The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

63. How to Translate Big Company Lessons to Small Company Lessons w/ Ben Wright

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This week on the Sales Hacker podcast, we speak with Ben Wright, Chief Revenue Officer at EAT Club. He’s been around the block. He’s on the podcast chatting about moving from a big company like Yahoo! to a small company like EAT Club. How did he transition from a large to small company?

One, two, one, three, three, hey everybody, it's Sam Jacobs. Welcome to the Sales Hacker podcast in another amazing episode. As you know, I am your friendly neighborhood podcast host, the founder of revenue collective. We are increasingly all over the world today, which is it's May twenty eighth. When I'm recording this, we had conversations with people in Berlin and with Tel Aviv, so we are excited about our global growth. But if you want to learn more about revenue collective, reach out to me and then, of course we want to hear from our sponsors, not today on the show. We've got been right. The chief revenue officer of eat club. Eat Club is a meal delivery platform, maybe an eating platform. I not sure exactly the category that they would use, but it's a really incredible company, serving millions and millions of people and meals food every single year and they're growing really quickly. They're well past a hundred million in total revenue. So it's a or annual revenue. Tote revenue would imply that I'm just adding up all of the years they've been in existence. That's not what I mean. I mean that in any given one year are they are achieving more than a hundred million, which is fantastic, and Ben's going to talk to us about the lessons that he's learned moving from a big company at Yahoo and I ac to a small company and how he translates big company lessons to small company. So it's a great conversation. Now we want to dive in. We want to thank our sponsors. Our first sponsor is Conga. CONGA is the leading end to end digital document transfer nation. Suite with Congo, you can simplify documents, automate contracts and execute each signature so you can focus on accelerating sales cycles and closing business faster. Go to gocom, gocom for salescacer for more information. And our second sponsors outreach, the leading sales engagement platform, the definers of the sales engagement category. Outreach support sales reps by enabling them to humanize communication at scale, from automoating the soul sucking manual work that eats up selling time to providing action oriented tips on what communications are working best. Outreach has your back. Now let's listen to been right from eat club. Hey, everybody, it's Sam Jacobs. Welcome to the sales hacker podcast. We have a great show for you today. Today on the show we have been right the chief revenue officer at eat club. E Club is one of the faster growing, high growth companies out there. They are past the hundred million dollar run rate mark, or will be at the end of the year, so they're growing very, very quickly. Ben Has over twenty years of experience leading sales team, strategy, teams and operations at both big companies and small companies. He spent ten years at Yahoo, but he's also spent time building companies from very, very early stage. So He's got both big company and small company experience. He's an incredible sales leader. been welcome to the show, Sam, great to be here. I appreciate you having me. Thank you. We're excited to have you. So, as we like to do, we like to get your baseball card. We like to contextualize your experience. So we know your name then, right, we know your title, chief for Revenue Officer. Well, we don't know as what does eat club do? Tell us about e Club, the company where you are cro yeah, great questions. I've been here for almost a year, in fact almost exactly a year. He clubs of Food Tech Platform focused on the be tob space. So we're focused on bringing amazing food experiences into the office, right into the the corporate experience at scale. And what that really means for us is, you know, great companies know that providing lunch is of benefit. Is One of the best ways to increase collaboration, improved culture, boost productivity with with the employee base. And if you think about that, the standard options to do that? First and foremostly, people think about cafeterias, right, especially here in the bay area. Well, that's great if you're, you know, a google or a facebook or a you know, a Jillion dollar company. You have, you know, thousands of folks in a corporate campus cafeteria might well make sense, but they're expensive, they're are logistical headache and again, they work when you've got a ton of scale, but not everybody is yet a pajillion dollar company, right. So the other options? That leaves you with his traditional family style catering. Think about what that looks like when you got a couple hundred employees, folks waiting in long lines for food that they didn't order and perhaps doesn't work with dietary restrictions or allergy concerns they may have. Or then there's the individual ordering from consumer APPS, which gets to be a bit of a mess when everybody's ordering, you know, from disport places, and you get tons of delivery drivers shown up over the course of a typical sixty to ninety minute lunch period. So that's worry club comes in. We're a virtual cafeteria. What I mean by that is we've solved the problems I just describe by letting employees order individual meal choices from a mobile APP. They'll see about thirty dishes a day, over a hundred unique dishes a week, and everybody gets to order their own meal and choose what they want to eat. And because of that, you know, we satisfy all tastes, we satisfy all dietary restrictions. The employee can order lunch up to a week in advance or as late as ten am the same day,...

...and then the food all arrives together at lunch time, brought by our delivery drivers put into our racks. All the employees get a notification to their phone letting know exactly where their food is and that it's just arrived, and folks can very quickly get in grab their food and either hang out and, you know, eat as a room for in small groups and talk and discuss some people that may not know, or if they need to head back to their desk, it's a efficient way for them for them to do that. And so we've been around since two thousand and ten. Like I said, I've been here for just over a year. We served eighteen million meals two great companies in the bay area and La which is the two markets that were in. As of right now, this year we're on pace to do about six million meals. So you can imagine that as part of that total a team where I'm got some pretty pretty rapid growth mode. So of that's that's what he club is. That sounds that's a lot of meals. I have a few fill up questions, if it's okay. One of them is is this is it completely subsidized by the company or do employees or do you figure that out as part of the sale? What portion the company employees pay versus a company? How does what are the accout of the economics work? Yeah, great, great questions. So you know, from a sales perspective, we're selling into the company. Is, you might imagine, right so it's not a beat to sea out. It's very much business to business. So we're selling into the company. That detail is part of what will work out in the sales process. But I will tell you the bass bass bast majority of our customers here, and they are in Los Angeles, fully subsidized the meals for there in database. Again, this is you know, I benefit from. This business benefits from and probably why it began here in the bay area. There's definitely a culture here with some really awesome progressive companies thinking about food as as a benefit, not just purely from sort of a dollars and sense productivity perspective, although it is, but really, you know that that sort of lifestyle benefit, that ability to give people in Amenity, that what's them just have one listening to worry about. More so engage a lot with their coworkers, which we do at work and the same way we do in our personal lives, and so the company to really trying to that, to foster and further that particular aspect makes sense. Last my last question is do you propose that your kitchens that are preparing the food or do you have is its source too, restaurants? How does the food preparation come into play? Yeah, another great question. So little of a half of the food that we take out and then, given the twenty plus thousand meals at this point, little of a half of that food we make ourselves in our own kitchen. Will then work with local restaurant partners to help fill what we would describe as many gaps. So in particular areas the maybe more call for beate and hot vegetarian food, for example. Some of that will prepare ourselves, particularly dishes that we'd love to be able to take out the books. We will work with, you know, amazing restaurant partners to help meet that particular among some of those dishes that are more tricky or perhaps more sort of ethnic or specific in nature, those, those are great candidates to work for local restaurant partners. And so that that combination of both are inhouse as well as working with restaurant partners where it makes sense to do so. It is part of what lets us be really, really scalable and still provide that high quality food experience at the type of scale that just described. Actually, the logistics in the operations, which I have entirely zero to do with, a really much an amazing thing here in our business. Yeah, I mean it sounds like a anytime food and food preparation comes into play, logistics of sourcing and preparation and delivery are going to be perhaps one of the more fundamental aspects that need to get figured out. So e club is raised about forty six million. Is that right? And how how large is your team? So my team, so let me tell you what my team consists of. I have all of our sales functions across bay area La and then an enterprise team that we stood up about six seven months ago. Having a ton of traction actually with some of those bigger companies who do have those full cafetiers. Were finding there's a good spot in the market or in the market for three club. To help that, we have an enterprise team and then bay area Los Angeles account executives and then str teams in La and the bay area. I also have a customer success functions. I also have our member services group, which will think of those customer service responding to the individual eatas at our particular companies that we serve, as opposed to my customer success team that work directly with the master...

...account holders, the people who manage the relationships. I also have small sales ups function and the man Jine Marketing. So that's what I have. Well, in all that's about sixty folks. For us that's a good number of people. Are you is the sale? Typically, are you replacing an existing subsidized food program maybe it's like a corporate seamless membership or some other platform, or are you convincing companies that they should begin fully subsidizing their employees lunch? Yeah, we do both, I will say, and it's sort of bearis a little by regions. So in the bay area tends to be a lot more than the displacements. The first thing you described. There they have lunch coming at the opposer. They've already figured out that that's a good thing for them to invest them. And then the question is, you know why eat club is opposed to what they come doing? We certainly see that in Los Angeles as well. The S Angels tends to be a healthy number of new launch programs where, to your point, first thing we got to do is explain to someone why, why great companies as starting to spend spend money being their employees. And you know that's sort of the first thing and that can sometimes take a while. That's a lot of insights driven sales approach there and ultimately get to know the various ways you can choose to do this. Might do this would equally. Yeah, got it. Well, let's figure out how how you arrived at this position. Tell us a little bit, like we can hear an accent in your voice, so tell us a little bit about your background and, you know, the journey that you've been doing this, you've been working in you know you've been working for twenty years, but you've been an eclub for just one year. So tell us about the evolution of, you know, of your time to get here. Yeah, so you can. You can hear an accent. I'm I'm not sure what accent, which accent you can hear at this point. So I'm originally from the UK, London specifically, and I came to America in ninety nine. Spent the first thirteen, fourteen years or so in southern California and I think that it is what started to completely pick all my accent to whatever it is right now, which I think is mostly Australian, depending on on who you ask. So I was at Yahoo. Joined there in two thousand. Actually it was a company called go tocom which, in an incredible strategic pivot, became go to. When we drop up calm. Then then that became overture services for any sort of digital media. Need to go back a while. You know, that was the original paid search company. Yeah, overture was where. It's where Google stole certain judgine marketing from, isn't it? So I'm not going to say that exactly, but I will say I do remember the day walking into our office in Pasadena Hang Somebody said, hey, you know, Google, i's a jam Google. Hey, I they just said they're they're going to get a into the paid search things as well. I remember. I think I probably set out loud, Oh shit and sorry. Yeah, if you want to k study and second mover advantage and, I hope, bunch of other stuff. Yes, so we ended up getting the quiet by Yahoo not long after that and then all in a on that journey that was about ten years for me, my friend start to go to till the time I left Yahhoo and I started as an individual contributor at sales guy. I actually joined because go to is launching his first international market, which was the which was the UK and we're absolutely convinced that they needed people with UK accents to help them do that, which at the time I still had, and they quickly figured out that wasn't the case. But that was fine for me because I was already in there and and that began my my sales and it was sort of a hybrid sales count management role at that time, and so I did well in that role. Was Inquisitive and I ask lots of questions, such as really complex ones like hey, what would success look like you as a customer? and that and the Genius Question Been Genie. Right, you're welcome. Everybody right that down. But but it actually is interesting, right, because you know, one of the first relationships I got was say it was a company that used to sell books and now sales everything, and they sat with us for a while and lots of people who had a run up managing that business and hadn't grown it very much. It was a small account and I just remember asking them what would it take in order for you guys to spend lots of money? What would that success look like? What how did Your Business Work? And from that conversation we sort of got to the concept of the cost per acquisition, which today is like yes, of course it's a costper acquisition, back then was kind of a new concept...

...in digital media and shortly that became one of our largest accounts because we figured out actually what was important to them, which was acquiring new customers who had would it for and we could figure out how to do that and not Tomizems to do that. That grew quickly to be a big account. That and a few others. I quickly got my my own team, which was really my first step into management and, like a lot of other steps since, was kind of like do that thing that you do, but hit try and show these other five or six people how to do it and good luck and will check back wed and so that ultimately grow from a handful of customer service reps into fast forward a couple years at yeah, whoo, and that was a large is sort of twenty person team that have really moved into enner sales team and was about four hundred million dollars of revenue, which today, you know, both sort of digital media standards, is not massive. At the time, I think was was was pretty large going back to the early to thousands, and so I think it's large. Just to be clear, I'd like it. I don't want you to be too hard on yourself. I'd like it, but it was real self. That's the self deprecating Brit that's coming out there. You go yeah, no, I would like that. That that would be nice. Still would be nice today. So grow a team and a whole ton of stuff. That sort of happened in there for me and my evolution as manager. Started to figure out some of the things that I still to this day and a few since as I've been you know, recurring theme of sort of being that the guy into a room without a ton of direction other than to go figure it out and and so a bunch of things I learned chapel a little bit from that experience. Let me grow and scale and then moved into more operational strategy roles in the sales organization. By the time I left, yeah, who, I had about a hundred and thirty person team and then headed up to do something completely different, which was a small start up with thirty five people total. I walked in the door in Boulder Colorado, which was really a cool experience. Google Venture Funded Company, Really Smart Folks on the board and it was a great opportunity to go in and really go from huge company to small company. Did Not end up being a crushing home run, but I learned a ton and, you know, after too amazing years and amazing Colorado, headed back to the bay area. It's what folks that I've worked with in my time at Yahoo and you know, this time from southern California to to the bay join the company called I AC, which folks may be familiar with this whole number of businesses from vimeo's at blow at dating sides. I worked on the publishing division, really in strategy and operations, helping by a jump to particular projects, grow that out as we really became more inquisitive in that particular division. Sided adding companies and really worked with the CEOS of those various groups to help them think about operationalize various components of their business books on the revenue side, on the strategy side of things. So I did that up until a little less than a year ago, took some time off and then been joined the club. Like I said, that's twelve months ago. Well, it sounds like things are going wality club, and thank you for that. That history one of the things that jumps out at me is sort of the time that you spent at Yahoo and then you went to, you know, a thirty five person organization back by Google ventures. Then you went to I see. So you've been at big companies and you've been at small companies and I would guess eight clubs probably in the middle, given how quickly or scaling. And you know your team is sixty people, so that's already bigger than the Google ventures company. So when you think about I think there's a lot of probably, I don't know, negative, maybe slightly negative, maybe some confusion around what is the value of working at a big company. But I think from your experience there's been a lot of really good principles and lessons that you can apply from a quote unquote big company like a Yahoo and the in the early arts that you might be able to bring to a very, really stage company. So when you think about what the lessons are that you can apply from a big company to a small company, what a merges for you. Good question. So look, I think the way I've come to think about it, and in part it's wasn't sort of conscious from the outset, but as I look back I realized that what I would describe as the light application of big company. I don't aware it is principles or set of practices. There's a lot of value and a lot of discipline and a lot of smarts that exist at big companies where some of the work that you know, I had the opportunity to do, which was definitely big company work, whilst the the way you're...

...going to go about doing it at a smaller company necessarily is going to have to be different, the principle or the the the thing you were trying to do absolutely could have application and probably does have application at a small at a small company. So you know, I given the example. And by the way, just just to be clear, when I say big company, what I'm not talking about it's like big company bullshit. Like big company bullshit is just bullshit. Big Company, Small Company? What is big company bullshit? Okay, me, and by that land grabbing, politics, people, Empire building. Honestly, I took to me. Look, everyone's going to come up with a different perspective for me. I have never had time, patience or interest in that, which sounds, you know, super heroic and not particularly controversial, right, but that's the type of thing that I have seen at big companies that just made me scratch my head and made me feel like life's too short to want to step over and trample on other people to be successful at this big company and have everybody, yes, really think you're not a super awesome person. And I don't say that to me like that is objectively true or ebjectively correct, but in sort of been right's opinion of things that suck in. Life's too short and if you want to find yourself in an environment with that is what is needed to be successful. I would tell people that's too short. Move on, but mostly because I find that you're probably not going to be. The company probably isn't going to be super successful with that stiff they culture anyway. And so you know, that's that's my for what it's worth, one guy's opinion on big Comfortabul Shit, but there's okay, good stuff at big company. So I give you example. We you know, a a piece of work I did. This was more onund the strategy side, as I was thinking about scaling, scaling the Sales Organization at Yahoo. Write. So big companies think about nonlinear scale, right. How do you? How do you be in a position where you don't have to keep investing at a very linear rate in order to scale your sales team, your support team in particular, is where that comproment place. And at a big company like Yahoo, you know that is a major, major spreadsheet operation with rows and columns of you know, take take a particular function, right, that's one of the main ways you can do it. Drug cost efficiency at a particular functional level. So take a role of account manager role. Okay, what are all the various things that happen in Account Manager Roll? Start to pull those things of parts. That's really break out the various set of activities and the point there is to say, well, not all of those activities have to be done by the same person. Some of those are easier, some of those requireless experience, some of those can be found at a different time zone. What you quickly end up with is the role that was called an account manager is now a matrix of things, of discrete functions that can all be done different places at different cost basis is, which is kind of the really key piece of that. Now, at the type of scale that a big company operates, that can be really meaningful. You can squeeze out seven, eight, ten twelve points of cost efficiency and you times that by hundreds of people who are the same and function, you got something that's really impactful and will let the business scale and nonlinear fashion, which is hoping to do. You can't do that at a small company that they're literally the infrastructure and the people and honestly, even if you went through all of that exercise and you hide in people and consultants to help you push that through, you're probably not a frighting at the same level of scale where it's really impactful and you spent more money trying to do that than let that. You'll see from that. However, the principle there is still an interesting thing that could have application at a small company, where you can think about where I could be hiring. Does everybody need to be, you know, in one particular location? Could I be more efficient there? As I think about the long term plan where, you know, by make it real free club, we're in the bay area, in Los Angeles today, but I intend this to be in lots of other places soon. How do you think about, you know, the nonlinear scaling of your team? Can you start to think about different activities being done by different groups of people? As opposed to assuming everything needs to be done by a generic customer success manager. And so I think you know, for us the answer is is yes, and it starts with sort of a few people, or it starts with thinking about tweaking roles that might let you go higher, you know, more a large and number or of more junior people to do things that don't necessarily quite the same level of experience as you're existing highest performing customers success manages. Maybe that's at...

...a lower cost basis, maybe it doesn't need to be done in in a location it's expensive or you know where you're sort of running out of seats. And so that, to me is just one example of, you know, how you take something that's big company, which is on many scale planning and then think about actually applying that in a very light way to a smaller business that can actually process and absorber it's so is a lesson really that that not all process is bad and that you can take some of the systems and processes that have been developed a big companies to make informed decisions on a very large base and while you don't have to replicate all of them a hundred percent, you can take the ideas behind those processes and bring them to a small company. Is that an accurate sort of interpretation? Yes, that that's exactly that's exactly right, or this is exactly what I think, and I think you know, as you do, that the key, though, is to realize, especially if you know you've been at a big company, you've seen this done at a big company. Understand it's not going to work the same way. So what you're trying to still is the principle of the thing and then think about, you know, as you'r a leader or a team or a function or even an individual, contribute to think about the application, the lighter weight application of that thing to your particular environment. And you know, for me, one of the things that I've one of the things that I found is I've had the opportunity to work with a lot of folks who are first time people managers or newer people managers, and so something that to me seems like obvious but like a relatively simple concept, you might be explaining it to someone for the first time and that's great, like, actually, it's not just great. That's like the most fun thing to do from my from my experience is where you get to bring these concepts. But if I sit there and try and explain this this, you know, eight Tam sort of really complex spreadsheet, it's not only is not effective, is just wrong. Like this just the wrong it's just the wrong approach. So that, to me, is the thing. Not all process is bad, picking and choosing what's right, drawing from your experience, but understanding that just because that's how we put a big company not necessarily going to translate to a small company. And related to that, I'd also counsel the suppress the urge to like bamboos or with complexity. And I'm the smartest guy in the room and I'm the new buss and everybody, welcome to me. Let me, let me bambooze with you with a whole bunch of complexity just to prove how smart I am. Not Not good, that doesn't it just it's just not effective. It's actually not fun. It doesn't make you look smart, but it's easy to do, especially if you're ripping from a from a playbook that you've you've run consistently a larger companies. How do you determine if it's what the right level of simplicity or complexity is? What if you think that you're just presenting the right way to do it. How do you distill? What's the what's a framework that you can use to simplify or just stress test against a degree of complexity that may be inappropriate? I mean I would okay, so I guess another principle begin with the end in mind. That is definitely not original to me, but when someone set it out loud at a training thing is a Stephen Cuby thing, seven habits thing. That stuck with me. So that actually is the first lines. I'd look at what am I actually trying to accomplish it? What are the parameters around which I'm trying to accomplish this thing? If you know, if I've got a team of six or seven people, there's just not enough used to be squeezed out of a really complex operation here, like a really complex set of operations, to ultimately, you know goes, and I'm sort of going back to the example that I just gave you, just not going to get the value out of out of a really complex operation when that is your operated basics or certain people. And so really thinking about what I'm trying to achieve. It the reason why I set off, the reason why I started saying this thing, starting to provide this principle, was because I think we can do a little bit better, or maybe we need to hire a couple of people in a different place. Then I would start up with just that level of not not very complex. Don't know, don't have a perfect answer for that or even perhaps a good answer for that's interesting question. Thanks. Well then, my work here is done. Is this the first time you're officially a chief revenue officers? That right, yes, yes, so tell me about, you know, your first year out. There's a lot of debate and a lot of conversation about we know what is the difference between a VP of sales and a crow and what is the drivers? What are the drivers of success and and failure as a crow when you think about the last year, the learnings that you've developed, what the title implies, if anything, and and how it relates to what your priorities...

...are? What are the key lessons that you've learned that that drive success as the chief revenue officeerity club? So I think for me instrumentation is is really key and I think you know I've been leader's a Chiefer and new office here or other volts work sort of been the going and you know, figure it out guy. To me that is always you know, a couple things. I just touched on one of them begin with the end of mind. Do I have clarity of what success looks like in this scenario? Right, and I'll get to the measurement piece in a second, but the measurement has to be sort of be purpose towards some thing, and so for me that's beginning the end of mine. What does success look like in this particular scenario? Do I know that? Is everybody aligned around that? And really for me, you know, having a clear north start of aligned expectations with the executive leadership team before I then go sort of blasting off on this journey. By the way, that's not like a onetime thing. That is a thing to be constantly revisited. But as I start to sort of tease a part of the differences between perhaps achieve revenue officer role and more of a classic VP of sales role, part of it is that sort of the breadth of responsibility areas that I've described earlier when I explain the things I'm responsible for. But it's also really that like not just hitting a number, hitting a number is a piece of that for sure, but really sort of thinking about the broader architect of what it is that were setting out here to do as a company strategically and do I have alignment on that? Can I then make sure that the more tactical things that I'm responsible for really are working in alignment with that? So that's a lot about communication with the executive team for me, which I am both on that team as well as sort of I like to think of that as my my audience, my constituent as well, where I keep myself honest and go report to to them as my mighty clients as well. So clarity of mission, I think, is really sort of fundamentally important. And then get into the measurement piece right. So once I know what it is I'm trying to trying to achieve, a m instrumented to actually know what's happening, not just are we hitting numbers, but what are the things that the move in my world that ultimately, you know, lead to success or or not success? And for me, you know, I think I think a lot about having a revenue machine. That's what I would like to have and, by the way, just huge, huge caveat me saying these things is, you know, what my experience has taught me. It does not mean that I do or have that at a thousand on the execution of this right. And some of this is is, you know, learned in hindsight when I realize what I didn't have, that I should have had in place and I didn't get in place quick enough, and so it made for some some some tough conversations or some missrs. And now, going back, I now know what I need to do and and sort of it the lens that I look through. But I aspire to have a machine. That means, when I say a machine, I mean highly predictable set of inputs that get you a highly predictable output. If you have that, then you have something that's investable, right, whether it's, you know, at the board level, investable or it's like hey, I need extra heads to go do this thing or even more budget to go do that thing. And so in order to truly know if you have a machine, you have to be instrumented, you have to know and understand how, you know, feel moves through the system of what a rep needs to have in terms of pipeline coverage order for us to hit the number at the end of the month through the end of the quarter and really building that instrumentation for me has been a key component to to success. And, by the way, early on, you know, taking a couple of taking a couple of hits, because I realized then, you know, in hindsight, I didn't have an instrumentation in place. There are there Kpis that your are there kpis that you're measuring now that are surprising to you, that are indicative of success? Or you know, are there are certain metrics that are emerged? Or is everything as you imagined? It's just that you needed to make sure that you measured it, like pipeline coverage, quote attainment, things like that. Yeah, well, so, I think so. I think a lot about triangulation, because anyone metric I found, I mean, other than that, you know, the ultimate metric truth, like did you hit your number? Revenue, revenue, refue other than that, I felt metric. Yeah, kind of, sort of is, but there's a lot that goes into it and knowing why something happened is really critical. They're giving example, right, hey, we hit the number, that's...

...awesome. Do you know why you hit the number? No, I have no idea why we hit the number. Great. So how do the way as a board member, as a CEO? How I have confidence you're going to hit the number again next month or next quarter? Is this a thing that I confessed in? That is to me as a really, really critical component. You actually understand what's happening. A hit the number but I don't know why. It's not much better than I didn't hit the number. But in terms of metrics. So you ask, let me give an example. I since one's recent triangulation. Right. So you think, hey, activities really important. Call volume. It's old school but it's still important. It's some mistake we make it don't make enough calls. So a situation where real life are one of my sdrs makes over two times as many calls as the other str set the other Sdi who's making fewer calls, setting twice as many meetings. There's something really interesting there. So having that sort of level of instrumentation, triangulating on Kpis, both of which are really important, helps to give us an operational learning right. And then it's great to be enabled by something like gone, which we have here and is other other solutions out of the marketplace really really interested to then be able to go back and act. You listen at a level of detail to what's happening on those calls, because you start to then realize some of the some of the real world things that are happening in the system and thus the the things you might want to actually optimize and share right and say, Hey, let's listen to this call, this is a higher quality call, this is more qualified for doing a better job of qualifying the prospect here, and actually let's sort of tease apart what's happening mechanically in this called becomes a great, great way of learning and helping the whole team get better. But it starts because you're looking at, you know, all of these Kpis, putting them together and really start to see what's moving and what's actually moving in the positive way. Do you have a favorite set of KPIS? Is it? Is it maybe you know, activity to like conversion ratios and activity, as you mentioned, or things that you think are really indicative of future performance? Yeah, so time to move deals through the various stages of our funnel is a thing that I'm I'm finding really interesting right now and and you know why? I thought we had that pretty well known and understood and then I've sort of run into some things recently where I realized that it wasn't as good or as robust as I needed it to be. In so we're actually doing a deeper segmentation of our various deal stages to really start to tease that apart, because that that to me is, you know, seeing how things flow through the final and start to get to some level of understanding and ultimately standardization around those metrics. To me is sort of a critical, critical component. So that's that's something I'm particularly into right now which, when set out loud, I understand sounds so blinding the obvious, but it was just sort of this recognition that we were, I wasn't as well instrumental as I needed. We went as Ranula in terms of deal stages as as I want it to be, and so things was sort of saying fairy stagnant in a couple of deal stages and I wasn't seeing movement. That couldn't understand why. I realize it was just looking at it far too fought too much of a big general course level, and so going well granting out deal stages is a thing that I'm into into right now. Interesting. Yeah, is there's we always used to have a stage at the you know, whether it's the demo or whatever you call like the confirmation of value conversation, that happens after the discovery call. And at that point, especially in a more transactional sale, the salesperson's a lot of their efforts are kind of complete, but the prospect hasn't quite made a decision or may not have made a decision or may not be convinced, and so, you know, like the period, the Post Demo stage, you know, was always like a catchall where things would just collect dust and, you know, the reps wouldn't want to close the deal because they felt like they're still an opportunity to get back in touch with the people. Ye, but there wasn't an immediate call to action. Besides, Hey, we you know, do you want to buy this thing or not yet? This is so so that let's go with that. Sam like that. That's that's exactly it, and that's that's what we've been seeing here right with stuff. Will said, I don't want to call it close. Last when I sort of I'm just going to keep it here and I'm put it back to nurture. Of fact I'm sort of nurturing myself and running sequences against it, but I was just sort of missing a whole visibility and so we just sort of gone back from the factor more grandical stages that let me know and understand the stuff's just sitting and I can see week by week movement number of deals and actually even what deals are moving at...

...the REP level, rolled up to the regional level, rolled up to my overall team level. So I can dive into its granularity. But it's so it's another really good illustration of that principle of the you know from from my sort of book of terrible cliches that which is measured is managed. Right, so you've got a whole sort of chunk of stuff that's sitting there not being measured at the grandular level and thus not necessarily being managed. An say, it's not a tall manage, it's not like myselfs direct as answering the heading some of those conversations, but it is just this very real forcing function around you know, knowing and understanding that and then let you know my question. So that now get to that next level of grandularity. Okay, that's interesting. When I look at red pay versus read B, I can see stuffs moving through reppas pipeline red be. I can see the only two new opportunities of you can come in the top of that pipeline and not self prospecting stuff and things are not moving through. What's going on there, and so knowing and understanding that those of the questions that are I will have means that over time those questions sort of get us to answer before they get to be a hope new stop sort of shaking loose and moving moving to the fun len again. You know, if you start to no one understand and can recognize differences and behavior, by right you can actual sales direct. To get to a more granular level, let me go into Gom. Let me see how much time is being spent on next steps, for example, in a call. Do I see a discernible difference here between reps that are able to progress things through the fun leaving? If that's the close lost this is reps were just sense the city. Yeah, thanks, a lot of sense been. We Are we're approaching the end of our time together. This is the part. As a loyal listener, you will know when we like to pay it forward and pay homage to either great leaders, great coaches, great sales people that have influenced us so that we look up to. So when you think about some of those folks, could be a book that you've read recently, could be a great podcast, or could just be somebody that's been really influential in your life. Who are some of the names that come to mind? Wow, early on in my career Yahoo, there's a sales leader guy called David constant here in the bay area who was brought into to lead our revenue organization, I think when we were still overture, and ended up being in running sales it Yahoo. He was for me, a great example of the type of leader that I wanted to be. He also was one of those folks who took a personal interest in my career, and I've since come to find out lots of other people felt that same way. So he did have you know, as a busy, busy guy, did an amazing job of working with people earlier on the career feel understood special, encourage them, help through situations, provided just like a real level of personal interest and I think when you get that early on from executive that's incredibly sort of empowering and and and encouraging, and so he for me as well as just sort of personified good communication, calm, this position, smart guy, good sales guy, but just sort of good human being, good leader that I looked up to and wanted to model model myself after sort of early on. That's the kind of leader that I'd like to be one day. In fact, he was probably the guy that had me start to think about yes, I'd like to be a leader. Like to manage people in ultimately LEA teams, if I can do it. That's sounds. What's this? What's this? What's this guy's name again? David Constant, constant, David Concept, awesome. Yep, many others before we go. I've been lucky and I'd be remiss I didn't call out our car and CEO here at a club, which is going to sound incredibly self certain, perhaps it is a little bit for UG leads as a guy that I've worked with the years and years and actually went back to, I a see, my time in Colorado to go work with and so when he came to to take over e club, is the CEO, that was easy for me to you know, look at this as a as an interesting opportunity to come work with his trade again. Good, good human fune, good sense of humor. Up Be Very, very smart, very strategic, but you know, keeps it like, keeps it moving. A bunch of questions ex layer, and so that's that's good. It's it's sort of keeps keeps me on my toes and ultimately sort of forces that that discipline. I know if I got to go talk to him about something, I have to go show him some numbers. I need to sort of and this is actually sort of how I think about board stuff as well. I like to look at what I'm about to go say and I want to ask myself the questions that I expect that they're going to ask me, which kind of sort...

...of sounds obvious, but it actually requires some discipline to sit there, look at the numbers, literally flip around the other side of the table, ask myself the questions, flip back around the other side of the table and see if I can even answer those sensible questions. Do I actually know why something's happening, not just kind of tell them what's happening? Do I know and understand why? And if I don't, probably the first thing I got to do is go back and look at my instrumentation and realize that I'm not, you know, instrumented like I need to be too. Really, I want to understand what's happening. Makes Sense. Been There's folks out there that are listening that are probably pretty interested in Nie Club, especially given what you're doing in the rate of growth. If folks want to reach out to you, what's your preferred method of outreach? Well, folks can get me on Linkedin, for sure. Actually, I think I'm been right eleven on Linkedin. I just I think I'm the only been right WHO's a cheaper and new officer a club and at least as of right now. So that I'm thank you find me on that or I'm a been dot right at e Clubcom and I would love to hear from folks in the Bay or La around the club and just, you know, folks in general, folks who have practition is in the sales, in the revenue space, county executives in the bay area. Love to hear from those in particular, but just get to, you know, have that connectivity in our industry. For sure. Wonderful Been. Thanks so much for being on the salesaccer podcast. Will Talk to you on Friday for Friday fundamentals. Appreciate it. Thank you, Sam. Hey folks, Sam Jacobs. Welcome to SAM's corner. Fantastic interview with been right, chief AV anue officer for eat club, which is scaling incredibly quickly, serving millions of meals to employees all over the world and all over the country. So it's exciting to see that growth. been talked about the transitions. He worked at Yahoo, which was obviously a very big company. He managed a four hundred million dollar book of business. He's also worked at very small companies and so we talked about some of the transitions and specifically some of the expectations around becoming a sea level executive at a growth company and sort of how to think about it and a couple key points that he made that that bear that bear some repetition. One of them is is what is measured is managed, and so instrumentation and understanding data is really important. I think that's that's somewhat obvious, but you know, he talked about some of the non obvious factors emerging to the top as sort of key metrics to be thinking about. So for him it was how long each deal is staying in a specific sales sales stage within the sales cycle and that length of time in a specific stage being a clear indicator of whether there's a problem with the deal or whether things are moving very quickly and effectively. And so it's more than just, you know, number of lead pipeline coverage, total dollar size of the pipeline, but it's the second layer of data that you really want to understand about the performance of your sales funnel in order to properly manage and execute it. And that's important because one of his his other key points is if you can't explain why the machine, why the revenue machine, is working, then the results themselves don't really matter, which is the way of saying you know, as we've all seen and experienced, you know, if you have that one big whale of a deal that that comes in right on the last day of the quarter, and that's the thing when you look at the bar graph that makes it seem like a very smooth, logical growth sequence, but we all know in the back of our minds that it was that one dealing. Without that deal, things would have look very differently. Those are the kinds of red flags that it's not just about hitting the number, it's about understanding why. Why is the machine working? Where is the predictability? And I think one of the things that he also mentioned is predictability is so important because it's fundable and investable. Right. So when you're thinking about what kinds of companies generate equity value and enterprise value, think about that level of predictability. Can this machine? Can we reasonably predict what's going to happen? Of course that's important in public companies, but it's also important the bigger you get at a private company. The more it's about how much can we rely on this particular machine that we've created, this money machine or value delivery machine, which is what a company is? How much can we rely on this machine to reasonably and predictably and reliably deliver a set of outputs when we deliver the similar and consistent set of inputs? Something to really think about. And then finally, again related to this notion of what does it take to be a cro and what are the key responsibilities when it comes to being a senior executive, it's not just about hitting the number. You know, to men send that time and time to get it's not just about explaining why the number was hit. It's about developing relationships with your peers. Your first team is the executive team and you have to be able to influence other people that don't report to you, and to do that you need to be an effective communicator and it helps to be aligned culturally so that your behavior isn't viewed as being an asshole and so that you can act in a manner that aligns you with the rest of your executive peers. And what you're not constantly creating false adversary relationships between you and other people.

Also true regardless of the of where you are in the organization. You don't just have to be a sea level executive to understand that how other people in the organizations that are not in your department feel about you and think about you and experience working with you is a key driver of your long term success. So this has been Sam's corner. As you know, we of course want to thank our sponsors. Those sponsors are outreach, which is the leading sales engagement platform, and Conga, the leading end to end digital document transformation suite. So thanks for listening. If you want to reach out to me. It's linkedincom forward. Slash the word in for Sam f Jacobs. Please give five star rating to our little podcast anywhere that you're presented with the opportunity, but especially on Itunes, and tell all of your friends about it. Thanks for listening.

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