The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 4 months ago

175. Protecting Migrant Children: International Social Service w/ Jean Ayoub


In this episode of the Sales Hacker Podcast, we have Jean Ayoub, Secretary General and CEO at International Social Service (ISS), a nonprofit organization that specializes in complex cross-border case management to protect migrant children. Join us for a convicting conversation about some of the challenges facing workers who reunite children with families and how sales plays into their success.

What You’ll Learn

  1. What ISS is and the work it does
  2. Challenges that advocates for migrant children face
  3. How Jean came to work with nonprofits
  4. Fundraising, financing, sales skills, and advocacy awareness

Show Agenda and Timestamps

  1. About Jean Ayoub & ISS [4:50]
  2. Challenges facing advocates for migrant children [10:14]
  3. Jean’s love for nonprofits [13:28]
  4. Migratory patterns and causes for separation [15:48]
  5. How sales is present in nonprofits [19:45]
  6. Sam’s Corner [26:03] 

One, two, one, three, three, hey everybody, it's Sam Jacobs. Welcome to the SALESACER podcast. Today we've got a very special kind of guest, one that we reallyhaven't had before, and it's because we and I want to bring you voicesthat are not just exclusively from the world of startup sales, but voices fromaround the world, so that maybe we can introduce some different perspectives. Whilewe're still always focused, of course, on which the right Ad Sdr ratioand why great is the most important thing, blah, blah blah. There's alot of other things that are going on in the world. So thisweek's guest is John Aube Jean, is the secretary general and CEO of anorganization called ISSS, international social services. It's an incredible organization. It's anonprofit focused on assisting individual children when they are separated from their parents due tomigratory issues, meaning refugees, people that are fleeing a dangerous situation, they'refleeing an earthquake, they're fleeing a civil war and they are on their wayto a place that they hope is safer, and bad things happen when they're onthat journey. They get separated from their parents, they get thrown intocages, they they are adopted out illegally or inappropriately or unethically. So somany different bad things can happen to children when they are in the midst offleeing a bad situation in the hopes of pursuing a better life. And ISScomes in and advocates on specific individual children and I think they process over seventyzerodifferent cases every single year trying to reunite children with their parents and make surethat children find a safe place. And of course sales is part of that, because John is selling by virtue of storytelling and telling people about the organization. So there's of course the sales element, but it's also just an attempt toto bring some different perspectives to the show. Now, before we getto the interview, we've got a couple sponsors. The first is outreach.Outreach has been a longtime sponsor the podcast. They just launched a new way tolearn outreach on outreaches, the place to learn how outreach does outreach,learn how the team follows up with every...

...lead, learn how they run accountbased plays, manage reps and so much more, using their very own salesengagement platform. Had to outreach that io forward slash on outreach to see whatthey've got going on. We're also sponsored by pavilion. Pavilion is the keyto getting more out of your career. Our private membership connects you with anetwork of thousands of like minded peers and resources where you can tap into leadershipopportunities, training, mentorship and other services made for high growth leaders like you. Unlock your professional potential with a pavilion membership. Leaders at every stage canget started today at join Pavilioncom. And finally, Blue Board really cool companycash rewards feel a little bit like a slap in the face, don't they? That's why you got to check out blue board. Blue Board is theworld's leading experiential sales recognition platform that offers top reps their choice of hand curatedexperiences. From skydiving to court side tickets, Michelin starting to five star escapes,there's something for everybody. For President's Club, Blue Board offers individual buggetlist trips and luxury home goods, from Pelton bikes to swimming with whale,sharks and Cobbo. You'll go treats and Bali to chasing the northern lights.A couple really cool experiences that I'm looking at right now on Blueboard as Ithink about what experience I want to think about. One of them is bouldering, right, so learning to rock climb, which is super cool. That's anexperience. And then there's a there's this whole experience around learning to surf, which you know I'm a I can get up on like a longboard thatbasically is like a large paddleboard and I can go straight but I can't rideaway some one of the things I'm excited to interact with my Blueboard concierge aboutis this surfing experience, because there's some beaches and far rockaway in the NewYear New York area there's some there's some good waves in Montalk. This isdefinitely something that I think I'd be interested in. And they've got this concierservice that takes care of the whole thing for you. So trigger reps likethe Rock Stars they are, with a dedicated Bluebird conciergehual plan all of thelogistics and itinerary so they don't have to lift a finger. It's really atotally brand new way to to make your employees feel amazing. Check them outpodcast dot blue boardcom and get a free...

...demo. That's podcast up blue boardcom. Now, without further ado, lets listen to my interview with Jean I. Yoube okay, everybody, it's Sam Jacobs. Welcome to the salesacker podcast. Today on the show we've got Jean I. Youb Jean is. Well, let me read you as by Um. He's the secretary general and CEO ofISSS. So this is going to be a different kind of show thanwe normally have because we're talking to somebody that runs a nonprofit focused on savingchildren, which is pretty amazing. But let me read you his bio,with the beginning in the Red Cross as a volunteer and becoming operations director duringthe Lebanese civil war, Jean served field missions for the IFRC before relocating toGeneva to design and manage response to worldwide disasters. As USG and director ofoperations the turn of the century, Jean operated several years as a consultant,dealing mainly with turnarounds, Change Management and coaching. Since two thousand and nine, John has been the secretary general and CEO of Isss, leading the transformationof the organization ahead of its hundred anniversary in two thousand and twenty four.John has a deep understanding of the WORLDD's humanitarian social affairs. As a solidorganizational vision, is a strategic thinker committed to organizational change in the digital age. John's passionate about having a role to make our battered world a better placeto be, working to enable his organizations to assume a substantial role supporting childrenseparated from their families along migration routes through cross border case management and high leveladvocacy. John, welcome to the show. Hello Sam, hello everybody, andthank you for having me. We're excited to have you. So Iread. I read the Bio, but first of all we want to understand. I said I ss, but most people that are listening don't know whatis SS stands for or what it is. So what is I assess the organizationthat you run? That's pretty common. Actually. I never heard of bothices before joining IRSS. It isn't the nationalization. Today ninety seven yearsold and it's very specialized in case by case cross border case management in thesense if you are migrating from country a to country real it's a Mexico toUnited States and then you fall and trouble.

You don't have papers, you don'thave access to healthcare, education, you don't know your rights in thecountry of in your in the host country and things like that. This iswhy ISS USA, for example, comes into into the picture and trying tohelp you, as in my current on the migration roots, and try tocheck with you, with the authorities, what other actors, what is yourbest interest, because we did mainly with children, adolescents, it means lessthan eighteen years old, and then we do these these custom checks, wedo inquiries in your hometown whether going back would be in your best interest,and whenever we have a recommendation to do, we do that in usually authorities,courts, lawyers and sold and supporth. They follow their advice and we workmainly, again, let me stress on that, on the for thebest interest of the child. So this is what we do daily and onthe early basis. We have seventyzero cases of those all around the world.We have about hundred and twenty offices around the world and this is our corebusiness. One cold business to is, of course, advocacy, everything whichis linked to child protection on the migration route searching for the US adopted andthey want to learn who were their biological parents, born out of socogacy procedures, and they want to know who was the mother, and so on andso forth. This is what we do essentially, but, as I isa stand for international social service. Ninety seven years ago we were called theInternational Migration Service and since the S and there were was a UN agency createdcalled the International Organization for Migration, we changed our name to focus more onthe nature of our services. Some I think what's what's really important. It'sjust to go back ninety seven years ago, and probably a bit more. Thisentire organization was born to accompany all those people leaving Europe the Middle Eastand even even further in Asia. Wanted...

...all to go mainly to North America, to Ellis Islands and all these immigration sites we all know for United Statesand all for Canada, basically, and is ISS was born actually to accompanythese people. We wait for them on the sea shores in seaports and thenwe take them their their their names, we take their destination, we takewhat they can do and on the other side they's say Elis Island, wehave ISS social workers waiting to greet these people coming and try to or yenthe many of them did not speak English, many of them did not know wherethey go, and this is where our ISS people on the other sideof the Atlantic will t this is the ID. Actually was born like thatand since then it is the same. We help people on the migration would, but more will through, will time. We focus much more wrong children.Today. Seventy, seventy five percent of our case work is essentially childrenand families. So just for the audience to play it back. So thepoint here that we're talking to John is he runs an organization children are separatedfrom their families. We've all heard about it at the board of the UnitedStates over the past couple of years as more people have tried to migrate tothe United States and this organization, which is an incredible organization, helps childrenmanage this whole process, hopefully reconnecting them to their parents and other issues relatedto advocacy. What are the biggest challenges that you I mean there are somany challenges that you face, Shawn, but what are the biggest challenges thatyou face as you pursue this work of trying to advocate on behalf of migrantchildren. I think the other three levels of challenge. The first one issocio legal, because when you cross from one country to another country, obviouslylaws tend to change, culture and then to change. Sometimes language tends tochange and then we end up with people not understanding each other, and weneed to facilitate that process. The second challenge will be the authorities themselves,the receiving authorities, for example, how much their knowledgeable about their national laws, about refugees and as item, seekers...

...and minors should be put them inmy minimum security prisons should be set at them from their families, and soon though so forth. And the last, last but not least, not least, problem is funding of all that, because most of our cases that arenot attended to financially speaking, we are not into mass, mass assistancelike the other international and Joe's the right cross, the UN system and soon and so forth is as cannot pretend to be present in a camp helpingthreezero people, which makes our job and fundraising easier. What we can relateto is that, what we can communicate on and give information about is thatwe do, case by case case by case, one after the other,diligently tailoring individual solutions for personal problems, and this obviously is much more difficultto fundraise for then what I would call mass assistance. How do you pickwhich cases you take on if there's threezero people in a camp, as yousaid, and you're trying to help as many as possible? How do youselect who you help and who you don't help? Actually, we don't select. We are called upon for the most complic cases, for those cases whothe traditional actors, that traditional agencies do not find solutions for us. Sometimesin a refuge camp you have a lot of care givers, had a lotof good will workers, humanitarian workers, dealing with relief issues like, youknow, proposing shelter, proposing food, proposing some form of protection, waterand so on and so forth. But some of the needs within these refugeeor as island seeker populations and a refugee camp is not related to relief,is not related to first necessity, subsidiency, subsidience. It just it's related tomore, let's say, existenceive issues, like being reunited with a family upnorth or being remouted back to their country of origin and so on andso forth. And this kind of excellent expertise is not all the time embeddedwith the humanitarian workers and caregivers. So...

...this is we do not get toselect our cases. Fortunate your unfortunately, we are alerted upon by these organizations, by the camp managers, by the authorities when it comes to complex individualcases. I have many questions, but let's go through your bio. Iread your bio. A lot of acronyms in there. Again, for,you know, an audience of salespeople and marketing people working at, you know, startups, they may not know those acronyms. Tell us about how yougot you took on this position. Tell us about your background and how youcame to work in nonprofit specifically focused on children. Well, you know,I get to to be very fairful to food. To my history. Icame to work with nonprofits in the manitary organizations completely by chance. When Iwas about seventeen, I wanted to take my girlfriend to one of the Greekislands and have a good time. We were in a country, my countryof origin, lemon on. It wily, we were in the middle of acivil war. She said no, this is nonsense, we stay inthe country, and we had. We joined the red course as volunteers basically, and the deal was that we spend the summer helping out the red courseas volunteers during the war and then in September we would go and do ourvacation or something like that. So we went into three weeks later she wasfed up for and snipers and sharp nails and bombs and bombing and things thatactually wanted out. But actually I got the heck of it, I gotthe hang of it and I liked it very much and I stayed. ActuallyI liked it that much as I stayed thirty years with the red course,then the natural Red Cross. Then after that, you know, I wasdirective operations. I've designed the new disaster response system for the International Red Coursefor natural disasters, set up globally and it was up and running. AndI'm someone who needs the adrenal and I'm someone who needs to see change everyday for but because for me, change is the only constant thing is life. So I said to myself I'll leave my position and and I did thatfor obvious personal reasons as well. And...

...then I establish myself as a consultant, mainly in turn around and Organization Building and in coaching. This is whereI discovered that actually can, you can do a lot, you can geta lot of money as a consultant, sometimes doing the job of somebody elsedoesn't like was that qualified to do this job. But that's beside the point. But I discovered as well that I was bored. Like Helen, Iwanted back the act should in terms of not only doing the action myself,but doing the action with teams, with real people, with re scenarios,with really impact on the field. And International Social Service was one of mywould be a clients and to make a long story showing they asked me forwardproject to redesign, reformulate the organization and the turnaround managements tied and I thinkthey like my project, but they told me that I'm very expensive as aconsultant than they offered me to be the CEO. This is how I gothere. So you're cheaper as a CEO than as a consultant. Absolutely,I can confirm that. So well, I have a couple questions, justabout about the organization and also about the policies that you advocate for. Sofirst, we've seen a lot of migration due to political instability, you know, from Central America and in Latin America up through Mexico and into to theborder, at least in the United States. And then, of course there's alot of migration due to political unrest and at war and things like that, coming from Africa and different parts of the Middle East into Europe. Andthere's a lot of different perspectives on the acceptability of migration, what the immigrationlaw should be, and there's, you know, there's a pot there's sometimesa domestic quasi nationalist point of view that, you know, we need to letpeople need to keep the borders closed. There's a different perspective that countries needto let people in, especially when they're in times of crisis, andthere's rules and regulations and asylum laws around that. What's the ISASS is position, particularly because, as we look out at climate change, the reality thatthere will be much more mass migration from...

...very hot places to cooler places isonly going to increase and these issues that you are advocating on behalf of areonly going to become more prominent. So what policies do you think we shouldhave in mind as civilians, looking out at the world and looking at atmigratory patterns? I think as far as ISOS is concerned, I'll be veryfrank with you. We do give little detail of the nature of migration.There's migration. Their migration for many reasons, and you talked about them, fromcivil role, wars, internal staff, economic link, to environmental link,to change patterns in the weather, deforestation and so on and so forth. We don't really get into that, since we are in the case bycase but this and since we tend to inherit all the complex cases that otherorganization do not, do not find solution for, not because they don't wantto, it's because it's not their mandates. They are more more in mass,in mass assistance and so on and so forth. So we care alittle about the origin of the migration. As long as one person, onefamily, when tried finds her self for himself on the migration route, fallsinto trouble and needs ISS and it's mandate, we are there. We don't threethe differentiate between this type of migration and that type of migation. Andmy personal opinion and suggestions and that, as an individual, I think weneed to look at migration like that, not because it's a simpler way tofocus on the individual and not on the course. I mean I as longas child x and Y argives to United States. Many sense, it doesn'treally help whether he was persecuted in his hometown, whether he just went therebecause went to the nice stays, because he's seeking a better social life orbetter life in general, whether he was he was running away from floods,from earthquakes, for man made disaster and... on and so forth. Thereason is not really important. And I say that to be utter to understandit as an individual, because we all can find ourselves in a migrant anda migration situation. I myself and an economical migrant I was. I wasdirected operations of Libanese ret cost during the world the war. I think I'vedone a good job with my team and the World War was over, Ihad gained a specific expertise and war situations, search and rescue, reef and soon and so forth. So so I went off my went off mycountry as a migrant to other countries to benefit. So they can benefit frommy expertise and I can benefit from an entire international expatriate salary. We allcan become, for one reason all another migrant and the globalized world and thebest way to understand this, this situation is actually try to apply to ourselveson individual level. Interesting. Well, I guess one question, you know, is because it's a sale specific audience. Talk to us about how sales ispresent in what you do. It seems like part of one of yourbiggest jobs is is advocacy so that you can drive fundraising, so that youhave the money to deploy into the offices, so that you have the case workersthat can handle each individuals issues as you take them on. What goesinto fundraising? What goes into making sure that your financed appropriately so that youcan run the organization? Talk to us about the sales skills that you've developedover the years. The sales skill is one of the skills I'm using todayto talk to you, Sam, and I'm really grateful for this opportunity.Is the story telling today, the case workers, the social workers, arewhere the humanitarians were about couple of decades ago, coming of the days ago. I myself as a humanitarian. I would say I'm doing a good job. I'm off my family, I'm doing long hours, I'm under paid andover over worked and you know, stop asking me question and give me somesupport to be able to do my job.

But you know, in the globalizedworld, in the world was a more and more competition on the yourmonitarian side, on the social side, we need to be a little bitmore vocal, we need to be a little bit more open to extract thisinformation we hold, even if it's individual cases, relate that to the world, explain that what we do on a case by case is as important asthe mass assistant other other qualified organizations are in Inter refuge camps and large populationmovements and things like that. So for me, being a good sales personin my business is selling the story, telling it to the right audience andkeeping on telling it and reporting back if and when we have this reaction fromthe audience, whether it's support on social media, whether it's support in ourand our bank accounts, or just general support, just support in general.I can give you one example is that, you know, many people support usby by giving us their talents and skills, pro bone or this isa very kind of support. So telling our story, telling it to theright audience, telling it more and more so this audience can can understand andrecouping all of this information into some form of an information pack that we candeliver to all the audiences, including yours, for example. How big is thethe problem? I think you mentioned you have a hundred, ten offices, is it? But how many children, if you had every resource that youneeded, if you are funded so that you could help every single complexcase that arose? How many are out there? What's the total? Youknow, in our world we would call it the total addressable market. Howmany children are impacted in this way around the world every year? It's verydifficult to quantify some I'll just give you a very good, very very smallexample. One of our case load is all these children that are born outof surrogacy. When they are born,...

...they have no identities, so theycould be subject to international abduction, so they should be subject to being kidnappedand sold on an open market for adoption or something like that. Many ofthese things happen. So, while do I treating cases in the hundreds today, we know for a fact that there are more than six million children whowere born out to surrogacy arrangement in the last ten years. Just to giveyou an ID I cannot really quantify. I can tell you every time weare able to extend our capacity to be able to engage with more cases,to treat more cases. We went off from twenty five years ago, fromabout thirty thirty five thousand K two cases to about Seventyzero. So this isa hundred percent increase, but about fifteen percent increase in our resources. Andwe still today need to differentiate between very urgent cases, urgent cases, importantand not that important cases. Then now turn down factors about thirty percent now. So what give us a success story? John, tell us, you know, you obviously don't know. We don't need a personal the names,but tell us about a recent when or just you know, and the bestexample that you have of ISS doing its job impeccably and helping a child inneed. I mean, you know this is not again. I have hundredsof examples in my head and it's really a good question. I don't knowwhere to start. I can talk about this child, Code Jose, whowho, in the context of United Space States, across from Mexico to theUnited States with his family. He was separated from his dad. He waskept with his mom and one of the facilities. MOM thought out to bea drug addict or something like that. She could not care for him.The Mum was deported back to her country of origin, which was not Mexico, I think further south. So the child was alone and the father wasalone. There was separated and ISS intervened... many forms, and this isone of our, let's say, value proposal. We do not only connectpeople together, we connect authorities and other organization and state officials and so onand so forth all together for one case, and they had the ending of thestories that we were able to bring back the father, who is verymuch able to take care, of course, say, with with his son,back together. Wonderful, Johnny. If folks are listening, and youknow, to your point right, they can't. We can donate money,we can donate our time. What's the best way to get involved so thatwe can provide supporter or assistance? Again, it's about get if you are sittingin the United States and you feel like helping the organization on the internationallevel, you go to the International Social Service website and you find not onlyus, but you can find, through our pages, by going just whereyou work, all those partners we have in the world. They have theirown websites, they have their own botton where you can when you can justclick and donate online, including is Susa. If folks are listening and they wantto reach out to you, are you are you okay with personal outreach? If so, what's the best what's the best medium to connect with you? It's my email. What is your email? Tell us it is Jeandon't are you a YO UV at ISS SSI DOT ORG for organization. Wonderful, Jean. Thank you so much for being our guest on the salesacker podcasttoday. We'll talk to you on Friday for Friday fundamentals. Thank you,Sam for helping me. Everybody Sam's corner. Hope you enjoyed that conversation with Shawn. I you of the Secretary General, CEO of Viss. I think thisissue now. Jean specifically said, Hey, let's not worry about thecauses of migration, because we just need... Doesn't matter why a childis separated from their parents, why a child is in danger, let's makesure we help them. I agree with that. But also this is goingto be more and more of an issue, folks, because of climate change.Climate change is probably the greatest contributor to our collective global, political,socioeconomic insecurity. It's not just about the fact that it's terrifying because it's extremelyhot and people are going to die from the heat. People are going tomove right people are going to be living in places that can no longer supporthuman beings and they are going to need to move somewhere else, and it'sgoing to be the largest, most significant shift in population centers in the historyof or at least in the recent history for for mankind, and it's goingto happen very quickly. It's not going to be the original Homo Sapiens,you know, coming out of Africa and or crossing the bearing straight and movinginto Alaska. It's not going to take place over thousands of years. It'sgoing to take place over a few years, and so it's something that we reallyneed to be mindful of. It's something that we need to have policiesaround, because immigration is only going to increase and it's going to increase frompeople that are living at equatorial regions and tropical climates towards places that are cooler. So a lot's going to happen and our countries need to be prepared forit and there's going to be a lot of unrest and there's going to bea lot of people in danger and we as the human race, probably needto think about how we protect those people and how we help those people,and that's why is is such an important organization, because people are being separatedfrom their families and children need their parents and children can be exploited and childrencan be in danger and children are often defenseless. So that's why I thinkis is such an important organization for all of us to know about and,as John mentioned on the show, there's definitely things you can do. Firstof all, it's actually a pretty small organization. They've got a hundred tenoffices, but they don't have a lot of money. They just don't.That's one of the reasons I brought him on the show so that we cangenerate a little bit more awareness. But... don't have to just give money. If you're a marketer out there, if you're a salesperson, if you'resomebody that wants to do more, that is looking for a way to giveback to the world, one of the ways that you can do that isvolunteer your expertise. Right, because this is a as he said right,it's ninety seven years. They're going to be celebrating their hundred year anniversary intwo thousand and twenty four. But there's a lot that they don't know howto do, to be completely honest, and they need help and they needhelp from folks like us that know how to spread a message, that knowhow to use social media effectively, that know how to run paid acquisition campaigns, that know how to run sales campaigns and run sequences and get in touchwith people. So there's a lot that can be done. On behalf ofISS I encourage you to take a look at the at the organization and andI encourage you to email John if you've got a skill that you think couldbe useful, Jean Dotub at ISS SS SI DOT Org. So I justthink it's an important issue and I think, as I mentioned, you know,climate change is going to impact us in a lot of different ways,which is why I'm so focused on technology, hopefully to mitigate climate change. I'mnot just you know, when I think about where I want to spendmy time, aside from the company that I run on inside from this wonderfulpodcast, I think about carbon capture, removing carbon from the atmosphere, ofprice on carbon, and I still do believe. I do believe in theingenuity of humankind. I do believe that we can we can do something here. I don't believe that it's just staring, you know, staring at the TV, watching everything burst into flames and huddling and fear. We are stillthe people and the race that went to the moon. We are still thepeople that invented or harnessed electricity, we are still the people that created theInternet and created the iphone, and we are still the people that created Alexaand are building ai to help us. So there's a lot that humankind cando. Don't don't despair, but we got to lean in and we gotto do things. Part of what we might do as help children that areseparated from their families, and part of what we might do is build technology, build big technology, build heat dome busting technology so that when the heatdome settles over the West, we have...

...these big mammoth something or others thatbreak it up or that introduce different kinds of convection. I don't know,but I know that. I know that we need big ideas, big expensiveideas, to help us, and I think that they are out there andI believe in our ability to do this because it's just math and science.It's it's not. It's not a mystery. It's big global systems, that's true, but we're a big global race. We can do this. At anyrate, that's my speech. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk. Before we go, of course, if you're not a part of thesales saccer community yet, you're missing out. Any sales professional can join to getask questions, get immediate answers and share experiences. Jump in and starta discussion with more than Twentyzero sales professionals at salesaccercom. We've got three sponsorswe want to thank. The first is outreach. Learn how outreach does outreachhad to outreach that io for slash on outreach to see what they've got goingon. Hey, do you want to get better at your job? Youwant to find a mentor in a coach? Do you want to make sure thatyou take the next level and get promoted? Think about joining pavilion.Unlock your professional potential with a pavilion membership. Leaders at every stage get started atjoin Pavilioncom and finally, Blue Board. Don't you want to learn to serve? Don't you want to learn to paraglide. Don't you want to havea four star, five star Michelin meal, and don't you want to give thatto your employees, as opposed to just giving them an Amazon Gift Card? Well, if you do, check out Blueboard, because blue board isthe world's leading experiential sales recognition platform. You get a conciers that maps outthe whole experience for you. It's really cool. It's amazing. Check themout at podcast up, blueboardcom. If you want to reach me, youcan email me Sam at join Pavilioncom. It's all I've got for now.I've been talking a lot. I'll talk to you next time. Everybody,.

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