The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode 212 · 6 months ago

The Elements of a Great Sales Manager with Todd Caponi


Todd Caponi, CEO & Founder of Sales Melon and author of The Transparent Sales Manager. Todd is the only guest who has been on two times. Todd joins us live from the This episode would be live from the Chicago Roadshow for Pavillion.

Todd is a great consultant, teacher, and trainer of sales. In part one of this episode, Todd is going to talk about some of the key elements that make up a great sales manager.

What You’ll Learn

  1. How to be ready for your opportunity when it comes to you
  2. Trends in sales tend to be cyclical in nature
  3. Six things to help your team progress and grow

One, two, one, three, everybody at Sam Jacobs. Welcome to the sales soccer podcast. Today on the show we've got an excerpt from a live presentation that my friend Todd Capony gave at the Chicago road show for Pavilion, which we did back in May. Todd's got a new book coming out called the transparent sales manager, based off of some of the ideas that he articulated in his first book, the Transparency Sale. He's a well known and worldwide author, internationally recognized and a great sales consultant, teacher and trainer and illuminary in the Chicago ecosystem, and he's going to talk about some of the key elements that make up a great sales manager. Now this is going to be in two parts and you're gonna listen to the first part and then the second part will be for Friday fundamentals is coming Friday uh, and we're gonna do that a couple more times over the course the next couple of weeks with some of my guests from the elevate road show over the past couple of months. You'll hear from Ryan Dennehy, the CEO of Electric Uh. You might hear from Ethan Butte, chief evangelist for Bom bomb and and also an author. Uh So, a lot of great conversations. And you're also to hear from Kevin Dorsey, K D, who is the dean of Frontline Sales Manager School for Pavilion and also just an incredible speaker and consultant with winning by design. But for now let's listen to the first part of a presentation that Todd Capony gave to an audience of pavilion members talking about the transparent sales manager, his new book. This episode of the Sales Hacker podcast is brought to you by outreach. outreaches the first and only engagement and intelligence platform built by revenue innovators for revenue innovators. Outreach allows you to commit to accurate sales forecasting, replace manual process with real time guidance and unlock actionable customer intelligence that guides you and your team to win. More often, traditional tools don't work in a hybrid sales world. Find out why outreaches the right solution at Click, dot outreach, dot Io, forward slash thirty MPC. That is click, dot outreach, dot io forward slash thirty MPC. This episode of the Sales Hacker podcast is SPA answered by pavilion. Pavilion is the key to getting more out...

...of your career. Our private membership connects you with a network of thousands of like minded peers and resources where you can tap into dozens of classes and training through Pavilion University. Make sure you take advantage of the pavilion for teams corporate membership and enroll your entire go to market team in one of our industry leading schools and courses, including marketing school, Sales School, Sales Development School and Revenue Operations School. Unlock your professional potential and your team's professional potential with a pavilion membership. GETS STARTED TODAY AT JOIN PAVILION DOT Com. Once again, that's joined PAVILION DOT COM. This episode of the sales soccer podcast is brought to you by verissant. High Performing Revenue Organizations have a plan for growth. Get Yours with verison. SET SMARTER goals and design territories to maximize your revenue potential. Create incentives that motivate the behaviors needed to achieve your goals. Use Ai driven insights to make better decisions and outdo previous performance. Learn how verissent can help you create a predictable growth engine at varia. Sent Dot com forward slash sales hacker. Again, that is very sent dot com forward slash sales hacker. He's the first returning guest in the three in the four year history of the podcast and one of the pre eminent Crros in Chicago. Todd Capony, please welcome him to the stage. We need to move these shares, all right, Godd thank you, all right. Thank you. Hello, Um. All right, so I'm so glad that I came a little early. Uh, I'm literally like I wrote this and I'm totally altering it based on the conversations that have already taken place. But I want to get nerdy with everybody. All right. So what we're going to talk about is really breaking down the science of Intrinsic Inspiration. So I want to give you a framework or a way to think about with your teams, the six things that contribute to why they show up every day, they do their best, they stay and they become advocates to their friends. All right, and so I guess to start off, Um, oh, left her phone. There you...

...go. So to start off, I just I wanted to start with a little story Um and ask you, kind of like an informal survey. So for me, this was back in two thousand six, h aging like guacamole up here. But Um, I was like before that, kind of like a B Plus B Sales Rep. but I always knew that sales leadership was my jam. Right like I wanted to lead, I wanted to build a team, I wanted to grow a team in the tech space. Um, like a moron. In two thousand three, I bought a sales training company and promptly ran it into the ground. Um, in two thousand six, though, I got hired out to run basically sales ops for a Silicon Bailey startup called right hemisphere. You've never heard of them, because we built it up and sold it to S A P in two thousand ten. But here's just a quick little story about my first promotion. So Day two I fly out to Fremont, California, and it's sales kickoff. So sales kickoff. We like a cheap pope, hell, like a Hilton Garden in and Fremont we're doing sales kick off. My the VP of sales that hired me to come run ups, was like old school, like you know, we're gonna pound you with commits for like all day and like that's not high enough and like you know that kind of crap. We get done with day one. My CEO is like Hey, do you want to ride to dinner? Like yeah, so I jump in the car with him. He's driving an old school pt cruiser. Like this guy's the CEO and he's driving a purple PT Cruiser from Um we we go and like the first thing he asked me is like, todd, why are you here? And I was like I kind of want to learn from Tom, who's the VP of sales, and like watch a company like this grow. I've been with the big ones, the seps, the computer associates. I want to watch one grow like this and then eventually I want to build and run my own like I want to run a tech sales organization's like cool. Forgot about that conversation. Two years later...

I'm in Germany enabling one of our partners. Um, my Sim card on my phone's not working, so nobody can get a hold of me. It's two in the morning. My solution engineer that's with me is banging on my hotel room door at two in the morning and I'm like, dude, like I just got over jet lag. I finally fall asleep. What do you want? He's like, Michael, the CEO, needs to talk to you right now. He's with the board. Like talk to me, like about what? So I get on the phone with him and he's and he gives me this story. He's like, todd, I got bad news and good news. Bad News is we had to let Tom go, your VP of sales. That brought you here. How are you feeling about that? And I was like, I guess I'm gonna wait until what the good news is. And he says, we think you're ready. Like awesome, right, like I'm not sleeping again tonight. Thanks, but Um, here's the thing. My question for you is, like I didn't get promoted because I had been trained extensively in sales leadership. I had like no structure, no process for sales leadership. It was just because I said that I wanted to and he kind of mentored me through it. For you, and if you lead teams, how many of you have ever gotten formal sales leadership or Revenue Leadership Training? But we got like two and like normally and there's a there's a third like I asked a group in San Diego last week and like there was it was zero, and then the week before that there was one, and he's like Microsoft trained. There's like a huge hole in sales leadership structure. And that's what I faced. That next day. I woke up. I'm suddenly running a tech startup sales organization and like I literally am like a dog chasing a car down the street. Right, like every single morning it was like which direction is it going? What fire do I have to deal with? You know, this rep is not doing well. I got this pipeline issue, I've got a deal that would on the ropes. This person quit. I got a board meeting coming up. Like what do I do? And so I created a structure and I created a process for myself and then I've added in all the nerdy behavioral science into it, with it, and... today what I want to do is share with you the behavioral science. Bless you, share with you the behavioral science of that whole Intrinsic Inspiration because of this, that day one, I had always grown up to believe that this was my team, right, a room full of coin operated machines, right, and like sales reps are coin operated if you're doing it wrong. I believe that there's there's science behind this idea that when variable compensation becomes the reward for doing work we want to do instead of the motivator that wins in good times and in bad and like, it never become more important than when I talk about good times. Here's a chart that I had put together myself, so don't hold me to it, but I was looking at crunch based data around the number of new UNICORNS each year. Right, you've seen have you seen something like this before? This is freaking nuts to me, but you talk about good times, from two thousand eight or two thousand seventeen, two thousand twenty, there was five hundred and sixty nine new UNICORNS valued over a billion dollars. Five and sixty nine, two thousand and twenty was the record at a hundred and sixty seven in one year, and then two thousand twenty one comes around and beats the previous four years combined. And that's the situation that we've been living in coming up to now. Right, this idea that the demand for salespeople is like exponentially higher than the supply, and so you've all been struggling with that. That's part of kind of like the change. Based on the conversations, like that's been the whole gist of the conversations. Today I'll give you my take on what I think has happened and why the great resignation came. And I know you didn't ask, but I'm gonna tell you anyway. Do you remember the days of cable boxes right, like you know, back we used to have a able box in our house and...'s wired in from the ground right. We had like boxes on each one of the TVs and there was dvrs on them. So, like all my kid's favorite shows are on them and there was no way to get that data off right. So, as comcast would raise the price every single year, like a cost of programming has gone up. You're up nine dollars a year, we'd just be like a screw it, like we we got to eat it. So we would constantly eat that punch in the face that comcast would give us every year, because the physical cost was high, right, because the only alternative is you're gonna put a satellite dish on my roof and then wire in through there. And the emotional cost was high. Because my kids would lose all the favorite episodes that have been recorded in the DVR. So we just ate it. Now you fast forward to a couple of years ago when we finally came to the realization that hey, now we could have streaming. Right, we just get a little roku device and then we subscribe to all these different, Um, you know, programs, and now the DVR issue goes away. Who Cares? We get all the episodes instead of my kid's favorite ones, and there's no commercials. Fantastic. So we had signed up for direct TV. Now we went a couple of years with them and then all of a sudden they send us an email saying due to the cost of programming, the price has gone up. Within twenty minutes, we unplugged and plugged into Youtube TV. Now, why and what does that have to do with the great resignation? I think it has everything to do with the great resignation. The world changed, right, where the physical costs to change jobs completely disappeared. Right, your commute stays exactly the same. Maybe Your Marketing Department sends you a new parallelgoed socks, right, and the emotional cost is not there. We can argue all day long, that the virtual happy hours that we did created those connections. But they don't to the point where you're sitting in the trenches with these individuals every single day. So one little...

...blip in your engagement with your employer and you're gone. Right. That's what we saw happen. That's what, at least I saw happen. I've seen lots of explanations for it. But Hey, quotas went up, like we're gonna treat this just like we did before. Quotas are going up. We gotta grow reps like unplugged territories got smaller. I just lost a deal. My pipeline doesn't look so good. Oh I just went to a party and one of my buddies is freaking killing it and their company is hiring unplugged, plug in right. So the physical cost non existent, the emotional cost non existence. So the triggers to change are almost infinite, and so we have to change that. Right. That was the good times. Let's talk about the hard times and what we've been talking about today. So let's go back to this chart. Um, one of the things I was just telling Sam he didn't know about me. I don't know if any of you know, but I'm a nerd for the history of sales. Like I don't know if any of those people exist, but like I've got a collection of books from the early are the late eight hundreds, early nineteen hundreds on sales right like that, when cool people are doing cool things, I'm reading that crap on like a Friday night. Anyway, here's one thing that I found really, really interesting. In nine there was something I like to call the great salesperson purge. Here's what happened in that year. There was salesperson turnover. Now, what's amazing about it, though, is that the ten years leading up to it, and that's involuntary. That's not voluntary. That's involuntary turnover. The ten years leading up to it look exactly like the last ten years right now, almost to the creepy, like totally creepy. Now, I'm not here ringing the here, Ye, hear, Ye, the end is near bell by any means. But here's the the piece that I found really crazy. There was a lead up of slow and steady growth and then there was...

...a economic disruption that took place in nineteen eighteen. That was US going into World War One. Right Two thousand twenty was covid doesn't last long. COVID didn't really affect the economy for long. It was a short period of real bad hiccup and then we came out of it with massive growth, like crazy. That kind of growth. That's what happened in Nineteen Nineteen and nineteen twenty. All of a sudden, turnover in nineteen nineteen and nineteen twenty is, and that's voluntary turnover, more jobs than there are Reps. so reps were literally chasing money. And then all of a sudden, what happened? Huge inflation spike beginning of late nineteen twenty, early nineteen twenty one. We had record inflation and then the bottom dropped out like crazy levels. Seventy seven percent turnover in nineteent turnover in nineteen twenty two, and that was involuntary. Sales teams, sales leaders were purging their entire sales forces. It was crazy. It's great to see everybody getting ahead of that right because I don't think that needs to happen now and there's a lot more controls. But what is important is our ability to make sure that our teams, the ones that win, are the teams that stay engaged right and that will run through a brick wall for you and your company. So I want to take you through those six pieces. I'M gonna I'm gonna kind of whip through these, but hopefully you can write them down as a framework for yourself to think about. Hey, you know what, if I build, maintain and grow each of these six things, my team is going to stick around and they're going to overperform. And if I don't, that's trouble everybody. Sam Jacobs. Really like that conversation with Todd Uh and the presentation, and we've got part two coming up this coming Friday. Todd is just really brilliant and really, you know, intuitive in terms of it comes to leading and managing, and so I'm really...

...excited for the second part of his presentation, which you hear this coming Friday, and I hope you enjoyed this first part. And just a reminder. You know, Pavilion's got a number of amazing courses coming up specifically designed for the recession, specifically designed for an economic downturn, all of them included in a pavilion for teams corporate membership which includes your entire sales organization, your entire Marketing Organization. So if you're worried, if you're nervous that your sellers are not empowered, the right messaging, the right and mentality, the right approach to help your company grow through the coming economic volatility, I really encourage you to take a look at pavilion. Of course I am biased, I am the CEO of the company. Regardless, on Friday, this coming Friday, you'll hear part two of my conversation with Todd Capony. And before we go, let's thank our sponsors and we'll talk to you next time. This episode of the Sales Hacker podcast had three amazing sponsors. The first is outreach. Outreach the first and only engagement and intelligence platform built by revenue innovators for revenue innovators. Go to click dot outreach, dot Io, forward slash thirty NPC were also brought to you by pavilion, the key to getting more out of your career and role in sales school, Sales Development School and Marketing School, and our upcoming recession education pack including selling through an economic downturn, marketing through an economic downturn and leadership through an economic downturn. LEARN MORE AT JOINT PAVILION DOT COM and, of course verisin. High Performing Revenue Organizations have a game plan for growth. Learn how verisent can help you create a predictable growth engine at verison dot com. Ford Slash Sales Hacker.

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