The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 months ago

175. Protecting Migrant Children: International Social Service w/ Jean Ayoub

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode of the Sales Hacker Podcast, we have Jean Ayoub, Secretary General and CEO at International Social Service (ISS), a nonprofit organization that specializes in complex cross-border case management to protect migrant children. Join us for a convicting conversation about some of the challenges facing workers who reunite children with families and how sales plays into their success.

What You’ll Learn

  1. What ISS is and the work it does
  2. Challenges that advocates for migrant children face
  3. How Jean came to work with nonprofits
  4. Fundraising, financing, sales skills, and advocacy awareness

Show Agenda and Timestamps

  1. About Jean Ayoub & ISS [4:50]
  2. Challenges facing advocates for migrant children [10:14]
  3. Jean’s love for nonprofits [13:28]
  4. Migratory patterns and causes for separation [15:48]
  5. How sales is present in nonprofits [19:45]
  6. Sam’s Corner [26:03] 

One two one: Three: Three: Everybody at Sam takes welcome to thesales hacker podcast. Today, we've got a very special kind of guest, one thatwe really haven't had before, and it's because we and I want to bring youvoices that are not just exclusively from the world of start up sales butvoices from around the world so that maybe we can introduce some differentperspectives, while we're still always focused, of course, on. What's theright, a SDR ratio and why great is the most important thing and Blah Blah Blah.There are a lot of other things that are going on in the world, so thisweek's guest is Jan Ayoub. Jean is the secretary general and C of anorganization called ISS International Social Services. It's an incredibleorganizations, a nonprofit focused on assisting individual children when theyare separated from their parents due to migratory issues, meeting refugees,people that are fleeing a dangerous situation, they're fling an earthquakethere fleeing a civil war and they are on their way to a place that they hopeis safer and bad things happen when they're on that journey. They getseparated from their parents, they get thrown into cages, they they areadopted out illegally or inappropriately, or unethically. So somany different bad things can happen to children when they are in the midst offlying a bad situation in the hopes of pursuing a better life and ISS comes inand advocates on specific individual children, and I think they process overseventy thousand different cases every single year trying to reunite childrenwith their parents and make sure that children find a safe place and, ofcourse sales is part of that, because John is selling by virtue ofstorytelling and telling people about the organization, so there's, of course,a sales element, but it's also just an attempt to bring some differentperspectives to the show. Now before we get to the interview, we've got acouple sponsors. The first is out reach out. Reach has been a long time sponsorthe podcast. They just launched a new way to learn. Outreach on out reachesthe place to learn how outreach does...

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...without further do looks. Listen to myinterview, Bujan AUB, everybody at Sam Jacobs. Welcome to the Sales Hackerpodcast today on the show we've got Jean Ayub Jean is well. Let me read youas bio he's, the secretary general and CEO of ISS, so this is going to be adifferent kind of show than we normally have, because we're talking to somebodythat runs a nonprofit focused on saving children, which is pretty amazing. Butlet me rejouis bio, with the beginning in the Red Cross as a volunteer andbecoming operations director during the Lebanese civil war. John served fieldmissions for the, if RC, before, relocating to Geneva, to design andmanage response to worldwide disasters. As US G and director of operations, theturn of the century Jean operated several years as a consultant dealingmainly with Turnarounds Change, Management and coaching. Since twothousand and nine John has been the secretary general and ce of ISS leadingthe transformation of the organization ahead of its a hundred anniversary intwo thousand and twenty four John has a deep understanding of the worldhumanitarian social affairs as a solid organizational vision. Is a strategicthinker committed to organizational change in the digital age, John'spassionate about having a role to make our battered world a better place to beworking to enable his organizations to assume a substantial role supportingchildren separated from their families along migration roots through crossborder case management and High Level Advocacy? Joan welcome to the showhello, Sam. I know everybody and thank you for having me we're excited to haveyou so I read. I read the Bio, but first of all we want to understand. Isaid ISS, but most people that are listening, don't know what ISS standsfor or what it is. So what is? I assess the organization that you run? That'spretty common. Actually, I never heard about ISS before joining ISS. It is aninternational organization to day ninety seven years old and it's veryspecialized in case by case cross border case management. In the sense,if you are migrating from country a to come, contremet, say Mexico to UnitedStates, and then you fall in Famaly,...

...don't have papers, you don't haveaccess to health care education, you don't know your rights in the countryin your in the host country and things like that. This is why I SSP, forexample, comes into into the picture and trying to help you as a Micranthamigration routes and try to check with you with the authoritieswhat other actors? What is your best interest, because we did mainly withchildren adolesence that means less than eighteen years old, and then we dothese. These custom checks wi no inquiries in your home tile. Whethergoing back would be in your best interest and whenever we have therecommendation to do, we do that in usually authorities, courts, lawyersand so and so forth. They follow their advice and we work mainly again. Let mestress on that on day for the best interest of the child, so this is whatwe do daily and for he er basis, we have seventy sand cases of those allaround the world. We have about a hundred and twenty offices around theworld, and this is our CO business. One Cor business to is, of course, atbocace everything which is linked to child protection on the migration whowould searching for their origins adopted, and they were to learn whowere their biological parents born out of sogogo proteges and they want toknow who was the mother and so on and so forth. This is what we do.Essentially, what does I s stand for international social service. Ninetyseven years ago we were called the International Migration Service, andsince the S and there we was a UN agency created Cold InternationalOrganization for Migration, we changed our name to focus more on the nature ofour services. Some, I think, what's what's really important, is just to goback in ninety seven years ago, probably a bit more, this entireorganization was born to a company. All those people leaving Europe, the MiddleEast and even even further in Asia,...

...wanted all to go mainly to NorthAmerica, to Alice Islands and all these inmigracion sides we all know for theUnited States and or for Canada basically and I assess, was bornactually to accompany these people. We were so that on the sea shows in spotsand then we take them their names. We take their destination, we take whatthey can do and on the other side they say Alice Island we have is socialworkers waiting to greet these people coming and try to Orient. Many of themdid not speak English. Many of them did not know where they go, and this iswhere our ass people on the other side of the Atlantic, but tim this is the IDactually was born like that and since then it is the same. We help people out the migration would but more willto fit time. We focus much more round children today. Seventy seventy fivepercent of our case, what is essentially children and families, sojust for the audience to play it back. So the point here that we're talking toJean is he runs an organization. Children are separated from theirfamilies. We've all heard about it at the board of the United States over thepast a couple of years, as more people have tried to migrate to the UnitedStates and this organization, which is an incredible organization, helpschildren manage this whole process, hopefully reconnecting them to theirparents and other issues related to advocacy. What are the biggestchallenges that y? I mean there are so many challenges that you face on, butwhat are the biggest challenges that you face as you pursue this work oftrying to advocate on behalf of my grandchildren, I think our three levelsof challenge the first one is social legal, because, when you cross from onecountry to another country, obviously lost than to change culture than tochange, sometimes language and to change, and then we end up with people,not understanding each other, and we need to facilitate that process. Thesecond challenge will be the authorities themselves, the receivingauthorities, for example, how much the knowledgeable about the national newsabout Tefi Ges and, as I am takers and...

...miners, should be put them in my aminimum security prisons, should we separate them from their families andso on to so forth and the last? Last but not least, not least, the problemis funding of all that, because most of our cases that are not attended tofinancially speaking, we are not into mass mass assistance, like the otherinternational enjoys the Red Cross, the UN system and so on and so forth is,cannot pretend to be present in a camp. Helping three thousand people, whichmakes our job and fundraising is er. What we can relate to is that what wecan communicate on and give information about is that we do case by case caseby case one after the other diligently tailoring individual solutions forpersonal problems, and this obviously is much more difficult to fund race.For then, what I will call mass assistance. How do you pick which casesyou take on if there's three thousand people in a camp, as you said, andyou're trying to help as many as possible? How do you select who youhelp and who you don't help? Actually we don't select? We are called upon forthe most compli cases for those cases who the traditional actors, thetraditional agencies, do not find solutions for sometimes in a effigiem.You have a lot of gives had a lot of good will workers humanitarian workersdealing with the relief issues, like you know, proposing shelter, proposingfull proposing some form of protection, water and so on and so forth that someof the needs within these refugee, as silentia populations and the effigy capis not related to relieve, is not related to first necessities of sides.So silians it's just it's related to more. Let's say existence, issues likebeing reunited with the family, applauds or being e moted back to theircountry of origin and so on and so forth, and these kind of accidentexpertise is not all the time imbedded...

...with humanitarian workers andcaregivers. So this is. We do not get to select our cases, fortunately orunfortunately, we are alerted upon by these organizations by the campmanagers by the authorities when it comes to complex individual cases. I have many questions, but let's gothrough your bio. I read your bio a lot of acronyms in there again, for youknow an audience of sales, people and marketing people working at you knowstartups. They may not know those acronyms tell us about how you got D d.You took on this position, tell us about your background and how you cameto work in nonprofit specifically focused on children. Well, you know I get to be very fairfor to for to my history. I can to work with non profits and mentainorganizations completely by chance. When I was about seventeen, I wanted totake my girlfriend to one of the Greek ilands and I have a good time we werein a country. My country of origin was never known it. We I we were in themiddle of a civil war. She said no, this is no sense. We stay in thecountry and we have we johndrew as volunteers. Basically, and the deal wasthat we spent the summer helping out the Red Cross as volunteers during theworld. Then in September we will go and do our vacation or something like that.So we went in two or three weeks later. She was fed up four and snipers andsharp nails and bonds and bombing and things that actually wanted out. Butactually I got the heck of it. I got the hang of it and I liked it very much,and I say actually I liked it that much as I stayed thirty years with theRadcaster, a national Redco then after that you know, I was director.Operations have designed a new disaster response system for the InternationalGadgols for natural disasters set up blow bery and it was up and running andI'm someone who needs the ahearn and someone to needs to see change everyday. But of course, for me changes the only constant thing is life, so I saidto myself: I leave my position and- and I did that for all this personalreasons as well, and then I establish...

...myself as a consult of mainly in turnaround an organization building and in coaching. This is where I discover thatactually can you can do a lot? You can get a lot of money as a consultantsometimes doing the job of somebody else who doesn't like was not qualifiedto do this job. But that's beside the point, but I discovered as well that Iwas bored like Helen. I wanted back the action in terms of not only doing theaction myself but doing the action with teams with real people with rescenarios with Er an impact on the field and international social service.With one of my will be a client and to make a longstory show, they asked me for a project to re design, re formulate theorganization in the turnaround management style. I think they like myproject, but I told me that I'm very expensive as a consultant and theyoffered me to be there to you. This is how I got er, so you're cheaper as aCEO than as a consultant. Absolutely I can confirm that so well, I have a couple questions justabout about the organization and also about the policies that you advocatefor so first we've seen a lot of migration due to political instability.You know from Central America and and Latin America up through Mexico andinto to the border, at least in the United States, and then, of course,there's a lot of migration due to political unrest and at war, and thingslike that. Coming from Africa and different parts of the Middle East intoEurope and there's a lot of different perspectives on the acceptability ofmigration, what the immigration law should be and there's you know, there'sa pot there's, sometimes a domestic quasi nationalist point of view thatyou know we need to that. People need to keep the borders closed, there's adifferent perspective. That countries need to let people in especially whenthey're in times of crisis and there's rules and regulations and asylum lawsaround that. What's the ISSS position, particularly because, as we look out atclimate change, the reality that there...

...will be much more mass migration fromvery hot places to cooler places is only going to increase, and theseissues that you are advocating on behalf of are only going to become moreprominent. So what policies do you think we should have in mind ascivilians looking out at the world and looking out at migratory patterns? Ithink, as far as I ass is concerned, I'll be very frank with you. We do givelittle detail of the nature of migration. There's migration, themigration for many reasons, and you talked about them from civil go- wasinto the staff economy, link to environment, Ling, to change patternsin the weather, deforestation and so on and so forth. We don't really get intothat since we are in the case by case testes, since we tend to inherit allthe coble cases that other organizers, you do not do not find solution for notbecause they don't want to it, because it's not their Manda, the are more morein mass, in my assistance and so on and so forth. So we care a little about theorigin of the migration. As long as one person, one family well tried, findsher son for himself on the Migration Road Ford into trouble needs ISS andits mandate. We are there, we don't really differentiate between this typeof migration and that type of migration and my personal opinion and suggestionSam that as an individual. I think we need to look at migration like that,not because it's a simple way to focus on the individual and not on the courseen I, as long as child xn arrives to the United States many since it doesn'treally help whether he was executed in his home ten, whether he just beltthere, because I went to the masses because he's seeking a better sociallife, a better life in general, whether he was he was running away from floodsfrom earthquakes, for man made disaster...

...so and so forth. The reason is notreally important and I say that to be a to to understand it as an individual,because we all can find ourselves in a migrant and a migration situation. I'mmyself and an economical migrant I was, I was Baratier tions of Lebanese getcross during the war, the war. I think I've done a good job. With my team onthe World War was offered. I had gained specific expertise in war situation, sosearch and rescue ref and on and so forth. So so I went off my went off mycountry as a migrant to other countries to benefit, so they can benefit from myexpertise and I can benefit from a mite international expatriate salary. We allcan become for one reason or another, a migrant and a globalized world, and thebest way to understand this. This situation is actually trying to applyto ourselves on individual ever interesting. Well, I guess one questionyou know is because it's a sale, specific audience talk to us about howsales is present in what you do. It seems like part of one of your biggestjobs is, is advocacy so that you can drive fundraising so that you have themoney to deploy into the offices so that you have the case workers that canhandle each individual's issues as you take them on what goes into fundraising what goes into making sure that your financed appropriately so that youcan run the organization talk to us about the sale skills that you'vedeveloped over the years. This says till this is what the skills I'm usingtoday to talk to you, Sam and I'm really grateful for this opportunity.Is The story tating today the case workers, the social workers, are reallyman. Italians were about a couple of decades ago, come of the gate to go. Imyself, as you humanitarian, I would say, I'm doing a good job. I'm of myfamily, I'm doing long hours, I'm underpaid over over work, and you knowstop asking me question and give me...

...some support to be able to do my job.But you know the globalized world in the world was a more and morecompetition on humanitarian side. On the social side, we need to be a littlebit more vocal. We need to be a little bit more open to extract thisinformation we hold. Even if it's individual cases, we late that to theworld, explain that what we do in a case by case is as important as themass assistant other other qualified organizations are into refuge, countand large population movements, and things like that. So, for me, being agood sales person in my business is studying the story telling it to theright audience and keeping on telling it and reporting back. If, when we havethis reaction from the audience, whether I is so fat on social media,whether it's support in our and I now bank account or just general support injust support in general, I can give you one example is that you know manypeople support us by by giving us their talents and skills Probo. This is avery kind of support, so telling our story telling it to the right audience,telling it more and more so this audience can can understand andrecopying all this information into some form of an information part thatwe could deliver to all the audiences, including yours, for example. How bigis the problem? I think you mentioned you have a hundred and ten offices isit, but how many children, if you had every resource that you needed if youwere funded, so that you could help every single complex case that arose?How many are out there? What's the total you know in our world, we wouldcall it the total addressable market, how many children are impacted in thisway around the world every year, it's very difficult to quantify some. I justgive you a very good, very, very small example. One of our K, Lord, is allthese children that are born out of soogy. Well, they are bold. They haveno identity, so they could be subject...

...to international abduction so that itshould be subject to being kidnapped and sold on an open market for adoption,or something like that. Many of these things happen so, while are treatingcases in the hundreds today, we know for a fact that there are more than sixmillion children who were born out of sugars arrangin the last ten years.Just to give you an ID, I cannot really quantify. I can tell you every time weare able to extend our capacity to be able to engage with more cases to treatmore cases. We went off from twenty five years ago for about thirty thirtyfive thousand cited cases to about seventy sand. So this is a hundredpercent increase, but about fifteen percent increase in our resources, andwe still today need to differentiate between Veriori cases, urgent cases,important and not that important cases. Then I would turn down factors aboutthirty percent wow. So what give us a success story? John Tell us, you knowyou, obviously don't we don't need the personal, the names but tell us about arecent win, or just you know, and the best example that you have of is doingits job impeccably and helping a child in need. I mean you know this is notagain. I have hundreds of examples in my head and it's really a good question.I don't know where to start. I can talk about this child code who say who who,in the compan of the United States across from Mexico, to the UnitedStates with his family, he was separated from his DAB. He was keptwith his mom and one of the facilities motored out to be a drug addict orsomething like that. She could not care for him. The MOM was deported back toher country of origin, which was not Mexico. I think further self, so thechild was alone and the father was on...

...on them was separated and I, as sintervened in many forms- and this is one of our let's say value proposal- wedo not only connect people together, we collect authorities and otherorganization and state officials, and so on and so forth. All together forone case and the happy enemy of the story is that we were able to bringback the father, who is very much able to take care of for say with with hisson back together, Wonderful John, a if folks are listening, and you know toyour point right: they can. We can donate money, we can donate our timewhat's the best way to get involved so that we can provide supporterassistance. The good it's about again, if you are sitting in the United Statesand you feel like helping the organization on the international level,you go to the International Social Service website and you find not onlyus, but you can find through our pages by going just where you work all thosespagers we have in the world, they have their own website. They have their ownbottom, where you can well when you can just click and donate or life,including, I S. U A if folks are listening and they want to reach out toyou. Are you? Are you, okay, with personal outreach of so what's the best?What's the best medium to connect with you, it's my email. What is your emailgait is Jane Ayoub at ISS Dash, SSI door fororganization. Wonderful, John, thank you! So much for being our guest on theSales Hacker podcast today, we'll talk to you on Friday for Fridayfundamentals. Thank you. Some for holding me. Everybody, SAM's Corner, hope youenjoyed that conversation with an u the secretary general CEO Viss. I thinkthis issue now Joan specifically said: Hey. Let's not worry about the causesof migration, because we just need it...

...doesn't matter why a child is separatedfrom their parents. Why a child is in danger. Let's make sure we help them. Iagree with that, but also this is going to be more and more of an issue folksbecause of climate change. Climate change is probably the greatestcontributor to our collective global political socio economic insecurity.It's not just about the fact that it's terrifying, because it's extremely hotand people are going to die from the heat. People are going to move right.People are going to be living in places that can no longer support human beingsand they are going to need to move somewhere else, and it's going to bethe largest most significant shift in population centers in the history of orat least in the recent history. For for mankind, and it's going to happen veryquickly. It's not going to be the original HOMOCEA. You know coming outof Africa and or crossing the bearing straight and moving into Alaska. It'snot going to take place over thousands of years. It's going to take place overa few years, and so it's something that we really need to be mindful of it'ssomething that we need to have policies around, because immigration is onlygoing to increase and it's going to increase from people that are living inequatorial regions and tropical climates towards places that are cooler,so a lot's going to happen, and our countries need to be prepared for itand there's going to be a lot of unrest and there's going to be a lot of peoplein danger and we, as the human race, probably need to think about how weprotect those people and how we help those people. And that's why I assessis such an important organization, because people are being separated fromtheir families and children made their parents and children can be exploitedand children can be in danger and children are often defenseless. Sothat's why I think I assess is such an important organization for all of us toknow about, and as Jan mentioned on, the show, there's definitely things youcan do. First of all, it's actually a pretty small organization. They've gota hundred and ten offices, but they don't have a lot of money. They justdon't that's one of the reasons I brought him on the show so that we cangenerate a little bit more awareness,...

...but you don't have to just give moneyif you're a marketer out there, if you're a salesperson, if you'resomebody that wants to do more, that is looking for a way to give back to theworld one of the ways that you can do. That is volunteer your expertise right,because this is a as he said right. It's ninety seven years, they're goingto be celebrating their hundred year anniversary in two thousand and twentyfour, but there's a lot that they don't know how to do to be completely honestand they need help and they need help from folks like us. That know how tospread a message that know how to use social media effectively. That know howto run paid acquisition campaigns that know how to run sales campaigns and runsequences and get in touch with people. So there's a lot that can be done onbehalf of ISS. I encourage you to take a look at the at the organization and Iencourage you to email, Jan, if you've got a skill that you think could beuseful, Jean Dot Ayoub at Iss Dash Ssi dot work. So I just think it's animportant issue and I think, as I mentioned you know, climate change isgoing to impact us in a lot of different ways, which is why I'm sofocused on technology, hopefully to mitigate climate change. I'm not justyou know when I think about where I want to spend my time aside from thecompany that I run on inside from this wonderful podcast, I think about carboncapture, removing carbon from the atmosphere of price on carbon, and Istill do believe I do believe in the ingenuity of human kind. I do believethat we can. We can do something here. I don't believe that it's just staringyou know staring at the TV watching everything burst into flames andhuddling and fear. We are still the people and the race that went to themoon. We are still the people that invented or harnessed electricity. Weare still the people that created the Internet and created theiphone, and we are still the people that created Alexa and are building aito help us. So there's a lot that human kind can do, don't don't despair, butwe got to lean in and we got to do things. Part of what we might do ishelp children that are separated from their families and part of what wemight do is build technology, build big technology, gil, keep dombusingtechnology so that when the heat dome...

...settles over the West, we have thesebig mammoth, something or others that break it up or that introduce differentkinds of convection. I don't know, but I know that I know that we need bigideas, big expensive ideas to help us, and I think that they are out there andI believe in our ability to do this, because it's just math and science.It's not it's not a mystery. It's big global systems, that's true, but we'rea big global race. We can do this at any rate. That's my speech. Thank youfor coming to my Ted talk before we go, of course, if you're, not a part of thesales sacer community, yet you're missing out any sales professional canjoin to get asked questions, get immediate answers and share experiences,jumping and started discussion with more than twenty sand salesprofessionals at sales. Acero we've got three sponsors. We want to think thefirst is outre to learn how ourae outrage had to outwich that io forslash on outrage to see if they've got going on hey, do you want to get betterat your job? Do you want to find a mentor in a coach? Do you want to makesure that you take the next level and get promoted? Think about joiningPavilion Unlock your professional potential with a pavilion membershipleaders at every stage get started at joy, pavilion and finally Geworden?Don't you want to want to surf? Don't you want a in the paraglider? Don't youwant to have a four star, five star Michelin meal, and don't you want togive that to your employees as opposed to just giving them an Amazon Gift Card?Well, if you do check out blue board, because good board is the world'sleading experiential sales recognition platform get a conceese that maps outthe whole experience for you, it's really cool. It's amazing check themout at podcast up pepoon. If you want to reach me, you can email me salmonjoin pavillion com. It's all I've got for now. I've beentalking a lot I'll talk to you next time. Everybody t.

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