The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 2 months ago

180: Talent Retention w/ Whole-Person Benefits Package


In this episode of the Sales Hacker Podcast, we have Hakim Myers, Business Recruiter at Nextdoor , where he recruits for people, finance, and legal functions for startups. Join us for a revealing conversation on sales and talent from the perspective of a recruiter in an executive search firm.

What You’ll Learn 

- How to convince people to work for your company

- Why attrition and retention matter so much right now

- The talent search in the startup environment

- Powerful benefits that employers need to offer

Show Agenda and Timestamps

- About Hakim Myers & Nextdoor [2:00]

- Key lessons from a business recruiter [8:30]

- The hardest job market in a decade [10:20]

- The startup environment & powerful employee benefits [12:25]

- People analytics: What employees want [15:45]

- The biggest talent challenge for companies [20:08]

- Sam’s Corner [21:36]

One two one: Three: Three: Everybody'sSam Jacobs, welcome to the Sales Hacker podcast today on the show we've gothike, Myers he's a recruiter for next door. He's going to talk to us aboutwhy sales is so similar to recruiting and steps that you can think about tomake sure that you're positioning yourself the right way, but also stepsfor employers to improve their benefits package and make sure that they are agreat place to work so great conversation before we get there. Wewant to think our sponsors. The first is out reach. Have you heard of outreaches a new way to learn out reach on it? Riches place to learn how our doesout reach learn how the team follows up with every lead and record time aftervirtual events and turns them into revenue. You can also see how our trunsaccount base plays, manages reps and so much more he's in the very own salesengagement platform. Everything backed up by data from out rich processes whenyou're done you'll be able to do as well as they do had to outreach a ooFord, slash on outreach to see for yourself we're also sponsored bypavilion. Pavilion is the key to getting more out of your career. Ourprivate membership connects you with the network of thousands of like mindedpeers and resources where you can taff into leadership opportunities, training,mentorship and participate in over twenty different educational programsthat provide full training and certification through PavilionUniversity unlock your professional potential with the bazillion membershipleaders at every stage can get started to day at Joint Pavilion Com. Finally,air call air calls a cloud based voice platform that integrates seamlesslywith popular productivity and health desk tools from calm monitoring andwhispering integrations with your carm and wheel time. Analytics Air Call canhelp turbo charge your sales reproductive ty set a new standard forsales, productivity and performance by switching to a phone system. That'sbest friends with your cram. You can get twenty percent off your first threemonths at air call at air call sales hacker that is air, call sales hatero.We are also users of air call at Pavilion, great product, Great Company,and also our VP marketing Carly Dell used to work at air cal. We Love AirCall so give it a shot. Now, let's listen to my conversation with the keyMyers everybody at Sam Jacob's, welcomed to the sales hacker podcasttoday on the show we've got hake, Myers a kame is a business recruiter for nextdoor. He recruits for people, Finance and legal functions and he's been instart up land since two thousand and thirteen so just about eight years andhe's going to bring a really interesting perspective on sales fromthe perspective of a recruiter and an executive search firm. So I camewelcome to the show, thanks for having me so having pleasure to be here today.We're excited to have you so we like to start. We call it the baseball card.It's really just a way for us to understand you, your job and thecompany that you work for so give us your full job description, yeah, fulljob description, you know in my day day is just working with different stateholders or business leaders to get an understanding of what's going on withintheir business or within their team. So we can continue to hire. I work notonly with these business leaders, but with leaders on my team to get anunderstand head count and we more so measure half by half. So you know rightnow we're turning in second half of the year. So it's been just interesting aswe've continued to grow and contain the scale to get an idea of the new rolesthat pop up as the business is the business of boves itself and and tellus about next door. Is that just a big, recruiting firm tells a little bitabout the company. You Work Oh yeah, so I appreciate your asking so next door.You know it's what I would consent consider hyperlocal place where you canget an understanding of who your neighbor is. So I wouldn't say we havea ton of competition very specifically because we're still evolving andgetting an idea of how we're going to you know help people get and understandwho their neighbors are. But you know when looking at you know differentencies that you could potentially compares to. You know: There's Facebook,you know out there and other social networks which people have continued tocompare to. So it's been an interesting year, especially coming out of Covin.You know identifying how we can continue putting resources intoneighborhoods, so people can understand.

I've also heard a ton of stories aboutpeople becoming closer to their communities through it. So I like beinga part of that I like hiring, giving people the opportunity to work withinand at that can change the world. So all those things have been prettyinteresting as a whole. Well, I've a bunch of questions, but I know I'm realizing. I know exactlywho next door is an I'm a user. I'm sorry that I that I, that I asked thatdumb question no worse, yeah, there's always always stuff for sale in mybuilding, and you know neighbors complaining about something, andsomebody was too loud and somebody got mugged, so I mean it's New York, soyeah so tell us about your background, How dyou get into this role. You know, I know that you started back in start upworld. I two thousand and thirteen with Mimi was that your first job or walk usthrough your background where you grew up, you know give us your condensedstory: Yeah Yeah! I can definitely have it so I actually grew up in PrincetonNew Jersey, which you know. I definitely credit a ton of myunderstanding, just people and day to day and want to have more conversationsto I'm coming. You know out of high school. I just wanted to continuegetting good education and I knew that eventually I wanted to get into a bigcity, but as far as school I needed something very small where I could honein a d o Gettin an Unerstan was next. I play football and Lacrosse as well. Iwent to Arabian College, which is a small school in Beth on Pennsylvaniaand after graduating. Did you play? I did you play football there? Yeahfootball am a cross there, oh cool. What position do you play in football?In Football? I played a little bit of outside linebacker and then acrossdefensive Midi, so yeah those were, I would say, more early on aspects of mycollege career. I didn't finish all four years. I actually stopped bothafter my sophomore year, just due to injuries and truly just want to containmy education, and I knew that I wasn't becoming a linebacker in the NFL in time soon so hard to plan for option be understood,understood well, Kudos to you outside line back as a difficult position, buta fun line yeah. It was definitely fun and I think you know, being part ofdifferent athletic teams. Growing up definitely have been a part of. Youknow how I'm able to continue getting an understanding of how people work inthe different environments I'm in today and then yet you know coming out ofschool. I moved to New York City. I got my first job with the company calledthe word doctors that was had ed by a guiding frank once he was a huge dealin politics and being a poster, a I've heard of him. That's how I know thename Yeah Yeah, so that schools it's either here there when people haveheard of out, but you know coming out o school. That was a great job. Irecruited for his focus groups all over the nation. We used contin contact andat the time I had never heard of it, but now it's kind of cool to see howthey've grown and containing a leverage their network. I would so with thatbeing said, I knew I wanted to continue recruiting. I did get into the agency'sside. I work with Arote for about three years within the architecture: InteriorDesign, division here in New York City, not continued, just open my eyes todifferent opportunities, and you know that I didn't have to be in onespecific area, you kind of on my end being in the agenty, the next school.You know when you are successful to take on the sales role and that wasn'tfor me. I truly do move the people aspect. You know of my job just gettingout or say you know what people like what's going to continue to make themhappy and when you are able to get someone into a job that they're trulyhappy with there's no more joy, no at least for me, because we're allspending so much time at work in it's like literally ninety percent of whatwe all do, whether we want to Mitt or not yeahs yeah. So that's how I kind of gotinto the start up world I had a few great jobs, Socko being one of themoffer pop was another great environment, Liland, another great environment, thatI'll speak to all, just giving me the tools where I would say you now give methe opportune recruiter at all these...

...places at dock on yeah for pop always abusiness recruiter, working worse on the business side by verging differentrelationships to manage and build out head camp awesome. I mean I know thatthe Zachal recruiting team was huge in the period of high back in like earlythoughts or whatever the early ten yeah. That was definitely a good now leapingpoint for me and I've created or been able to establish a ton ofrelationships that I continue to have you know from the days of Zadok. So youknow recruiting is sales, tell us what you've learned. You know what are someof the key lessons and insights that you have about about being an excellentrecruiter, convincing people to come work at a company? What are your youknow? What are your secrets? Yeah and I would say there, as you said, there area ton of similarities between recruiting sales and the one that I'llspeak to you know right away, is you don't want to burn any bridges and youwant to make sure you're, managing and understanding the relationships thatyou're kind of taken in on a daily basis and kind of that front end workthat you were doing sells us as far as the discovery phase of planning, butyou can also see that in recruiting to. As far as building out your pipe linekind of six months in advance- and one of the first things I learned at arete-is the connections that you're making you know today will be the jobs thatyou fill six to nine months on the line, and it's been true throughout my entireKaree and I think, there's a lot of similarities there to make in thosesame connections and sales and building your pipe line as well. How does yourmindset shift? You know when you're at an agency, I feel, like I mean, are youalways only just representing the employer versus the employee? What'syour point of view on like prolonged or protracted negotiations between apotential recruit and the company, do you ever find yourself kind of arguingor advocating, on behalf of the employee, back to the company thatyou're working for another great question in so and so when working youknow with different candidates, and you know also working for the company, youhave to kind of be a resource on bothsides, so you know I understand myjob and it is to kind of bring in the best talent, but at the end of the thebest talent has to come in happy and make sure that they can find asustainable career within the company. So I definitely have to make sure I'munderstanding their needs and what's going to make them happy and takingthat next step, so you definitely have to negotiate both sides. Yeah I meanwhat's changed, you know you've been doing this a little while, from myperspective, it's hottest job market. I've ever seen. What's your perspectiveon the job market, what's Your Perspective on compensation? You knowgive us give us the lay of the land, so I really kind of got into kind of thewhole recruiting in two thousand and nine, and I would say, kind of seeingthe shift over the last twelve years or so from being in demand to add a demandand also seeing the economy turn in a few different ways which reallyinteresting right now is that the demand is so high. I think people orleadership is really taken the time to value talent and how that's going tomake their company successful in the long run so areas that you know, peoplespeak to a lot more with the meetings or retention and attrition, and youknow how data you know potential affect those different two subjects. So Iwould say those are the major things that I've seen. Is that there'sdefinitely a lot more care where time spent understanding why people couldpotentially affect your bottom line? Have Employment terms changed you know,or is it just like salaries are up ten percent and there's a specific termthat I'm always interested in? That's because I've been fired so often I'm aI'm, a big proponent, a pre negotiated severance and that's a really a trickything times. People get really pissed off when you bring it up, and sometimespeople understand, but have you seen any evolution in terms of you knowtypical terms that an employee might get when they join? That's a veryinteresting question. I have not seen terms around severance kind of changeand I would say that something that is probably dependent company to company,I think, even being in a position to...

...understand that you have theopportunity to negotiate. A sevens is kind of a position of power to be in. Iwould say most employes don't understand that that's O K Opotentially an option. You know especially going into the van companyor even let's just a taking on a job, knowing that you could potentiallynegotiate that on the front. It so conversation like this, where you knowpotentalities us and educates themself on that going forward, I think, is veryvaluable. Yeah totally. So, what's what's your perspective on just thechanging startup environment? You know you're working for next door, yeah whatyou know, what do you? What do you see out there and I'm? What's anyway, yeahI'll stop there. I have a feel yeah. So I kind of started with the fact that Icame in you know with frank once and the word doctors and I was say at thistime: Their warners were no startups. I never heard of the term. I wouldn'thave even kind of considered taking on a role that was a start up just becausethe resources were at such a minimum and then when I did take the job withMimi on two thousand and thirteen. That was because starters were such a bigthing, especially in New York. Comings like buzzfeed and Zack dock werepopping up all around and you heard of some of the like great advantages,perks that were given at these comings, which- and I think that was kind of thepull at the time. I think what you see now is the companies, especially in thestar round, are so much more well rounded. Their benefit package aredefinitely trend, much more to the advantage of the employee and as awhole, they've taken the time to really understand what toe going to take tokeep these employees or take to or to good talent around, because there areso many good startups, especially in New York and San Francisco. It is sucha competitive environment. I've seen a ton of kind of the same faces. You knowmoving from company to company and really just looking to kind ofleveraged different lines of experience to the tiny propelling that nextcompany and I think, that's kind of something that will contain to see asdifferent startups involved. You get companies that have been around foreleven twelve thirteen fourteen years that are still in that start up row.What are some of your favorite benefits that you're seeing out there before? Ifwe've got a employee employers listening that want to improve theirbenefits package and make yeah or company a great place to work? What doyou think what goes in there? I think the first thing is taking you know thetime to do a survey and understand what your employees internally really want.One of the shifts you know that I've seen it next door more recently is thatthis year we decided to do a match when it comes to four and one K, and thatwas a huge different makers when it, when you're look at the specific datapoints of potentially moving up and play happiness for much to say. Eightyfive to ninety two. Ninety three percent and those things do go a lotlong way when you're looking at Im player attention but Tante yourquestion specifically of different programs. You know that I'm seeing oryou know things are popping up that I feel like are buzzing. I woulddefinitely say the for one can imagine, I would say different impertilityprograms making sure that you give employes a opportunity to kind of takeon those benefits. A way did you say, fertility programs and fertilityprograms yeah, oh interesting, so employers paying for like IVF and stuff.Like that, exactly wow, that's amazing! I mean that's as hundreds of thousandsof dollars. Sometimes yeah- and I think when you know sometimes when you lookat the benefits of potentially playing for education or you know, be you bringit out a benefit for four one K at you and Portia as that's why I say you takethe survey, you see what really matters to your employees and you may besurprised to when you find that's so cool all right, great yeah. What do youabout? What's your mind? What's your cure goals, you know you're a businessrecruiter at next door, you're recruiting for people, Finance andlegal functions. How have you thought about your career? Where do you want toend up? What's your goals, yeah? So that's you know. I go back to one ofyour questions of like you know, what's changing, what's, involving with theirrecruiting, I've been lucky enough to see things shamed and advanced, so muchthat I think my career opportunity...

...outside potentially like being adirector of people, are leading a recruiting team had a comin like nextdoor. You know potentially at another company outside of those opportunities.I think I could still potentially get into something when look at. Likepeople in a analytics, that's something that I've really kind of taken on thelast year of kind of trying to advance myself and learn a little bit morearound so that I know when kind of looking at large companies like agoogle or an Amazon, those are functions that go a long way when kindof building leadership. People ESWA got goes into people analytics. What goesinto a specifically is in like what am I looking to understand? Yeah like awhat's in the what's in the domain. Is it? Is it like yeah, wising People'sbackgrounds? Is it like personality assessments? I'm just curious? No, soit actually goes into like attrition and retention and lets you say you knowover three years. You want to understand kind of why you've had athirty percent rate of people leaving on the engineering side. You know thatall O K sit out of the bay or you know, potentially white. Twenty percent ofyour New York step has decided to get up and leave, but it's really justgetting a better understanding of you know why things flow the way that theydo and then being able to kind of present that to leadership and givethem an understanding of you know how they can forecast or build out everytime. I think you know what we're seeing right now is. Companies have gotan oportunity a scale at very fast rates. You know we see company's goingfrom like five hundred to five sand and really being able to speak toleadership of the best areas. To kind of grow from five hundred to fivethousand is where you would where I would hope to really come in and be aresource from a people, analytic standpoint cool. Do you? Do you all dopersonality profiles, or do you have a point of view on things like that? Inthe interview process to figure out, people are a cultural fit, I'm so luckythat I don't have to rely on as I, I have been very fortunate that peopleare open and honest and take the time to give me an understanding of kind ofwhat it will be to make them happy or kind of from a person an on what theyneed to kind of get along with their manager or what type of teamenvironment they need to be successful, and so I haven't had to rely on thoseand, I think, more, your sins bility to like the miters break, cess and thingsthat sort where those have been effective and I've done these more inmy team. Breakout settings is just continuously getting a betterunderstanding of you know, kind of how I'm assessing talent or what bias I mayhave come across you over the last year, so in speaking, to different Panatospeaking in different industries and then making sure that I continued tohone and on those and continue just O, be open and continue. Assassin and anopen minded way. Are you? Are you seeing any evolution of sort ofrequirements for roles specifically, for example, you know used to be likecollege degree required, but Y, a n there's, so many places where you canget education, professional education, that some people are putting lessemphasis on whether someone's even gone to college or graduated from college,because they're just more focused on the upside potential of a person thatmaybe was in a situation where they weren't able to go to college, and sothat's the reason why they didn't yeah. So I've definitely seen as a whole acompany's high manager. Our highing stake holders be more open to actualexperience being what gets the person through the door rather than themneeding to have a specific degree or a specific pedigree. You know like comingfrom ex school. I think when looking at kind of what we do on our recruitingteam and how we look to just make sure we're bringing a diverse group ofcandidates on our end, we you kin to have to make sure that we contain achallenge: A high managers on things of that sort. You know if we're looking atcollege education or potentially ven tell them to you, know, look at otherbackgrounds or otherr industries, as we...

...contain a grug scale at our company.What do you think the biggest challenge companies are going to face over thenext year as they try to grow and attract great talent? It will bekeeping time because there are so many opportunies available right now. Ithink the recruiting market for talent that can potentially change or continueputting you into a situation to groser company. No one is going to kind ofstop the dollar from getting that person yeah. I think there are a lot ofhungry companies are a lot of hungry CEOS out there who want to bring himthe best time home so they're not going to be limited by Yo resources to getthat down. It's great great thoughts, great advice.How came it's been awesome having you on the Sales Hacker podcast today we'regoing to bring you back on Friday for Friday fundamentals, but but reallyappreciate the time that you took. If folks want to reach out to you, what'sthe best way to get in touch with you yeah, I would say definitely feel freeto shoot me a message. You know be a link in and if you're not able to giveme from there, you can also shoot me an email, it's just a Myers, twenty fourglom and yeah. I would love to any way help out with any career advice or justany specific questions or how to get things moving if there already Solpoints at kind of interviewing or even kind of getting that first initialprocess started with a company definitely happy to lend a hand awesome.I came thanks so much and we'll talk to Jo on Friday for Friday fundamentalssounds good, so I appreciate the time everybody Sam's Corner GreatConversation with the keen Myers. I gae didn't tell you this, but yeah hisbuilding lost power during Hurricane Henry, and he was doing that podcastfrom his car. So He is a trooper and we really appreciate him him taking thetime to be our guest on the show. The thing I would just point out is fromthis conversation: employees prospects recruits candidates, human beings,whatever you want to call all of us that work for other people, we've neverhad more power than we have right now, and companies are scrambling to findthe best talent so make sure that you take advantage of this opportunity ifyou're, currently, an employee advocate for a better benefits package. MatchingFour O One k Hakim even talked about companies providing infertility,support, meaning people that are struggling to get pregnant, helping,provide access to and vituall fertilization or other types of toolsreally powerful benefits that can make your company a great place to work ifyou're a candidate. Here's my suggestion use your power to negotiatefor pre negotiated severance now, if you're a salesperson or an SDR, that'snot going to happen, but if you're interviewing for any kind of executiveposition, just remember just remember, everything is negotiable. You can askfor anything, you want doesn't mean they give to. You doesn't mean theymight not get, they might get annoyed, but you can ask for it and one of thethings that I think is so important that I've talked about so much assefere, especially for executives. The average tenure of a start up executiveis under a year and a half, and what that means is that people need to makesure that they're protected standard as three months if they fire. Youtypically they're, going to give you that, but they might not. But I wouldask for six months, if you're going to be an executive, a D and really try tomaybe even get as much as twelve six months of your base, a salary paid inone lump sum not through, because sometimes they might write normalpayroll practices which, but you know, if you're getting fired to leave in acompany. Do you really want to be on their payroll and in business with themfor six months? Now? If you want that money all paid up front, so that's whatyou should do and that's my tip for you now and I hope you find it usefulbefore we leave. Let's tell you about some other things: If you're, not amember of the sales hacker community, yet you're missing out any salesprofessional conjoin as a member to ask questions, get immediate answers andshare experiences with life minded sales pros jump in and start adiscussion at sales hatero. Of course, we've got three sponsors. We want tothink out. Reach learn how average does out reach by heading over to outreachaudio for slash on outrage, to check out how they do outrage. Using thatword, a lot outreach also pavilion...

...right. Take a look at sales, school SDRcelebration, school chief marketing officer, school frontline manager,School Customer Success School. We are launching all kinds of differentamazing programs that will provide you full training and certification, notjust for you, but for your entire team. We have an entire corporate program,called Pavilion for teams check it out, go to join Pavilion Com and, finally,air call set a new standard for sales protiv in performance by switching to aphone system. That's best friends with your cram get twenty percent off yourfirst three months at air. CALL AT ER call sales hacker com, that's all Ihave. If you want to get in touch with me, you can Salmon Joint Pavilion Com,put sales acker podcast and in the subject of the email, and if it'sinteresting I will reply and if it's a form letter I likely will not that's.Okay, that's okay! You know this is the world that we live in. You don't haveto pride a everyone in my emails either your email in box is. Somebody else isto do list. Remember that I'll talk to you next time, folks, I.

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