The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

83. How to Operationalize Alignment w/ John Kaplan at Force Management

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This week on the Sales Hacker podcast, we speak with John Kaplan, President, Co-founder, & Managing Partner at Force Management.

John has over 20 years of executive experience in sales, leadership, and execution, specializing in corporate sales strategy and performance management. Before co-founding Force, he was SVP of International Sales Operations for PTC, a leading software developer for content, product life cycle management.

 

One, two, one, three, everybody, welcome to the sales soccer podcast. We're incredibly excited today to have a special show. This show is coming to you from an event that we held in New York on October seventeen. That event is called the revenue collective executive off site, and what we did there was we brought about eighty to ninety members of the revenue collective from all over the world together to hear and listen to and learn from each other and from some of the speakers. Now this speaker. His name is John Kaplan. He's the president and CO founder of force management. If you're not familiar with force, they're one of the firms and the organizations that really popularized the concept of medic and of really enterprise sales as a process, both as an art and a science, and John Talks through how to drive an organizational onlinement and how to prepare your entire organization for delivering and executing against a difficult enterprise sale. So it's a really interesting conversation and we had a lot of fun doing it live. Now, before we dive into the conversation, of course we want to thank our sponsors. The first is videyard. Email isn't dead, but it shore is boring. Add video to your emails to stand out in the inbox for free with videyard. videyard helped you easily record, send and track who is viewing your video content and three simple steps. First, easily recording yourself for your score your screen on camera right from your browser. Then share your videos and email with just a few clicks and finally, see when someone watches your videos and look at the analys get vide yard for free by using and visiting the yardcom forge sales haacker. Our second sponsors outreach, the leading sales engagement platform. Outreach support sales reps by enabling them humanized communications at scale, from automating the soul sucking manual work that eats upselling time to providing action or into tips on what communications are working best. Average has your back. Now, without further ado, let's listen to John Kaplan from force manager. So the next the next conversation we're going to have is going to be much more operational. Thanks again to Kelly, if you're still in their room, Kelly, amazing, amazing conversation and honestly, getting somebody from the investment community. To come in and be that candid and that authentic is just really special and and awesome. So thank you and we're equally excited and honor to have our next guest. If you haven't heard of are aren't familiar with force management, besides being one of the partners a revenue collective, they are some of the folks that, I'd always been told essentially invented, or at least popularized medic as an enterprise sales qualification methodology. They are in every conversation about the best enterprise sales consulting and training companies and I probably would have had them on the show and at the conference regardless. But we're incredibly excited to partner with them. They just do incredibly exceptional work. And so today we're going to be talking to John and Kaplan, who is one of the founders, if not the soul founder, one of the founders, one of the founders, of force management and managing partner. Let me just quickly tell you about his bio. He's a skilled consultant, presenter and facilitator over twenty years of executive experience and sales leadership and execution, specializing in corporate sales strategy and performance management. Before Co founding force, he was sep of international sales operations for PTC, a leading software developer for content product life cycle management. PTC and Oracle are essentially the two birthplaces of most wellknown enterprise sales leaders. Before PTC, nine years at Xerox and sales sales management, of sales development. A graduate of bullying Green State University with a Bachelor of Science Degree in Business Administration. John, welcome. Thank you. Thank you very much. Those are a little awkward. By those are a little awkward. Hey, couple things. Make sure you hold them close to okay, I think I would know how to do that. Okay, first of all, my hats off to you, Sam and this revenue collective. I think is just an incredible value add experience and really really relevant content and and experiences for you guys.

And then the second thing I just wanted to share with you to encourage you, as I have a tremendous amount of respect for any professional. I'm obviously very biased to sales and marketing professionals. I've been a sales and marketing person my entire life, my entire faessional life, but the commitment to hone your craft is something that I really respect and I just wanted to encourage you. You know you're surrounded. I had some talking to Steve From San Francisco. I just surrounded with really, really great talent in this room and I would encourage you to continue those sharing those experiences. I'm just I'm very, very impressive what you guys have built. Well, thank you, well done. We're excited to have you here. So let's give you the opportunity I just gave the elevator pitch for force. But quickly, beforere we dive into the content. Tell us what is force? What do you do? Who are you useful for? How do you do it? All that good stuff. Yeah, so force management is sales effect in this company. I think we're going on our sixteen year. We actually started the business sixteen years ago. Where former the two founders, myself and grant Wilson, our former PTC executives, and any of you guys have heard of PTC before? Okay, so some of you in the room. They were one of the most dynamics software companies on the planet. They went from zero to a billion dollars in less than ten years. The stock split five times and seven years what they were really really well known for was their predictability on Wall Street. So they they went forty three straight quarters without missing their number to Wall Street, and that's double digit revenue and profitability. So that's ten years which is really, really incredible. Now I didn't do that. I would just happen to be a a one of the sales leaders there, but I was how force mansment got started. I was working in Europe, living in Europe with my family. I had three children. We went over to Europe for an assignment over there to run Europe. I lived in Frankfurt, Germany, outside of Frankfort and a little town called bad soden, and I started off as a country manager there and then I started to take on more and more responsibility. And what typically happens with expats is if you're any good or, I don't know, if they don't have a spot for you back in the United States, they keep you there. So I wound up there for five years and I just wanted to come home. I wanted my I wanted my children to grow up in the United States. Nothing against any of the cultures. It was a unbelievable to of my children are fluent in German. They went back and went to school there at Mannheim University. So it was a wonderful experience, but I just wanted to come home and, you know, started force management on a whim. Basically, my father had passed away the year before and he was an incredible, incredible human being and he knew how to make a life. He didn't he probably wouldn't show up in the box scores as a great success from a like how we would measure success in this room. Or definitely I change my measurement of success after his passing. And we started force management as a lifestyle company and you we just tried to replace our corporate incomes and then we had a relevant point of view. We didn't invent medic medic was invented at PDC, but we didn't invent it. We just happen to operationalize it and bring it to as a qualification criteria. We kind of had a relevant point of view. Sales was drastically changing from an enterprise model to a more engagement model with multiple touches, and we I just I'd love to tell it was a great planned, great capitalized. You know, we bootstrapped it, used our own money, got really, really lucky and sixteen years later, here we are. That's awesome. And who do who's your ideal customer profile? You know, if some of the folks in here want to use force, who would be the right fits really good question, because we...

...actually do this with our customers. We say, yeah, who's your ideal customer? And companies that have ideal customers are really that much better than every customer is not a great customer or any you know, you go to a company, say who's your ideal customer and they don't have that's actually one of the criteria that we use to help companies. But for us, when you think about we'll share some of the principles that we focus on. But you know, it really all starts with the men and women in this room. And what I mean is is when there is a strong sales leader in the room, and I'm not discounting marketing. I'll talk about the marketing folks in a moment. Marketing has drastically change from when I was growing up to what it provides today and what it does today. But we are customer is typically the crow or the VP of sales, and when you have a very, very strong and when I say, a very, very strong vp of sales, that they know that sales training and development is not an event, it's a process, and when they're committed to that and when they're committed to attaching that to a critical business issue and make it a kind of a top three priority for the company, and so therefore it aligns to some significant business issues, they have the ability to and the presence to collaborate. I'm going to share a lot more on this because I'm also talking about what I'm going to encourage you to do in your roles to collaborate and get the company to align. It doesn't matter what you're selling when you when you think about the principles we're going to share with you, it doesn't matter what you're selling. I don't care if you're selling water. You still have to differentiate, you still have to operationalize and put the right people in the right places, you still have to put together the plan, to make the plan and you still got to have a great ability to attract and retain top talent, and those are kind of the four areas that we typically wrap our arms around. But our ideal customer, it all starts with that individual that gets it that's like, you know, sales training is an event, but development of a sales organization to highly differentiate yourself from an operational and a customer experience perspective is really, really where we tend to focus our resources. And is it fair to say that, because this is a massive trend to cross the high growth ecosystem, there's lots and lots of companies that start off at the SNB or commercial level and they want to build enterprise sales muscles but they do not have that experience or expertise. Is that a good moment maybe to think about calling you guys? Well, it's really good. So when we talk about like kind of the four areas that we're going to talk about, we put some stuff. Hopefully this is I know it's not interactive. We got live streaming going on that will try to make it as best we can, but we put some stuff on the table, all of these principles of these kind of four areas of effectiveness and you can start to look at those. They should be on the tables. They look like for quadrants, all of those areas that are really critically important and they're critically important at different stages and they mean different things to different stages. So a lot of times people look at us and they say, Oh, this is a company that will just you know, they kind of are because of our backgrounds, kind of like enterprise selling and that kind of stuff. But you look at most of the companies were dealing with today, a lot of them are in the startup phase. I don't want to say most, but a lot of them are in startup phase. Then they moved you know, foundation phase and then they moved to some type of an expansion phase. When you think about these four critical areas, they're all relevant in each one of these areas, but they tend to morph a little bit and we'll spend a little bit of time talking about that. But it doesn't matter if you're in a startup phase, it doesn't matter if you're in a foundation phase, it doesn't matter if you're in an expansion phase, and you might call those things obviously different things, but these principles that we're going to share with you today, I think are really, really relevant no matter where you are, got to be thinking about them. Okay, so let's dive in. So again we talk about we talked about it in slack, we talked about it in our community we talk about alignment. The word alignment. Yeah, you know, figuring out what exactly it means can is a...

...long and arduous journey for most of us. When you talk about operationalizing alignment and driving functional alignment to align the sales strategy with the corporate growth strategy, how do you do that? What do you do that? What questions do you ask? Really good, I think. I never thought that this word was going to become like a buzzword. Alignment. How many of you feel like that's kind of a buzz word? Yeah, so I never thought was going to become a buzz word. It became kind of like a critical component of effectiveness, and your last presenter kind of hit on this a little bit and I would be aggressive if I were you. When you're moving to different companies, when you're you either believe what you do matters or you don't. So when I look in the eyes of men and women out there today, I can tell whether you believe what you do matters. So you don't. And those actually are some of the most successful sales and marketing leaders that I've ever met are the ones that kind of believe what they do matters, but alignment. I like to break up in two different things and and I'll try to piggyback on the previous presentation a little bit, I look for alignment and companies, and most companies it's rare to have alignment. But I break down alignment in two areas, executive alignment and operational alignment. So how many of you interviewed in a company and you're talking to the different executives and you can tell that that's us, kind of a silo based company. And what are some of the challenges? Just scream them out, like what are some of the challenges of being in a silo based company? What happens? What bad things happened to you? You're calling on different customers. Nobody agrees with the concept of an ideal customer. Is Really Good? What else? You're competing priorities. So who wins? The people have been there the longest. You should be asking these questions. What are some of the biggest initiatives the company has put forth in the last few years? Walk me through how those got funded. Walk me through how those came to light. Walk me through how you executed against them. You either believe what you do matters or you don't. You're not just looking for a job. I hope this organization. You know, being in an organization like this, it kind of gives you the spirit and the courage to know that it's it really is all about you. Sales and marketing, great sales and marketing is a difference between good and great. So executive alignment is big for us. We look at executive alignment and typically executives are on different parts of an organization and those organizations then tend to become siloed because their personalized in some way. We had a little small company and we started the company and I happen to be a little bit more customer facing and the other partner is massively good at customer facing but way better at operational and that's kind of how we lit up the company and we didn't fight for trying to step on each other's toes. That's easy in the startup phase, but then everybody has an opinion as you continue to grow. So these are want you to write down these questions. I think these are fundamental questions I would ask any company, and it doesn't matter if you're transitioning to a job or if you're in a job right now where we look for alignment, as these four centser questions. The am I giving you what you want, by the way? Yeah, okay, good, keep going. All right. So the first question is what problems do you solve for your customers? You want to find alignment and the company. Walk into your next executive meeting, write these four questions up on the board and ask all the executives, if you're part of the executive team, ask them to answer these questions privately and then take them, put them in a you know, put them in a hat, and then open them up and see what you get. So first one is, what problems do you solve for your customers? Second one is how specifically do we solve those problems? How specifically do we solve those problems? Third One, how do we solve them differently or better than anybody else? How do we solve them differently or better than anybody else? And the fourth one, where have we done it before? Where have we done it before? My experience is these are incredible we call the essential questions.

These are incredible examples of whether you have good alignment or you don't. And this is actually how we begin with companies. We walk into executive board rooms, we write those four suncher questions on the table or on the white board, we ask them, we tell the founders that they have to go last and giving their answer. And what do you think we find? If you did this in your company right now? If you did it in your company right now, we chuckle a little bit, but this should hurt your stomach because it is the single biggest differentiator from effectiveness in your organizations, sales and marketing organizations, and therefore for your companies, because as goes sales and marketing, as goes a company. You agree. Okay, so if you don't have alignment on those four essential questions, you're dead in the water. You're dead and you'll have silos, you'll have different the product people think different things, the marketing people think different things, the salespeople think different things, and we find that that's the single biggest differentiator and so we decided to focus there for alignment. So let's say we do that, and I think we've all had some experience like this in the past where we go through and we ask and everybody's got a different answer. So what is the actual process by which you drive that alignment and was the commercial part, we get to talk about ourselves and what we did. I'm just saying, you know this concept of like white collar prison. Yeah, how do you get to alignment? Like what is the process by which you get there? He's very smooth because I said, look, I don't want to come up here and just talk about force management. I'd I mean, I wish I had the opportunity when I were your ages. I know there's some people will maybe my age in here, but you know, I really commend you guys for being it. So I want to give something back to you. Then just rather about talk about ourselves. So that was a great transition. Thank you, but so what? But what we do is something. Has Anybody been through something called White Collar prison? So cut few of you in the room have been through that. What that is is we have to get the answers to those four such a questions, and the way we engage with our clients is the fundamental answers to those four sunchil questions become something that's called the value framework, and the value framework then it's a positioning to focusing on creating a customer experience which really understands the before state, before you even exist. Before you even call on a customer, what those problems are and challenges, what the negative consequences of those are, how big is the problem to an afterstate, what it could look like, and then we align it to positive business outcomes for customers. Then what we do is we teach them to take those positive business outcomes and interlace them with what we called required capabilities, and those required capabilities are the differentiated technical capabilities of your firm that are from the customers point of view. And then we make sure the customer knows how we you are going to measure success. And so that framework then turns into four sellers, turns into this concept of okay, the company's going to build something for me that's going to teach me the positive and then we simplify it. And any great seller really understands this. I have to understand the positive business out we call it the three takeaways. I got to understand the positive business outcomes of my customer before I do anything. And I can tell this go back to your deals that you're working on. You guys in queue for right now and you came to this meeting. It's awesome. It's awesome you're there on the top beginning of que for either on top of Your Business or your sweat and bullets in December fourteen. I did not do it then. Yeah, but so look at a deal and you can tell whether or not this is in place right now. Will you ask your sellers right now what's the biggest business issue facing this customer? Write that down right now. Go and say what's the biggest business issue? And most of your sellers won't be able to. They haven't made the leap from their technical capabilities to the business issue facing the customer. But all the data tells us the customers care number one, that you understand their...

...business. Your customers care number one. So what our methodology does is it takes the technical capabilities of a company and links them to the positive business outcomes of their customers and then creates a framework, kind of an operating rhythm. And what you heard about the white collar prison is the only way to get that done and build that framework. We got to take the executives off site. They we take the executives offsite, they fight. You can imagine going from a silo based company to a to and all I would say is just put the customer in the center of your thinking. How do you break down silos? Easy, this way is put a customer, either in the room or rhetorically or not literally, but put the customer in the process and that is the first way it's going to break down silos. So we take them off site. They call it white collar prison. It takes about three and a half days, but we come out of that with a framework that not only is used to train an organization, it was used originally to align the organization. How many of you would join a company today? I got a bigger question for you. How many of you joined a company and they didn't have the answers to those four sunch of questions? What's worse is you didn't ask them and you're finding out now, or over the last year or two or whatever, the average lifespan for you in this room. How long is it, by the way? Along eighteen months. Eighteen months. What can you get done in eighteen months? That's why I'm going to encourage you the stuff we're going to talk about today. I'm going to encourage you to get this stuff in place, because your ten years should be a lot longer than that. Okay, all right. One of the things you talked about when you're talking about a linement, is aligning to business level objectives that are differentiated from revenue or sales objectives. Yeah, give us a few minutes. Or what do you mean by that, because I think that that is actually a huge pitfall for people where we're only talking about the revenue target, we're only talking about the forecast, and there's much stakeholders in the room that they I guess they care about it, but that's not their central passion. How do we align run business? Subjects. Really good point, you know I but the good news is I can't think of any company right now that doesn't have revenue as an objective, as a business objective, and you're feeling it right now. And most of the companies have some other objectives, but everything gets trumped by revenue or profitable revenue or Ebadal with depending upon it's all about growth and in and you know what you make and what you keep. However, the most experienced sales and marketing leaders that I've ever seen have the ability to attach their collaborators. So if you're kind of like a lone cowboy or cow person, if you're kind of a lone person, alone individual, and you don't have. If I was on a board, one of the first things I would look at for you as your collaboration skills and I would want to know your experience of how do you help others attach? So, first of all, any company that doesn't have sales and marketing at the tip of the spear, because that's the closest point to the customer experience. That's not going to change forever. Now how you go and deliver the experience to customers, that's rapidly changing. But you being a collaborator and having the ability to attach what you do to what the CFO cares about, to what the product people care about, to what the customer success people care about, to what the customer experience people care about, to you get you get that. You get the gist. So what we look for, and individuals like you, and we help individuals like you do, is to attach what you do for a living to make it a top three, top one, two, three part. First of all, today it's easy. It's never been such a great place to be in our profession, yours and mine. We're still doing the same thing. It's all about creating a positive customer experience. There's not one company in this room that doesn't have that in the top three, and if...

...it doesn't have it in the top three, I would really get a stomach ache about it. You might be in the wrong company because you're going to miss the boat. If they're not focusing on creating a great customer experience and you're not helping people kind of aligned to that, it's going to be a very, very difficult situation. So that's what we mean by aligning to priorities. But make it simple, keep it simple. So give us an example there. I think there was a time when you were coaching some of that needed to convince their CFO or just walk asters an anecdote of a client that you had where you were driving towards business level objectives as opposed to just revenue objectives. Well, I think the example you're speaking of is a few several years ago, we had a somebody in your position basically tell us, hey, look, I got this and it's kind of a red flag. Right. So a champion that's not a champion that is not willing to collaborate and give you access to other parts of an organization to get this alignment is a big red flag. Now many of us, where that as a badge of courage to kind of prove to companies like ours I can get this done. Like you're a sales effect this company. I'm going to show you how effective I am. That's like the last thing we want to see because we know when it's not aligned. You know, I think there's an old saying that says every last deal, every soul deal, every successful deal, has a million fathers and mothers. Right, every lass deal has an orphan and it's you. Right, so if you're a non collaborator, you could be an orphan. And so so in this example, what we actually did was we we knew that we needed to get to the CFO. We knew we needed to get to the CFO early in this example to attach it to the mentality was we need some sales initiatives, we need some sales training. They needed transformation. So and this person was new in the company, so they hadn't gone to the CFO before. So it was a little shaky, right, but we just encourage them, and all of you you can courage your sellers to that. You know, go to the CFOS early, go to people early, and they give you advice. You with me go late and they critique you. And so what we asked this person to do was to take us early to the financial people early to understand the critical things that the company was trying to do from a financial perspective. But wait, you're a sales training company or sales spectrum is company. Put that on the side for a second. What are the most critical things? and was actually a fantastic experience for this individual because, going early, the CFO gave them a tremendous amount of respect and credit. Didn't give me much respect and credit. There's actually two chairs in the room. This is a true story. There were two chairs in the room. One of them look like this and the other one looked like this. Which one do you think the CEFO put me in? It is this fun. I actually sat in a room with a chair like this and like that, so I could kind of get a flavor for how the CFO was kind of feeling about like what I did for a living. But it wound up being a great experience because this person felt it for themselves that they needed collaboration skills, they needed to attach to bigger business issues that he just asked for advice. How does something like this get done in our organization. How many of you are new in the last six months of a of your tenure? Is what I'm talking about. Go early to people and ask for advice. You've been there eighteen months. You've the reason why you don't ask for advice after eighteen months, since you're feeling like God, I should already know it. Be Humble. Be Humble. That's thousands of years old. Go Ask people for advice. You'll get great outcomes. You talk a lot about sales as a discipline, that we, as sales and marketing leaders, revenue leaders, have to have a commitment to being truly elite, and I think what you do is you layer in the sales effectiveness quadrant. When you do that, walkers for that framework and what you mean by that really cool. So I'm a simple guy. I got lucky. I was...

...a college football player. I thought I was going to be a professional football player. Tell my whole second like what, what position did you play? No, that's not important. That's not important. That's a thousand years ago anyways. Nobody even believes I played anymore. But anyways, sales was a very similar experience because it was about discipline, it was about playbooks. It was about commitment to excellence. It was about out working people and for anybody out there that thinks that that's gone away, you're out of your mind. You know, the most uncommon people are the plant on the planet of the ones that are that are willing to do the things that the common man or woman won't do. And and that's why I love, kind of a kind of love what what we do. But here's the point of view. It's in front of you. These four quadrants became the four areas of critical effectiveness, and I think that's simple. It's there thousands of years old. We didn't invent them, but we just kind of packaged them into something. If you look at how this thing kind of rolls out, there's two main things that we kind of look at for companies, how you engage with your customers and how the management team operates. So really quickly, can I just walk through these real quick? Okay, let me walk through these really quick so in the upper left hand quadrant it's it's all about having command of your message. So we got marketing people in the room and we've got salespeople in the room. This is the intersection of your greatness it's the answer to those four essential questions. We start there because we believe it's so galvanizing that nothing else works in a company if you can't answer those four central questions and then you can't come up with the playbooks and the operational methodology to make it consumable for the sellers and to make a consumer before your customer and your customers experience. So that's where we start, ninety nine percent of the time, as in that upper left hand quadrum. As you move down, the next thing is how does the organization operate? And I really, really love this because the answers to those four central questions, then they get operationalized. You need to have this in your companies. You need to have this in the next company you go to when investors come. You need to be able to explain this to investors because this is what they're buying. So now it's about how do you deliver that customer experience, and I love going through this exercise with customers because, okay, first of all, I want to see your sales process. Ninety nine percent of the people write up a sales process but it's missing one thing. What do you think it's missing? Always what do you think it's missing? The customer? Is always missing the customer. So the first thing I would expect to see in your sales process is the customer. But most of us in this room, and I'm not being critical, I'm trying to be encouraging, don't have the customer in our sales process. Oh, we have commitment points and they're going to do this and they're going to sign this piece of paper and they're going to what is the how does the customer buy from us? How do we engage? And then I look at who's doing what, when? What are the resources that we have? This is also how you appropriate your resources, depending upon what level you're at inside of a company. Excuse me, whether you're a startup, whether you're found, going to foundation or expansion, it's you can't have extra resources laying around. This is the way I look at to see what people are doing, who's doing what, when, and how is that value from those four sunchial questions getting delivered to the customer? And then the biggest thing that I love the most is what is the customer supposed to be doing? So most of the sales organizations that we look at, they don't have something called a customer verifiable outcome. So if you really believe what you do matters, then your customer should have some decision points that they should participate in their own rescue. Most sales processes don't have that. If we do this, then the customer has to do this when, early and often. And so we look at the we call about having command of the sale, who's doing what when, and making sure it's aligned to the way that our customers buy, by sales stage,...

...by customer buying stage. It makes sense, right, you guys all, I'm just trying to give you some encouragement. Most of you have a sales process, but you don't put those critical things in there, like map it to the customer experience, because you're going to see some disjoint immediately. You're trying to get a customer to do something in this stage, but that's not the buying stage they're in and that's why they're not buying, because you're asking them in the wrong stage. So it makes sense. So that is what we call having command of the sale and engagement model. As you move over to the right, here the management operating rhythm and the management operating rhythm. It's thousands of years old. Keep it simple. The greatest leaders on the planet have all had command of two things. The first one is having command of your plan, the plan to make the plan, and they have the ability to transfer that knowledge or that that passion for the plan to make them. How many of you feel like you're alone as the sales leader in the room? You're in the fourth border right now. Feels pretty lonely, doesn't it? And sometimes you're you're wondering, how do I translate and transfer that urgency? And the greatest leaders I've ever seen are the ones in this kind of this plan to make the plan. They transfer the urgency down to the sales rep level, down to the seller level, by creating this kind of mentality, like having a franchise model that says, Hey, we have a plan to make the plan for a company. Will share that with you, but you need to create you need to give them guidance. You need to create your plan to make the plan, like being a franchise Z and where the franchise or and there are certain guidelines that you can help them with. We can get more specific about that. You can come find us on www dot managementcom. Got A lot of free content with blogs and that kind of stuff. We try to make it simple for people. And then do you have the ability to translate that down to a highly produce pictable event, a highly predictable because you have a plan? To make the plan? And, by the way, the number one reason why you guys don't stay, why we don't stay in those jobs any more than eighteen months, is why you don't make your number. And then, okay, why didn't we make the number? It's what we're talking about in all of these categories. We didn't make the number because the company wasn't aligned. We didn't make the number because we didn't have the right resources in the right place. We didn't make the number because we didn't do a good job of identifying our ideal customers and then creating these franchise models in these territories that you with me. And then the last one is having commanded the talent, and commanded the talent's nothing more than really analyze this. If you do these other three quadrants, most people do it backwards. They go and try to recruit people to a company without these other areas of effectiveness nailed. That's the wrong way to do it, because once you nail your message and your process and your methodology and the way that you kind of go to market and the companies that you're going to call on, then you understand what it's going to take to go build a great sales force. Companies do it backwards. They go get the wrong people, good people, but wrong people, and they're the wrong people because they don't have those experiences. So those become the four areas of sales effectiveness. That was awesome. Thank you, you're welcome. Last topic before we go into Qa is some of the thing that you've talked a lot about guts in our conversation stations, about leaders that have the guts and the urgency and the courage to drive change, to do all of these things, to implement the sales effectiveness quadron effectively, to operationalize and alignment. What do you mean by guts and how do we get there, and give us some examples of that. Okay, I'm very passionate about this topic. I'm a passionate person. So sorry, I don't mean to be screaming at you this morning, but exactly like it. I want to like story. Don't be so selfconscious. You're doing great. Okay, so I'm going to give you this with a little love, but you got to own it. You got to have the guts to own it. A lot of people go into these jobs and they because...

I said, you have to have collaboration skills. Can I stand to you know? Yeah, so you got to have collaboration skills, you got to have you know, you got to be able to build consensus. At the end of the day, the people that I see are the most successful in these roles on sales and marketing side are the ones that believe that they own it and when they show up in front of the boards, when they show up in front of the executive teams, when they show up in front of their troops, they own it. And what I mean by that is there's a lot of reasons and excuses why things don't happen. You own it, you don't necessarily have to own the success. This is the hard part. My grandmother used to say you need the money, not the credit, so give the credit away. You with me, give somebody else the credit. It's hard in these roles because you're trying to establish your value in such a short period of time. But I will tell you, the guts that I've seen are the ones that are say, okay, we're going to take on a sales initiative, I'm going to have I get a little budget for training or whatever. What the heck is that going to do? You're going to bring some people in, you're going to do some discovery questions, you're going to do once the last. You know what I'm talking about. And a lot of times you guys don't even own it, like you're having some other departments create sales training for you. Why are you doing that if you don't care about it? You can't care about it less than somebody else in your company. So you got to own it. You got to own the good about it, you got to own the bat about it. Okay, I don't want to lecture to you, I'm just trying to give you some spirit. The other thing that I think is gutsy is you have to focus on it's hard, you're tired, you got your family's under stress, your understress. You got to focus on the why. The greatest leaders that I've seen, the gutsiest leaders that I've ever seen, are the ones that come to their organization and say this is why we're doing this, because for any great why. It makes the what and the how a lot easier. You with me? So focus on the why and give your self some leeway with your troops. It's Gutsy to go to your troops and let him fight back a little bit. There's a great book out there. I don't know if you've read it. It's called extreme ownership. Have you read it by Jocko? I'm probably but butchering his name, jocko willing. I love the book because this concept of ownership, extreme ownership, was really, really powerful and in the book he talked about you know, they were going to go do and the I could translate this to some business things they're going to he's asking his team to go do some stuff that his team doesn't really believe in, but he gave them the freedom to discuss it. But at the end of the day, his decision, her decision. We're going and this is why. But I'd like to know why you think it's going to work or not work. That takes guts. A lot of these conversations don't take place. But if you're going to spend eighteen months minimum at something, you got families, you got significant others, you've got it's a serious profession. Why wouldn't you have the guts to do that? And then the last thing I want to do is just give you a little encouragement. Take care of yourself. Have the guts to take care of yourself. One of the biggest reasons why we don't last in these jobs as we flame out. How many of you seen your friends flame out? Okay, I'm not going to ask for show hands. How many of you on the verge of flaming out? Okay, but there's three things I've learned over the last twenty years that I just like to share with you really quick have the guts to do this, and I called them. I don't call them there. They've been around for a long, long time. The practice of gratitude, the practice of flow and the practice of service. The healthiest people on the planet I've ever met, regardless of job, are the people that have those the guts to do those three things, to take care of themselves right. The practice of gratitude is not hard. It's so simple it's unbelievable. But the human brain is not capable of sharing gratitude and any other emotion, anxiety, fear, anger, sadness. The minute gratitude is introduced, it takes over everything and I'm telling you,...

...not only you but people on your team's if you can have an environment of grateful people, the results are just astounding. And then the next thing is the practice of flow. What happens in these jobs, would happen to me and these jobs of doing what you do, have a tremendous amount of respect for what you do, is you lose your flow. And a flow state is just some kind of mental state that you can get into where you completely lose yourself. So some of you bike, some of you read, some of you fish, some of whatever it is. If you're not doing that in that eighteen month stint or whatever and you put that on hold, you become unhealthy. So the greatest, most powerful people I've met on the planet they have all three of these. Does it make sense? Some type of flow state. Now the sad thing if I asked you what are you grateful for, a lot of times you start telling me about what your problems are. So that's a sign. When I ask you what your flow state is, you tell me what you like to do, but you're not doing it for the last eighteen months or so, and then the last one is to is purposeful people. So it's the practice of service and not to get to Preachy, but I'm just trying to give you a little spirit. The healthiest people I've met in your roles are the ones that realize that they're doing things for others and they think that way. You know, we have a mantra at force management that says we're helping people at force management that can't help themselves in both the business world and in the community, and it creates unbelievable results in the organization. So having the guts to do those kind of three things right, to own it, to take care of yourself and the Middle One, I said, is to really really focus on the why. Those were the gutsie things. Thanks, John. You're welcome. Let's get got around of applause. Let's do we've got. We've got time for a couple of questions. Any questions? any Qa out there? I scared the crap out of these people. Nobody wants to talk to John. If if we got a question from David I. It's actually a customer testimonial. So Urs, a security has been working with your company for ten years. I joined four months ago as the head of America's and I participated in the white collar jail, as we use things, and the command of the message and command of the sale and I thought it was really excellent, really well done. So I just wanted to thank you for that. You're also then Ford to me out out to force manage. Yeah, thank you very much, I appreciate you. Thank you please. So, at a conversation earlier with Andrea, we were talking about sales and marketing alignment. That's always a hot topic. I'm sure that many people in this room have struggled with communicating what, depending on what they're on the marketing or sale side. So what advice would you give when you when you chart out your organization, you ask the four questions would advice would you give to a sales eader, because that's my role? Yeah, and how to how to align sales and market yeah. Well, I hear the excuses all the time and I like to say the excuse department is closed. Well, I talk to sales leaders and I go talk to the sales leaders. Are like well, marketing doesn't have a clue and I'm like what do you mean? Well, they don't create anything, they don't Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Bah, Bah, Bah, and I go to the marketing people. In the go of the marketing. The salespeople would just read what we put together. They try to do everything one up. You guys seeing the story before right. So what I would encourage you to do is, before you take these roles, how many of you just taking jobs to take jobs? Life is too short. So, before you take these roles, go meet these people. Tell me about your philosophy of putting the customer first. How do you do that? I'm talking to the marketing people. I go to the marketing people. Give me some examples of what we already have. You know what happens in marketing. They last a little bit longer than the salespeople. They have all of these materials and the new seller comes in, new salesperson comes in and says we're going to do it this way and they try to throw everything out the window. That's ludicrous. You go find out what each other's doing. You put a customer in the room. What I would do is I'd go bring a customer, bring your best customer, or go visit a...

...customer and go talk to them about the things that are critical for them. Both of you go or both departments go, and that way you bring down these silos. Put a customer at the Fort, the front of your thinking, and things will become clear. Think in each other shoes. The marketing people are been tat. Do you know how their task you know how they're measured? If you're a seller and you don't know that, you don't have a partner and you're not being a good partner. If you're a marketing person and you don't go to the seller and ask the same questions, at the end of the day, when your organizations come together, very, very powerful things take place. You should be a part of the interview process. You should be a part of the recruiting process. That's my suggestion to you. No matter where you are and what stage, it's never too late to go. You can always go and fall on your sword. I think it's easier for sellers to fall on their swords because they do it every day. You go to the marketing people and say, Hey, look, I want to Uunderstand for your perspective, what you're being asked to do, what you're being tasked to do and why. I want to know how we can make your job easier. It never happens. It's uncommon. Most of the sales leaders in the room they haven't done that and you're just missing a great opportunity. My marketing people and my company, they run the company, because for us it's all about creating a customer experience and we don't know what that experience is unless we understand the customer. So that's my suggestion, John. If folks want to reach out to you, get in touch with you. What's your preferred method of communication? WWW DOT force MANAGEMENTCOM. You'll find all of us on the website. I'm Jake Kaplin at force MANAGEMENTCOM. But I would encourage you to first of all, I'm really fired up for you because I'm serious, I never had anything like this when I was your age is and I'm not, you're not that all, not that old, but what I'm saying is, Hey, ten fifteen years ago, these things didn't exist, and so you know, I really really encourage you. What I like about what we do for living as we put all this content, a lot of it up on like you do, and we've shared you guys brought us in to do some blogs and that kind of stuff, which we thank you for but it's all free content. If you have any questions, go consume that content. If you have any questions, just reach out to us. We'd love to interact with you. Thanks, John. Let's give the round up. Thank you. Thank you. Hey, everybody and Sam Jacobs. This is the salesacker podcast and you're listening to SAM's corner. I really hope you like that interview and that discussion with John Kaplan, the president and CO founder force management. I think you know they talked about this concept of like color prison, and the purpose of sort of confining everybody in that way is really to drive consistent messaging and you know a lot of different folks always have this the story of going around and asking ten different people in our organization what is the company's missions, what are its values, and everybody giving a different answer. And it may seem trivial or may seem unimportant, but it really is a critical feature of well executing organizations on the go to market side, their ability to align messaging, to understand who their buyer is, to understand what is the Roi, what is the return that the buyer can expect based on the their ability to solve that business problem then you can understand that, you know, even putting aside all of John's enthusiasm, passion, understanding and just that level of empathy, of focusing on the buyer, putting the customer at the center of the organization, not thinking about features in terms of the things that you've built and you're so proud of, but thinking about features as a means to an end of solving somebody's business problem. That will never steer you wrong in the game of sale. So I thought that conversation with John was excellent. If you're interested in learning more about force management, feel free to take them to check them out online force MANAGEMENTCOM. Before we go, we want to thank our sponsors. The first is videyard. Video is the new future...

...of communication. Emails and dead but it sure is boring. Add videos your emails to stand out in the inbox for free with vidyard. Go to videardcom. Forward SLA sales saccer from our information or second sponsors outreach, leading sales engagement platform and of course, if you want to reach me, you can linkedincom forward, slash the word in and then forward Sam f Jacobs and talk to you soon. By.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (419)