The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 7 months ago

157: Bootstrapping, Building & Scaling Startups w/ Lloyed Lobo

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Overview:

This week on the Sales Hacker podcast, we speak with Lloyed Lobo, Cofounder at Boast.AI.

Boast.AI automates access to billions in R&D tax credits and innovation incentives so companies can fuel their growth while preserving equity and avoiding red tape. Lloyed also co-chairs Traction, a community that brings leaders from the fastest growing companies together to share insights into building and scaling startups via weekly webinars, regular meetups, and an annual conference.

We hear about Lloyd’s extensive entrepreneurial background and the powerful lessons he has learned along the way.

What You’ll Learn

  1. How Boast.AI simplifies the R&D tax credits process
  2. The relationship between pioneer mentality and risk tolerance
  3. Different phases to the evolution of Boast.ai
  4. Raising money at the right time for the right reasons
  5. Learning and openness enable growth

Show Agenda and Timestamps

  1. Show Introduction [00:00]
  2. Boast.ai and Lloyed’s entrepreneurial background [2:26]
  3. Pioneer mentality and risk tolerance [6:27]
  4. Phases in the evolution of Boast.AI [10:53]
  5. Raising money at the right time for the right reasons [19:58]
  6. Learning and openness enable growth [24:50]
  7. Sam’s Corner [28:42]  

Everybody, it's Sam Jacobs and beforejumping in to what you're about to listen to I'd, be remissed not to tellyou about unly, two thousand and twenty one on May. Eleven through thirteenthwere focusing on how to win all together in the new sales era. You'lllearn new, go to market strategies, get deeper, funnel insights and actionabletakeaways for your entire organization, from revenue, leaders at high growstartups and fortune. Five hundred companies and our very special guestsare none other than Guy Ras podcaster and author of how I built this andcarry laurence. The first female fiher pilot in the US Navy come save yourseat for this high energy online event at Unlis, dot out reach datio one twoone thre, three: everybody, its Sam Jacobs, welcome tothe sale sacker podcast today on the show we've got Lloyd, lobow Lloyd isthe COFOUNDERAND president of Bos. Ot Ai, which automates access to billionsin Arnde tax credits and innovation. andcentives of companies can fuel theirgrowth while preserving equity and avoiding ou tape. Armed with a hundredan twenty three million dollars in funding Bost desogn a mission to helpinnovative companies become successful, Lloyd, also, coach Eurs traction acommunity of over ninety thousand founders in tech professionals,cofounded by boast that brings leaders from the fastest growing companies likeChapafi, Tulio, slack linked in github cloud flare and many more to sharelearnings and building growing and scalling startups by weekly, Lebanars,regular meetups and an annual conference. Lloyd. Welcome to the show!Thank you for having me Sam, I'm honored, it big big, being a longstanding fan of salesacker. Well, we are we well, I love. I love it when my fansare GOI Gess on the show, so welcome to it. We like to start with your baseballcardlight. So and really what this is is an opportunity. I just sort ofdescribed thet. You know the boiler plate for Bost, but first your names,layd Lobo, but you don't. You spell your first name slightly differently. Ofolks want to start googling you. How do you spell it? It's Doubl Llyed, myparents ere trying to be different.

They thought maybe somedaylilltrademark, my name, and so they threw any in there. It's been more m more inembarrassment than a trademarkable name. Well, it's very distinctive. We knowthat you're, the cofounder and president of boast DOT AI. This is areally interesting category, so give us an overview. What dis boast do and talka little bit about the space that you're operating in definitely soglobally. Over two hundred billion is given in research and development, taxpedits by governments to fund businesses, and these taxweaders havebeen in the tax law since the s. If you look at US and Canada, North Americaalone, it's over twenty five billion in research and development, tax credits,and if you look at the whole business tax, weatet space bit's several hundredbillion between us and Canada, the problem is it's a cumbersome process.You got to wait for the end of your tax here to apply most accountants. Don'teven know these taps where its exist, because they just want to file yourtaxes and get on with it, and so when you need to apply for it becomescombersome, because you need to look back on the year and identify all theprojects and the work you get that meets this narrow criteria for thesetaxt predits and then you got ta file off put together all the documentationand paperwork. So one ISS combersome to apply to it's prome, to frustratingaudits, because when the IRS or the Canadian government audit to you, theydrag you to the mud. Because they're like show me documentation that this.This work you're claiming for these tich sweaters they're, not vapor, wearand the last thing is. It takes a long time to get the money it takes sixteenmonths to get the money you incur a year of expenses, fill it with yourtaxes and as ghost to government processing time, and our mission is todemocratize access to these tax credits, to help people get more money fasterfor less time and risk we integrate with the company's technical stock andfinancial stack, the streamline automate the process it makes the auditprocess also streamline, and because we have this ability to do this real timeWer, we tell companies that don't wait for government processing times useboast and get your money now as you go along through the ear. So Casalimprovement play as well. That's...

...amazing! How old is the company? Whendid you start it? So we started the company many moons ago in late Otwosanda leven early two tousand, an twelve is when we started the company,but we started as a consulting for my co founder, who I studied engineeringwith he did a software startup that failed felt he needed to studyaccounting and ended up at a big four accounting firm in the Arny tax group,and he said this process is manual and he's my best friend. So I jumped up theopportunity to work with him. I said you know if we can build a company thatwe want to work for, let's do it, and so we started both capital as aconsulting firm, doing already tax consulting. While we also worked on twoother startups. Like we work on a few other projects, we WI worked in aproduct called automatically, which was a chat, Bot, bilt onszand as and then Iwent off and did speak easy as well sort of rifte on a few projects andthen after speekeas he failed ind, a two thousand and sixteen took twomonths break, and then we we branded both from both capital to boast aisoftware vision and then grew from, like whatever subone million revenue.Back then to over eight figures in three years. That's amazing and whal.It speak easy. Do that's it's a good name for a startup, I'm sorry! I didn'twork out but interested I yeah. So S, bessomer venturers came up with theidea of speakeasy and incubated a team, and I had the opportunity to work withByron deeder out of the best simmer office there. I was brought in to runmy growth and then product and what speakings he was intelligent. Callingtol for salespeople, I was like Gong, meets duly darii right, and this wasback in two thousand and fifteen. I was totally bullish on the ideas funded bysaleswors, bessover and Twilio, and the premise there was sales people. Theydon't update the CRM, because you know your crm up. Activities are not salesactivities, they're, not selling activities. There are sellingactivities and there are nonselling activities. Selling activities are liketalking to the client trying to close the deal nonselling activities all thisgrunt work. So what we said was what,...

...if we bring the grunt work into theselling activity- and we do it so before the call it would automaticallyprepare the rep for the call during the call it would pose a live sort ofplaybook for the call like you're in a discovery call youare on a demo. Itwould, it would share a live playbook, so it could help you sell better andafter the Calli would automatically update your crm and generate an exceoaction items so that Wal speak easy help. You close more deals faster wowand I guess just because you're articulating you know a richentrepreneur background, but also one where you've been working on this for along time. What's your background, you know where'did you grow up, and how didyou get the bug to start businesses and to work on businesses and to be such adynamic entrepreneur, yeah? So definitely I was born and raised inKuwait. My parents are from India, they were working there. I was a refugee ofthe Gulf War. Almost accidentally blew up the refugee camp and Jordan, Itravelled was a refuge in the Gulf War in the s and then after a while made my way to Canada,studied engineering and then M my girlfriend at the time now my wife shegot into med school in the US and she got in to med school and second year ofUndergrad super sharp. So I just chased her and moved to the US after Ifinished engineering, and so my first job was in product in in New Jersey,and then I worked in in sales and marketing when she got a residency inPhilly. I work at another startup in sales and marketing, and then afterthat Alex my cofounder, see you and boast. He called me and he's like hey.We should start a company, I don't know what, but we have. A few ideas willstart this one in the tast wod it space and we rift on a few things together.But it's just that man, it sai the drive to build somethingright. Like I'm an engineer, I studied engineering and I'm a creator, there'sdifferent kinds of fe ther people who like to do new things, and there arepeople who like to take those things when they ar a certain point and takeit to the next level, I'm the kind of guy who likes to just do new things. Soeverything I'd boast. It's been a lot of fun for me because I always end updoing new things. One was getting Tho...

...product market fit launching our firstsales, then handing it over then like launching a new market launching a newproduct that sort of thing everything new is fun. For me, I like to like sortof consider myself like a pioneer mentality person. I like to get it fromlike to a point where it's product market fit and then hand ed off tosomebody to Gill. Do you feel, like your risk threshold, O your risk?Tolerance is informed by your upbringing by your childhood by movingaround by coming from you know, being being an immigrant into Canada in theUS or wher. Where do you attribute, because there's just so many peoplethat would like to describe themselves as being a pioneer, they want to thinkthat they take risks, but they never canseem to take that first step to leapinto the void. Where do you attribute that that instinct inside of you fromdefinitely so here's an interesting thing there I come from a backgroundwhich is a risk of verse. Traditionally right, people from India, Middle East,her risk coverse, it's you have a path which is you go to university, become adoctor engineer or some profession that pays you repeatedly for years to come,and that's that was my my wife's topbringing to is like you go to medschool or else, and so my mom said the same thing. I wanted to be a chef, mydaser executive, chef, retired now and my mom said we're not paying for chefschool shs she's like better go, get a profession, be an engineer or Daltorkind of thing: Rhich. It was very risk, overse mentality, the problem, Wof Saa.I think it's just in my Indna here right. I was always doing crazy thingsgrowing up, so my I just felt like you learn more fromexperiences than from books, and it's and the second philosophy was life andin business is a marathon. It's not a it's, not a sprint writ, and so for meit doesn't matter. If it's the journey and ISS it's not the journey. It's notthe destination is the companions that matter the most. So I didn't reallyfinish high school. What ended up happening was, I skipped my high schoolexams. I didn't have a high school...

...diploma and my mom was like you bettergo to engineering, so I applied for engineering school and I where was this.Where was this geographically? This was in Canada right, close to Minnesota and Fetera Bay, andthey said we need to see your transcripts and, I said, there'spolitical undrest going on in Kuwait, so I don't have any transcripts hereand they followed up for one semester and then they never did, and Igraduated with engineering without a high school diploma. But all my life,I've been I've been more drawn towards creating new things, and I just notinterested in looking at things the way they're done and trying to scale them.allright like Ik, there's always something bugs me. There has to be abetter way and after doing a few stints in product and growth, I decided to goout on my own and do this with Alex and it's been, it's been a fun ride, sotalk about in some sense, I guess you moved from consulting to software. Tellme if I got the dates wrong as I was listening, but I think in two thousandand sixteen, but you mentioned, is at wo Thousandand Leven, theanty, twelve,that you've been working on some form of boast. Is that right, that's correct!That's a long time! Yeah, it is a long time and and what do you so talk aboutthe different phases of evolution, because I know one of the things you'repassionate about is how do you make sure that you have product market fitbefore you try to grow more and and how do you know and what are the mistakesyou make when you think you have product marketfit, but maybe you don'tyeah? Definitely so one of the key things is while I did Bost, I also didautomatically, which was intercalm before people. Like I didn't know inher com existed, this was two thousand and thirteen forteen Alex came up withthe idea and said: Hey sales, but customer service agents are inundated.Let's build an let's build a Bot and we ran some touring tests on twitter basedon Chet Blues Interactions and we said wow we can respond. Ninety percent likereal human, and so we build this. This product call automatically and so iwasdoing bulls. Doing this trying to see like which one which one hits the thingis we didn't want to raise money, otherwise we would have probably builtsoftwer and day onted boast. Just I'd...

...been a part of a few bad experienceswhere, although I was not a founder, I was on the exact team and the companiesthat had raised money. Didn' didn't make money, the founders didn't makemoney, an exit is not always a a mean definition of success, because if thefounders in exacts don't make money and only the investors make money, thenit's not considered or success didn't want to raise money, and so we did thisproduct automatically, then that film- and then we were running out of wedidn't- have the money to feed both founders at boast as a consultingoperation. So I did speak easy there doing that founding team there. I thinkone of the key learnings along the evolution is this: customers want andoutcome. They want, don't want a product, they don't want to service,they don't want your Fancyai or dashborts. Customers won an outcome,deliver them that outcome by any measons possible early on. Then you canautomate the rest of the stuff if you have customers that are paying you Oney,and that was that was a big key learning so to cagive you one exampleout of automatically what end up happening was we did all our customerdevelopment early outf reach when we saw when we saw that it was a good idea,we could. We could automate responses to jet blue at like ninety percent, Istarted calling all the big CPG companies cas of customer service and,as I talkd to them, I realized hey. If they had a magic on, they would want asolution like automatically because hit would plug into their customer serviceplatform and automatically respond intelligent, eroreal human. Then wesaid okay, let's go about now. Building this that scale and we had asked all ofthem. What customer service tools they were using and most of them were usinga oracle sales force, and when we contacted Oracle sales fore theye likehey, we got this huge approval process is going to take you like a year to gothrough security review and build all of this stuff, so I've had. This is thedepth of a startup, so I ran to Zendesk's conference cornered their APIguy and he's like yeah. You can drop when APP in our marketplace tomorrowand because it was named with an a and the the value proprwas. So seeme simple,intelligently, respond to like a real...

...human, automatically rigdt orautomatically respond like a real humans. Weu Get thousands of peoplesigning up from Zendesk thousands and thousands of people signing up, and onething was a consistent theme. It was a it was a widget in the right side barwhen a quarry comes in it, pops up and automatically response. Everyone waslike: Stop Stop The automated responses, your responding with Gibrish, and so wemade it editor approve, and then the feedback was basically he. It's notlike. Ninety percent accurart is like forty percent accurate, and that was akey realization and and also a similar mistake. We made it speak, easy andI'll tell you thatient to it in a second, but all my customer developmentwe did for automatically was in large enerfize customers when we couldn't getinto sales, FORCS or oracles market. You know integrate with them. We ran toZendesk and we didn't even think or realize that zendas customers were likesup thirty person, companies back in t thirteen fourteen. They didn't haveenough data for you to create an intelligent response, so customers wonean outcome. If I know knew then what I knew today now today, I would havebuilt the application such that we're just gone to everyone and said what arethe most common. Like fifty most common questions, you get ask and create adecision toree and built a Bot like that which is very popular right now,and you know through Intercom and whatnot, but we have the opportunity todo that, so we got dejected back then ir like now. How are we going to figurethis out and, as engineers are all so arrogant, you're like o a? I should dothis. Your customer does not care about your ai or your product. They careabout an outcome, deliver them that outcome very quickly, and so we stoppthat project and we ou know I joined speak eas and speakes. When we launched,we had fifteen thousand users, okay, think about it. This way, back in twothousand and fifteen, you got fifteen tousand users at launch and everyone'sgoing crazy, or this is going Ta, get like slack like aasa running a bunch offacebook adds mobile ads, and then you realize you'r like no. This thing isgoing to fail, because when you looked at the profiling of the users, therewere butchers, bakers and...

...candlestickmakers, O all kinds ofpeople. Bernie Sandews was using the sales calling out to run electioncampaigns and there were pastors using it to do run. Prayer meetings and I said we gotta shut down free, like each free user, is costing as like in cauge like thirtydollars, because we were built on top of Tilio yeah. We have lots and lots ofpeople signing up every day because we're running lots of mobile ads, butthe bottom line is this: There's no ideal customer profile, we funded mySalle forse, who are sales, calling up what is going on right? Wo got to shutdown free, but the mindset around the exact team was hey. You know we can getslack like adoption, it's going to not enable us to raise money if we shutdown free, no one's going to pay for it fordard for it. Finally, we shut downfreemate it paid who stuck around three hundred sales people and we built the product for thesalespeople, and everyone is looking to get a job done right as a salespersonas a market of whaver as a consumer of services and tools, you're looking toget a job don and if you don't have an ideal customer profile, it's very hardto figure out what jobs you're trying to help people through right, and so wefocuse on the salespeople whyin shut down was by the time we did that wholeRigam oral. We ran our money, not enough traction to get to the nextround of funding, so the key realization, both from automaticallyand speakes Ese focus on one kind of customer like we know very, very N,like narrow down to a point of whois the title: What geography, what industry and whatnot right, Iguess a salesperson at CPG- is very different than a salesperson at a assasstartup right so having that nail down, because then you can dominate thesphere around them like where they eat greed, drink sleep. What are ther toolsthey buy, so you can partner with those chools what events they frequent. Soyou can go there, what books, magazines flogs they read! You can dominate thispear around them. So a lot of those...

...learnings we use TAT bost because itboasts were like our mission- is to help innovativecompanies become successful, were founders field vounters we sell tofounders and COS F fast crowing technology companies and because ofthat, we're like okay as a fast coing technology company. Yes, you need nonthe lood of capital, rnde credits, but what else do you need? You need sales?You Need Marketing, you need scaling, hiring Youd need all this othervaluable information, and so we started atraction as a community intraction.This turn into now a hundred thousand subscriber nonprofitentity, where webring leaders from various facets of business, to share advice for free andthat community alone has not only led to a significant portion of our growth.metter investors through there met a lot of our key customers through theirmet folks, like Max Cofounder O for founder of sales ackr through therJason Lumkan. Through there we launched when we launched BOT AI as a when we'vepivoeed from consulting to software in two thousand and seventeen we launchedat saster in two thousand and seventeen because of the community we builtthrough traction, Jason Lemkin gave us a free booth. So all of that right- andI had the other fundamental belief or a thing that I learned through thatprocess was one- is tha, focus focus on your customer and let that be yourprimary guide. All your decisions should flow through that. If you don'thave your ideal customer profile, it's very hard to build a business like onekind of customer getting one kind of value coming through one one kind ofchannel, at least when you're starting out thits very important. The secondthing is a value of community. I've come to learn that your product orservice will not become a commodity. If you build a community, if you fall inlove with your customer and help them succeed beyond your product or serviceyou'll build a lifelong relationship with them, so those two things havebeen a very huge guiding principal for us at boast and boot trapping to overit figures in revenue and then raising money. When we didn't need the money,why did you raise money? We always felt...

...that if you can turn one into three orfour or five, you should take the money. I think the timing was right. Themarket was heating up with the pandemic. Everyone needed foney and we had got toeight figures in revenue with four salespeople: no marketer in one bigcommunity, a small DEF team, mostly Customer Success Center operation, soyou're like now is the time I mean globally. If you look at Ardy, creditsalone is two hundred billion. If you look at all business taskrord it's overa tillion dollars and it's a painful laborious process and we said hey: Ifyou raise money, we can turn one into like three five, maybe ten we need to.We need to do this. If, whether you know are we going to build a sort of small operation that yeah, youknow eventually, you'll start stagnating right? If you don't havemoney, you won't innovate because you got to feed yourself also, so we saidif we take, money will be relaxed and we can grow the business when I say,relax, meaning personally. You know that now, there's one stress off yourhead, meaning putting food on the table. So now you can invest in the companyand growit and as a boocher as boodsthat founders. We did a lot ofgreat things to build a profitable business to eight figures, and so nowit's like, let's Poot, fuel and blow this thing up. So that's why we raise.I fundamentally believe that we can build a multipilinouer company here. Ithink it's interesting what you just said: Some investors, because I think fundamentally, whatyou're referring to is perhaps taking some of the money that you raised andselling secondary, or you know taking some of the proceeds from the fund raysand putting that and creating financial security for yourself and yourcofounder, which I think is a wonderful thing. There are some founders that aresome investors that worry that you know, if you take too much of that and put itinto your personal bank, account that you will be less incentivized, but myperspective is that you'll probably be more incentivized, because you view thebusiness less personally, and so you can make longer term more strategicdecisions without worrying that you're...

...jeopardizing your nest. Egg. What'syour: What's your thought, you know: If founders today tell you that they'renot taking even a small portion of the table like at a post, a stage they'relying okay, I fundamentally believe they're lying because I've talked todozens of dozens of investors and there are so many people who reached out to usand right now the VC pitch to founders in the Posta world is just that hey andwill let you take money off the table, so you can darisk yourself a little bitright. So I don't know Ho, I think, taking a lot of money off thetable. You May as well sell the company. Why do that right? So I think I thinkthe theme here is unitty as founders, especially when your boot trap, you've,starved and not eaten and you've taken jobs on the side and whatnot to run thebusiness you've not taken the market rate. If you can pay yourself and havea comfortable life personally, then you'rl do well professionally, ifyou're miserable at home, because your wife' snagging at y Ou, because you'renot bringing money at home and then you're also working obscene amount ofhours. You're, not spending time with the family. You're stressed out right,like your mental health, translate into physical health and VICEA versa. Rightis, if you want to kickass at work, you got to be able to kick US personally.If you don't you' going to burn out, and I had a near death experience withcovid also so last year pandemic hit and we all double down on working enthe race takes a lot out of you, and I told my wife and kids will celebratewhen the when the A roamd comes together. We close twenty three millionbucks announce at December tent and then I got covid and I'd make nothingout of it and then Jen. Second, I'm in the hospital on oxygen and IV supportand pretty much get taken out for most of January, and I only thought tomyself one thing like wake up and smell the roses: stop and smell the roses doa little better every day. If I would...

...have gone then in January and Al Lot ofpeople who ere in that position passed right,I got covid pneumonia. I just regretted one thing I wish I could go back intime and spend more time with my family and kids, my wife being a doctorcouldn't visit me in the hospital we had a twenty four hour zoomon. I had like two nights where I forcedmyself to stay up. Thinking I'm going to die. What good are you to yourbusiness or anyone? If, like you, don't take care of yourself professionallyright, then you're miserable at work? You take it out on the people at work.It's just it's not a good dynamic right, so I think I think it's for the biggestoutcomes. If you see across the board, look at all the public companies, mostof the biggest outcomes are founder, lead and founders can have goodoutcomes if they're not personally taken care of agree, and I'm so sorry that you had togo through that, and I'm glad that you pulled through you know, there's alight at the end of the tunnel of the story. So I'm glad it worked out Lloyd,we're almost at the end of our time together, and what we like to do inthis very last section is sort of pay it forward and hearabout people ideas,content that have deeply influenced you could be books. You've read could bepeople that you've interacted with that have been mentors or inspired you whenI frame it like that, what comes to mind for you definitely so one thingI'll share. I think learning is one of the most important things in life andthe second thing is being open right. I think openness is this single, mostindispensable ennabler of growth and so a lot of people. You know they try to.Even if you look at companies like hiring, has turned into this sort ofgatekeeping ign, I want to add cultural fit and you got o always think aboutlike adding people to your culture, and so I've always been this lifelonglearner. The issue is, I hate reading and I don't know who will empathizewith me in the audience here, but everyone talks about books and booksand read hundred books and I feel miserable every time. I hear thatbecause I hate reading man, I'm just yeah every time I hear that from peoplelike recommendations, how to be...

...successful, but I came up with a hackfor it good o and my hack is every week I interview two smart people that Irespect a lot for an hour like this and I pull, and I then I edit the videomyself and postit on our Youtube Channel, and I learn a lot just byasking questions like this to people, and I think that's been a great hat forme for the last few years in terms of learning. So I learned by interactingwith people- and I learned by doing ITD- I learned by asking a lot of questionsin terms of specific people who come to mind. Jason Lincoln have learned a tonjust from speaking to him listening to him reading his stuff, because it'sjust short, like block post they're very to the point, and I feel like he'slike a sort of founders angel in a way because every time I'm going through aproblem, I feel like his post just POPs up in my linked in feed Soso great stuff, there Jeff Losson atolio phenomenal. He wrote this great book recently ask your developer, whichis good. Although I don't read much, I interviewed him and also did read hisbook so that POPs into mine, I think just a lot of people are shy. They feellike if they ask people for help or advice, they're troubling them. I seeimmense value in coldemailing people. We built this huge network just fromcoldymailing the first traction conference. We did. I called him outall the speakers and then use the social proof of those who areinterested to follow up with the ones that are not, and then one shoe dropsand the rest follows right, and so it's the power of asking that give and alsoask for help when you need. I think that's that's really important. So ifanyone messages me, I respond to a lot of almost all my emails. I don't havean ea or anything like that. People message me on link and I respond. I Mitake time if the volume is high, but I do respond and I try to be thoughtfulin the answers I provide well. I love that and that's a natural segue. Whatis the contact in fron? What is your content information if people want toreach out or learn more or maybe become...

...a customer yeah? Definitely it's Lloyd,double Loy Ed at Boast Darai, and you can also look me upon linkedin and I'mthere and on Youtube. If you just Google search traction, cof foll findour youtube channel like today, I interviewed Farhon was the vpofengineering at chopify, and I'm going to addit that video myself, because Ilearned a ton there and I want to Hay. Did I miss anything? It's so for methat for me, that hack is better than than reading a book. Awesome Loydthanks! So much for being on the show we'll talk to you on Friday for Fridayfundamentals. Definitely, everybody Sam's corner greatconversation with loid Lobo, really love it just talking to people thatthink, broadly metaphorically, conceptually that have experience doingthings that have failed and risen, backup and Loyd's. A perfect example.You know he's tried a bunch of other companies. He worked at this companySpeak Eze. He worked at a company called automatically. He talked about.You know: Product led growth is such a popular thing right now, except whenyou're buills on top of Tilio and every time somebody wants to use your freeproduct. Tule is charging you money, but you're, not making any, and so lotalked about his time at a bessimer back company Salls Force Back Companycalled speak easy that really formed a lot of his ideas about how to make surethat you're focused that you're focused when you're building your company, andso you know he talked about how speakeashe was not focused enough. Theyhad all different kinds of people using the free product they shut it down andfocus just on building a solution for sales people, and that focus is reallyCoro. What they're trying to do with Bost at Ai, and I just thought thatidea is a really interesting idea. You know also the selfawareness you know.Sloyd brings a lot of selfwareness to the conversation talking about how somepeople are pioneers and some people are settlers. There are benefits anddisadvantages to each. I don't want you out there to think that you knowsettlers is necessarily a prajoritive because, frankly, pioneers are thepeople that die much more frequently. They get all kinds of terriblediseaseson their way to California and...

...to to the West from from the east. Ifyou had to go through Panama- and you didn't have enough money, then you arehiking through the jungles, sometimes getting malaria. Otherwise, you had tosail around h the southern tip of South America, which was terrible. There wasno transcoutint on a railroad, so you know being a plioneer is and all it'scracked up to be thinkig about the first people that are going to go toMars. Those people are going to have a terrible quality of life and they'reprobably going to get radiation poisoning on the way. So, yes, one dayMars, will be a beautiful place to live with. You know an atmosphere that we created throughsome kind of shaken, Bak colony, as they say in the movie aliens. But untilthen it's going to be a terrible place to live so being a pioneer, isn'talways the best. You take on more risk and you risk more as a consequence, butwhen it pays off, it pays off. Big and Loyd is the shining example of somebodythat helped build a bootsdrap company and then took money when it was theright time to take money and accelerate in to growth. So I really love thatconversation now before we go thanks again to our sponsor outreach. Outrachis the number one sales engagement platform and you can learn all aboutthem at out reached audio a couple other things if you haven't signed upfron least think about it. May Eleven through thirteent we're focusing on howto win altogether in a new sales, araout very special guests, includingGuy Ras, and carry lorens good unly, stat outreache Satiyo for moreinformation. If you want to retect t me Ou cen, Sam at Revenuet, collectivethat comes my email address or Linconcom Fort Lass, the word in forFlash Sam of Jacobs, okay, really good talking to everybody today and I'lltalk to you next time, God bless you.

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