The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 months ago

165. How to Transition into Tech Sales from a Non-SAAS Background

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

165. Lee Berkman

One two one: Three: Three: Everybody atSam Jacobs, welcome to the sales hocker podcast today on the show we've got LeeBerkman he's an enterprise account executive at cloud share, he's had areally interesting life, doing all kinds of things, from being a Barman atan English pub in London to selling door to door and Cape Down South Africaand now doing enterprise sales for clouer virtualities software out oftelepy. So it's a great conversation out before we get there. We want totalk to and thank our sponsors. The first is our reach. Our reach has beena long time sponsored this podcast and they just launch a new way to learn ourreach on out reaches the place to learn how outreach does out reach, learn howthe team follows up with every lead and record time after virtual events andturns them into revenue. You can also see our ou, which runs a count face,plays, manages reps and so much more, using their very own sales engagementplatform. Everything is backed by data pulls from out each processes in thecustomer base, when you're done, you'll be able to do as well as they do go toAristot io fork lash on out reach to see what they've got going on. PODCASThas also brought to you by pavilion. The company that used to be known asRevenue Collective Pavilion is the key to getting more out of your career. Ourprivate membership connects you with the network of thousands of like mindedpears and resources where you can tap into leadership, opportunities,training, mentorship and other services made for high glothes leaders like youwith a Bazilli n membership, you'll build deep connections with peers toexpand your expertise and unlike growth, opportunities access to full set oftraining and certification programs for sales, marketing, customer success andunlock over a hundred different job opportunities. Every week sharedbetween members and a trusted in private setting, unlocked yourprofessional potential with a pavilion membership to day learn more at JoinPavilion Com. Finally, today's virtual selling environment demands a new kindof approach, one that priorities the buyer above all else. As the world'slargest professional network was seven hundred and twenty two million memberslinked in is the only place where biers and sellers connect share and drivesuccess for each each other every day find new ways to connect with yourbuyers virtually with Lincoln sales...

...navigator. You can learn more orrequest to free demo at business that Linkin Ford Life Sales Dash SolutionsNow without further do let's listen. My conversation was leave Barkmaneverybody at Sam Jacob's, welcome to the Sales Hacker podcast today on theshow we've got Lee Berkman leaves an enterprise account executive at cloudshare where he's responsible for helping prospects and customers fromstartups and large enterprise organizations drive higher customeracquisition and retention by Leveraging cloudship business accelerationplatform to provide engaging hands on software experiences such as virtualtraining and remote demos and POC anywhere in the world. At any time, Leebrings a rich set of interpersonal skills and technical knowledge. Havingheld a variety of international customer facing positions in bothconsumer and high tech organizations. He grew up in South Africa has lived inLondon in the US and is currently living in Tellai Israel. Lee Welcome tothe show thank her much fain me Sim, like that, was quite a mouthful. It was the mouthful you provided to me.I'm happy to deliver it back to you reurging. Now the marketing team does agood job of making me sound established. So I'm very comfortable with that. Well,we'll try our best to disabuse everybody that notion over the coursethe next twenty to twenty five minutes. I don't think you need that much time so so you're, an enterprise accountexecutive at cloud. Show we like to start with your baseball card, whichreally means just giving an opportunity to tell us a little bit more aboutcloud share. So what is cloud sure? In your words, I think in a nutshell,cloud Shire for not. I think culture provides a virtual it softwareenvironments and experiences for individuals for and users. What we dois we help enable businesses and companies to deliver an IT solution to an inducer,whether that be a user for training for a sale, development person, basicallydoing product roll out, testing, Qa or in the case in the topic were befocusing on today. I think more, it definitely is sales, so you're able tobasically enable a sales team, your...

...sales engineers to have a catalog ofready to deploy, geered environments over and above the actual, fullyfunctioning software with added assets, materials guides and also provide a enduser, a potential buyer, a Business Prospect, prof of concept to prove ofvalue by hands on experience versus in again a very controlled mechanic, soclevering vitalization easily delivered over a web browser, no software neededfor anyone's part or pre installs of for I should say because the solutionthat you want the end user to have will be utilized with in culture and that'swhat culture does we deliver virtual experiences? We be deliver hands onexperiences. How long have you been at the companytell us how old is the company how many employees are like? How do we get asense for the size of it? Things like that, so the company has gone throughone or two changes in its life. It's about a fourteen year old organization.I've been fortunate to be with the company over four years. At this point,my role as you mentioned, I'm a enterprise account manager, so I'mresponsible for working with new business prospects on adoptingevaluating Cloud Shire where past the fifty employee point now so we're kindof an incredibly mature start up. In that sense, we have an incredibly wellpolished and developed product and platform, so we're one of the FUNNIindustry leaders with regards to providing these type of experienceswith the amount of insights and analytics, but still incredibly numble.That kind of ONTER question Yeah Yeah! Absolutely- and I guess, when youdescribe sort of virtualities and deliver, tell me if I'm off, but itsounds like it's almost like a horizontal tool that can be used in somany different use cases. Do you find it is that accurate? And if so, how didyou derive the sort of sales IC versus the kind of it solution? I p. is ithard to describe and focus the solution that can be used in so many differentways towards a specific use case in...

...this case sales, or is it a verynatural use case and everybody immediately understands what you'retalking about? That's a great question and, depending on the day, you asked meI'll, probably on to a different way. Each time I come from the background ofselling multi plugs and lighting and basically pom entertainment systems, somoving into high tech and learning what virtualities was as pretty far cry fromand me, I'm still a geek, and I like all this stuff, you know, but it wasstill the learning car for me. So we're selling we're providing solutions toparts of businesses that don't necessarily have the it know how tocross virtualities and be able to easily replicate it solutions easily,and that makes sense. A sales person doesn't necessarily want to be able toset up a IT infrastructure so that their prospects can, you know, be handshoneth it, but when you start being able to show and demonstrate how, witha little bit of it, preparation, saving an environment that can then be onceyou finish, this business focus conversation with potential buyerprospect give them that hands on experience. In a matter of minutes anda few clicks, the conversation becomes quite simple. The conversation becomesquite easy, so it really depends on who we're talking to and we do support somany different departments and different leaders and different rolesand organizations we support and we work with, and we have virus part ofthe IT Department in Division within an organization that conversation you canimagine, is far more technical focused because they want to get into theNIGETA above. But how many layers are you able to support with customizednetworking? It's a very different conversation to a salesperson okay. Buthow am I able to show case my solution and have insights to how engaged theprospect was to very different focuses, but in results of really similar in theplatform provides all of it and one in...

...one clean offering again that's kind of.Does that help you kind of perfect? Of course it helps yeah yeah I mean Er. Itabsolutely helps, but in sense to me in my head, so I always want to make surethat I'm translating it really well- and you can hear like I deal with a lotof business prospects- that it's always did that make sense. Do you have anyquestions, so you might get that a fair amount? Well, I, like the you, know,there's a bit of controversy around the phrase. Does that make sense, but Ipersonally like it a lot, so I'm always happy for you to ask it to me and thenI can tell you whether it did or not. I've had so many schools of thatparticular question. You don't ask it because you're insinuating that theperson you're speaking, he doesn't understand it and I'm quite frankly nottrying to be too polite. I want to know if you don't understand it, and youknow I feel I'm not trying to be sweet, I'm trying to be as effective aspossible. You know, so it makes a lot of sense. Speaking of sort of salestechniques and sales background. You know you mentioned you've been at cloudchair four years. I read in your your bio that you grew up in South Africa.You've lived in London in the US so essentially all over the world and thenand then came to televid, so walk us through a little bit of your story. Howdid you get to cloud hair? How did you get to Tellai? How did you originallyget into sales? You mentioned that you were selling home entertainment systems.That sounds like an interesting background to make this migration,where you grow up, give us a little bit of the life story of Lee Berkman. Thelife story is good fortune and lucky breaks. Then I guess, taking advantageof a non stop, grew up in Cape Town to Africa, one of the most gorgeous citiesyou'll ever be able to visit in your lifetime straight out of high school.When traveling, I did not study by the Toko University. I went straight intoworking as a water, ski instructor bombing in London and getting myopportunity to be abroad. I came back to South Africa was not in exact, Ithink goal or direction and landed up in calls. It wasn't a straight salesposition. I actually landed up in a call center first and the salesdirector knocked on the door but of day year, O o me basically landing up likemanaging this school center, and he...

...said Lee you're gonna have to buy asuit. You're going to have to stop wearing colorful socks and you're goingto come on the road selling with me. I still wake colorful sucks to this day.By the way I think Caliver sock are a good conversation starter. I don'tthink you have anything to be ashamed out. Oh No, no, very proud of it! svery proud. I did where I did have to go by whiteand black socks had lost it for a few weeks and yeah and that's kind of how my sales started.I was six years for a whole sailor, so of quite different to what I do know,but still be to be, but I never worked in an office. Si didn't work behind adesk. I was on my car all the time do of my office and you are selling stereoequipment, so not ter cone, but, like TV brackets H my cables speaking cablesatellite to come, how do you call it receivers? You would say in America wecall them just satellite the cotes, so I think we had line items close totwenty thousand items so from a a batteries, the tortures to, like, I say,larger type of coping and even solar panels, and you were selling toretailers. You were selling two businesses setting to like ontelevision stations or offices or just anybody I was selling to so manydifferent businesses. We were setting to Mama Papa shops, we were selling toconvenience stores, we were selling to large national nationwide franchisesand then actual, and you know handymen and Stollers, so the amount of people Ispoke to the amount of office, spaces or McDonald that I set in to sell wasalso so fresh and check. You know just really interesting my favorite storesto the state at to walk into as a hardware shop. I love a hardware store,so you know that's where it nice is all this is all across South Africa. Thisis all across prodooce on the Western cave. No, no! No! I was I was prettymuch. You know the longest journeys I did were like eight hour drives to gosea lines, Lo probably less on exaggerating, and that was for five sixyears and it was a wonderful experience I loved it. I actually still have tothis day very close friends that, were you know me knocking on their door,saying hey I'd like to sell or a...

...flashlight and them saying: Listen, I'mbusy! I don't have time for you to the stay, communicating literally a fewhours ago. You know so you build these incredible interpersonal relationshipswith human beings and you learn how to be a sales person. You learn how not tobe a salesperson. You make some incredible mistakes, come overconfident to become incredible, I'm cheeking! Actually! So, once like you want, you start gettingcocky with regards to the fact that you were for because it was a national widecompany that I work, but was quite a great brand name in Cat Tom SalerieEllis, and you become quite confident that you know people will just buy fromyou. So a lot of wonderful learning, experiences with sales and after awhile, like I, was looking for a change in a fresh stop. So what better waythan to say I'm taking as a BETICA, you know, leaving your car at home, rentingout your house and jumping on a plane in Israel was my first stop. It wasmeant to be for five months, six months on a little holiday and I'm on the sameholiday seven years later, and how is it? How do you like livingin Israel? You know this week is a unique time to ask me. I would have avery different answer a week ago, but I'm very passionate about the country.I love it. It's were it's incredibly unique. It's a it's a real melting potto put in mildly and a fortunate opportunity. They call it the stall upnation, that's as true as can be, and I've had more work. BusinessOpportunities here than I think I could have ever have had back where I comefrom and potentially in the UK or the states. So I love being in Israel. Ilove the climate. I love the food. The humans here are really somethingspecial and unique so very happy here and with regards to finding work. Ihave my first job here because what happens is you can become a experiencedsalesperson in to Africa selling multi plugs and it come to Israel and there'sa huge, Anglo focus type of work group in high tech because you workinternationally, so English speakers...

...fall into Hitachi, pretty. Naturally Iwork and sales, so it kind of worked that out find a sales position in hightech, except for the fact that I was like well. You then work high tech, soyou don't really know how to sell so I kind of started. I don't want tosay square one, but I was a junior and you start as a sales developmentrepresentative. You know trying to get meetings for other account executives,so the first job I got had nothing to do with high tech was a company thatdid preparations for organization that went to conferences and had to buildlike these big lavish stands and marketing materials and stuff, and Iwas an str for this three months in the job and I was like it was. It was theshortest career choice I ever had. I went to the bus, I said listen, this isnot working for me. It's not working for you. Let's shake hands and say goodbye. When my next job I got was actually at a pretty well known.Technology Company called walk me and I was again just good fortune being SouthAfrican. I found a very repeatable high tech recruiter, who happens to be tothe African in FAVORSO, O h, Africans in general. Looking for and she waslike, oh I've got this great company. I've never heard of obviously priorthey're looking for sale, development, benet str are you in to them Toroll mymediate answers. Yes, no problem speak to the recruiter, so s Dr we. Basically,I don't know if to explain STRO and I'm assuming not your audience. I had noidea what the roll in sailed, but when she mentioned to me it was us. Ours waslike. Oh, maybe have something UK ours then we're like. We have a CS position,but is what is that I didn't know what to Sam was. I didn't know if I didn'tknow these sort of like high tech roles, responsibilities and sort of salesflows, sales processes, you know for me, it was take a sample, show it to aclient, compete on price pet on features and functionality and land.You know just general relationship and how quick you can deliver it to my shop.So I said sure, that's out a good good job to me and I became a customersuccess manager actually, which was very fortunate, because I got thewonderful foundation of understanding...

...the sort of preempt sales of SASS salescycles and you know acquiring clients as one thing in the presale part andthen how important it is to nurture and enable them to keep them as a client.So that was my first position and then exactly like you said, I became an SRfirst to walk me and then had the fortune of meeting cloud share. You know, I'm sure you got feed back tothe point of your conversations with recruiters and companies that you knowwhat you'd done in South Africa as a whole sailor driving around you knowthe Western Cape, pitching Hg cables and flat screen TV brackets had nothingat all to do with tech sales, but I'm sure that probably wasn't quite thecase. What was your experience in terms of the things that were surprising toyou in terms of the sales motion, the sales tactics and techniques and whatwere the things that were really the same as what you'd experienced in SouthAfrica and really weren't as different as people might think they are, I guess,what's not different- is you're selling to a person you're dealing with aperson at the end of the day, I remember when I first became the salesrap. My question to my manager as why are they sales raps? Then I didn't meanit in a funny precedio s way. I meant there are so many options, there'sInternet available, and that was even before we were on the smart phone trend.At such rate, we are now like it was blackberry back then, an a lot ofpeople weren't. Even on that check. So there's pretinded and you know whatstops Buire, I'm looking for a product going to the phone book, looking onlinephoning for a product getting a price and order it. But why do you need salespeople and I think the old truth is people buy from people, and I stillbelieve that to this day and Sass is an incredibly competitive space. Becauseof how smart fires are, how much information is out there how muchchoices out there, but at the end of the day somebody is going to becommitting to a solution but they're also committing to their providerthey're committing to somebody that's going to support them throughout theiradoption, their process with sat sales,...

...and I guess what I've learned and Iwould all speak about the no. I guess the what's still the same is with sense:You're not buying a product. You know, like a physical hand, you knowsomething that you can do tangible product, you're, buying a valueproposition, saying it's going to improve something in your business flowprocess, whether that be delivering a hand on experience to your potentialbuyer. You have assass solution and you have an IT product that you want yourpotential buyer to be hands on with in the next twenty minutes. Can you find avendor that can offer that you know you get in touch with cloud or you findthat you can, but at the end of the a you still are going to be dealing witha team and a person that you have to trust. So that's the same, whether I'mselling you a multi plug or whether I'm selling you a annual subscription tohelp support you and your two hundred sales engineer delivered demos of yoursoftware solution. That's the same, and I'm shocked at like how peoplethink it might be different because it's not so. That was something thatsurprised me, and people still maybe don't always see it, but some of thebig changes, some of the things that are different. Is that not seeing humanface to face, and you know one I'm sure ovid has changed so many opinions andways that people can sell and do so and just engage before corbet. I didn'thave my web come on for every call. Now I do so before. Webcam was like a completestandard for me to communicate with people new and existing. You knowcolleagues and prospects and clients. It was virtual call some of us whatwe're doing now sitting behind my computer being able to read notes,while I'm doing it versus going face to face sitting down having a couple ofcoffee getting to a stage, hopefully where you grab a beer with your clients,and you know it's ten minutes business and an hour chatting about their kidsand their dogs and all that so yeah there's so many of these runningparallels that are exactly the same to me. People bar from people, even if itis through a little computer screen,...

...though, or whether you're sitting faceto face to your point. One thing I think, is interesting in the SASS modelthat I think is still maybe a little controversial or just it. You know it'sdebatable. It is debated which is to your point, about people by from peoplethere's this experience that you have sometimes in a lot of Saspicion, wherethe sales person sells you something you've spent a long time building thatrelationship. Exactly to your point, you think that you're buying from XCsales person and then to your point into your first experience. You thenget transferred over to customer success manager and the customersuccess manager is a different person and a different relationship, and it'sjust different. Sometimes it's better, sometimes it's worse, but it is a abreak in the relationship between the first person that you experience, whorepresents the company the brand on the value proposition and then the nextperson who ostensibly theoretically, represents the same things but mayapproach it from a different perspective. Did that make a lot ofsense to you? Did you as somebody that has built all of these relationships,you know through door to door sales and hand to hand sales? Did that not makesense to you? I guess I'm curious. Sometimes people are surprised orconfused at the existence of a customer success team and they say why doesn'tthe sales team do that too? So very much so. My first role in high tech, asI mentioned, was acs, which is something that I loved, because youknow it's a client now and you're, basically getting them to enjoy whatyou're offering them. However, the salesperson still kept tabs like Inoticed that from all metes and what you're really Nice, O what I and you'rea hundred percent right and it's common practice that that is the case andoften the person that goes through the sales journey, the evaluation, theactual then procurement, budget approvals and purchasing culture, forexample, is not the person that's going to be using couture moving forward.They get put on to a project team, so you know the relationship almostchanges dynamic and who you're dealing with from the client side. So there is,like you know, two fold, organizations...

...that obviously have a sale cycle whereit sales, for you know it s, str sales person, pre sales, like s and then Cs.One of the things that I love about Caltura is the fact that and how wesort of like differentiate ourselves. A lot of the time is the fact that we weposition ourselves so much so and again, I think it's one of the things thatreally spoke to me about the company and why I love dealing with R C S, I Cand all the VP's. Actually all the sea level leaders with my company is, weare so, I think, invested in our clients. We take so much more time tounderstand the business need align, what their goals are, and I do that aswell. When they get go, you know not post sale. Trying to do the flashypresentation, get a signature and say adios, it's very much getting thatrelationship start and actually one of the first things we'll have in likethat initial call and Demo, whether I'm doing it, whether my sales engineersfacilitating it with me, is like introducing them with the dynamic ofour culture works and say: Listen. I will be your account manager from thisinitial call, pretty much to the most of your journey of cloud sharedepending on the needs, might migrate and Change, and there will be that sortof handle permanently, but in general, most of the clients that have startedworking with me and some of them have been now for four years actually on thecon, like with cloud train using clatter, I'm still engaged with them ona you know, quarterly basis, at least and again, that's not for every accountand you focus on exactly where the value is. At the end of the day, foryour immediate population for the book you know, Business Bata for culturebenefit, so you're a hundred percent. Writing. Yes, it is a bit foreign to meto just say great nice to meet you thanks or the deal good luck with therest of the team. I A little bit more emotional a littlebit more attached, maybe than I should be sometimes, but I think it'sbeneficial to everyone and clearly we see the benefits of the culture, likeour attention. Rate of our clients is really high and the tender as well thatyou normally very long term. We have...

...cline at have been with us for eightyears, nine years, which is pretty great, going my turning loabes yeahyeah, so and again again, like it's a competitive space like I mentioned,like virtual environments, even if it doesn't seem like a common termcompared to scram. That must be a tough place to play as well. I'm not jealousof those guys that you know there's firm competition, so the fact thatclients, you know, are invested in Clodshire because the platform does sowell, but because the support and the relationship is so that I really valuedagain. That was an incredibly long with it on so bout. How kin o touch stringsto and then and you know that that's whereI'm gets? My Comfort on, I guess, is that relationship building yeah. Well,don't worry about being long winded. First of all, there's drilling in thebackground here and in my building, I think in New York, so listen to you isbetter than listening to the drilling, but also you're the guest. So you'reallowed to be long winded, I'm the person that needs to be concise, wherewe were almost at the end of our time together, but one of the things thatyou've sort of said in the past that I think is interesting. I would just loveto hear a little bit more of your thoughts about it. We asked thequestion in sort of when we're propping for the interview we say. What's wassomething you believe that others don't and your response was. Life is easywhen you say that tell me what you mean, how do you approach it? What is howdoes that relate to your philosophy? I'm just personally curious. So life'seasy is a silly thing to say, because it's not the truth and things thatmatter will often be the most challenging a lot of the time.Relationships are hard to keep strong with it if you with family with that,be with your partner, your kids, but the truth is like I grew up. I was atthis Leta Kid. I wasn't good at school. I wasn't sporty. I wasn't like the mostpopulace school. I wasn't the Habeas Hating in at school, but I didn't. Ididn't have like a clear puff and people weren't sure that I was going tobe able to be independent or achieve anything, but the truth is I got to dowhatever the hell I wanted. I wanted to go traveling off to high school. I didthat. I wanted to be a water ski...

...instructor at a Summer Camp. I did thatso I wanted to work has in the UK. I did that, so I wanted to be able tomake enough money to pay my way. I did that I managed to move to Israelbecause when I got here I decided this looks like a good option and I did thatand I've heard so many people tell me that word work up. Don't do that, likeyou can't do that, tell me I can't do it all. You know be very dust, an I'llget it done. So when people say like it's not possible,I can't do it. I wasn't able to I'm saying if I could do it. You know I d,no one told me like, for you need to be a sells person. Ice landed up in salesand I got given a round o you know back in those days you get given around youget told which clients to go see, and I saw the targets that she was doing inthe potential earning she could do. I said I'll do more and I don't want tosay I think I doubled her in the first eight months, six months of my round so life's easy, not life's not easy. Thisweek in Israel, a knoight, the life can be so challenging, but if you want toget something done, you do it at the end of the day. So I like to thinklife's easy. I always say it is think o you faked long enough. It might be true. I understand- and I appreciate theperspective there's a I forget the name of the Japanese marathon er, butthere's just this. This anecdote or this parable that I think it waspouring rain in Boston one year and every race that he walked up to. Hewould always say these are my favorite conditions and if it's a pouring rainand his you know, shoes are soaked and he's chafing on every part of his body.He says these are my favorite conditions. If it's a hundred and tendegrees- and you know he can barely move, these are his favorite conditions.I feel like it's sort of a similar perspective. I love that a lot. Yes, Ican directly relate it because the truth is you're, going to have thoseshit days, you're going to have really tough days and you're still going to do what you haveto do like you, don't have an option so at the end of it, when it's done was iteasy or hard? You can say it was the...

...hardest day or you can say now. I waseasy down the timber beer and it's yer there's a lot of as toism. In thatperspective, they call it a more fate, the love of fate, so whatever lifethrows at you, you can take it and you do it with a smile on your face. Wewere roughly at the end of our time together, and this is the part where welike to pay it forward. A little bit and figure out. Are there. People inyour life are their ideas in your life or their books in your life. It can beanything you want, but it's really we're trying to follow the bread crumbtrail. We want to know your influences and give us one or two people or ideasor books or pieces of content that you think we should know about that havebeen important to you. Well, that's that's pretty pretty broad but job. I was lucky enough to watch my dad andmaybe COR detail I left out was the fact that I even got that job initiallyafter my years of traveling was the fact that I was my dad shot and my dadgrew up not being given anything and he you know had to work hard because hehad no option. You know he borrowed money from friends and didn't have adad looked after him. The way I had so when I ended up working with him, I gotto see it a guy who was incredibly determined to make sure team madesuccess because he had not the option so that you know that was. I think Iwas a motivating factor for me and a guy who never took a sick day. So I gotto look up to a guy who was a hard worker, but also a boss and a leader asfor books on a completely different tone, was Jack Rack and Dona bumslifestyle. I don't think I would have ever had the balls to live. AmazingAmazing Journey amazing stories about his life on the road. He has a booklife on the road, but the DONA bomes. It really caught me and other thingsthat motivate me. I guess sort of keep me interested. You know I listen themusic of fortune, but I don't stop like this is the longest ten of having ahalf an hour an hour conversation with music, not running. You know that'skind of as soon as I'm done. I hit the play Butan afterwards, but there's somany things I mean t. The truth is I I...

I love it's going to some horrible. I love TVshows not just because I love sitting in front of the t and begging, but Ilove how much effort- and I think production value goes into thesethings same as I think I enjoy fully prepared and handmade products andCroft anywhere where a person is actually taking serious dedication intowhat's being presented. I become such a critic when I watch T V shows as anexample movies. The sound editing was rubbish like that something I'll bringup. You know so that type of step rating encouragesme, especially with small production houses and small artists. That's justreleased their own awe. That's a big deal for me LE. If, if folks are wassitting in, they want to get in touch with you. Maybe they want to talk aboutJack Karewa. Maybe they want to learn about cloud share. Is that okay, andwhat's the best way to get in touch with you? What's your preferredcommunication method? Absolutely Linton is actually Super Trente. The worksreally well so linked on Lee Bekin is always an easy one, but being on thecustom of facing team, I've got a pretty easy email address as well. It'sLee Lee at clouds and whether I'm always interested as well just to hearopinions quite frankly for any of your listeners that are actually takingadvantage of virtual labs, whether that be in a house, but a lot of companieswill manage it themselves. I'd love to learn more about how you're doing itand why you choose to do it in the House and, if you're potentiallyinterested in learning more about how cloud shirk an I guess, Support YourBusiness help a specific project. You have you running a user event in thecoming months, then want to be able to have hands on workshops. For I don'tknow, thousand delegates to tousand delegates get in touch, there's a lotwe can do, but a number of different offerings and different use cases sounds great. We think so much forbeing our guest on the show. This week, we'll talk to Jo on Friday for Fridayfundamentals sex for pleasure. Thank you ever troving me, everybody Sam's, Corner Sam Jacobs,great conversation with leave, Berkman, really interesting guy and took a by acouple, a couple of great sort of ideas...

...in sights from that conversation. Butthe first is that you know there's a lot of people that are trying to make atransition from other kinds of sales or other kinds of backgrounds into tectsales and there's a lot of recruiters a lot of hiring managers. That say, youreally really need Sass sales background in order to be effective.Dealing with customers- and I think Lee is- is a testament to the fact that no,you don't. I think, if you're out there listening you're in hr you're inrecruiting, and you think that people need five years of Sass salesexperience, because that is definition ally. What makes a good sales person orthe only thing that enables you to sell Sass. That's not true you're wrong. Alot of different kinds of people can sell. I was just reading on Linkin thatsome of the best sales people that I think it might have been Scotlan's, butsomebody hired all came from being bartenders. Any kind of background canbe successful in sales, because sales requires training. If you train yourteam and you empower them with the right tools and enablement, then reallyit's about their aptitude, their ability to have good conversations,their curiosity, their empathy and that doesn't require knowing the differencebetween an SD and account executive in the CS M. Those are all learnablethings. If you can learn, then you can learn, sat sale. So if you're out thereand you're discriminating against people that are trying to get intoSassil from other backgrounds, you're doing the wrong thing and you shouldstop it. The other thing that we said is people are people and again that'ssort of the point. There's this continuo start, which is that it? Iguess you also have people buy from people in the absence of just featuresand website. Buyers still want to have conversations and they still feel likethey are building a relationship with the specific human being. So rememberthat, as you venture out into the world of sales, I thought it was a reallygood conversation. So, thanks for listening before we go, of course, wealways want to think our sponsors first, if you're, not a member of the sale,sacker community, yet you're missing out and he sells professional- can joinas a member ask questions, get immediate answers and Sher experiencesjump in and start a discussion with more than seventeen thousandprofessionals that sales hachem. Of course we want to think our sponsors.Our sponsors this week are three. The first is out reach the leading salesengagement platform, pavilion, formerly called revenue collective. They justchanged their name on June. Twenty...

...second to Bazilli, learn more to unlockyour professional potential at Joint Pavilion Com and linked in Linkin. Intoday's a virtual selling environment. Make sure that you are taking advantageof all of the tools find new ways to connect with your Bius, virtually withLinton sales navigator go to business, DOT, Lington Com for last sales dsolutions. You can reach me Linkin forks last, the word in forks last, Samof Jacobs or email me Sama revenue collection. I am now going to kill thepeople that are doing the drilling in my building because it has been goingon for forty five minutes straight, while I'm trying to record a podcastand they're all I'm not really going to kill them, I'm just irritated anyway. Ihope you have a great day I'll talk to you next time.

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