The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

66. Why Direct Mail Improves Conversion Rates Through Your Sales Cycle w/ Kris Rudeegraap

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This week on the Sales Hacker podcast, we speak with Kris Rudeegraap, CEO and co-founder of Sendoso. We’ll dive deep into the origins behind the business, the developments in event and in account based marketing, why direct mail and sending physical objects improves conversion rates through your sales cycle, and a lot of conversations about how to grow and expand an early stage company as the co-founder and CEO.

One, two, one, three, three. Hey everybody, it's Sam Jacobs. Welcome back to the salesacker podcast. Now today we've got a very special show. In fact, this whole week we've got a special show and it's a type of show that we're going to be doing more and more often. So this is a live recording that we did with Chris Rudy grab who's the CEO and Co founder of Sindoso, which is the sending platform, and so we interviewed Chris on a very rainy night in New York and talked about the origins behind the business, the developments an event and in Account Base Marketing, why direct mail and sending physical objects improves conversion rates through your sales cycle, and a lot of different conversations about how to grow and expand an early stage company. As the CO founder and CEO, Chris also has a background in sales, so it's really interesting conversation. Now the interview is going to be split into two parts. The first part is my direct conversation with Chris, which is going to happen today, Tuesday, and then for Friday, instead of Friday fundamentals, we're going to have the QA section of the interactions where we get some of the people from the audience to ask a few questions and and that conversation goes on for about fifteen or twenty minutes. So a really nice kind of two part live podcast that we're bringing to you for the salesacker podcast this week, and we will be doing more of these, particularly as revenue collective in saleshacker host more and more different type of events with luminaries and prominent people and and we'll be interviewing them and bringing those conversations to you. So we're super excited for it. Now, before we dive in, we want to thank our sponsors. Of course. We've got two sponsors today. The first is Conga. CONGA is the leading end to end digital document transformation suite. With Congo, you can simplify documents, automate contracts and execute signature so you can focus on accelerating sales cycles and closing business faster. Go to gocomacom forward salesacker from our information. Our second sponsors outreach. That's outreached, I owe the leading sales engagement platform. Outreach support sales ups by enabling them to humanize communications at scale, from automating the soul sucking manual work that eats upselling time to providing action oriented tips on what communications are working best. Outreach has your back. Finally, we want to thank some of the people that have written in and that are listening. Randy Post Star. There's two people this week that I'm mentioning that I want to make sure I'm acknowledging that I may be pronouncing the last names in properly, but randy post our, Pozesa R. Thank you for writing in. Blake Johnston, I know how to pronounce that. Austin Kittelsen, feel good about that one. Chris Keio, I think it's Keio, but it's Ko jgh. So, Chris, thank you for writing in. Thanks to everybody that's been listening and thanks to everybody that's that's been a fan of supporting it. If you haven't rated the show, if you haven't given us four or five stars on Itunes, please do that if you can and write a little bit of a comment. It really helps boost the show, I guess on the charts, the important charts.

I don't know. Just do it, because I'm asking you too and I'm saying please, please, do that. Anyway, let's listen to this fireside chat with Chris Rudy grab from Sindoso and thanks so much for listening, Chris. Let's let's first. You know, we talked about a baseball card when we interview our guests, so we would like to know your background. So we know that you're the CEO and Co founder. Yep, we know that your name is pronounced Rudy grap. Chris Rudy Grab, tell us about Sendso, so what is the company? And Give us, in your words, what they do, what you do? Yeah, so we're sending platform that helps other companies send out direct mail, gifts, handwritten notes, personalized swag gifts, really anything you can think of that you want to send to somebody else. And it all started actually when I was in the count executive at Talk Desk. So it's kind of a unique story of being a salesperson turned CEO. Yeah, and I really saw this shift in the market of you can't just send emails and do phone calls and Linkedin. You need to engage and build more personal relationships and offline was a good channel for that. But there really wasn't a platform that totally integrated into your textab and also allowed you to really send anything you want them. So tell us about the origin of the company, what you were at talk desk. Your sequences were not working effectively as they used to. So yeah, so while Talk Desk Guy was manually writing handwritten notes, I would pack some. We had like a swag closet that I would go and grab stuff like this and like send it as thank you gifts. Or someone took a meeting or someone wasn't eating back to me, I'd send we had these like books in the swag closet, so I'd start sending this stuff out. You know, it got to a point where marketing would ask like hey, why are you in the office light packing boxes? So then marketing would be like, Hey, can we help? But then marketing ended up asking me to fill out a spreadsheet and then they would delay it like a week, two weeks, three weeks. But what was on the spreadsheet just like the names and addresses that I wanted to send people stuff, and so they thought they could scale it out for me, but then it was really just a delayed process which made my real time strategy of sending things to people just even worse. And so it was nice because they were helping, but then it was like you know, I close a deals and then they would, you know, I'd want to send something like three weeks later they're already on boarded and be like a thank you for signing or something and was just like not real time. So I really saw, you know, sales is real time these days. Yeah, so, you know, I really saw a need for a platform to support that. So how did you start this platform? Tell us what the let me tell us more. Yeah, the plots. So interested enough. The first thing that I thought that. So first thing that I thought to do was how can I build a sales force APP that would allow you to send something out? And at first it was just starbucks gift cards. So the initial company was called coffee sender and it was just sending coffee gift cards. We actually were one of starbucks as biggest partners. We'd fly up there to starbucks as headquarters. And when I say we, it was me and one other sales guy who kind of got this thing and it was really just a weekend hack thon project that I found an engineered overseas through up work or oh desk to...

...build. And this was like the first concept of it is like what can I send that can be impactful, but I can actually just like build as a weekend project. Building out a warehouse and all the logistics is not something you can put up in a weekend. Yeah, so this was like the first step of it and it was, you know, kind of overnight and got a few thousand people and it just kind of caught on. Or people were just like sending me all these notes. Hey, we want to send more things. We like this like click button and sales force to send things, and that kind of snowballed into thinking, okay, I'm already having these pain points with my marketing team trying to like manually send out this swag and all this other stuff, and I've got this little sales force APP that you can click and send and kind of the the libel went off to marry the to quit my company and started up. So tell us about sendos. So today, how big is the company? Yeah, you don't have to give us confidential financial so you know we're about a run yeah, but a hundred sixty employees. We went to market really in the beginning of last year, so it's only been about a year and a half of true growth. It took us about a year and a half to really build out the logistics, the their software that runs the warehouses that we operate. So not only do we have the software that integrates into you know, sales force, marquetto outreach, sales loft, I look all all those, we've got also software that controls all of our warehouse facilities too. So it's quite a beast of behind the scenes effort. Our warehouse in Vegas is like the size of a costco just rack to the ceiling full of you know, corporate swag, custom boxes, cool gifts, things like that. So what there's obviously you know. The main question, I would imagine, was most marketers ask you about anybody that's using it is what's the Roi? How does it compare to a traditional sequence, that is, phone, voicemail, text message, etcetera. So walk us through. There's clearly a reason we're sending people things. Tell us about the ROI and the statistics behind behind the company. Sure. So when I look at o Roi couple things pop in my head. So one is that you know the same experience that I was experiencing and talk to us where we are manually doing this inhouse. Is actually we found out that you know about sixty percent of our customers today, about four hundred and four or five hundred customers about now. We're also experiencing this pain point in house and there are high, high valued employees, Demand Gen folks, you know, marketing coordinators say it like field sales reps that are packing boxes and spending their time trying to do this. So for some companies they look at it as just a timesave Roi, where it's like, let's not let our director of demand and like coordinate packing boxes, let's let them, you know, coordinate bigger projects and campaigns. So a lot of companies look at us as just a net ro in terms of just labor costs. Yeah, in additionally that, what we're doing is we're also pushing a lot of data back in the sales force for when people are receiving things so that they can track campaign influence. And so now companies are being able to tie in whether, depending on what attribution a model they're using, the see, okay, we hit him with the directmailer or a gift, and then here's how that influenced that opportunity. So that's something unique. Is when people were doing manual direct mailer and other...

...fashions weren't really tying that back in the sales force data. Yeah, so that's a big Roy and then you have any data around that in terms of like campaigns that integrate direct mail versus those that don't? I mean, I think another data point that I find interesting. So we had a customer advisory breakfast a few weeks back. So one of our customers radius. They're mentioning that for about every dollar they spend on Senda, they've seen a generates about eighteen dollars in pipeline that they've tied back. Comparatively, they told us that for every dollar they spend on ads and generates just under two dollars. So when they compared those two channels, even though you think of direct mail, you're like, Oh, I've got to spend money on shipping and boxes in this and that, but for them it was such a big difference and like to pipeline generated. So what's what are the best practices? If you're thinking, I'm sure that there's you know, the squeezy balls are probably not as impactful as something that's specific. So talk to us about best practice is when it comes to integrating direct mail in yeah, your marketing strategies. So I think integrating into marketing strategies. I think it also really ties into how you aligned sales with it, because I think that there's marketing and direct mail that can be done more on like a demand Gen side, or it's just really high top of funnel, just trying to get awareness out. But effectively what we we're trying to help companies do is take that lower in the funnel and say hey, you can use direct mail in real time during the buying cycles. Marketing can say hey, these ten things we want, whether it's a kit of swag, whether it's a printed clatteral, whether it's cupcakes or do logo, whatever it is, there's a myriad of different options. Marketing you can say, Hey, we're good with all these strs or a's you take over and now you can click and send when you want. And so a best practice really is aligning marketing and sales with this and then letting sales send at the right time to the right person and making sure that there's messaging that's before it, during and after, so tying it into a sequence so that you're not just, you know, throwing out direct mail and then hoping people respond, but it's, you know, very tactile in terms of sending it and then there's a response. That's happening, you know, two days later. Tying back into it, as they are a type of direct mail that you found or a thematic, you know, some something that we should be in keeping in mind, you know, handwritten notes versus cupcakes, as you mentioned. Yeah, so cupcakes are one of the best performing like things that. Oh that's now, that was, you know, really yeah, okay, so act food. We should send food to people. Food is really helpful because, you know, especially in large enterprises where it's a bigger buying committee or you want to drum up more, you know, more water pooler, moments when you send there's actually a a I think it's a local coming here, baked by Melissa. That's one of our partners that we distribute through small send these little small cupcakes. You know, it's like who else want some? Then it's like who sent them, and then it's like, okay, now you're talking about this company. So that is work really well. We have a really cool Amazon integration where the you know, the SCR, the A, the CSM, can go in and do some research. Hey, this person went to, you know, Harvard and Plays Golf and,...

...you know, go find some golf balls with the logo on it. And through our integration it sends from Amazon's warehouse to our warehouse. We unbox it, Rebox it with a handwritten note and ship it out. I'll track through like really laughter. So it's really handwritten or is it it being handwritten? Now, so we have anywhere from like a dozen to, you know, twenty thirty handwriters at any of our facility any given time. Oh so it's like a almost full time job. They usually only work for to six hours because I you know, writing notes sounds not a great Chun. Yeah, but it's, you know, got it to maybe some other jobs out there. So so handwritten notes and then and then for you, if we're all thinking about this in terms of going back and implementing its probably a couple other criteria. One of them is probably deal size. Would you agree with that? Because I would imagine it's expensive to send people stuff. So I would say that I would look at more of like tearing out your accounts, and so even if you have a very small a CV, you know, sub five thousand, less than a thousand, there's still things that you can do to build rapport or to break through justice. Sending a normal email, whether it's a five dollar star wrecks card or whether it's a booklet, Printed Booklet with Nice handwritten post it note on one of the pages, something like that, can just differentiate a little bit more than, you know, the next person that's coming in and that is maybe sub ten dollars. That being said, we've done things where we're sending occulus has with preprogrammed, you know, stuff on them, or these boxes that open up and play videos and roll and have like gifts that roll out inside that are, you know, in the you know, three, four, five hundred dollar rang so typically we see companies will have some kind of tiered strategy where it's based on certain account sizes and maybe data and sales force that we can actually limit, saying like if this P if this account isn't tier one, then you can't send that video box. So we can help do some kind of rules and restrictions so that, you know, an Stdr doesn't, you know, send a video box to, you know, some random person. That's not worth it. That would be bad. Yeah, is it bottom of the funnel? Is there what's the perfect time. Let's take mid market sale. Yes, assume a fiftyzero sale, still closed over the phone largely is there. What is the perfect time to send the OCULUS with whatever is inside the Oculus? So I would say perfect time is probably mid like maybe three touches in. So you've after the demo, before the demo. Sorry, I well, I would say that you've before the demo. Okay, if you're trying to get a beating, it's to get the meeting. I think you could get the mean. I think if you're sending an Oculus as now, you could send it as like a post customer were like welcome Kit with some kind of immersive experience welcome welcoming them to your company, and we do do a lot of these customer welcome gifts now that that help like welcome people on board. Yeah, but I would say probably the majority of what we're doing still is trying to break into new accounts. That's probably accounts for, you know, seventy percent of our business got. But I think companies, now that they have a sending platform, are looking at how do they use direct mail, Postfesto...

...or acquisition, so in retention, in you know, renewal, funnels in other product milestones and and we're some of our customers are using it for employees do because now employees are more remote. There's all these we works everywhere, so it's like how do you build employee engagement? So we're starting to see that as kind of a business line that we didn't even expect. Wow, you know, I used to sell the financial services and I think it's a very low threshold that you're allowed to give them things before it I don't know, trigger some something that says it's bribery or some kind of strange and say yeah, provision. So how do you get around that? How should we think about that? I'm sure you've had experiences with enterprises where there's some level that they can't receive beyond, you know, maybe the oculis is too much. Yeah, so I think for that there's certain things that we can help with in terms of just guidance around that. But the financial services is actually there's some stuff around if you're sending promotional products with Swag, it doesn't count as a gift. So there's some breakthroughs like that. Instead of sending just a you know, sending someone a you know, an actual gift that's not branded. So there's different things that you could do there. We can help with some controls on saying, like you can't send this item to the person based on an industry type, field and sales force. So we can help like provision and limit so you don't accidentally make mistakes. But yeah, we can provide gut into different things there. There's also things that are like nonmonetary that help, you know, like the printed collateral pieces, other things like that that I think of. You know, everyone has spent the last, you know, decade figuring out what content performs best online and all this marketing automation that you can use some of that data and some of those pieces now offline again. and Are you feeling tremendous pressure to the one of my question about Urli for attribution. You know, every marketer I talked to is being pushed by the CFO, the VPA, financier, maybe the sales lead into to present the data on marketing influence, marketing generated when it's printed or when it's person is a qr codes? Is it just the act of doing it relative to a sales cycle? Without it, how are we thinking about attribution? Yeah, so one of the things. I mean from a basic level, is just anything. Anyone gets something in the mail that recipient we tag is a contact or a campaign member, into a sales force campaign. I mean you might seem pretty basic, but most companies weren't even doing that has previously. They were just, you know, doing stuff manual and not, you know, like even tagging it and sales force. So I think that's the bare bones you can do. But then it's tying it into certain short URL's, tying it into, you know, certain landing pages, you know, phone number, unique phone numbers or ultimately, you know, because companies are more sophisticated, they're hitting with a direct mail one day and the next day they're calling them in the next day or so something an email. It's a bit of you know, just kind of seeing what works and seeing that, hey, this cadence that included to direct mailers perform better than this candonstad...

...didn't, and kind of seeing that as well. Right, trying to test out different outreach strategies. You. So when were you talked desk? I was a talk desk in two thousand and sixteen and then left at the end of two thousand and sixteen. Wow. So you've been a founder for I mean you, I think you found out a company in college too, so this is not the first time, but this is probably the first time you've run a team of a hundred sixty. But you have frontline experience as a sales executive. You are now running a company that sales the sales people in marketing people. What do you see across the landscape of the evolution? You know, tell us about themes that you see, not just focused on direct mail but like broadly defined as somebody that has a career in background in sales. Yeah, so, I mean I think the MARTECH sales text act is getting bigger and bigger. So people are finding more tools to use. More tools are integrated than ever before. So I think that's a trend that I see is, you know, all these tools working together better. You know, data is becoming easier to find, so targeting customers is coming easier and I think that sales people are also becoming almost mini marketers, where they're having to think a bit more creatively, almost becoming, you know, doing things that differently then maybe they would have before, which was just, you know, Diland for dollars, but now they're you know, how do I break into this account, maybe differently than they thought before? How to give in that? You know, if you look at a looma escape for Marketing Tech or marketing animation or sales tech, hundreds, if not thousands companies. How do you figure out what is the right stack and how do you build the right stack and how do you make sure you're not it's not too many tools, but not too few? I mean that's a that's a really good question. I think from experience, I think that you know, hopefully, if you're, you know, a sales leader, you've worked at the company before, that you use a tool. You know, talk to your peers, groups like this feeding around what's tools are working better than others? Are there tools that are not sent? Oh, so you don't have, let's not name venders, maybe, but like specific pieces of your stack that you were really excited about. Yeah, I mean we're really excited about you know, we've got a data tool that we get get data through lead routing, you know, marketing automation, our sales engagement tool. You know, we I'm I'm a big fan of overinvesting in tools because I think if we can use software to make our employees jobs easier and more efficient than let's do it. So so thinking about I'm just really interested. You know, we called this founder story. So besides just the direct mail piece, there's the fact that you've scaled a company from you and a few other people, two hundred and seventy people what? And you seem like a relatively young person. Yeah, so it's all relative. Of relative to me. You're young. Tell us about that experience, you know. Yeah, I learned. How much money have you all raised? We raise thirteen million. Okay, so that's not a crazy amount of crazy. amounvironment. We so my bootstrap to beginning to try to focus just on since when it was coffee sender. Yes, we...

...booststrap coffee sender and then we only raise two million seed and then a like an eleven million a. So we wanted to be a bit more thoughtful than overspend. You know, we also have invested in, you know, offices outside of just San Francisco. So we've got an office in Arizona, which has helped with kind of being a bit more cost efficient. We've got some overseas development, so that's helped as well. So just being thoughtful and where we spend has been big. What's been the biggest unexpected challenge for you as the CEO? Um? I mean I'm be kind of a glorified recruiter now. So I, you know, in my very executive Hyphi fighter, so in my previous roles and sales like I would, you know, interview here and there, but now it's like every day I'm we're interviewing. So I've had to really learn and understand that kind of what have you learned back? I mean I've tried to, you know, figure out questions, ask people, doing reference checks or like back channeling people. How do I you know, one of my things is just like opening it up and letting them ask me questions and seeing how you know that. So just kind of like situational things has been big and just figuring out how to interview people at scale. How do you think about executive hiring and yeah, and how do you make sure? You know, we talked about in revenue collective, and I don't mean to put you too much on the spot, but the average ten year for a VP of sales, of vpm marketing has fallen below eighteen months. YEA, and you're getting advice from investors, are sure saying she's the zero to ten cro and then you're going to need a different woman for ten to thirty and then a different woman for thirty to sixty, or it doesn't matter what the gender is. But the point is that you're getting the implicit recommendation that you should be swapping people out. How do you feel about that? How do you address that? Well, hire saying that, I we haven't gotten that yet. That's right's a good sign, I guess, or I think so. Yeah, so we've got it. We've got a great team. We haven't there hasn't been any you know, exodus of our leadership team. So that I think that's good. So I I guess I don't have too much to comment on that other than, you know, I have heard that that. I think that's pretty common talk of like, you know, the zero to ten and stage appropriate, appropriate leadership. You don't see. I think that, you know, there's so much to be learned when you spend, you know, too three years at a company. That's hard to just replace just because they haven't been in a you know, there haven't been that next stage. So I'm for giving people a chance more than just saying hey, you haven't you know, run a thirty million are our company like you're out of here. Yep, you know, we've done a good job of bringing advisors. We've bottily got thirty or forty advisors that are, you know, xcmos, you piece of Sales Crows, who we've lended on for some you know, different types of questions and scenarios that even some of my senior leadership and executives will look into. So there's been one of the ways I think early on we bridge saw that gap. That's great. How do...

...you? What do you what do you see for the future for Sydow? So you as you think about I'm sure you're obligated to paint a massive picture. You know that it's going to change the world. But, yeah, how are you going to change the world? Tell us about the next three to five years. Yeah, so I think were I mean I think you know, the whole direct mail, call it or you know gifting, is still, I think, in its kind of infamacy in terms of just how people think about it. You know, if you ask a lot of people, direct a mail at was something that is an older thing that you used to do, that you would do in big batches it's not something that's real time integrated in your text act. So, although it seems obvious, I think there's a bit of education that we're still doing in terms of just educating the market that you can do this. So that's a big thing that we're doing. I think that, you know, moving global. You know we have facilities in UK and Australian Canada, but we won't we see a lot of other markets that we can get into. So that's a big thing for us and just continuing to, you know, refine the platform, adding, you know, new features in this and that from our customer, Mace. So great when you you know, we talked about the fact that you're that you're recrud or what some of the other I mean, I guess I just it's always interesting. Zero seven, yea, such a jump. What else have you learned? So I've learned to wear a lot of hats. So I will. You know, I ran the product team since the beginning, which you know. I think that was a big advantage for us, though, because I knew the product that I wanted to build, because I wanted to use it really bad. Yeah, so that really helped. I've been wearing the marketing hat for a while, though. We just found a VP of marketing there and higher section. Finally, that was been a big win off my plate. So just jumping around two different teams has been, you know, really how do I prioritize my time, because each team kind of wants my time? And then how do I and do you have a coach? Do you have a set of advisors besides the board, or is it the board? Um, I look to some of my like my past CEO and some other CEOS, more than my board, just because I think that they are a bit more, you know, open and kind of they have the they CEO experience more than my I think my board's helpful and I'm like Hey, I need help with recruiting and what do you think about this scenario, things like that, but you know, my CEO colleagues and peers and advisors have been more helpful and just kind of general questions around how I should be spending my time. What should I be looking for? When should I raise in the next round? How many employees? All these different things so cool when you're you know, we've got some marketers in the room and and you've probably spend some time defining your ideal customer profile. So is it every marketer? Is it everybody should be using direct mail? How do you think about arrowing it so that people can understand if they're the right candidate to be integrating this into their strategy? And I'm also curious how the rise of account plas marketing has impacted your business in your perspectives on ABM. Yeah, so you know, it's actually when to answer question. I think like almost everybody...

...could think about how they could incorporate direct mail. And so, you know, it's the demand Gen marketers, it's the field marketing, it's the programs, it's the event marketers. So we work across all these different groups. In addition to that, we're seeing SDR managers, the piece of sales being ICPs. For us, the Customer Success Org and Customer Marketing Org is starting to figure out how they can use this to build better relationships with their existing customers. And then I think longtail industries outside of kind of tech and you know typical orgs like real estate, recruiting, finance, financial services, insurance, automotive. There's a lot of other use cases where maybe they've been doing direct mail but now we're offering this more integrated approach and also bringing in a lot more options than what you know. Historically, amount have been just like printed postcards and some you know things and envelopes. Is there, but is there one specific use case that sort of everything grows from as a seed? I wish I could say that, but if I were to show you the like the the chart of like all of our type, the titles of all of our youth people that are using the platform with the tens of thousands users, you would be like holy, you know holy. Only this is a ton of different use cases. So I can't put a, you know, a single thing on it. Awesome. So towards the end of the podcast we also we always like to understand your influences. You mentioned other CEOS and advisors and sort of paying it forward in terms of people that have inspired you. Yeah, who are some of those people that you think we should know about, as you know, as we're here to learn? Yeah, so I get some inspiration. I really like reading. So like Malcolm Gladwell is an author that I, you know, really early on really like marketing psychology, as I thought that was really interesting and then, I mean I think now I just really get inspiration from just by peers. So it's probably CEOS and people. are some great CEOS that you go to for advice. Yeah, so my previous CEO, Thiago at talk desk, is kind of probably one of the main ones. You know John Miller over, an engage O, how porter at sales offt many over now reach a lot of our partners. I find a good synergies of talking to their CEOS just because the kind of get what we're doing really well and can offer up a lot of talk tracks. So yeah, I mean and then just general networking. I think that, like I said, we've got forty or fifty advisors. So some of the just like talking, getting breakfast with cemos is really just impactful in terms of just hearing their perspectives. And if folks are listening to this and they want to reach out to you, they if they want to work at sendos. Yeah, maybe love it. An. What's your how? What's the best way to get in touch with you? So find me on Linkedin. We spell your last name for their listeners out there. It's our D ee Gr a AP, okay, Rudy grap yeah, or you can email me, Chris, with the K Kis. That's a NOSOCOM. Great, it's another, not even normal. Fine, thank you. Parents. What is the origin of the of the name? So, funny enough, Rudy...

...is my mom's last name, which is Poli, should duck, and crop is my dad's ass names Dutch, and then they got married they combined the name and so how very modern. I know. How you know? Northern California. Yeah, that's great, that's fantastic. I'm Chris. Thanks for being on the show. Thanks for being here for the fireside chat. We're going to open it up to q and a. If you're out there listening, you'll hear that Qa on our Friday fundamental show and if you're here in the audience, this will all feel very strange. So thanks for being here. Cool. Thank you. So let's give a rechrists around the bog everybody. This is SAM's corner. I hope you liked part one of our live recording of our interview with Chris Rudy Grab, the cofounder and CEO Sindoso. If you're thinking about what to take away from it, besides of course, maybe thinking about some kind of platform like Sendoso to integrate into the outreach that you're doing and the meeting generation and demand, your eneration that you're working on. Just think about what it represents that direct mail and sending physical objects has come back into the sales sequence, into the way that we're reaching out to people. The other thing that's come back is cold calling, is phone calls. So you just have to remember the things that worked a while ago are probably going to work less and less well every day that everybody adopts them. So you know, nine years ago, ten years ago, we all read predictable revenue. We were all sending plain text emails. I made so much money when I was running sales at axeal with the subject line right direction, question mark or five minutes question mark. But now we're being indated with those emails and more and more of the SDRs that are coming up are not being trained or equipped to use the telephone on the right way. And you have to be creative and Omni Channel. That's one of the things that emerges from, if you've read the book sales engagement, that you have to be on any channel and send Dosa as part of that story. Sendso as part of we can't just be phone. You know, voicemail and phone and an email. It cannot just be voicemail and email, voicemail and email. You have to use Linkedin, you have to send text messages and use SMS. You have to think about sending physical objects at certain points through the sales cycle, either to get the meeting or maybe to nurture the prospect post demo as you move towards the close. But how do you think about and what is your strategy for creative personalization, because I can tell you that that is what's going to be required to succeed. And even though it feels on scalable, there are more and more platforms like Sendo, so that can help you scale your meeting generation efforts. Because if you're just relying on email, that's not going to work, and if you're just relying on voicemail plus email, that's not going to work. And if you're sending two thousand of the same emails that are written by the marketing department but don't have any information about the human that you're sending them to and don't acknowledge or understand that maybe you know their professional experience, where they're at, what their context is. Is John Barrow says, context is King or emperor or whatever the metaphor is, then you need to be thinking about that because because that's what's going to drive effective meeting generation,...

...and without meetings we can't make money. So something to think about. Think about using some kind of physical objects into the outreach that you're doing, into your sequences, because they have been shown to drive up conversion rates and improve responses and ultimately to lead to, you know, increase when rights, which is what, of course, we're all looking for. So this has been Sam's corner. Thanks so much for listening. If you haven't rated the show, please give us five stars on itunes. If you want to reach out to me, you can. I'm on Linkedin. Linkedincom forward the word in and then forward Sam f Jacobs, and once again, thanks thanks to our sponsors, Conga, the leading and to end digital document transformation suite, to outreach, the leading sales engagement platform, and to send ooh So, the sending platform, for their participation and we'll talk to you with the second part of the conversation this Friday. Thanks so much for listening. Talk to you next time.

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