The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 1 month ago

178. Why SDRs Should Report to Marketing w/ Amy Frampton

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode of the Sales Hacker Podcast, we have Amy Frampton , Head of Marketing at BambooHR and 15- year marketing veteran. Join us for a hilarious conversation about what’s changed in marketing lately, brushing shoulders with Marshawn Lynch, poaching SDRs and AEs from sales, and tips for employer branding.

What You’ll Learn 

- Why trust is integral to chiefs of staff

- Who sales development should report to (spoiler: it’s marketing)

- The importance of employer brand

- Being intentional about employee satisfaction

Show Agenda and Timestamps

About Amy Frampton & Bamboo HR [3:13]

Quick aside: What a chief of staff does [9:46]

Changes in marketing in the last 15 years [13:08]

Who should sales development report to? [15:20]

Employer branding & employee satisfaction [20:51]

Paying it forward: Shout-outs [26:48]

Sam’s Corner [29:00]

One two one: Three: Three: Everybody atSam Jacobs, welcome to the sale, sacer podcast Ed in the show we've got amyFrampton Amy's, the head of marketing at Bambou Char. We have a greatconversation, she's, a captivating person, she's super interested and gota great sense of himmer, and we talk about both the history of marketing. Wetalked about who sales development should report to. We talk about MarshanLynch, all of it. So it's a great conversation and I can't wait to getinto it before we get there. We've got three sponsors. The first is out reachoutrage. You know, they've been a sponsor for a long time since theinception and they've got a new website for to learn how outrage performs. Theact of outrage learn how the team follows up with every lead and recordtime. After virtual events learn how they turn leads into revenue. You canalso see how our runs account base plays, manages reps in so much moreusing their very own sales engagement platform. Everything backed up by datapull from out each process of some customer vase. When you're done, you'llbe able to do as well as they do had to average that I for slash on out reachto see what they've got going on. The shows also brought you by pavilion.Pavilion is the key to getting more out of your career. Our private membershipconnects you with a network of thousands of like minded peers andresources where you can tap into leadership, opportunities, training,ventory and other services made for high growth leaders like you. This falltake advantage of a huge host of new pavilion courses, including frontlinemanager, school sales, school sales, acceleration boot camp for SDRs, chiefcustomer officer, School Chief Marketing Officer, school and evenchief revenue officers. School take advantage of a pavilion membership.Leaders at every stage can get started to day at join. Pavilion finally werebrought to you by air call. Air Call is a cloud based voice platform thatintegrates seamlessly with popular productivity and helped us tools fromcalm monitoring and whispering integrations with your sirm and a realtime. An ALIC air call can elp turbo charge. Your sales reps putatively seta new standard for sales, productivity and performance by switching to a phonesystem. That's best friends with your C...

...rm. You can get twenty percent off yourfirst three months at air call at air call sales hacker, and I can tell youthat a pavilion we use our call. We love our call and we even hired our VPof marketing from air call. Er call is fantastic and now without further DUlistes. In my conversation with Amy Frampton, everybody at Sam Jacobs,welcome to the Sales Hacker podcast today on the show we've got AmyFrampton. Let me tell you a little bit about her she's, the head of marketingat an HR software company called bamboo HR prior to joining bamboo amy spentmore than fifteen years in technology and marketing leadership roles in theGreater Seattle area. Previously she was VP of Produc marketing and smartsheet, a leading orch management software company. Before that sheserved in marketing and leadership positions at Vulcan, the HoldingCompany founded by Microsoft, Co, founder Paul Allen, Hewlett PackardEnterprise and Microsoft. Amy. Welcome to the show thanks so much for havingme we're excited to have you, so we like to start with your baseball card,which basically gives you an opportunity to tell us a little bitmore about both your role and the company bamboo, because there's peopleout there that may not have heard of bamboo. So first, let's start there.What is bamboo age is the full name. Bamboo H R. is that the A S E R yeah?That's? And so what do you all doing? Tell us how you would define itcharacterize it give us the pitch absolutely so we're a SASS offering andwe've been around for almost fourteen years building. What we think is thebest hr software in the world for small and medium business, everything fromsourcing finding the right candidates to on boarding and then managing theemployee experience once folks come on board and so we're super passionateabout em play experience both at bamboo ith ar internally, but also in helpingour customers reach the same goals. So how big is bamboo, you know for an you,don't don't reveal anything confidential, but I do know whateveryou feel comfortable sharing with us, so that we can, in in terms of itsgrowth, sure yeah we're at just almost a thousand folks or cloud one hundredcompany growing super fast and doing it really year over year by building agreat product. We made a commitment at...

...the beginning of this year in the localnews here in Utah that we'd hire five hundred people by the end of the year,we're well on our way to that we're about half way through. So we expect tobe about twelve hundred twelve hundred and fifty before the clock turns to twothousand and twenty two and are those five hundred. Is it mostly in sales? Isit engineering is at all of the above yeah? It's all the above we're hiringsales like crazy. I have about a hundred and forty P folks, and thatincludes the sales development reps. they live in marketing here at bambooand obviously we're hiring a lot of SDRs and then our more traditionalmarketing and then a ton of engineers, because you know we're working onproduct every single day and and that investment needs to be big, so I thinkRHR team would would say all of the above when they look at the that makesa lot of sense. Let's, let's get into a little bit about your background. Iread a little bit about your bio, but tell us: How did you get to o where youare today? How did you originally get into marketing? Was this? You know yourgoal all along or like many people. Did you sort of stumble into it based onwhat was available and the opportunities of the time give us alittle bit about about your history. Sure absolutely, and it definitely wasa stumble. I mean a stumble that I'm so grateful for, but you know I went toschool in political science and history, so of course I'm in marketing right andI then went to work for that. I was passionate about politics and about theimportance of involvement in politics in college and high school really, andI went to work for the both the US House in the US Senate after college.So I worked at a by part is an institute, and then I worked as acongressional aid for about five and a half years and as I grew through thatand just loved it, it was Super Fun. I don't know how fun it would be now, butI'm on the outside now. So maybe I just don't you know, maybe I just don't seeit as much as I used to, but as I decided to go, you know inside acorporation, I was in Seattle in you, one thousand nine hundred and ninetyeight, so obviously microsofts growing...

...big. You know there was really noAmazon, yet at least no cloud offering for Amazon, but Tet was growing so bigand I wanted to go to a corporation and I thought a little bit about going inas a lobbyist or a you know, a legislative affair, as I should saykind of person, but I ended up getting recruited by a Communications Agencyand I'll never forget I, and this is a little bit embarrassing, but my dad wasin marketing and I went to his house and I got all of his college books onhow to be a marketer and had any communications, and I remember readingthem before I started this job, which I clearly totally looked out that theygave me because I was not a marketer or communications person and their bigclient was Nintendo. So I didn't want to mess it up and reading these booksand calling my dad and saying wait. Politics is marketing like I did notunderstand. We were in the same field and the ability to connect with peopleto hopefully motivate them and to spur an action is exactly the same premise.You know, and you could say well Gosh politics is, you know better or worsethan marketing, and we certainly all can have this debate. Both sides have asales team working for them at all times, but I loved it, and so I wentagency Gosh for six years loved it great clients, Microsoft, Intendo, safeco, which is now liberty, mutual and I love love loved it. And then I gotrecruited into Microsoft by one of my clients and from that point on, I wastech marketing and could have loved it more. So I was at Microsoft for anumber of years and then I got offered, I would say, a hard left or a hardright, I'm not trying to be political, because it's not but career change. Igot offered a chief of staff chop and I get asked about this a lot because youknow people say well, you know, do you need to grow your career in a straightline and how do you become successful and at least for me, a zig like linewas the way to go, because I just...

...always wanted to have impact and workwith fun, people and learn, and so I was then chief of staff at Hewlett,Packard, enterprise, open sack business and then at Vulcan for the CEO for fourand a half years, and so I really got to dive into operations and you knowwork with the sales teams, even more work with product teams even more and Iloved that and then I realized I was missing marketing. So I went back intomarketing at smart sheet and then on to Bambur that's a long story, but I thinkthat I think I'm old and also, I think it's important for people to know thatyou can take chances and do interesting things and it doesn't all have to be ina linear line. You know if ynd totally can be, but it doesn't have to be, andit's in the modern age it very very rarely is because there is no straightline because we're all changing jobs so often so we're going to use to be ableto Sig Zag. To your point, this is an aside. I want to dive into thequestions of how marketing is changed and what your perspectives on it are,particularly because you're running such a large str team. But what is thedefinition of the chief of Staff Job often times? People say that theChiefest duff can become the C O o, but the way it sometimes presented is quasiadministrative in such a way. That would it feels difficult for me toenvision that that person would have the the the credibility within theorganization to become the COO. What's your perspective on the job descriptionof the chief of staff? That's a great question and you know I get peoplecalling me still saying: Hey I've been offered a chief of staff. Does thismean I'm going to be an EA, or does this mean I'm going to be a businessmanager? What does this mean and what it means different things in every job,and it's all about a connection with your CEO or the exact that you're doingit with so I wish she a staff for a guy named bill health who was an opensource leader for years and an a tech leader in the Seattle area. I hadworked for him at other places as a...

...member of his marketing team and he andI had a close relationship, and so we had hivy trust. So I was able to go inand he would say, hey go, get this done or go. Do this research and talk to myleadership team and either make this happen or figure out how it couldhappen or figure out the best way to go, and so I had you know I had a front rowseat to both the I would say, the the birth and, frankly, death of open,stack at Hewlett, Packard and they're still doing some work in open stack butof the cloud separate cloud division certainly and working across. I wasworking with a jar on his behalf of finance. I got this opportunity to havekind of this like Meta Mba, you know and then to do the same thing at Vulcanfor the same person. I actually was supposed to go to a ws and you calledme, and he say I'm on to go work for Paul Allen and I looked at it and Ithought this is like working for freaking Willi Wonka, like we've gotthis seahawks and we've got building. You know all the south like union inSeattle and we're saving the elephants in the corral. Roofs like there's, noway I'm taking a standard job. If I get to do this, you know beast mode walksdown the hall Marshan walks down the hall. You know on a daily basis, you'relike holy Moly, so I went and did that instead, I said Aws, I'm sorry, I'msure it would have been a great job, I'm a big fan of Amazon wood services,but man. This was a. This was a fun thing, and so I really because of thattrust I was able to do things frankly way over my skis in terms ofexperience level, but I just I learned on the daily both from him and from thejob and I loved it. Well are you and are you still friends with MarshalLynch? You know I at skittles, like MarshanLak. I don't know that he call us like ff or anything, but I have you know,walked down the hall after him. I'm sure I'm sure he remembers it fondly.That's!...

Let me let me ask you a quite so. Firstof all, thank you so much for that explanation, because it really is it'sa question mark and I think to your point right. It depends a little bit onthe trust. If you've got that trust, then I would imagine the departmentheads that you're sort of issuing orders to or issuing direction to aremore likely to listen, Olim stronger request, exactly how do you thinkmarketings changed? You know since you got into it, you've been doing it for alittle while you're now running a modern marketing organization. What doyou think the key evolutions have been? The key advancements have been howthey've been impacted technology. What's your perspective on the lastfifteen years or so? Ah, for sure you know for me, and I think I don't thinkthis is revolutionary. I think most heads of marketing or marketing, justanyone in marketing would say that the use of data is so much more importantthan it used to be. It used to be, at least in my experience, a lot of let'sdo this fun thing. Let's get some attention, let's get some, at least interms of you know, Tech Marketing, let's go out there. I mean you kind ofthink of the earlom days with the puppet ads right like there's a lot ofjust let's just get some eyeballs and it will all work out and now certainlyyou know it smart sheet, and here it Bambro your parsing audiences andtrying to understand your customer and their engagement with your message inentirely new ways. I mean it's, you know with all of the analytic systemsthat we have and I don't want to say one or the other, but it's so importantand you're so much more connected to instantly to what's working and what'snot versus just let's go be fun and in creative and tell a great story. Ithink it's way people want things to land a lot closer to where they arethese days as a customer as an audience type and so that become it has become alot more important and then for me. I think it's become more and more moreimportant through my career for me to understand the product that I'm selling,that it's not just enough to be...

...creative or you know, have a great comsline, but like the reality of the product andtalking about that in a realistic way, I can remember once- and this was yearsago, but I think this is when my brain started to change this way. I used tobe reviewing things for my team and I would put in the comments put this inhuman language and send it back to me like no more but words, and I think Ithink it has gotten more grounded, at least in my experience, there's been alot of you know. I come from the sales background and there's a lot of I guessdebate you o whatever we want to call it. There's conversation around therole of sales, development in SDRs and there's a group of people that arestill highly highly activity kind of metric focused, you know, making surethe dials are there making sure you open enough sequences or cadences orwhatever you want to call it. That you're flooding the air way so to speakwith effort generated largely by humans and then there's another point of view.Maybe that there's so much inundation that buyers are suffering from becauseof the growth of sales development that it's really much more about a smaller,more curated list of you can call it a company's marketing, but just morepersonalized, more focused outrage. That is really highly highly customized.Where do you fall out on that spectrum, because both are probably useful atdifferent times yeah? They both are, and so you know as we look at how howwe're leading our marketing in the breadth, which is kind of that. Youknow, numbers game that you're talking about. We certainly have all thecadences and all of those sorts of things, but the reason that we put SDRsin the marketing team- and we just did this gosh- maybe eight or nine monthsago, so they they've been with me about that long is because, even if you'rejust going through the standard cadences having a connection to the content thatwas taken in by your audience by the person, they're calling or emailing andunderstanding how they engaged with...

...what marketing is doing, to get to theSDR and being able to have a conversation with them. That's reallyabout what they did and not just what like person x could do, because you know,because it's a cadence that is super important to us, and so, if they get acall from one of our SDRs. Our hope is that that SDR really understands whythey interacted how they interacted and why it might be important so that wethen can help them further. And so there certainly is that breadth motion.I think that connectivity is really important and then I also think youhave to run that kind of targeted Ab m sort of motion to help people be metwhere they are to speak in kind of marketing. Lingo we target SBS, and soyou know when I was at smart sheet. Certainly we were doing ab. That wasmuch more to the one. You know as we work with with SANBE. Here we tend tosay in a vertical or in a type. How can we serve this certain audience? So it'sa little bit different enterprise to SB, but I just think they're both superimportant. That's why we made the connection between us, drs andmarketing is because when they get a first call from us, we want that personcalling them to have an understanding of of why they're interacting with us inthe first place, was their concern. I mean this is the constant debate wherestr should report to there's some people. That even say, Hey, let'screate a third department, that's called the man generation and it can bethe bridge between marketing and sales was their consternation from the salesteam. Hey the SDRs want to become a es one day, and you know there's not goinga creer path for them through marketing. That's typically the common objectionabout training and development totally, and so we have. It totally is thecommon objection I should say, but we didn't have that issue here. We werereally closely so we have the sales leadership. Jud Smith is my peer, andthen we have an expansion sales which is it additional products once folks orcustomers. We all work really closely,...

...because all of us have folks that comein and either an SR level, maybe an eighty one level or you know our firstlevel of a CANIAC or maybe come in through support and expansion andcustomer experience, all of which that want pathways through the company- andso in fact just today I was you know to Sdrs- are interested in working over incustomer experience and we were all in a chat about it. Yep. Let's do that andso we're pretty connected in terms of that experience- and I was asked Hey,let's make sure that we don't lose that SDR to ate experience, but because it'snot singular with US- it's not just SDR at, but it's also SDR to expansion. Ihave a lot of SDRs that want to come to traditional marketing they're alreadyin marketing, but you know traditional marketing roles, maybe they've justgraduated from school or getting back into the workforce. They do the SRthing for eighteen months and they think yeah. I want to go over and workin like demand Gen on my team or something else. So we try really hardto make that connection. I could see how it would be easy to break down, andI I don't know what the right word ispushed probably pretty hard to understand where people are going andwhy and I think the rest of the team just to yeah. I think that's a greatpoint that it's not just about straaeit a lot and I'm seeing this with my owncompany lots of folks start off and junior sales roles and end up workingin marketing working in product working in product marketing. So there's a lotof paths for people that have had so many conversations with the customer.For my perspective, exactly and honestly, the best marketers havetalked to the most customers right, and so you know I want my marketers, nomatter what level they're out talking to customers all the freaking time, andso I can get an SR or an AE. You know to come over and be in marketing withme. That's that's all upside I'll recruit those folks all all freakingday awesome, don't know the sale Seder. I do that. I won't say a Word Mums. The wordwether not listening Ye. So, sir,...

...there's another part of marketing thatI know your company specifically is focused on and that's kind of, employer,branding, employer, marketing, yea and and there's a lot of that is an area ofmarketing that a lot of CEOS still don't have a good hold on, and theystill invest completely in customer marketing, without realizing thatthere's a whole life cycle and that employer marketing and customermarketing are often interwoven because of the fact that your employers aretalking to customers all the time. Talk about why employer brand is such a keydifferentiator from a marketing perspective. Sure absolutely, and Ithink, there's there's kind of two ways to think about it. One is kind of a gutqualitative. You know what I think. If you sit down and think about it makessense and then there you know there is data to back it up. Since I talkedabout data earlier happier, employees, employees that areexcited about what they're doing and where they work, do better work. I'lltalk about the data a little bit on that in a second, but I mean, I thinkwe all can kind of say. Well, yeah, when I'm like, when I'm more into whatI'm doing, I'm better at it, because I'm more engaged, I play my moreattention. I probably push harder and because I care more right- and so we dothat, you know culture strategy for breakfast. You know in terms of we arebuilding a company here at at bamboo, where we want people to be excitedabout what we're doing, and it doesn't mean you know all the free lunches andlots of lots of Ping Pong and one are those balls where you stand in them andthen you roll around and hit each other. We don't do a lot of that kind of stuff.It's not common enough that I can instantly think of the now. I didn'tonce it and I work think it like semo wrestling, a yeah, you roll yeah, it'snot it's fun, but but it's about you know how do you create a culture thatis living the values that that you lay out? I've never been at a place thatlives its values and I've been at some wonderful companies March. He was awonderful company, but the values here...

...at bamboo are embedded and having people feel like they're, a partof what they're doing at what we're doing at bamboo and that we're growingthis together and that we're building together. I think people do better workwhen they feel that way, and it doesn't mean you don't hold them accountable,it doesn't it's not Disneyland Right. Birds aren't landing on our fingers andpeople are whistling and squirrels run up and dress them in the morning oranything. But it means that, like we respect each other and we care and nomatter what role you're in that that holds true, and that means, in myopinion, that we're better at our jobs, you know- and there is you can say,like I know, there's a study that was done. That said, for every point onglass door that you got raised, customer sat goes up like one and ahalf points, and so you start to see the kind of I think what a lot of usfeel instinctual about like well yeah. If I'm happier, I do better work, itstarts to show an actual numbers that you get, that MPs or customer satnumber to raise, and so that's that's kind of the senta part or quality topart on that kind of more external part. We live in a world in which you can'thide a bad culture for a long and we've seen companies I mean I've hadcompanies as customers at some of these tech companies that have gone throughthis huge they're, the Unicorn they're the thing of the day. Nobody can beat them and it doesn'ttake long if their culture isn't good and if their employees aren't feelinglike they're being treated in a humane and respectful way for that just toblow freaking up right and so with between glass store and all the othertransparency tools that we have now, there's just no way to get around itand customers. Because of that transparency, and I think because weall want to support things where you know where people are happy and theculture is good, are voting with their their dollars. People just are in a waythat they maybe couldn't before,...

...because it wasn't as transparent solike I said, I think, if there's an innate thing and then I think, there'sa transparency thing where it just matters and if people are unhappy tocompany, not only does it show in their work, it is out on the Internet prettydaying fast. Let's assume people are happy. What is a if I'm a CEO or I'm aVP marketing? What how do I start working on the employer brand? How do Iintentionally build the employer brand to reflect? Hopefully what is happyemployees absolutely so you know I think a lot of it is listening, and soyou know whether it's identifying what your values are as a company- and youknow, lots of companies have values, but are they really building them fromreality? It's kind of like building from the reality of your product aswell like your employee brand, has to be based on reality and so a lot a lotof listening about how things are going and building that brand together andyou know, different employee brands can be good but different n. You know whatI mean you can have a brand. That is, you know we work a ton, but we thinkit's worth it because of x, or you know we really look at work, life,integration or whatever it is pulling out. What employes really areloving and then creating your employee brand based on that reality means itwill actually land, and so you know, we constantly in factwe're just about to kick off again talking to employees in saying and wedo MPs you know which we have in our product twice a year, so we're gettingactive feedback from everything on one and one's to anonymous surveys all thetime, but we're also going back and saying: okay, who are we now that werea thousand people and how do we make sure that we consistently talk aboutour brambles and turnln externally we're just about to that off because,as you grow, you got to make sure that you continue to be aligned with withwhat you're utilizing is your brand so important? Amy, it's been, it's been anawesome having you on the show, one of the things that we do right at the endis we want to pay it forward a little...

...bit. We want to figure out. Who areyour influences? What books do you think are really really important if Iwant to become you know ahead of marketing for an incredible companylike bamboo, who are the mentors that have influenced you along the way itreally as people or ideas that have really had a strong impact on you thatyou think we should know about when I frame like that. What comes to mind foryou? Oh Gosh, so many things. So I am a history nerd and I still read likeBritish history, about Winston Churchill and I N T N is that's whatI'm reading right now the splendid in the vial book so good- and you know Ido think by learning how historical figures have managed crisis, whetherthey're, not I mean when in church like us, was a little bit in marketing right,but that wasn't his main Gig and learning about that. I think is alwayshelpful, but bill health. The man that I worked for for so long has been ahuge mentor to me. He taught me about the importance of products in marketingwhich is huge and then in terms of some business books. I Love Atomic Habits,I'm rereading it right now that idea of of little things that have big resultsand I've seen executives execute on that in terms of small changes, big bigresults and- and I love that and I'm a huge- and I know this you know isprobably like everyone says this, but the growth mindset is big and satiatalks about that at Microsoft, but I think we all all need to look at thatbook. I would say: read it: read it annually and understand the differencein what you can do with a growth mindset. Awesome Amy. If folks want toreach out to maybe they're inspired, maybe they want to dig in a little biton some of the things that you said. Maybe they want to argue, that's fine.I can take it yeah, exactly your husband's listening and he's exactly.What's your preferred method of communication, how should people herabsolutely well, I'm a Frampton at Bembo, a Char Com, and I would love tohear from folks, even if they disagree...

...and especially if they disagree, that'sthe fun part. Awesome amy, it's been fantastic, having you as a guest on theshow we're going to talk to on Friday for Friday fundamentals. I look forwardto it thanks so much. Thank you. Everybody, Sam Jacobs, greatconversation with Amy Frampton she's, led an incredible life. We talked to alot about a lot of things. First of all, we talked about. What's the kid ofsuccess, when your chief is staff, not a job that all of us have consideredtrust trust between you and the person that you are chief of staffing, becauseif you don't have trust, then you can't drive influence. You can't drive outcomes with the organization, but if you do, you can serve as the extension ofthe CEO, the Clo and, as a consequence, get as she said, sort of a Meta m PA.So that's really interesting career path and I think one that's growing invirgin, because we're hearing more and more about it. Second thing: We talkedabout our about the second thing we talked about, but I'm not sure whatover it was, but sales development who should they report to here's? The pointthat I took from it everybody's always saying: Oh sales development wants tobecome account executives. We got to make sure that the report, sales andI'll tell you from first ten experience. I'll tell you from from Amy's perspective. There are manymore paths for people that have cut of conversations with customers all dayand simply becoming an Aconteus, and I think the default assumption that everySR wants to become an AE is not true and I think that's actually quiteliberating. I think you can build that into the professional developmentcareer path and that you have for SDRs. If you make it abundantly clear thatproducts a career path, customer success or expansions a career path.Sales is a career path, product itself, marketing as a career path. So just theidea that, in a fast growing company, new opportunities abound not just insales but across the organization and as people join the sale, DevelopmentOrganization, and maybe I should be called customer development, who knowsthey have many more choices, and that means that maybe the SR tin can reportto marketing or sales or some other some other team, and I've always saidthat you know the answer to that question, for me is whoever the bestmanager is. You know the maybe sometimes the best manager is themarketer, and so I, as the consequence...

...of that, maybe it makes sense for USyears for Fort a marketing, so I thought it was great conversationreally enjoyed talking about it. Of course, the final thing we talked aboutwas just the importance of the employer brand. I worked at the mess I can. Ican underscore that it's all interconnected, I think you know one ofthe things that she talks about is just this idea that people want to buy fromplaces where they know that those companies treat the employees well, andI think that that's really true and it's all it's all synergistic right.One point in improvement and employee satisfaction translates to one point,five points in improvement in that promoter, score or customersatisfaction. So it's something that everybody has to be thinking about. Ifyou don't know what your employer brand is, you best commence an exercise todiscover it, because it's out there, whether you, whether you do that or not-and you want to be more intentional about controlling it, creating itspreading the message around it. So great conversation. We want to thankour sponsors before we go. The first is outreach check out how out reached usout Ridge head on over the outreach study, a Ford slash on out reach to seewhat they've got going on. Second, he is pavilion. Take a look at our coursecatalogue at join pavillion Com and figure out. If you want to take salesschool to become announcest account executive, if you want to takefrontline manager school, to learn how to lead great teams or, if you're readyto hop to the cease, take chief customer officer Chief MarketingOfficer O for Avenue Officer School and take that next step in your executivecareer, so unlock your professional potential at joint pavilion find theair call set a new standard for sales proactively and performance byswitching to a phone system. That's best friends with your crum get twentypercent off. That's twenty percent off your first three months at air. Call atEr call sales atoro thanks again for listening. If you haven't given us fivestarts, please do that heading over the itunes ore at the spotify star, give usfive tunes. If you haven't joined the sales hacker community at go to salesaccom over twenty thousand professionals, just like you sharingexperiences sharing insides, it's amazing. If you want to get in touchwith me, you can you can mail me Sandman, pavillion, I'll talk to younext time.

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