The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 weeks ago

187: Category Creation & What Sets You Apart From Competitors

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode of the Sales Hacker Podcast, we have Veronika Riederle, Co-Founder & CEO at Demodesk, a customer meeting platform company she launched in 2018 that’s bringing in seven figures with a global hybrid remote team. Join us for a stunning conversation about why now is the perfect time to found a company and create a new category.

What You’ll Learn

  1. What’s surprising about starting a company today
  2. The virtual meeting space has barely begun to evolve
  3. Articulating your product in a way that creates a category
  4. How to differentiate in a crowded environment

Show Agenda and Timestamps

  1. About Veronika Riederle & Demodesk [2:20]
  2. What’s surprising about founding a company today [8:25]
  3. Why we should disrupt human communication [13:08]
  4. Differentiating your company in a competitive environment [15:30]
  5. Making gender in leadership a less controversial topic [22:45]
  6. Paying it forward [24:50]
  7. Sam’s Corner [27:30]

One two one: Three: Three: O Everybody at Sam Jacobs, welcome to theSales Hacker podcast today in the show we've got Veronica Redalli. She is theCEO and Co founder of Demo Desk. It's a really interesting sales meetingplatform company, that's the category that they're working in and it's almostlike a vertical ization of zoom, it's taking zoom but making it custom builtand dedicated for the sales person and then running at the entire time over abrowser so that nobody needs to download everything. So it's notanything. It sounds like they're doing really really cool stuff and shestarted this company. You know a couple years ago from that she's built it fromthe ground up now, they're over a million and rr over fifty people allover the world. It's just cool, it's inspiring, and so it's a greatconversation before we get there. Let's think our sponsors we've got three ofcourse first is out reach a long time sponsor the show were excited toannounce that their annual series only summit serieses back this year seem therise of revenue. Innovators join the new cohort of leaders who put buyers atthe center of their sale. Strategies to drive efficient, predictable growthacross the entire revenue cycle, get more details and saviour spot at someat that out reach that Io. Secondly, we want to think- and our sponsor ispavilion. My phone is bringing somebody's at the door, we're going toprobably just leave this in delivering something. It's probably something fordogs. We have three dogs to which are elderly; they even have their own dognanny Sydney Letterman. She does a great job, and the point is that somebody's, probablyat the door delivering something for the dogs, because nobody deliversanything for humans at our house anyway. I DIGRESS OUR SECOND SPONSORS PAVILION.Pavilion is the key to getting more out of your career or private membershipgives you access to thousands of like minded peers, dozens of courses inschools from Pavilion University and over a thousand workbooks templatescripts and play books to accelerate your development, unlock the career ofyour dreams and joined thousands of the very very best all of the best havepavilion on their linkedin. Do you unlock the career of your dreams, applytoday at Joint Pavilion? Finally, Konga...

...as doing business becomes increasinglycomplex, I is harder to do it well. Business is often sacrifice agility andlose sight of the customer experience, Congo's expertise and comprehensivesolution soot for commercial operations, transforming the documents andprocesses surrounding customer engagement, CP and Clem help businessesmet customer needs, while increasing agility to adapt change. Kongo Ford,slash, ZOLZAC CANGO for as sales hacker everybody. It's Sam Jacobs, welcome tothe Sales Hacker podcast today on the show were excited to have VeronicaRedalli. She is the CO founder and CEO of Demo Desk. The number one salesmeeting platform demo dusk empowers every rap to become a top performer bycoaching sellers in real time. Automating non selling tasks, engagingcustomers in the meeting and analyzing insights at scale before founding demodesk in two thousand and Eighteen Veronica was a manager at baningcompany consulted fortune, five hundred companies on their sills and investmentstrategies and managed multiple international teams. Feronia welcome tothe show. Thank you so much so it excited to be here. We're excited tohave you so the first thing we like to do is start with your baseball card,but really what it is is an opportunity to learn more about your company DemoDusk. So I read a little bit of the description, but tell us what is demodusk, but you you just describe, but demades is pretty well so Jamais thenumber one sat we did play form we do coach Salacin real time. So we are ameeting platform that integrates life coaching and on top of that, weautomate non selling tasks like scheduling, preparation, documentation and also follow up afterthe meeting, and we also analyze inset et gay, because we have much more datathan just from the audio conversation, because we also able to analyze what'sbeing shaded, which plenty time and also what play books have to use duringthe car. When you say, live coaching in real time. Is that through bots? Isthat you know? Is that sort of AI, or is that actual human being that sort ofchimes in or wisp in whisper modes sort of gives the rep som some tips or someinsights? It's not these, and just...

...imagine you know the perfect way how tosell it. A pavilion, a pavilion membership right and you know what tosay to the customer. You know which content to share. You know how toanswer certain questions, so you're able to sell the membership properly.So you now take a play book. You Right said into your playwork and then, whenyour team is in the meeting, they automatical have your playbook loadedinto the meeting screen just visible to them without the customer seeing it sothey do have to perfect Pabo them that guide them along the meeting that theycan use to make sure they use the time properly. Plus you also have a searchfeed where you can search for certain key words if there says objections orquestions to answer- and we are knowledge all that prompts a lot ofdifferent things. Why you're having a conversation with a customer to not tostrike you, we are to just guide you along the conversation. How old is thecompany I mean I mentioned. I guess I mentioned in the Bio that you found itin two thousand and eighteen, so we know that it's about four years old atthis point. But how big is it? I guess you know how many people, where are youroughly in your growth through rectory, so we do have a seven digit minar themoment we are a bit more than fifty people. We are a hypogeum team, and sowe have a lot of folks located in Europe and Germany, but also a fewothers spread across the world. So we are O, have em place in the s easternEurope and other countries. I have, for example, in Africa as well, so we dohave ee international set up and tell us a little bit about sort of theorigin story of how you you were working at Van. How did this idea cometo fruition and what were the steps you took in order to get you know to founddemo desk and then finally wasn't more challenging or less challenging,because it sounds like your: Are you based in Berlin or your you're, basedin Germany, so was that? Did that make was that an easier start of environmentor a more difficult one from your perspective, sure yea? Let me firstanswer the first question and how I started Demolis so...

...before starting the company, I'veactually been working in management consulting at ban, so it's a top to USbased vanishing consulting firm. I work there awesome private equity for fiveyears, and I mean I've always been someone who likes to build things, andI have also been working in a few startups during my studies. So to me itwas always Kea that I wanted to build a company and be entrepreneur, but when Ileft university at the age of thousand and two twenty three filter was justliking, a lot of skills that were necessary to be the company. So Ithought it was a good idea to gain some knowledge and some schools adjoiningthen, and a few years in I started building a few things on the side, likeyou, nutrition, construction, software or video platform from others. But noneof these ideas really excited me enough to quit my job with pain and do thatfor a time. But when I met, I, like he, told me about his idea of Virtuscreenshot and also told me how inefficient and outdated todayavailable today's Avala software for remote product Gamas was so what heactually did. He had developed an m BP for virtual squincher in software thatlets the present. Her Use a Word Shit Cloud, best screen or demonio behave,rather than forcing the presenter to record your local that sub screen witha super old coon, and I was Foye idea of using that virtual display foroptimizing, the customer conversation and that's when we started workingtogether and that's also when we started bidding them a desk. And the second question was remind me again: Well, it was the second one the followon was you know, so you left ban, I guess Alex, is your Co founder? Wereyou in Berlin at the time? Were you in R? Where were you? I am at the momentin Munich in Germany and it's one of the biggest cities in Germany. However,we've also spent a lot of time in San Francisco in Montavert. We were part ofY C, a D in the first half two thousand...

...and nineteen and spent most of the timein mountain view and boar the rest of the time before the pandemic started.We were traveling forth and back between Germany and the west coast, butI mean Winston enemic started. We were not really in the US A lot, but I hopethat this will change soon again and what was surprising to you or what wasmore difficult than you expected, obviously being in Y C means that youknow you had some some great access to resources, but what's been moredifficult for you or more surprising to you about how the work that's requiredto start a company at such an early stage. Well before I sided the company,I spoke to a few founders and how their genus, how it was for them, and theyalways told me that it's like a never ending rollercoaster and I thought backthen that they already had very big companies and so back. Then, when Ispoke with them, the companies were already like several hundreds of peopleand I couldn't quite understand and how they could actually say that this neverchanges because they have accomplished so much right and I think the mostchallenging the thing or the most difficult thing for me to understand isthat they are always challenges and especially as a founder, when you haveovercome one challenge, then you immediately tackle the next one. Soit's basically like a never ending wel and also accepting that this is normaland it like it's normally that they're always challenges that he to be solved.I think Dan was definitely one of the hardest things from you to understandthe beginning, and now I'm able to cope with it better, but but Detis sayssomething gets very unique to to being a fonder and and just starting acompany. How have you thought about your go to market motion? You know howhave you built out your sales and Marketing Organization? You mentionedJovo folks in the US. How are you thinking about kind of client expansion?Are you starting local and then moving to you know? Maybe starting local meansstarting in the bay area, or you know how he thought about go to market. Well,initially, we saw to our network, and so we sold to be friended founders inour ecosystem and also to be findin...

...founder, sem in in wise and once we'veI mean I proceeded to to to the next stage of the company and we build asayst. So initially we were selling Opoony, so we're basically they're justtaking any need that came our way were basically naturally giving themterritories or giving them criteria that they need to figure the prospectsand now, once we fie propositum that of course changed and now we botastructure of an stream and a autem that it's focused on the specificterritories, the specific regions. So we have one stratam not focuses on theholodeck regions with German oster. Switzerland wanted focuses on the UKand one that focuses on the US. I mean it's still at a small scale, but we dovery much focus on mindest regions and we also mostly tired fast growing techcompanies and sauce companies. So for US companies that have raised more thanfive million dollars and some are the most interesting ones, because they'rereally forced to make the sells productive, higher people make thembracket as fast as possible and also control their growth and accelerate orgirl. So that's all wet, but you've mentioned that you, you feel like it'snever been a better time to found a company walk us through that. You knowa lot of people have grown through OVID and a lot of people have struggled. Butwhat's been your approach in perspective and have you turned it intoan advantage, but a I said Colin was a very special situation, even though I mean this entire I meanenvironment. Around cold was was challenging for that of companies andfor us it was almost helping us in some way, because after cover and alsoduring how, when people were forced to sell remotely, they were forced toaccept video calls video conferencing remote setting as the standard way ofselling, and also everyone learned that it's not always necessary to see thecustomer person it like. Sometimes it all very often it's just enough itsufficient. If you do not Lin call it and before that I mean inside says, wasunder rise, but it was not yet the...

...stand a way of selling and after hecovet of course helps us a lot, because we have a safe meeting pithom thathelps the settles side remotely, and so that helped us a lot. I also do thinkthat there is a lot of money out there and the market at the moment, sothere's just an amazing time for founders if they have good ideas and ifthey are able and willing to build software that ogives human skills andalso ultimates, repetitive, Mane or work they would be able to. I would notsay easy to get money, but as it's definitely like way, it's becoming wayeasier than was it a couple of years ago and also especially in Europe, ride.I think, there's also a strong start of ackers tem in merging. I think when westarted build a company for us going into Yis- and I mean being part of thenetwork on the West Coast- was extremely important. I mean we alsobuilding a say software, so I think that's like kind of a different story,but now I think it's also become covered. That's like even more normalto like build a company wherever you are and you're, not necessarily forcedto. I mean move to San Francisco to do that, which is also something that haschanged a lot you've mentioned. That now is the perfect time to disrupthuman communication. Tell it tell us why you think that I always like to usethe example of the self driving car. So if you, if you look at the cars today,we like in theory, almost have the possibility to drive a car withouthuman direction. So you can take tolly autonomously drive a car. Why? Because,in real time all the data around the car is being analyzed processed andthen hand in a way so that the car can drive on its own right. But if youcompare it with the conversation or comperit with a video call in a morenarrow sense, there's like no technology being used at all. So youare speaking over zoom or Google meet or teams to someone else, and there isjust technical interface, so the computer or the server between you andthe customer, and still the only thing...

...that it till help you on a Oye doing,is hearing someone seeing someone and recording a local estop, but it doesn'treally help you being better at the extra conversation it doesn't provideyou with guidance during the call. It doesn't provide you with insights, howthe customers actually reacting. It doesn't provide you with data thatmaybe would help you to build stronger report for the customer, which is allpossible to day right, but none of these is currently being the case andbeing used in the Onendin case in the case of human communication. So that'swhy I think, there's like a tremendous potential to an s data in real China,similar to how you do it for sedding cars process, the data and use it inorder to help anyone have an amazing customer conversation just by givingyou the data and giving you everything that you need to be a time yeah. It'sit's certainly an exciting moment, and, and so much is going to change, I meanso much is already changing the sales meeting. You know the space that you'rein the demo desk is in I mean I in some ways there are manymany companies insome ways what you're doing is subtly different from from those companies,but you know you could say that maybe you compete without reach, you mightcompete with companies like Giminy. The point isn't that you have competition.The point is that you started a company in sort of a category where there's alot of noise and a lot of movement. How do you think about differentiating yourcompany differentiating your platform creating some kind of long termsustainable advantage in such a competitive environment? How do youthink about doing that? From from your perspective as the CO founder and CEO?That's a great question, I think we've already discussed it to some time. I goright, so I think first of all we don't have so much direct comfitscompetition, I'm so there we are ly like the only wheel sales meetingplatform. You also mentioned Germinie, so they are more focused on analyzingconversations after the call, rather than giving the seller platform wherethey are courting rear time. So it's a kind of a real bit of a differentproduct and I'll do just the same. It's also different product because itdoesn't give you a meeting platform...

...that automatically loads the rightplaybooks into it, gives you access to content and connects you with all theother systems that you already have in permeet in a sense of organization. Butit is an amazing tool right to analyze all your conversations in real time andgive you like some basic as and I think it's amazing problem- it's an amazingproduct, but it's just like a very different focus in VALLIPO position,because we are at our core and meeting platform. So we are basically zoom or awove need, but specifically bad for says so, because we control this entiremeeting part. We also have different ways and different possibilities ofusing this meeting in deface in a perfect way, and I in an optimal way toenable the seller. So we can, for example, define what's being shown atwhich one in time we can like freely decide will what, whether we want tobranch, the entire meeting interface. We can freely decide which data we wantto analyze during the meeting and which data makes sense for the seller toprovide him with in real time. So that's a core difference and then alsowe have another unique advantage. It is very and unique to our platform,because we have this virtue, screeching the technology right. So when you useDamask, you can orchestrate and time meeting you detached the meeting fromthe local environment of the cellar and basically put it into this virtualenvironment that we can control and then use a company and the we also cancontrol it's just a very different, like level of of basically guidance andlevel of Daytona litis that we can provide when we compared with otherflatform that are currently out in the market. First of all, very thorough answer, andand yeah I mean, I think, the and a great answer and for me what what itsort of conjures is to your point. Maybe like the vertical ization of zoomsuch that you know, there are personas that need more than this kind ofgeneric tool, which is what zoom is. Do you find that you know you have tofocus on sort of creating a category so that people can understand more quickly?What you do, or does it just make...

...perfect sense to everybody, because Iknow that telling the story as a founder is so important, given that youknow you're out there raising money and talking to investors and talking to thecommunity at large, and you need to figure out a way to drive your messagehome so that there's as clear as much clarity as possible. Have you foundthat sort of you're working on building a definition of the category so thatit's it's more easily understood that some of the companies that I mentionedare not really competitors because they're not really doing the same thing?Absolutely a hundred percent? That has been one of the biggest challenges fora so far right, because we are checking a problem. That's very big and that's naround for a very long time and that a lot of companies like most of yourcompanies have. However, we first need to explain them: Hey, there's like anew type of product, a new type of solution to a very old and non problemthat you have, and so the first of course you to understand what isdemotic about. What does it actually do, and what does it do to solve myspecific problem? So it's not like people would go to Google andsearch for Sechen platform right. So, like you, we peces doesn't go to Googleand search for seceding great ones. He would search for faster on boarding ofsellers. He would make me Google for or she she had said, sits a woman right. Inow she would. She would maybe go for for me coachingto I say and coaching tools, or I mean bally cards or play books, but shewould like never search for say, reading platforms and actuallysomething that we first need to make sure that our market understands andthe jus definitely like a love of work, and then also I mean it was definitelychallenging cross in the beginning, and it gets easier now because we now havemore visibility and also now like a very strong team in place with empusaeproduct properly. But we also have been going forth and backward like the nameof our caterer category for quite some time. So, for example, then, until likethe do six months ago, we thought the NAMOROKA egory would be real time.SASON Eveane, which is like such a complexword like no one reallyunderstands a would actually a stand,...

...and I think just say, is an amment alsoit just the word says in Egbert: It's also such an like unspecific world. Soeven that like was very unfit like the average seller. What does it actuallymean? So we went away from that and say today. Now we have found the name for acategory which is safe, feeding that form spacemen software, but then hasbeen a e challenge for sores and to your point right and then all of thesewords conjure everybody sort of trying to differentiate themselves, and thesewords conjure different things and to your point, enablement doesn't conjure,screen, sharing or meetings for me. It makes me think of, like you know,lesson lay or size mack or like tools that you know you can google like.What's you know? What's our what's our go to market playbook? For you know,health care- and you know, that'll- come up as a little card that POPs upon your screen, but not about running a meeting effectively, which is to thepoint what Demo Desta so well so absolutely less, and we also don't wantto bid another high spot or another says make we want to integrate withthese badford right. So we speaking who has pool at the moment as well to likebuilding integration. So we just want to pull the content independently fromwhere it actually sits. So, whether it's a google drive or in high spot oran says, Nik, we would just want to or go. We also have a Gor intrigueth. Wejust want to put it into the meeting at your life point in time and provide itto the setter and that's what our focus actually is, and also we don't want tobe confused with two is a gone or cars. So we actually do deeply integrate withGong and we also use going ourselves and think it. We think it's like akiller combination, because we can, with the help of gone and Les Al, Cosand understand what has been going on and then when we know what's working,we can then implement it again into all play books in Demorest to make sureit's repeated by everyone on team. It makes perfect sense, and I can. I cantotally appreciate the challenge that you have and also the opportunity, atechnical question. You know zoom you you still have to download. You knowthe the the desktop application or the mobile APP in order to use it. Is thiscompletely browser based or is there?...

You know? Is there something that youneed to download onto your dust top in order to run demo descaves effectivelycompletely brodees, both both for the host and for the participant? So youdon't need any software to install on your computer and you also don't needany extension yeah. That makes it way more. The gross possibilities arebroader. Obviously, as you know, since you're the CEO and a lot of people thatI eat what I think yes, I I think it too. I agree with youbecause I think if somebody sends me something to download, you know thelikehood that I will is much lower. Yes, absolutely we have a few more minutestogether, and one thing that that you have a sort of unique or controversialperspective on is is sort of the your perspective on on female leaders.Female CEOS, email revenue, leaders on really women in leadership. Tell uswhat's your perspective and give us your point of view. There yeah. I thinkit's almost controversial that I even mentioned it right. I I, however, Imean just when I when I thought about that question, and I think this istypically the the one topic where I do have a very controversial perspectiveon it, and so I I mean I am very often confrontedwith my Genera and I personally think it shouldn't matter. So I don't want tobe recognized for anything, because I have a search agenda I, which iswhatever because there, but I want to berecognized or I want my company to be recognized because to product is quadebecause it helps customers achieve better results, and I mean I don't getme wrong. I also think we need to actively fust the woman in leadership,so there definitely needs to be more, but I think the only way out is reallylike taking action and like creating role models and just doing thingsrather than like speaking about it or enforcing a certain share, and I thinkjust very often people like think about something and think about things. Theycould possibly hold them back rather than just doing it. So I d really loveto like to see more women actually...

...doing it, and also I mean I would alsolove to like general, becoming a luster of an issue going forward and less of acontroversial topic or less of a topic in general. On Forbid, I appreciatewhere you're coming from it's also controversial, and it's also like it'shard to figure out if, if focusing on identity and focusing on gender issuesor any other sort of DNA identifying attribute and making it super prominentis the way to make it less prominent in the future or whether it's exacerbatingthe tension in the situation to your point and sort of feels like maybe alittle of both is required, because if you never call it out, then it's notclear. What's going to how intentional the change can be, and if you alwayscall it out, then it feels like maybe you're focusing on that to thedetriment of more of non identity based outcomes. I guess yes, it iscontroversial for for r enough bronchitis been great havingyou on the show. The last thing we like to do is kind of pay. It forward isfigure out who are people you think we should know about who are people thathave influenced you? What books have you read that you think we e shouldread it? It can be any way that you want to compete, your favorite movie,its ideas and human beings that you think are important and influentialthat you think we should know about who comes to mind. Well, I can just thinkof the people that helped me a lot on my journey and that inference me. So we do ave an investor and who is alsothe fund of pet rivers. Name is Martin Hank and he has supported us since thevery early days and also has helped us a lot in his insets are too monioushelpful. We have a regular courting sessions with him and I always thinkthat I actually should pay her money rather than like taking his money,because it's a he sad for so I think he's definitely someone that that Iwork a good name here and a ten and that we like work with a lot ofdifferent advisors and the TAP o son way. So I mean another one, for example,would be near island to sear of Picon he's also Credab helpful and ancoaching us regarding us, and then also I mean terror. Brian has also helped mea lot. She was a e decays, a type drive...

...for quite some time. She has recentlychanged to a to a new role. I don't remember the name of the company nowand me there just a few people who help us along the way, and he would alsoencourage everyone who menis building a company, or I mean everyone who justwants to be Bella the job reach out to to people that they admire people thatthere they do something very well and just ask them whether they want to be amentor or a culture adviser to them, and we do that. A lot amazing yeah- andI agree with that advice completely. That's I've run a business completelydedicated to that. So I agree with you. Yes to a also revenoo for pavilion isalso very helpful. So my my remedy, leadership team is also a member and Ialso think it's incredibly valuable to exchange dance with like many peopleand also get to advice and get coaching from people who are for the longest day.I so that's a that's a great community that we like love and support. Oh well,thank you very much well for onias been fantastic to have you in the show andwe're going to bring you back on Friday for for Friday fundamentals, but folkswant to reach out to you. Maybe they want to work for you. Maybe they wantto buy demo desk. Maybe they need a new sales meeting platform in their lives.What's the best way to get in touch with you, probably by email, so myMalis Baroni ca with a K at Damoso or, of course you can also or will reachout by the intercom chat on our website and people will respond, soundswonderful, Boronia thanks, so much for being on the show we'll talk to you onFriday for Friday fundamentals. Thank you so much. It was great everybody great conversation withFroncia she's, calling to us out of Munich over coid. You know bouncingback and forth between the bay area. Munich they've got plays all over theworld, it's just an inspiring story. It's always it's always inspiring. Youknow it's hard to start a company, it's hard to be a sales later. Frankly, it'ssometimes it's just hard being a human being in this crazy, crazy world thatwe're in, but starting a company still has its own special set of challengesand taking the leap from a cushy job,...

...not that it's easy, but you know a good.A great job like being a consultant at ban into the startup world, takescourage and it's exciting to see she's been working on this for four years.I'm sure we don't even appreciate how hard it's been and now they're over amillion an hour are there over fifteen plays and they're doing something. Thatsounds really interesting, and so I thought it was a really goodconversation, and I also think you know she said some some pretty interestingthings just about how you know where, in the early days of the virtualmeeting space right in the same way that we are in the very early days ofautonomous driving, but in the future I will be a little surprised. Lookingback on where we are from a technical perspective, technological perspective,it you know how rudimentary we were and thinking about all of the things thatare possible in a meeting that aren't currently present. Then I think not that she said this, but you knowyou can even imagine you know virtual reality, augmented reality and howthese worlds and platforms combined to create a new kind of experience, and wealso talked about the difficulty of creating a category when people don'treally know what you do or don't understand what you do. You know when Iheard the word Demo Desk. I thought, Oh, maybe they compete with represt. Youknow this company that does kind of demo simulations, but that's not whatthey do, that it's a sales meeting platform right, so they run meetings inthe same way that you would log into zoom. You run the meeting through demodesk and so then you're like okay, it's a compete without rage. Does it? Youknow at a sales engagement thing. Is that a sales enablement thing and it etturns out that no it's none of those things. It's really a replacement forzoom dedicated to sales, people, which is that's a use case that peopleunderstand, but but you have to articulate in a way that resonatesbecause otherwise you know it can be a muddle and people's reaction to a brandis often instinctual is often you don't have. You know two minutes to explainto somebody that just sees the name of your company on a website you have, youhave to make it instinctual that they understand what you do and who you areand what you are and that's what that is the cost and the challenge ofbuilding a Bram. So really it's a hard work that she's doing and then they'remaking great progress and it's really exciting to see. So congratulations toVeronica and a yeah. If you want to...

...reach me, you can email me Sammo JointPitillo Com. You can go to Linkedin Linkedin Com forts last the word: If inforts last Sam of Jacobs, thanks to our sponsors out reach, check out the newsummit series, which is the rise of revenue, innovators go to summit thatout reach a o if you haven't joined pavilion. Yet what are you waiting for?This is the new way that you are going to navigate and manage your career overthe next ten fifteen twenty years. We're going to give you the skills thatyou need, the training that you need we're going to give you mentoring, sothat it's not just taking a class but its steady, continuous, reinforcedlearning. Take the class talk to the instructor. Make that instructor amentor meet with Kail Lacy. The chief marking off serve Leslie once a monthas a member of our associated executive community, so that you can take thelessons that you get from marketing school or Chief Marketing OfficerSchool and drive them into your performance so that it's not a one time,one off kind of thing. So there's a lot of different possibilities and optionsthat you can get with pavilion, go to join pavillion and then finally Konga.They are really doing some some fast things and what they're doing ishelping businesses become more agile and more adept and can check out moreCongo for that sales hacker. Thank you so much for listening and I'll talk toyou next time. I.

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