The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

174. Mastering Sales Expression: Use Your Voice to Create Connection w/ Tom Stern

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode of the Sales Hacker Podcast, we have Tom Stern, President at Stern Executive Search and author of Fear Less, Sell More. Join us for a fantastic (and humorous) conversation about sales expression, the deliberate use of the voice as an instrument to create human connection.

What You’ll Learn

  1. Voice, tone, and language manipulation techniques
  2. How sales expression relates to human empowerment
  3. Investigating the story you tell about yourself
  4. The role of fear in sales

Show Agenda and Timestamps

  1. About Tom Stern & Stern Executive Search [4:16]
  2. What sales expression means [11:38]
  3. Using mirroring to close a deal [19:51]
  4. Listening, absorbing, synthesizing [26:50]
  5. Paying it forward: shout-outs [31:09]
  6. Sam’s Corner [36:03]

One, two, one, three, three, pay everybody at Sam Jacobs. Welcome to the sales hacker podcast. Today on the show we've got Tom Stern. Tom Is an award winning author, Oscar winner. He runs an executive search business. He's a jazz musician and we go deep on really expression, self expression. He calls it sales expression, but we talk and he he uses his voice as an instrument and we go through in practical moments how he does that. He he has a southern accent, a guy from Texas that he does it's almost like an impressions, but but it really it's towards the purpose of having better sales conversation. So really interesting conversation, really interesting person. Before we get there, let's thank our sponsors. The first is outreach. Outreach has been a longtime sponsor of this podcast. They really have, and what they do is they triple the productivity of sales teams and empower them to drive predictable and measurable revenue growth by prioritizing the right activities and scaling customer engagement with intelligent automation. Outreach makes customer facing teams more effective and improves visibility to it really drives results we're also sponsored by pavilion. Pavilion is the key to getting more out of your career. Our private membership connects you with a network of thousands of like minded peers and resources across sales, marketing, customer success, finance and more, where you can tap into leadership opportun UNITIES, Professional Development, coaching, schools and courses and other services made just for high growth leaders like you. Unlock your professional potential with a pavilion membership. Get started today at Joint PAVILIONCOM. Finally, were brought to you by blue board. Blue Board is the world's leading experiential sales recognition platform that offers top reps their choice of hand created experiences, from skydiving to court side tickets, Michel and start dining, if five star spot scapes, there's something for everybody. For President's Club, Blue Board offers individual bucket list trips and luxury home goods, from Palaton bikes to swimming with whale sharks and Cabbo, Yoga Retreats and bid at chasing the northern lights. Treat your reps like the Rock Stars they are. After they pick their favorite experience. Winning reps will partner with a dedicated blueboard concierge will plan all their logistics and itinerary, so you don't have to lift a finger. Check them out at PODCAST DOT boardcom to get your free demo. And now let's listen to my conversation with Tom sturn. Everybody, it's Sam Jacobs. Welcome to the salesacker podcast. Today on the show or super excited to have Tom Stern. Let me tell you a little bit about Tom and I'm sure this is going to be a fun and lively conversation. This is the bile that Tom gave me, just in case you think I'm being facetious in any way. Tom Stern was the black sheep and a family of lions. Tom's father was one of the founders of cable television and his great grandfather, a prominent philanthropist, was the CEO and chairman of Sears, Roebuck and company at the turn of the twenty century. As an adhd child with dyslexia, Tom was unable to live up to those lofty expectations and, as a result, suffered from extreme dream anxiety over time, by developing this creativity as a jazz musician, stand up comedian, writer, producer for HBO and Comic Strip Creator, he found his greatest success in sales, first as a talent agent for celebrity comedians and then as president of his own executive search firm. Leveraging what he calls sales expression, he has sustained excellence of the business world for over a quarter century. It is Tom's goal to help others achieve success in sales and realize their dreams by overcoming their fears. Tom, welcome to the show. Sam. Thank you very much and thanks for having me on with the sales hacker your I don't know anything about hacking. I have occasionally, by disgruntled clients, been referred to as a hack, but I don't think that's what this shows about and I don't think that's what I'm about. Yeah, no, and this show is about practical, actionable insights coupled with, you know, interesting stories about human beings which, hopefully, I'm sure, sounds like from the bio that I read you you qualify. Well, I'm transitioning into a human so by the end of this...

...show I'll be fully Hu. That's good. Well, that's very rapid transition. What's your what's the starting point, may I ask? The starting point was about fifteen minutes ago I type my transformation into the human form for this show. So you should feel very honored actually welcome to the species. We are excited to have it. So I gave your bio and your background. We do want to give you an opportunity to give us the quick over view of your firm. So stern executive search sounds, tell us about your business and then I want to dive into your background and then learn a lot about sales expression, because I think there's a lot to learn. You know, I'll try not to emphasize my current business too much, for only one reason. I don't want this to sound like an infomercial. You know, I'm proud of what I've accomplished. I've had help along the way, some great clients who trusted me and a lot of luck and the intersection between my passion and market conditions which were favorable. So happy to discuss it briefly, but I'm really here to get into my passion for the performance art that is sales. But I started this company almost thirty years ago after working in a boiler room, is a contingency recruiter where I learned my trade and I'm always and hat will always be grateful to Howard Harlow at Princeton corporate consultants forgiving me that opportunity and I got very lucky. I pleased an important person at what was then price waterhouse before the acquisition and merger with coopers and library, and so they came to me and said we really want to use you a lot and I went out on my own and I really didn't know what I was doing. I was working out of my house. I would be on the phone with candidates talking about stern executive search international while my dog was barking in the background. So you know you're ahead of your time. That's what everybody was doing over like yeah, right, and I used to say as a job. I'm sorry, I just promoted him to senior vice president. Very excited. Let me just give him some kibble and gone down. So you know, I was in this tiny little office that was like seven feet by nine feet in our tiny home, but I was wailing on the phone. I knew this was my shot and if I could make it happen I could really build some wealth and a sense of pride maybe that I'd never had in my whole life. So I created this business by serving professional services, which is essentially consulting, and there were a number of things I did to leverage my business because I was essentially alone, although I had help from researchers and I have a terrific research department right now. So what I did was I've a I took the risk of being big, of being important. I had to do that because I had to stand out. So I was a little more pronounced than I am today, a little more braggadocious than I am today. But you know what, I look back at that guy and I say, God bless you, I don't know if I could do it today what he did. I took that chance and I wailed like a jazz musician given a solo after waiting for his whole career, and I made the best of it. I was given a lot of opportunity because there was suddenly massive growth and we had a lot of fun. I mean, I'll tell you a quick story. You know, in those days there was no linked in and there was no sourcing technology. So that was an advantage for me because of having my acting training and my vocal training. I created these characters and I would recruit candidates, since we didn't again have social media by using characters that I created in a full research department and I found there were certain voices that cut people to open up and give me information. So it was really a fun time and not necessarily the most ethical time. I didn't break any laws, but I was, you know, on the phone is Robert Blaine going hello,...

...if you forgive me, please, I'm in an apple. Wan't about to go to mass and Beek. My computer is own with Brits and I suppose to some of the new company must have been six months ago to quality function deployment conference and I can't remember their name. And I know you busy and I don't need to be a bit, but if you could look through all the names within that to pop and they tell them to me, I know the second I hear it it will ring a bell and then they would go through the names and each one I would go narrow and I would write it down. Nore Hmm, sounds familiar, but not him. And that's how I would mind companies for information. This was all with the receptionist or the person that or send the phone as your assistance. None of this would be possible today and I created a character for manufacturing new mode. Jumis wild low from Austin Texas, and you know he just talked to manufacturing people out of it. And I just need your help and I'm embarrassed that I can't fully, you know, bring what I need to to the tellable and I you know, and it was a lot of fun. Did anybody ever figure out that you were doing an accent or was it always solutely not? They would even imagine that. You know. I mean I'm being playful now. I was really focused. What was fun is I would put people on hold in like I go. You know, they's a really good point. Could you just hope for one second and then I'd be like hold on, go hi, Tom Sara, and how can I help? I almost screwed that up once or twice, but now. So it was a lot of fun for me as a frustrated performer. But the way, that's maybe relevant today. So anyway, a bottle line about the company. I've been in the top one percent for twenty five years. I have no reason to explain it. I'm ferocious and I'm passionate, I'm reasonably intelligent and I'm very good on the phone, but I you know, in deconstructing it for my book, fearless so more. That was my plug. You know, I discovered that it was this creative impulse, this sensitivity to vocal intonation, this capacity to use my imagination and think what I say collaterally associatively, that allowed me to, you know, perform at a very, very high level. And so I'd placed vice chairman's and chairman's people making three million dollars. I've had, you know, big, big fees and big, big ears and they've been great. They've also post problems because I became a complete work a Hollic, eventually a ground down my first marriage. It's not all my fault, but my partner was being a workaholic. So some of what I even talk about is finding, let us say, more fun ways to do the job and to let go. It's not just the fear that holds us back from being successful in sales, but the fear can go into overdrive and actually ruin our personal lives. So it's about balance, it's about success, it's about expressing your abilities and I've been very lucky. And now you know, I'm sixty six years old and a week and I'm not ready for the don't sound sixty six. Well, I look like a hundred and six. So I'm glad this is on the audience from your early years as a jazz musician and stand up comedian, I suppose so. Anyway, the point is that I'm having a lot of fun, still doing search aggressively and have some wonderful clients, but I really thought this is the time to give back and share my experience and get to know people and answer questions. So I could go on and on about my business bragging, but you got the idea. I was lucky. It was pretty talented. Turns out I had some additional elements that coalesced to make me very successful and highly competitive, and I'd love to dive into those. And I hope that wasn't too long winded, but that's my answer. Well, you're allowed to be long winded when you're the guest. If you're the host, I might quibble, but you're the guest, so we want you to be long winded. So let's dive into, as you call it, sales expression, and really the power of expressing yourself, because I think it let's make sure that we get those ideas out to the audience while we've got you on the line, tell us what you mean when you talk about sales expression, why it's so powerful and how we can begin to sort...

...of emulate embody learn whatever the framework is that that you want to articulate. Great question, and very well articulated, I might add, by the way, you have terrific expressiveness and at some point we could talk about why. I think you're probably a fantastic host and appear to be. No, I mean that flattery will get you everywhere. Oh, it's not flattery. I'm in the business of assessing vocal expression, at who the person is and how I sense who they are. Your use of language, your tone, your conviviality. There're a couple of things that you've got going for you. Let me use an example of a sales expression, which is really intentional communication. Want not to use this interview. I made a choice. It's not conscious. I want to make friends with your audience. I want to find a middle ground between establishing credibility by demonstrating, through example and stories and my own confidence, that I'm highly successful, because otherwise I don't think they're really going to care and want to listen to me. Yet I want to find a tone that's approachable, hopefully not egotistical, and maybe even a little bit humble or vulnerable about my success, grateful, recognizing it's not all about me. So, not consciously, but when I just spoke about my business, I did a number of things to talk about luck, I try to express it in a particular tone. I mean I didn't you know by comparison. You didn't say tell me about Your Business and I didn't go. Well, okay, if you really want to know, I'm probably as good a recruiter as there is in the world. Nobody can do what I do. I'm really straight. I didn't talk that way and of course that would be foolish, but part of it is I give myself an intention make friends with the audience. Express who you are, but do it with gratitude and humility, and that intention informs everything that I say. And there are a million different intentions and they can move from moment to moment in a conversation. You can be talking to and for purposes of sales discussion, a prospect and suddenly you sense them tighten. If you're with them in person, it's physical, if you're on the phone it's vocal. There their voice pulls back. They suddenly get quiet in a way that's anxious provoking. And how do you adjust? And that moment some of its intuitive. Do you start asking questions? Do you blow by it and acts like it's not a big deal? Do you start getting do you alter your voice? It's like the combination to a safe. You have to be constantly looking for the numbers that will open the door to the money and the opportunity inside, and that comes from changing your voice, as I am now, because I'm talking about the secret and I'm conveying the safe and the money and the image and the mystery of it all, the mystery of those combinations, and so my voice begins to reflect that. Now part of though all of this, and it can sound Hokey when I break it down and I'm self conscious and go into a kind of Meta view of it, but you're really you're a communicator and you're an entertainer. Give Yourself, any salesperson, the freedom to really be expressive. I'm doing it in vocal ways, but it has to do with your intentions and it has to do with how you project who you are moment to moment. How do people practice this? Or you know as there are there some exercises people can do. Is it? I guess I have a few thoughts questions. What is is it about removing artifice and just sort of trying to bring to the surface your purest identity? Is it about getting in specific types of habits? And I guess the final kind of comments question is sometimes people are so hyper aware,...

...almost insecure about people's reactions to them that maybe they sense a change in tonality that actually isn't there. Maybe they overreact. So I guess the broadest question is what's the way to practice and embody this act of self expression through the context of sales such that it can be effective and people can get better at it? You're fantastic at asking questions. The only problem is there were like three hundred. Yeah, there are any I always ask too many questions and learned. We've only got seventeen minutes left, but here's my next question since the beginning of time. Yeah, but those are great questions. Well, one way you could practice is by doing tape recordings. Now it's a little painful because I'll be honest, I love the sound of my own voice. I always have. I actually had a teacher say to me once who was really annoyed with me. You know, Tom you really love the sound of your own voice, and I said, you know, I really do. I love the resonance that Tomber I love the way I can shift from Baritone to tenor. I enjoy the warmth and sometimes harshness, and I went on and on for like three minutes till he threw me out of the room. But the thing is, when I hear my voice recorded, I go that's what you think is so terrific. So you some a lot of people. You'll have to get over the self consciousness, but you can experiment with it as if there were octaves on a piano. So you can, you can give yourself challenges. What's my voice of authority? Is it? Look, you know I've been monking around with you and I'm going to tell you what you need to do. We've known each other ten years and I have a very strong point of view, is it? That's an interesting point. My experience is actually country durry. What I'd like to talk about now is some of the statistical underpinnings which will in fact demonstrate that my position has not only veracity but sustainability over time. Is that what it is and you can experiment and maybe there are four or five different voices, depending upon remember, this is a dialectic it's reciprocal, it's a loop. You are not only expressing yourself, you are reading and embracing and receiving what's being expressed to you, and that's part of the surfing the wave, the moment to moment reactivity. So, to answer your question, recording your voice is terrific. Also, sometimes listening to your voice, trying to sense it over time it'll be like the gears in a car. You know, when you first get a clutch, which is a fun way to drive, it can be challenging. After a while you don't even think about moving those gears. It's the same with the human voice. I found a gear in the last few months which is and I drop down and I say, Sam, that's a really good point and I really believe that what I'm doing is important and I drop down. Now it's not about artifice. If I really believe it. If I don't believe it and it's fake, that's terrible. So you want to express what you really feel. The issue is not to create false intention. The issue is to develop your instrument, as a violinist would try to achieve acquiring a strata areas, or a musician tunes their guitar. You want to be so finely tuned that your voice, your body, your mind and your emotions all work together to support that intention. And sometimes it doesn't work that way. A lot of people's voices go up, a lot of people stay in a very narrow range and you ask them how is the call? Oh, I was really dynamic, I did this, I did that, and it's all in their imagination, in their alternate universe. Is it about mirroring or is there a particular kind of internality or intonation that you find particularly effective, maybe like closing the deal? Is there a specific way that listeners can the...

...work on my sins at the end of the sales process? Now I understand and I guess it's hard to do this in thirty five minutes. It's a Fivehour workshop, which will put charge a lot of money for it. But or enough. I was going to say. I'm happy to do my best because they're great questions. It's not just modeling, I think that was the term used, or mirroring. Yeah, mirroring because you also want to lead. Sometimes mirroring is where you create a connection so that you can lead and take that person who's now connected with you to places they wouldn't go. You don't just model the voice, you model what I call personification. I'm just going to use you as an example real time and you can go okay, sucking up to me, Sam. I don't suck up to people did years ago constantly. I don't have to, I don't care to. Let's talk about you for one second. I'm actually not vocally modeling with you. My voice is very different. I'm projecting more energy than you are. I'm louder, I think. But what I'm modeling with you is your intellect, the quality of your questions, the fluidity of your speech, your mastery of language, your vocabulary, the sequencing of the words shows to me high cognitive activity, real curiosity. So you're highly inquisitive, you're very poised. Your Ego may be there, but you're really in this process and you're exploring it the way somebody who's confident in their intellect and has a high appetite to acquire information would. So what have I done? Well, I'm not as canned as I sometimes can be in these interviews I'm being much more spontaneous. I'm trying to delve into my own thought processes. I'm really trying to answer you. So I'm modeling the spirit of you, not the voice of you, and that's where your imagination and your emotions and your sensing happens. It's called, you know, building affiliation. It's how we create contact, how we create comfort. But we're all expressing you say, and you express a very particular kind of urbanity. But I could see you in blue jeans and a flannel shirt. So I don't know where you went to school. I would assume you do reading or you assiduously listen to people and really question things. You're highly analytic. See everything I'm doing right now, by the way, is another great sales mechanism. I'm doing it here to prove a point, which is not only can you sense people and read them, but when you get good at it, you can tell them what you see, and that's a very powerful thing. That busts up the whole subtlety of I'm mirroring you to say I see you, this is who I see, and if you get good at this, you'll be accurate about ninety nine percent of the time because their ways to bifurcated. I mean everything I said about you. I believe based on what I saw. I bet you I'm reasonably accurate. I'd be very surprised if you're egotistical. I'd be extremely surprised if you were uneducated. There are a couple of basic things that are so obvious about you that I lead with them, because then the chances that I'm inaccurate are so slim. So I pick low hanging fruit. I make a quick, rapidfire decisions about your characteristics, I draw a conclusion by layering them all together, and then I have a picture of you and I reflect it back to you and define it for you. And when people feel seen, that's really powerful, and then you can build trust and then refer back to it later. I know I'm rambling and but let me try to give you an example. Sometimes you can do it in mood and spirit, which is, I don't know, for some reason I feel like very aware of your mood and spirit, which is probably why you're very good at this job. You can do it with content that you've gathered and made a supposition about, a decision about who that person is. I once had a very powerful candidate who had been it was...

...a genius and got to high school and did all the bullies homework and was in a crappy school, then went to Harvard, Mit Mackenzie krem Della Creme resume. I had him down between my company, accenture, and another midsize company and I was sweating in my boots because it was a big fee, one of the first big ones I ever made in my new company, and I said to him, how would you compare them? And he said, well, accenter, then Anderson Consulting. He said it's Monolithic. It's an endless skyscraper with opportunity and resources. So I was feeling good. But then he said I said, what about the other company? Said well, they're small, but you know, they're very collect collegial and a lot of times I feel like I'm the smartest person in the room. And that's where I took out the Arrow from earlier information and I shot it right into a subconscious and I said yes, it is fun and rewarding sometimes to feel like you're the smartest person in the room but you don't want to do their homework. And I correlated a potential positive to a negative from his history. That demonstrated that I had listened to him, I had formulated opinion about his psychology and I had tied that to a current event that was part of his decisionmaking. When I saw the look in his eye when he was like boing, I don't want to do their homework, which was a way of saying you don't want to have to carry these people, you don't want to be the smartest person in the room. In a lot of situations you may even have to be burdened because you're constantly buttressing them. And when I painted it with that one statement, correlated it to his earlier life. It was over. He was going to take the job at the place I was going to make my feet and not the other place where I was going to make zero. So that's another example of using psychology, listening to content and putting together a profile of someone based on what they've expressed. You now I'm doing these in thumbnail sketches because we don't have time. There were so many other things I learned about him, but allowed that moment to foment and come to the surface and allowed me to leverage it too powerful. It really is a powerful example. Do you feel like the biggest? I mean what I'm taking from this and, by the way, thank you for all the flattering words. I think we're going to have you back every week now tom so I would appreciate. Can we do twice a week? Sham I really did to you like he really did. I mean that's the technique too, because I'd not only did I feel seeing, but I felt like you know, I mean people like caring compliments. I always say flattery will get you ever, and I people thinking I really meant it it. You've got to mean it. I mean, Gosh again, an artifice is bad. Find the things you mean. Don't make up stuff you think. The biggest mistake people make is just not listening, in a way, not perceiving, being too much in their own head and to two inward looking, because a lot of what you're saying, a lot of these it's all. It's really about your ability to be still and to listen and to absorb and synthesize, and you can only do that if you're not the one talking and you're not thinking about yourself, you're looking and observing somebody else. I've had a lot of success and I've done a lot of talking. So I think listening is critical. Every book will tell you that. Common Sense tells you that, but synthesizing is critical. Looking inward, it's all how you define these things. Let me make it simple. Fear is the enemy. Fear will take the best intention and turn it into a landmine. Fear will take introspection meant to understand yourself and your intentions and turn it into self doubt or even, at worst, grandiosity. So it's really trackling your fears. And let me address that, because it's just hard for me to sum up this book in this talk. I'm doing my best. Understand your story. See Yourself. You know, this is all...

...about vision, clarity, understanding, sagacity, wisdom. You know. See yourself another exercise I have. It's kind of like recording your own voice. Go through your life story, find the moments where you weakened and were overwhelmed with terror, find the moments where you found courage and you had grit, and begin to identify where you are ambidextrous and really balanced, where you are over reliant on one side of your body and where you're paralyzed. And what are the roots? What is to use a fancy word, because you know you've gotten my competitiveness up with your mastery of the language. Where's the ideology, the causation of these personal characteristics? And you know when you begin to understand yourself, you begin to identify, you don't have to go to a psychoanalyst write the story of Your Life, and you don't have to make it a hundred pages. Pick these critical fulcrums, these moments, forks in the road. I could do tell and we don't have trust when we don't have time. I've done it with my own life. I found my heart. I know where my courage is. I also know where I completely cheated myself, I betrayed myself, I was cowardly, I lost all strength. I've had both of those coexist at different times and sometimes oscillate from one to the other. Sometimes there were periods in my life dominated by cowardice and other times by great courage. Why? What was it? Where are those points? Because when you find your courage, you have the strength to be inquisitive and curious and give up control, and that's what creates listening and that's what creates expression, because you value yourself. You have the self esteem of having faced your challenges and having leveraged your strengths and your courage, and that brings with it freedom and expression and the ability to see others because you value yourself and you're not consumed by self doubt. Well, wow, that's a lot wise words, wise words. I don't have more to say about it other than that. I mean that is that certainly the journey I've been on over the last couple of years is and fear is the fears, the great black force and all of our lives. So it is one thing I'd like to say because it's you really can't obliterate fear. First of all, it's built into our nervous system, from our Amigula and the Reptilian brain all the way down to our adrenal glands. The whole metabolic chain is designed to create adrenaline and cortisolve for fight or flight when you're in jeopardy. The problem is we have an unconscious mind, we have TRAUMAS, we have triggers that will engage the neural pathways and, you know, all of those hormonal elements and create a nonstop, reflexive trigger of fear. And what I like to say is fear may never sleep, but we can have it. Take a nap, and that's my goal, is to have us all take naps, have juice, some cookies and eventually regress back to the womb. Good luck for Tom Almost we're about out of time. The last part of the conversation is paying it forward a little bit and figuring out people that you think we should know about that have been particularly influential in your life. Maybe books besides the book that you've written, fearless, sell more. Everybody go to Amazon and buy it, but books that you think have had a big impact on you, ideas, however you want to interpret it, it's just people or ideas or things that you think we should know about that help form you, that can lead a bread crumb trail back to you know, who is Tom Stern and what inspired him and created him. So when I frame it like that, which is intentionally quite expansively, what comes to mind? Well, you know, I'll give you two examples that come to mind. One is random. When I was in my s, I was a very hyperactive, very volatile person,...

...very immature, and I went to go swimming and I was in a hurry and this woman who had the lane kept swimming and swimming. The others had just started. She seemed to be going forever. I finally screamed in the gym and this indoor pool, are you ever effing going to be done, and reverberated in the linoleum of the indoor pool and she popped up and turned to me and said with real kindness, the stress is really bad, isn't it? That moment has never left me because I spent a lot of time when I was younger overwhelming people with allowed voice, with my energy. I'm not going to say I was a bully, but I could be obnoxious and this woman, in a kind of Jiu Jitsu move of kindness and solidity and poise, diffused me completely. I was completely as totally embarrassed by my behavior. I slinked away but never forgotten that moment. So kindness and the capacity to empathize is probably the most powerful tool we have as human beings to create a connection and get our point across. So that's that's one. And then the other would be my sister, who I don't want to reveal too much, but she's had some significant health challenges in the specially in the last few years. Surgeries and very difficult things and she has to take a lot of medicines and she struggles every day. She and I have been involved, and when I say I ninety eight percent her to present me as an advisor in a project to help kids who have dyslexy and Adhd be educated in public schools and elsewhere through content, and it's called devil and she's never given up. Over twelve years we did a project together, that one an academy award called the Moon in the sun. I wrote the final draft and she produced it and this was our next project and it started twelve years ago. She is never given up. She has fought through these illnesses. He has had a passion to help children and now finally she got in a strategic partner was very well known and now she's finally got a significant contract and this content is going to be disseminated. I've watched her never give up, have incredible passion, have disappointments, but she had a vision and in need and a belief in something. If you can have that as a salesperson and believe that this is an incredibly important job that the economy survives on, that you bring value and that you're not going to be turned away and you're not going to give up on yourself and you're going to fight for your future and for your value. You cannot be stopped as long as you do the basics. The degree of your success may vary, but a feeling of the success and real achievements and whatever the continuum is, of your particular potential, that is certain. So never give up, never give up. Always keep pursuing your passion. I love it, Tom If folks are out there and they're interested in connecting with you, are you open to that? Do you have a preferred method of communication? If so, absolutely. Let's see, I guess for the moment. Well, first of all, please go to my website, Tom Stern Central. That has all the different things I've done. I'm proud of it. It tells about the book and the Academy Award Process and the Strip and the radio shows and all these different things, and you can also write me an email at Tom at Stern exactcom, St Ern x seccom. I'm available to coach if I have time. I'll certainly spend a few minutes at least try to be helpful, and I'm available to be encouraging and to advise and champion. Awesome Tom thanks so much for being on the show and we'll talk to you on Friday for Friday fundamentals. Terrific and I look forward to my two appearances next week. Thank you very much. Sounds good. Everybody.

Sam Jacob Sam's corner. Really enjoyed that conversation with Tom Stern. Obviously fascinating person, obviously fun to hear somebody manipulate and use their voice and their expression and their tone and their language to navigate a conversation, particularly a sales conversation. Of course it's always fun for me to be so richly complimented. So thank you, Tom for all of those nice words. And it's also just interesting that a lot of the ideas that Tom expresses aren't really specific to sales. There about human actualization, human empowerment, your ability to achieve your potential, which, of course, you know I found it a company based entirely on that premise. And one of the things that Tom mentioned is fear, the the omnique presence of fear and how it drives so much of our decision making and if we can find a way to give fear and nap as Tom puts it, and to let go of our fear. Then we can move into a ze own and a state where we have the ability to perceive more of the world, where we can move outside of ourselves, where we can be truly empathetic and truly compassionate because we've let go of all of those things that navigate and dictate our internal personal narrative. So I think that's a it's a really interesting concept. You know, one of the ways that you can work on that is through meditation, transcendental meditation as they say. I try to do it every day, most days I do, and it's really about letting go. It's not about not having thoughts, it's about letting go so that the thoughts are not who you are, they are just part of the transom of your mind. There's another book that's really interesting to read about this topic, called the untethered soul. I read that earlier this year and just very, very powerful in terms of understanding or rethinking consciousness and how we exist and what our stories are about ourselves. So this is a much, much longer conversation potentially, and likely one that I shouldn't have with myself, which I'm doing right now. But the point is tone of voice and the ways that you bring yourself into every interaction, whether it's on the phone or in person or over resumed all matter. Be Intentional about it, be specific about what you're trying to accomplish, and then you know that the broader journey about becoming your best self. But that is a lifetime's worth of work, but it's starts with maybe rethinking certain assumptions you have about who you are, what you are and may be about dreaming bigger for yourself, but also being compassionate both to yourself into others and seeing if you can let go of fear. Fear of asking the question, fear of being perceived a certain way, fear of looking like a failure, of fear of being abandoned. Abandonment is one of my fears, rejection and abandonment. So anyway, it is a good conversation. Sparked some thought. That's what we want from these conversations. Now, before we go, we want to thank our sponsors. We have three sponsors. The first is outreach. outreaches empowering the productivity of sales teams all over the world, driving predictable and measurable revenet growth good. I reach you to learn more. We're also sponsored by pavilion, a transformational gathering place for high growth leaders like you, just like you and your team's go to join pavilioncom to learn more. Doesn't matter what function you are. We've got communities for sales, marketing, customer success, finance and more soon to come. And of course, we're brought to you by blue board, because, you know what, cash bonuses aren't that inspiring, they're not that interesting. What we want our rich experiences in blue board is the world's leading experiential sales recognition platform. Everything from going to dinner at French laundry to jumping out of an airplane to watching Kevin Durant make a free throw from courtside tickets. All of it's possible with Blue Board. Go to podcast up blueboardcom to get your free demo. I will talk to you next time, my friends,.

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