden CCC? What doesthat look like? For example, at CB in sites? How many oneon ones? Are there evening sessions? Is it all at Hawk and whatis the role of the enablement person and facilitating all of that? Right,so it's across the board. Has To be a bought in throughout the organization, so it's not just one person or you know, the enableman person isdoing a great job of setting up setting up trainings and making sure that peopleare getting the right on boarding sessions, those sort of things. But ithas to be across the board. So for us at CBING sites, it'snot only the manager that's managing the either the SDRs or the account executives it'spod captains, it's The a's coaching the SDRs that they're working with. Wehave alignment between our a's and our strs. It's across the board. Even thismorning I saw, I wasn't in the office today and at rain maker, but I saw that there was a seven, an optional thirty meeting thismorning being run by one of our account executives on something that they've been successfulwith. And then I got a picture sent to me at forty five thismorning showing fifteen account executive sitting in that room at thirty and I thought,you know, that shows that that not only do we have the right process, the right people working, but also a motivated sales force. It's broughtinto wanting to be coached and wanting to be better. That is incredible.I can speak from personal experience that I've had difficulty getting people in at thirtyin the morning and a full house at dred and forty five. How doyou do that? You know, one of the things that you talk abouta lot and panels, and you and I have talked about offline, ismotivating a quote unquote millennial sales force. What are your strategies there and howdo you approach that the whole millennial thing. Sometimes you hear you know, theyget a bad name and a lot of in a lot of circles andthey get in my opinion, millennials are are the best generation that we haveif you pick the right ones and hire the right one. So when Isay that, I mean you do have this perception that sometimes there's entitlement,but I would argue the other way is if you find the right group ofmillennials and you hire them the right way, they're going to be willing to workand do whatever is necessary to get shit done, particularly if you're willingto give them some goals that they need to reach and some rewards for hittingthose goals, not just not just compensation, but actually career ladder stuff, promotionfrom within, proving that if there is a place for them to progresswithin their career and you give them what they need to do to get there, they're going to get there if you hire the right ones. So youwere one of the first people, you know, a couple years ago thatsort of hammered the concept of career ladders for me. But you also mentionedinterviewing the right way. Do you have a point of view on the rightway to interview and maybe the right questions to ask or the right profile whenyou're looking to hire the next ae or the next SDR for see the insights. I look at it two ways that there's two main things that I focuson. One is is from a cultural perspective. Everyone talks about culture,but for for what I just said before, with it you have to be ableto ask questions of the candidate to see if they are in that groupthat I mentioned that feels entitled, or are they the type of person that'swilling to do whatever is necessary get shit done, to get to the nextlevel and be successful? That's a really hard thing to uncover, but ifyou have enough people that are speaking to them within the organization that understand ourculture generally, we haven't seen where we've gone wrong in that regard. Theother part, which I think is an easier way and easier portion of theinterview process, is just making sure that you test them in whatever capacity,put them in a similar situation that they're going to be in when they whenthey start the job, and so,...

...whether it's an str we test oursdrs on basically the things that they have to do to be successful. They'regoing to do those things in the interview process. They're going to do aphone they're going to call call, they're going to send a personalized email priorto even coming into the interview process. We're going to test them for coachability. It's a basically, you know, giving them feedback on what they've doneand see how they handle that. And the same thing for an account executive. You can't, I don't believe that you can hire an account executive effectivelywithout testing them and seeing if they're going to be the right fit, theirskill sets going to be right fit for your sale I've seen way too manytimes where top sales reps at certain companies go to other companies and they justcannot succeed in the same thing. I would say for some sales executives thatthat aren't in the right fit, they can come to a company and besuccessful if that's the right company for their for their scoat skill set. Arethere any red flags that you have in the interview process? One of mine, I have to so I'll hopefully the witness a little bit. One ofthem is on a phone screen. If they don't answer professionally, that's ared flag. So I say I call them, they say hello and insteadof high this is Sam Jacobs. How are you? And then the secondthing is whether they're sending follow up emails. That used to be handwritten, youknow, mailed notes through the mail. That's, I think, an unrealisticexpectation at this point in life, but I still see a lot oftimes that people don't even send a follow up email. Any red flags likethat for you through the interview process? I will say the second one thatyou said is it would definitely be a red flag for me if there's nofollow up coming back after the interview. You know in sales follow up iscrucial and if they're not going to take the time to follow up on theconversation, I'm not sure how we can expect them to follow up with theirprospects. Some other ones that are red flags for me are if I hearanything in the interview process where they're not sure that sales is what they wantto be in, that they you know, like they maybe they're they're interviewing atthe company sales they look at as an entry into the company but youknow, they're not sure that that's the career that they want, then that'sa red flag for me as well, because it's, you know, salesbeing an str if you're hind for us, you're a it's a hard job andyou have to be motivated and you have to want to succeed as asalesperson. There's nothing wrong with changing your mind a year into it, butif you go into the process not sure if you want to be doing sales, that would be a red flag for me. Yeah, I I totallyagree with you. So let's reflect on you know, you've been doing thestartup thing for a while and particularly the last two roles you seem to havelanded on incredible companies. So what do you think are the biggest lessons learnfrom, you know, the last fifteen or so years? Obviously you figuredout how to hire and you figured out how to motivate people, but whatelse have you learned? I could list ton of things, but I thinkwhat I said before, just if you're going into a start first of allin picking the right start up to go to. There what I've learned is, you know, the founders are essential. You have to be able to notonly have smart founders, but you have to build aligne with whatever theirvision is, and I had that both from a greenhouse perspective and now froma CB insights perspective. I'm fortunate in both of those companies I was fortunateto have alignment with both with the founders of those companies. What does alignmentlook like and how do you figure out whether you're aligned with the founder ornot? I mean, it depends. For me it was about how theywant to grow the company, what they're looking to do, how they wouldlike to hire, what their belief is on the culture of a company andthen also, obviously, you know, from a product perspective. You know, we can talk all day about product fit and I'll part of market fitand all that, but for me I'm not even talking about that for now. I'm talking more about just the feeling that you know you're going to behandinhand working with this founder or these founders on a daily basis, trying togo after some some really aggressive goals and making decisions together. And if you'rein the interview process and you don't see yourself being able to work daytoday withthose people and learn from those people, then then that's going to be aproblem for you. So I was fortunate. I learned that that's a really importantarea. I didn't learn it the hard way like some others have,but I was. I have learned that...

...that I'm fortunate for the choices thatwere made there. Another thing is just we talked about the monnial sales forceand motivating them. I think that's really important. I think from an investingin training perspective, you're not going to be able to scale if you don'tinvest early. We as and at CB insights, I mentioned before. Youknow, promotion from within. All of those things we're relying we're doubling downon hiring younger sales are less experienced sales people and expecting really large and bigthings from them, not only right now but but soon in the future.And so if you're going to do that, you damn well better provide them withreally good training, on boarding and constant coaching. If you don't,by the time you realize it, it's going to be too late. Oneof the things you've been talking about, and I've seen you talking about onsocial media and you and I were just talking about it, is you feellike you've cracked some kind of code when it comes to the success rate ofSDRs. I think a lot of folks advertised, and certainly I've advertised inthe past, that you know, we've created the ladders and the career progressionand you come in as maybe an inbound SDR and outbound str that's obviously atopic of debate, but you come in as an SDR, you spend sometime, maybe you go to str on str tow and ultimately you end upbecoming an account executive. I think a lot of people want it to betrue that those SDRs ramp more quickly and are more successful. I think thebag is mixed, but then I think it's CV insides. It's unequivocally beensuccessful. What do you attribute that success to? It wasn't intentional, bythe way. I mean, you know, I was happy with how you knowother places where we've had these career ladders and SDRs becoming account executives andjust to become an account executive and to start to succeed in that career.That was that was a good thing from a coaching perspective and feeling good aboutwhat you're providing to those younger sales reps. but there is a situation where alot of times they get, they become account executives and it takes thema long time to ramp up because if they've never been a part of closingbusiness, they probably in a lot of cases of never heard and negotiation.They certainly haven't been part of dealing with procurement teams. So that coaching.There's a lot of things that they need to be taught and so the rampcould take a while. What we found at Seb insights, and again thiswasn't intentional. It just happened to work out this way and I'm double andtrippling down on it and I would I would recommend anybody to do it thisway. We have our account executives work on named the counts and the accountexecutives are aligned with their SDRs. Generally it's two to two. So ifan account executive as a hundredcounts, maybe they'll provide thirty five accounts to onestr thirty five to another and maybe they'll do prospecting on the other thirty.But what ends up happening is the STR has the opportunity to work with theaccount executive regularly to map that accounts, to look at who we should begoing after and then not only that, but they're involved throughout the process.It's not like they're on every single call that's happening, but they are copiedon every email that's happening. They are on important, some of the importantcalls, whether it be with a procurement or negotiation, but whatever the casemay be. It's making sure that they again, just like it with theinterview process, for it's making sure that they are put in positions and understandingthat what they have to do to be successful by seeing other account executives doit, so that when they step into that role they're not going to haveto relearn everything. In our case it's been actually a huge advantage for thembecause because not only are they able to do those things, but they understandour customers way more than someone that we would bring in from the outside.It takes them a little bit longer to ramp up from that perspective, butthey understand our customers, they know how to prospect, they're already have prospectingmindset and so we've had a lot of success with it. We've had,I think the latest is, eight SDRs that were promoted into account executives andevery one of them hit their number in two thousand and seventeen. Some ofthem actually doubled it. So wow. So here's a common objection to thatstrategy. So, as an aside, I'm a believer in the strategy ofpairing SDRs and a's, but when you put it in, you'll get feedback. What if I get a bad it's bidirectional feedback. What if I'm pairedwith a bad SDR? If I'm an...

SDR and I built a complan thatmaybe include some element of closed business as the incentive comp what if I'm pairedwith an AE that can't close the business from move the pipeline along? Andhow do you address those objections? It's a fair objection, but part ofit is I honestly believe, first of all, we're doing two to twoor no, you're never going to be relying on just one person. Sothat takes a little bit of that. That that out of the equation.I am a firm believer, though, especially when it comes to the AE's, that they are directly responsible for the success of the SDRs in many cases. So the a the SDRs that are successful are successful becaust a lot ofthe a's that they're working with are are working with them to make sure thatthey're successful. That takes, I believe, that, part of the equation outof it. You're always going to have better SDR is in better accountexecutives, but what I've seen is that if you have them work together andthey're both aligned to be successful, it becomes equitable. I haven't had asituation at CB insights where we had the situation that you're talking about where someone'sjust not getting the right resources necessary or not having the right account executive.We also try to make sure that pair based on one senior person to ana and one not as senior person, and we rotate it based on managementsort of deciding how to make it fit best. Got It. That's reassuring. I think a lot of folks are thinking about implementing some of those solutionsand want to make sure they do it the right way. When you lookat success and failure in your current role, and I know that you've got someinteresting ideas about failure, but you know what, do you think thebiggest drivers are from success and failure for my role? I'll start by saying, and you say you know, you mentioned failure and it just made methink of I was reading in in our newsletter last week on in our CEOwrites our newsletter. He wrote something pretty I thought was pretty powerful, andit was about not fetishizing failure. You know, it's failure is one thingthat's somehow has especially with with founders, as opposed to not talking about myrole or sales roles, that failure happens with when you're selling. But failureis sometimes romanticized and when it comes to startups, but the reality is itsucks and you know, and as on and said, founders should not betalking about, Oh, I'll just learn something and I'll go on to mynext thing. You should not want to fail. If you do, don'tcelebrate it. And maybe that's harsh and I don't think sales as salespeople,we always learn. I do think there's times where failure is really helpful,especially if you're experimenting, and you know we get our ass is kicked alot and we do fail. But that question you just said made me thinkof what I read with on him. But from going back to your questionabout the biggest drivers between success and failure, for me it goes back to whatI said before. Hiring the right people that are were willing to workas hard as necessary to get stuff done. That is a huge equation and howsuccessfull you are, no matter how good you are as a sales leader, if you don't have the right people on your team, your there's noway to succeed. And I think also it's about making the team feel likethey're one, that they'll work together they have this and that that goes tothe culture I was talking about before. It's wanting to win together. Wehave a competitive team, but not they don't compete with each other. Weset up competitions, they work with each other and they love when each othersucceeds, and that part of the culture. I think it's really important to tobeing successful. And, like I said, we rely on less experiencedteam. If we don't provide the right resources them, we're not going tobe successful. And then just from an accountability perspective, you know you talkedabout asking about success and failure. I think being accountable, openly accountable andholding your team accountable is the only way to make sure that you're going tobe successful. I've seen in many cases, and I've done in him at myselfin many cases earlier in my career is if you don't hold people accountableand if you you don't move on from people that are not the right fitsor not pulling their weight, that could bring the rest of the team down. And so I think making sure there's Accountabilities and incredibly important thing. Andthen, I know I'm talking a lot, but I should say also from aCS perspective, as I do,...

...oversee both sales and customer success.It see being sights if we can't get our customers engage in the platform rightnow. That's what my focus is on, is making sure that our customers arevery engaged within the platform and making sure that they understand the value ofthe platform and we understand how we can help them. Those are things thatare the difference between me being successful right now and not successful. And whatare you specifically graded on? How are you measured? Always interesting to hearhow a senior leader how their success is evaluated in the organization is it?Is it just straight revenue or is it more complicated than that? It's justshifted as as two thousand and seventeen ended and going into two thousand and eighteen. And for me, the the sales leader, CS leader, it shouldbe old on whatever the the goals of the organization are right. So intwo thousand and seventeen, my main goals were on revenue and then also netretention, and we were able to crush it from both perspectives. This yearour focus is obviously still on revenue, it always will be, but we'respent paying specific attention to gross retention as opposed to net and I'm accountable formaking sure that we see those goals, both not only just revenue but alsomaking sure that our grosser retention is in a really good place. When youthink about building the plan and you know your goal this you're as you mentioned, is to double again and you've doubled each of the last three years.You know you guys are setting very aggressive goals. How do you pick thosegoals and how do you work with the CFO to build those goals? Youknow what's your strategy there? Yeah, so our goal is actually not todouble this year. We are still going to grow aggressively, but we're noteven trying to double this year. What we're going to try to do ishave a seventy five percent growth but then also, as I mentioned, focusa lot on throughout the organization on making sure that our grosser tension is wherewe want it to be and that that includes from a product perspective and includesfrom obviously, from a CS perspective. But in any event, the waythat I work with the CFO. You know, when you think about therevenue plan, you know, and you actually talked a little bit about ittoday and your session at rain maker, you know you can't just take anumber, throw the number out there and then throw the number of Bodies Timesquota and think that you're going to get to there. It doesn't work thatway. You have to be able to build the plan both top down andbottom up. You have to be able to make sure that there's enough leadflow to hit those goals and make them realistic. My philosophy with finance hasalways been sugar goes further than then vinegar. There's always going to be disagreement,but it's how you handle that disagreement. If we are aligned, we bothjust want the company to succeed and we just got to figure out wherethere's disagreement. But yeah, I mean it's not in a position to.Basically, if a numbers thrown at me, I'm going to from a competitive standpoint. I'm going to say I'm going to get there and I'll go anddo what I have to do to get there, but that's not necessarily theA to me. You need to make sure that that you have the leadflow, the product and the right team to get to the goal. There'sobviously something special about Mark Jacobs, besides your humility and the sharing of mylast name. Yes, yeah, that's true, you have a very speciallast name. I didn't prep you for this question, but what do youthink your superpower is? What do you think you interact with so many differentsales leaders, so even beyond again, you're such a humble person, you'resuch a caring person, but you obviously think there's something that you're doing thatspecial or different or I think you hopefully have some of that awareness. Whatdo you think it is? What is it the thing that you think you'regreat at in a unique and differentiated way? I think I'm very good at makingsure that I can build the right team and, as I said before, that's the most important thing. If I don't have the right team,it doesn't matter what my superpower is, I'm not going to be able tobe successful. But I do think that I'm I have particular strengths and makingsure that the culture is strong on that team. What I mean by thatis it's mostly around root transparency and and working together and winning together and losingtogether sometimes, but hopefully not that often. But transparency is a big recipe forme for success. It's about setting the right expectations with a team.People, when they know that you're up front and and transparent, they don'tworry about getting blindsided and that's extremely motivating.

And then also bringing people into thedecisionmaking processes on big decisions that that are going to be rolled out.I'm not a fan of rolling out decisions and and making the team live withthem. So so I want them to be part of the decisionmaking process.It may be that their feedback, you know, gets pushed aside and westill do what we were planning on doing, but there's a big difference for peoplewhen they realize that they at least had some say in what happened inthe decision, whether whether it went the right way or not, and Ithink that that comes into what I was trying to get to on where Ithink my superpower is. It's just understanding how to motivate people. It's understanding, making sure that they know that that you care about their success and gettingpeople to work together to to hit a common goal. I think that's areally, really important point. So we're going to I might come back tothat later. We want to do last question before we go into a littlebit of a quick fire around. So imagine you're twenty five year old upand coming str or count executive listening to this right now. What advice wouldyou give that person if they say, mark sounds like an amazing person.I want to model my career after Mark Jacobs. I want to be thesales and success leader at these incredible companies. What advice would you give them?Take it one step at a time. Coming in as an str I thinkit's a great goal to want to be the svp of sales or bethe CEO of the company. I do love. I actually read a bookthat talked about that with bill mcdermot on winner's dreaming. Talks about that andhow when he first interviewed at Xerox right out of college, they asked themthe question of what he wanted to do next and he said be CEO,and I thought that was that was really cool. But in this regard,what I would say is make a lot of mini goals right and make surethat you're in a place where you know that if you do what you're supposedto do, you can achieve those goals, because not all companies are like that, not all founders, not all cultures at companies allow you to besuccessful. Make sure you're at the right company where, if you do bustyour ass and you work really hard and you see success, that you're goingto be able to get to the next level at at least a reasonable time. Don't be entitled, but work and do whatever you need to do toget to the next step and those next steps start adding up really quickly andbefore you know it, you're you're now you're at the next that dream rolethat you're trying to get to. I think that's great advice. So let'smove to some some more tactical questions. We call this the quick fire around. Who Do you think SDR should report to marketing? Ourselves, I dothink it depends on the company, but for me I've always been a believerthat the SDR should reporting two sales not for any other reason than just fromgenerally who is on the management team in a sales organization as opposed to amarketing organization, and at least the sales organizations and marketing organizations that I've beena part of, sales is much more geared towards the coaching and managing andmotivation of the SDR role. Of course, alignment is with marketing is extremely importantand you know if you don't have that alignment then you're not going tobe successful. But it would have to be a very marketing leader and marketingmanagement that has sales expertise, in my mind, for them to be ableto manage and motivate SDRs well. How does your quota system work to use? Do you believe in monthly quotas, quarterly quotas, annual quotas? Andagain, that's going to depend on the size of the deal, how bigthe quote is, are what you're trying to accomplish. So I'll just useCB in sights as an example because it's the closest thing to me right now. I always believe in monthly. Definitely monthly, at least from a trackingperspective. Right you don't want to. I've been in organizations where your goalsare annual or their quarterly and and you're banking on a relying on doing alot of stuff in the last couple weeks of that quarter or that year.I think monthly from a tracking perspective, but quarterly from a COMP perspective anda performance perspective. At CB in sites we have are our account executives havequarterly compensation, but we do have tracking bonuses to motivate them to at leaststay on track. Okay, that's interesting. And Are you? Are you willingto share what the actual quotas are...

...for a few folks on the team? Sure, our quotas are. It's going to come across as high,but it all depends on on the average deal size, right, and theyou know, like you know the math that have put in to figure outwhat's a realistic quota. Last year our quotas were much lower than they arethis year. We based our decisions for quota on last year's average deal size, not our future average deal size, and so you can get yourself intotrouble when you raise quotas and you try to base it on where you expectthe average deal size to be, because it's tough to get buy in fromthe from the team. But if you're at least using past clothes average dealsizes, it's hard for an account executive to argue that it's unrealistic for themto hit those goals. So for us we break our team and we don'thave a small market team because we don't sell into the small market. Soeverybody on my team is selling into an enterprise large companies, mostly global twothousand and a lot of focus on unfortune five hundred. But one of thethings with our pricing model is that we don't sell into the enter entire enterprise. At the same time we're selling our package into team. So let's saya strategy team of five people in, you know, in London, ora innovation team of five people in San Francisco at a big bank. Whatends up happening is we have those enterprise companies that were selling into, butthe process can end up being a lot more like a mid market type ofsales processes and sales cycle. So for us, our count executives right noware broken into three groups. Only a three is generally is only actually countexecutives that that's came over from being strs and they're their quotas right now areon a monthly basis. They're sixty thousand dollars, one hundred and eighty thousandper quarter. The next group of account executives we have are at eighty fivethousand per month and then our most senior account executives are at a hundred twentythousand a month, or three hundred sixty thousand a of course, and soI think I've my maths is probably off, but somewhere on the n ember aone point four million a year, if I'm not mistaken. For themost senior account executives it's more than that. It's one hundred and twenty a monthfor two is no more than the I yeah, that's right, onepoint four four. That's correct. When you're in sales you get good atmultiplying by twelve exact so really quickly. What's in your stack? Let's facesome love to some influencers, some vendors and some people that are out theremaking things that you guys use and love. So what's in your sales stack andwhat technology are you using? All right, so I'm going to startoff since I am at rainmaker right now and I do love this. Thecompany sales off company. I had it at I put it in at atat greenhouse and then we just I brought it in at CB in sights.I think the company is fantastic. I think the platforms great. So salesoff is a big part of our of our platform, of our stack.It goes towards our mission of or goals of not spamming customers but actually personalizingat scale, and sales off does a really good job with kidens to dothat. A couple of other tools that we've been using. Obviously Sales Forcecomlinkedin or our big parts of our sales process. We have some homegrown thingsthat we're doing from a CS perspective on engagement and scoring, but from aoutside bender. We mentioned a coaching culture. One of the first things I've broughtin at at CB in sites was gone, which is a great toolfor for recording and listening to and coaching off those calls. We also justbrought in guru because one of the pains that I was seeing at CB insights was we had a ton of great content but no one could ever findit. So Guru helps us to organize that content very easily. And thenrecently we brought in Clary, which is a tool that we use on topsales force and it helps us to forecast more accurately. That's interesting. Isthat like an inside squared competitor? I think it is, but I'm nota hundred percent sure where the differentiation is. I've used insite squared the way thatI looked at inside squared. Inside squared is a great tool and reallyenjoyed using them, but it was more...

...geared towards management being able to lookat the reports, whereas Clary does is focused on the account executive being ableto use that as their sort of point rather than using sales force. Icount executives get a really good experience with it and as sales management, wecan see what's going on from a forecasting perspective. That's great. Thank you. influencers, who are some of your mentors? Who is some of yourfavorite vpes of sales that you know that influenced you and that that you relyon to this day? Well, Sam, you are one of my biggest influencersand makes us. You did not pay me to say that. Ithink we have a really good relationship and, you know, bounce some stuff offof each other. So I will. I would be remiss if I didn'tsay that you are. But I also have a person that I workwith a while back that is has remained as a mentor of mine, JeffMiller, who is a WHO is most recently the VP of sales port works, is a big mentor for me on a lot of different areas that aresort of outside of the startup world. I can name a lot, butthe whole New York City revenue collective. You are a founding member of theNew York revenue collective. Two more questions and I thank you so much foryour time. One is you know, who are you some of your favoritefounders? Who are the people that are inspiring you, that you look tofor leadership? Going back to sales loft again. I am not doing this. There's no one from sales loft that we know. Or raymire in anempty hotel room. There is no one that sales loft right now listening tome. But it's always been this way. You know, from the day metKyle portray, you know is very aligned with a type of culture thathe's built it sales loft. I also very much appreciate his focus on onraising up the sales profession and and you know, obviously with a platform likehis it makes sense to do that, but he's so authentic when it comesto that. So he's one of my favorite and then of the ones,I don't know, it's hard to go go with anyone over Jeff Bezos justbecause of what he's done with Amazon. I recently read something, either Ithink was on twitter or maybe it was an article, I'm not sure,and it resonated really well with me that it's important, that I think it'sreally important for from a success perspective, and it's that most decisions, hehad said, should be made with only getting about seventy percent of the amountof information that you wish you had. If you wait to over ninety percent, you're going to be too slow. As leaders, we have to beable to quickly see when we've made a mistake and be able to course correctvery quickly. So I guess his point was being wrong won't hurt you ifyou can course correct quick enough, but being slow can become very expensive orit can become too late if in what you're trying to accomplish. I couldnot agree with that more. I have a framework for that I called thedecision coefficient. Last question. I didn't brief you on media. So giveus some books that are important to you, some podcasts when you're going about selfimprovement and sometimes you listen to ebooks. So tell us some of the greatbooks that you've been reading recently or some of the great learnings that youknow podcast places that you found inspiration and new knowledge. I find it allover the place, right. I mean you'd mentioned the e Book that Ilistened to and I mentioned earlier in the conversation. Just happens I don't listento a lot of books, but in this case I listen to winner's dreamby Bloo McDermott, who went from owning a Delhi as a young man torunning sap as CEO, and I thought that was a really great book.That talked a lot about getting stuff done and goals and what you have todo to motivate not only yourself but the people on your team to hit hityour dreams. I listen to a lot of, you know, sales hackerstuff. I listened to a lot of the talks that you have with thefolks on the New York I revenue collective. But yeah, I mean, Idon't have a specific one that I'm I'm doing. I read our CBin sites newsletter, which it thinks fantastic and entertaining. But yeah, Ijust make sure. I'm just constantly making sure that I get enough information,but it's not necessarily from the same source. That makes sense. Last question.So you guys are hiring. If people want to get in touch withMark Jacobs to seek you out as mentor...

...or to apply for a job,are they allowed to? And as there a medium, linkedin twitter email thatyou prefer that people reach out to you? I'm fine with any means of reachingout to me if it's about finding a job or about work, potentiallyworking together. My email at Ceb insites is m Jacob set Seb in Sitescom. I am on on Linkedin as well. I don't know offhand with the Linkedin. Well, my Linkedin, we can find it. Yeah, it'smark with a sea guy and mark with the sea and Shacobs at and themets with see be insight. So feel free to reach out to me throughLinkedin or through my email address. Mark, thank you so much for joining ustoday. It's always an honor and a pleasure to have you in theSales Hacker Recording Studio, Aka the hotel room that we're in. You're agood friend, but also your incredible manager, leader and mentor to so many peoplein your community. So thanks for joining us. Thanks, Sam,appreciate having me. This is SAM's corner. What a fantastic interview with Mark Jacobs, always insightful and always a good person to talk to. One ofthe things he said, which I think was really important, is he doesn'tmake decisions in a vacuum with his team. He involves his team in the decisionsand that enables them to have accountability and ownership with each of these big, important decisions and they can feel part of the process. So then whenhe rolls out the decision, they all feel connected to it. I've seenso many companies go into a room with the senior executives develop a new compplan, a new lead rotation for the SDRs, a new framework for howopportunities are called qualify, a new lead scoring system that places different emphasis ondifferent parts or activities within the marketing funnel, without asking the people that are actuallydoing this every day. So if you're out there in a leadership position, I really encourage you if you're thinking about, for example, building anew comp plan, use the team to build that complant. They are notso self interested in self involved that you can't rely on them for their insightsto help build something that's going to address their concerns and align the company withthe goals that needs to succeed for growth. So that was SAM's corner. Thanksso much for joining in and I'll talk to you all later. Tocheck out the show notes, see upcoming guests and play more episodes from ourincredible lineup of sales leaders, visit sales hackercom podcast. You can also findthe sales hacking podcast on itunes or people play. If you enjoyed this episode, please give us a share on Linkedin, twitter or any other social media platform. And finally, special thanks again to this months sponsor at node seemoreat INFO dotnode DOT IO. Forward sales hacker. Finally, if you wantto get in touch with me, find me on twitter at Sam f Jacobsor on Linkedin at linkedincomas in slash Sam f Jacobs. I'll see you nexttime.

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