The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

8. Build Your Sales Pipeline with the Best Sales Cadences w/ Derek Grant

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

On this episode of the Sales Hacker Podcast, we talk with Derek Grant, VP of Sales from SalesLoft about building a successful pipeline with the best sales outreach strategies. Tune in now!

One twoone thre three before we get started, we want to thinkthis month sponsor introducing Gong Dot io the number one conversationintelligence platform for sales gone helps. You generate more revenue byhaving better sales conversations, it automatically captures and analyzesyour teams conversations. So you can transform your team into quotashattering. supersellers visit, Gondat IO, forward fas sales hacker to get inon the action and sheilized and now on with the show. I already welcome to the sales hackerpodcast. It is your host Sam Jacobs, we've got a great one. Today, we've gotDerek grant who leads sales loss, commercial sales organization? Let mequickly give you deriks bio and then we're going to jump into the interview,so Derek has delivered hockey, stick growth and earn the number seven spot.Actually this is sales loft on the lloyts fast five hundred fastest graincompanies, by helping over fifteen hundred companies, deliver a bettersales experience to their customers, while maximizing revenue prior tojoining sales, loft dereck served as the architectof part ot sales processleading the organization from prerevenue start up to a hundredmillion dollar exit to exact target. Subsequently, acquired by sales forceDEREC as a native son of Florida holds a bachelor's degree in Colms fromFlorida State and is supervised by three high powered. Ladies, his wifeKelly and his baby. Girls, Riley and race. Welcome Deryck, Sam Thanks Waltfor having me on here. You know this will be probably the first sales hackerpodcast that has ever been turned into a drinking game because you're north ofthe Mason dixonline, I'm south bit, and so every time that I say a Yall orbless theyre hard or reference cornbread thats on my my forto roots, Ifeel like everyone should have to stake a drink on something. So it's going tobe a lot of fun and I'm Ki'd excited you have. Oh, that's, fair and, as aconsequence, you know we're recording this before noon. So we encouragepeople to wait at least till afternoon before they start pouring themselves ashot of Jamison, which is my preferre drink, a quick counterbalance so thatyou can't drink all day. If you don't get started in the morning, that's a good point and we can beproductive while drinking during the day. You Know It's a myth that youcan't be productive. You just got to make sure you have company so anyway,dereck you're, the VPA commercial sales. As I mentioned, you work for sales.Loft tell us about sales, loft very quickly, yea, so sales loft is atechnology company here in Atlanta that that overla sales forcecom and it helpsyou codify your go to market strategy. You know so often we hire reps, who arehigh d on the disk profile, their high eye on the high on the disk profile,their dominance toir influencers, but they miss some of the followup some ofthe process. Centry things an sales hoft is really there to help. Youdefine your play and help reps be able to adhere to it and to be able to driveforward to the things going to drive the most revenue for their BUSINESSASD.So you know news today: We we just announced the fifty million dollarfunding round from insight and also linked in SOB SOSO powerful. It's agreat growing space. It is the next have to have four technology companieshare out there, and I think it will move out of the earlierdoptor stage ofjust being a tect Centri platform and move into more traditional industries.But you know there's two types of companies: ones who are going to buysales engagement this year and use it as an offensive advantage and the oneswho will buy it next year, who were just going to be playing defense, so avery cool space validated by the investors and really honor to be well,congratulations on the funding and so give us a rough sense. Obviously youknow the specifics: Are Private and confidential, etc, etc. But how roughly?How big is sales loft from an Arr perspective, so we do keep that alittle bit close to the best. What I would say is that that a company's growthrough trajectory from two to twenty million is one of the number oneindicators of how dont fair in the public market, and I can tell you thatwe did it in an incredibly fast amount of time, also th the business insiderarticle that talks about this today mentions eight hundred percent growthin the last two years, and so we've had the opportunity to growch the break,neckpace and T' Great Testament to marketing market timing and a bread,POCT team, bots, well Rin, our mutual...

...friend, Kevin o'malley runs, runsmarketing for you guys. So I think marketing is den an amazing job itsells lost, so we will take that to emply north of twenty million, which isfantastic, and then how big is your team, so my team is fifty across Sdrsand ags and sales engineers, managers and so forth, so yeah good size team.So now, let's hear a little bit more about Derek Grant. Besides beyond theaccent. How long have you been in start up Landa? How do you get into salespecifically because you are particularly when it comes to likessales leaders outside of the traditional hubs of New York City inthe bay area? You're one of the folks at that, a lot of t es knowabouts? Howdo you find your way into sales? I'm an accidental sebbler there's something tobe said for persistence, and so I worked the night shift it a company inTalahassee during my time, Foarte state into tect support and from there Iparly that into a training Gig at the company and from there agot intoproject management and from there was one day walking down the hallway andthe sales manager STAS head out the door and said Hey, you want to do sales,and I was in Grad school at the time getting up what I'm sure would have notbeen a supervaluable communications masters, because we're doingcommunications for free right now were doing. IFORFREE is ther, no money n itSAM, and so he convinced me to take a job on the road. I got a really premoterritory for seling technology. I got the Midwest, so I got Iowa and KansasNorth South Dakota. I mean the placis, where you really think of technologything taking up by people and had a great experience. It was. This. WasSilicon Prairie, I think that's what they call it. Maybe there's I on't know:There's silicon out theyre, just the PRAIRI were corn stalks out numberpeople substantially, but what a great learning ground for me had theopportunity to so enterprise technology to government, which was a differentsort of thing, because government buys by RFPC, so it's pus about justgrassrout selling as as much to do with your ability to fill Tup paperwork, andso it Taltin process and Riggor, and then hat really weird stop. For oneyear I became the chief sales guy at a psychiatric hospital wow and a lot ofpeople have said. I think you actually were a patient. There was like no, no.I was working there pretty sure. So you were selling crazy people on theopportunity to come to your hospital. That's exactly right! F W! Actually wewas. I didn't spend too much done with the crazy people, but with psychiatrist,therapist impatient psychiatric facilities and was convincing them tosend their their loveane to us to stav for anywhere from Thirte an ninety daysand talk about being heartbroken. I saw some things that just absolutely stillto this day, scor meet up technology when it messes up nobody dies, nofamilies are torn apart and what I saw there was just I just didn't- have themental makeup, the strent to be able to live long in that field, and so in thetime I met my wife meter, an drug rehab and it turned out. She worked for adrug, rehappen or firs siht hospital. So I was trying to get referrals out ofher most people kind of pause. When they hear that I met my wife, an drugrehap anyway ebecause it seems possible right Ra, but I've been in afewerpatien there, sort of like the siehospital- and I thought maybe you're,just an overshere and I'm like okay, yeah Yoa, very real part of theinterfew, all of a sudden share that yeah that you know Shit. But sheconvinced me after that Yoar to move to Atlanta, and I was super lucky to havebeen on Craig's list at the time if You'e Goin crags list now you're,probably not looking for a job at in back in two thousand and seven, youcund find a job s instead of like a casual encounter, I suppose and foundpardot on there and was the fourth employe part Ot. Two Thousand and seven,you ere the fourth employee at Parton, crazy to think about wow, the personontechnical and we I started there, the Tuesday after Labor Day wher. Do wemove my life to Atlanta to be part of this spudgling startup and was prettysure that we be out of business by Thanksgiving we people had wanted. Wedidn't know what the message was. The product was not feature rich and wejust sort of kept at it over time and we grew and, interestingly, even foranyone who's out there right now and thinks about the role of fuck. You knowgood the gread talks about how fuck is something super important. The downturnof the economy in two thousand and eight actually was an important reasonthat that partot was able to be successful because they wanted an eloattype of platform, but they didn't...

...necessarily have the resource to help,and so you take the women's that come at you and you tournaments, eliminateand so there's. You know some intresting things there that we wereable to persevere and endure and ultimately get all by exact target andall playing sales fors an ithing. What a cool experience to have seen it fromfor employes to shes had a team of two hundred sellarsgoblly. By the time we got done b the time I left just incredible to see thegrown they are killing and now I'm so proud of them. I mean that's a reallyinteresting story and there's so many folks that are listening right now thatare in that stage where maybe it's not four people, but it's a small number.First of all, it's amazing that as a sales later you you made it throughbecause so many times you know every ceis going to hire an executive coachto tell them that they got a layer either the executive, coach or theinvestor saying. Well, I don't know if DERK's The guy for ten to twentymillion, but he might be a guy for Zerto ten. So how did you make itthrough all of those different transitions? And what are the lessonsthat you took from the small place where you're almost preproduct marketfit to the place where you know you're, getting acquired by exact target andultimately running a global team of two hundred? The truth of the matter isthat had we had VC investment, I wouldn't have been able to have lastedthe entire towne that hit's such an interesting thing that you think aboutas the head of sales. If someone puts in tins or in the case would have todayfifty million dollars for sales lot, what ends up happening is they want tobring in someone? That's done it before Mon you're, an unfunded startup. Theycan't afford someone who's done it before, and so they were stuck with.Maybe you know one of the really cool things they did to get me excited aboutthe company. was they built out of plants? Now I remember when I startedin two thousand and seven Sam you're going to laugh at this because I's onemonths, THREATN NEW YORK, thirty two USAN dollars a year, my very first Geraor not. If you believe that well, you can stay in my bathroom for thirtytwosand a month, I cun maybe get a iget like a corner of your claws that Icjust PA andbut. What they said was we're goingto do we're going to hit this revenue Mousan we're going to hire two wrepsand we're going to hit this next revenue mile stude we're going to hirefour EBS in affectd me. They built out the plan that allowed me o to growincrementally with that business, so was army of one. I was the VP of me.You know the chief bottle Washer a fivedollar title and a fifty cent joband thene got a couple raps, and then we got a couple more and a couple moreand then we got to the point whe we needed our first manager, and so wehired Ar we promoted Jordan racky into that position and we hired a few morereps and a few mor in a few more and then we needed another manager we putout doing in that spot. So we just kind of grew over time, and so you know Iprobably couldn't have done and it if the me ten years ago was in a VC backcompany and they just invested a lot of money. There's a likelihood that Iwould have not had the Opportunito have the experience that I had and so thegrind and the hardache and the hardship that we had to endure was we werecompeting against Moncetto and Eliqo ane hub spot. Really, I guess all foractually ipod to do. It is an unfunded company. You know was crazy and therewere a lot of lessons forem there. You know Yeu asked about different lessonslearned. I think I've found that there's a difference between doingmanaging the doers and managing the managers, and that was something Ididn't understand at the time, but just the different skill sets when what doyou think the different skill sets are particularly, you know the thing thatwas always a challenge for me was going fror managing the doers to managing themanagers, H W? What's your inview on that? That's a huge one. I think thatthere has to be really distinct, Woll Clarty as to what it is that they wantto do. I can tell you that that during my time at Pardot, one of the thingsthat I did was was I ended up. I would run the end around of my managers andit's just like such a bad thing to do, but because I knew the raps Ar Restomto me and I'd go to the reps, and you know if there's a deal, I need to knowwhere it was ot. You go to the manager, I ust tall them directand. So Istruggled with that and so something we've done. Sales off Tis, reallyfocusd O on old definition, and I owe it to my managers and our leaders hereto not go around. If I want to communicate to mixe Super Positie torep, I take every right to do that, but I need to work through them. They needto have clear Cape the eyes. One of the things I do with our SR managers todayis they have a red, green, yellow sheet for each individual rep and what I walkinto the everyone of one saying is: What's wrong, what am oin to be goingto be mad about when I see it, what...

...have you already done to fixing, and soit empowers them to be able to make decisions and more keep me in the bluteand if they need help, they know I'm there to jump in on it. But I thinkit's me not necessarily going to record a rep and put arm around I'm sayingwhat the Hel man we gotta get. This done come on. I need to see more willout of you, because YOUV got zero. steell right now e need to prove it anI'm able to sort of keep my reign. My crazy in I guess and and a the managersreally use me as a resource rather than me, being the person who's down theretrying to make it happen, and it's hard. I've got a Manageen Book Wen time. Ittalked about different leaderships Scoutstyles, and I found myself inthere I bwausthy paralyzing manager, and I was so embarrassed on. I read asa crap. What is the paralyzing manager, the person who's always willing to dothe thing for them and always ready to give an answer and what ends uphappening? Is your managers stop being accountable for am things. They knowthat t t you're just going to go to the raps. The reps can know long if you'reout of the office and they need someone to explain what to do on a contract oragainst the particular better. They come to a grinding halt, and it'sbecause I was so wanted to help. I I was so wired to help that by helping sofreely actually really disempowered. All the people that were were around soI sort of know my I know my blind spot on that Waye and I did you learn thatbased on feedback or you know, it's sort of like self reflectionselfwareness. After the fact I've heard the analogy, O plape spinning. You knowthe one of the things that we found whenever we, whenever I had the team oftwo hundred was one day I was so involved in all the things that mymanagers would have handled for me. My director would have handled for me, butbecause I was so intentil being involved in everything one day theplace just started falling off. I could keep them all spending anymore, and Ithink I realized it maybe a little too late. En My you know, personal qualityof life went way down. I can say I was walked every night till ten I'd drinkmyself to sleep, but wake up in the morning sit on the back. PORGE callLondon pound a pack of cigarettes it just like. I was just a horrible soband it was because of the fact that I tried to be in too many places at onepoint. So wene y asked a question ofbike. How did I realize it? Irealized it when my life hit almost said. It ad hit a sort of professionalrock bottom. When things were professionally, we were still drivingrevenue, but Banna. Just I was miserable. I was inmiserable SBING, itwasn't anybody's fault, it wasn't. Sales Force, fallowing, pardot SPALT,wasn't anybody's Pautit, my thoulht, because I couldn't stay in my lane andI wanted to help so much that I was a malwane and inch Steven could helpanybody. I just had become this sort of Bocker to things. Caning done talkabout reflection. I my wife works in a substibuce treatment center, which isback to the joke of Meniar and drug rehabit. I think in drugry have youneed to have a rock bottom that can tell you that that was a once. You havea real sort of moment of crisis and just a moment of real strong timeofheadwents. At this point, it is like a hurricane coming at you. I had theopportunity to go back and take a little bit of an invenstory and there'sa lot of things. I would have done differently and I'm trying to do here.I sales off, which is be helpful, but not necessarily have to do all thethings yeah and I think that transition is tough, for I don't think it's justyou. I think it's tough for a lot of people, because I think sometimespeople feel like work is the act of like the tactics is the act of workingon the deal themselves or being on the phone calld themselves and when youhave to step back and do all of that through the organization and throughyour management layers, I think sometimes it doesn't feel like work topeople and they wonder what they're doing all day, because they're meetingsuntil six and then they go home and that doesn't feel quite as productiveas actually having gotten the docky sign signed. You know you lose thethrill with the adrilling rushs is being in the room and it is interesting.But as you pull back you're no longer the person leading the group of thehill, you can still eat from the front, but you're now the person who's back,AF few levels, a D and you're up on the hill and you're able to see everything,that's going on and really be able to command the battlefield. But you haveto take your gratification from other places. You know because it's no longerabout being the person that helps trage the deal overwiyh and I think all ofthe SN sales are what a bit of glory hounds a's, not man, to be ugly and hy,may say not me, but I mean like it's fun, to win it's fun to be in the room:Hen Y win, it's fun to see the Whitestol for a grand new rap. Youcan't believe that you said the thing and it worked, and here you are withthe contract. It's awesome and it's...

...just it's. You have to find footfilmand I think in other places, whether it's coaching on boarding, whether it'shelping doing leadership development, whether it's Spaning more time strategyor even you know, being locked into a room from a marketing perspective. Ohelp refind the message. I think you can't be the Adrelan Jok. My ex brotherinlaw was a navy pilot and when he got to be forty, he's not able to go outand fly in the squats anymore. So then he becomes part of a training Battianand then then Os' get to fin anymore. Now he's now the xo he's commandingofficer, because you know overtime, the things that you used to do were not thethings you should be doing later in your career, and it was interestingthat that I've sort of seen that happen in Myon career as much. I want to bethe Audrillan Junke at the stick, driveing the the deal forward. That'snot really where I should be doing other things and then I you know is nowI sort of have a deskjob have a sales deskshot, it's cool, but it is it's adifferent sort of thing. Every day I agree and then there's some of us wheresome people get the reverse feeling, which is sort of a weird way of sayingthat some people feel like they weren't quite evermet, for the individualcontributor stuff, but they knew they needed to do it, but they always feltlike maybe they felt more comfortable at a deakhjob overseeing thebattlefield. etce you've been doing sales for quite a while. You know thisis a question. A lot of people ask, but you mentioned disk profiles when youthink about the qualities of a human being that make them effective sellersand effective account executives. What do you think stands out so every salesleader out there e's listening to this is going to hire the first dyear of thefirst guy who walks across they tell an incredible story. They tell a storyabout strong arm. You know the old joke was that you know they throw theirmother down a flight of stairs to get a contract, sign that you'r classic T,wife or the party never met a stranger classic Uy and those R. The peopleyou've gone in sales. I'll tell you that the best celler I've ever seenoperate was a seat was a compliant a d. They call it now something different,because moonials have ruined everything. Sorr N Linins, they haven't arounedeverything Wen they're, going to men, gun laws in our country. So that's agood thing anyway. They're going to mend everything and they truly arechanging the world, and I would say that anybody who doesn't get themshouldn't think about it harder because they are theire Pusbul and theirintentional, and they want to be connected deep with te things. You know,as I sort of kid about the moniwals ruin and things like you can't call.compline anymore t have t cauht conscientiis, but this guy was boringto watch work he's not particularly like coll, so he wasn't an Iy. He hadsome Danum and justed everything perfect. He told you t' d have anythingby Friday at five o'clock. He had it to you, four thirty. I never missed thefollow UF. He was just absolutely incredible. Is Cott, tripling quote andEd doesn't look like crototype someone like holy smokes. We Shoul go hire anarmy of season. We did. We went out D, we started profiling. People like I whowants o Super Who's, an influencer get them ont in Yor, and we hired threeseas: Brad Christian Han. We had our guy camen and Brad and cristy.Incredibly, they were so thorough. They would know the name of the person's dog.They knew their favorite color, they knew where they'd gone to school andwhat the score of the game was, that they gone to last base on Instagram,which was an inscrampin time but like whatever, and they call when apper winvoicemack and that's two hours of you day, you can' get back, so we subsqueyShit can all of our seas except theyere, terrible they're horrible ere, likeFrat, for support great for accounting awesome, but tlet's hire them in ourCCOUNTY part. They were terrible at sales, and so, but I do think that yourds in your eyes in strength finders. They talk about balconies and basementsin the idea that, if you're really strong with something that that there'sa blind spot, you don't make no of sens to realize it. Thi Sort of classic oneis like great communicator Bada Listener, and so you hire your Dseneyes, but you have to be wary of what their blind spots are: they're, not alittle hanging fruit, sort of machine that they're not necessarily superintentional a lot of e times and so love them for what they're good for butthen know they aire blind spots and be willing to hold them accountable to dothe things will help them be sincere and thorough and their territory andtheir approach to customers, because you don't want to hire seas for sales.If you find one and they're good, theire Unicorn, but you don't know,hire those you want your decent eyes just be honest about what they're badat okay. Well, that's good advice, one of the things that we're not trying topitch sales loft on this call, but at...

...the same time I think you know when Iwas down in Atlanta recently for rainmaker. You guys had a lot of reallyinteresting research about sort of. I guess I call them foundational cadences,some of like the best practices about how to reach out to prospects. How toget a meeting and how to effectively so what insights have you gleaned from?You know the labs be from the boys in the back and the research that you'vebeen doing on the best and most effective ways to get meetings. We havean incredibly Blick Group of data scientists. Now they are not going togo out and get a date t someone of the opposite sex. You know, but they willpull a calculator out of their pocket, andto a math equation and just a spwootsecond westter heart there's a drink for everyone out there. So I thinkthat's the only that's the first drink we've had so people are stillrelatively sober at that you know. I need to hey to rampit up a little bitto so Butye. Those guys are great and you know because sales loff sits theintersection of phone email soishow. All these different touch types andsuch patterns that people are using. We were able to go in and take a wook andwe were able to do this thing that we're called therive Caden, as we havea thing that the call cadens coach and it's effectively going out and lookingat all these interactions over the last four years and giving you an idea ofwhat might be an optimal canence for your business. That's the one thingthat on the sale side we entownter it's like yeah. I know any TA cadence. Whatdo you think of this one? It's like I don't know. I don't know Your Business.I don't know your buyer, your messaging could stink.Like I don't know you know. Theoretically, I can tell you thatcompanies like Toko say that fifteen touches is the right number of touches,but there's a lot lost in translation there, and so what we did is we lookedat all these two hundred million interactions and we found a few thingsthat are crazy, important in simple tweiks that everyone here can make totheir tanances in their go to market processes to be able to be moreeffective in their communication, AF prospect and the first one is startwith the phone call and the very first manager I talked about at Parda was agun in Jordan rackey and he came through our SDR ranks. This is twothousand and eight, and he told me in two thousand and eight so fast forwarda decade, a gun. You got to dust, this memory off so wel. I schedule all mymeetings by email, they've been saying for all the leaders out there who werehearing that I've been hearing that for a decade and it's like great what you'dont all by Emaile, you got even more time to make phone calls, but he's justlike come on. Don't tell me that you, so we can do t ay safer. This lad, lencall you know, and what we find is that making a call and falling up with H,Oufal doing the double tap is the number one highest predictor of a highperforming cadence and you may say: Well we don't like to to call them dayone it's like yeah, I get it, but what I ca tell you. The science says youshould well. We like to email, n first and then follow the email up with thecalls. They have some context. Yep totally get it. The data says youshould call. First not say you shouldn't do anemail on a phone call inthe same day, but you should be Witeo just mich the order and it gives higherconnect rates because the person is without context. Now your reps going tobe ready to go in hot right, because the person is a sceing, the email fromyou to have some concext about what it is your brand does, so you got to beable to go in. You got to be perfectly equipped when you start theconversation, but that is the number one thing you should start with: thecall old up with e email same day, and also and again he d Derik mentioned it,but we call that in the business, a double tap, so that's Om insidebaseball for you, that is a little in tip, baseball and Tobo. Talks abouttriple tap is using social in there as well and so you're just trying to be empathetic. Ithink that's thing, people get about trying multiple channels is, don't bedogmatic, be prigmatic. I want to touch them in whatever inbox, whateverchannel is the easiest for them respond, because all I want is a conversation,and so I double tat gives them the opportice book. The Kanto phone callperfect, there's memail undher Inbox, and you can point back to it o vicefirst, the second one was don't be so damn robotic. I think this is a big one.Oftentimes I hear do companies every few days who ere doing an eight byeight, which is great and what they mean is double tap on Day. One doubldoubles at on Day Three Double Tapon Day: Five Doubll happe on day seven andit's the idea of you're hitting eight tych Os sort over that quick effect.What you're, sfacing up by one day, whan a research shows is you shouldstrive to have ten touches in the first...

...ten days and then from there you beginexpanding out the amount of time between your touch, because here's athing you have come at them like a spider Macki. At this point you e T men.If you get them thin times ten days, you were Ownin like a wet, blanket andY. U know I heard a comedian. One time say I don't know whether I'm beinghugged or held down. So I can't get away at at this point. You ere holdingthem down Sta and that's not what you wanted toexperience, but you're trying to be pleasantly persistent, not like astocker with their funny in the broile right, and so you have to you sort ofslow it down a little bit. you start expanding the time between yourcadences. Excuse me, between your touches, so that you're giving themtime to breathe and you're still delivering vy you an a content. Youaren't going long with them. That's a really important point. Research showsat the average REP knocks off after t two touch so serious decisions and tobe fair, that's the average that means somewe're doing three and a lot ofdoing wane and so whith. The idea is you now doing Hii ten times and tendays, Wbith H, you want to keep coup, you don't stop, but an Eigt by EighyouMon stop at at ten by ten. You want to continue to hit them over the span inthe next sixty days with messaging that I is broken out. That grows graduallythe intervals grow between, but still continue to serve them in Cotun totouch them over time, which you just you don't want to be every three daysgoing to be every one day every two days, Jou just don't want to that looksmechanical and people don't Wakte mechanical. At this point they want amechanical they', have marketing aunimations to sale traps. That'sinteresting that you say that, because maybe after the ten by ten sort of whatyou're saying is hand them back to marketing for traditional nurturing butyou're saying, maybe there's a difference between kind of marketingdrips and sales trips yeah there is, you know you lose the digitalfingerprints. You see, you know the in the frum address the Anti spoothingstuff. That says it looks like it's for Sam, but it's set by Marcetto mail andit's like sit's, not really from Sam or the unsubscribe lint in ther it partot.We coind the phrase, faking sincerity and I'll sayl you tat a decade later,I'm a little embarrassed by whatup for what vacan sincerity was was it wasdrips that looked like they were from the sales rep that we optimized to looklike they were coming from outbook and that we were then you know people Wou dhave a Auteel and we would sort of deliver. This impersonal, Hey. I knowyou're using INSERPETIOUR name, here's some reasons. People are switching andjust a bary. Here's a brand new blong post, like Sono Brande, botte, Posa, OT,post ten years old. That thing is, is in black and Whiteed, so Ol, but theywere sort of these automated program put seard. What byers demand now is notfake sincerityo bus wison star. What you'll see is if the REP continues todo it, they c continue to parsalize. They can continue to be relevant likeif your reps aren't following people Lintenou to connect with them, becausethere is no option for I'm a sales rap who, as stalking the crap out of thispart, I ha tnot a option only ten, but if you follow them and they postsomething marketing doesn't know to say a great article by the way. Well towhat you were doing, I agree. They don't know to do that, but the setlercan. And so, if you keep in the hands of the Celar Long Er, it can drive thelevel of sincerity and authentiss the up something that marketing and markingour mation just don't have the capability to do. Okay, that makessense. Was there a third or Didi? Did you already say the third? The firstone was start with a phone call. The second was don't be robotic. Was thethird maybe like extended out of the eight by eight or ten, by ten andstayincage longer Prei got to get past the short burst. There was a researchstudy that was done by sales folk and one of the things they found is theydid to eight touchcapes. They found that thirty percent of their toucheswere on the tail part of me on the Backaf of the Capes, and my perceptionis had they gone longer than just thin Tuch, as they would have seen even moresuccess, and so I think it's get past the eight and it's keep going to tentwelvefifteen figure out a way to keep being in that person's scope ofconscience. That makes sense. I'm curious just about the team and youknow getting providing some market data back to the listeners of the podcast.So you've got a team of fifty. How is that broken out? Yeap so way to thinkabout it? Is We have twenty three SDRs? Twenty three commercial ags? We brokethose rigors into a couple different things. We have our a one which is ourpromoted SDR, and I will tell you it's been such a great thing for us, becauseSRS already talked of the first third...

...of the selling process on then it'sshowing them how to just go, how to demo how to negotiate those sorts ofthings, but they've been such a great teater system for us and we keep themin that a one role for six months and we ad make it some revenue numbers andthen we move into an two which is a higherotge higher base and then therthey're often running there, so TSO twenty three and twenty three and thenwe've got one sales engineer. You know we saw to sales people, so it needs tobe sales proof, and so we don't have an army of sales engineers doing demos,it's our reps. they use it every day and they know how to talk about thevalue that provides to our customers. And then we got directors on the a side,and so there are firstline managers. We, you know the old linked in rule. Wewant to give them the most prestigious sounding title that we possibly canwould or e bever leave, but if they do, we want to make sure they're better forhaving been with us and then we've got managers on Te, the SR side. So ae one.You expect interproduce revenue and they stay there for six months. Isthere a revenue expectation within the first one to two months? I guess myquestion is: What's to sale cycle and D, You ever see it where Sdrs are kind ofholding on to opportunities and anticipation of promotion so that theycan have a few quick wins when they get promoted. So a great question. Weactually tell them to do that so, but its not hold onto them, so in theirlast month es an SDR. We then say that you're going to begin gettingdemostarted and wh we're going to do is we're going to let you pick the lastfive, so their quarters fifteen, and so they sorce ten o the team and they thelast five for them, and we always tell hem like what you make it. The premoone is meeting number one you're a long way from knowing what to say to them,and so you got to send that over and so we believe that's going to happen. Weknow that's going to happen. So it's like why fight gravity on that justtell them that they will be sourcing for themselves, so Wer, eigt ones,don't get any outbound s tur coverage and from an inbound perspective we seea lot of smaller companies that come in bound and we were service, those thatyou know they're not necery our target market, but they are a great learningground for our a onts, and so eighty ones will get the benefit of enboundscoming in. So they have a twenty three day, soinlike on it mountit. It's superquick and thes. There's not a ton of meat on the bank. That's fine! It's h!The experience that they're getting is huge and then from there we also havean outbound prospecting expectation. U They've got to go out it and, as amatter of fact, Ara he's also have an oltbound prospecting expactation. Sothere's nobody in our company W who doesn't prospect our SDRs do it, butthey are not the only ones whrogh out their hustling to make me Tapanalreayis on thirty percent of their own pipeline as well. Huh. Thirty percent-that as the number that was the then my next question and then one of my lastquestion just on the structure of the team. So one to one is interestingright. So one SDR to one ae: What's the AE quota and are you doing it monthlyquarterly annually and is it total contract value? Is that Arr how youguys thinking about it yeah? And so so we think about it in terms of Aror, notnecessarily tcbal, though we do optimize for multiyear contracts, soour reps caries our commercials, Cariy six hundred husand doar quota and IAWEN,not asking them to split the atom, but it's a good size quota, particularlythro, Ote, and so, if you think about our percentage that Yeu spend on salesand marketing, it's well within what the vcs like see what the valley wouldexpect. So that was a quote. A question give me the other on. I'm sorry what dowewith the so well one question is so it's six hundred tousand, which isfiftyk a month, yeah accelerators monthly, quarterly annually. How do I,if I want to get into the bonus Howe you time that out? That's Great Quc, soso quarterly, although I think on a very monthly cadence and we've donethis all the way back since the partot days, Iwill tell you that I think salesfundamentas haven't changed that much in the last decade, things like likemetrics and conversion rates, and just how much pype coverage you need havenot got dramatically different. So my thought process is hard for the REP tomake the quarter if they don't make month. We want to continue to driveevery quarter toward the quarterly number, and so you know we I considerto be a failure. If e Miss a huntly number, but the reps are cynevized onquoteres make sense all right, we're almost out o time. So, first of all,thank you. So much derrk you've been amazing. We Wul like to reserve a fewminutes to sort of call out some of your favorite things. So, first of all,what's in your text, ack, obviously,...

...sales loft, obviously, sales force,maybe pardot, but what are some of the other great tools that you're using tomake your team more effective yeah I to all all three of those are in there,which is very preceptive. I tell you the one that we love is ever strayingand so really really powerful. It's able to bubble up companies should becalling based on propensity, scoring and able to bubble a look. U Bycompanies and one thing to help drive, relevencies Thay can say you're.Currently you know I'm calling on on a health care organization, becausehere's three other healthy organizations you work with, so thatyou can then namedrop the old drop this right in there. You know in the emailto be able to drive relevency and personalization they're, so it reallypowerful in that videard titard. So good. How much are you embedding videointo your caences? Is it right out of the bat and for Vidyard you have toevery we pest to sort of record their own video from their desktap? Is thatright? We they realy have to. You can do some marketing produced videos, butI mean you know that again can be done by marketing aunomation. So why do youneed a Wep doing it? You know, marketing on o macion can do for cheapron with fewer spelling years as far as I'm concerned, and so we do have repsrecord their own video. What we do is we use. It is the third email type sowe's en a really personal email, one we then bubble up or reply to that emailis our second email touch, and then the third is a video whatis found. Is thatif the Repsron camera for step one, it takes a harder amount of time stressingto research, Fon something relevant and then sort of, say those words into thecamera. So we like going with the personal email first and the videoemail. Third, one of the things in that sales fall are sales. Folks study thatI referenced earlier was the idea that email one usually has one of your worstconversio rates. But so often we send our very best message of that, becausethe person never heard from you before and if particularly in our industry,they know their sales team is ar reaching out more than twice so en tmeyget an email and it's even if it is relevant that probably not going toever hear from this rap again and if you do get them a second time youactually that's your highest number of convergions is on the second touch.That's whyt. We didn't necessarily want to burn a video and step. One is thatthat there is people skeptical, Tha, you're, going to hit t on the second orthird time. How long is the video last question on videos, so the emailsubject line is a thirty seven. Second, video for person and baseon researchfrom bidyard, including the work video in there, actually causes open rates,skyrocket, they're, not all thirty, seven seconds, trute an advertising etw term. We shout to keep thim under a minute because it's like where's thebirds of pat that they got time to watch you just opine on and on on n andon nd on. It's like just say something to say it concisive, something that Iheard on a Webenar, and I would tell you that, after fifteen years of sales,I literally was dumbfounded by because I'm so dumb and I thus what I realized.I was dumb dound EXC, I'm dumb in step, one. We research, the person, we write,a personal email one and in my world it was always the voice. Mail you' leavewould be hey, I'm Derek Wish Company and we pid Vau prope. Why not saythere's exact same words on the voice, mail or vice versa, right and so whatsteman Rodi over meal soft who just got acquired by sales? For said he does, ashe said, that reps were spending so much time trying to like Tik, sothen,widdy to say or whatever it's like just read the freaking. They wont email toCen, personalized, an understand you prove revedy byex and it just had owork iniversiin. Whatever the compelling events are just say thosewords on the video. It's the idea that, once you dig up some nugget, you thinkhis main Fel Tat, Wilh Trot Tham Action, use it in every channel possible when I,when I heard that fan I have given people boys mell scripts for years andhow stupid is that the thing that they said into email t athe roadbor vice versa right ion O. I don't know if it's as stupid, as you'resaying I mean maybe different messages. The medium is part of how youcommunicate the message. Maybe there's a message: Ind, writing. That's notquite the same thing as saying it out loud, but IE. Take your point, Orr Som,your influencers. You know if we want to go out and go on linked in and findyou know your perspective, your point of view on the one or two greatthepiecof sales that you've interacted with. U Just mentioned stepen brody formeal soft, who else are the people that you look up to in the industry or thatyou talk about my spirit? Animal is Scott Lease. I want to be him forHalloween. The guy is a Britain stud.

He is a grinder. He told the story atalbound injune that they went from a team of fifteen when he took over tothree and two weeks because of the fact that he wanted people to be accountland he wanted people to cry it, but at the same time he didn't just throw thimout into the deep end of the pool and then drag a bunch of drowned bodies outof pool he spendag ton of time in a avlunt every day is madeageorresponsible for an at but decuatly multiple times a day to make the retbetter what they were doing, and I think he walks that delicate bauance up.I expect you to always do more with and let me help you get there. He is aperson who demands will and is helping improve skill every day. So I love himfor that. He is awesome. Is this that this is the guy? The Sep of sales fromQualia is that right, Yep Yep he's moved on from Ouboun engine to Quaia,but yeah. He is awesome and then Mocraberg from hub spot, heers oldbuddy of mine, the Guyis, a scientific seller. I mean he's the guys Mi tfreaking engineer they I, what the guys even doing selling is beyond me whataree the Nixest got the smart now I know he lectures at HBS, so it'samihe's, always in the HARVARDY COS system. Don't don't say bs go, say: Hae,that's how they say it. I assume that he wears like jacket with patches onand he's got ta Sta he's ticking a pipe when he's doing as like. I don't knowif any of that's true, but I seiv that in my minds I I think you're right, hedefinitely has a Pocktat Square. He was always very defnit, fir exactly andthen bill bench. You know I will tell youthat the marketing aunimation guys we all grew a space together and we wouldhave literally done the other one in always, but I grew a great amount ofadmiration for those guys he's left. Marquetta was now a Pindo and hisleading sales over there. But bill is someone who had a great ability toscale a team so, but I think a mark is being the science guy. I think it billsthe button seat, driving productivity, a guy who's, instant upside from asales perspective, and then Scott is being the person that is just he'sworking with new sellers. He is getting them PROTUC, so those guys are allbossed. As far as I'm starte- and you say, I'm goingt give a snanmels bok foryou OII. I love a good chamless Poda a as we love to Sentour Timein KLGM. I willsell you there's nobody better Butin relationships, knowing better collingthe team, and so I'm going to put you on the list and it's well deserve, andso you know I will say those for that's. Why 've really pleased andit looks likemy check clear this month. So thank you for for accepting my payment, throw a yawl in there SUPOSEU S, longat home, that'll be Yayour bom one or two last questions. One one is you've,been dropping a lot of books. So, first of all, that's one of my favoritethings about any kind of professional, and actually we were at a fireside chatwith te New York riven collective last night and Bob Knie from jam. My equitywas saying, you know: Are you a lifelong Learnn? It sounds like you are,so if I'm want to be Dere grant one day, and I want to read a couple of booksthat help shape your professional career, what are some of the books thatyou want to Reference Yeah? You know, I think, for any people have the opportunity way betterthan me. It's the most important thing, but just ome found, I think, there'sfoundational stuff, one that ihave always liked to spend selling. I thinkyou can also put into the just sales fundamental books challenger. I thinkyou can also put in their Josha principle. I thin those are allpreboots, tare sort of foundational from a sales perspective, but alwaysfelt like I hate it when people just read a ton of sales books, becausehere's a thing if anyone had truly figured out the thing to win every deal,they be sitting on a yacht, the South Pacific right now, they wan't tell itto because they be afraid you duse it an deal and take them off their yacht,and so I think people who are whoare writing books. Thinking you can tikunder mental things from it, but I don't think that anyone has got the I'be pragmatic about the salesbooks that I read and what I took away from them,verse being dogmatic. I don't think anybody's got the inxect formula andyou think about even challenger. Chalenter was from a time where theeconomy was in the tank, and so you needed to go in and grab the person bythe years and BEPLN Tocount you kN. Now they have challenged customer becausethe market conditions of shifted. So I think so often it's read thingsunderstand them fil them away access them appropriately and don't assumethat anyone person has got the answer...

...because I don't think that's true andthen I love things like looks like freconomics. You know all three ofthose books are great. I love anything by Michael Willis, I'm listening toundoing project right now, which Il kind of Ta Yo Conoman right. What'sthat yeah econom, that's exact rate, the CONOMEN Scao. What ar the way thatthe the Israeli army determined e? What people's Trinks were, where they workthe guys Ay boss Yeah? Have they read thinking fast and slow? ' Not reallythink fast as Lor. That is when I want to. I want to read o Tha influencebacking Alfooball street on my phone right now 's to listen to, but no Ineed to get thank you. Fassa, ut for good things, yeah. It's amazing, two.Last questions: Life Moto guiding principles, Andy like one aphorism orsomething you want to share with the young people out there, how they shouldapproach their life. So we were. I was onboarding reps right before I came andjumped on this podcast with you, and one of the things we talk about ispurpose because our companies, a e values, driven company, W we've got ouour five core values and you know, values to accompany oure like purposeto a person it's sort of delinds with through which everything is looked at,and I guess I would say that your purpose will change over life. SEASNSalike will change it, but today is the father of two girls under threebatifact. One just turned three last Wednesday, so I guess I can no OnverSayn that two girls under three years an one month, my purps ASE, shifted nowat this point to being a great dad or excuse me, being a great husband beinga great dad being a great leader in that order. But you know, if you hatalk to that me ten years ago, would have been to DOA great company to bepart of the partot experience to be a start of guying. So I would challengeeveryone out there to think about what your purpose is, and you know cove andseven habits talks about that. Really. What your purpose is is you shouldthink about your life start with you in mind and live like you want someone toread your Yord, you Moneday, and I will tell you that I hope on someone'sstanding atthe next time. I wear a type S at Sami, not wearing time Os. SomeI'm in a Boxtik aesouds constrict B, be like. I have really weak person tryingto strangle me the next time I'm wer in the tire which is when somebodystanding over my casket. I hope that they will say that I was. I was greatin my wife Kelly that I was I was there and available for those girls, becauseI mean I could drive toward money and be the best absolete bad the world.They could have all the things and never have relation with Meso. I wantto do that now, that's new in the last three years, because I have them andthen I hope greatly or io people will look back and say that I was. I was aninfluential in their sales career I'e, always love working with young reps,because one day I'm going to be the person with I first sales manager thatI soul, be man hes s yellet, as got somean so and I'll be that SB, and soI'm excited for that, and so I hope that people will e that'll be sometineable to do as Wel, but I hope that's what they say about when I et them gowell. You know, I think it's also beautiful what you just said, just thatyou put Kelly your wife above the I like the order. I guess I'll say that Ilike the order, because can' really be a great father. If you don't have agood marriage and a good foundation, so that's inpiring it's hard to be there for Hem. Somissgran is the Queein of the castle. I was out number O one o one. I'mdefinitely outnumber Doree Yeah eshe's. The number one prior Ms Grant is thenumber one blow. Girls Pos on her vheels well bless her heart as they sall right. So you guys just raised fifty million bucks, I'm sure you'rehiring. If people want to get in touch with Derek Grant, what is yourpreferred mechanism? Can they? How should they reach out to you yeah?Absolutely so get me up on winked in you can send me an email. It's justDerik do grant it sails offcom of Drek, not gr ant at Calesoffcom. Let me knowyou're looking because man, we are higher ind, so we don have to have youon the team. We Don have to have the opportunity tawit anyone in thisaudience, that is doing things to grow their sales career. I mean youraudience is exactly the folks that we thought to talk that fantastic, Derek.Thank you. So much you've been a real pleasure. It's been great to talk toyou and I can't wait to see you I'm sure in person. Sometimes him done anddone my sister in the city so I'll stop by and aggravate you while I'm up there,allright you're always welcome to it's. Not An aggravation, allright right,...

Hay, folks, Sam's corner really enjoyedthat conversation with Derek grant from sales loft on the day that theyannounced their fifty milliondollar seriesc. Fundray O congratulations tothem. I really liked Derik's comments about cadences. I think there's a lotof tactical information there that you can glean so Jerik's research and theand the research from the folks ot sales lofe tells us that thetraditional cadence of an eight by eight or ten by ten should continue onpast those ten days or eight days. Eight by eight needs eight touch pointsin eight days. Put It cypically two touch points on day, one three: Fiveand seven. The other thing that he said very specifically was always start witha phone call start with a phone call followed by an email that referencesthe voice, mapl voice, mout that you may have just left. I think that'sreally good feedback and it's always important to underscore the relevancethat continued relevance of these, the telephone in setting up meetings andgenerating interest from the prospects that we're selling to so never let goof that telephone. The power of the human voice remains strong with that.Thanks for listening well talk to you next time. I check out the show, notes,see upcoming guests and play more episodes from our incredible lineup ofsales leaders visit sales, hackercom podcast. You can also find the saleshacking podcast on itunes or Google play or anywhere that you consume yourpodcasts. If you enjoye this episode, please share with your peers on linkedan twitter or elsewhere special thanks again to this months. Sponsors at Gongsee more Gongdot, io forrd, sash sales tacker. And finally, if you want to getin touch with me, you can find me on twitter, at Sam f Jacobs or on Linkonat Linkdoncom, Sash and Sam f Jacobs, see next time.

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