The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 2 months ago

Return to Work: Offering the Maximum Flexible Option

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode of the Sales Hacker Podcast, we have Gianna Scorsone, GM/Head of North America at Aircall, where she lives out her dream to scale the channel program and to empower diverse employees and leaders. Join us for a rich conversation about answering to your employees and hearing their need for flexible return-to-work options.

What You’ll Learn

  1. Servant leadership means listening to your people
  2. Culture changes with every person who joins the team
  3. How to provide compete return-to-work flexibility
  4. Revising policies to support mental health

Show Agenda and Timestamps

  1. About Gianna Scorsone & Aircall [2:00]
  2. Gianna’s origin story in sales [4:50]
  3. How Aircall tackles the return to work [11:15]
  4. Supporting mental health with flexible policies [16:40]
  5. Building a culture that drives business outcomes [20:30]
  6. Paying it forward [24:20]
  7. Sam’s Corner [27:30]

One, two, one, three, three, hey everybody, it's Sam Jacobs. Welcome to the SALESACER podcast. Today in the show we've got John as COURSERNA. She is the generalmanager and the head of North America for air call. Air Call is oneof the fastest growing companies out there. They are a cloud based phone system. We use them here at pavilion and it's a great conversation about building culture, about returning to work and how to think about doing it, and aircalls done it in a really thoughtful way, and also just on her background andwhy retail sales can be an excellent, incredible launching ground for sales leaders likeJohn. So it's a good conversation. Before we get there we want tothank our sponsors. We've got three for the show. The first isoutreach. Outreach, as we know, has been a long time sponsor thePODCASTS. They are excited to announce their new annual series, the unleash summitseries. It's back this year. Scene is the rise of revenue. Innovators. Join the new cohort of leaders who put buyers at the center of theirsale strategies to drive a fishing, predictable growth across the entire revenue cycle.Get more details and save your spot at summit, dot outreach, DOT ioh. We're also brought to you by pavilion. Pavilion is the key to getting moreout of your career. Our private membership gives you access to thousands oflike minded peers, dozens of courses in schools through Pavilion University and over Onezerowork books, templates, scripts and playbooks to accelerate your development. Pavilion membersget hired more quickly, are paid more and get promoted more rapidly than theirpeers. Unlocked the career of your dreams by applying today at Joint Pavilioncom andfinally, Congo. As doing business becomes increasingly complex, it gets harder todo it well. Businesses often sacrifice agility and lose sight of the customer experience. Congo's expertise and comprehensive solution suite for commercial operations, transforming the documents andprocesses surrounding customer engagement, CEPQ and CLM help businesses meet customer needs while increasingagility to adapt to change. Check them out at CONGOCOM. Forward slash salessoccer. Now let's listen to my conversation with Jiana Scorson A. Hey everybody, it's Sam Jacobs. Welcome to the...

...sales hacker podcast. Today on theshow we're excited to have JONA scorsone. Johnna is the general manager and headof North America at Air Call. She works to empower employees while overseeing departmentsthat cover the customer journey spectrum, from Lee generation to partnerships and integrations.In less than a year than John has been at air call, she scaledthe company's channel program built relationships with current and potential channel partners, made anumber of key hires, including a VP of channel sales, and has grownthe leadership team from within for a six female and people of Color Promotions,which is amazing. She's also sponsor of air calls Lgbtqi plus, Arg Queercall. Johnna, welcome to the show. Thanks so much, Sam. We'reexcited to have you. So the first thing we like to do isyour what we call your baseball card, which is just a quick summary ofyou, but also the company. So My company, Pavilion, is acustomer of air all. Many people are, but there are few folks out therethat don't know who or what are called does so in your works.Tell us what is their call do? Air Call is a cell phone system, fully cloud based, specifically for the seacast space, meaning you know anyonewho's really customer facing who would like to have insight cards and visibility and passconversations and all of those great things to deliver great customer service utilizes and benefitsfrom air call. Amazing. And how and so I think I read it, but how long have you been at the company? I have been atthe company for one year and one week. Oh amazing. Congratulations on your oneyear anniversary. Thank you very much. It's been epic, sounds like it, if I'm not mistaken. Their calls sort of like on an IPOpath. So so pretty exciting. So and your title is GM head ofNorth America, but just give us you know, formally, what are yourresponsibilities? Just you know, so we understand the scope. I read alittle bit about it, but would love to hear in your words. Yeah, absolutely. So it's really following the customer journey from acquisition all the waythrough, you know, keeping them happy. That means that it's the lead Genand Divan Gen teams, your traditional...

Sdr Bedr's, and then your youknow, more indirect routes, where we have the IDC team. That's theit distribution channel that traditionally called master agents. I'm also in charge of the partnershipsteam, which aligns with our core integration partners as well as direct channel. That's the you know, partners within the integration ecosystem, and then theas, so the closers, and then, of course, all the way throughsetting up our customers for success, the onboarding team and the customer successteam, who are revenue driving as well, and so they are not only incharge of making sure that our customers have the best experience and that translatesto attention, but also through expansion with crossel and up cell. Amazing.So let's let's learn a little bit about your background. How did you what'syour origin story? How did you obviously the end of it. We wantto know how you discovered are called. But what's your background? How didyou get into sales and kind of revenue management and and where did you developyour expertise? Absolutely so let's start way, way back. My first sales rolewas when I was probably six years old. My brother, sister andI had a metal soldering kit. Now I know one probably shouldn't have thatat the age of six, but it was the s in New York City. That was fine. And we used to we used to melt the safestthing you can use, super safe. Say I'm super safe. I neverhurt myself. I'll tell you that we used to melt coins into little sculptures, Little Trinkets, and we hacked some space at the Second Avenue Street Fairthat year and we tried to sell our trinkets and my brother and sister gaveup after a few minutes probably, but I was determined to sell a piece. We probably overcharged for about five bucks a pop, and in the slet me tell you, that was big money. But I ended up sellingone. I stuck with it. I really worked on this one. Engagedcustomer and I got her to throw it...

...down and I'll never forget that thrill. That was my first sale and I was absolutely hooked. My dream atthat age was to be a hot dog lady vendor. That's on my linkedin. Feel free to read that story. But I always had, you know, my mind set on sales and building an empire, so to speak.Out of college I was a marketing major and I went into retail sales andto answer your question of you know really what taught me and prepared me tobe where I am today, I have to say it was the fundamentals ofworking a flagship store on Fifth Avenue. I was the manager on duty whenthe doors were open and that meant that I it was express, okay,limited brand, Yep, sold clothing and they were quite big at that timeand I loved it. I loved every minute of being on the floor,the energy, the buzz. It was really exciting to learn how to,you know, speak to every customer at once, because time doesn't permit,you know, speaking to every single person, but you had to do it ina way that felt really personalized and and so you lat learn the techniquesof using your voice, using enthusiasm, understanding, how to, you know, upsel in a way that made it feel very personal, but at scale. And I'd say that, you know, that absolutely translates into, you know, leading an SDR or BEDR team. Right, how do you do coldcalling? Personalized but at scale. You know, what was also fundamentallygroundbreaking for me in terms of learning skill was all of my employees were collegekids who weren't incentivized to sell. They weren't making commission, they were makingan hourly, you know, minimum right wage, and I had to learnhow to tap into their intrinsic motivation, how to communicate a common goal sothat they could really understand the importance of...

...their contribution, the value they broughtto the table to reach that common goal. And that, of course, ishow you motivate a sales team. It goes beyond just the dollars,but really learning and growing and helping them understand the responsibility they have to thepeople around them as well, because having one top erformer doesn't get you thescale that you need. How did you transition from express through to into softwaresales or where there? I'm sure there might be additional steps in between.Yeah, there are a couple steps in between. Ultimately, I decided totake a year often and I grabbed a backpack and I traveled the world fora year and upon return, I just sent my resume out to every singleperson I knew and you know, my resume landed in the hands of agentleman named Michael Curvin, who's a mentor till this day, and he wasone of the Co founders of Blue Wolf. Blue Wolf was a saw sales forceconsulting firm, the premier partner that sales force ever had, and wealso had an it staffing division within Blue Wolf as well. We did incrediblywell, fast growth year over year and we really had two business lines withinthe one and we offshoot the IT staffing arm to name it Mondo and addeddigital marketing staff and to it as well, and we brought both of those companiesto transaction and I stayed on through acquisition of Mondo for a few monthsand decided that I really like the start up and build up mood and soI left. Took a year off and I started consulting by started coaching andI thought it was, you know, time and I had the privilege tobe able to do that at that point and I was set to have alittle bit of a more relaxed life. And then I got a call froma recruiter about air call and here I am amazing. What's been the biggestsurprise about this opportunity? The biggest surprise? You know, that's a fantastic question. You know, I did my due diligence and I did research arecall and I loved, loved loved what...

I saw right managing sales teams beforeyou know, this tool made so much sense. The biggest surprise for me, though, was, yes, it's a phone system. We're actually notjust a SASS product, but we're also in the telecom space. So thatlearning curve was one that I didn't quite anticipate, and so yeah, Iwould say that was the shock. What are the complexities associated with being inthe telecom space, just dealing with these archaic or or old legacy providers thingslike that? Yeah, sure, there's, you know, of course, thelegacy providers, but there's also just the nuances of being in the telecomspace, the compliance issues that go around with it that are very specific tothe telecom space. I think that some of the channels that traditionally sell indirectchannels at that telecom cells through our more used to do those legacy systems,and so there's a lot of education involved around a system like ours where forme, coming from the ASS space, it was like yeah, this isn'tno brainer, and so that that was really interesting for me as well.And then really just learning kind of the history and the evolution of telecom amazing. Well, one of the things we wanted to talk about today was justit's in the headlines a lot and certainly a lot of people are talking aboutthis concept of return to work. And what's that and and, like youknow, are we going to be in the office? Are we going towork from home? Is there going to be a hybrid environment? And thenhow do you manage teams? How do you ensure that, as you navigatethis complex hybrid environment, that people feel included, they feel productive, theyunderstand what's happening in the company? So what's your what's your approach? BecauseI know that it's a and certainly I'm sure are call plays a role becauseyou're a saw phone system, a cloudbased phone system, so you enable peoplethat are remote teams to access, you know, one single platform so thatthey can talk to their customers. But how are you approaching, you know, the concept of returning to the office is are call returning to the office? How do what are the policies that you all are developing to make surethat the company feels cohesive even when you're...

...flung all the way around the world? Yeah, that's a great question, Sam and, and couldn't agree morethat it's so relevant today and you know, I say this a lot and andyou're right. You know, are call is there to support organizations grapplewith this. You know, new era of workforce. You not only haveto be flexible in terms of being able to be hybrid, but you haveto be hybrid in office and fully remote all at the same time, becauseit's very rare for an organization to be solely one of those things and,as you mentioned, that's where are call can really support being all of thoseat once, and that's what we've experienced here with our own internal team.You know, one thing that I think that you miss that I'd like tobring up is not only, you know, how do you make people feel includedand drive the productivity while you have some being remote, some being anoffice, but there's also how do you make people feel safe and how doyou care for mental wellness all in the process, because things are changing sorapidly. Conditions are changing, statistics around covid are changing. It's something thatneeds to be top of mine all of the time. What was comfortable forsomeone yesterday may not be comfortable for them today, and so it's really askingthose questions, it's checking in with people and it's you know, sending outfrequent surveys to make sure that everyone continues to feel safe. Additionally, it'smaking sure people understand that they can change their mind right now. Now.In order to do that and be successful and continue the productivity that you mentioned, it's really important for people to have routine. So what we've done hereat air call we have reopened our New York City office, so I'll speakfor North America. We've required vaccines for the office and people don't wear maskshere, though if they travel, people are frequently getting covid tests to makesure that you know, we're frequently re checking in despite vaccines, to makesure, you know, breakthrough cases don't spill over. We found that thishas been really successful for us, for...

...people to be very comfortable here,and it's amazing. Today the floor is packed, the energy is buzzing andyou could absolutely see people thriving. Now. That said, we've decided to bea hybrid model, so people have the option of working three days aweek in office two days a week from home. And the reason why we'vedone that and had a set schedule. We're all in the office on Monday's, Thursdays and Fridays, is because we want to breed that collaboration that beingin office provides. Additionally, it also talks about that routine that I mentionedright it's knowing your exact schedule so that on Tuesdays and Wednesday's you're mentally preparedand you know your set up for success because you know that you're going tobe at home. This avoids the situations where, like, I'm running alittle bit later, oh I'm press news a couple more times, maybe I'lljust stay at home. That ambiguity can be counter productive and it can behard for others to know your schedule as well. So I think that that'show we've really been able to tackle this hybrid model here in the New YorkCity office. Now, in terms of remote, we make sure that youknow everything we offer to in house folk. Remote folk also get as well.We also made sure that everyone feels comfortable to be fully remote if theywant to. And lastly, and this is such a great tip, whendoing zoom meetings and you have half, you know, the zoom participants,let's say, or the meeting participants in the office, and the half ourremote, we have everyone open their computer and join zoom so that everyone hasa thumbnail picture to make sure that it's not just one image with these tinyheads that you can't really see and you can't really hear, and that levelsthe playing field for those that are out of office as well. I lovethat. When you talked about well, first question for you. So whatabout folks that, because you know these requirements and sort of the evolution ofthe science or even learning new things about the vaccines, you know by theday whether there ap proof for young people what some of the side effects are. So let's say you have some folks that say, you know what,I don't want to be vaccinated. How...

...is it all approaching now? Oh, yeah, we have. We have a lot of great employees who havedecided that the vaccines not for them and that's not for me to decide.They have their fully remote option and they are fully remote. You know,we're doing an off site next week that's in person. We're also going toget those same training facilitators to do a remote version so that people don't missout because, as you mentioned, we need to make sure that we're beinginclusive and allow people to feel very comfortable with their personal choice. Yeah,it's fair. It's difficult. It is difficult, so tricky, so tricky, it's I don't think there's a straightforward, simple answer, as much as Iwant there to be. I know, I know you mentioned mental health.You know what are. How are you approaching are you modifying your sicklypolicies or your vacation policies for people that are that are discussing or having mentalhealth issues, or is it just being more mindful and checking in with people? How are you approaching that? It's both both of those things. Youknow, we did some management training. HR did a phenomenal job of,you know, getting our managers together and really putting emphasis around this, teachingand guiding them how to check in with their employees at type of questions ask, you know, the behaviors or the body language to look out for.And then it's really encouraging people when you see them, you know, sickbecause of fatigue or or when you feel that they're a little bit drained ornot doing, you know, the best that they can because of what they'reexperiencing externally, we encourage them to take some time off. I did thisactually with one of my directors. I noticed that she, which is wearingfin and and I forced her to take a week off. I forced myselfto take a week off last week as well, and I look. Youknow, it gets the best of all of us right now, and soit's important that we lead by example as well. What we've also done ishr is, you know, really tracking, because we have an open vacation policy. What that sometimes turns into is people don't take vacation or fuel,you know, this pressure not to, and I couldn't disagree with that more. I'm a huge advocate of making sure...

...that people take the time because ofmental wellness, because of that release that everyone needs, and so we dotrack how much time people take vacation, not because we don't want them totake it, but to make sure that they are taking it. What isyour perspective? I'm just, you know, genuinely curious on do you give thereare times of the year, for example, if your salesperson and you'reon a quarterly quota. I don't know if the sales people at our calleron monthly or quarterly, but let's say you haven't made a sale or youryou're tracking to below quota and you want to take a vacation. The lasttwo weeks of the quarter when it and it be comes clear that you're goingto miss the number. That's sort of one scenario and then the other scenariomight be, you know, just like hey, October's a super busy time. Do you give guidance? Do you feel or does the organization feel?But I'm curious about you personally. Do you feel selfconscious providing any kind ofpushback or feedback at all when somebody says, Hey, I want to take aweek off and you know you have their dashboard up in front, let'ssay when Tom Yeah, I would say what I'm at my best, Idon't, and what I'm out yours, I do. You know, Ithink that there are two different scenarios here right that with the first scenario thatyou gave of you know, they're not hitting quota. They want to take, you know, the rest of the month off. What I would probablydo is, you know, guide their leader to have the conversation of,you know, do you want success? What is success mean to you?You know, how do you feel this will translate to your overall success hereand building your career, because I think that's more of a choice of ishe's taking vacation going to help you or is it going to hurt you?Right, and that's very personal and probably very scenario based, because in onestance it actually might really help someone. Maybe they were feeling fatigued and burntout and that's why they weren't performing well and and this will actually allow themto come back, you know, guns a blazing and a crush quote ofthe next month, right. Or you know, maybe they're just a bottomperformer and don't care, and then that's really a story of whether or notyou know they should be on the team...

...or not. The second scenario thatyou mentioned was, you know, a peak season or or two weeks beforethe courter ends. Yes, I do give guidance around that. I think. You know, on top of not just you know peak time or youknow shortened months like December, I think there's also making sure that we haveenough coverage. So it's looking to see how many other people are on vacationat that same time. Distribution is really important as well. Makes Perfect senseto me. You know, the we've got a little bit of time leftand I just do want to touch on because it's it's I know that youhave a lot of great ideas and opinions. When you think about building a greatteam and you think about creating great culture, which I know is reallyimportant to you, give us some some lessons or tips or strategies or yourphilosophy on how does somebody go about building a great team and ensuring that there'sa fantastic culture that is positive, enthusiastic, passion at that drives towards the businessoutcomes, to business needs? What's your what are your what are yourlessons? Oh Man, I could talk about this all day long. Okay, I think it starts first with hiring. You've got a higher great people,Super Important, you know, even if you think they might be toosenior in a startup environment, you're going to need them very soon. Sohigher great people who have intrinsic motivation, who are team players. And sowhat I say in every single interview, Sam and I hope I concurse here, but I tell every single person I interview I have a no ego andno asshole policy on my team. I just won't stand for it. It, you know, is distracting and it does not breed hypergrowth because they're onlyin it for themselves and that is actually quite stunting to the business. Andso, while you know, we love top performers, while we love overachievers, if they have an ego or if they're an Asshole, I don't wantthem because they're going to hurt everyone around them and they're going to hurt theculture. I think that it's also really important to think about process and cultureright. How do you build both? And it's really about empowering your teamto do so. And if you really...

...think about, you know, youroverall population within the organization, you really want to think about how much diversityyou have and how many levels you have. Building the process and building the culture, that's where you're going to get the best amount of value. Andso, you know, I think from a leadership perspective, what I'm responsiblefor is making sure that we uphold our company values. What the people shouldbe really driving is the culture and it's understanding that culture is iterative. Itrepresents the population that you have at the time and it should always evolve asa result of it. And leadership is there to really make sure, asI mentioned, the values stay intact. And so part of the values andpart of my philosophy is making sure that I'm a and I know this isreally Cliche, but I'm a people firstly leader number second, because how Itreat my employees, how I treat our team, that's how they'll treat thecustomers right and so it's really important to understand and recognize that, because that'show we're going to yield the most growth together. And so it's really understandingthat my role as a leader is not to report into the CEO, notto report into, you know, the board. I tell my CEO thisall the time. You're not my boss. My team is my boss. Myrole is to help them learn and grow and show them how they contributeand value what they bring to the table so that they want to continue todo that and do it more efficiently, more effectively and folding in those greathires that I spoke of to do the same. Each class should be betterand better than the next and will all grow together that way. That's howyou build a really strong culture. And so you know, when I thinkabout what I'm graded on right, what my metrics should be? Of course, yes, revenue right. That that's ultimately the make or break for me. That's from the board perspective, the...

CEO Perspective, but what I grademyself on is how many internal promotions have I facilitated? What is our retentionlook like? What's our engagement rate like? That's how you build culture. Thoseare fantastic ideas and fantastic insights. We're almost at the end of ourtime together and one of the things that we like to do is sort ofpay it forward. Where we hear about people, ideas, books, whoeveryour key influences are, or key ideas, wherever you think that we should looknext? If we're trying to follow the bread crumb trail of John Oscor Sorney, which how should we do that? Will you say my name? It's say it's so well practiced. So what comes to mind? Youknow, who do you think we should know about? What great boss is, great mentors, great books? You know, what do you think weshould know? You know, that's such a beautiful question and I wish Icould quite honestly gave it more thought. You know, quick quick thing aboutme, as I actually have learning disability and so sometimes, being on thespot, I'm not at my best and I often forget the books that Iread, which is really strange and really crazy. But I've learned techniques aroundit. But anyhow, so, with that in behind and thinking on myfeet here, you know, I would say actually Eric Beveridge, who isthe other co founder of Blue Wolf. He's now an EVP over it salesforce. You know, he's got a great, you know, customer obsessedpodcast as well. I really learn from him how to really focus it onvision, how to disseminate vision, to motivate a team and he built asales force practice like I've never seen before. It was groundbreaking and really put salesforce consulting on the map. And and he, you know, continuedto innovate and empower the leaders around him to really kind of create the moldof what a consulting firm should look like in the agile world. And nowhe's very much focused around how Blue Wolf...

...was successful through this concept of customerobsession that, you know, we have Blue Wolf adopted very, very earlyon. And I remember Blue Wolf and you're right that it was one ofthe early and great sales for stilly. I mean it's probably much broader thanthat, much broader than now. Yeah, that's right. That's what another IBM. Yes, I remember always, you know, when we needed helpon sales for us. We blew wolf was the first name that we thoughtof. So Nice. You probably work with someone colleagues. That's awesome.Yeah, John, if folks are listening and they want to reach out,maybe they want to connect, maybe they're inspired by what you said and wantto work for air call. What's the best way to get in touch withyou? I love that. Please reach out on Linkedin. I I checkit often and we are absolutely hiring for some amazing, amazing rolls across theboard, marketing, sales partnerships and we would love to have really strong andgreat talent. We're growing at rapid speed. Thank you for not saying exponentially usethat phrases aren't quite first exponents, but fantastic and and thank you somuch for being our guest on the show this week and we're going to talkto you on Friday for Friday fundamentals. Looking forward to it, Sam.Thanks so much. Thank you. Hey, everybody, Sam Jacobs. Welcome tothe sales soccer podcast and to SAM's corner. What a great conversation withJonas Cossornay. I think, you know, a lot of it stood out,but one of the important things is just the emphasis in the focus onyou know, she said something which is actually quite controversial and you know PatrickLencioni, who wrote the five dysfunctions of a team, might disagree, butshe said that her first team, her boss, is the people that sheworks for, that work for her, you know, her her teammates,but really the people that report to her. They are her boss more than theCEO. Patrick Lenconi would say, you know, your first allegiance shouldbe to the people, your peers at...

...the same reporting level. But Jannadisagrees and says, you know what, to be a true servant later sheneeds to work for the people that work for her, and that means listeningto them, figuring out what they need, what they want and making modifications andchanging. The other things she said which was really interesting, was that, you know, culture is is the collected actions and beliefs of the peoplethat work for you today. It is not what it used to be yesterdayor ten days ago or a year ago or five years ago. It's alwaysevolving and changing based on the New People, on the people that work with youat that moment, which which is challenging actually, because you're constantly findinga new dynamic and a particularly new dynamic, given everything that's happening around return towork. An air call. Has Been Really thoughtful about how they've doneit. So, as she mentioned, just if you're taking notes and wantto think about a way that you might return to the office, first,complete flexibility. Right. They surveyed the team first and they said what doyou want? The team said, well, we want to make sure that wedon't have to wear masks if we're vaccinated, we want to make surethat other people in the office are also vaccinated and Hey, if I'm notvaccinated, I want to make sure that I still have an option. Andso they created this structure where they're in the office Monday's, Thursdays and Fridaysand they are not. So instead of everybody getting to pick and shoes whichday they come to the office, as they listen, if you're going tocome to the office, you're going to come on these three days, Monday, Thursday and Friday, probably say they can kick off and in the weektogether as a team, and the Tuesdays and Wednesdays, if you want towork from home, you can do it. Then if you're not vaccinated and youdon't want to come into work, that's your right and you can workcompletely remotely and as a consequence of that, when we have meetings, everybody's goingto dial into zoom, even if we're in person. I will assumethat they mute themselves and do some things so that there's not, you know, all that feedback, which can be horrible to listen to. But thepoint is that you're there are strategies for inclusivity, strategies to make sure thatpeople feel included, even if they choose not to get a vaccine, orif they do get a vaccine and they want to feel safe, because youwant to go into work and know that if you're sitting next to somebody elseand everybody's breathing loudly as you're on the phone, that you know the riskof a breakthrough infection through the vaccine is lower. So it's a new worldthat we live in and everybody's tackling it...

...differently, but are call has beenpretty creative and resourceful, I think, and it's it's about it's about beingflexible. It's about saying what are the things that we can do to makepeople that are not here feel included in the people that are here. Philalso okay, and how do we build a workforce in a work environment forthe modern day that sort of incorporates everything we've learned from covid at the sametime takes us forward in a new direction. And I don't think there's one easyanswer, but I think I think a lot of companies are challenging aretackling this challenge with innovation, and that's one of the things that are callsdoing so great conversation. Thanks, Jonnifer. Coming on. If you are notpart of the Sales Haacker community yet, you're missing out. Any sales professionalcan join, jump in and start a discussion with more than seventeenzero professionalsat salesaccercom. Of course, we also want to thank our sponsors. Outreach, this year's only summit series is back and the rise of the revenue innovatorsis the theme. So go to summit DOT outreach dot ioted to learn more. You haven't taken a class through Pavilion University, you are missing out.Pavilion members get hired more quickly, promoted more quickly and up train and upupscale their skills more effectively. So take a look at join Pavilioncom so thatyou can take your career to the next level. And finally, Conga.Conga helps businesses meet customer needs while increasing agility to adapt to change. Checkthem out at Conga DOTCOM. Forward salesacer. If you want to reach out tome, you can linkedincom forward slash the word in forward, Sam fJacobs. Otherwise you can email me, Sam at joint PAVILIONCOM. Talk toyou next time.

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