The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 5 months ago

156: How to Sell Without Ego w/ Michael Hanson

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Overview:

Today on the show we’ve got Michael Hanson, the founder and CEO of Growth Genie, a company that’s helping salespeople to get more meetings. Michael shares a great framework for how to sell without ego along with outstanding tips and tactics for how to get meetings. One of his most important insights is about how to use video appropriately.

What You’ll Learn

  1. Key principles to empower SDRs for success
  2. Tips and tactics for using video in outbound
  3. How long should sequences be? How many channels?
  4. Should sales development fall under sales or marketing?
  5. The sales pro's internal battle to sell without ego
  6. How to change your mindset on rejection

Show Agenda and Timestamps

  1. Key principles to empower SDRs for success [4:55]
  2. Tips and tactics for using video in outbound [7:14]
  3. How long should sequences be? How many channels? [8:49]
  4. Should sales development fall under sales or marketing? [14:25]
  5. The sales pro's internal battle to sell without ego [15:24]
  6. How to change your mindset on rejection [19:33]
  7. Sam’s Corner [25:00]


 

One two one: Three: Three: Everybody at Sam Jacobs, welcome to thesalesacker podcast today on the show we've got Michael Hanson he's a CEO andfounder of a company called Growth Geni, which is a really interesting company.That's helping enable sales people to get more meetings and he's got a greatframework for how to sell without ego, and he also has a lot of really goodticks tips and tactics, not texs. That would be bad tips and tactics for howto get meetings very practical insights, including a really important insightthat he has about how to use video appropriately, which I really love. So,I think, is a great show before we get there. Let's heare from our sponsor ourreach has been a long time sponsor this podcast. They just launched a new wayto learn. oureach onot reaches the place to learn how outreaches out reach,learn how the team follows up with every lead and record time, learn howavrice runs account base plays, manages reps and uses their own salesengagement platform to drive results. Everything is backed up by data holdfrom their processes and from insights with customers. When you're done,you'll be able to do sales engagement as well as outreached us, which ofcourse, who doesn't want to do that head over to outreach io forward, sashl now reach to see what they've got going on. I'd also be miss not to tellyou about on leas two thousand and twenty one on May eleven tha thirteenwere focusing on how to win all together in the new sales era. You'lllearn Newgo to market strategies, get deeper funnaling, sigts and actionabletakeaways for your entire organization, from revenue leaders at Igro, startupsand fortune. Five hundred companies and our very special guests are non anotherthan Giraz podcast. An author of how I built this in carry lorens. The firstfemale fighter pilot in the US Navy. Come Save Your seat for this highenergy online event, atd on leash that out reached a AO. Now, let's listen tomy conversation with Michael Anson, everybody at Sam Jacobs. Welcome to theSales Hacker podcast today on the show I'm really excited to have MichaelHanson Michael, is the founder of Growth Genie, a consultancy thatempowers Beto, be sales teams to have...

...better conversations and get in frontof more of their ideal. Customer profile. Michael Welcome to the showpleasure to be her SM and yeah. Looking forward to the conversations today,we're excited to have you so typically, we start with what we call yourbaseball card, which is really what it's come down to as an opportunity foryou to pitch growth. Gene tell us what growth genie is and what it does soyou're the founder in CEO. What is growth genie? Tell us what the companydoes yeah. I think your intro is good. We're in the business of empowering beto be Sauras. Teams to yeah have better conversations and get in front of moreof their ideo customer profiles. We predominantly work with SASS technologycompanies with their SDRs and e teems, I'm really wearing the business ofempowering them, so, whether that's through better messaging in theirsequences weekly coaching sessions, we just that empower them, how it an besuccessful and also be fulfilled and happy in their Ros. That's alwaysworthwhile calling. How long have you been doing this we're relatively new?So I started the company in September. Twsendan. Nineteen just before thepandemic, which you would have thought was not a good time to start business,but I think actually, the the pandemic has benefited us, because I thinkthere's a huge push to do. outround at the moment, where essentiallyspecialist in out Bam. I think the fact that there's not in person evendnts inbounds, ride out for a lot of people. We've noticed a big posh for outmand,so in a weird way, bepandemics benefit for us and just give you a little bitof background about breate VI t out the company I before starting Grat Geni. Iwe for coming good ploudtask how to scale it from like five peoples overtwo hundred people. The start was pretty much just myself in the Co wedoing sales and marketing and then obviously Grawin a business. We weredoing souvs an marketing, Wel, say operationle, like we were doing outsour sals. It was quite interesting seeing what was working n, what wasn'tworking and then just noticing that I think often you know SD as a seen aslike the junior role of the team, and I feel like nowadays. Actually you know,Tini a completely cold lead like an...

...enterprise company into an opportunity,is often a more difficult skill than getting like an Imboun lead on yourwebsite as ready to Vice I'm quite passionate about enabling SDRs and justgenerally people that are kind of doing cold, outlond souse Woll. Thank you forthe introduction and let's talk about that a little bit. So you mentionedthat. There's a big push to outbound. What's working in outbound, you know,there's been a lot of I've been part of a few conversations recently the talkabout here in the US. The number of spam calls that are increasing, and youcan hear a delay when somebody tries to call you through some kind of serviceso often times. You end up a lot of SDR emails, starting to look and feel thesame. A lot of spam through linked in when you're training and empowering andenabling both SDRs and salespeople around out bound what do e the keepprinciples that you're teaching and what are some of the tactics thatyou're using today, O that that you're, finding successful and effective yeah acouple of things is at the start. Very first line always make it about them.I'm sure is, is something you've heard a lot on this podcast right, which iste always thinking about their own needs and they're, not thinking aboutwho's the person I'm reaching out to what's their job rol or what's theirindustry? What are they looking for, so that very first line where it can bethe first line of a cold call can be the first sine of a Linkim message, reout or a voice noe, and essentially it show me. You Know Me Right show me: Doyou understand who I am my business, my industry and sometimes there's a lot ofbad press around automation at the moment, you could still do that inAultimation, like if every single person in your list has this specificneed, then, in that first line N, whether it's an industry traing, youcan actually show that, of course, it's going to be more impact for if you donon a one on one basis and thenthy other thing is when you're asking for ameeting think about what's in it, for them, don't just be like. Do you havetime for a thirty minute call it's like. Would you be interested in learningmore about whatever it is? Tell them at? What's going to happen, an the call ifit was my case about increasing the reply rate for the ESTHR TM on nextweek? That's the kind of things you want to be talking about. What's thebenefit of them to having the call and...

...then showing them? You know that's noton the messaging side and then I think from like a channel medium side we'reseeing that email like open rates. I think people are getting so many emails,as you were talking about. I think I saw of stat the other day like theaverage person in a business gets like a hundred emails and then like sealevel. Decision makers are gating like anywhere between two hundred and threehundred emails, so to break through is becoming harder and harder. Some things,weare seing work very well like sending people like very thoughtful e gifts.Direct Mair right now is a bit difficult nowadays, because wher opeople hat are like at a home, adress woking from home, but saying the legifsand then sarting that we've had the highest conversion rates across ourclients are actually voice. Notes on Linkeon a lot of people don't even knowthat you can actually send voice motes on Ninkton, and I think just one of thereasons is just being human right. We find that a lot of SDRs or soles peoplehihe behind Nemail, just don't Kni bin Eba, be human. I think the more humanyou can be, the more you can connect with people because, as you said,there's a lot of these spam calls and kind of span emails going out. Are youadvising clients to incorporate video? That's something. We've been hearing alot about into, and then I guess my follow. Question is well for I'll. Stopthere are you seeing lots of euse a video yeah. Video is great. One of thethings you have to watch out for in video is, if you put links in your veryfirst email, it's a cold email, a company you've never had anyinteraction before. Sometimes I can get you sent to span so just like atechnical Tine to recommend putting video in like your second or thirdemail. If someone opens your email, then they sent you their email serverssaying like we trust that email addressso, that's rhight were trying tosend the first email that hasn't got a link, they open it and then the secondone. You can send a a video to be careful about that videos of linketen.I think, write really well and then I think the thing with video some peoplefind hem a bit cringe because it's like hey here. I am floh Blah Blah W youeusing to thers various video tools out there that you can use, and you canshare screen to go on the website of the part you're reaching out to mentionsomething about their website or...

...mention something that's very relevantto them. And well say they did a really thoughtful linked in post like sharescreen on that Linkein post and that's going to get their attention because Ithink a lot of people are sending videos just for the safe of it because,like Oh, it's cooled to send videos but actually send something. That'sthoughtful in the video I' just sending the video. For the sake of it. That's afantastic tip worth the price of podcast right. There have sequences,become more complicated and longer in duration, there used to be I've heardpeople talk about like I love that there's like sort of sportssports terminology for some of these things, but an eight by eight, which issort of eight touches over eight days across voice mail, whatever they callwhen you call, but don't leave a message. Email so have you seen becausepeople's attention is harder to get? Are you advising clients on expandinglength of sequences for completely cold prospects? And maybe it's thirty daysand then are you? Are you saying you know now? Your sequence has to includea video. It has to include a Linkedad voice message. It has to include avoice mail. It has to include a text message on the third touch, we're goingto send them. You know a squishy ball in the mail. How many differentchannels are you advising clients to pursue through sequences, greatquestion so or sequine? Some of the touches have changed in the sefrence.The length hasn't really changed. We've been using the same sequence for awhile, which is actually thirty, touches over around the course of threeweeks and its actually ou most popular bit of content. Wee Ore, like thirtytouch cadence ten plate. If you got my linked in you'll, see it on my page andI think if, after the reaction is like wow, thirty touches that's Harassman,etc, but actually there's a lot of logic behind it right. So you look at,I think the average Connectrat for a cold call now is five percent that canbury so can go up to like ten percent of be falling saes leaders who are morelik to pick up the phone, but it can go down to like three percent if Yo Tal, Ithing wore like a a techi leader, so I can take you like twenty calls just toget hold of someone once emails as well.

As I said, the email open rates goingdown, I think the average road from rate I's gone down like to below twentypercent in the last year and then Linton is becoming more and morecrowded. So ofsome people don't even see your message. That's a Vig, I thinka lot of sous reps. well, we telk a little bit more about Ego Layso, theythink. Oh someone hasn't replied. They don't like my message, but often theyjust haven't seen it and then I so I have a colleague called Laurence. Iused to work with him at my last company and brought them across and hewas really someone that told me the value of this like high touch sequences,because I would see him regularly get like a lead on like the twentieth,coall or nine female or whatever it is, and I'm not with this cadence, I'm notsaying to span people right. Your messaging still needs to be thoughtful,but I can show you a ton of examples for us and our clients. We actuallyjust closed the pint this week and he came back to us and like the eightfemale and that email, the last touch of an email sequence is always seemslike now is not the right time you standing kind of last email, but thenwe say I would really like feedback so that when I'm reaching out to similarpeople like yourself, whether it's a sous leader day society or whatever itis, I can improve, and then he sent a message back then like yeah, like theapproach happy to have a chat, and then he was like ps, it shows you knowasking for feedback and work, because he was a cro, its actually like askingfor feedback at the end of your sequence, we found worts quite well,and you mentioned things about like videos in their voice. Notes are inthere s. We have like all the channels you mentioned, or in there within thosethirty touches, ower Yeu got you know, seven Emo, seven linkedon messages, tento fifteen calls semaster S. well, if it's a warm lead like a marketing lead,so we use all those channels because you don't know where people live, soyou kind of have to use all of them like even with SAS leaders, somesauards eider still like email, even though I'm saying the Opopen rate isbelow twenty percent. Other people, like linketin other people, pick upphone calls. We just say you have to do all of them. Well, that makes sense. Ilove it and that is controversial. Thirty over ATSN, you gonna have somefiery debates and I mean I'm sure it...

...works, and that's why you do it and I'msure there are people that maybe give you some feedback that they want tostrangle you or something it's funny. I did one of those kind ofLingetin Post, so this was January last year, just over a year ago, whereyou're trying to get people to comment on your post, because that increasesthe engagement on lingtond. So I said, yeah we've got a thirty touch. CADNCincludes slington phone email etcetea like would you be interested in seeinga copy and then, like fifteen hundred people, commented on it. The problemwith that, though, was that, because it's not a landing page righ werethat,is to like proactively goinglike get someon sides of like hireing out sourorfreelances to goand like contact everyone of my linked en o them gettheir emails and contact them, but yeah. It just showed that like cadences andlike how many touches do you do to reach out to people? There's like areally hot topic at the moment and the widee souls absolutely as well gettingpeople's attention is always a really hot topic we touched on it. Maybebriefly, but what's your background sounds like you're? Am I right thatyou're, British, or from a different part of the United Kingdom? If it allyou pint at right, onm, Breti, Sho, I'm English. I grew up in London, so I yeGess rar that I grew up in London, London's very like multicultural citiesand most people who live in London, a'm from London and then actually lived abroad for quite anumber of years. When I was twenty two I moved to Berlin, I actually used towork. I in politics, I wark o an election in Africa, believe it or notcame back West politics, an the UK for about funny enough. I've spoken O quitea few Saas leaders recently that started their career in politics andthen moved over to sales, and then thing it was about two thousand andthirteen kind of got into tech and then actually moved. U Fro into cloud hartswhere it was all about, like outband prospecting had like Salos marketingaccount management roles, and I'm actually quite glad that I got to seeall those different sides because I feel like as a business owner. It'sreally helped me to understand. Like a...

...little bit of everything, I also feellike prospeting, that we help people with lot of people see Itas sales, butI feel like it crosses a lot of different departments, and it's nowgoing into like customer success. There's always tha debate shouldn't bein sounds of marketing. So quite I feel like I felt quite grateful. Thatv hadquie diverse career. Do you have a point of view on whether of salesdevelopment and to be in sales and marketing? The thing is, with ourclients, we've seen like hoffbaul clients having marketing Obou havingsales have few having like demon generation. So some people have I itsown department. I think wherever it works like if you it's funny actually,because one client came in recently and they said, Oh, we may move SDSmarketing and I said Oh, is things are going well ind soutand? They were likeno, it's going really well in soles and I was like well in the UK. We say thatain't broke, don't fix it, so I think there's pick there's pitfuls to both solike. Sometimes if you have xdrs in the sailers team, if sales and marketingaren't aligned, then they're not getting the content that marketingscreated and obviously contents good to include your linketin, messenges emails,etc, and then sometimes, if you got marketing Ownin the SDR team Kno one inthe marketing teams over done nes tar work, they often send these kind of.Like you know, marketing emails, which are very different to sous email, is so,but as long as Salas ad morceting Ar really aligned, you have a good leader.I think it can work either way agreed completely. One of the things that Iknow, you're passionate about is that great sequences, great albom messages,are important to being a great salesperson, but the biggest driver isactually the internal battle that many sales people face talk a little bitabout your thoughts. There you mentioned offline, that you don't readsales specific books, but you do have a deep appreciation for sort of humanpsychology. Talk about the evolution of your thinking there and why you thinkso much of people's struggles are are internal. We have a modular, grawth,gene, whoad selling without ego, and...

...you know, we've identified thesenegative driven. Emotions are associated with you, R you go, you cannever get rid of them, but you can recognize them and then, if I give youan exampl R oftn in sales, wite focusing on desire of getting a meetingor closing a deal. So essentially, this like, if you make a cold call, forexample, in your head. If you're like, I need to book a meeting on this call,often you won't do it because you're focusin on getting that rother thanhaving a conversation with the person, seeing if they're good for making sureit's interactive and just like getting to know them and no knowing theirbusiness and their pains, which is all sales is about. So sometimes, if youdetach from that outcome and start thinking about yourself, then you canhave a much more fruitful conversation and then you know in othercircumstances, I think sometimes our ego can get in the way where maybe weget like a reply. That's not that Nice from someone and I've seen a millionstories where someone sent a really nicethe email, but then the person onthe on the end of it, I sou as person, doesn't have like a big ego, just likeokay Parsons in a bad mood or whatever I'm going to give them a couple of days.Then I'm going to reply with something really personalized and I've seen theturn that into a meeting in a deal and there's like loas of stories. I canshow you a done links im post about it, one rap that we coach recently did onebecause he got one message in the morning Ras like I'm completelydoubting myself, because someone said: Stop spauming me being like Arassing meand then, like six hours later, someone said he'd he put through like a bigsequence and Neve got back to him and said really sorry nowwe go in touchwith you like six months ago, and you were contacting me Bu riting in themarket for a service like yours, that's of a chat, and then it was just likethe complete shifting mindset an like the morning to the afternoon. You'vethought a lot about this about all of the different negative emotions thatdrive ego. What are your influences? How did your thinking on this evolve?What were some kind of milestone moments in your life that that causedyou to sort of reflect on this internal narrative that changes and has so muchimpact over our personal outcomes? Yeah.

I think it's just knowing that you havea lot of people say this right, but you learn a lot more from your failuresthan your successes. I think so. You often go in those those dark momentsand then you come out the end of it and then I think, just being inspired. Youknow by Mentals, even that my colleague Laurence, so I mentioned I'm thirty,two he's as Yo say older, I think he's in his s and that my last company I sawhim like often there would even be someone saying, unsubscribe or notinterested into me, like back that it was crazy to think about contactingthem, and I saw him like turn around conversation. So I think that was areal lesson to me, because I feel like at some point you feel rejected butbeing rejected. That's on you right! That's you! In your head! It's like! Iam rejected. This person's rejected me baby. Have the mindset to say no, thisis just a bad time. I don't know what they're going through. Maybe there'sproblems at home. Maybe the dog died, maybe they're having problems withtheir marriage or whatever it is. If you change that mindset, that's whatcan really help you. So I think that's what's. May Me think an also the way Isee things it's. Never it's maybe a very like saus mindset, but it it'soften never really a know, it's more of just a temporary, no rate. So it's likeno right now, but you contact someone in three months. Things always change.That's why I like the breakof Emai we were talking about before. I don'treally like to think of it as a breakof emale. I just think of it. As you know,let's put things on hold for now, so yeah coff cofla thoughts on that. Howdo you change your mindset? How do you flip the script? How do you developthat empathy as it is just a matter of being aware of it? Do you havepractices that you employ or do you meditate or how do you go about theprocess, because I found that it's easy to say: Stop Thinking, stop taking itpersonally, stop thinking it's about you, but it's pretty difficult to do inpractice. Yeah. I think that's a great question and a great point- and I thinkyou mentioned meditation there meditations a Word Rights, a buds wordat the moment. I just call it breathing.

That's all meditation! It's justfocusing focusing on your breath, so I wal Jo, say to people that may be putoff by like hippie terms or whatever I'm just like meditation is justbreathing. So even another one of the negative ego driven emotions is anxietyand, like fear, often the to Canbeinto, lingts and even like before thispodcast like I know, Saras Hacker right and you know it's amazing for me tocoll in this podcast- be listening to sorry, reading, Saras tackers, likeforums and post for years, but five minutes before just get away from MaCompusto get away from the situation, stop thinking about Saras Hacker andlike breathe for five minutes, and that's what I say still now. If I do acold called power, I don't have too much time to do it nowadays, but Istill like to do it because we're advising our clients to do it. It'schanging all the times I need to it. I still get that fear of like the firstcouple of connects. So again. What I'll do I know if I got a cool power Ou getaway from my screen, breathe for five minutes and Breathingis. Just one thinglike you can go for a walk you can do exercise. Essentially, I think, ifsomethingis getting you down just get your head like away from that situationand then, when you come back to it, you feel refreshed. I'm also bigg into likepeople taking like a week off work, wherthey literally just get away fromtheir screens and because I know some people now leaders are like you have tostay connected. You've got to be online, but I really think it's important oncein a while like to completely shut off, and I think when you come back, youfeel really rejubenated and you feel like focusing on the other person andnot your own selfish self, because often that dout is coming from your ownneeds of like I need to get sailes. I need to get sales, whereas if you justescape it, you forget about that. Are there any books that you've read orwere there any catalysts for your you're right? Meditation is justbreathing. Are there specific kind of books on psychology that you wouldrecommend people read so that they can embrace kind of this idea of thisphilosophy, because it's very it's simple but powerful yeah for surethere's one? I really recommend that kind of like transform way thinking onso many things, which is called the...

...cosmic game: Human Frontiers ofconsciousness by KI called Stanislov, groff and he's a psychologist, and hetalkd he's big about like the kind of merging between spirituality andpsychology, and I find that very interesting o' a spiritual person aswell, and he sai. I think, one of the things he taught me in that book wasthat all of us have darkness, which I I think, i'de always been trying to likefight darkness and worldpeace and, like all that other stuff- and I thought allof US- have a darkness inside of us and it's all about how we deal with thatdarkness. That's going to define us and you can ever get rid of darkness, butessentially you can shine a light on it and deal with it yourself. I think thatis like a huge revelation for me: That's Helpe me gumbely in life and, ofcourse, in sales as well, Michael, where we're almost at the end of ourtime. Together, you mentioned your mentor Laurence. We have a a sectionwhere we sort of try to pay it forward. It doesn't have to be laurentit can beanybody when you think about people that have had a really positive impacton you and your development and thereare people that, maybe you thinkwe should know about who comes to mind in terms of mentors or great leaders orgreat executives, that have really had a big impact on your career. But it'sdifficult question. Yeah Lot, like you mentioned Lor, it's funny, because Iended up hiring lawrence myself, but he was. He was certainly a mental when itcame to sales in terms of like the resilience and mindset and embracingrejection, so yeah I would, I would certainly say him and then I think,what's his last name, Jackman Cyou Lawrence Jackmin, Grat Geni you'll beable to find him on linkon. Now I thin I'd also say like my dad as well. So mydad IV, if any of you followg me on Linken, you see I've, sometimes postvideos and my dad because he's like seventy nine and he's still, he stillvery energet. It runs like half, Marato and dancers, and I think he's alwaystaught me to be very diverse as well as so in the sense that yeah, even ifyou're in sales of course study sales and become the best at sales but thinkabout outside influences like this...

...psychologyand spirituality aspects.That will help you and Sou. So I think he's always helped me to be quite openminded and even when I've chosen particular careers or like, like I said,I've had different elements in my career. He's always been like veryunderstanding in that that aspect, so I think he'he's been a good mensor aswell. Michael I, if folks are listening and they want to get in touch with you,maybe they're inspired. Maybe they want to hire growth genie. What's the bestway to get in touch with you, I'm very active on Linkton, so you can. If yousearch fror me Michael Hanson, growth, Geni ill come up and then just email mem Hanson at growth, Genyco, fortunate ISCO. I couldn't get the DENAMECOM, sojust don't make that mistake as a lot of people do so am Hanson at growth.JENI DCO sounds great, Michael thanks, so much for being on the show and we'lltalk to you on Friday for Friday, fudamentals or so reaa free shit that everybody, Sam Jacobs, really enjoyedthat conversation with Michael Hanson. It's really fun and interestingtakeaways, a couple to think about an highlight that are so practical. Firstof all, their most popular sequence is thirty touches over twenty one daysthat will unnerve certain people, but they say it's effective Michael says:it's effective. Thirty touches over twenty one days when you're using videouse screenshots, don't just make it a video of yourself screenshot theirlinkeon profile, their post for their company website thought that was reallyinteresting in an effective usive video. Are you using linkedon voice messages?Not many people are but they're incredibly effective. So those werejust all great insights when thinking about how to write and drive results,how to get meetings. Finally, their their breakup. So to speak, theirbreakup email asks for feedback. It says feels like now my now Ilbe theright time. I would love it if he could rovide some feedback. Give me someplinters on what I might do to improve this outrease going forward and a lotof people do respond. So I love that...

...part of the conversation and then wemoved over to removing ego from your sales process and how to think aboutthat and how to do that and how to do sort of ego, less sales, not ego fullsales, but ego, less sales, and so much of it comes down to removing yourselffocusing on the other, removing desire from the equation and really focusingon curiosity and embracing the moment, but not putting unde pressure onyourself to get a certain outcome, which is course very difficult, butoften is what's necessary, believing in yourself and removing that negativeSelftalk, so that you can truly believe in Yourselvs and Beeng gauged incurious and epathetic with something else, an easier said than done, but alot of ways you can do it. He mentioned a few books, there's a book that I'veread that I et a lot of value from called the untethered soul. If youhaven't heard about that book, give it a read: It's a spiritual book about howto approach life. What your soul truly is whut. It helps you remove your ego,your emotions, the every day from the true center of your spiritual existence,which is something beyond all of that. That perhaps maybe doesn't even havewords. So that's a book why Michael Singer check it out if you want tothanks again to outreach, remember that if you want to check out how I reachthose outrice go to outrick stadio for slash own outriage, of course, do notforget about on lease two thousand and Twenty One Goud unleast tot outreachedon io to register. For that event, thank you for listening to the SalesHacker podcast. We want to get this in front of more iye an years. Pleaseleave this a shining, five star review. If you want to get in touch with me,you can Linkoncom forde. So last the word n forge last AMF Jacobs. Of course,I will see you next time.

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