The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 2 weeks ago

Your New 3-Part Framework for Cold Calling

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode of the Sales Hacker Podcast, we have Jason Bay, Chief Prospecting Officer at Blissful Prospecting, a company he built to coach B2B reps in outbound sales. Join us for a high-energy, people-focused conversation about doing a complete 180 with your outbound sales framework.

What You’ll Learn

  1. What to use instead of the brute force approach
  2. The 3-part framework of identify, engage, create
  3. You’re trying to get a meeting, not a closing
  4. Jason’s take on omnichannel outreach, especially calling

Show Agenda and Timestamps

  1. About Jason Bay & Blissful Prospecting [1:52]
  2. What teams need to be doing for successful outbound [9:12]
  3. The 3-part outbound framework [10:58]
  4. KISS: Keep It Simple Sequencing [16:39]
  5. Ideal tools for great prospecting [24:18]
  6. Paying it forward [28:43]
  7. Sam’s Corner [33:24]

One, two, one, three, hey everybody, it's Sam Jacobs. Welcome to the salesacker podcast. Todayon the show we've got Jason Bay. Jason is runs a company called blissfulprospecting and any focuses a lot on how to get people's attention and how tohave a meeting in a productive way. It's a really great conversation. Now, before we get there, we've got three sponsors for the show. Thefirst is pavilion. Pavilion is the key to getting more out of your career. Our private membership gives you access to thousands of like minded peers, dozensof courses in schools for Pavilion University and over Onezero work books, templates,scripts and play books to accelerate your development. This December, pavilion is partnering withEcology to try and plant fiftyzero trees and try and remove some carbon fromthe atmosphere. For every member that joins that's referred by another member, willplant two hundred and fifty trees per person. So help us plant fiftyzero trees thisholiday season and sign up using a friends referral link. We're also broughtto you by videyard. FIDYARD is the best way to sell in a virtualworld, whether you need to connect with more leads, qualify more opportunities orclose more deals. FIDYARDS video messages make it easy record your Webcam, yourscreen or both to make prospecting videos, follow ups, product Demos and othercommunications that drive virtual selling. DRIVIDYARD for free by signing up at vidyardcom forfree. And finally, outreach outreaches, the first and only engagement and intelligenceplatform built by revenue innovators for revenue innovator's outreach allows you to commit to accuratesales forecasting, replace manual process with real time guidance and unlock actionable customer intelligencethat guys you and your team to win more often, traditional tools don't workand a hybrid sales world. Find out why outreaches the right solution at clickdot outreach io for thirty MPC. Click dot outreach dot io forward slash thirtyMPC. Now let's listen to my conversation with Jason Bay. Hey everybody,it's Sam Jacobs. Welcome to the salesacker podcast. Today on the show we'reexcited to have Jason Bay. Jason is the chief prospecting officer at blissful prospecting. He's on a mission to help reps and sales teams turn complete strangers intopaying customers. A few of his clients have included reps and sales teams fromcompanies like zoom, CBR Medallia, ex affinity, com vault and many,many more. Sales is the only adult job he's ever had and he's doneeverything from selling house painting services door to door running up on call centers tohelping thousands of reps master cold outreach. Jason, welcome to the show.I'm excited to be here. Sam So, as you know as a longtime listener, we start with your baseball card. So you are the chief prospecting officerat blissful prospecting. Tell us what is blissful prospecting? Sir, hehas funny I know you start with the baseball card. Hopefully no one's confusingme with Jason Bay, the baseball player, because that like I get that allthe time I go to the airport. I'm like, I look nothing likethis guy's very much. I'm not. I'm not familiar enough with all ofthe all of the major really gets all players to make that confusion,but I appreciate that it happens to you and hear better looking than the guythat plays baseball. Maybe I mean you.

He's not a super young he's notBrad Pitt. You know kind of the kind of situation. But I'lltake it to blissful prospecting. The reason why we started blissful prospecting is thatyou guys have put data output at pavilion on sales belt. My reports.Bridge Group is put it out and know the kind of the big problem everyyear is that it gets harder and harder and harder to get the attention ofour prospects and what you see going up, as well as the number of attemptsthat it takes to get a hold of prospects. And when we sawthis problem happening, I started the company with my wife actually five years ago. Prior to that, the previous five years, I had done a lotof work and call centers and I noticed that a lot of the you'll beto be companies I would consult with after that, and the BBC companies aswell, is that they didn't really have a good inside sales team. Youknow in motion, especially the the bet be folks, they weren't really doinga lot of the basic things that seem pretty fundamental now, like personalizing inemail, you know, not not sounding like a robot when you call someone, prioritizing the prospects needs and their challenges and their priorities first, and theway that we started fixing that problem was by doing appointment setting for them.So that's what we were doing five, six years ago, and in thelast two or three years we shifted more into training and coaching, which isreally more my sweet spot, what I've really enjoyed in my sales career asbeing a sales manager and really getting to coach and train and work hands onand like do some of the work alongside of them. So, yeah,we started working with small businesses and now we're working with some of the largestSASS companies out. There are some really large professional services companies as well,and it's really all centered around how do we fix this problem of instead ofattacking this problem by volume, how do we really stick out and break throughthe clutter in the inbox and the Linkedin DM's over the phone? It's aso that's what we're up to. How big is the organization? It isme. I have a couple other coaches that help in our programs and acouple virtual assistants. That's that's it. We keep it pretty lean. Imean, I love it and and well, I've I mean, can we?Is it okay if we dive? I I want to hear more aboutyour background, but I have so many thoughts about this topic that I'm excitedto chat with you. Let's let's start quickly with your background. So howdid you get into this? What's your I rented in your bio that you'veyou know, you've been in sales and kind of making money and hustling fora very long time. But where you're from, how to you know,tell us about some of those early experiences that led you here? Yeah,so I grew up in a city called Brookings in Oregon. It's about fivethousand people. It's in the very lower left hand corner of organ as closeas you can need to California. And when I went to college, thisis in two thousand and seven, I wanted to be a forensic scientist andjust out of luck, someone came into my classroom and talked about and opportunityto run a house painting business to make money for schools. A large company. How much in the specific name, but they essentially hire college students andteach them how to run a hund house painting franchise. So I didn't know, Sam when I did that job and...

...started in the spring that I wouldbe going door to door. That never registered for me. So naturally thefirst thing I did, because I'm a bit of a Nerd, is Ibought Little Red Book of selling because it was the best selling sales book onthe shelf at boarders or wherever it was, and it bought a house painting forDunny's book so I could understand how to talk to people about it.And Long Story Short, I did really well. I sold a hundred thousanddollars worth the paint jobs over a four or five month period. I meanlike Thirtyzero over the summer for school, and I was like dude, Ilove sales right. And then from there, the next three years I spent asa sales manager with that company, teaching, you know, fresh collegestudents with very little sales experience, often times they didn't even want to getinto sales, how to go door to door. And what I found outin doing that and kind of going up the ranks with the company and eventuallybecoming their marketing sales director and building call centers for them and kind of travelingaround the country training new students. Is that we're pretty good at this,talking to people that don't know who we are saying. And I started thinkingabout, in two thousand and thirteen ish, how do I help other companies dothis, especially over the phone, because I got that call center experiencefor by a three year period of training reps and building teams and hiring managersand that sort of thing. And what I noticed is that, I meanstill to this day, it so many people, there's so much reluctance topick up the phone and call people. There's hardly any systems. When itcomes to outbound. Most companies have a discovery framework, they know how todo demos, there's a lot of structure out there, but with outbound theadvice is always here's a list, here's a script and some email temple.It's like get after it. Even companies that are using sales engagement tools providevery, very little on the way of let's step back outside of the tacticsand let's just teach our team, like what are the strategies here and whatare the kind of the why components behind how we do outbound. How dowe teach this and give it the same, you know, level of seriousness thatwe do when we're selling to people? You know? So that's that's howwe kind of got into. I'm happy to dig into anything more thatyou want, but that's that's been my journey. Well, I thank youfor sharing that my question. Let's talk about outbound and let's talk about gettingpeople's attention. What are you teaching people these days? And obviously, likemany, I'm sure you hear this all the time, but as the recipientof outbound, to your point, it feels increasingly like people are resorting tovolume over thoughtfulness or personalization and the you know, I used to be whenI was a sales manager, I was a big advocate of cold calls.I'm receiving lots of cold calls now and they and as much as I respectsales people, of course I do, and I love human beings, theyare just so annoying. It feels like they're increasingly annoying, like it feelsmore and more in the digital age like calling somebody without a scheduled appointment isbecoming, for some reason, the perception I have is more and more aggressive. Yeah, so there's a lot of there's not like there's a gripe inthere. But the specific question is how...

...our what are the best teams doingin order to really, really be good at outbounding that you see the lessgood teams doing or not doing? Yes, there's three kind of key shifts thatyou want to make high level, and then I'm happy to get astactical as you want with the cold email or the cold call, all thatkind of stuff. So the three shifts really center around one theme and Icall it prospecting narcissism. It's a play on conversational narcissism, which I learnedfrom my therapist. Conversational Narcissism is at your tendency that when someone shares something, you know if I share or if you shared. Sam, Hey,I'm really into UFC. Are you could watching the fight tomorrow? And Isaid Yeah, I am into UFC, and then I just start going offand completely changing the subject and making the rest of that conversation about how I'minto it and how I used to do point tie and how I love watchingConno McGregor and all this other stuff. That's called a shift response. Sothe shift response. What we need to do instead is what's called a supportresponse, and a support response is when you share something, I lean inand think about well, what's like? How does Sam feel about this?What is he actually interested in? What could I learn about him as aperson done by digging in? Did he used to do MMA? Is Hereally into that? Does he play sports, etc. And what we do insales. The prospecting narcissism version of that is that as soon as theprospect picks up the phone, we're like, Oh my God, this is oneof five people that's going to pick up the phone to their one oftwenty people. Actually, more realistically, I got to get my pitch out. Oh, prospect shared. Oh yeah, we're hiring sales people. Oh Bam, well, we can help you a training, we have a solutionthat can do this. It's it's the conversation immediately flips to us and whatwe can do and what we can help. So the shift here is we needto be aware that our natural inclination is going to be to talk aboutourselves and to make the focus of the conversation on what we can do tohelp them with their problem. I want to completely do a one hundred andeightyther. So the three things that we need to think about our one.There's this bucket, this three part framework. The first part is identify. Thisis how we choose the accounts and the people we decide to reach outto. The shift in balance that we need to find is this mass blastversus quality. First and what we really need to do is think about howwe segment the people that were reaching out to, and it needs to beway deeper than we help companies with a thousand to five thousand employees that sellsoftware. That's not specific enough, because what you need to do is figureout what the pockets are in there in the situations that make talking about yourproduct or service relevant for them. So an example of that as I workwith the company that sells an automated welding solution. It's hardware as a serviceand software as a service. A trigger they know is that when companies arehiring welders, three or more welders, and they specifically have a special skillset. I'm forgetting what the specific skill set is of welders, migwelders iswhat it's called. When they're hiring migwelders, three or more of them, andthey sell you. One of their...

...verticals is trailers that are fifty flusplus feet long. That makes them a very good fit to have a conversation. So that's taking the whole land of manufacturers, and I'm getting really specific, into the ones that are actually hiring, that have the skill sets that theyneed, that actually have the parts that we could help with. Okay, way, that's for it's that's the first thing, right, which isidentification, better identification, better identification and specifically, more segmentation so that youcan do volume at scale based on situations that you see your target marketing.That's number one. Makes a lot of sense. Number two is engage.So this is how we decide to start conversations with our prospects. That's yourcold emails, your cold calls, how you sequence all that stuff. Thebig shift that we need to make here is we need to move from eccentricmessaging to eucentric messaging. Eccentric is if you talk about your product and whatit does and how much money it can save or how much it can getbetter results, all that stuff. You can't start the conversation with that.You need to start the conversation with the prospect and the difference is in acold call when you do a permission based opener and I say Hey Sam,got thirty seconds for me to tell you why I'm calling you. Coleting.If one keep chatting, Sam says yes. If what comes out of my mouthnext is well, it blissful prospecting. We train companies like zoom, butDAHIA. We help the rest our teams, one of our clients,increase the results from one to nine percent conversion in or like. Now,don't do your elevator pitch there. You actually need to do a priority dropand say something like this. Hey Sam, we're talking to a lot of VP'sof manufacturing right now and one thing that we're noticing is that they're havinga heck of a time hiring welders. I notice that you guys are hiringwelders right now and really big focus is how do we get more of thesepeople in, because they're not really retaining them that well. We're having topush back our production targets to do so. The second thing I hear is theYada, Yada, Yada. I'm starting the cold call or that emailor whatever it might be with your world first. Do you want to USstop after that for and sae like? Is that something that you're having aproblem with? Like to create a little bit of engagement from there, fromthe person answering the phone? Yeah, is that something you're running across rightnow? Are you focused in those areas? Any of that kind of conversational nuancesgreat, and the big thing that I really believe you're too is thatwe actually are giving reps too many tactics. I could tactics are great. Iteach them to how to see quents and, you know, a littlebomb emails that you can use on all this other stuff. But if youdon't fundamentally understand, when you're talking to a VP ORC level, what theytend to be focused on and what they're working on, what's going to grabtheir attention, it doesn't matter how many time you reach out to someone orhow cool the video is that you setting them. You need to demonstrate businessacumen. Sets number two. Number three is create. So we have identify, engage, create. That's your ability to take a conversation and create anopportunity out of that. Typically that involves some objection handling, which I'm happyto dig into. But really with the shift want to make is this onefrom always be closing, the Glen Gary, Glenn, Ross Alec Balddwin Seen,which I love. That movie,...

...really really bad example of how todo sales. Yeah, we need to go from always be closing to teach, don't take so. What I want to know as a prospect if you'regoing to spend thirty minutes with me, is I don't want to see ademo of your thing. If we use the example with the welding company,what I want to promise you and that time is we're going to talk aboutwhat other manufacturers are doing right now to deal with the labor shortage around weldersand we're going to talk about the fifty percent or so of your product mixedthat it sounds like you're having a tough time automating that high custom low volumeproduct that you're building right now. While you're having trouble automating it, I'mgoing to give you something in return for your time and share insights along withdoing my demo or whatever it might be. So those are the three really bigareas where when companies make those shifts, we get look pretty good results ina relatively quickly short amount of time. Excuse me, when they make thesethese shifts. What's your perspective? You know what's we're recording this inDecember, two thousand and twenty one. What's your most sin take on kindof channel, meaning, you know, is it Omni Channel? Is itheavy on Linkedin? Is it linkedin voice messages? Are there certain channels,like cold calls, that you're not as enthusiastic about as you used to be? What's the ideal you know sequence, so to speak? You know fromyour perspective, like for today, if I wanted, I understand it's definitelygoing to be situational. But just generally speaking, yeah, I use areally simple framework I call kiss keep it simple sequencing. So I think thepeople are actually really overthink this part. The keep it simple sequencing framework isis very simple. You're going to reach out to someone for three weeks.On week one it's going to look like this. On Day one of thatsequence, let's say it's a Tuesday, I'm going to call the person,I'm going to email and I'm going to hit them up on some sort ofsocial channel that they're likely on, which in most cases going to be linkedin. If I get their voicemail, I'm going to point the voicemail to theemail. I'm going to say, Hey, seem I just sent you an email. The subject line is invite. It's about a Webinar we're doing doingwith XYZ competitors on how they can accomplish this. Check out the email Isent yet subject lines invite. And then what I'm going to do day threeof that sequence, so on a Thursday, let's say, is I'm going tocall and going to bump that first email with any thoughts, question MarkJason, and I'm going to follow that same pattern three weeks in a row. Each week is going to focus on a different topic or priority or problem, and that's it. From there. You can use that as a foundationand let the data, let your sales engagement platform, tell you where youneed to double down. But as far as I'm concerned, no one callsenough, no one uses the phone enough, and the recordings I do listen towhen they get a prospect on the phone, they sound super nervous,I'm sure of themselves, or just not comfortable talking with strangers. You knowwhat I mean. So the phone, that's the biggest thing that people needto double down on right now. I think if you're selling to marketers andsales leaders, linkedin's a good channel. But my come my client that sellsinto manufacturers. Linked, it's not a great channel for them. I gotanother company that sells into clinical operations roles at medical devices companies. Linked isnot a great channel for them. Phone...

...and email or like all the way, you know. So to me everything needs to be built around whatever you'redoing over the phone and with email you can add on top of that.Don't take phone and email out. When you hear me say because I'm alwayshyper aware. I'm always aware that sometimes people say they want something but theiractions indicate otherwise, or that they don't like something, like me saying Idon't like cold calling, but the data might indicate that. Well, that'sgreat, Sam but it works, you know. And so when you hearme say that, and I guess I'm specifically wondering about the and this islike I gave too much money to I candidates over them some political cycle orsomething like that, because like, I'm getting just flooded and you know,you pick up the phone. So, first of all, local presents.Right, I'm in New York. I get a nine, seven or twoon two number and I think, oh, maybe it's something relevant and of coursethere's a three second to five second of silence when I pick up thephone as whatever software it is, whether it's connect and sell or something else, is connecting to the call center person, and so like it immediately. Itjust it, just mediately. Is this really, really off putting experiencefor me as a prospect? And so, you know, typically I hang upright away. Also, of course, it's like in the middle of theday and we've all got busy calendars and I got a busy calendar,and so I realize, you know, my wife's not in the hospital,it's not an emergency. At somebody trying to sell me something and I hangup the phone and I'm I prefer personally, I state that I prefer to youasynchronous email communication, like s me an email. I'll go to youknow, if it's interesting, all right back and if it's not, Iwon't. So when I say that all that stuff, what's your reaction?As it is, it is it. That's great that you know. That'syour point of view, Sam but we have data that indicates cold callings effective. Is Cold calling less or more effective than it used to be? What'syour take on calling? Well, my take on calling and tearing. Whatyou have to say is that you're a really good example of people have personalpreferences. You know, as ironic as it might sound, I don't pickup the phone and take cold calls either, even though I teach people to doit. It's just not a way I'm you know, I don't thinkit's generational because thirty two, I'm supposed to be your young store. Youknow people that like to talk over the phone. I don't know compared topeople in their twenties that might want to talk through whenever social channel. Thedata does support it, but really, anecdotally with my clients it works too. So the way that you can think of it as like this, Samand for everyone listening, is I really like there's a book written by anyDick. It's called thinking and bets, and the whole philosophy around this bookis how do we treat things in our personal life like it's a bet?So in poker it's all about increasing your odds of winning and making the bestof the hand that you're dealt. When I think of outbound I think ofit like this. According to Gong, the average success rate for cold calling, you have a one percent chance of a positive outcome on a cold calland it's around clear bit. This is...

...a couple years olds. There mightbe something a little newer than this, but clear bit it was around onepoint two to one point five percent chance of a positive response in an email, which, honestly, with the work I've seen that that sounds high tome. So between those two, let's call it a couple percentage point chancethat there's a one or two out of a hundred chance that you get apositive reply to someone. So what can you do in order to increase theodds of getting a positive reply? Well, one, you're cutting your chances inhalf if you don't use the phone to if you're using a dialer witha three to five second delay in the beginning of it, a lot ofpeople are going to hang up. That's decreasing your odds. If I startwith an elevator pitch, if I don't use a permission based open, ifI don't do all of these things, I'm decreasing the odds of success ina cold call. The best cold callers I've seen in personally work with.One out of three connects that they get on the cold call they secure ameeting, and that has to also do with how good the list is.Right they're calling people that they know are good fits, so they've done theresearch beforehand. But to me that's top one percenter status right there, asif one out of every three connects that you get you can convert into aqualified meeting and actually get a sales process started with, that's pretty good.So to me it's how do we get to that, from that one percentto that thirty three percent? And if you're not using the phone, you'remissing out on half of the opportunities, just according to the data. SoI think about it as a game of odds. And then what are allthe things that we can do to stack the odds in our favor in acold call? Researching the person beforehand, talking about them first, knowing whatkind of problems they might have, being able to bring that up in thecold call, having done it enough that you're very confident, you have theconviction, you have the experience, you sound like a peer. All ofthose things are going to increase your chances. So I'm very bullish on the phone. And it doesn't apply across all industries, but the clients I workwas sell into hospitals, manufacturing, they sell into marketing leaders, sales leaders, all of that kind of stuff. I see the phone being the mosteffective way to get the meeting. Well, I love that answer. Thoughtful andmakes complete sense. You know, any Duke has been on this podcasttalking about thinking another one thinking. Yeah, it's like one of the Chiefsten tothat. Go back. It's like one of the very first episodes Ihad her and Dan Pink. We came out of the gates with a bangback and call. I'm a huge fan. Yeah, I'M gonna have to goback and listen to that. She's really cool. It's a really coolbook actually, because it's a very funny book. I. It starts offand you're like, Oh, this is just like a way of thinking aboutprobabilities, and then by the end of it it's really like a way ofthinking about your existence in the universe. It gets very metaphysical. So it'sright now. Okay, last topic before we ask for your influences. SoI'm thinking about you know, you're out there talking about you know, SDRs, talking to reps, talking to companies and you probably have a point ofview, not just on you know, the framework that you listed of identify. Tell me what it was again.

It was it was identify, engage, create and identify, engage create. Right, and I'd written it down. But you probably have a point of view in like you know what isthe optimal text ac you know, if you're if you're thinking about a theoreticalrep that you feel is just really well positioned, has all of the tools, all of the resources, the perfect environment to do all of these things. We can name vendors if we want, but specifically, like the categories,like what are the different things you have to be aware of? Isit? First, I would think if you're going to be good at identifying, you need a like a list building tool, which you agree with that? Yeah, so I like to keep it super basic here. You needsomething gain. You need sells navigator. That's a must. So sales navigatorand I want a couple that with a way to get good phone numbers andemails. Son, vote for that. Or what do you use? Yeah, zoom if was great. It's really expensive, but oftentimes what I findis you get a pair, two or three tools together interesting and I don'tthink the rep should be the person doing this, by the way, orthis should be obviously they should be ops. But Sam, I mean you probablysee it too, like every company, even the largest companies, they havethese really high paid salaried employees a he's especially, doing their own datamining. It's crazy to me. But yeah, you need sales navigator andwhat a couple that with a zoom info and then like a lead Iq ora zoom INFO and Apollo. Again, that's going to be industry contact,contextual to depending on who you're selling into. But I need that to engage people. I'm going to want to sales engagement platform. Your outreaches are great. There's like simple ones like Apollo and look out play. If you're runninga smaller teams, you know, kind of thing might be applicable. Butyou can't go wrong, you know, with with any of those. Andthen what I want is a tool to send videos with which so I treadyour or you know some yeah, between you and me, Sam and therest of you guys, use the free version. The free versions great.You know, get your team doing video first and see some success before youthrow down, you know, bunch of money on getting the paid version ofit. Just get them using it first. This is the free version. Specificallya vide yard, Yep, videyard drift, you know, is agreat one too, that I really like. So so I'm going to want touse those two things. And then I'm operating under the assumption that youhave a crm that integrates with these tools, so sales force or hub spots orsomething like that, and that's it. Keep it super simple. Right there, that's all you needed for selling to publicly traded companies, I like. Seeking Alpha is a great tool to do that research because you can gettranscripts of their quarterly reports and earnings reports and their decks for those reports.I mean there's all kinds of cool stuff that you can get there. Butthat and then just being really good on Google with different you know, sortof bully and operators and things like that, and ways to run searches, andyou're good to go. Do you have a point of view on areyou like a Home Office person? Like you have a point of view onthe best headset, the best chair? Some people have points of view onthose things. I mean Jabra is probably...

...got the best headsets. I don't. I just use my ear pods, honestly, fare so yeah, youknow, I'm to be fair. You know, see, I'm I'm notsitting Monday through Friday at my desk making calls all day, you know.So if I was doing that, it might have a more comfortable headset orsomething like that that with a longer battery life, better quality of that kindof thing. But yeah, I am really big on investing into things thatyou spend a lot of time on. So your chair, definitely you spendtwo or three hundred bucks and get a decent chair. If you got moremoney to spend that, absolutely do it. But get a good chair, havea good organomics set up with your desk, something that can be standingor sitting, you know, get a second monitor, all of those kindof things. Like your workspace needs to be really comfortable for you to getwork done fair enough something. I've never, never been good at that and arenever done it. I'm still I work off of a West down littlewhite desk and a tiny little chair that I think is for dining room tablesand not for orgonomic anything. So I'm an idiot. Jason Lads, partof the show. We want to pay it for. I just did it. I just did that thing, that terrible thing, the narcissistic thing,where I made it about man what we want to pay it forward. Whoare the people that have influenced you? What are the books you mentioned?Any Duke? You mentioned thinking in bets. What are some other important ideas orpeople or concepts that you think we should be aware of? Yeah,I really like reading books that are not sales books to learn about sales.Michael Port he wrote a book called a book yourself solid, which I don'trecommend you read necessarily unless you're a business owner. But the quote from thatbook he said something along the lines of business problems are really personal problems indisguise. One hundred percent I believe that the stuff that you find yourself strugglingwith, so dealing with rejection in your sales life, you probably don't likegetting feedback in your personal life. There's probably a connection between those two things. So I like reading stuff that's not sales. Warranted couple book recommendations you'renot listening by Katie Murphy. That was assigned homework for my wife, soI I recommend you read that. The other person that's had a really bigimpact on my life is Anthony and Areno. I consider him a mentor and hewrote several books. You eat their eat their lunch. The only salesguy you'll ever need. The last start of closing, I think was theother one, but a lesson that he shared with me. I really believethat confidence is such a key part of your success and there isn't really alot of stuff that you can do to like magically build your confidence in yourthere's like a script that you can like look at and just repeat to yourself, and I think everyone's kind of got their own thing. But he toldme something. He said, Jason, what makes you uncomfortable in life willhold you back. And my sort of mantra after that is anything that makesme uncomfortable in my personal or professional life...

...is a sign that I really needto lean in and explore that thing and get it to where it's not uncomfortablefor me anymore. And a lot of what I've been spending time on rightnow one of my one word themes. I have three of them for twothousand and twenty two. One of them is candor, so really exploring thisidea of how can I just be way more open and transparent with everyone Iengage with in my professional and personal life. So for me that involves having hardconversations with my parents, having hard conversations with my siblings, having hardconversations with my clients and not being afraid to tell them. You know what, I think the way you have this setup is not is doing you adisservice. You're missing out on opportunities because your sales managers aren't coaching your repson a daily basis and I think we have a problem with this particular person, you know, getting really specific like that and not being being afraid totell them that I think whatever they're doing might suck and to invite that samefeedback. You know, for me I think that's super important and he hasa really had a really big impact on my life with that. And then, if I had to make, you know, one more recommendation, becauseI listen to podcasts, I think the thirty minutes to President's Club podcast withNick and Urmand. If you're into sales, that's a really good, you know, kind of tactical podcast to listen to. That I recommend for salespeople. So I think it between those things. Those are kind of thebig influences and kind of recommendations off the top of my head that come tomind. I love it and I hope everything's okay with your parents, sinceit sounds like you're thinking about some direct conversations with them. I understand myparents are visiting in a few minutes. Actually, okay, I don't knowif I'm a US candor. I might just swallow it and gring to embart. That's just a joke. I love my parents, Jason. If folkswant to reach out to you, maybe they want to hire you, maybethey want to pick your brain. What's the best way to reach you?So blissful PROSPECTINGCOM. So you're going to find a couple things there. Soone, if you're like hey, this sounds really good. Do you gotany more free stuff? Yes, we got plenty of that. There's podcastask, there's guides on how to do video prospecting, there's reply method frameworkfor emails, of all the stuff that we didn't really get a chance todig into a lot today. There's a bunch of stuff there. I postcontent every day on Linkedin, on outbound specifically. And then, if you'rea rep and you're looking to invest in yourself, we have a program calledoutbound squad and essentially their concept here is that, you know, I don'tbelieve that to get into the top five percent of the profession that you needto consume more content. It's that you need to get better at putting thatcontent into action. So it's coaching. There's an application only community in there. We have really good training content and how to do outbound, the samestuff I use with companies like zoom and Medalia. So hit me up thereif that's something. And then for companies to if you have a SDR,Tam beat our team. I'm working mostly with eighty teams these days and mixed, you know, kind of teams coming in with as and SDRs. Butif you're looking for them to prospect more like what we talked about today,we have programs for that too. So plist full prospect incom is going tobe the best place to hit me up.

Sounds Great. Jason, thanks somuch for being on the show. We're going to talk to you onFriday for Friday fundamentals. Awesome. This is great. Thank you SAM.Thank you, hey everybody. Sam Jacobs, SAM's corner. Great conversation with JasonBay. I really think the things that he's teaching or things the worldneeds to needs to learn and to understand, which is that this blunt, Instrumeant, brute force approach to getting people's attention is not working and youneed to be thoughtful and you need to take the time to segment and youneed to identify triggers and understand the people that you're selling to and make itabout them, not you. I think that's true of so much in theworld, that you got to make it about other people. It's not aboutyou, it's not about what your product can do, it's about what theirproblems are, what their challenges are. And then, I think you knowthe lat he has this framework. He calls it identify, engage, create. The last piece of it is teach. Don't take right you're not trying toclose, you're not trying to sell. What you're trying to do is geta meeting and the way that you're going to get that meeting is byteaching them something and making it interesting. So I thought it was a greatconversation. Reminder to thank our sponsors. We have three sponsors for the show. The first is outreach. The first and only engagement and intelligence platform builtby revenue innovators. The second is pavilion. Help US plant FIFTYZERO trains. Signup using a friend's REFRA link and we'll plant two hundred and fifty treesevery single time. And vid yard the best way to sell in a virtualworld. Connect with Moraley. It's qualify. More opportunities are close, more deals. Trivid yard for free by signing up at vidyardcom. Forward, slash, free help. Everybody's doing safe, having a happy holidays. I'll talkto you next time.

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