The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 months ago

177. Trust-Building Strategies Every Seller Should Own w/ Moeed Amin


In this episode of the Sales Hacker Podcast, we have Moeed Amin , Founder and CEO at Proverbial Door and expert on the neuroscience of trust and decision-making. Join us for a great conversation about how buyers choose sellers, building (or breaking) trust, and common psychological mistakes sellers make.

What You’ll Learn

- Why sales is about trustworthiness

- Why Moeed says cold calls are horsesh*t

- Integrating your personal and work life to increase transparency

- Common ways that sellers fail to build trust

Show Agenda and Timestamps

- About Moeed Amin & Proverbial Door [2:40]

- What neuroscience teaches about buyer decisions [11:17]

- Ways to establish trust with customers [14:39]

- Why you should audit your personal life for trustworthiness [21:45]

- Common mistakes sellers make that break trust [25:00]

- Sam’s Corner [31:55]

One two one: Three: Three: Everybody atSam Jacobs, welcome to the sales socker podcast today on the show we've gotMaida mine mowed is the founder in the Cuo, a company called proverbial door.It's a sales, consulting sales training company that helps companies establishthe right sales and frustrum is also somebody that's on a credible amount ofresearch on trustworthiness and why trust is so important to establishing agreat relationship with your buyer into closing more deals. So we have a greatconversation before we get there. We've got three sponsors for the show. Thefirst is out reach. Our reach have been a long time sponsor the podcast theyjust launch in a way to learn out reach on out or just the place to learn howout we does out reach everything's backed up by date. When you go outreturn out, were you learn how they do all of the things that they do runaccount face? Plays man at Reps, build revenue manage virtual offense, all ofit so go to outreach odio for slash on out reach to see what they've got goingon. This podcast is also sponsored by Pavilion Devilin, the key to gettingmore out of your career. A private membership connects you with thenetwork of thousands of like mind of peers, thirteen different schools aspart of Pavilion University, Mentorship, coaching and even master mine groupsthat we call small councils unlock your professional potential with a pavilionmembership leaders at every stage and their teams can get started to day atjoined pavilion and, finally, e got a new sponsor on the show. Er Call welove ARCO, we use Air Call at pavilion. Air Calls a cloud based voice platformthat integrates seamlessly with popular productivity and help EST tools fromcalm monitoring and whispering integrations with your cram and realtime. Analytics Air Call can help termo charge your sales rup productivity seta new standard for sales, POTITII Y and performance by switching to a phonesystem. That's best friends, with your cram go to Arcala for more information.Great sm over are called Jeffrey Kers and R V P of Marketing Carley Dell camefrom ercall. We Love Air Call now without further due. Let's listen myconversation with Maida mine, everybody at Sam Jacobs, welcome to theSales Hacker podcast today on the show. We've got maid Amin for over twentyyears. Moid has been obsessed with how and why people make decisions hisjourney started when he graduated in neuroscience, where he learned aboutthe brain structure and the impact this has in the psychology of influence anddecision making fast forward several years, and he has won various salesawards and lead sale seems for small companies and billion dollar brands. Hefound it proverbial door because he was frustrated with the current advice andtraining on sales and persuasion sales as a noble profession, and he is on amission to elevate the whole profession and give sellers the best tools andstrategies to become incredible persuaders without compromising ontheir values and changing who they are mowed. Welcome to the show. Thank you,Sam Ond pleasure, to be and excited fordiscussion today. Well, I'm excited for it too. So I mentioned the name of thecompany. I didn't explicitly say you are the CEO and founder of a companycalled proverbial door. Tell us what is proverbial door proverbial dor existsto really change how sales is viewed in...

...the entrepreneur community, as well asthe sales community itself. There is a plethora of new Bte businesses,predominantly led by technical founders or subject matter, expert founders witheither no understanding or experience of commercialization, which is salesand marketing, or they have a very warped view of what good sales lookslike an our job in proverbe doors to help those founders. Do it in the rightway and see radical growth, but in a way that's healthy in a way, that'sethical and long term growth and actually increases the value of theirbusinesses. So when they have that exert strategy, you know they'reselling it for far higher than they would. If they did it another way andthen the other part of it is really just to help sales. People get to a consistent one hundred andtwenty percent plus club, and also for those who are high performers to staythere, because you know the world is changing and and it's impacting howsales is currently being performed. So that's really the existence of ofprovocator. Why why I started the business? What do you think themisconception is that founders have the warped view in your words that theyhave about selves? More is better right, so growth comes necessary from hiringmore sales people. So that's the first one, because really they don't thinkabout any precision when it comes to who they're selling to and why theythink that sales has to be feature, benefit, benefit or product lead,there's very little customer understanding or very little deepcustomer understanding. Those are kind of the two, very, very big ones that wesee and those translate into things like you know, a hundred cold calls aday right. I mean this is gon sound controversial, but it s total horseship.It really really doesn't work the average person when we look to thenumbers and I'm part of a group in a research group that looks at this. Youknow we saw something something ridiculous, like less than one percentconversion rate on average yeah, a twenty two percent, typically yeah, andit's just a hugely inefficient way to connect with with your buyers and yourand your man, your buying community. So those are kind of the two two main ones.There are quite a few others. For example, sales is still disconnectedfrom marketing marketing. Is You know, they're beingtold to provide LE generation through email campaigns et ca, but again theyhave no idea about the customers they're going after they have. No, theyhaven't really done any work about who the ideal client profile is. There'salso the misconception, and if I hire a chief revenue officer, then my salesare going to go up, so this is going to sound, controversial, again totalworship. If you haven't done the work, you told me that I could swear right. Ilisten horse. Shit is one of the great words in the English language, so youknow you can say it for twenty minutes straight and I wouldn't be upset. Ionly use these words when I have, when...

I'm very emotional, about those thingsright, because I've seen this time and time again where founders will find achief revenue officers, often with good track record right. So nothing reallywrong there. It's not their fault, but that person may not be the right personfor your business because of several factors such as your buying community,the products and services, your position and even your culture as abusiness. But if you hire a chief revenue officer who doesn't have theskills to create the right sales infrastructure in your company, whichwill therefore determine the behaviors of your selves team, then you're reallyhiring someone. That's not white for your business, so making sure that youhave the right infrastructure, such as the right targeting the right, client,ideal, client profile or some idea of it. The right reward and compensationstructures. Things like that, if you don't have those those things correct,then you're really just hiring someone to create a sales machine without anyintelligence. So those are some of the common mistakes that we see foundersimplementing when it comes to their sales strategy, and it makes perfectsense- and I completely agree- I want to dive into a ton of questions, butbefore I get there, what's your background, where are you from you knowlike? How did you get into the sales game in the first place? What were someof your formative experiences yeah purely by accident, and it was never-and I think, that's quite a common answer and actually that's what I wantto change, because cells should be something that becomesmore intentional as a career, but I started in neuroscience. I graduated inneuro signs and I converted to law, because I didn't really know what to doand my mom was a lawyer and I thought well hey, I might enjoy it, and this isin London or somewhere else. Is it yeah sorry? So I was born and raised inLondon Yeah. So this was all London. Well, the UK I studied in MagstUniversity, so this was all in the UK and I ended up doing. I completed thelaw, a conversion course, which is another degree I completed, what'scalled as the l PC, which is the legal practice course here in the UK to tobecome a solicitor, and then you have two years of training, basically andkind of a few months into the training I just realized. I really didn't likethis. At all my fault, I probly should have done more research about that andwhen I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do, I kept coming acrosssales job rolls being pub published and I looked at the money in the potentialearning. So I thought you know what this looks good. Why don't? I give thissales thing a go while I'm figuring out what I want to do- and you know almosttwenty years later, I'm still here and started out in a company that this was back in two thousand andfive, two thousand and six, where they sold enterprise communications. Thiswas before the explosion of the Internet really, and I actually had to resign from that jobbefore I was going to get fired. So...

...didn't start off very well, however,because I was instrumental to a million multi million pound deal there. I washead hunted by another company called Data Monitor and I learned a huge amount of about salesday, a very boiler room style business actually, but there was a lot of goodthings that I had that I took away from there and then I was hatant Ed byanother company called C B, which is now owned by Gardner, and that's wheremy skills really took off, because we started looking at things like bestpractices. I learned a ton of things there that would have taken people,probably in five years six years I was there. I would have taken at least tentwelve years for someone to learn what I did and then from there I startedadvising companies and sales people about sales, trater sales, performance,etc, and that's where I found a proverbial door, but I've also. I alsosit on the other side of the table where I'm part of a prior equityfunding in the UK as well. So that's really kind of in a nutshell, my myjourney so far into sales. Well, I I it's a great story and I sure we know alot of the same people that used to work at at c Eb, because it's aprestigious group of alumni, Brian Caplin, cris Tanat, Phil, Sophia,listen, Merwin, all might have been your colleagues in me or or some ofthem are based in the US, so Brian copland sounds familiar, there's alsoChristol Martel, who was my managers like one of the Best Maleger I've everhad? Actually, it was a great company is a great company, probably a copyyeah, so I heard you've interviewed almost four hundred B to be buyers overfifteen years, and you know you mentioned that you graduated with adegree in neuroscience. What have you uncovered about how and why buyerschoose which salaries they want to work with and what's been surprising to youabout what you've learned yeah, I have to admit what was reallysurprising was how important so, firstly, every one of those fourhundred buyers and by the way, this this this isn't hugely complex researchthat C B would have conducted. You know the some of this was very informaldiscussions and I will take a notes and record them, but every single one ofthose four hundred buyers across ten different industries and differentbuying levels, every single one of them used either both of these words or oneof them, and that was trust and honesty. Every single one, and that surprised me,if I'm being really honest, I thought they would have it kind of all camedown to that, and I thought they would have talked more about things likeunderstanding my business understanding, my industry and they did, but it wasn'twasn't as commonly noted as those two words. So when I dug further, this wasless about sales skills and in fact it wasn't really about product knowledge.Either I mean there's a certain level of product Lolo you have to have, butthat wasn't what made the difference? It was more about whether they couldtrust the seller. To do a few things. Number one deliver on promises numbertwo: can they trust that the gains or the benefits the sales person isclaiming they can give, are not...

...exaggerated? Can they trust that thesalesperson will help them achieve their objectives and outcomes not justtheir own? Can they trust that the sales person isnot just at it for themselves that they also have the buyers interests at heartas well? Can they trust that the seller will continuously provide them with new,with a like a kind of new and unique perspective about their world? Why to?Are they a sort of education? For me? Am I going to leave each conversationsmarter with that seller and the other one that was quite surprising was? Canthey trust that this salesperson is not just going to help their business growbut help them grow as a person right, so do they take into account?For example, are they going to help me get promoted right? Are they the onesthat going to help me in my performance reviews show that I should be watherthat promotion they'll also get that bonus, because the some some of thesesites decisions are quite big decisions and they have to be aligned to theiroutcomes as well, so that was kind of the biggest takeaway and everythingkind of stems from that trust and honesty. Honesty, category right. Sowhenever we talk about anything that set by as liked about sales people, itultimately led to that, and without that trust there was really no longterm relationship and certainly not a relationship where the accounts in thespend of that account will continuously grow with the account manager. So thatleads to the natural question of how how does one establish trust? There's aguy named tod Caponi in Chicago who wrote a book called the transparencysale may be mirroring some of these ideas, because there's a fear that, if thatsome sellers have maybe there's a fear, I imagine there's a fear that ifthey're too honest about the shortcomings of the product, they'llkill the deal and they're obviously directly incentivized to win the deal.So how do you establish trust? And how do you keep in mind the realities ofwhat you know about the product versus perhaps what the customer might notknow? So, firstly, that's a really good question right because, firstly, we live in a radicallytransparent world right, so you say: Transparency Sale. We live in aradically transparent world. I have seen very few instances where a buyerhas not done their homework enough, that they would understand the pros andcons of different solutions out there less and less. In this huge researchout there, CB gardener, forester, etc. She's reach a research out there thatshows sellers are being relied less and less over the years to inform the buyerand sails in some ways, and this is a dangerous thing, but it's a very truething: We can't hide away from its becoming commoditized and in thatrespect psychologically. Actually it's the veryopposite. If you try to hide some of the things that you don't do so well,there's countless research that shows that if you highlight one or two thingsthat you don't do very well, but include that, with the things that youdo do very well, you actually increase... in the recipient to believe it ornot. By hiding it you're, actually doing a self more harm than good. Ibelieve then, and if he sell, if the buyer knows you're risking that right,you can't really take that risk and- and you probably noticed it yourselflike, if someone- I don't know if you can think of an example. But I haveseveral examples where people have talked to me. You know I've asked themabout something that they do and they say joe to be honest, that I'm notreally very good at that or or we don't do that very well, but that's okay,because what we really try to focus on his xy and at and those are the thingsthat we really shy and doing that also helps you understand if you arespeaking to the right buyer as well. So this is the point about precision, but to talk about trustworthiness,Stephen Covey, the the author of Seven Habits of highly effective people oncewrote that trust is where competence and character converge now: competence or skills. That's avery big topic, and it's very specific to the industry that you're in theproducts, you're selling, etc and there's some broad categories. But whatis very clear is that if you do not have the right characteristics, then all the competents in the worldwon't matter when it comes to trust Warren Buffet, you know Bill Gates, somany very well known high performance individuals have said this many on manyoccasions. In fact, Warren Buffet has said that without characteristics withthat integrity, the latter will kill you right. So we'll talk about thecharacteristics, because those are really really important and theyactually feed the competence in a lot of ways. So there are eightcharacteristics that I found that are critical to having a trustworthycharacter. The first one is authenticity right. Are you authentic?Are you speaking of truth? Are you conducting yourself in the way thataligns with your values? Consistency right, so we see this in account.Managers when they first have a client come in. You know the first year isjust amazing: They they're professional. They are prepared that they come with,like immense amount of value that they provide to that by it. But as the yearsgo by- and you know this- this buyer becomes a bit more loyal. We start tosee some complacency settle in wits. A consistency is really importantintegrity. You know, don't need to Labor that any more it's you know areyou truthful Ye, you're, honest responsibility or accountability. So doI feel a sense of responsibility or accountability towards my buyer?Reliability as well? You know, do I show up on promises that I make do Imake sure that our colleagues and delivery and product et ce deliver onthe promises that we make? Can they rely on me that if you know shit hitthe fan- and it often does, can they rely on me with my sense ofaccountability as well, that I will do what's required in order to actuallysolve the situation? Too often, we hear of sales people that are very vocal andare very present when things are going are well, but the moment something goeswrong, all of a sudden they're not present, and they hide behind productor someone else that can deal with the...

...situation. The other one is guilt,proneness or guilt worthiness. This was research conducted by inversion andthose people that feel guilt for an action right, they're, more guilt proneto something that might happen. So, if they're about to do something and theyfeel guilty about the action or guilty about what the consequences might be,they inspire a huge amount of trust because they change the course of theirdecision, Whit in the actions that they take. So that was of quite a surprisingone. Generosity is another. One now generous is important because in myresearch and I tested out several times, generosity on its own without the othercharacteristics, actually degrades trust, because the recipient will feellike you're trying to buy their loyalty. So, therefore, generosity has to be intandem with some of the other characteristics and then the final oneis agreeableness. This isn't being a yes man or yes, woman or just agreeingwith someone this is about. Am I tactful in how I share my opinion? Am Iusing tactful ways to influence the buyer? Right influence comes from theword, a Latin. What in for the war, which means to flow? So you know youlike and influences you know getting into, is like it's like getting into ariver. The river represents that person's opinion. If you step over theline and to really get into the river to try to understand that person andwhen and how they formed those opinions that they're sharing, then you can more tactfully and moreeasily divert the course of that river and by sharing your own opinions in atactful way, rather than slamming a dam into the river and hoping to stop thatopinion. That makes sense, so agreeableness is also another form of enhancing trust in the buyer. So sothose are the eight characteristics of trust. Having Trust, why the characterand they feed into some of those skills, that's the other dimension of trustweadiness. What are some practices if you go in? You know a company hires youand they hire you for t the full they buy everything proverbial door isoffering. So they do want you to help structure their sales team, but theyalso want strategies, drills or practices that they can instill ontheir team to improve and build upon trustworthiness. How do you advisepeople to get better at this? The faldes now the salespeople are thesales, but when you're coaching a salesperson- and they say I want to bemore trustworthy- I heard about the eight things that you know. I want tobe more agreeable, but what specifically can I do Moad so that Ican? I can you know, begin working on this, and in two months will be betterthan I am today. So the first thing in this is going to sound. Weird is chooseyour employers carefully that on that word well well, given the state of themarket, sometimes it can be very difficult to do so. You know if you'rea graduate with very little experience. Sometimes you don't have the freedom inthe luxury to be able to do so, but were possible, and if you do have a bitmore control over that situation, choose your employers carefully. Thereason why is you need to ensure that... had that that employer has theright sales infrastructure to encourage the right behaviors? There are so manycompanies out there that are very unethical in their cells approach,right whatever the buyer says, they need tell them yes and we'll figure itout right now, there's a good side to that, but there's also a very bad sideto that, because if you really can't do it and you're kind of almost lying tothem and encouraged to do so, that's not really going to inspire trust inthe viand. The I will find out. That's not a basis for a long termrelationship. So choose your employers carefully. The second thing, then, isdoing audit of how you conduct yourself, both in your personal life and yourprofessional life, because trustworthy characteristics, there's no differencebetween the two. Actually, a trustworthy person is someone who isboth trustworthy in their professional life and in their personal life. So Doan order it to cross those eight things right, you know: Do you conductyourself in an authentic way? Are you reliable? Do you feel accountability sodo that Auditae enrage yourself, maybe in a scale of one to five and askyourself how good am I at those things and then what I would then do is, Iwould say, think about the buyers that you deal with right. Think about theindustry, the characteristics of those buyers, the responsibility that theyhave think about them and then ask yourself: okay, which two or three ofthose eight are really going to shift and move the needle towards beinghighly trustworthy with them and when you've identified those things. That'swhere you can start to do your research and actually ask your manager even askyour colleagues: Do Your Own Research and I've got I've got some research outthere, where you can start to look at well? How do I become, for example,more reliable? How do I feel this sense of accountability towards my buyer? SoI would start with making sure you have the right environment around you sothat you can do that. Do An audit right and be as truthful asyou can be right and take your time in doing that or dat. Don't just take oneor two examples: try try to think of of quite a few of them rate. How good youare each one and then look at based upon the buyer community that you'reselling, to which are the most important ones right, which ones aregoing to really move the needle and that's when you can start to find books.You know. Look at research out. There speak to your colleagues, speak to yourmanager, even speak to your buyers and ask them right. Think of some of thebest sales people. You've ever done business with what made them best, and why is it that you trusted them?What did they do that made? You trust them so much, and they will often tellyou what it is that they did and how they did it. So they were a greatsource of information as well Titanis your question: It absolutely does itabsolutely does and you know specifically doing the audit and thenmaking sure that you're, you know your personal behavior and your professionalbehavior are are correlated and our an...

...alignment is also. You know a reallyhelpful. A helpful suggestion. Are there one or two common mistakes thatpeople make? Obviously you know saying the product can do something that itdoesn't do. Yes, we know that that's a mistake, but other are there other? Youknow common mistakes that you see sellers make, perhaps unintentionallythat break trust with the buyer yeah. Some are intentional, somewhatunintentional, so the first one, which is one of the most cardinal sense thatI've even committed- and I find myself committing it still why it's hard tobreak old habits, sometimes self centeredness, and what I mean by that is everythingabout your Imprac is based upon your self interest, wit, the angle that youuse our hypothesis, the messages that you use in the emails or even in thephone cause. You know it's just all about you right and it's all about yourperspective and your company's perspective, rather than the biasperspective. So self centeredness is just a very common mistake that reallybreaks down trust the other one is, when you add, either specification ofthe product or you structure the agreement in a certain way. That ismore more beneficial to you as the seller than the buyer, mostly becausethat's where you get the highest commission, so that's that's anotherone again, because buyers are very well informed these days, so they canprobably see and they'll question why you have certain things in a contractor certain certain specks in the product, for example the other one'stransparently self serving questions. I you know people talk about diagnosisand questioning, and I don't understand why, but we're still training salespeople to ask very obviously structured questions that steer the buyer towardsa sale and rather than asking- and it's all about intention rights. An this isasking questions because you're genuinely curious about the buyer andtheir situation. You generally want to really get to the heart and the rootcause and understand deeply like what's going on there, so one of the mostcommon sins. There is just really obviously transparent questions thatself serving the other one is a knack of knowledge, not sales knowledge orproduct knowledge, but lack of knowledge about the industry that you,the bias industry lack of business acumen right, that's a big one!Actually that we're still saying lack of understanding of the buyers, roleand responsibilities you know and how, how others in their role of doingthings like what a good practice and best practice. You know just that lackof knowledge about the buyer's world, and that was mentioned several times bythose four hundred buyers that I spoke with wit it just and they termed it asthey just they don't know about them. They have no clue about them and whatthey do. If you ask, and I've only seen of all the people that I've asked interms of the sales people and I've done this with so many now, maybe one or two per cent. Maybe whatI've asked this question tell me about the KPIS or the MBO or or theperformance or O v NB of your buyers.

So, if you're sending to a C to or CIOCMON R me their Kpis as a job role and very about one percent by an even thatbeing generous, were able to do so in a confident way and with clarity. So ifyou don't even know how your buyer is going to be measured in terms ofsuccess, how could you possibly in a coherent way in a good way, align yourbenefits to their values and what's important to them right so so that'slack of knowledge about their world is a very big one and then the final oneis, you know, lack of a well thought out hypothesis or opening to yourdiscussion right so gone o the days where we predominantly have people thatask you know what keeps you up at like still there, but it's not as much, butit's been replaced by another one, which is you know whatare your priorities or what are your challenges again? I M my God that Imean that's just total horse shit. I I mean you live in a world that isradically transparent, right, there's, so there's a plater of information atyour fingertips and it's for free. There is no excuse for you to not turnup to a meeting a sales meeting with at least a well thought out. Hypothesisdoesn't have to be accurate, but it at least has to be thought outand you've got to be able to justify. How did you come to that hypothesis andthat's what a buyer wants to hear they want to? They want to hear thatsomeone's actually treated their time with courtesy and respect rather thanwasting it, and have they come with a reason for why they want to talk to meand then we can talk about whether it's right or wrong, but those are kind ofthe five I would say, really big and common mistakes that Isee that really breaks trust actually so yeah. Those are great examples and,to your point, underscore the importance of preparation which shows arespect for the other person's time and expertise, yeah mowed. If folks arelistening and they and they want to get in touch with you- maybe they want tohire you. Maybe they want to have a longer conversation. What's the bestway to get in touch yeah? And you look look at you, don't need to hire meright, I'm I'M! You know if time allows I'm more than happy to share thingswith people freely and there's a ton of toller resources to do so. So the firstone is, you can check me out a proverbial doco website t you know, Ineed to change the website that stuff in there is not is not up to date,having had the time and in a good way, because I've been so swamped with witha lot of clients at the moment. So that's one linkedin so forward Maridaon there's a ton of stuff out there that I put on and you can always reachreach me there. Oh, I also have a youtube channel, so proverbial door isthe channel and we're putting out a ton of content around trust. I also do somevideos with an XP OF JP Morgan, helping people understand how to read financialstatements, and we do this of companies... well as specific companies, and youknow people can actually ask us if they want us to analyze a company for themright, so we can do that for them. In fact, most of our videos are fromrequests and then the final one is, you can actually contact me directly byemail, so m am in and we can put the link in the show. Not I if that's OkayMin a proverbial DOCO and if you put the subject, subject title of SalesHacker then I'll know where you're coming from, and you know happy tohappy to chat with you there. Our listeners have many options tocontent you and so sue more content. We got to get more attention fitsintention. Attention is a big thing right and you know the currency of theday, the absolute personal brand, it's a big one, whit if you're notcommanding attention and if you're, not where buyers are and that's why you gotto know your bias, then you're missing out on a big thing. Someone else isgoing to have their attention and early mid thanks. So much for being our gueston the show. Today, we'll talk to you on Friday for Friday fundamentals, it'sbeen lap to prose. Thank you very much. So everybody Sam's corner it's Sam Hi, it's my corner, I'm in mycorner. You know I follow an account on Instagram Jersey, Shitzu. I hope youfollow that because it's just absolute pure joy and it's just a bunch ofShitsu making havoc and my favorite Shitsu besides the ones that I am theowner of and is a little guy named Tater and Tater has taters corner right.He takes all of his toys and hides them there. Sometimes a toise, regular dogtoys, and sometimes the days are like a plastic temper work container that hejust absolutely has to have in his corner, which is in the bathroom anyway,he's a very funny guy and he also sleeps in like a coiled vacuum to so.If you follow, if you're an INSTAGRAM GO TO JERSEY, Shit Sus, look at theirstories. It's absolutely wonderful has nothing to do with moid. I mean in ourconversation, but I just it reminded me because I said Sam's corner and thenI'm thinking about tator and taters corner, and you know my love for Tater,because I'm in love with him I've never met him. I will hope one day to meethim. He is something special in this world he's all that's good in the worldanyway, I hope you're Chocolay, I'm chocolatewas a great conversation with Maida mean, and we talked abouttrustworthiness, and we talked about how sales is not about rammingsomething down somebody's throat that they don't want. Our need. It's about,building, establishing trust so that you can help people solve theirproblems, and trust is just so important and moids goal is to elevatethe profession of sales by reintroducing what modern sales reallyis. There's so much transparency in the world that it's not even possible to doit the old way. It really has to be the new way of transparency, honesty,integrity and, having a good, honest conversation being inquisitivethoughtful, not being self serving, not talking about yourself, the whole timeand really sitting still and listening, so that you can ask true probingquestions about. What's going on with your viar maid also said that coldcalls are bullshit, that's the...

...controversial he said horseshedactually, but you know it's a form of Shit animal feces. Some people trulybelieve in co calls some people believe in cold calls not because they'renecessarily effective, but because they had still perhaps the right level ofwork, ethic or discipline in the sales team. I don't know I'm of I'm of a fewdifferent opinions. I think cold calls need to be part of an overall Omnichannel outrage campaign to get somebody's attention, because gettingpeople's attention is very hard in the modern Arra. So the other thing thatwhat we talked about was just making sure that your personal life and yourwork life are integrated and if you want trustworthiness and character inyour person and your professional, if you need to have the same thing in yourpersonal life and for when I asked him, what are some strategies to build thathe's at first pick the right company that has the right character and theright level of authenticity, honesty, transparency, transferest. So that'sthat's it. That is important. Do Your due diligence? It's a good labor marketout there. You can find a new job, make sure that you're talking to companiesthat put character and honesty and integrity at the heart of what they doand at the heart of their values, because that will drive the behaviorthat you are asked to perform as an employee of that company. So greatconversation and hope you enjoyed my little tangent on Tater, be He reallyis a wonderful guy. If you want to reach out to me Ken Salmon JointPavilion, if you haven't yet checked out the sale hacker community, you'remissing out any sales professional conjoins, a member to get get immediateanswers to any question, share experiences jump in and started adiscussion with more than seventeen thousand sales professionals at sales.ACTON. Of course, thanks to our sponsors out reached had to outreach toile for slash on outrage, to see what they've got going on and teach you howthey use their platform. Unlock your professional potential. Take a classfind a mentor and up lovely our career with a pavilion membership, go to joinPavilion Com to learn more and finally, air call are called a cloud place,voice platform, a new standard for sales productivity. That's best friendswith your Crna makes it super easy to connect with your customers, go to aircall, I don't think it'so. Actually i think it's that i do see what it is.It's there called that i o i said com at the intro. It's that i er called atio, wonderful company. We love the company they're doing great work. Ithink that's all! I have i'll talk to you next time. I.

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