The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 11 months ago

164. Sales Lessons From a Former Jehovah's Witness w/ Kyle Racki


In this episode of the Sales Hacker podcast, we welcome Kyle Racki, the co-founder and CEO of Proposify. This company gives sales leaders visibility and consistency in their closing. Proposify helps more than 10,000 sales teams around the world eliminate the frustration caused by the proposal process. They also recently sponsored the Sales Hacker Podcast.

What You’ll Learn

  1. Entrepreneurship isn't in your genes
  2. Why it's hard to push back against your group
  3. The journey from freelancer to founder
  4. How to create and maintain a competitive advantage
  5. Solving the innovator's dilemma
  6. The framework for leading a startup to success

Show Agenda and Timestamps

  1. Entrepreneurship isn't in your genes [5:59]
  2. Why it's hard to push back against your group [7:15]
  3. The journey from freelancer to founder [10:43]
  4. How to create and maintain a competitive advantage [15:32]
  5. Solving the innovator's dilemma [18:31]
  6. The framework for leading a startup to success [20:45]
  7. Sam’s Corner [26:56]

One, two, one, three, three, hey everybody, it's Sam Jacobs. Welcome to the salesacker podcast. We're incredibly excited to have you and this week we've got on the show Kyle racky. He's the cofounder and CEO of a really cool company called propose a FI. They were recently sponsors of the salesacker podcast and he's just a really interesting person. He grew up as a Jehovah's Witness and then split off from that group and is now, as he says, an apostate. I guess that's what they call people that leave Jehovah's Witnesses. And he's also a great software founder. Are Building a business from from Nova Scotia. So really good conversation. Before we get there, we want to thank our sponsors. Our first is outreach. Outreach, of course, has been a long time sponsor the show and they just launched a new way to learn. Check out outreach on outreach, the place to learn how outreach uses their own software and learn how the team follows up with every lead and record time. Learn how they turn virtual events and people that attend virtual events into prospects. You can also see how they run account based plays man of dreps and so much more, using their very own sales engagement platform. Had to outreach thatt io forward slash on outreach to see what they've got going on. Also, I've got another great sponsor. Linked in today's virtual selling environment to bands a new kind of approach, one that prioritizes the buyer above all else. As the world's largest professional network with seven hundred and twenty two million members, Linkedin is the only place where buyers and sellers connect, share and drive success for each other every day. Find new ways to connect with your buyers virtually. With linkedin sales navigator, we can learn more or request a Freedmo at business dot linkedincom for sales solutions. Now, without further ado, let's listen to my interview with Kyle Racky. Hey, everybody, it's Sam Jacobs. Welcome to the sales hacker podcast. Today we're excited to have on the show Kyle racky. Kyle is the CEO and Co founder of propose afy ASSASS company based out of Halifax, Novascochia, Canada, that helps more than tenzero sales teams around the world eliminate the frustration caused by the proposal process. Kyle started his first business, a Web Design Company, at age twenty four and sold at after five years. He's blogged extensively about his journey through the ups and downs of entrepreneurship and was a subject of a two thousand and sixteen article in Time magazine. In two thousand and nineteen, he published his first book, free trials and tribulations, how to build a business while getting punched in the mouth, which was featured as an Amazon best seller. Outside of work, he hangs out with his wife, three sons, plays guitar and attempts to serve. Kyle, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. Sam excaided to be here. We're excited to have you, and I should have asked this before we click record, but did I pronounce your last name correctly? I didn't hear what you said. I think you said Racky. Right, that's what I said. Yeah, well, that's right, perfect, okay, good, all right. So, Kyle, here's how we start. We call it the baseball card, but what it really is is an opportunity for you to share with us a little bit more about your company. So they are incredible and great sponsors of the sale paper PODCAST. Propos of FY. But in your words, what is proposed, if I do so, propose a FI is software that really helps sales teams get a handle on their proposal process. We exist really because a lot of sales leaders come to us and they say, Hey, our sales reps are kind of running their own playbook when it comes to proposals. Everybody is sort of, you know, copying and pasting, going in their email, finding the last proposal they wrote or just kind of building their own thing and as a result, deals go out with mistakes, error, sometimes pricing issues, heavily discounted terms that are kind of out of wax. So they kind of feel like they need to put some guard rails in place over their proposal process and get more visibility into it, not necessarily understanding what's out there. have their prospects looked at their proposals? What are they most interested in? So essentially that's what proposal fi does. In a nutshell, we help the sales leaders get more control and visibility into their sales process. That's awesome. Are there enhancements that, as a consequence of, you know, use you systematizing the process of putting together a proposal? Are there things that you've done that are that make it even better than normal proposal. Yeah, absolutely. So.

One of the delivery mechanisms through our platform is instead of just like emailing your prospect to pdf and and kind of hoping that they opened it or it got through their spam filters, is it's just a link. It's, you know, kind of in a similar way to Docu sign but much more heavily branded to you. And then that way your client can actually interact with the proposal, so it's not just a PDF, it's more like a living document. They can interact with the fees. They've gotten video in there, which you can leverage in a really great way. So it's actually a better output of the proposal as well as, internally, kind of a more efficient way to process it. That's awesome. One of the things I don't know if you know Jocko of Endercoy by who who runs winning by design, but he talks about asynchronous selling, meaning, you know, selling happening not at the same time but through the proposal being shared around the organization, being able to sell to different levels of the organization. You know, as you go and I think probably this the product probably really dramatically enhances sales people's ability to do that. Oh, totally. Yeah, and we recently just integrated with videyard. So that way, if you use videard to send videos to your prospects, you can also embed them in your proposals. And that way, like you said, Somebody's boarding it around to the CEO or CFO who wasn't on the call. They weren't there throughout the sales process, you can still create content that speaks to them in their needs. Fantastic. So how old is the company? Tell us a little bit of whatever you're comfortable sharing in terms of how many employees, where you are in your revenue journey, when you found it it you know, give us a little bit of a biographical context on the company. Sure. Yeah, so we started in two thousand and fourteen. Really was when we got going with it or raised our first round of funding and start a finding product market fit. We're kind of in Beta about a year before that. We are AAST out of Halifax, Nova Scotia, which is on the east coast of Canada, and that's where most of us are, though we're pretty distributed team. We're about a hundred head count or so. Give your take and just passed about seven million US D in in are are awesome. Well, congratulations. How did you get into entrepreneurship? I think your life story is really, really interesting and would love to hear a little bit about it. Everybody's journeys different, but you know, as I read in the Biou, you started your first company at the tender age of twenty four. What was your background? Did you always have entrepreneurship in your jeans? You know, tell us a little bit about about how you got here. I really didn't have entrepreneurship in the Jens. I never wanted to be one, although I guess, looking back in hindsight, there was a lot of stuff that I did as a kid that probably was a precursor to entrepreneurship. Like I had my own paper roots that kind of taught me how to like keep a ledger and sell the customers, track expenses, all that kind of stuff. But also I was raised in a very tightly controlled religion or cult, and so we had to go like door to door throughout my whole pretty much my whole life until I left it my adulthood. We had to go in like actively try to recruit people to the cult, and so every week we would have, say it really sales training and public speaking training on how to overcome objections, how to find common ground or rapport building with the you know what they called the householder, we would call the prospect. So it was actually a quite a bit of sales and public speaking training in that environment, which probably helped later on in life as I as I got into entrepreneurship. How comfortable are you talking about that experience? That sounds powerful. I'm an open book. I literally wrote a book on a cult free trials and tribulation. So there's a whole chapter in there about kind of leaving the Colt in the in the personal repercussions, losing my family because of it and that kind of thing. Wow. So and how did you, when did you develop the awareness that, you know, the cult, the organization, whatever I want to call it, wasn't for you and that you know, because, I mean, I'm sure so much of what the practices are are really built around indoctrination and making sure that the core beliefs are embedded into your mind. How did you break free from that? So I had doubts about it for a very long time, probably since my childhood that I buried. But then, as I was older, I was actually running... first business at the time, which was like a Web Design Agency, and I was becoming disillusion with the religion. But I but the way the cult, which is actually, if people are curious, is Jehovah's Witnesses, pretty well known religion, but I think a lot of people don't realize like the extent of the the mind control and manipulation that happens within it. It's, I've probably put it, very similar to scientology, if you know, people are familiar with that. There's even sort of interchangeable terms. Like you know somebody who leaves Scientology and speaks against it, they call them suppressive persons. That's kind of the label they attached to it. With Jehovah's Witnesses, it's apostates. So it's like similar concepts, different verbiage. Yeah, yeah, I mean you're basically embedded with a fear and actually a paranoia about what they call postate literature. So anybody who's ever left the religion and writes about it or speaks about it being wrong are considered a post states. They're considered like basically Satan's minions. They're there to just destroy you, and so you develop this paranoia of even like Google searching your own religions, name because you're not allowed to read any literature that's critical of it. But that's what I did one day. I just finally just said fuck it and Google Jehovah's Witnesses and read blog posts about it and I was like really, like within an hour I was like, Holy Shit, I was raised in a cult. Wow, well, that must have been a really you know, Kudos to you for having the courage to speak up and for having the courage to set a different path. It must be to the point, right. You're in a postate now, I guess, according to them. So like you're disassociated from your family. Is that right? Yeah, so very soon after I had become, I guess, like in it to like having the veil lifted or having my eyes opened. Awakened, is a term that a lot of us in the xjw community use, I told my mother right away, which it was a really dumb move, because a lot of people who leave these types of things they keep it a secret. She instantly, you know, said like okay, well, we'll never speak again until you decide to come back. Same thing with my sister. So, yeah, I've been completely strange from my mother and sister. I'm really sorry to hear that. Well, they're not to be Glib, but their losses, I guess the world's gain. Let's let's, let's move on from that top. So you started this, this web design agency, I mean and front. You know, you have a family now and children and sounds like you're doing incredibly well. So congratulations on going to be happy with my decision. I know you were looking for a great segue and it was tough to make one, but I couldn't be happier with the decision. There's there's no great segue from you know, I don't want. I no longer speak to my sister mother, but anyway, here's my proposal. Soft so sales. Let's talk exactly, but at least it's authentic. So you basically run your own web design agency. What were the lessons that you learned there that enabled you ultimately and was that a straight line from you did that and then you immediately started propose a FY or you know, what was the journey from from that moment into now running a hundred person company all over the world? Etc. When I started the agency it was there wasn't really a grand plan other than I I had been freelancing a bit prior to that, so I liked, you know, having quit my job at about twenty four and gone out on my own, I enjoyed the freedom that came with entrepreneurship. But I was sort of getting lonely and wanted a team, so I partnered with somebody I knew from an agency, Kevin, who's still my business partner to this day. But we were I was really just winging it. I was trying to learn what I could, but obviously there's so much to learn about entrepreneurship when you get into it. There's IT's kind of like surfing, right, like you can't just read a book on surfing and be good at it. You have to get out there and fail. A whole bunch of times like that with anything. So like I made a ton of mistakes running the agency and it was never really that big. We never broke the one million mark in sales, like we were. We're about ten people at our biggest, maybe twelve. So it was a very small company and I made all these mistakes around, like not hiring correctly you know, not being able to build in recurring revenue, like...

...just always feast or famine, trying to find the next project. We didn't manage it very efficiently. But one of the biggest like mistakes I made was we didn't go all in on a vertical or we didn't have any kind of specialty. We were just general purpose web design marketing for anybody who could basically write us a check. And as we were getting proposed a fire off the ground, the thing that I kept coming back to was we don't want to be I don't want to make that same mistake again. I want to be really specific about who were perfect for. So, even though we're a little bit more general purpose today, the company was built initially, in the first couple years, off of the idea that we are proposal software for digital agencies. It was like that was the market. I knew that was I understood their pain because I was the customer. So we wouldn't very narrow and deep with that vertical at the beginning and, like I said, we've broadened out ever since. We'd have tons of customers from different industries, but I think that like really specific, like picking a narrow beachhead to enter at the beginning was probably one of the keys to our success. Did that help you build first of all, you know, get word of mouth, because all of those maybe those people, you know, the same types of people tend to talk to each other if they're all homogeneous to a certain extent, and then from there built a brand that enabled you to extend beyond agencies had. Like, what is the output of the focus that that drove success? Do you think? I think it's exactly what you just said. Is Is. You know, all of our content was completely geared towards helping digital agency owners run better businesses. Right. There was a little bit in there about proposals every now and then, but a lot of it was just like, you know, essentially me sharing all my lessons from failing really at running an agency and then also embedding myself in different communities, like Jason Swings Community Digital Marketer, you know, bit of the Hubs Bot community, like there's different kind of places where people hang out both digitally and in person, and we, you know, we just went all in on that market. A lot of our investors and people that we were talking to about investing, we're always saying, like proposals are just such a huge problem, like you should just go big and like go after everybody, and we were real I was very stubborn about saying like no, I'm not going to make that mistake again. You know, it's so hard to build brand if you attack the entire addressable market. I really wanted to go nar our own deep and it worked out. It got us to that first few million and revenue that we could then build upon. That's awesome. Did you raise money for it right away? You know, was it always intending to be like a more traditional venture capital back to, you know, Sass business, or did you rate? What was the funding history of the company? We had tried to raise some funding when we were running our agency, but a lot of people do it, like a lot of VC's, and investors didn't want to invest in sort of people who are running a side business. Like they basically want you out there sort of starving, living out of your car before they'll invest, because they want to know that you're not going to just retreat back to like your service business or your consultancy if things get tough. So it was actually really hard for us to raise money without selling the agency. Now, thankfully, the agency wasn't really a cash cow. It made it was enough for us to live off of, but it wasn't like we were just raking in these huge dividends at the end of the year. So it was a pretty easy decision to sell off the agency and go all in on propose a fine. And once we were able to do that and we had a product that, you know, wasn't necessarily that far along, but it had a few customers and people were paying us to use it, that was enough for our us to raise our seed round of funding with a Novercor that's awesome. So one of the things that that you said that I you have a lot of really interesting perspectives, which is makes you a great podcast guest. One of the things that you've said is that you said, despite what vcs love to ask founders and pitch meetings, startups have no mode, secret sauce or anything defensible that stops a large competitor from copying the idea. That is somewhat controversial perspective. When you say that, tell me what you mean. What experiences are you referencing and and if that's true, then what who startups do in order to maintain and...

...sustain a competitive advantage. Yeah, awesome question. I'm really glad you asked me about that. I mean, if anybody is out there raising money, the first thing they should know when they talk to a VC is they are looking for any reason whatsoever to turn you down. And that's just the nature of VC. They have a lot of deals come across their desk and it has to be really substantial or the founder has to have a proven track record. Like if you just came off of an exit where you you know, major VC's a billion dollars, then you can come at them with like a Napkin sketch and just sailor. Yeah, I just want to do something in VR and they'll just write you a check for twenty million dollars. But there is even getting fund to that much these days. Yeah, that's true. Actually, I'm doing a little anyway. I won't get in that. Yeah, so, like VC's love to say what you know. What is your secret sauce? Like that's even kind of in your standard pitch deck template of like secret sauce, unique value, prop defensible mode, however you want to put it. And the thing is nobody has that at the beginning. Like how can you possibly have a defensible mode? Do you have like some kind of IP? That's that's what's the word I'm looking for. You know, the thing that so people can't copy your idea? Right, like it's right copyright, a patent, trade mat and death's there is the word I was looking for. Or this like crazy infrastructure that's very difficult to replicate. Like nobody has that, because it's usually just a couple people with an idea and a little bit of code. So the idea that you'd have this defensible mode that nobody can come in and copy, it's just absolutely ridiculous. And if you look at the companies that have succeeded and have gotten very big, it's the ones who were just they had a really clear idea of what they wanted to do and then they executed like hell. Like who couldn't have created slack or Uber Right, like, just purely from up? If you look at it on paper, like Microsoft or Facebook, anybody could have created a chat tool. Why was it that slack grew the way it did? And it was like they executed really well. Sure, the founder had some experience coming off a flicker and like other projects, but at the end of the day, it was like they just moved really fast. They built a great brand, like in the mind of consumers, everybody use slack. You'll use uber as an example too. But at the beginning that, of course, there wasn't anything that was keeping these big giant companies from doing it other than they weren't focused on it at the time. And I think that's the only defensible mote that startups have is banking on the fact that Google isn't focused on this right now. That is very true and most startups, most companies really underestimate. You sit in a management meeting with your leadership team and you figure out how difficult sometimes it is to make decisions, and then you think about a multibillion dollar company and yes, they could copy what you're doing, but you know there's a lot of different interests around those tables and a lot of different incentives and it's just not as likely that they're going to even care as much. When you talk about execution, you know that word gets bandied about a lot. What does it mean to you, you know, when you say they executed really well, and I'm asking because I thought, like I said, I think a lot of people talk about it. It's not clear exactly what the definition is. Is it is it quick decisionmaking? Is it less bureaucratic process? When you think about great execution, what comes to mind for you? I think it's all that great, you know, fast decisionmaking, experimental, willing to and I think that's why Amazon has done so well at innovating and creating like these new business models that really aren't part of their core offering, but they're just able to execute really well. You just been so much written about how Amazon works and how they make decisions and they produce a ton of failures, to which is important. The only way to innovate is to try things rapidly and fail really quickly. Right. So, you know, use a different example of great execution with Netflix, like there was no reason why, on paper, why blockbusters shouldn't be the website that we all log into and watch movies every night. Right like blockbuster had it, they had the cash, they had the brand, the CA catalog, like the...

...head at all, and they just weren't their executives, like you said, we're they're it's too big a company there to stayed in the old ways. Like this was written about in the innovator's dilemma, like once you get to a certain size, everything becomes about protecting the way that you make money, like or being romantic about the way you made money. Netflix was different because leadership saw that, like, if we don't disrupt ourselves, somebody else will. So we need to be the first to be streaming. And so they just they built the right team. They got one who was experienced in building streaming. Like they had people in their team who wanted to build the streaming service but hadn't done it before, and they said sorry, like you guys built the delivery mechanism of DVD's, but we're built. We're bringing in a team who's done this. And that's what I mean when I talk about execution. Yeah, and and Netflix is really a truly great example. What are your leadership principles? Do you know? Do you have them? Have you formed them? Have they developed as the company has grown? A hundred people's a meaningful amount of people. There's, you know, people that you probably don't know super well that work at propose a FI. So what's the framework that you use to be a CEO of a fast growing startup company? Yeah, I have a really good business coach, Dan Martel, who I always sort of like almost on a daily basis. Just try to think about it. Is like a CEO's job. Really there's three things. It's to build the vision and set the vision for for everybody around you and repeat it constantly. It's to make sure that you've got the right people on the bus and the wrong people off the bus. So it's like building the team, maintaining the team and like coaching them to success. And then just don't run out of money, like whatever you have to do to make sure that there's like good governance and good financial practices, work with your CFO, etcetera like. But that's it and if you get, if you nail those three jobs as a CEO, then everything else works out. But those three jobs are actually really hard, even though they sound simple, and so, especially the building the team part, it's constantly evaluating, like are the people who are leading this division or this department the People, the person that's going to take us to where we need to go? And that's always kind of the Lens that you have to look at it through. So there's coaching, there's supporting, but ultimately it's about holding people accountable for results and being quick to move them either somewhere else in the business or out of the business if they can't do the job fair enough. But also, I think, you know, I think my experience. I'm curious on your reaction. I think sometimes, at least when I hear investors talk about that very skill of, you know, quote unquote, making the difficult decision of removing sympathy, I feel like now there's too much emphasis on making that decision quickly without really ensuring that you've put that person in the best possible position to succeed by giving them the resources, the support, the development that they need and then the opportunity to your point, because one of the things you said is, you know, people have to be allowed to fail, or at least maybe products have to be allowed to fail. So there has to be like some combination of flexibility so that you can realize the upside in the team that you're building. Do you how do you feel? What's your reaction of that? I mean, I think that if somebody is taking that advice really to heart and they're giving an executive like you know, two months to turn the ship around or to like do something that's crazy and unexpected and there and then if they don't, they get them out the door. You're probably taking that advice a little bit too seriously. But what I've observed has been the opposite of like people leave others, and it's not just the executive team, it's your executives reports as well, that the directors, the managers and then their reports. Is that if you have the type of culture where you're always just kind of like letting it's okay for us to fail, it's okay for us to miss the mark, and you don't address it soon enough, sometimes people stick around and rolls that are really not equipped for for way too long. We're talking, you know, two, three, four years. And so if you can even get it to like a twelvemonth cadence where it's like if somebody's come in and they're in, they're not able to like make a meaningful change or move the needle within like a three, a thirty day, sort of ninety day and then twelvemonth...

...time period, then the probably never going to do it right. So you have and doesn't mean get them out of the business. They may just be great somewhere else, but they're not good in the in the function that you have them in. Fair enough. Kyle, it's great talking to you and we're unfortunately almost at the end of our time together. What we like to do at the end is to hear hear about some of your influences, people that you think we should know about. Can Be your favorite vp of sales that doesn't work or propose a by it can be mentors, already mentioned Dan Martell, your business coach, or it can be ideas. It can be a great book that you think everybody should read. So when I frame it that way, which is pretty all encompassing, it's sort of whoever you think we should know about what comes to mind. Well, you know, I know sort of pre interview one of the questions was who's your favorite investor that's not on your board? And somebody I don't know if this audience is familiar with him, but his name is Andrew Wilkinson. He's he's Canadian like me, but on the other side. He's on the EA, the western coast. He's on the fun side. He knows if here on the East but yeah, like Andrew Wilkinson, he started actually company called Metal Lab, which is like an agency that that designed a lot of products. Everyone's familiar, familiar with. They worked with Apple, facebook and slack, but that was ten years ago or so and since then he's been an investor and he runs tiny capital. But I heard him on a podcast. I've sort of been following them over the years. We talked a little bit off and on and his approach to investing is really interesting because he talks about essentially looking for companies that are like the New Zealand of companies. And what he means by that is like New Zealand's this like great country that sort of tucked down there that nobody really talks about a lot, but it's just it's just got like good bones, and so when he's investing, he doesn't look for like all the hot startups in like VR and are and crypto and all these really sexy industries that tons of VC's are going after. He's looking for like online businesses that have staying power, that have really good unit economics that he wants to invest in. The law hall kind of that Charlie Munger approach to investing of like find a great company and keep it for the long haul. So I recommend anyone check them out on twitter. He's got interesting thoughts. Thank you for sharing that. That's awesome, Kyle. If folks are listening and they want to get in touch with you, are you okay with that? Maybe they want to work at propose a by maybe they want to buy your software and if you are okay with it in some form, what's your preferred method of communication? Yeah, I'm fairly active on Linkedin. If people check out just kyle racky on Linkedin or give a search, I'll be around there. They can email me as well, Kyle. A proposed bycom or check out our website. Propose a fiedcom if they are curious to check out the software. Awesome, Kyle. Thanks so much for being on the salesacker podcast and we'll talk to you on Friday for Friday fundamentals. Thanks, sir. Hey, everybody Sam's corner really enjoyed that conversation with Kyle racky. Pretty brave and courageous of him to sort of let us into a little bit of his upbringing as a Jehovah's Witness, and I can only imagine the pain that it must have caused to have to tell his mother and his family that he was not pursuing that path and having having them tell him that they would not speak to him over again until he rejoined the community. So that's got to be a current incredibly courageous and difficult decision for anybody to leave the group that they've grown up with and that they've been where they've learned their culture from and it been indoctrinated into. So that was just, you know, something that's just an impressive person. Not impressive necessarily. I don't have a point of view on the beliefs of the Jehovah's Witness. Is just that, you know, it's hard to go against the group. The group often is so dominating and to have the courage to speak your own mind and to go your own way is a demonstration of courage. It's not the easy thing to do, certainly. The other thing we talked about is how he thought about building and scaling propose a FY and it was really a very tight focus. He remember, he used... run a Web Marketing Agency and Web Design Agency and so originally it was proposal software for design agency. So one of the things that we hear a lot on the podcast is people just making sure that your ICP, your ideal customer profile, that you're focus. You know exactly who your buyer is. And if you don't know exactly who your buyers and you're trying to be all things to all people, inevitably it just becomes that much harder to find resonance. And what you want is a message that is so clear and clean and understood that it does isolate. It puts off some people right you need people to say that's not for me, because that means that you are fun that it's a clear enough signal that it will find the people that it is for. I often think about like a laser beam versus a diffusion of light. If it's a clean, clear enough well understood message and target audience, it can find all of those people all over the world, even if you feel like it's a small market. But you want to clear enough signal and that signal can only be repeated if it's clean, clear and easily understood and replicated, and that's how you build a very strong signal that broadcasts out to the universe. So, anyway, those are my thoughts. That's the end. We're at the end of that part. If you're not a member of the sales hacker community yet, I think you're missing out. Any sales professional can join as a member to ask questions, get answers and share experiences with like minded sales professionals. Jump in and start a discussion with more than tenzero sales professionals at sales haccercom. Of course, we want to thank propose a fi well for the guests, but we really want to thank linkedin. Find new ways to connect with your buyers virtually. With linkedin sales navigator you can learn more or request a freedom of business that linkedincom for sales solutions. Of course, we also want to thank outreach once again. Thanks for listening. If you wouldn't mind giving us a five star review, I of course, would really appreciate it. If you want to get in touch with me, you can email me Sam at revenue collectivecom. Otherwise, I'll talk to you next time.

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