The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 7 months ago

Your New 3-Part Framework for Cold Calling

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode of the Sales Hacker Podcast, we have Jason Bay, Chief Prospecting Officer at Blissful Prospecting, a company he built to coach B2B reps in outbound sales. Join us for a high-energy, people-focused conversation about doing a complete 180 with your outbound sales framework.

What You’ll Learn

  1. What to use instead of the brute force approach
  2. The 3-part framework of identify, engage, create
  3. You’re trying to get a meeting, not a closing
  4. Jason’s take on omnichannel outreach, especially calling

Show Agenda and Timestamps

  1. About Jason Bay & Blissful Prospecting [1:52]
  2. What teams need to be doing for successful outbound [9:12]
  3. The 3-part outbound framework [10:58]
  4. KISS: Keep It Simple Sequencing [16:39]
  5. Ideal tools for great prospecting [24:18]
  6. Paying it forward [28:43]
  7. Sam’s Corner [33:24]

One, two, one, three, hey everybody, it's Sam Jacobs. Welcome to the salesacker podcast. Today on the show we've got Jason Bay. Jason is runs a company called blissful prospecting and any focuses a lot on how to get people's attention and how to have a meeting in a productive way. It's a really great conversation. Now, before we get there, we've got three sponsors for the show. The first is pavilion. Pavilion is the key to getting more out of your career. Our private membership gives you access to thousands of like minded peers, dozens of courses in schools for Pavilion University and over Onezero work books, templates, scripts and play books to accelerate your development. This December, pavilion is partnering with Ecology to try and plant fiftyzero trees and try and remove some carbon from the atmosphere. For every member that joins that's referred by another member, will plant two hundred and fifty trees per person. So help us plant fiftyzero trees this holiday season and sign up using a friends referral link. We're also brought to you by videyard. FIDYARD is the best way to sell in a virtual world, whether you need to connect with more leads, qualify more opportunities or close more deals. FIDYARDS video messages make it easy record your Webcam, your screen or both to make prospecting videos, follow ups, product Demos and other communications that drive virtual selling. DRIVIDYARD for free by signing up at vidyardcom for free. And finally, outreach outreaches, the first and only engagement and intelligence platform built by revenue innovators for revenue innovator's outreach allows you to commit to accurate sales forecasting, replace manual process with real time guidance and unlock actionable customer intelligence that guys you and your team to win more often, traditional tools don't work and a hybrid sales world. Find out why outreaches the right solution at click dot outreach io for thirty MPC. Click dot outreach dot io forward slash thirty MPC. Now let's listen to my conversation with Jason Bay. Hey everybody, it's Sam Jacobs. Welcome to the salesacker podcast. Today on the show we're excited to have Jason Bay. Jason is the chief prospecting officer at blissful prospecting. He's on a mission to help reps and sales teams turn complete strangers into paying customers. A few of his clients have included reps and sales teams from companies like zoom, CBR Medallia, ex affinity, com vault and many, many more. Sales is the only adult job he's ever had and he's done everything from selling house painting services door to door running up on call centers to helping thousands of reps master cold outreach. Jason, welcome to the show. I'm excited to be here. Sam So, as you know as a longtime listener, we start with your baseball card. So you are the chief prospecting officer at blissful prospecting. Tell us what is blissful prospecting? Sir, he has funny I know you start with the baseball card. Hopefully no one's confusing me with Jason Bay, the baseball player, because that like I get that all the time I go to the airport. I'm like, I look nothing like this guy's very much. I'm not. I'm not familiar enough with all of the all of the major really gets all players to make that confusion, but I appreciate that it happens to you and hear better looking than the guy that plays baseball. Maybe I mean you.

He's not a super young he's not Brad Pitt. You know kind of the kind of situation. But I'll take it to blissful prospecting. The reason why we started blissful prospecting is that you guys have put data output at pavilion on sales belt. My reports. Bridge Group is put it out and know the kind of the big problem every year is that it gets harder and harder and harder to get the attention of our prospects and what you see going up, as well as the number of attempts that it takes to get a hold of prospects. And when we saw this problem happening, I started the company with my wife actually five years ago. Prior to that, the previous five years, I had done a lot of work and call centers and I noticed that a lot of the you'll be to be companies I would consult with after that, and the BBC companies as well, is that they didn't really have a good inside sales team. You know in motion, especially the the bet be folks, they weren't really doing a lot of the basic things that seem pretty fundamental now, like personalizing in email, you know, not not sounding like a robot when you call someone, prioritizing the prospects needs and their challenges and their priorities first, and the way that we started fixing that problem was by doing appointment setting for them. So that's what we were doing five, six years ago, and in the last two or three years we shifted more into training and coaching, which is really more my sweet spot, what I've really enjoyed in my sales career as being a sales manager and really getting to coach and train and work hands on and like do some of the work alongside of them. So, yeah, we started working with small businesses and now we're working with some of the largest SASS companies out. There are some really large professional services companies as well, and it's really all centered around how do we fix this problem of instead of attacking this problem by volume, how do we really stick out and break through the clutter in the inbox and the Linkedin DM's over the phone? It's a so that's what we're up to. How big is the organization? It is me. I have a couple other coaches that help in our programs and a couple virtual assistants. That's that's it. We keep it pretty lean. I mean, I love it and and well, I've I mean, can we? Is it okay if we dive? I I want to hear more about your background, but I have so many thoughts about this topic that I'm excited to chat with you. Let's let's start quickly with your background. So how did you get into this? What's your I rented in your bio that you've you know, you've been in sales and kind of making money and hustling for a very long time. But where you're from, how to you know, tell us about some of those early experiences that led you here? Yeah, so I grew up in a city called Brookings in Oregon. It's about five thousand people. It's in the very lower left hand corner of organ as close as you can need to California. And when I went to college, this is in two thousand and seven, I wanted to be a forensic scientist and just out of luck, someone came into my classroom and talked about and opportunity to run a house painting business to make money for schools. A large company. How much in the specific name, but they essentially hire college students and teach them how to run a hund house painting franchise. So I didn't know, Sam when I did that job and...

...started in the spring that I would be going door to door. That never registered for me. So naturally the first thing I did, because I'm a bit of a Nerd, is I bought Little Red Book of selling because it was the best selling sales book on the shelf at boarders or wherever it was, and it bought a house painting for Dunny's book so I could understand how to talk to people about it. And Long Story Short, I did really well. I sold a hundred thousand dollars worth the paint jobs over a four or five month period. I mean like Thirtyzero over the summer for school, and I was like dude, I love sales right. And then from there, the next three years I spent as a sales manager with that company, teaching, you know, fresh college students with very little sales experience, often times they didn't even want to get into sales, how to go door to door. And what I found out in doing that and kind of going up the ranks with the company and eventually becoming their marketing sales director and building call centers for them and kind of traveling around the country training new students. Is that we're pretty good at this, talking to people that don't know who we are saying. And I started thinking about, in two thousand and thirteen ish, how do I help other companies do this, especially over the phone, because I got that call center experience for by a three year period of training reps and building teams and hiring managers and that sort of thing. And what I noticed is that, I mean still to this day, it so many people, there's so much reluctance to pick up the phone and call people. There's hardly any systems. When it comes to outbound. Most companies have a discovery framework, they know how to do demos, there's a lot of structure out there, but with outbound the advice is always here's a list, here's a script and some email temple. It's like get after it. Even companies that are using sales engagement tools provide very, very little on the way of let's step back outside of the tactics and let's just teach our team, like what are the strategies here and what are the kind of the why components behind how we do outbound. How do we teach this and give it the same, you know, level of seriousness that we do when we're selling to people? You know? So that's that's how we kind of got into. I'm happy to dig into anything more that you want, but that's that's been my journey. Well, I thank you for sharing that my question. Let's talk about outbound and let's talk about getting people's attention. What are you teaching people these days? And obviously, like many, I'm sure you hear this all the time, but as the recipient of outbound, to your point, it feels increasingly like people are resorting to volume over thoughtfulness or personalization and the you know, I used to be when I was a sales manager, I was a big advocate of cold calls. I'm receiving lots of cold calls now and they and as much as I respect sales people, of course I do, and I love human beings, they are just so annoying. It feels like they're increasingly annoying, like it feels more and more in the digital age like calling somebody without a scheduled appointment is becoming, for some reason, the perception I have is more and more aggressive. Yeah, so there's a lot of there's not like there's a gripe in there. But the specific question is how...

...our what are the best teams doing in order to really, really be good at outbounding that you see the less good teams doing or not doing? Yes, there's three kind of key shifts that you want to make high level, and then I'm happy to get as tactical as you want with the cold email or the cold call, all that kind of stuff. So the three shifts really center around one theme and I call it prospecting narcissism. It's a play on conversational narcissism, which I learned from my therapist. Conversational Narcissism is at your tendency that when someone shares something, you know if I share or if you shared. Sam, Hey, I'm really into UFC. Are you could watching the fight tomorrow? And I said Yeah, I am into UFC, and then I just start going off and completely changing the subject and making the rest of that conversation about how I'm into it and how I used to do point tie and how I love watching Conno McGregor and all this other stuff. That's called a shift response. So the shift response. What we need to do instead is what's called a support response, and a support response is when you share something, I lean in and think about well, what's like? How does Sam feel about this? What is he actually interested in? What could I learn about him as a person done by digging in? Did he used to do MMA? Is He really into that? Does he play sports, etc. And what we do in sales. The prospecting narcissism version of that is that as soon as the prospect picks up the phone, we're like, Oh my God, this is one of five people that's going to pick up the phone to their one of twenty people. Actually, more realistically, I got to get my pitch out. Oh, prospect shared. Oh yeah, we're hiring sales people. Oh Bam, well, we can help you a training, we have a solution that can do this. It's it's the conversation immediately flips to us and what we can do and what we can help. So the shift here is we need to be aware that our natural inclination is going to be to talk about ourselves and to make the focus of the conversation on what we can do to help them with their problem. I want to completely do a one hundred and eightyther. So the three things that we need to think about our one. There's this bucket, this three part framework. The first part is identify. This is how we choose the accounts and the people we decide to reach out to. The shift in balance that we need to find is this mass blast versus quality. First and what we really need to do is think about how we segment the people that were reaching out to, and it needs to be way deeper than we help companies with a thousand to five thousand employees that sell software. That's not specific enough, because what you need to do is figure out what the pockets are in there in the situations that make talking about your product or service relevant for them. So an example of that as I work with the company that sells an automated welding solution. It's hardware as a service and software as a service. A trigger they know is that when companies are hiring welders, three or more welders, and they specifically have a special skill set. I'm forgetting what the specific skill set is of welders, migwelders is what it's called. When they're hiring migwelders, three or more of them, and they sell you. One of their...

...verticals is trailers that are fifty flus plus feet long. That makes them a very good fit to have a conversation. So that's taking the whole land of manufacturers, and I'm getting really specific, into the ones that are actually hiring, that have the skill sets that they need, that actually have the parts that we could help with. Okay, way, that's for it's that's the first thing, right, which is identification, better identification, better identification and specifically, more segmentation so that you can do volume at scale based on situations that you see your target marketing. That's number one. Makes a lot of sense. Number two is engage. So this is how we decide to start conversations with our prospects. That's your cold emails, your cold calls, how you sequence all that stuff. The big shift that we need to make here is we need to move from eccentric messaging to eucentric messaging. Eccentric is if you talk about your product and what it does and how much money it can save or how much it can get better results, all that stuff. You can't start the conversation with that. You need to start the conversation with the prospect and the difference is in a cold call when you do a permission based opener and I say Hey Sam, got thirty seconds for me to tell you why I'm calling you. Coleting. If one keep chatting, Sam says yes. If what comes out of my mouth next is well, it blissful prospecting. We train companies like zoom, but DAHIA. We help the rest our teams, one of our clients, increase the results from one to nine percent conversion in or like. Now, don't do your elevator pitch there. You actually need to do a priority drop and say something like this. Hey Sam, we're talking to a lot of VP's of manufacturing right now and one thing that we're noticing is that they're having a heck of a time hiring welders. I notice that you guys are hiring welders right now and really big focus is how do we get more of these people in, because they're not really retaining them that well. We're having to push back our production targets to do so. The second thing I hear is the Yada, Yada, Yada. I'm starting the cold call or that email or whatever it might be with your world first. Do you want to US stop after that for and sae like? Is that something that you're having a problem with? Like to create a little bit of engagement from there, from the person answering the phone? Yeah, is that something you're running across right now? Are you focused in those areas? Any of that kind of conversational nuances great, and the big thing that I really believe you're too is that we actually are giving reps too many tactics. I could tactics are great. I teach them to how to see quents and, you know, a little bomb emails that you can use on all this other stuff. But if you don't fundamentally understand, when you're talking to a VP ORC level, what they tend to be focused on and what they're working on, what's going to grab their attention, it doesn't matter how many time you reach out to someone or how cool the video is that you setting them. You need to demonstrate business acumen. Sets number two. Number three is create. So we have identify, engage, create. That's your ability to take a conversation and create an opportunity out of that. Typically that involves some objection handling, which I'm happy to dig into. But really with the shift want to make is this one from always be closing, the Glen Gary, Glenn, Ross Alec Balddwin Seen, which I love. That movie,...

...really really bad example of how to do sales. Yeah, we need to go from always be closing to teach, don't take so. What I want to know as a prospect if you're going to spend thirty minutes with me, is I don't want to see a demo of your thing. If we use the example with the welding company, what I want to promise you and that time is we're going to talk about what other manufacturers are doing right now to deal with the labor shortage around welders and we're going to talk about the fifty percent or so of your product mixed that it sounds like you're having a tough time automating that high custom low volume product that you're building right now. While you're having trouble automating it, I'm going to give you something in return for your time and share insights along with doing my demo or whatever it might be. So those are the three really big areas where when companies make those shifts, we get look pretty good results in a relatively quickly short amount of time. Excuse me, when they make these these shifts. What's your perspective? You know what's we're recording this in December, two thousand and twenty one. What's your most sin take on kind of channel, meaning, you know, is it Omni Channel? Is it heavy on Linkedin? Is it linkedin voice messages? Are there certain channels, like cold calls, that you're not as enthusiastic about as you used to be? What's the ideal you know sequence, so to speak? You know from your perspective, like for today, if I wanted, I understand it's definitely going to be situational. But just generally speaking, yeah, I use a really simple framework I call kiss keep it simple sequencing. So I think the people are actually really overthink this part. The keep it simple sequencing framework is is very simple. You're going to reach out to someone for three weeks. On week one it's going to look like this. On Day one of that sequence, let's say it's a Tuesday, I'm going to call the person, I'm going to email and I'm going to hit them up on some sort of social channel that they're likely on, which in most cases going to be linkedin. If I get their voicemail, I'm going to point the voicemail to the email. I'm going to say, Hey, seem I just sent you an email. The subject line is invite. It's about a Webinar we're doing doing with XYZ competitors on how they can accomplish this. Check out the email I sent yet subject lines invite. And then what I'm going to do day three of that sequence, so on a Thursday, let's say, is I'm going to call and going to bump that first email with any thoughts, question Mark Jason, and I'm going to follow that same pattern three weeks in a row. Each week is going to focus on a different topic or priority or problem, and that's it. From there. You can use that as a foundation and let the data, let your sales engagement platform, tell you where you need to double down. But as far as I'm concerned, no one calls enough, no one uses the phone enough, and the recordings I do listen to when they get a prospect on the phone, they sound super nervous, I'm sure of themselves, or just not comfortable talking with strangers. You know what I mean. So the phone, that's the biggest thing that people need to double down on right now. I think if you're selling to marketers and sales leaders, linkedin's a good channel. But my come my client that sells into manufacturers. Linked, it's not a great channel for them. I got another company that sells into clinical operations roles at medical devices companies. Linked is not a great channel for them. Phone...

...and email or like all the way, you know. So to me everything needs to be built around whatever you're doing over the phone and with email you can add on top of that. Don't take phone and email out. When you hear me say because I'm always hyper aware. I'm always aware that sometimes people say they want something but their actions indicate otherwise, or that they don't like something, like me saying I don't like cold calling, but the data might indicate that. Well, that's great, Sam but it works, you know. And so when you hear me say that, and I guess I'm specifically wondering about the and this is like I gave too much money to I candidates over them some political cycle or something like that, because like, I'm getting just flooded and you know, you pick up the phone. So, first of all, local presents. Right, I'm in New York. I get a nine, seven or two on two number and I think, oh, maybe it's something relevant and of course there's a three second to five second of silence when I pick up the phone as whatever software it is, whether it's connect and sell or something else, is connecting to the call center person, and so like it immediately. It just it, just mediately. Is this really, really off putting experience for me as a prospect? And so, you know, typically I hang up right away. Also, of course, it's like in the middle of the day and we've all got busy calendars and I got a busy calendar, and so I realize, you know, my wife's not in the hospital, it's not an emergency. At somebody trying to sell me something and I hang up the phone and I'm I prefer personally, I state that I prefer to you asynchronous email communication, like s me an email. I'll go to you know, if it's interesting, all right back and if it's not, I won't. So when I say that all that stuff, what's your reaction? As it is, it is it. That's great that you know. That's your point of view, Sam but we have data that indicates cold callings effective. Is Cold calling less or more effective than it used to be? What's your take on calling? Well, my take on calling and tearing. What you have to say is that you're a really good example of people have personal preferences. You know, as ironic as it might sound, I don't pick up the phone and take cold calls either, even though I teach people to do it. It's just not a way I'm you know, I don't think it's generational because thirty two, I'm supposed to be your young store. You know people that like to talk over the phone. I don't know compared to people in their twenties that might want to talk through whenever social channel. The data does support it, but really, anecdotally with my clients it works too. So the way that you can think of it as like this, Sam and for everyone listening, is I really like there's a book written by any Dick. It's called thinking and bets, and the whole philosophy around this book is how do we treat things in our personal life like it's a bet? So in poker it's all about increasing your odds of winning and making the best of the hand that you're dealt. When I think of outbound I think of it like this. According to Gong, the average success rate for cold calling, you have a one percent chance of a positive outcome on a cold call and it's around clear bit. This is...

...a couple years olds. There might be something a little newer than this, but clear bit it was around one point two to one point five percent chance of a positive response in an email, which, honestly, with the work I've seen that that sounds high to me. So between those two, let's call it a couple percentage point chance that there's a one or two out of a hundred chance that you get a positive reply to someone. So what can you do in order to increase the odds of getting a positive reply? Well, one, you're cutting your chances in half if you don't use the phone to if you're using a dialer with a three to five second delay in the beginning of it, a lot of people are going to hang up. That's decreasing your odds. If I start with an elevator pitch, if I don't use a permission based open, if I don't do all of these things, I'm decreasing the odds of success in a cold call. The best cold callers I've seen in personally work with. One out of three connects that they get on the cold call they secure a meeting, and that has to also do with how good the list is. Right they're calling people that they know are good fits, so they've done the research beforehand. But to me that's top one percenter status right there, as if one out of every three connects that you get you can convert into a qualified meeting and actually get a sales process started with, that's pretty good. So to me it's how do we get to that, from that one percent to that thirty three percent? And if you're not using the phone, you're missing out on half of the opportunities, just according to the data. So I think about it as a game of odds. And then what are all the things that we can do to stack the odds in our favor in a cold call? Researching the person beforehand, talking about them first, knowing what kind of problems they might have, being able to bring that up in the cold call, having done it enough that you're very confident, you have the conviction, you have the experience, you sound like a peer. All of those things are going to increase your chances. So I'm very bullish on the phone. And it doesn't apply across all industries, but the clients I work was sell into hospitals, manufacturing, they sell into marketing leaders, sales leaders, all of that kind of stuff. I see the phone being the most effective way to get the meeting. Well, I love that answer. Thoughtful and makes complete sense. You know, any Duke has been on this podcast talking about thinking another one thinking. Yeah, it's like one of the Chiefsten to that. Go back. It's like one of the very first episodes I had her and Dan Pink. We came out of the gates with a bang back and call. I'm a huge fan. Yeah, I'M gonna have to go back and listen to that. She's really cool. It's a really cool book actually, because it's a very funny book. I. It starts off and you're like, Oh, this is just like a way of thinking about probabilities, and then by the end of it it's really like a way of thinking about your existence in the universe. It gets very metaphysical. So it's right now. Okay, last topic before we ask for your influences. So I'm thinking about you know, you're out there talking about you know, SDRs, talking to reps, talking to companies and you probably have a point of view, not just on you know, the framework that you listed of identify. Tell me what it was again.

It was it was identify, engage, create and identify, engage create. Right, and I'd written it down. But you probably have a point of view in like you know what is the optimal text ac you know, if you're if you're thinking about a theoretical rep that you feel is just really well positioned, has all of the tools, all of the resources, the perfect environment to do all of these things. We can name vendors if we want, but specifically, like the categories, like what are the different things you have to be aware of? Is it? First, I would think if you're going to be good at identifying, you need a like a list building tool, which you agree with that? Yeah, so I like to keep it super basic here. You need something gain. You need sells navigator. That's a must. So sales navigator and I want a couple that with a way to get good phone numbers and emails. Son, vote for that. Or what do you use? Yeah, zoom if was great. It's really expensive, but oftentimes what I find is you get a pair, two or three tools together interesting and I don't think the rep should be the person doing this, by the way, or this should be obviously they should be ops. But Sam, I mean you probably see it too, like every company, even the largest companies, they have these really high paid salaried employees a he's especially, doing their own data mining. It's crazy to me. But yeah, you need sales navigator and what a couple that with a zoom info and then like a lead Iq or a zoom INFO and Apollo. Again, that's going to be industry contact, contextual to depending on who you're selling into. But I need that to engage people. I'm going to want to sales engagement platform. Your outreaches are great. There's like simple ones like Apollo and look out play. If you're running a smaller teams, you know, kind of thing might be applicable. But you can't go wrong, you know, with with any of those. And then what I want is a tool to send videos with which so I tread your or you know some yeah, between you and me, Sam and the rest of you guys, use the free version. The free versions great. You know, get your team doing video first and see some success before you throw down, you know, bunch of money on getting the paid version of it. Just get them using it first. This is the free version. Specifically a vide yard, Yep, videyard drift, you know, is a great one too, that I really like. So so I'm going to want to use those two things. And then I'm operating under the assumption that you have a crm that integrates with these tools, so sales force or hub spots or something like that, and that's it. Keep it super simple. Right there, that's all you needed for selling to publicly traded companies, I like. Seeking Alpha is a great tool to do that research because you can get transcripts of their quarterly reports and earnings reports and their decks for those reports. I mean there's all kinds of cool stuff that you can get there. But that and then just being really good on Google with different you know, sort of bully and operators and things like that, and ways to run searches, and you're good to go. Do you have a point of view on are you like a Home Office person? Like you have a point of view on the best headset, the best chair? Some people have points of view on those things. I mean Jabra is probably...

...got the best headsets. I don't. I just use my ear pods, honestly, fare so yeah, you know, I'm to be fair. You know, see, I'm I'm not sitting Monday through Friday at my desk making calls all day, you know. So if I was doing that, it might have a more comfortable headset or something like that that with a longer battery life, better quality of that kind of thing. But yeah, I am really big on investing into things that you spend a lot of time on. So your chair, definitely you spend two or three hundred bucks and get a decent chair. If you got more money to spend that, absolutely do it. But get a good chair, have a good organomics set up with your desk, something that can be standing or sitting, you know, get a second monitor, all of those kind of things. Like your workspace needs to be really comfortable for you to get work done fair enough something. I've never, never been good at that and are never done it. I'm still I work off of a West down little white desk and a tiny little chair that I think is for dining room tables and not for orgonomic anything. So I'm an idiot. Jason Lads, part of the show. We want to pay it for. I just did it. I just did that thing, that terrible thing, the narcissistic thing, where I made it about man what we want to pay it forward. Who are the people that have influenced you? What are the books you mentioned? Any Duke? You mentioned thinking in bets. What are some other important ideas or people or concepts that you think we should be aware of? Yeah, I really like reading books that are not sales books to learn about sales. Michael Port he wrote a book called a book yourself solid, which I don't recommend you read necessarily unless you're a business owner. But the quote from that book he said something along the lines of business problems are really personal problems in disguise. One hundred percent I believe that the stuff that you find yourself struggling with, so dealing with rejection in your sales life, you probably don't like getting feedback in your personal life. There's probably a connection between those two things. So I like reading stuff that's not sales. Warranted couple book recommendations you're not listening by Katie Murphy. That was assigned homework for my wife, so I I recommend you read that. The other person that's had a really big impact on my life is Anthony and Areno. I consider him a mentor and he wrote several books. You eat their eat their lunch. The only sales guy you'll ever need. The last start of closing, I think was the other one, but a lesson that he shared with me. I really believe that confidence is such a key part of your success and there isn't really a lot of stuff that you can do to like magically build your confidence in your there's like a script that you can like look at and just repeat to yourself, and I think everyone's kind of got their own thing. But he told me something. He said, Jason, what makes you uncomfortable in life will hold you back. And my sort of mantra after that is anything that makes me uncomfortable in my personal or professional life...

...is a sign that I really need to lean in and explore that thing and get it to where it's not uncomfortable for me anymore. And a lot of what I've been spending time on right now one of my one word themes. I have three of them for two thousand and twenty two. One of them is candor, so really exploring this idea of how can I just be way more open and transparent with everyone I engage with in my professional and personal life. So for me that involves having hard conversations with my parents, having hard conversations with my siblings, having hard conversations with my clients and not being afraid to tell them. You know what, I think the way you have this setup is not is doing you a disservice. You're missing out on opportunities because your sales managers aren't coaching your reps on a daily basis and I think we have a problem with this particular person, you know, getting really specific like that and not being being afraid to tell them that I think whatever they're doing might suck and to invite that same feedback. You know, for me I think that's super important and he has a really had a really big impact on my life with that. And then, if I had to make, you know, one more recommendation, because I listen to podcasts, I think the thirty minutes to President's Club podcast with Nick and Urmand. If you're into sales, that's a really good, you know, kind of tactical podcast to listen to. That I recommend for sales people. So I think it between those things. Those are kind of the big influences and kind of recommendations off the top of my head that come to mind. I love it and I hope everything's okay with your parents, since it sounds like you're thinking about some direct conversations with them. I understand my parents are visiting in a few minutes. Actually, okay, I don't know if I'm a US candor. I might just swallow it and gring to embart. That's just a joke. I love my parents, Jason. If folks want to reach out to you, maybe they want to hire you, maybe they want to pick your brain. What's the best way to reach you? So blissful PROSPECTINGCOM. So you're going to find a couple things there. So one, if you're like hey, this sounds really good. Do you got any more free stuff? Yes, we got plenty of that. There's podcast ask, there's guides on how to do video prospecting, there's reply method framework for emails, of all the stuff that we didn't really get a chance to dig into a lot today. There's a bunch of stuff there. I post content every day on Linkedin, on outbound specifically. And then, if you're a rep and you're looking to invest in yourself, we have a program called outbound squad and essentially their concept here is that, you know, I don't believe that to get into the top five percent of the profession that you need to consume more content. It's that you need to get better at putting that content into action. So it's coaching. There's an application only community in there. We have really good training content and how to do outbound, the same stuff I use with companies like zoom and Medalia. So hit me up there if that's something. And then for companies to if you have a SDR, Tam beat our team. I'm working mostly with eighty teams these days and mixed, you know, kind of teams coming in with as and SDRs. But if you're looking for them to prospect more like what we talked about today, we have programs for that too. So plist full prospect incom is going to be the best place to hit me up.

Sounds Great. Jason, thanks so much for being on the show. We're going to talk to you on Friday for Friday fundamentals. Awesome. This is great. Thank you SAM. Thank you, hey everybody. Sam Jacobs, SAM's corner. Great conversation with Jason Bay. I really think the things that he's teaching or things the world needs to needs to learn and to understand, which is that this blunt, Instru meant, brute force approach to getting people's attention is not working and you need to be thoughtful and you need to take the time to segment and you need to identify triggers and understand the people that you're selling to and make it about them, not you. I think that's true of so much in the world, that you got to make it about other people. It's not about you, it's not about what your product can do, it's about what their problems are, what their challenges are. And then, I think you know the lat he has this framework. He calls it identify, engage, create. The last piece of it is teach. Don't take right you're not trying to close, you're not trying to sell. What you're trying to do is get a meeting and the way that you're going to get that meeting is by teaching them something and making it interesting. So I thought it was a great conversation. Reminder to thank our sponsors. We have three sponsors for the show. The first is outreach. The first and only engagement and intelligence platform built by revenue innovators. The second is pavilion. Help US plant FIFTYZERO trains. Sign up using a friend's REFRA link and we'll plant two hundred and fifty trees every single time. And vid yard the best way to sell in a virtual world. Connect with Moraley. It's qualify. More opportunities are close, more deals. Trivid yard for free by signing up at vidyardcom. Forward, slash, free help. Everybody's doing safe, having a happy holidays. I'll talk to you next time.

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