The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 4 months ago

178. Why SDRs Should Report to Marketing w/ Amy Frampton


In this episode of the Sales Hacker Podcast, we have Amy Frampton , Head of Marketing at BambooHR and 15- year marketing veteran. Join us for a hilarious conversation about what’s changed in marketing lately, brushing shoulders with Marshawn Lynch, poaching SDRs and AEs from sales, and tips for employer branding.

What You’ll Learn 

- Why trust is integral to chiefs of staff

- Who sales development should report to (spoiler: it’s marketing)

- The importance of employer brand

- Being intentional about employee satisfaction

Show Agenda and Timestamps

About Amy Frampton & Bamboo HR [3:13]

Quick aside: What a chief of staff does [9:46]

Changes in marketing in the last 15 years [13:08]

Who should sales development report to? [15:20]

Employer branding & employee satisfaction [20:51]

Paying it forward: Shout-outs [26:48]

Sam’s Corner [29:00]

One, two, one, three, three, everybody, as Sam Jacobs, welcome to the salesacer podcasted. Inthe show we've got Amy Frampton, AMY's ahead of marketing at bamboo HR. We have a great conversation. She's a captivating person. She's super interesting, got a great sense to humor and we talked about both the history andmarketing. We talked about who sales development should report to, we talked aboutmarshawn Lynch, all of it. So it's a great conversation and I can'twait to get into it. Before we get there, we've got three sponsors. The first is outreach. Outreach, you know, they've been a sponsorfor a long time, since the inception, and they've got a new website forto learn how outreach performs the act of outreach. Learn how the teamfollows up with every lead in record time after virtual events. Learn how theyturn leads into revenue. You can also see how out rich runs account basedplays, manages reps and so much more using their very own sales engagement platform, everything backed up by data pulled from outreach processes and customer base. Whenyou're done, you'll be able to do it as well as they do.Had to our reach out IO, fords on outreach, to see what they'vegot going on. The show is also brought to you by pavilion. Pavilionis the key to getting more out of your career. Our private membership connectsyou with a network of thousands of like minded peers and resources where you cantap into leadership opportunities, training, mentoring and other services made for high growthleaders like you. This fall, take advantage of a huge host of newpavilion courses, including frontline manager school, Sales School, Sales Acceleration boot campfor STRs, chief Customer Officers School, Chief Marketing Officer School and even chiefRevenue Officers School. Take advantage of a pavilion membership leaders at every stage.You can get started today at joined pavilioncom. Finally, we're brought to you byair call. Air Call is a cloud based voice platform that integrates seamlesslywith popular productivity and helped us. Tools from call monitoring and whispering, integrationswith your crm and realtime analytics are call can help turbo charge your sales reps. portativity set a new standard for sales productivity and performance by switching to aphone system that's best friends with your crm.

You can get twenty percent off yourfirst three months at air call. At Air Call Sales Hackercom and Ican tell you that at pavilion we use Air Call, we love air calland we even hired our VP of marketing from air call. Air Call isfantastic. And now, without further do litzls in my conversation with Amy Frampton. Hey everybody, as Sam Jacobs, welcome to the sales hacker podcast.Today in the show we've got Amy Frampton. Let me tell you a little bitabout her. She's the head of marketing add an HR software company calledbamboo HR. Prior to joining bamboo, amy spent more than fifteen years intechnology and marketing leadership roles in the Greater Seattle area. Previously, she wasVP of product marketing at smartsheet, a leading work management software company. Beforethat, she served in marketing and leadership positions at Vulcan, the Holding Companyfounded by Microsoft Co founder Paul Allen Hewlett Packard Enterprise and Microsoft. Amy,welcome to the show. Thanks so much for having me. We're excited tohave you. So we like to start with your baseball card, which basicallygives you an opportunity to to tell us a little bit more about both yourrole and the company bamboo, because there's people out there that may not haveheard of bamboo. So first let's start there. What is bamboo h isthe full name bamboo HR? Is that the right way to say and wewach are. Yeah, that's and so what do y'all do it? Tellus how you would define it, characterize it, give us the pitch.Absolutely so. We're a SASS offering and we've been around for almost fourteen yearsbuilding what we think is the best hr software in the world for small andmedium business, everything from sourcing, finding the right candidates to on boarding andthen managing the employee experience once folks come on board, and so we're superpassionate about employee experience, both at bamboo hr internally, but also in helpingour customers reach the same goals. So how big is bamboo? You knowfor an you don't. Don't reveal anything confidential, but I don't know.Whatever your feel comfortable sharing with us so that we can cry. In termsof its growth, sure, yeah, we're at just almost a thousand folks. We're cloud one hundred. Company growing super fast and doing it really yearover year by building a great product.

We made a commitment at the beginningof this year in the local news here in Utah that we'd hire five hundredpeople by the end of the year. We're well on our way to that. We're about halfway through, so we expect to be about one hundred,twelve hundred and fifty before the clock turns to two thousand and twenty two.And are those five hundred? Is it mostly in sales? Is it engineering? Is it all of the above? It's all the above. We're hiringsales like crazy. I have about a hundred and forty folks and that includesthe Sales Development Reps. they live in marketing here at bamboo and obviously we'rehiring a lot of SDRs and then our more traditional marketing and then a tonof engineers because you know, we're working on product every single day and andthat investment needs to be big. So I think our HR team would wouldsay all of the above when they look at thet makes a lot of sense. Yes, let's get into a little bit about your background. I reada little bit about your bio, but tell us how did you get towhhere you are today. How did you originally get into marketing? Was this, you know, your goal all along or, like many people, didyou sort of stumble into it based on what was available and the opportunities ofthe time? Give us a little bit about you, about your history.Sure, absolutely, and it definitely was a stumble. I mean a stumblethat I'm so grateful for. But you know, I went to school inpolitical science and history, so of course I'm in marketing right and I thenwent to work for that. I was passionate about politics and about the importanceof involvement in politics in college and high school really, and I went towork for the both of US House in the US Senate after college. SoI worked at a bipartisan institute and then I worked as a congressional aid forabout five and a half years and as I grew through that and just lovedit, it was Super Fun. I don't know how fun it would benow, but I'm on the outside now, so maybe I just don't you know, maybe I just don't see as much as I used to. Butas I decided to go, you know, inside a corporation. I was inSeattle in you know, one thousand nine hundred and ninety eight. Soobviously Microsoft growing big. You know,...

...there was really no Amazon yet,at least no cloud offering for Amazon, but tech was growing so big andI wanted to go to a corporation and and I thought a little bit aboutgoing in as a lobbyists or a, you know, a legislative affairs,I should say, kind of person. But I ended up getting recruited bya Communications Agency and I'll never forget I and this is a little bit embarrassing, but my dad was in marketing and I went to his house and Igot all of his college books on how to be a marketer and having todo communications, and I remember reading them before I started this job, whichI clearly totally looked out that they gave me because I was not a marketeror communications person and their big client was Nintendo, so I didn't want tomess it up, and reading these books and calling my dad and saying,wait, politics is marketing, like I did not understand. We were inthe same field and the ability to connect with people, to hopefully motivate themand to spur and action is exactly the same premise, you know, andyou could say, well, Gosh, politics is, you know, betteror worse than marketing, and we certainly all could have this debate. Bothsides have a sales team working for them at all times. But I lovedit and so I went agency Gosh for six years. Loved it. GreatClients, Microsoft, Nintendo, Safeco, which is now liberty mutual, andI love of loved it. And then I got recruited into Microsoft by oneof my clients and from that point on I was tech marketing and couldn't haveloved it more. So I was at Microsoft for a number of years andthen I got offered I would say a hard left or a hard right.I'm not trying to be political, because it's not, but career change.I got offered a chiefest staff job, and I get asked about this alot because, you know, people say, well, you know, do youneed to grow your career in a straight line and how do you becomesuccessful? And at least for me, as Zigzag line was the way togo, because I just always wanted to...

...have impact and work with fun peopleand learn. And so I was then chief of staff at Hewlett Packard enterpriseopen stack business, and then a vulcan for the CEO for four and ahalf years and so I really got to dive into operations and, you know, work with the sales teams even more, work with product teams even more,and I loved that. And then I realized I was missing marketing,so I went back to into marketing Adam smart sheet and then on to bambooHR. That's a long story, but I think that I think I'm oldand also I think it's important for people to know that you can take chancesand do interesting things and it doesn't all have to be in a linear line. You know, it can be, totally can be, but it doesn'thave to be, and it's in the modern age. It very, veryrarely is, because there is no straight line because we're all changing jobs sooften. So we're going to us to be able to ZIG ZAG. Toyour point, this is a an aside. I want to dive into the questionsof how marketing is changed and what your perspectives on it are, particularbecause you're running such a large Dr Team. But what is the definition of theChief of staff job? Oftentimes people say that the chiefest staff can becomethe COO, but the way it's sometimes presented is quasi administrative. In sucha way that it feels difficult for me to envision that that person would havethe the the credibility within the organization to become the CEO. What's your perspectiveon the job description of the chief of staff? That's a great question andyou know, I get people calling me still saying hey, I've been offereda chief of staff. Does this mean I'm going to be an EA ordoes this mean I'm going to be a business manager? What does this meanand what it means different things in every job and it's all about a connectionwith your CEO or the exact that you're doing it with. So I waschief of staff for a guy named Bill Health, who is an open sourceleader for years and and a tech leader in the Seattle area. I hadworked for him at other places as a...

...member of his marketing team and heand I had a close relationship and is so we had a heavy trust.So I was able to go in and he would say, Hey, goget this done and or go do this research and talk to my leadership teamand either make this happen or figure out how it could happen or figure outthe best way to go. And so I had, you know, Ihad a front row seats to both the I would say the the birth and, frankly death of open stack at Hewlett Packard, and they're still doing somework in open stack, but of the clouds, separate cloud division certainly,and working across. I was working with HR on his behalf of finance.I got this opportunity to have kind of this like met at Mba, youknow, and then to do the same thing at Vulcan for the same person. I actually was supposed to go to Awsh and he called me and hesay I'm going to work for Paul Allen. And I looked at it and Ithought this is like working for freaking Willy Wonka, like we've got thisseahawks and we've got building, you know, all of south, like union inSeattle, and we're saving the elephants in the coral reefs. Like there'sno way I'm taking a standard job if I get to do this. Youknow, beast moode walks down the hall, marshawn walks down the hall, youknow, on a daily basis. You're like holy Moli. So Iwent and did that instead. I say a D ws. I'm sorry,I'm sure it would have been a great job. I'm a big Fan ofAmazon web services, but man, this was a this was a fun thing, and so I really because of that trust, I was able to dothings, frankly, way over my skis in terms of experience level, butI just I learned on the daily both from him and from the job,and I loved it. Well, are you and are you still friends withMarshall Lunch? You know, I eat skittles like marshawn letting. Yeah,I don't know that he'd call us like bff s or anything, but Ihave, you know, walk down the hall after him. I'm sure.I'm sure he remembers it fondly. That's...

...let me. Let me ask youa question. So, first of all, thank you so much for that explanation, because it really is. It's it's a question mark and I thinkto your point right, it depends a little bit on the trust. Ifyou've got that trust, then I would imagine the department heads that you're sortof issuing orders to or issuing direction to are more likely to listen. I'mstrong a request. Exactly. How do you think marketings changed? You know, since you got into it, you've been doing it for a little while. You're now running a modern marketing organization. What do you think the key evolutionshave been, the key advancements have been? How they've been impacted technology? What's your perspective on the last fifteen years or so? Yeah, forsure, you know, for me and I think, I don't think thisis revolutionary. I think most heads of marketing or marketing, just anyone inmarketing, would say that the use of data is so much more important thanit used to be. It used to be, at least in my experience, a lot of let's do this fun thing, let's get some attention,let's get some at least in terms of, you know, Tech Marketing. Let'sgo out there. I mean you kind of think of the earlycom dayswith the puppet ads right like there's a lot of just let's just get someeyeballs and it will all work out. And now, certainly, you knowat smartsheet and hear it bamboo hr your parsing audiences and trying to understand yourcustomer and their engagement with your message in entirely new ways. I mean it'sit's, you know, with all of the analytic systems that we have,and I don't want to say one or the other, but it's so importantand you're so much more connected to instantly to what's working and what's not,versus just let's go be fun and in creative and tell a great story.I think it's way people want things to land a lot closer to where theyare these days as a customer or as an audience type, and so thatbecome has become a lot more important. And then for me, I thinkit's become more important, more important through my career for me to understand theproduct that I'm selling, that it's not...

...just enough to be creative or,you know, have a great comms line, but like the reality of the productand talking about that in a realistic way. I can remember once,and this was years ago, but I think this is when my brain startedto change this way. I used to be reviewing things from my team andI would put in the comments, put this in human language and send itback to me like no more buzz words, and I think I think it hasgotten more grounded, at least in my experience. There's been a lotof you know, I come from the sales background and there's a lot ofguests debate you whatever we want to call it. There's conversation around the roleof sales development and strs and there's a group of people that are still highly, highly activity, kind of metric focused, you know, making sure the dialsare there and making sure you open enough sequences or cadences or whatever youwant to call it, that you're flooding the airway, so to speak,with effort generated largely by humans. And then there's another point of view,maybe that there's so much inundation that buyers are suffering from because of the growthof sales development that it's really much more about a smaller, more curated listof you can call it a companies marketing, but just more personalized, more focusedoutreach that is really highly, highly customized. Where do you fall outon that spectrum, because both are probably useful at different times. Yeah,they both are. And so, you know, as we look at howhow we're leading our marketing in the breadth, which is kind of that you know, numbers game that you're talking about, we certainly have all the cadences andall of those sorts of things. But the reason that we put SDRsin the marketing team and we just did this, gosh, maybe eight ornine months ago, so they've they've been with me about that long. IsBecause, even if you're just going through the standard cadences, having a connectionto the content that was taken in by your audience, by the person they'recalling or emailing, and understanding how they engaged with what marketing is doing toget to the SDR and being able to...

...have a conversation with them that's reallyabout what they did and not just what like person x could do, because, you know, because it's a cadence that is super important to us.And so if they get a call from one of our SDRS, our hopeis that that SDR really understands why they interacted, how they interacted and whyit might be important so that we then can help them further. And sothere certainly is that breadth motion. I think that connectivity is really important.And then I also think you have to run that kind of targeted ABM sortof motion to help people be met where they are, to speak in kindof a marketing lingo, we target SMB's and so you know, when Iwas at smart sheet, certainly we were doing abm. That was much moreto the one. You know, as we work with with SMB's. Herewe tend to say in a vertical or in a type how can we servethis certain audience? So it's a little bit different enterprise to smb but Ijust think they're both super important. That's why we made the connection between Sdrsand marketing, is because when they get a first call from us, wewant that person calling them to have an understanding of of why they're interacting withus in the first place. was there concern, I mean, this isthe constant debate where SDR should report to. There's some people that even say,Hey, let's create a third department. That's called demand generation and it canbe the bridge between marketing and sales. was there consternation from the sales team? Hey, the SDRs want to become a e's one day and youknow there's not got a career path for them through marketing. That's typically thecommon objection about training and development. Totally, and so we have it totally.Is the the common objection, I should say. But we didn't havethat issue here. We work really closely. So we have the sales leadership,Jet Smith is my peer, and then we have an expansion sales,which is it additional products once folks are customers. We all work really closelybecause all of us have folks that come... at either an str level,maybe an a one level, are, you know, our first level ofaccount exact, or maybe coming through support and expansion and customer experience, allof which that want pathways to the company. And so, in fact, justtoday I was, you know, to SDRs are interested in working overand in customer experience and we were all on a chat about it. Yetlet's do that. And so we're pretty connected in terms of that experience andI was asked, Hey, let's make sure that we don't lose that SDRto a experience. But because it's not singular with us, it's not justsdrt A, but it's also SDR to expansion. I have a lot ofSDRs that want to come to traditional marketing. They're already in marketing, but youknow, traditional marketing roles. Maybe they've just graduate, waited from schoolor getting back into the workforce. They do the str thing for eighteen monthsand they think, yeah, I want to go over and work in likedemand Jen on my team or something else. So we try really hard to makethat connection. I could see how it'd be easy to break down,and I I don't know what the right word is, pushed, probably prettyhard to understand where people are going and why and and I think the restof the team just too. Yeah, I think that's a great point,that it's not just about U. SDR to that a lot, and I'mseeing this with my own company. Lots of folks start off and junior salesrolls and end up working in marketing, working in product, working in productmarketing. So there's a lot of paths for people that have had so manyconversations with the customer. From my perspective, exactly and honestly, the best marketershave talked to the most customers, right. And so you know,I want my marketers, no matter what level they're up, talking to customersall the freaking time. And so if I can get an SDR or anAE, you know, to come over and be in marketing with me,that's that's all upside. I'll recruit those folks all freaking day. Awesome.Go tell the sales eater. I tell that I won't say or MOM's theword. They're not listening. So sure...

...there's another part of marketing that Iknow your company specifically is focused on, and that's kind of employer branding,employer marketing. Yep, and and there's a lot of that is an areaof marketing that a lot of CEOS still don't have a good hold on andthey're still invest completely in customer marketing without realizing that there's a whole lifesite goaland that employer marketing and customer marketing are often interwoven because of the fact thatyour employees are talking to customers all the time. Talk about why employer brandis such a key differentiator from a marketing perspective. Sure, absolutely, andI think there's they're just kind of two ways to think about it. Oneis kind of the guts qualitative, you know what I think, if yousit down and think about it makes sense. And then there you know there isdata to back it up, since I talked about data earlier. Happieremployees, employees that are excited about what they're doing and where they work,do better work. I'll talk about the data a little bit on that ina second, but I mean I think we all can kind of say,well, yeah, when I'm like when I'm more into what I'm doing,I'm better at it. Because I'm more engaged, I play more attention,I probably push harder and because I care more. Right, and so wedo that. You know, culture eat strategy for breakfast. You know,in terms of we are building a company here at at bamboo, where wewant people to be excited about what we're doing. And it doesn't mean,you know, all the free lunches and and lots of lots of Ping Pongand what are those balls where you stand in them and then you roll aroundand hit each other? You do a lot of that kind of stuff andit's not common enough that I can instantly think of the now I did onceat a work thing. It's like SMO wrestling one and you roll. Yeah, it's not. It's fun, but but it's about you know, howdo you create a culture that is living the values that that you lay out? I've never been at a place that lives its values and I've been atsome wonderful company, smarts, she was...

...a wonderful company, but the valueshere at bamboo are embedded and having people feel like they're a part of whatthey're doing, at what we're doing at bamboo, and that we're growing thistogether and that we're building together. I think people do better work when theyfeel that way and it doesn't mean you don't hold them accountable. It doesn't. It's not Disneyland Right, birds aren't landing on our fingers and people arewhistling and squirrels run up and dressed in the morning or anything, but itmeans that, like, we respect each other and we care and no matterwhat role you're in, that that holds true and that means, in myopinion, that we're better at our jobs. You know, and there is youcan say, like I know there's a study that was done that saidfor every point on glass door that you got raised, customer sat goes uplike one and a half points. And so you start to see the kindof, I think, what a lot of us feel instinctual about, likewell, yeah, if I'm happier, I do better work. It startsto show an actual numbers that you get, that MPs or customer sat number toraise, and so that's that's kind of the instinctual part, or qualitativepart. On the kind of more external part, we live in a worldin which you can't hide a bad culture for long and we've seen companies,I mean I've had companies as kind of customers. At some of these techcompanies that have gone through this huge there the Unicorn, there the thing ofthe day. Nobody can beat them, and it doesn't take long if theirculture isn't good and if their employees aren't feeling like they're being treated in ahumane and respectful way, for that just to blow freaking up right. Andso with between glass door and and all the other transparency tools that we havenow, there's just no way to get around it. And customers, becauseof that transparency, and I think because we all want to support things whereyou know, where people are happy in the culture is good, are votingwith their their dollars. People just are in a way that they maybe couldn'tbefore because it wasn't as transparent. So,... I said, I think there'san innate thing and I think there's a transparency thing where it just mattersand if people are unhappy to company, not only does it show in theirwork, it is out on the Internet Pretty Dang fast. Let's assume peopleare happy. What is a if I'm a CEO or I'm a VPM marketing, what how do I start working on the employer brand? How do Iintentionally build the employer brand to reflect, hopefully, what is happy employees.Absolutely so, you know, I think a lot of it is listening andso, you know, whether it's identifying what your values are as a company. And you know lots of companies have values, but are they really buildingthem from reality? It's kind of like building from the reality of your productas well, like your employee brand has to be based on reality. Andso a lot, a lot of listening about how things are going and buildingthat brand together. And you know, different employee brands can be good butdifferent. You know what I mean. You can have a brand that isyou know, well, we work a ton, but we think it's worthit because of x or you know, we really look at work life integrationor whatever it is, pulling out what employees really are loving and then creatingyour employee brand based on that reality means it will actually land. And soyou know, we constantly, in fact we're just about to kick off again, talking to employees and saying and we do the MPs, you know,which we have in our product twice a year. So we're getting active feedbackfrom everything on one on ones, two anonymous surveys all the time, butwe're also going back and saying, okay, who are we now that we're athousand people, and how do we make sure that we consistently talk aboutour brand, both internally and externally? We're just about to kick that off, because as you grow, you got to make sure that you continue tobe aligned with with what you're utilizing as your brand. So important, Abe, it's been. It's been an awesome having you on the show. Oneof the things that we do right at the end is we want to payit forward a little bit. We want... figure out who are your influences. What books do you think are really really important if I want to become, you know, ahead of marketing for incredible company like bamboo? who werethe mentors that have influenced you along the way? It really is people orideas that have really had a strong impact on you that you think we shouldknow about? When I framely like that, what comes to mind for you?Oh Gosh, so many things. So I am a history nerd andI still read like British history about Winston Churchhill and the S. that's whatI'm reading right now, the splendid in the vile book, so good andyou know, I do think by learning how historical figures have managed crisis,whether they're not. I mean, was in church like us, was alittle bit in marketing, right, but he that wasn't his main Gig andlearning about that, I think, is always helpful. But Bill Hill,the man that I worked for for so long, has been a huge mentorto me. He taught me about the importance of product in marketing, whichis huge. And then, in terms of some business books, I loveatomic habits. I'm rereading it right now. That idea of little things that havebig results and I've seen executives execute on that in terms of small changes, big, big results and and I love that. And I'm a hugeand I know this you know is probably like everyone says this, but thegrowth mindset is big and satia talks about that at Microsoft. But I thinkwe all all need to look at that book. I would say read it, read it annually and understand the difference and what you can do with agrowth mindset. Awesome, Amy, if folks want to reach out to you, maybe they're inspired, maybe they want to dig in a little bit onsome of the things that you said. They want to argue that's fine,I can take it. Yeah, exactly. Your husband's listening and he's exactly.What's your preferred method of communication? How should people return? Absolutely well, I'm a FRAMPTON BAMBOO HRCOM and I would love to hear from folks,even if they disagree, and especially if they disagree. That's the fun part. Awesome, amy. It's been fantastic...

...having you as a guest on theshow. We're going to talk to on Friday for Friday fundamentals. I lookforward to it. Thanks so much. Thank you. Hey, everybody.Sam Jacobs Great Conversation with Amy Frampton. She's led an incredible life. Wetalked a lot about a lot of things. First of all, we talked aboutwhat's the key to success when your chiefest staff, not a job thatall of us have considered. Trust. Trust between you and the person thatyou are chief of staffing, because if you don't have trust then you can'tdrive influence, you can't drive outcomes within the organization, but if you doyou can serve as the extension of the CEO, the Celo and, asa consequence, get, as she said, sort of a Meta Mba. Sothat's really interesting career path and I think one that's growing in Burton becausewe're hearing more and more about it. Second thing we talked about her,not the second thing we talked about, but I'm not sure what order itwas, but sales development. WHO SHOULD THEY REPORT TO? Here's the pointthat I took from it. Everybody's always saying, Oh, sales development wantsto become a CON executives. We got to make sure that the reports salesand and I'll tell you from first end experience, I'll tell you from fromAmy's perspective. There are many more paths for people that have cut of conversationswith customers all day and simply becoming any conexecutive. And I think the defaultassumption that every sgr wants to become an AE is not true and I thinkthat's actually quite liberating. I think you can build that into the the professionaldevelopment career path in that you have for SDRs, if you make it abundantlyclear that products a career path, customer success or expansions a career path,sales as a career path, product itself, marketing as a career path. Sojust the idea that in a fast growing company new opportunities abound, notjust in sales, but across the organization and as people join the Sales DevelopmentOrganization and maybe should be called customer development, who knows? They have many morechoices and that means that maybe the SDR team can report to marketing orsales or some other, some other team. And I've always said the you know, the answer to that question for me is whoever the best manager is, you know, the maybe sometimes the best manager is the marketer, andso as a consequence of that, maybe... makes sense for us, yes, to report to marketing. So I thought it was great conversation. Reallyenjoy talking about it. Of course, the final thing we talked about isjust the importance if employer brand. I worked at the MEWS. I canI can underscore that. It's all interconnected. I think, you know, oneof the things that she talks about is just this idea that people wantto buy from places where they know that those companies treat the employees well,and I think that that's really true and it's all it's all synergistic. Right. One point in improvement and employee satisfaction translates to one point five points andimprovement in net promoter score or customer satisfaction. So it's something that everybody has tobe thinking about. If you don't know what your employer brand is,you best commence an exercise to discover it, because it's out there whether you whetheryou do that or not, and you want to be more intentional aboutcontrolling it, creating it, spreading the message around it. So great conversation. We want to thank our sponsors before we go. The first is outreach. Check out how outreach does outreach? Head on over to outreach out Iaford slash on outreach to see what they've gone going on. Second is pavilion. Take a look at our course catalog at join PAVILIONCOM and figure out ifyou want to take sales school to become an outstanding account executive, if youwant to take frontline manager school to learn how to lead great teams, orif you're ready to hop to the c sweet take chief customer officer, ChiefMarketing Officer, chief for having to offer their school and take that next stepin your executive career. So unlock your professional potential at joint PAVILIONCOM. Findthe air call set a new standard for sales productivity and performance by switching toa phone system that's best friends with your crm. Get twenty percent off.That's twenty percent off your first three months at air call, at are call, salesaccercom. Thanks again for listening. If you haven't given us five stars, please do that. Heading over the itunes store, at the spotify store. Give us five tunes. If you haven't joined the sales hacker community yet, go to salesacercom. Over twentyzero professionals just like you sharing experiences, sharinginsights. It's amazing. If you want to get in touch with me,you can. You can email me Sam at join Pavilioncom. I'll talk toyou next time.

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