The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 7 months ago

163. Objections? You've Already Lost the Deal w/ Neal Patel

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode of the Sales Hacker podcast, we have Neal Patel, the CRO of Crunchbase, an information resource that we all know and love. We talk about why salespeople need to be businesspeople first and why objection handling means that you’ve already lost.

What You’ll Learn

  1. How to marry your ambitions to create success
  2. Lessons in poverty and humility
  3. Ways to connect the dots so you kick ass and take names
  4. Principles of team leadership
  5. Objecting handling means you've already lost
  6. Who motivated and taught Neal along the way

Show Agenda and Timestamps

  1. How to marry your ambitions to create success [7:04]
  2. Lessons in poverty and humility [9:12]
  3. Ways to connect the dots so you kick ass and take names [11:31]
  4. Principles of team leadership [14:58]
  5. Objecting handling means you've already lost [20:11]
  6. Who motivated and taught Neal along the way [25:24]
  7. Sam’s Corner [28:58]

One, two, one, three, hey everybody. Sam Jacobs, welcome to the salesacker podcast. We're incrediblyexcited to have on today's show Neil Patel. He's the chief Revenue Officer of crunchbase. It's a great conversation about some of the non obvious things thatgo into making sales people successful. In addition to answering the question why,if you were objection handling your are you've already lost the deal, which isand he's got a great a great answer there, which ties in a lotof other elements that we talked about during the conversation. So hope you listennow. Before we get there, we've got two sponsors on today's show.The first is, of course, outreach. Outreach is the number one sales engagementplatform. Outreach triples the productivity of sales teams and empowers them to drivepredictable and measurable revenue growth by prioritizing the right activities and scaling customer engagement withintelligent automation. Outreach makes customer facing teams more effective and improves his ability intowhat really drives results. Of course, we have another sponsor. It's anew sponsor. It's a company some of you may have heard of. It'sa company called linked in. Today's virtual selling environment demands a new kind ofapproach, one that prioritizes the buyer above all else. As the world's largestprofessional network with seven hundred and twenty two million members, that is a lotof million members, Linkedin is the only place where buyers and sellers connect,share and drive success for each other. Every day. Find new ways toconnect with your bias virtually. With linkedin sales navigator, you can learn moreor request a freed demo at business dot linkedincom forward sales stations. Again,that URL is business dot linkedincom forward sales solutions. Now, without further dolets list of my conversation with Neil patwl. Hey, everybody, it's Sam Jacob'swelcome to the salescacer podcast. Today we're honored and excited to have onthe show Neil Pat out. Neil is the chief revenue officer of crunch base, a service set of information and Resources and an information resource that we allknow and love. As Cro Neil leads the business development, strategic partnerships,sales, customer success and customer experience organizations.

In this role, Neal and hisorganization of contributed to tripling the company's unique users, increasing annual recurring revenueby over twenty x and landing partnerships with large brands like Linkedin, Oracle,Yahoo, business insider, Amazon and snow flee. Neil has over two decadesof deal making and go to market experience, specifically focusing on executing progressive growth strategies, landing strategic partnerships and building revenue generating streams. Before joining crunch basein two thousand and sixteen, Neil spent a little over eight years of Googleworking on various business development and gytm initiatives, including leading global partnerships for Google search, growing market footprint for Google fiber and helping to expand Google maps.Neil, welcome to the show. Thanks to routs there, we're excited tohave view. So we start with your baseball card. We know your croof crunch base. I kind of mangled the description there at the intro andI'm sure there's a more succinct way of characterizing but let's say there's somebody outthere in the world somewhere that hasn't heard or doesn't know what crunch bases.How would you describe? What you will do? Yeah, sure, so. Crunch base is really the only reasonably accessible place on the Internet you cango to to find organized, normalized information about companies, and that's relevant toany businessperson who interacts with companies or seeks opportunities with companies. So that couldbe salespeople trying to sell it could be the other side of it, buyerstrying to buy things. It could be investors and entrepreneur is trying to coffectwith each other. It could be job seekers, recruiters, market researchers andso on, and are what we're trying to do a crunch bas is,basically unlock access to this information and help people pursue those opportunities. That's ourmission and that's why we show up to work every day. Well, that'sawesome. And then, as a frequent user, I am appreciative of theservice and of the information that you make public, because it's otherwise, toyour point, incredibly difficult to find it. How big is the organization? Youknow we I know about crunch base...

...as a you know, as theservice that I use. But what's the company like? How big is it? How bigs your sales team? What are you selling exactly? Those areinteresting questions for us. Yeah, sure. So we were about a little overa hundred fifty employees now and growing. So that's that numbers a moving targetupwards every day. And the the kind of Revenue Org is is abouttwenty five percent of that ish, maybe a little bit more. And youknow, I think you ask what we sell. Is that right? Isthat yeah, yeah, because I'm not sure. Is it's sponsorships? Isit paid membership? Great Strings, great question, great questions. So so, as I mentioned, like what we try to do is help people findcompanies that they should be pursuing opportunity with, understand and gain insights about those companies. Sometimes we recommend companies to people and then we help them connect withthose companies and ultimately engage and close opportunities. And whatever context is, whether you'reobviously in sales or if you're an investor or entrepreneur look for funding,if Your Business Development team trying to find partners, job seekers and so on. And the way we what we the services we provide to enable people todo that. Our kind of span a spectrum, if you will. Sowe offer a free service, so you can just come to crunch space andcheck out our profile. So companies and if that helps you understand a littlebit more about a company, your you're looking to do to pursue an opportunitywith, that's great. If you find a new company, that's great,and you can go off and get some value out of crunch space then andwe're happy to help you with that. If you want a little bit formore functionality, we ask people to register. That's also free, obviously in amonetary sense. When you register, we obviously let us know a littlebit about you and therefore we can like recommend better experience for you in theproduct showcase companies that we think you might care about. We need able tocreate lists and things like that, save lists and so on. Then itjust follows sort of a premium path where, if you want, if you wanteven more functional, be more access to different things, we have astarter skew tell people get get a little bit more valuable we're doing. Andthen one of the top use cases on sun punt face our sales people tryingto get those insights about companies, trying...

...to build their prospecting lists and tryingto engage with those prospects, and we have a we have a product that'stailored for them, which is called crunchybace pro. That's great for people thatwant to come to crunch face and and utilize our platform and engage within ourplatform and sort of like conductor or workflow within our platform. But we alsohave a lot of people who already have their own tools and really urged inworking with count face from a perspective of Hey, can you can I get? Can you integrate with the tools that I have? So your data feedsmy tools and we integrate via application integrations that we've built. And you canalso integrate, but by licensing rapi and our data directly and and then ingestedin your internal tools to help you do the things that I talked about before. Or, alternatively, you may want to build your own application on topof crunch base, and we let you do that too. So we I'mcry top of Crunch Bas Day. Will you do that too, so youcan come to crunch base, take our data and build your own product andhelp the world in different ways, whatever way you see you deem valuable basedon the information of crunch base has. That is a complete and robust descriptionand eliminating. So so thank you for that. You've been there a longtime. You've been there since two thousand and sixteen, but we're always curioushow people got into sort of the the journey of revenue leadership in the firstplace. You, I also mentioned, of course, that you were instrateaching partnership to Google and you spend a long time at Google. But howdid you first enter the go to market field and what's your background that ledyou here? Yeah, a great question. My background is I'd love to tellyou that, you know, fifteen years ago or twenty years ago,I had a I had a vision for exactly what I was going to doand I was going to be a crow Wenday. But that's a total lie. I don't even think there was a there was a job titled Crrow.I think it's pretty news. So I've been fortunate enough to have people aroundme in my life and to have opportunities with themselves up where it's enabled meto really pursue some things that I thought were interesting and skill sets that Ithought were valuable to add to me,...

...like to make myself just more betterbusiness person and many in some cases, just a better person. So youknow my path. You can you guys you can see from linkedin or andsuch, I was an engineer who then went to law school. You know, I basically I liked math and science and therefore I would became became anengineer. But I I also recognize that there were things that were hard forme, number one, persuading people to do things or reading writing persuasively.I was a little shy. So, you know, like like any anywise person, I just to go better way to develop in those areas thango to law school and get and jump into the fire. But it allserious as I also recognize that, you know, there was just coming from, you know, my eye background, my whole fan really, like Bilin, really was a lawyer in the United States and our families here by extendedfamilies here, and so I thought it would be good for someone in thefamily to understand, understand the law, understand policy, understand how things workedon at that level here, and so was a good marriage at those twothose who like ambitions I had, I probably saw for a while. Iliked a lot, but not that I find myself being more interested in thebusiness side of the transactions I was working on. Why was this company acquiringthat company? Why I was just company getting funding. What was you doing? That was the work that you were doing in the law. You're doingthe corporate transaction or corporate attorney. That's correct. Yeah, yeah, andit was great. But again, like as I as my interest became morealigned with the business side of think or started to sort of gravitating to abusiness. I thinks, I realize that that's that's probably where I want.That the kind of space I wanted to be in. And, to behonest, at that time I didn't even know it go to market ment,much less like anything beyond that. I didn't even know what kind of like, what kind of industry I would valuable in, what role I would bevaluable in. And so I took some time to to think that through and, long story short, I decided what better way to get exposure and becomegood at business than to start my own company. So I wisely started acompany with this idea that I had, with a few friends. It wasn'ta financial success, but it was a...

...great learning and it led me toa place where I could talk to some people from Google and I got anopportunity to join Google maps early on in a business development rolled helped help buildthat Pott. What about what was the company that you started? We madeit's gone now, it's long gone, but we made organic, sustainably madechildren's close with an Eastern Asian esthetic. So I called it baby diesel witha side Amassala. I mean that's it sounds like. I'm sure there's amarket for that, but it was. It was it was lack of resources, or what do you attribute it was? I would love to tell you it. You know, we started the company. I would let me tellyou was rat lack of resources or other things that there were. There area few things that didn't go our way, but one of them is simply timingand also just some some some mistakes. We make it we made along theway, to be honest, but they were good lessons learned. Youknow, my cofinders and that business were still super tight. We've all goneon to do other things and and I think we look back upon that timepretty like with smiles on our faces, because it was. It was reallyfun and and made us appreciate some of the things we didn't know. Wedidn't know. I started a business when I first got out of UNDERGRAD andI call those days it failed, as my business failed, and I calledit the bad old days. When I refer to that's right, the threeI learned a lot lessons and poverty and humility. That's what I say.That's exactly right. Right. So you got to Google and you join theGoogle maps team, but still in this in this history, there's no likeformal kind of go to market train or sales training, and yet it's prettyclear that you've become really, really good at it over the last decade orso. What was the moment that crystallise where you sort of Said, Oh, I get it, I'm a there's a new thing called chief for evenofficer, or head of sales or head of revenue. That's the person thatI am. I helped companies grow their revenue. Yeah, it continued tofollow that path and me just opening up my eyes to different, different thingsI wanted to get good at. So...

...at Google, like I started doing, it was obviously a business development Google maps, which involved a lot ofthings that were analogous to what I was doing as a lawyer and in thebusiness owner, which was thinking about markets, what markets to go to, whythey were important markets, taking resourcing. The Google gave us and trying tofigure out how to expand the product, grow the product, doing deal structuring, deals, negotiating deals, working with partners after the deals to makesure things were working the way we both intended. And in many ways,like I was, I was selling right, you're always selling, like, actually, somebody who was just telling me yesterday, like even a doctor cells, they've got to sell. A surgeon has to sell you on the ideaof them cutting you open. And I realized that that skill was something thatwas there in many people that are higher up at Google and even peers thatI just respected, and so I started trying to find ways where, youknow, I could just learn about learn about sales and learn about customers.I got really good at Biz Dev and partnerships and understanding markets and market penetrationsthings like that. But but I really wanted to get into that other sideof the business, which is which was like, quite frankly, just howdo you set up repeatable, scalable ways to make money right? And thatled me to doing things like advising startups on that front. And, youknow, Google, still love that company. There's a great place, and meta lot of great people that taught me lots of great lessons. Sobetween those two kind of avenues I didn't have like a moment where I waslike Oh, this would be something cool to do, but an opportunity surfaceto leave, to go join a start up and be be a CR row. So I left then join that startup and it was a brief stint asa crow, as a different kind of company. We was mostly large dealdriven, which kind of married well with my Bisdev experience, but we solda company really fast after I joined and then I had another opportunity service atcrunch base and that's when it all kind of came together where my build up, if you like, all the dots that I had, using an oldsteve jobs graduation speech to connect the dots, I kind of at that moment Iwas like wow, I can connect my dots here, all these littledifferent skills and experiences I've had. Crunch...

...base is the type of company andthe people here that are like there's an opportunity where I could I could reallyfit well here and I could add a lot of value and I could learna lot, and that's when the pats started to kind of for me beinglike yeah, this is this is opportunity going to pursue and luckily I gotthe job and here we are and five years later you're kicking ass and takea names. Well, that's not that's an awesome, awesome journey, andyou know, you've seen so many different perspectives and I guess I'm carrying us. You know, when you think about the you now run an organization.I guess twenty five percent of you know, one hundred and fifty is, Idon't know, forty five people, I guess, or forty nine.Maybe it's not. It's thirty five people, but it's a lot of people.Yes, right, I think I may have got the percentage wrong.It's about for you, somewhere between forty five fish people. As there's mybad meth saves me again. Right, I don't better be lucky than right. That's just agree completely. What do you what have you learned in termsof leading teams, in terms of the principles that you use to coach andlead these people? How you teach them? I know that one of the thingsthat you've talked about is they need to be business people first. Whatare your principles of leadership as you think about leading refn organization? Yeah,good question. So just in terms of principles, I think it's really it'sa few things, you know. I think first and foremost, like Ilearned along the way to really like my I do best when I'm when Iam radically authentic, like if you talk to my team, like they will, there is there are no different versions of meal. I am who Iam and then and I'm super, super authentic. It sometimes to a flaw, but I believe like that is the foundation from which I can become agood leader. And I know people through around the world be authentic a lotthese days. But you really have to understand authenticy come comes in many manifestsin many places, right. So I like all the jokes. I liketo be funny, I like to like...

...to make fun of people sometimes,you know, hopefully a good way. I'm also self deprecating. I've foldedthat into my leadership stuff, right, and I bring it up in everydayconversations. You know, I'm also highly, highly, sometimes overly energetic. SometimesI don't try to hide that stuff. I just mold my leadership style aroundthose things that naturally just occur in me and I think that's important atit. You know, there's times in the past when I haven't been agood leader and how many times it's because I was trying to be somebody thatI wasn't. So I think that's a one really important thing. Other thingswhat you talked about. So I don't necessarily you know, like obviously peoplecome to a company and joined teams like ours to perform in certain roles,but you hopefully, you know, hope, you hopefully you're going to perform inthat role and helping you execute in that particular role and in winning isamazing and awesome and definitely a huge part of my job. I you know, I love that. You know, everyone loves, loves, like shejust said, kick an acid taken names winning. It's great, but peoplealso need to feel like, you know, like they're growing and there's a purposeand what they're doing. And for us, like we've found it inliked and like helping people just generally become better business. People like you willmentor a mindset this. So I don't want to steal it, but I'llquote and he said you will learn, you will learn and you will grow, and that's what we try to that's that's the opportunity to try to pridepeople and growing means grow as a business person. So body water. Whatare some of the things that you teach? You know, what are some ofthe things that when people join the organization, maybe you're surprised or you'velearned that they don't know and that when you talk about teaching them to bebusiness people, that you know, it's coming to mind for you as yousay it, that these are the some of the lessons that we impart becausepeople don't come into the organization with that knowledge. Sure, it's a sometimeit's really simple and it can be. It can be folded into transparency practicesthe people have right. So, like we try to make people understand likenot just what their job is and what...

...their team does, but what otherteams do and why those things are important, and what other organizations in Corntas doand why those things are important. What crunch bases overall strategy is,why that is the right strategy, what the questions are that maybe are uncertain, that we have uncertainty on respect to executing that strategy, how that fitsin the broader market. Like these are things we talked about a lot ona team. So just having that higher level view is one aspect of it, like word, is what I do fit into the big picture. Whoare all the other players and why are they doing what they are doing?Is something that's that's ever present in our conversations and in even in like youknow, we had had a queer path conversation with an a earlier this morning. We make that part of their career path to not just expose them toit but but require them to demonstrate that they're that they're picking up on thesethings and applying it and not the not only the context we provide. Wewe teach them in it, but applying it to other contexts. It's alsothis kind of blend, a kind of transitions into like selling. Like oneof the things I tell my sales team is you should understand the business ofyour prospect very deeply, more than you should, like consid, in somecases more than you should even understand the person who you're POC is, becauseif you don't know about that company, you don't know about their industry,the trends in the industry, who they compete with, how they're doing personallywith that person that as an entity within that space, are they growing?Are they're shrinking? If they're growing. Why are they growing? What arethe challenges they're facing? If you're able to to even poke a little bitat that, all of a sudden, the person on the other side ofthe you know, this side of the zoom call, I guess these days, you know, views you in a different light. Right you're not someonewho's just trying to who just knocked on my door, if you will,just trying to pitch me something. You have some level of, hopefully serious, understanding of what I'm going through, all my over going, my companiesgoing through, and if I'm actually situated to get value from the thing you'retrying to sell to me, I view that as being good business. Rightlike that. Those are those are companies. You want to do that your physicscomes you want to do business with...

...and they should want to do businesswith you. So then your job as a salesperson is simply to connect thosedots, which is a way better perspective, in my opinion, to approach asales process. I love it. One of the things that you've mentionedis you think that objection handling means you've already lost. Explain, because that'sa pretty controversial statement, which is great for podcast fodder. But what whatdo you mean when you say that? And you know, what should peopledo instead? Yeah, well, it's it is a little bit. It'sdefinitely a dramatic statement and I certainly, like we do buzz, need aheadline. Hold it totally. It is a forget. When I first saidI think I set it out in all hands just to get people to listento me, because I think I was at the worked out I was beingboring and I recognized I was being boring, so I said, let me throwthis out there and see what people see, what happens. So,of course, just a level set like, yes, like, you do haveto have to prep your team to handle objections. that. That isnot that is not what I'm saying at all. Like we have that.We do at a crunch base. I think that's a good thing to do, but the year immediately undermind. Once that to the articles. But thesubjection should be very baseline, simple things. Right, you objection, handle alower level question or problem or issue, like you know you have a kilsheetto deal with a competitor, for example. You know, I'm goingto go at XYC, competitor of yours. Yes, you objection handle that.But what I really mean by that is is creating context for your successthrough all of the interactions you're having with a potential prospect. If you arethinking, if you so, using the example I just gave about understanding acompany, if you understand a company deeply and you know, or believe,I guess, that they are situated well to buy for on you and thatthey will get value from this, you can set contact. Some people callit control the message, but you can set context through your engagement with thatprospect so that that that is the the...

...tone of the conversation is already there. Like you don't have to objection handle anything and turn like all those thingsabout. Well, I don't know if this is a you know, needto have and this might be a nice to have. You should already knowthat. Right if your objection handling need to have versus nice to have,you've lost. You should be approaching prospects from the perspective and have a planin place for its immediate upfront. Right now, you we are a needto have and you know that prospect and we're going to talk, we're goingto we're going to talk about things from that perspective and that comes from preparingand understand the account. It comes from understanding your product super well, right. That's the other part of creating context resists. You really have to understandyour product, understand all the different use cases, understand how different personas,meaning and user personas, might be interacting with your product and what they're doing, what they like, what they don't like. Right. So, whenyou approach your prospect you very much like you have sort of you have avery now like agile set of frameworks and sets of conversation lines, if youwill, in your in your head or hopefully documented in front of you.Said, no matter what direction this conversation goes, you are not handling anobjection being being push toward you. You are more directing a conversation and whatevercontext gets raised, you can still move forward in that context, and that'swhy I like. If you do that right, you actually you probably neverget any serious objections you have to handle. You will just continually navigate different contextsand worst case you might hit had an impast but worst case that impasswill will be well, let's just talk again, because we need to thinkabout some things. And so your point really is exactly to your point if, if you are handling those objections, it means you didn't prepare well enoughat the outset and didn't control the conversation from the beginning and now you're backpeddling that. I right. That's right. How'd you learn? Like, howdid you quit? How did all of that crystallize for you? Because, I mean, is it that you...

...took, you know, training throughforce management or something like that, or is it just we're repetition? BecauseI think it's a it's a fairly sophisticated perspective on selling. A lot ofpeople are just completely focused on the right type of salesperson or just running theright sales process, but not really on preparation, context and understanding. Howdid you develop these ideas or did they just come to you over the yearsof experience? Yeah, I think question. So part of it is it's ablend of things that like just obviously, I think, just pulling from mydifferent experiences. So an element of this, for example, is beingable to plan ahead so no matter what this process won remember what direction thisconversation goes. I have I can introduce a beachhead from which I can takethings forward, right, and that comes from literally just contingency planning. Right. It's very simple, right. I if you just say like, okay, I'm going to play through this scenario. How is this called we go,or how is this meeting going to go? Here in the different directionsthat can go, and I'm going to create each of this inn ours.I'm going to have a plan for each of this in ours. That issomething really like a very basic element of like deal structuring, dealmaking business development. So I got some of that training, you know, when I was atGoogle doing bd. But you can apply that to a sales context.It all of a sudden gets gets pretty, it makes sense and it gets reallypowerful and when applied to the the approach of creating context for success makesa lot of sense. Nail, we're almost at the end of our timetogether and one of the things we like to do at the end is geta sense for your influences, people or ideas or books. It's really anythingyou want us to know. You know you're recommended list. It's one ortwo ideas, things, people, human beings that have had particular influence onyou that you want us to know about so that we can follow the breadpum trail and pay it forward a little bit. When you think about peoplethat have had a really big impact on you or people that you think weshould know about, who comes to mind? Oh Wow, good question. Sothere are a lot of people that have helped me and along the way, and I'm going to Ripphilo. So...

...there are. You know, I'vebeen remissage to say like like some of this isn't going to be relevant toyour audience, because there's a lot of people just like my family, youknow, like my parents, like not going to go on this podcast,but one day when we get out of beer, I'll tell you a storyof like what my mom and dad did, how they like how they came tobe here in the challenge they had right. So the things like thatmotivated me. I think there's lots of people out that have those stories abouttheir families. To when I think about public personas, the sounds nuts,but to simple in a sense, like very obvious. But I just gaveyou a quote from seed jobs commencement address about connecting the dots. There arethings like that that for that, if you if you read about him inthe early days, that I think are really valuable. And then it helpedme it sounds it sounds like a cop out to say see jobs. Ithink a lot of people say things like that, but I really have,like I've I've read. I've read about his life. I know, Idon't I know he has lots of loss there's things like that, but thereare really discreet things that he did that I think are super valuable and thereare other folks like that out there that I'm trying to think of the topof my head, other folks that I can't think. That kind of gotme on the spot because I wasn't I'm sorry, I wasn't very sad ofthinking about other people are completely considered really as no, but yeah, Imean, that's okay. Steve Jobs is a good answer. And and it'snot irrelevant to say your parents, because they you know, I would thefirst person I typically mentioned is my mom. I Love My dad too, Ilove them, but my mom as a special as a special place andjust in terms of her work ethic and her discipline. And Anyway, Iwill. I will now that I have a quick second. Thank you forgiving me this space to yeah, you're alcome. I was awesome. Thatwas awesome. I read a lot of Ray Dahlia. There's a book hewrote that's very popular called principles. I think like that. That is abook I would recommend reading, I think. I think that's pretty cool. Andthen this isn't. But this isn't...

...really unnecessarily a person per se,but like there's a lot of folks this, but there are a few folks thatthey that practice something called mindfulness, and I think that's a really importantthing. Do we google search on mindfulness? Mindfulness, meditation, my mindfulness awarenlike behavior and just learning about that and trying to apply to my booth, my personal professional life has helped me a lot. Mine too. Neil, if folks are listening and they want to get in touch with you,maybe they want to work for you, maybe they want to buy some crunchbase. What's your prefer myth of communication? How should people reach out to you? Send a message up on Linkedin, easiest, simplest place. Awesome.Thanks so much for joining us. We're going to talk to you onFriday for Friday fundamentals and thank you for being our guest on the Sales Sydeof podcast. Thanks and was great to be here. Appreciate everyone. It'sSam Jacobs. You're listening to SAM's corner. I really enjoyed that conversation with me. To tell you can really tell that he's he's got exactly the rightexecutive temperament that one needs to succeed at companies these days, because he's passionateand energetic but also calm. That's the sense that I got from and atleast maybe I was misreading it, but I think he's probably a great leaderand Presch Bass obviously done fantastic work over the five years that he's been there. So what did we talk about that stuck out to me? Two thingsof import that I thought were interesting, and the first is really this conceptthat they talked about that sales people need to be business people first, andI think I just want to underscore that. I obviously mode most of you know, I I'm the CE of a company called revenue collective and we havethis thing chief for every officer school, Cro School, and one of thefirst classes we teach is this class that I teach called theory of enterprise value. And what's the point that I'm making? So many sales leader, so manysales people, they do not have a theory of value. They don'tunderstand. They haven't thought about what makes companies great. And I don't meanhow many how much money companies have praised.

I don't mean WHO's the most famouscompany. I mean the mechanics that make companies function, the context inwhich company sit and what are the things that companies do in order to driveand generate value. And that's something that Neil spends time teaching a sales teamand, as he as he points out, what that does is it helps thesalespeople focus on one of the thing he didn't say it explicitly, butthis is one of the things that happens is you focus on outcomes. Youfocus on business outcomes, not products and features of your service, because youare you're displaying empathy, you are thinking about the world old from the perspectiveof how business is generate value, particularly your prospects. He also mentioned thatjust internal education about how the company works, why it's organized in a certain way, what the strategy is. All of that is contexts and context isthe thing that helps you understand how to make decisions when you're on your own. And so I might I think it's just a really important point, andeven at the VP of sales and CRO level. The reason that we teachit at zero school and revenue collective is because not enough people do know itand you make a lot of bad decisions when you don't understand fundamentally how businessesoperate and you think that the only way to grow revenues to hire tons andtons of salespeople. So I thought that was really interesting. And then Ithought the point that he made about, you know, why objection and handlingmeans that you've already lost is really interesting. Obviously not the common objections, butthe thing he said is, if it's if you're debating need to haveversus nice to have with your prospect, you've already lost. Completely agree withthat. It's all about you know. He used a phrase that was popularas by force management, command of the message. Take Control of the message, command the message and then you can control the conversation a specific way.Doesn't mean talk over your prospect you means have a narrative that you can leverage, that answers questions in advance and anticipates objections and underscores why those aren't reallyobjection. So I thought it was a great conversation. Thanks for listening.If you're not a part of the salesacker community. Yet you're missing out.So any sale professional can join the salesacer community to ask questions, get immediateanswers and share experiences with likelinded be to be sales pros. Jump in thestarted discussion with more than tenzero sales professionals...

...at sales hackercom. Of course,we want to thank our two sponsors, linked in. Thank you, linkedin. You're a great company. We love you, Linkedin, and just thatthey're find new ways to connect with your bier virtually with linkedin sales navigator.Who doesn't need sales navigator? You can learn more request of Free Demo,though you are. I'll just remind you of business dot linked incom for slashsales solutions. That's business dot linked incom for slash sales solutions. Also,of course, we always want to thank outreach, the number one sales engagementplot form. Thank you for listening. If you wouldn't be so kind,or if you would be so kind as to give us a five star reviewon the itunes store, please do that. When I have a four point five, which I know who's out there like rating podcasts negatively. I don'teven have time to write podcast at all, let alone go on there and likeshit on somebody. But Anyway, maybe I'm greatness and maybe maybe Imade an enemy somewhere. I was just trying to pull up the PODCAST andended up hitting play. Sorry for the for the audio intrusion, but anyway, the point is along the side. The point is please it's five starson the ITUNES store. And by the way, if you'd like to getin touch with me, you can find me on linked in at linkedincom forward, slash the word in for MF Jacobs. You can email me Sam. Thatreven it quick, thecom that's the company around that maybe you should join. And of course, I will see you next time.

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